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Re: Boys 2017 Fall 2011/Spring 2012
Anonymous #10601 04/10/12 01:16 PM
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I don't understand why you would want a 7th grader playing JV level lacrosse. JUst the size difference alone. Many 7th grader would be giving up alot in height and weight. Not only that, I find it hard to beleive that most 7th Graders would pass the puberty test (tanner test) to compete anyway

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Re: Boys 2017 Fall 2011/Spring 2012
Anonymous #10602 04/10/12 02:34 PM
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When an 'experienced' youth player is confronted with a choice between playing on a 7/8th grade modified team with no cuts (anyone may participate, even those who have never played before), and being undersized but playing and practicing with a JV team whose members can consistently catch and throw, it can be a difficult decision. What is an experienced player going to get out of practicing with kids who have never played before? In any case, we felt it was more important for him to be with his classmates, help his friends develop as players and contribute to growing interest in our town and school's lax program by staying in the modified program with his immediate peers. He will play on a good team this summer.

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Re: Boys 2017 Fall 2011/Spring 2012
Anonymous #10626 04/10/12 10:34 PM
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Good on you, your town is Lucky to have you

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Re: Boys 2017 Fall 2011/Spring 2012
Anonymous #10634 04/11/12 08:25 AM
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Originally Posted by Anonymous
When an 'experienced' youth player is confronted with a choice between playing on a 7/8th grade modified team with no cuts (anyone may participate, even those who have never played before), and being undersized but playing and practicing with a JV team whose members can consistently catch and throw, it can be a difficult decision. What is an experienced player going to get out of practicing with kids who have never played before? In any case, we felt it was more important for him to be with his classmates, help his friends develop as players and contribute to growing interest in our town and school's lax program by staying in the modified program with his immediate peers. He will play on a good team this summer.


Great parenting with sound logic! I think many of the people who make this more are caught up in the status of the move, and are willing to overlook many of the problems it creates using the developement argument to justify it. It's good to see rational thinking prevail once in a while.

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Re: Boys 2017 Fall 2011/Spring 2012
Anonymous #10639 04/11/12 09:22 AM
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I pushed the issue because i heard the State test was given (at some schools) to players behind closed doors and other players in front of Admins. The ones who did it behind closed doors passed the ones who did it behind closed doors passed.

Then I saw how those boys (who passed) if following the US lacrosse rules could really be putting their travel team at risk by playing U13 or U15 during spring.

I get the whole iron forges iron and you only get better by playing better. But the system is broken and that is why noone follows the TRUE rules.

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Re: Boys 2017 Fall 2011/Spring 2012
Anonymous #10645 04/11/12 12:34 PM
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The school team the boys play on in school should have no bearing on the travel team he plays for in the summer. As stated travel teams mess with rosters, players age etc during the summer travel season (ie. cheat). What makes anyone think that travel teams would disclose the level of school play the players on their summer team participate at. Also why should a travel team care, they want to get the best available player. The topic is nice to talk about but has NO chance of being enforced.

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Re: Boys 2017 Fall 2011/Spring 2012
Anonymous #10646 04/11/12 12:40 PM
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NOBODY will follow the rules until they are enforced and that will never happen. Lacrosse is DECADES behind travel soccer, baseball and even PAL football. Tournament directors don't care as long as payment is made. Someday a kid will be injured by an "older" player and those involved will be held accountable. Till then lacrosse will be continue to be the subject of jokes regarding age, rosters etc.

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Re: Boys 2017 Fall 2011/Spring 2012
Anonymous #10647 04/11/12 12:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Anonymous
NOBODY will follow the rules until they are enforced and that will never happen. Lacrosse is DECADES behind travel soccer, baseball and even PAL football. Tournament directors don't care as long as payment is made. Someday a kid will be injured by an "older" player and those involved will be held accountable. Till then lacrosse will be continue to be the subject of jokes regarding age, rosters etc.
This is actually a brlliant post. You are correct that it will take one massive lawsuit to change the operational model en masse. That lawsuit will be founded in some tragic event (similar to something like soccer goals blowing over or football uprights collapsing) where insurance and field usage starts to get questioned.

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Re: Boys 2017 Fall 2011/Spring 2012
CageSage #10649 04/11/12 12:53 PM
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Agreed, although goalposts falling etc can be viewed as accidents. Purposly using older/bigger players just to win is a premeditated decision by a coach/director and in many cases accepted by parents on that team. In the case of an injury the litigation would be interesting because all involved would have known about the infraction. Again just commenting on the lack of age enforcement. Can't wait for the summer season and nonsense to start.

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Re: Boys 2017 Fall 2011/Spring 2012
Anonymous #10659 04/11/12 02:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Anonymous
NOBODY will follow the rules until they are enforced and that will never happen. Lacrosse is DECADES behind travel soccer, baseball and even PAL football. Tournament directors don't care as long as payment is made. Someday a kid will be injured by an "older" player and those involved will be held accountable. Till then lacrosse will be continue to be the subject of jokes regarding age, rosters etc.


BEST post I have ever seen on this board. totally agree!!!!!

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Re: Boys 2017 Fall 2011/Spring 2012
CageSage #10685 04/12/12 12:28 AM
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Originally Posted by CageSage
Originally Posted by Anonymous
NOBODY will follow the rules until they are enforced and that will never happen. Lacrosse is DECADES behind travel soccer, baseball and even PAL football. Tournament directors don't care as long as payment is made. Someday a kid will be injured by an "older" player and those involved will be held accountable. Till then lacrosse will be continue to be the subject of jokes regarding age, rosters etc.
This is actually a brlliant post. You are correct that it will take one massive lawsuit to change the operational model en masse. That lawsuit will be founded in some tragic event (similar to something like soccer goals blowing over or football uprights collapsing) where insurance and field usage starts to get questioned.


What is with all this gloom and doom? We need a travesty to start making a change? The Tournament Directors would have no problem accepting proof of age. It starts with providing the proof. Nothing is stopping us from getting our children their own Player Passes and volunteering them. Most of us are required to have US Lacrosse memberships anyway so why not ask them to provide a Player Pass service? Easier yet, have US Lacrosse distribute member ID #'s by age and require a copy of a Birth Certificate when registering. Tournament Directors can then make this a required field in the roster forms to cross reference.

From this point break the Tournaments up into 2 Categories:

YOUTH and HIGH SCHOOL

YOUTH
Age requirement plus player may not have attended any High School class. Age Groups should be yearly (U14, U13, U12, etc.). Age cutoff date as US Lacrosse has it now. Players can play up but never down.

HIGH SCHOOL
Grade based by year of graduation (2012, 2013, 2014, etc.) plus must have attended a High School class. Players can play up but never down.

The above is not a drastic change. Really more of minor revision to what we already have.

No system is fool proof but to say NOBODY will follow the rules until they are enforced is pessimistic. My boys have been on 7 teams with 4 different Clubs and not one has ever had an ineligible player.

Should 7th and 8th graders playing for their High School programs? That's a personal choice for the player, his or her parents and the school. It has absolutely nothing to do with Club Teams.

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Re: Boys 2017 Fall 2011/Spring 2012
429lax #10686 04/12/12 07:37 AM
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No doom and gloom.....REALITY.......Please forward the tournament/director which is going to require the information that you have laid out and then review/enforce the requirements. I think we all would like that info !!!!!! Unfortunately I dont think you will find one.

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Re: Boys 2017 Fall 2011/Spring 2012
Anonymous #10690 04/12/12 07:48 AM
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Please if you were in a real towm your kid would be lucky to made the 7th grade team.

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Re: Boys 2017 Fall 2011/Spring 2012
Anonymous #10700 04/12/12 09:53 AM
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Originally Posted by Anonymous
No doom and gloom.....REALITY.......Please forward the tournament/director which is going to require the information that you have laid out and then review/enforce the requirements. I think we all would like that info !!!!!! Unfortunately I dont think you will find one.


REALITY is no one is going to do it for you. If you want it so bad then do something about it. Stop passing the buck.

I'm not saying to give up or shut up only that it is a process. Maybe BOTC can moderate the process. If it is only 10 people who are willing to petition a change it will not get too far. If it is a 1,000 people then I'd say there is a chance. Unfortunately anonymous only counts as one signature. As moderator, BOTC can then present the consensus to Club Directors and Tournament Directors for their feedback. The process will take time but at least the ball will be rolling. Soccer has their way, Baseball has theirs, Lacrosse needs its own.

IMO, the process starts with defining what we'd want enforced then we can discuss how it can be enforced. I think the US Lacrosse guideline missed the mark, at least for Long Island. I've offered an option as to what I think is viable. Anybody else care to get involved? No deadlines, just a discussion at this point.


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Re: Boys 2017 Fall 2011/Spring 2012
429lax #10702 04/12/12 11:26 AM
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Originally Posted by 429lax
Maybe BOTC can moderate the process. If it is only 10 people who are willing to petition a change it will not get too far. If it is a 1,000 people then I'd say there is a chance. Unfortunately anonymous only counts as one signature. As moderator, BOTC can then present the consensus to Club Directors and Tournament Directors for their feedback. The process will take time but at least the ball will be rolling. Soccer has their way, Baseball has theirs, Lacrosse needs its own.
BOTC already started these dscussions with the Long Island Metropolitan Lacrosse Foundation. Our interview and frank discussions with Harry Jacobs were posted in March 2012.

Advances and Movement on Player Passes

In essence, the Long Island community should not expect movement within this seasonal year (though July), but could start organizing inputs for LIMLF starting with the new seasonal year. BOTC would be happy to present any and all ideas submitted and attributed to LIMLF. Please e-mail any detailed points to cagesage@backofthecage.com.

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