Opening a new thread for the boys seventh graders with a graduation year of 2017.

Suffolk town teams at this age: Not familiar with Nassau

1.West Islip
2.Commack
3.Hills
4.Sayville
5.3 Village
6.Smithtown
7.Shorham
8.East Islip
9.Sachem
10.Comsewogue

Thoughts

1.West Islip-Solid
2.Commack-v scrappy
3.Hills-came out strong in 3rd grade, middle of the pack now
4.Sayville over smithtown and 3v?
5.3 Village-solid
6.Smithtown-best team when they have kids form turtles
7.Shorham?
8.East Islip?
9.Sachem?
10.Comsewogue?

1.West Islip - Won the All Pro Tournament last year, beat Hills
2. Hills - Had a good showing at All Pro - stayed with WI for a half
3.Smithtown - Think Won the Shamrock Shootout
4.Commack- Undefeated in Suffolk PAL
5.Sayville - Beat 3 Village and Commack at Shamrock Shootout
6.3 Village - Plays Nassau PAL
7.Sachem - Split with Sayville in PAL, not good showings at tournaments
8.East Islip - Good attackmen, Solid team
9.Shoreham - Good coaching
10.Mt. Siani - Plays in lower league in PAL, good showings at tournaments

In Nassau keep an eye out for Northshore, a core of about 15 have been playing together since 2nd grade. the last 2 summers they have played as "Palm Bay Hurricanes" if they get good coaching in middle school they can be very good.

Holy Mackrel!!!!!! How could anyone be in a position to rank 7th grade middle school town teams. Can BOTC be that devoid of good topics and conversation that we have someone rank and give an overview of these teams. I understand it promotes conversation but this has to be one of the dumbest posts I have ever seen. I guess the post writer/lacrosse 7th grade guru has scouted all the suffolk teams at the 7th grade level and has accumulated quite a scouting report!!!!OMG seriously!!

Actually, if there was an organizing local league, you would see the pecking order well-established much earlier. In the soccer world, you see travel and club teams ranked by their league competition starting at U/9, not just U/13 (seventh grade).

Agree 100%. By starting threads like these we are promoting the posturing, bragging, and even negative comments we have seen on other threads. Does it really matter who the best 7th grade team is? It can make for interesting comments but ultimately it will come down to "I'm better than you" nonsense. 7th grade lacrosse, town or select, should be about learning teamwork, respect, and hard work. Let them be kids and just play and improve - the ultra competitive years of the recruiting cycle are still a few years off.

Really not a Guru, just attend 4-6 tournaments a year for the past 3 years, look at the results of who's playing in the "A" division and there you go.

Noone is bein negative just discussing teams who will be playing each other for the next 5 years and battling for championships.

This is just a discussion not a national ranking. if it makes you feel better you can take the numbers away and discuss differnet teams or programs. With that said its a 2017 forum. The better forum should be why is it in lacrosse people always get uncomfortable with the competition or rankings? Hockey super competitive at this age, Soccer national rankings u-9, baseball teams are vying to play in the Little League world series on ESPN, Tennis and gymnastics you basically move away from home and nationally ranked. Why are lacrosse people so sensative? embrace competition and know where you stand it will make you better.

I embrace the competition on the field between the players. What I don't agree with is competition among the parents. The difference between youth lacrosse rankings and the other sports you mentioned is a governing, neutral body making the rankings. If youth lacrosse had some sort of governing body (yes, I know all about US Lacrosse)that did the rankings, then we would have something to hang our hat on. I love competition and playing the best teams but hate people talking smack!

The point is that it doesn't make a difference who is #1 in the Seventh grade. Having kide who played soccer and have some expirence the BOTC sister site BOTN lets not star having threads like them. Like the poster above said, the parents will start coming on here here spout nonsens about how there Johnny os better then your Freddy

Is saying one team is stronger than another talking smack? I agree these boards have a tendancy to get nasty, but i see no issue with someone saying team A is stronger than team B to start a discussion. And furthermore i would like to know what teams are strong in different areas so we can choose to play in more competitive tournaments and leagues which they participate. lets move forward and keep it positive.

OMG relax people. this is purely for entertainment.Please to not take this seriously. It's just away to forget about bills, work, money etc. Write something to [lacrosse] someone off,pour yourself a glass of wine come back read the responds and laught.And every once in a while you read a good post.No harm no foul.

you must be kidding me, Johnny has no left hand and poor field vision not much of an athlete at all, My Freddy is not even thinking about what HS he will attend he is already to commit to Hopkins

this is fun, now we can argue about what we are going to argue about

Yea, but your Johnny and Freddy are going to work for my Bobby because he is home studying and I am spending my lacrosse club team money on his tutor. Thats the REAL DEAL!!!!!!!!

Rockstar Indoor Started last week - What teams are playing? I did not see a schedule posted yet.

Any other indoor leagues with 2017 teams?

I'm not sure what teams are there, but I heard that Coach Danowski (Duke) and Petrimala (Hopkins) were there checking out the 2017 talent. Yeah, baby!!!!I heard this weekend Tierney is flying in from Denver for some scouting.
My 12 year is the real deal, the coaches told me so. Our 2017 team is so stacked we are all going D1!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The teams I saw participating in session 1 are as follows:

7TH/8TH GRADE

Team 91 White 7th
Three Village
Team Smithtown
Team 91 Orange 6th
Green Machine
Team 91 White 8th
Team Middle Country 8
Team 91 Orange 7th
Stampede 7/8

JV
Team Legit
Team 91 Orange
Team 91 White
Middle Country
Superstar

2/3 Grade
Syosset H.O.P.
Half Hollow Hills
Team 91 White
Dune Dawgs

4TH GRADE
Team Igloo
Team 91 White
Team 91 Orange 3rd
Dune Dawgs

5TH/6TH GRADE
KINGS PARK
Team 91 White 5th
Cold Spring Harbor
Dune Dawgs
Team 91 Orange 4th
Bravo Company
Havoc
M.C. (Middle Country)
Team 91 White 6th
Hills Lacrosse
Team 91 Orange 5th
Stampede

Over at ISA West Islip A team seems to be handling the league.
Easy wins over Bayshore's 2 teams and Comesowogue.

Still has games against Sayville and East Islip coming up.

Anyone have the standing for the RockStar league?

They don't keep score.

Interesting, I know when we played last year they kept score but didnt record goals after the lead was too great, normaly 10 goals or so.

Maybe you mean they dont keep standings......

No they do not keep scores. Indoor lax is used to get the boys practice has no bearing on the team that play at all. Boys are playing different positions so the coaches are making sure they are going righty as well as lefty.

Why does it feel like the majority of the posts on this forum make no sense.

We're talking about a 7th/8th grade league playing at Rockstar with 90% of the teams registered being travel teams, and they are working on going "righty and lefty" and "playing different positions"


Check out this future D1 second grader practicing right and lefty

Hey thats great...does he know how to pass the ball?

this clip really belongs on the 2022 thread even though he is a 2022 I heard he is already 9 years old and his parents held him back so he is not a "TRUE" U9 - at least that what a Baltimore parent told and Northern Virginia parent on the sidelines at the U9 nationals - Chanachuck already signed him to play on the 2022 express piranhas.

why so interested in what'S going down at Rockstar with the 7/8th grade teams, why didn't your team register to play in the league? All I can add is TOUGH COMPETITION but glad we are part of it. It makes sense to me that what is really important, is friendly competition, good coaching, and players rising to the occassion. In that sense we are all winners, aren't we? HAPPY HOLIDAYS

7th Grade West Islip A lost 10-9 tonight to Sayville. Good game. Goal scored with 3 seconds left made it 10-9. West Islip head coach and a few players were not present

This wed in Nj Dec 28th-Outlaws Play true Blue(Is this the Li true Blue Team and how are they??

Yes, see entire schedule at lacrossewinternationals.com

Could be some very good match ups in the 2017 group in this tourney. The scores appear to post as soon as game ends. Just checked the games from today on the site. I believe the 2018's played today. li express, true blue, outlaws and flag will be there according to the schedule.

fl$ 11 - Express 1 - anybody know what express team this was?

Lacrossewinternationals.com


Congrats to true blue. True blue wins vs fl$ in champ game.

Not sure what team it was. Did see a few known 2017 players from express. A few midfielders, defenseman, and an attack man. Other than that this team appeared new.

the chosen ones.

True Blue Lacrosse defeated For the Love of the Game, 7-1, in winning the seventh grade title at the Winter Nationals Indoor Lacrosse Championships (Indoor Sports Pavilion, Randolph, New Jersey).

True Blue's team has earned the chance to play at halftime at the Big City Classic, (to be held on April 1st, 2012 at MetLife Stadium). The Express also will compete at the Big City Classic after winning the sixth grade title on Tuesday.

Local action was strong with True Blue going undefeated in five games, defeating LI Express, 12-5, and turning back the Outlaws, STEPS and fl$ in round robin play.

not chosen ones, the better ones.

True Blue played a hard defensive style all over the field. Attackmen rode hard making it difficult for anyone to get any thing going. A well coached and talented team.

Agreed

The RICH ONES

agreed

I believe it is a developmental team made up mostly of kids that did not make Orange or Blue. They supplement the team with kids from the other teams.

fl$ parent. Where did true blue come from so quickly. Who were these boys? Tough team. Defense, goalie, ground balls, faceoffs.

The main six game from Express Orange.

The turtles are the 2017 express A team. From what I heard a bunch of the kids on true blue team were not chosen for this A team and played on express Orange last year. They left for true blue simply because these boys deserve to play on an A team. And apparently they were right.

Outlaws parent

Between Turtles, 91, True Blue, and Korwan express team. should be a fun year.

you have no idea what you are talking about.Do not worry,you will find out about True Blue.

Take two, the better ones. There where 6 Orange Team players, let's see if u can name just THREE of the towns those "rich ones" are from! You have no clue what your talking about.

U forgot a couple, a scrappy Outlaws team, fl$ & McManus Express. Turtles (I assume) will play up again. Tons of talented in this 2017 age on Long Island.

Please tell us why you six were pick to go. remember we know the real reason. Which is ok.

Agreed. And few good town teams.

Lol, my kid isn't on any if those teams. I know two of those kids, very good players. So the "real reason" statement made me lol.

I didn't forget, just breaking [....]. I do like how the outlaws play.not sure about fl$.

Lol, my kid is not any of these teams. I know two kids that went, very good players. Your "real reason" statement made me lol.

None of us are rich by any means. True Blue is based on the theory of giving back to the community and giving kids an honest chance to improve their skills and to always improve their game. TB is just as committed to assisting these kids to become fine young men and to learn the importance of giving back to their communities. It will be exciting to see this club in five years!

Don't forget about the gladiators. Good team as well.

I am not talking about True Blue. But since you started.Things will be great if you win. Start losing and watch the big three PARENTS rip other kids. I do not miss them at all.

Correct. This Gladiator Team works hard and puts a lot of practie time in. Im sure they will beat most of the Teams mentioned above. I believe they practice 2-3 times per week in the winter. The best part is you dont here any nonsense from them, as opposed to the Express bunch at this age group.
Can't wait to see them vs these Teams.Check out the web-site.Could non Smithtown Boys join?

Looking forward to watching them. Just looked at the web site, the play in 9 tournaments. How much would that cost you with the other organizati
ons.

Who are the coaches?

The Gladiators still have an open roster spot for a Goalie on their U13 team - see the thread on the Tryouts and Practices forum.

It would be great if we could get all those teams together in March, and have a little round robin.

The head coach is John Rowan - who played Division 1 college lacrosse for the Delaware Blue Hens, and currently plays for the SCPD team. John was also the head coach for Team Smithtown's PAL travel team for the past few years.

$500 per Team, donated to a local charity.Do you think the Express and Team 91 can handle giving something back to the community?.The unofficial Rankings. Nice charity event.

Turtles
Team 91
True Blue
Gladiators
fl$
Express- Korwin
Outlaws
Express- Mcmanus
Jesters

Outlaws B
Team 91 B

Looks like a great program for the Boys. Take look at the web-site for the parents trying to figure out what makes your Child a better lacrosse player.

I feel your our rankings are off as far as up to this point in Fall & Winter. Two of my best buds sons play in this age & my brothers kid. So this is what we came up with...

1-Turtles (proof that working together for many years builds that gel u need to win, they dont SWEAT anyone & will play against anyone anytime, gotta respect that)
2-Trueblue (very strong team)
3-Team 91 (won the Yale tourn vs good comp! I heard they beat Express/Mcmanus by a goal there in nailbitter. Also won Santa jam)
4-Express-Mcmanus (lots of talent on this team, if they click by spring they will be dangerous)
5-fl$ (legit team)
6-Express- korwan (talented as well, they dont hide either!)
7-Outlaws (scrappy)
8-Gladitors (havent heard of them playing any Fall or Winter tourns...they just arent "out there" yet. Im sure they will be very good by what some of you are saying on this board.)
9-Jesters (who knows)

We have to wait and see if True Blue has the dept to run in a hot summer tournament.First 10 very good.

Korwan team has no talent to speak of.Saw them at Santa Jam

Jesters B team at best.

McManus will be the team do beat.

Excellent point on Trueblue

Didn't macmanus lose to the express.sixth grade team and team 91.

Gladiators beat fl$ last spring I believe

Yup

I guess you must be like a college scout or something that you have some base of knowledge to rate lacrosse talent at the 12yr old level? It just so happens that Korwans express team has some very good players on their team, they were missing half their squad at the Santa Jam.

Truth is there are a lot very good teams and players at the 2017 age group.

They are just kids and for some grown up to sit there and bad mouth them is just sad. Get a life and enjoy watching your kid grow up.

Well said, it was a bad day for the Korwin team. Missing players, one player was there and was sick. The team is very talented and will have a great year.

Coach Korwin was missing at least 3 of his top players at Santa Jam. 2 of their games were close a goal maybe 2, their last game they were beaten up a little 6 goals maybe more. They will be better then the showing at Santa Jam

I also agree that Korwan has a good team. And I heard the same thing that they were missing players, that makes it very hard. But in my view the truely dedicated parnets/players AND COACHES that MAKE all the practices & games are usally the successful teams. Thats how real sucessful teams in any sport at ANY level work! Commitment. I know, "it's only a Fall tournament"....better teams don't think that way.

It's pretty obvious that travel youth lax isn't just a summer club thing anymore (at least on LI it's not).

Lax on Long Island is now a year round sport, especially at the club level. If your not practicing and training you will pay for it come the spring/summer season.

Yes lacrosse like soccer has become a year round sport, not leaving much time for other sports and not leaving much to look forward too, like that feeling of picking up a football again once the fall weather hits. You almost feel pressured to practice year round, competition gets tougher, especially as kids get older. Good or bad, I guess we have to follow the lead.

Let your kid play other sports. He may be (a little) behind the year rounders, but it will eventually make your son a better lax player and a more well rounded athlete. Don't give in to the pressure especially if they are not in HS yet. If they play 6-9 months out of the year and they are a great athlete they will be right with the year rounders in no time. Your kid just might look forward to playing as well.

Not in HS but almost there. He does play other sports. I agree, it makes for a well rounded athlete and human being. Thanks for your response, as a parent sometime you question what is right! Take care and Happy New Year!

I have talked to many college coaches in differing sports and each of them has stated they much prefer the kids that played multiple sports to the ones who played the one sport year round .Their reasons differed most saying that the upside of the multi-sport kid is higher in that when they get to college and now concentrate on the one sport they seem to improve more so than the kid who has only played that one sport.Others felt that the more athletic kids tended to play and succeed at multiple sports, lacrosse coaches I have spoken to stated specific sports they liked to see the kids paticipate in many saying wrestling was good for the conditioning and toughness of the kids.That being said the kids that play only lacrosse at an early age do seem to be ahead of the kids that do not.

The gap is bigger at a young age when Travel and Town teams practice once or twice a week. I think the skill gaps closes quickly when a team is practicing 2 hours a day, 5-6 times per week. The all year training that you did will be bridged in a short period of time.

My 7th grader still enjoys changing seasons, currently it’s all about shooting hoops, he picks up the stick some time at home but his focus in on basketball. The football went away after the last game and will come out again at the end of the summer. Hey, he still even enjoys baseball and has 1 more year of little league.

I know his skill is falling behind a few of the dedicated lax players but he chose to not play on an “orange” team this year so he could have 1 more year of the Williamsport tournament. He’s only 12 and will have time catch up, especially in the spring with 12 hours a week of practice between middle school, and town team.

I understand not everyone agrees and know folks who train lacrosse all year round. They’re very good players and wish them all the best.

I thinks every kid is different, there is NO right or wrong way! Leave it up to the kid, you wanna shoot hoops in winter...go for it! you wanna play lax all year round , cool! Whatever, enjoy & go hard! That's the message in my house.

Dont be fooled by statements from anyone that coaches and organizations prefer players to be "well rounded" from playing multiple sports. Deep inside we know the truth, and that is that everyone wants to win, FIRST, and sometimes at all costs. Players that play year round and participate in travel teams are much more likely to succeed,because teams like 91 will do whatever it takes to win. This sets the tone for all other organizations to follow (and not be left behind). Money is the root of all evil after all.

Wow. 91 sets the "tone" that everyone else will follow. Really!!"C'mon man". These pages have detailed all the nonsense that 91 does some of which may not be true most of which probably is. They are a new "start up" organization that screwed the Lizards to line their own pockets. And thats just on the boys side. What they did and continue to do with the girls program should have them in court answering to a lawsuit. Lets not look at 91 as the bellweather or LI Lax is in trouble.

You are referring to two different issues here. Practicing all year round will defininitely give you the best chance of being the best team at your age group, . The kids will develop their skills quicker and the team will have more continuity. If your goal is to dominate at the youth level than have at it. The owners of the clubs want that because "the keep up with the Jonses" phenomenon in LI lax is just what these BUSINESS men are counting on. (the America Dream). That being said having the best team in 3rd grade or even 8th grade is not getting your kid into college. The coaches don't see them until they are in ninth grade (the earliest) and that is more likely if they play in their school playoff game. For the parents on the "year round" teams you just have to know that if your kid is not a "top 5 kid and he is in 5th or 6th grade there is a good chance by the time your in High school your kid will be replaced or at the back of the bench. Other kids will catch up! Even the kids who don't play year round. Don't get me wrong, I think it is important to stay involved in a travel program and work on your skills, but dont't do the year round thing if you are doing it because you feel presured that your kid won't be able to keep his spot on the team. There are plenty of teams out there and by the time they are in HS the difference in those teams will be surprisingly slim.

You sound like you speak from experience, and I like your perspective on things. I agree! But like everything else in life, and especially on Long Island, keeping up with the Joneses is all we know. Politics plays a big role in where your son or daughter will wind up, regardless of their talent. I for one can not stand listening to a parent tell others how great their child is at age 11 or 12, because I, like you know, every child develops at their own pace.

I agree! All of a sudden 91 is the end all be all?? LMAO. I know many of those 91 fellows, big time BS being tossed around in "Hills"...I mean 91!

Also, why do people come on here and say, "let your kid play other sports"?? What if my son doesn't WANT to play other sports? What if he just loves LAX? Now thats bad? Gimmie a break!!! How about we all raise our kids the way we WANT to!

You are right,everyone can do whatever they want, but most of the posts were in response to families feeling pressured to play all year round in fear of their kid losing their spot on the better teams. I think many families are confused to which is the best course of action.It is your kid, do what you want ,but i think many people actually try to use this board as a forum for advice and information and not just to bash rival clubs!

I see, got it. My mistake. I will say... Im not a fan of the bashing rival clubs either but when i see stuff posted about certain clubs that is NOT true, I voice my opinion. It unfortunately creates a vicious cycle.

"Also, why do people come on here and say, "let your kid play other sports"?? What if my son doesn't WANT to play other sports? What if he just loves LAX? Now thats bad? Gimmie a break!!! How about we all raise our kids the way we WANT to!"
Calm down ,I think everyone but you understood what they were saying, shocking express parents get the reputation they have,get your own life and stop living thru your child.

Hey tough guy behind a computer-
1-Ill calm down when I WANT.
2-I admitted I was wrong & misread the previous post
3-I didn't know Express parnets were different than any other parnet
4-Living trough my kid? Not the case...if you only knew.

Couldnt have said it any better myself. Nice post! I think another thing people need to understand is the burnout factor. I would be very careful about pushing these kids too hard, because by high school some of these kids will just be plain burnt out. Playing other sports kind of breaks it up.

I have a 2017 and 2021 son that both play town and travel. Found this board in an attempt to get others reflections on experiences they have had. This thread is dedicated to our 2017 and how we should be aware of the perceived rights and wrongs, competitiveness and burnout as it relates to our 7th grade sons. Many raise good points and I can understand the logic. What I find so interesting is that the same conversation is being had on the 2019/20120 thread. Kind of puts things in perspective as we are worried about pushing to hard with 12-13 year olds.

True Blue played 3 tournaments last summer and made the finals in all three, so I would think they have been tested
Judging Korwins team on the Santa Jam is weak, he was missing at least 3 of his top players
Jesters lost quite a few players from last years average team
McManus also lost quite a few of his better players ( to True Blue) but his teams always seem to get it together in the end

What spring leagues are town teams going to play this spring to supplement middle school? OBLL? PAL? Or some other league?

True Blue last year played with at least 6 to 7 older players.

True Blue is a very good team. Have seen them play. Mcmanus has a very good group of kids. Picked up a couple of kids from 91 Orange, plus others. Mcmanus has drawn from upstate NY and all over LI.

How about we stop the rumors now. True Blue was age based last year, U-13, made up of 6th and 7th graders. The 7th graders have moved on and this years team is made up of all 7th graders all who are eligible under U-13 guidelines.

Normally most town teams dont play PAL after 6th grade, at least i know my town doesnt. Some town teams play in the OBLL but it really depends on your town. With most kids playing middle school ball and travel ball, not enough time to do anything else.

There are many town teams that play PAL through the 8th grade. The only thing is the amount of teams I most likely cut in half because of middle school lax

Do you folks know if the Turtle 2017 (U13) team will also be joining the NPYLL as is the U15? They should match up well against the Baltimore teams ie: (Looneys is not in this yr) Crabs, Breakers, Hawks, and the DC teams

2017 rankings are more like:
1> Turtles
2> True Blue
3> fl$
4> 91 Orange
5> Express - McManus
6> Express - Korwen
7> Gladiators
8> Outlaws
Rest of the pack -----> Jesters, Team L.I, Pride, etc..

Outlaws have added 5-7 new Kids. Also new Coach That Coached on Highest level and is Great with Team. They will Not be beating Turtles, NO ONE ON THIS LIST WILL, but will challange all others.

The 3 express teams should be 1-2-3. They seem to be clearly the best 3 teams around. Good organization and coaching. Sorry to the other teams but the express should roll this year.

How can they be 1,2,3 if they lost to their 2018 team?

With the exception to the Turtles, that comment might be worst sumation of talent to date. I think this thread has been slow for a few weeks, and what better way to get this going then a real bad statement

Sorry Express!!! 91 should do well this year. We added some quality players and size throughout the team that most teams will not be able to counter. We are on our way up and should win most tournaments this year!!

As a 2016 express orange parent the turtle bragging is an insult to a good organization our team dismantled you with 11 players full strength your coaches parents and kids would have been crying teams the next 3 years will get bigger turtles will not play well against bigger teams so from one express parent to another shut up and play the games

Sorry 2016. We gave you a heck of a game....now you say your team "wasn't full strength" ...how mindless. We hear that excuse all the time. We all wear our tutle outfits because we are proud!!!!

We had 11 kids it was 11 to 1 careful what you wish for next year you will be in our division I am sure mike c will play any time you want to bad joe will never let his kids be embarrassed like that again that's why you have shells so you can hide idiot

For sure you are overstating the score. Man-up and admit it was a much closer game than you guys would have wanted. if you need to puff about the score .....go ahead. Little J will have us play you anytime !!!!

The game was not close and you are living your life in your kids uniform

You are a complete embarrassment to this club and the boys that represent it. The 2016 team is good and most are happy this team was assembled. you are really a parent you would know that game was a "coachinng scrimmage", to help prepare the turtles for the Dicks Tournamnet, inserting new plays and practicing man-up and man-down. Get a clue.

My kid will be trying out for True Blue next year. i am sick of being charged for every practice section.Express is out of hand.

You paying for practice or TRAINING? bit of a difference....

We do not practice, we pay for training not with our team. we will never beat the top teams. a good group of us are done.

My son's Express team does practice, the summer fee is for exactly that Summer practices, tournaments and uniform. Everything that has been done lately is additional, they are clinics not practices.Which team is your son on?

I do not see any Turtle needs at these sections. Why because they are a team with a strong coach, my guy has to play the game to look out for is kid down the road, we all suffer.

I feel your frustration, however keep in mind we are not even in Spring season as yet. Everything the Express has been doing over the winter has been completely optional and not under the guise of a "practice". My son is on a 2017 Express team as well and other than playing indoor at Freeport, we have not practiced much at all. We had a fall season with practices as well. Come the spring im sure your team will work itself out. The Express is like every other travel lax program, they are there to make money. Understand it, deal with it and move on. Do the things that work best for you and your sons development. The Express have some excellent lacrosse people at their disposal. I take adavantage of them every chance I get.

That team has been given anything they want based on the relationship between the purchasing power of the Express and the provider. As stated many times here, the organizations are there to make money. The team benefit is totally one-sided for the turtles as no other teams within the organization reap that benefit. If you believe your not getting the bang for your buck...find a different place for your kid to play..and LEARN instead of lining the pockets of certain organizations.

I'm sure he would as you are in a no lose situation - if you lose to an older team the response back to the team is, well, they were older, or they didn't play lacrosse but out physicaled us, last I checked being physical is part of the game. No?

My point is If you combined the best kids from McManus and Korwan you can give the turtles a good game.

But now you need a coach with money,time and power.

oh yea, and add to that a private practice facility and private coaching. All provided to just that ONE team which if you follow the $$$ has been made from others within the organization paying for uniforms etc supplied by the coach/business owner.

Hopefully you are a kid making these comments and not someone burning their battery on their iPhone while trying to keep warm in Zuccotti park. Either way get a life and move on if not happy with the position or club you are in. I hear China and Russia have some excellent clubs.

Express 2017 Orange (McManes) played an excellent game tonight vs 2016 Jesters. The whole game was a 1 goal game from beginning to end. Express tied it up at the game ending buzzer! Exciting stuff. Express had like half the players the Jesters had (Jesters had to have 24 kids). My son 5th grade FC team was playing next and it was a great game to watch, 2017 Orange team looked pretty damm good to me!

I saw the game also. Express looks like they have taken steps forward to compete at the highest level....ie beat the turtles and MD teams over the summer.

Thanks for the update on this important indoor lax game!!! If your kid had the game after why in the world would you comment on this game and not the game your kid played in. Oh let me guess.....your really a 2017 parent. The Jesters were looking at some new kids during game...maybe that why they had so many kids, and were still winning ...genius

express 2017 orange got crushed by Massapequa 8th and beat badly by some team with a mix of kids from 91. Jesters 2016 is not too strong a team.
Not that any of that matters because it is winter indoor.

Belive that and i guess True Blue, 91 and fl$ are toast.

Your team was winning but they DIDNT win the GAME! I didn't know weren't allowed to post about other games. And why would I post about my kids age when its 5th grade and this is a 7th grade thread.

The long & short of it is this- I could care less how many kids Jesters were "looking at" or that your pissed that a 2017 team out played your 2016 team, I could care less how good or bad express orange is. i was just commenting on what I witness, GENIUS.

Isn't it interesting how when some teams lose or play lazy that don't have "all their kids" or are "looking at" new kids (in FEB!!) there is an excuse? Man up, tool.

Express 2017 will beat the teams mentioned. We have the talent, size etc to compete at the top of the 2017 age group. These other teams can't match up with us. We will see come summer but we will win a lot of the tournaments this year

Yes it was an exciting ending to what appered to be a good game. If there is truth about "looking at new players" keep looking they were outplayed and outhustled by a younger team.

Go make a comment on your kids thread.....you are by no means looked upon as some type of authority.....Mr TOOL

Who cares about an indoor game in Feb? Means absolutely nothing.

Its comical how many of you come on here and say, "who cares about a fall tournament" or "who cares about a winter indoor game". Well isn't this a thread called 2017 FALL 2011/SPRING 2012?!?!?!? wth? If you not want to TALK about middle school boys lax during this time of year than MAYBE you should STAY OFF THIS THREAD this time of year.

Ill post where ever I want. So, how do you know if Im an authority or not? You have no clue who I am or what Ive done in lacrosse. I bet you never played a sport in your life, as the earlier person posted your fl$ 8th grade group got out hustled on that night, it doesn't make them a bad them. Get a life & calm down tough guy.

It has nothing to do with not wanting to talk about it this time of year. Whats really comical is how people actually think indoor games mean something and it actually is any indication of how a team will do moving forward. People on here are posting indoor game results like there the NCAA championships or something.

OK DAD....so what is it that you want to say regarding the 2017 thread?? Or do you like to just read what you write!!

HUH?

How many teams does express have in the 2017 age group and what is the so called pecking order ? Thanks for any info ahead of time.

Mcmanus...A
turtles.....B
Korwin.....B

you are going to need a bigger stick to stir that pot.

Did not want to stir the pot , how about answering how many teams are there in the 2017 age group in no particular order.

2017 Express- 5 teams total
Turtles, AA
McManus and Korwan, A
Crimi, B
Combo team of the previous Riptide and Manhasset kids, B

Kudos to you sir, you actually got it correct.

OBLL starts March 3/4. Game on everyone!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Good luck to all 2017 Teams, looking forward to the great competetion.

WOW, that's a bold statement. All I can say is that I've seen all these teams play and the turtles would easily handle any combination of kids you could put together from McManus and Korwan.

Seriously, the Outlaws?? Get a grip dude, that team will not challenge any elite level program listed on this thread.

We will have to wait a year to find out.

I don't feel its a bold statement at all. I tend to agree with the person who posted combining 2017 Orange (McManass) kids with Piranha (Korwan) kids, give the best 10 from each team 4 weeks of practice TOGETHER with a strong vocal head coach and Turtles would have a game on there hands. Turtles have been together for a long time with same excellent 5 or 6 kids doing the heavy lifting.

Combining those two teams top guys gives you a talented hungry group.

I think what we we are trying to say if you put Turtles, Mcmanus,and Korwan team on the field. And flew in coaches from Maryland and told them to pick a team, that 8 to 9 kids from Korwan and McManus would be picked.

Um...No, not exactly........

The Turtles are a group of talented kids that have played and practiced often together for several years at this point, producing a talented team. Some of the players are very good while others are, well just good. As a team however, they perform well above average. For only the past and present however as of course, all players at this age start to develop and greater athletes emerge. Puberty can only help genetics so much.

Korwan (Piranhas) and McManus (Orange) both have very good players on their teams. They have both changed their rosters significantly since last year and the kids need time together. They each may have 10 or more players that are very good. As the kids practice and play together and put time and work in their teams will perform even better.


So, the Turtles have had a significant head start that may have success that last or not. They deserve all of credit due to them for their efforts. However, I agree if you put 10 or 12 of Korwans and McManus' players together, gave them the resources and time, they would become a significant team to compete with. Funny thing is that I don't think you need to even combine the players, each of these teams with time will perform well.

I don't think any of it really matters. For the moment it has been fun just getting to watch our little kids become more powerful skilled players and young men.

Piranhas will be a interesting team. If they can keep this team together for the next few years they will be fun to watch. I've watched them play at half strength, they are good. My best friends son is on the team and he says that they are a bunch of great kids, no egos team first. I know 7th grade but it has to start somewhere.

I think everyone with sons in 2017 need to understand that all efforts should be to get your son better, period. Worrying what team is better than another is useless at this level. Colleges do not recruit teams, they recruit individuals. The focus should be finding a team where your son has the opportunity to play meaningfull minutes, has a coach that is invested in making him better, and most important the team is made up good supportive kids that can make each other better. Look at all these kids being recruited from non-lacrosse hotbed states, usually it's because they are on a team that hey play a ton of minutes and that's what gets you better. Combine those two express teams you may have a better team but you will cut down the playing time for someone and that's experience you can't get back. Stick with the plan, get your kids better, get them on a team so they get quality playing time and then see what happens in a few years.

None of these post are intended to imply that any combination team will form from Piranhas and Orange. I can state from personal experience that most of the Korwan (Piranhas) players are very content and although have had other options, chose to stay loyal to their team. Reading these post, I believe it is evident that most are just pointing out the depth of quality and skill that is emerging in 2017 and what was once a dominated year is becoming more competitive. Just fun speculating. Thus, to your point above, yes these boys are getting much better very quickly and they are only going to close the perceived gap even more as they mature.

I'm not sure why people think these Express teams will be so good this Spring. Granted Korwen's team has been upgraded after being very average last year while McManus lost some key players to True Blue. I think you are underestimating the teams they will face this Spring.

No need to be so sensitive on the subject. The recent discussion has only been that of comparing the skill set and teams under the Express 2017 group. I don't think anyone intended to take anything away from other quality programs and individual players.

Enjoy the games this summer with whatever team you may be cheering for.

My son is on Korwan team. and a couple of us were talking about how hard the spring season was gonna be. With every game being a battle. I only wish 91 would join in.

You only have one person to blame for that.

You all need to keep this in prospective. You never know who the superstars will be after a boy's growth spirt. Some kids are powerhouses and then fizzle away. Others come into their own in high school. ENJOY the game and the experience.

Great advise. There is a logical thinking parent. Let them enjoy their sport and have fun with it. If they don't love it due to tremendous pressure from parents they will not succeed anyway. Run, enjoy and stay off of drugs and alcohol and let the rest take it's course.

Express Orange (McManess) did LOSE players from last year BUT they gained several strong players! Just like Jim Mule's (91 Orange), just like Piranhas (Korwan Express) and just like fl$ 2017 team!! They are ALL the same, players jump & move ALL the time! Every year. Except Turtles, hence why they always win.

Didnt Turtles recruit new players this year ?

Who cares if they recruited. They are the best team at 2017, no doubt about it. teams will give them good games this year, what else can you do..plsy them tough and move on. Who cares if you win or lose to them. Should just focus on your son and him getting better. At least with the turtles, you know what you are getting with some of the other Express teams they have kids magically appear at tournaments.

I believe they added a defenseman and a middie this year. Bottom line is they are a very good team, probably the best team in the country at the age group. Good for them! My son plays on a 2017 Express team and always looks forward to playing against them.

yes, turtles picked up a dman from GC

D-man from GC played for the Tomahawks last year, Middie is a Smithtown kid ( Joe D has them all locked up ) from the Gladiators. Both good players will add to their teams depth

they also picked up a faceoff man from the Gladiators

YOU GUYS KILL ME. LACROSSE SEASON HAS BEGUN! GO CRABS !

best team in the country very interesting i see you are playing in philly this weekend lets see how you fair down there before you make such a bold statement

I thought the GC defenseman plays for fl$? Different kid?

One GC player went to fl$ the other to the Turtles, not sure if the Smithtown middie is there full time or if it was a one time thing for Florida

Express 2017 Orange McManus put a beating on fl$ 2017 yesterday 15-0. fl$ never had a shot from opening FO. The middies for Express Orange were nonstop, Orange Attack was in perfect & goalies were great plus Express Defense shut down fl$ by clean smart physical play. My son plays for RVC, we played before them and he wanted to watch the older boys and I'm glad we stuck around on a beautiful sunny day! That Orange team is no joke.

Agreed. Express Orange are a AA team this year.!!!

Can someone from fl$ comment . Seems odd.

My son worked out yesterday with one of the players from fl$ 2017, he asked him if it was true and what happened. He told my son they were short 4 players one being there top dpole and the other there FO middi, and that they just got outplayed

Team played great so who sits when Coach Mac brings in his nephew from Georgia for the Tournaments

A non roster player comes in during tournaments?

Everyone has an off game. Don't count out fl$ this summer. From what I remember last summer they started out rough, then lost to the turtles 5-2.

All of us will really see how good this express team is against true blue Saturday.

Express will keep on rolling.

1- Turtles
2- Gladiators
3- True Blue
4- fl$
5- 91 Orange
6- Everyone else

Based on what?

Well the way I see it no one can beat the Turtles at this point. Then the rest is based on the beginning of the season OBLL, and my opinion. (not worth much just a thought)Gladiators I believe just beat McManus Express 11-5.

Yes based on what, a week ago people were claiming that the Express were the end all be all of 7th grade lacrosse. The orange lose to the Gladiators and the blue lose to True Blue and they don't even get mentioned on your power rankings, but fl$ is ranked 4th a week after getting destoyed by one of the aformentioned Express team. I think everyone agrees that the Turtles deserve to be on top due to their body of work, but if you let one game decide where everyone is maybe 91 should be on top because they are underfeated.

It's undefeated, not underfeated. But I digress, who gives a (blank) where a team is ranked. I think all the teams mentioned and those not are competitive. Just play, baby.

what teams are going to shamrock and who is playing who in this age group

Wow! It's just all in good fun. These aren't real rankings; you know that, right? LOL.

2017 A Shamrock
North Shore - Sayville 4-4 Tie
Garden City - 5-4 win over 3 Village
New Fairfield - 7-5 Win over West Islip
New Fairfield 4-3 Win over Garden City
Sayville 8-5 Win over West Islip
North Shore 5-4 Win over 3 Village
Sayville - Garden City 5-5 Tie
West Islip - 3 Village ?
New Fairfeild 5-4 Win over North Shore

Championship New Fairfield beat Sayville 7-1. Teams were all very competitive (except for last game). Very good lacrosse played by all on a great day.

Lets see how the club teams fair tomorrow.

West Islip - 3 Village 6-0

Got to watch Team 91, Gladiators and True Blue yesterday. I've come to the conclusion that all three of these Teams will have great games against each other. Team 91 plays a smart team game, I think the Gladiators have put together a nice team as well. If True Blue plays a more disciplined game they will be tough to beat as well.

Agree - watched some of the gladiators play against 91. 91 won 5-4 (at least that is what the dad next to me said). Good game for both teams.

How did true blue do at Shamrock I watched them play do not know what division but looked good, saw they did not win wondering who beat them thanks

True Blue did Great, first time out as a program. 7th grade team lost in the finals, 5th grade B went 3 and 0 but missed out on the first tiebreaker due to goals against, 5th grade A went 1-1-1 lost their first game in a brave heart won their second and lost the 3rd in a competative game against the eventual champions Dune Dawgs. Not sure how the 8th grade team finished but do know they won their first game.

Gladiator vs Team 91(Orange) : 5 to 6.
Team 91(Orange) vs True Blue : 5 to 1 (Championship Game)

Did True Blue and 91 play earlier in the day I thought I saw them playing and for the short amount of time I watched it looked like True Blue was winning the game ,perhaps it was another team

Big game this weekend True Blue vs Express Mcmanus, lets see who is talking after.

Express Orange will roll. 2017 Orange is one of the best teams around. True Blueie is a start up team without the coaching orange has.

That's funny...last year it was local kid who was a grade older than everyone else.

I think it is going to be a game.....both solid teams.

I see the wounds of the lose a few weeks ago have healed and the Express Ego is once again healthy. I wouldn't want to be your kid if the team loses.

Ignorance is bliss. True Blue has the staff posted on their website - pretty impressive. It's no wonder they are successful. Good for them.

Looks like it might be a bit easier for the express 2017 orange this weekend. I hear the six Commack Boys have a Town game they must attend for JV spots. Should be fun both good Teams. All these 2017 Teams will face each other often.

That makes no sense....JV is already 2-3 games into the season? What would a town PAL game have to do with JV....

Could be me just responding to some more spam on the boards, similiar to the Express team comments which is likely is not even from someone related to the Express.

Six Commack 7th graders getting moved to JV all at once? And they qualify in town game for those JV spots? Funny.

first they must qualify by passing a physical exam. strength endurance, etc. for the spots before they can even try out. NY state rules. oh but maybe they have connections that run so deep that it doesnt make a difference if they pass the stations.

oh wait wrong town

I agree, True Blue has a phenomenal coaching staff and it shows! This is the team to be on!! Just a fan, my kid doesn't play for them. They are an organized, professional group of people that put together a great oranization. Acalades well deserved

My son said fl$ easily handled Express Korwen last weekend??

Game has been over a few hours any results

Final score 6-5 - Express won. True Blue up for awhile, leading by two. Good game-bad weather! Wet and cold on turf. Heard True Blue is playing at halftime at the BIG CITY CLASSIC tomorrow at the Meadowlands.

Yes, 6-5 Express. We heard it was a good game where Trueblue was trailing for a good bulk of 2nd half by 2 or 3 to the 2017 Express Orange. Congrats to TB for earning their way to play at BIG CITY CLASSIC.
And congrats to Express 2018 Orange & Express 2016 Orange for earning the right to play in BIG CITY CLASSIC today also in the other two college halftime games.

As a 91 parent with no ties to either organization, I have to comment on this True Blue group.
1st off based on the coaching of the 7th grade team I would recommend the name be change to True Trash!
These kids are taught to play cheap undisciplined lacrosse.
2nd the parents are so over the top it's unreal. Do any of you even know the basics of the game? Love how the spectator referees from the sidelines scream that EVERY call should be FOR them and EVERY call against them is wrong.
Do you people really pay to have college coaches help out?
Since 91 Orange and Express Orange have beat you, where does that leave you? 5th or 6th best team in the age group? Don't forget there are two other teams in the Express organization that will beat you as well.
Can someone please re-rank the 2017 age group for us.
TRUE TRASH!!!!!!!!!
What a nice ring that has.

In the two years that BOTC has been on the air, this is the very first negative comment at any level about the True Blue program. Honestly, your views are off the mark on this one.

Obviously you only spend your time on this board and have not witnessed a single game.
Either that or this site is owned by True Blue

Yes, that's what it is. Well spotted. Anytime you are ready to come out of the shadows and have a conversation, just e-mail us at cagesage@backofthecage.com ... we will let you know everything you need to know about True Blue.

another nasty parent. relax it's just lacrosse

May be the first negative but watched them true blue play team LI and they do have some out of control parents and players. One of there players were kicked out of game because he was cursing at ref ,coaches just gave him the old don't worry about it.Not good.

1. Team 91 Orange
2. Gladiators
3. LI Express McMcanus
4. True Blue/Express Korwin
5. fl$
6. Outlaws

Left the Turtles off on purpose, we know where they stand.

Just one man's opionion.

Please feel free te email me anytime at 91ownsyou@true.com

My sons plays on the true blue 7th grade team and the game needs to be replayed as the weather was a factor.
How can they play a normal game in such conditions?
I'm sure we will win next time.
You have us ranked below the gladiators? Please. They didn't even make the finals at the Shamrock and we did.

We beat them by 1 and you by 4. They also beat Mcmanus you didnt.

nonsense. If you want to comment get your facts straight. If a a player on the true blue team gets a penalty for unsportsmanlike conduct, he is benched for the following game. All our players and parents know this. as far as the team 91 parent comments...get real. yes we lost those games and we have work to do. we take alot of penalties to our peril, and our coaches are working on getting our boys to play with more discipline. to say they are coached to play dirty is just another inflammatory and silly statement meant to anger. instead of being happy and proud that the 2017 long island teams are competetive, and have such great parody, people like to come here and tear others down. these are ALL our kids. When the orange team won on saturday, they celebrated like they won the world series. and well they should. it was a 6-5 hard fought game. stop being so negative about everything, and see it for what it is. kids learning and playing a game they love. As a True Blue parent with an interest in seeing our team learn and succeed, congrats to team orange. you deserved to win.
Remember, your kids read these posts just as the parents do. have a little class, and stop with the over the top nonsense. i teach my son this-A measure of a man is not how he handles his wins, but how he handles his losses. Good luck to ALL the 2017 teams this summer. And parents, be proud and supportive cuz someday its all going to be over.

Do not have son on any of mentioned teams in age group. I look at this thread because it is so entertaining. Sad, obnoxious and pathetic, but entertaining. Weather was a factor ? Did it rain or was cold for only one team and not the other.

"If a a player on the true blue team gets a penalty for unsportsmanlike conduct, he is benched for the following game."

Challenge.

Tell me another one. If that were the case the team should be expanded to 30 kids

We(McManus) beat up the Skowren team pretty well, and I am sure we will handle the Gladiators next time we play

The 5th grade coaches are terrible also, so glad that we were able to shut them up at shamrock

You beat Korwan team my one goal, and u played 12 kids the whole game. I guess you were pouring a drink and missed most of the game.

Who are you talking about? TB?

Fact- no you didn't, think hard now.......

"Skorwen" please God, hope your kid is working on his education more than you did.

Fun game though, if you actually paid attention to the game.

No, Express McManus played Express Korwan two Sundays ago. McManus won by one goal, great game and the kids had fun.

Korwin loses by one goal..hmm..Seems like Korwins team played Orange team much better than expected, isnt the "Orange" team supposed to be the Elite/Better team? doesnt sound too elite now does it. Seems like they may get spanked by ye old piranhas
next time.. Over here in 91world..Our trusted Orange players (HH) will continue to "roll"..Love that..we are about to crack that stupid shell..!!

Lets get serios for a minute and leave the team with the shell out of it.

I don't think it is an issue if the Turtles are in the conversation or not, or TB, 91, McManus or Korwan for that matter. Enjoy the games and acknowledge that on a given day kids and teams can play very well or show they have work to do.

What is sad, pathetic really, is an adult talking about "cracking shells" and "giving a beating". The kids played the game not you, the supposed adult. Can't wait to listen to these people on the sidelines during varsity games yelling "break his collar bone".

Arrogance on these boards leads to nothing, except hopefully some level of embarrassment after you click submit. Let he kids play the game, support your team, and the game.

Orange 2017 shortens the bench in big games it looked like they brought in a ringer to play defense vs Korwin. He was the only kid without an orange helmet and he was gigantic

I suspect many of these posts are written by the kids themselves. I know my son and others read these forums as a previous poster commented earlier on. Do you really want to banter with 7th and 8th graders over which team is the best???

The mystery kid returns for this team again. What color helmet/stick did the kid have?

Black helmet silver/grey stick

I think it was Paul R

This team is known for bringing in older kids. They should vacate their tournament wins from last year for using older kids. Anybody who played on the team last year knows it to be true.

Saw TB play in the Oyster Bay league last night, while they are prone to take undisciplined penalties they have a lot off talented players and when they Gel they are going to be very tough. As far as the previous comments about their parents being over the top, from what I overheard and saw they are just like every other team, they cheer for their kids and complain about the referees.

Should a child play on 2017 if they play for HS team?

No. You are probably better off playing on a U15 team if you are talented enough in 7th grade to play varsity. Haven't heard of too many 7th grade HS players. 8th grade is uncommon enough. Now, if your question is should someone on a HS team play down on a 2017 team - definitely NO!

Of course he should be able, why tell a 7th grader that is good enough to play on his or her High School team, whether it be JV or Varsity, that you cant play with the 2017 club team? imo crazy to punish a kid..

That is a bad HS TEAM.

Our a good player. I know of a 7th grader more then contributing on a jv team. Varsity would be a little much.

Throwing the Hot Shotz team into the summer mix. Very well coached by Eric Dunne, Chris Martocchia and Yale soph Brandon Mangan. The whole team is made up of scrappy Wantagh boys who started raw and have come a very long way under the guidance of Coach Dunne. Not the best team out there, but in terms of a true town team that plays ALL of the better travel teams they play well. Kudos to the little punks from Wantagh!

I thought there were US lacrosse rules (could be wrong) about which level you should play on if you play ANY HS level lax. Cage please confirm.

US Lacrosse has Age and Eligibility Guidelines available at this location :

US Lacrosse Age and Eligibility Guidelines

The ruling on which you seek more information follows.

Players who are participating in any high-school level program such as a high school freshman, JV-B, junior varsity, varsity or club team should not be eligible for U15 competition in the same season. This means that a player who is age-eligible for U15 but plays on a high school level team should not concurrently play on a youth league U15 team. At other times of the year this player may be U15 eligible, for example, for summer ball or fall ball play, depending on the guidelines of the sponsoring league or organization.

So a 7th grader or 8th grader should not play 2017/18 (of course no 8th grader should play 2017 anyway) if they play JV ball in the spring but of course who is following US lacrosse rules.

I am not sure if this should be enforced with so many 7th/8th graders on JV teams across the island.

If I understand it correctly, seems like the Tri-State tournament may be a good model. It has both a U15 age based division that is adhering to the US Lacrosse guidelines while also having a Grade based division for AA Elite Travel Clubs.

http://www.trilax.com/pdfs/523611265111019_National.pdf

This is an excerpt from the link above:
AGE BRACKETS | Age guidelines must be STRICTLY followed.
Divisions and brackets are grade or age based. For age based
brackets, the cutoff date is 08|31|11. For example, if your player
was 10 on 08|31|11 then he qualifies for the U11 division. If your
player is 11 on 08|31|11, then he does not age qualify for U11 and
must play in the U13 division. U15 players fall under both our U15
and Rising Sophomore divisions. The U15 consists of Youth
brackets and players cannot have had any HS playing experience
prior to Summer 2012 (no Rising Sophomores). The Rising
Sophomore consists of HS brackets and is for players who have had
HS playing experience prior to the 2012 Summer or have completed
their Freshman year of HS. All AA brackets require tournament
director approval. Rising Senior AA is by invite only.
At all levels, players can play up but NEVER down!

That's well and good, but how do they enforce it. I am sure there are plenty of 8th graders who get moved up to JV. Doesnt mean their travel team they play with over the summer is going to 1. Take them off their roster or 2. Moved the whole team up to a rising sophomore level. I would guess each travel 8th grade team would have more then a few JV players on each team.

What about those 7th graders on JV teams. Uh Oh. Makes us 2018 parents think twice about next year and things to come.

This is a 2017 thread. Sure move a qualified 8th grader up to JV.

But there are a few 7th graders ( deservedly or not ) on JV teams. Some of these boys are on these so called LI elite travel teams. You know who you re.

So the question is Is it right for them to play summer u13. I say who cares where they played in the spring, they all want the best summer experience and that means playing against the best.

I see your point. As you stated above - their are a lot of 8th graders who play JV and in rare cases Varsity for High Schools that are not lacrosse powerhouses. Although there is always the rare exceptional standout, most of these 8th graders play at the same level as the rest of their grade based travel teammates.

I always end up going back to the fact that I think the age brackets are set up wrong. Should be U10, U12, and U14. The vast majority of 8th graders would fall into the U14 category. After U14 make it all Rising Sophomore, Rising Junior and Rising Senior which coincides with college recruiting camps, etc.. The U15 bracket blurs the line between Youth and High School which makes no sense. Seems like a pretty simple and basic fix.

For youth sports, I think it should be age based not U or grade based. Pick cutoff dates and stick with it. Someone will always be older someone will always be younger.

But the issue is the child who is not in HS who is playing HS level, maybe if you play JV or V and are on a 7/8, U13, or U15 team then that team most becomes an "AA" team, where it is understood who may be playing on those "AA" teams.

If you are not on a "AA" team should you really be playing HS level. Rules stipulate you should not be pulled up to fill a spot. My understadning is also that the 7/8 grader cant just be the best play that is left (or available) but better than more than half the existing team trying out.

but like everything else the lines get blurred.

I don't understand why you would want a 7th grader playing JV level lacrosse. JUst the size difference alone. Many 7th grader would be giving up alot in height and weight. Not only that, I find it hard to beleive that most 7th Graders would pass the puberty test (tanner test) to compete anyway

When an 'experienced' youth player is confronted with a choice between playing on a 7/8th grade modified team with no cuts (anyone may participate, even those who have never played before), and being undersized but playing and practicing with a JV team whose members can consistently catch and throw, it can be a difficult decision. What is an experienced player going to get out of practicing with kids who have never played before? In any case, we felt it was more important for him to be with his classmates, help his friends develop as players and contribute to growing interest in our town and school's lax program by staying in the modified program with his immediate peers. He will play on a good team this summer.

Good on you, your town is Lucky to have you

Great parenting with sound logic! I think many of the people who make this more are caught up in the status of the move, and are willing to overlook many of the problems it creates using the developement argument to justify it. It's good to see rational thinking prevail once in a while.

I pushed the issue because i heard the State test was given (at some schools) to players behind closed doors and other players in front of Admins. The ones who did it behind closed doors passed the ones who did it behind closed doors passed.

Then I saw how those boys (who passed) if following the US lacrosse rules could really be putting their travel team at risk by playing U13 or U15 during spring.

I get the whole iron forges iron and you only get better by playing better. But the system is broken and that is why noone follows the TRUE rules.

The school team the boys play on in school should have no bearing on the travel team he plays for in the summer. As stated travel teams mess with rosters, players age etc during the summer travel season (ie. cheat). What makes anyone think that travel teams would disclose the level of school play the players on their summer team participate at. Also why should a travel team care, they want to get the best available player. The topic is nice to talk about but has NO chance of being enforced.

NOBODY will follow the rules until they are enforced and that will never happen. Lacrosse is DECADES behind travel soccer, baseball and even PAL football. Tournament directors don't care as long as payment is made. Someday a kid will be injured by an "older" player and those involved will be held accountable. Till then lacrosse will be continue to be the subject of jokes regarding age, rosters etc.

This is actually a brlliant post. You are correct that it will take one massive lawsuit to change the operational model en masse. That lawsuit will be founded in some tragic event (similar to something like soccer goals blowing over or football uprights collapsing) where insurance and field usage starts to get questioned.

Agreed, although goalposts falling etc can be viewed as accidents. Purposly using older/bigger players just to win is a premeditated decision by a coach/director and in many cases accepted by parents on that team. In the case of an injury the litigation would be interesting because all involved would have known about the infraction. Again just commenting on the lack of age enforcement. Can't wait for the summer season and nonsense to start.

BEST post I have ever seen on this board. totally agree!!!!!

What is with all this gloom and doom? We need a travesty to start making a change? The Tournament Directors would have no problem accepting proof of age. It starts with providing the proof. Nothing is stopping us from getting our children their own Player Passes and volunteering them. Most of us are required to have US Lacrosse memberships anyway so why not ask them to provide a Player Pass service? Easier yet, have US Lacrosse distribute member ID #'s by age and require a copy of a Birth Certificate when registering. Tournament Directors can then make this a required field in the roster forms to cross reference.

From this point break the Tournaments up into 2 Categories:

YOUTH and HIGH SCHOOL

YOUTH
Age requirement plus player may not have attended any High School class. Age Groups should be yearly (U14, U13, U12, etc.). Age cutoff date as US Lacrosse has it now. Players can play up but never down.

HIGH SCHOOL
Grade based by year of graduation (2012, 2013, 2014, etc.) plus must have attended a High School class. Players can play up but never down.

The above is not a drastic change. Really more of minor revision to what we already have.

No system is fool proof but to say NOBODY will follow the rules until they are enforced is pessimistic. My boys have been on 7 teams with 4 different Clubs and not one has ever had an ineligible player.

Should 7th and 8th graders playing for their High School programs? That's a personal choice for the player, his or her parents and the school. It has absolutely nothing to do with Club Teams.

No doom and gloom.....REALITY.......Please forward the tournament/director which is going to require the information that you have laid out and then review/enforce the requirements. I think we all would like that info !!!!!! Unfortunately I dont think you will find one.

Please if you were in a real towm your kid would be lucky to made the 7th grade team.

REALITY is no one is going to do it for you. If you want it so bad then do something about it. Stop passing the buck.

I'm not saying to give up or shut up only that it is a process. Maybe BOTC can moderate the process. If it is only 10 people who are willing to petition a change it will not get too far. If it is a 1,000 people then I'd say there is a chance. Unfortunately anonymous only counts as one signature. As moderator, BOTC can then present the consensus to Club Directors and Tournament Directors for their feedback. The process will take time but at least the ball will be rolling. Soccer has their way, Baseball has theirs, Lacrosse needs its own.

IMO, the process starts with defining what we'd want enforced then we can discuss how it can be enforced. I think the US Lacrosse guideline missed the mark, at least for Long Island. I've offered an option as to what I think is viable. Anybody else care to get involved? No deadlines, just a discussion at this point.

BOTC already started these dscussions with the Long Island Metropolitan Lacrosse Foundation. Our interview and frank discussions with Harry Jacobs were posted in March 2012.

Advances and Movement on Player Passes

In essence, the Long Island community should not expect movement within this seasonal year (though July), but could start organizing inputs for LIMLF starting with the new seasonal year. BOTC would be happy to present any and all ideas submitted and attributed to LIMLF. Please e-mail any detailed points to cagesage@backofthecage.com.

What is the typical mix of a Uxx team? example: is a U13 team half 2018 half 2017?

Let's assume that we had a "pass system" in place and the cut-off date was August 1st.

Therefore, the U-age group system would range from August 1st of one year until July 31st of the next year.

Graduation years depend on the registration date of the kindergarden classes; let's say that December 1st is the cut-off date.

Therefore, the "older" players in the U-age system would be born between August 1st and December 1st. That covers four months.

So all things being equal, a U-age team is about 1/3rd "older" players and 2/3rds "younger" players. (Translation : A U/17 team would be 1/3rd High School Seniors and 2/3rds High School Juniors.)

Stack as many kids that make the cut-off, 1-2 younger who are the coaches kids and their dad thinks they are the next Rabil, and 3-4 older kids so that you can win as many tournament games as possible. Then deny that you had any older kids. In some cases borrow a few kids from another team in your organization.

Lol!!! That is the funniest post ever.... Reason being is its dead on.

True blue vs Gladiators today should be a good game

True Blue played Gladiators last Sunday already. Gladiators beat them in a competitive game.

It was the TB 8th grade team.

Not a game today - scrimmage/practice.

Is the TB 8th grade team not a good team?

True blue actually pulled out the win in the end.... And the gladiators I don't think even won a faceoff.

You are commenting on a scrimmage/practice as noted in the above right???

It was meant to be day for 2 programs trying to stay above the BS that plagues youth lacrosse. Even had pizza together afterwards. The coaches were refs and they didn't keep score. It was a win for the programs for getting the kids together. Met some nice parents and good kids. Leave it at that.

YES

Very well said. Both teams shuffled kids in and out to get them all on the field. I am sure both teams were short kids being a vacation week. That's not an excuse, just a statement. Let's keep it at that. Two good organizations, playing a scrimmage/practice and that's it. They ate pizza after and the kids interacted which is real nice to see. Both teams are winners!

Yes Chris is all about the kids, please

If this scrimmage\practice really took place and after they ate pizza together then these organizations have the right idea ITS ABOUT THE KIDS

Have to agree with this one if this event took place the directors of those teams should take a bow. Two smaller programs getting teams together to practice, scrimmage get better what a novel idea.

I know for a fact that it was a good time had by all. Kudos to True Blue and the Gladiators. The right idea indeed.

Wow- Visionary. An accurate assessment of talent. Not even close.

Any scores from weekend?

cage i thik that you are assuming that there is also a u16 - u15 - u14 ect. I think that what the original post was asking is assuming that like most lacrosse age based tournaments they have u15 and u13 and u11 so in that case he wants to know how many u12's would or should be on a u13 team -

McManus LOST to Wantagh town team 6-5

And the Red Sox lost to the Yankees yesterday after leading 9-0. So what! Teams have their ups and downs. Whatever team you or your kid is on experienced the same situation. Your post wouldn't be rediculous had you not emphasized the word lost.

I get your point, but we heard it was a tie. And your point was to take a shot at the express orange team, hope you feel better about yourself.

What makes you so sure it wasn't an Express parent who posted they lost to a town team??? Say what you want but that wasnt the only close game those teams have had. Why not just say the Wantagh team is a talented group of kids who play as a team?? That express team has great mids and a solid att. Just a good game.

It was a good game, Hotshots is a very good group of wantagh players for sure! Exp Orange has great mids solid attack, I agree with that also. And their defense is usually pretty strong also but their (Exp) starting goalie was in a sling on the sideline. It was a low scoring game.

"(Exp) starting goalie was in a sling on the sideline. It was a low scoring game." I dont see the connection (maybe I do).

Sounds like a nice job by the "back up" goalie.

Question: Does the back up goalie typically not play for this express team or do the goalies split their time?

I would think both goalies on the team would be very good and who played/didn't play shouldn't make that much of a difference. Sounds like both teams played a great game and it should be left at that.

MY son's team played the McManus team last month and the goalies split time. They each played a half.
Enough with the excuses of how the game was played out.

They also lost to rvc town team

HAD TO RESURRECT THIS GEM!!!

According to some Express parents on the sidelines if <<Player Reference Removed>> ever came off the field they would have a better chance to win

Every game Mcmanus is allowed to coach brings the four express owners down a notch, he has a new kid every game and a kid quits every week,team is a mess. Express owners need to step in now combine those two teams and run it with no parents coaching the team. Then they will win. Believe me people are talking about going TO True Blue, 91, fl$, next year. you might have numbers next year but not top players.

Combine what 2 teams? Express orange and white? Why would they do that?

Are you an Express parent fromthis team?

Is anyone familiar with 365lax? They look like they have some good programs and coaches. My son is interested in possibly getting more serious about lacrosse so I'm trying to explore some of the options in the Nassau County area. Any advice/recommendations would be appreciated. We are new to the boys lacrosse scene. Thanks.

They are a great org to break in with (I think out of Bethpage area) and make you feel very comfortable. The Michaelsen boys do a good job.

They do lots of clinics... All year round which is always an added bonus. Check out their web site and call Tom. He will definitley call you back.

Thank you for the information! I will definitely reach out to them.

Problem with parents coaching these travel teams are regardless of the coaches sons talent they are generally the faceoff kid, they are on man up, they are on the field with time running out. When they play poorly they aren't treated the same as kids whose parents are standing on the sidelines.

Coach McManus has been with th Express for % years now maybe you are the problem

Your so right Pat is the best at picking a team, then cutting kids and then puts them down. Ask the four kids that left already what they think about Pat

Rumor has it Channey is settinp up a game with another lacrosse team. For Mcmanus maybe they can get a win.

As a former parent that played for Pat, I felt the need to comment. Whoever wrote this last comment about him, You are an idiot! you have nothing better to do than speak bad about a coach? You are probably one of those loser parents that yells from the sidelines that never played a sport in your life, let alone lacrosse. Pat is a good guy that puts in the time. Like him or not, the kids do and have fun playing for him..isnt that whats important for 12 year olds? But you the loser will never get that. You are too wrapped up in the hatred and anger that seems to fester amongst all travel teams no matter where you play..
Lay off jacknut..if you feel that strongly about his abilities, approach him directly, not cowering behind your computer like the loser you are.

I dont have a kid in this grade/team, Dont know Pat, but be real it is not about having "FUN".

I wish people would call a spade a spade!

You can preach "fun" all you want and it should be a "part" of the equation but lets not lose sight of what/why parents spread $$ and put their sons on these teams; it is about making them better lacrosse players, learning (more than they currently know) and realizing the only way to do that is by playing the best competition you can. It is about putting a kid on a team so he can get better.

At 12 "Fun" is a "Bonus" that a good coach can bring to his stable of drills and techniques. Glad you say the coach does that, but I am not paying $$ for FUN!

Now, many comments have been made about those that have played HS or College. For those of us that did play in HS or College (whatever sport whatever level) why is it so wrong to push a child (8-12) to always play their best (whatever that ability level is). That is what is wrong with society. and really, do we need to say great job (good game) when they did a horrible job and the "bounces" just went their way for a postive outcome.

No!

We should be honest, and say just because "xyz" resulted in a goal or a win, the right thing to do would be to do "abc". Hold the boys accountable for what they do or dont do. Let them know on certain teams perfection is expected, because that is what is taught.

We dont push our kids hard enough to be the best they can be. I used to love that slogan the Army had.


The same in school:
Why do you put a child in an advanced placement class, not to have fun but to learn. To learn at the ability that they can (OR THE PARENT THINKS THEY CAN).


bottom line - I Cant wait for what this grade has ahead of them when the current 2022 is in 7th grade and taking your sons spot on Varisty because their parent pushed them to be the best they could.

It should be fun- because if it is not they will drop it like a hot potato. Have you ever seen a kid pushed to play when they do not want to but daddy wants them to???- no effort, no motivation, no progress.

I am not saying they should not work their hardest and strive for their best- but like anything in life- if you hate it, you will not stick with it and reach maximum potential. Let the kids have fun and play with the team they deserve to play with. Who wants to lose all the time, sit on the bench the majority of the game and feel poorly about their skills. That goes for academics as well- not everyone is a super star, but if they are motivated to work hard because they find it interesting or God forbid fun- they will do better.

OK, enough of the personal attacks on this guy Pat. As for the previous post about travel lax, I agree with most of what you said except the fun part. Lacrosse is a game and it should be fun at any level. If your in grade school, the game itself and practices are fun. Being part of a team is fun and all the stuff you do at tournaments between games - goofing off, mini stick games, etc - is fun. At the Division 1 level (yes, I played) it remains fun - just different. The camraderie on the team is the fun part. It is ultra competitive but what gets you on the practice field everyday is that it is enjoyable - it is a sport. Did you hear Quint Kessinich's comments about the Syracuse d-pole who dropped a pass for an easy goal on the doorstep? He said, in substance, the guy was going to get some real razzing on the bus ride home. Practical jokes like tape balls thrown at him with comments like "can you catch this". You know why, because it's fun. When you lose the fun part, it's not worth playing anymore.
Avoid early burnout - keep it competitive ( constructive criticisim is necessary in all parts of life - no pampering) but it is still a game.

Is having older kids play for you during tournamewnts so you can win part of the fun too?

There are kids who may be a lil older but they are all 7th graders. Maybe he grabs an out of towner or two here or there, no harm no foul..as long as your winning right?

Did fl$ add players late in the season or are they now playing some 8th graders? We (Gladiators) beat them Saturday but it was a surprisingly close game.

Definitely not, but unfortunately it is in the fabric of LI travel lacrosse. This topic has been beat to death. Bringing in ringers (older/same age) is cheating, period. My son's old program had the chutzpah to bring in a ringer for a tournery under the notion we were short players. Funny, my son and the rest of the 2nd and 3rd line mids were all there. They all could have moved up 1 line and we would have been fine. Instead they bring in some kid who is a year older, start him over the kids on the team! Did I mention he (ringer) brought a friend along for support. He also started and played while our kids sat. We "won" the tournament and yes, the picture went up on the web minus the ringers! I moved on right after that charade.

In case people out there didnt notice the 2015 hot Shotz team has beat Express Orange, tied Express Orange?? (dont really see a difference between the two teams, beat fl$, as well as many of the other teams in that age group. Way to go Wantagh Hot Shotz. The only difference between the two Express teams is the coaching. Korwan is a class act who understands a kids and parents situation when they have to choose between playing for Express or their Town team. Thats when a mans true colors come out.

2015 vs 2017 and you're thumping your chest? Something is wrong here. If you are a town team, great job but hit up some same age kids next time.

So a bunch of 9th graders beat a 7th grade team? Imagine if the Express 2017 was bragging about beating a 5th grade team? This board would explode!

mistake. The hotshotz are a 2017 team. not a 9th grade team.

Ok, then nice job!

Is there more than one 2017 Hotshotz team?

No

team seems to be coached very well

Anybody know anything about RECON U-15

Before responding, please know these questions are not directed at any individual club/program There is a lot of lacrosse experience and knowledge on this board. In addition to being helpful for LI parents and players it is a great read for non "hotbed" people looking to learn from others experience.

For an "Elite" travel team with 3 coaches (HC + 2 assistants) how many "Daddy" coaches are okay? Does it change your opinion if daddy does not coach his son's position? Assume daddy is lacrosse knowledgable

For an "Elite" travel team with 22 players (6 Defense, 9 Middies, 6 Attack and 1 Goalie) what should play time expectation be for the 2nd Attack and Defense lines as well as the 3rd Middie line? If you assume 22 minute running clock per half and 5 games per weekend.

How many minutes per game?
How many games should you get on the field?

Does this change if the 4th, 5th, 6th attack are very close to the 2nd/3rd?
What if there is a big drop off in talent?

I find with Dad coaches you either get coach kid ball or the coaches son gets treated like a red headed step child. My town team the coaches son actualy probably does not play enough. That being said, any travel team worth its salt will NOT have parent coaches. I think its huge mistake. A travel team can base play on talent or can do it by minutes regardless, as long as they are UP FRONT in the beginning

I saw at the JDRF a kid go from Defense to Attack. It was in the 8th grade division at Birch Lane School. He was a big kid so you couldn't miss him. He was arguing with his dad, who was the coach, about man down unit. Then about 5 minutes later he was playing lefty attack. They had around 25 kids on the sidelines. I would have been pissed about that one.

Daddy Coaches???
I love this line, you are either a good coach or not, end of conversation.
You think they say that about Danowski? Coach Desko?
Coaches simply need to be held accountable, some of these guys are extremely knowledgeable and when they have a kid on team they usually care more and whole team benefits. Not fair to paint them all with the same brush

expect, tough statement, depends on game situation.

For every 2 elite college coaches who happen to of had sons play for them, we have all seen hundreds of daddy ballers who look out for their son over the team and over developing the 20 other children they agreed to coach

Dino & Desko sons were/are both great players and Im sure they were as youth. So your example is a bad one. If your kid is a lesser talented player, u shouldn't coach. Otherwise typical agendas.

Please realize at the end of the day,Dad just cares about is own son. My kid for five years made the three attack coaches kids look great, and the coaches alway say we love your kid. Guess what now that it is time for trying out for different blue chip camps, etc, I find out there kids went and make the team, not one of them told me about it. Bottom line look out for your own kid. IN Lacrosse its every man for himself.

Well said, you need to take responsibility for the development of your own son. That's just a reality. Wether he's a potential D1 kid, or kid who just wants to keep playing and make the HS team you need to take control of things. No coach, in PAL, Travel or School really cares about your kid the way you do. If you think differently, your kidding yourself. Not saying there aren't dedicated coaches out there. However, there is no other place like LI when it comes to competition for lacrosse. It truly is dog eat dog. The sooner you understand this the better prepared you'll be to navigate this crazy sport for your son!

Couldn't agree more, well said, well spoken. Pay attention to everything, gather information constantly, and make the best decisions possible based on your end goal. You cannot be concerned about other peoples feelings. Trust me when I tell you there are almost no travel program directors out there (now that they are popping up all over) that will not sell out your kid for a better player. Loyalty in travel lacrosse has become nearly extinct. Thank god it still counts in the real world.

Loyalty? Sellout? These are tryout teams that strive to take the best kids each year. Want loyalty.. get a dog

I think what the person meant about the loyalty comment is that club directors/coaches don't stay LOYAL to some of the players for the season . The same players they pick during the try out (which is a waste of time & a $$ grab) process. Clubs look for "next best thing" and that makes parents look for "the next best thing". Vicious cycle, bad deal but a reality.

The long island lax feat is going to be very interesting in this age group. Should be fun.

Any scores from this weekend at Forsberg?

Good game between true blue and fl$

Tristate brackets posted.

Gladiators beat the heck out of everyone it looked like.

Brine middle school rosters posted. Very decent collection of players from all over long island listed. See nationallacrosseclassic.com

Yes, LI is represented very well! Gonna be tough to beat a meshed group of 91, Express, fl$ and many other good players in that impressive middle school age on the Island. www.nationallacrosseclassic.com

Agreed very deep Talent Pool in both the 8th grade and 7th grade classes

L.I has a great shot at the national title again. Maryland also competitive with collection of FCA, Looneys, etc. Nice to see so many L.I towns represented on that roster.

Please give me a break, the only kids that know about the try outs are coaches kids and there hand picked friends.

have to disagree, got multiple emails from the directors as they were light going into the tryouts. I'm just not sure anyone cares enough to try out.

We didn't know anyone, made the team. They have a real good site on the world wide web (not hard to find). Brine has been doing this all star team for a few years. Pay attention, do your research & stop crying.

what are you talking about that know one cares there was over a 160 kids at the long island tryout.

You are correct, and another 50 or 60 boys at the SECOND LI tryout! But "no one cares". lol

there were more at the express tryout. Money grab to pad parents egos

The typical line from folks on this site "money grab". What isn't a money grab??? Than some of you rip clubs because they charge for a try out, you get angry because clubs like 91 & Express make big coin, wake up NOTHING IS FREE. I guess your kid didn't make the Brine team.

Great collection of players on the roster list. Bring it home LI.

Agree!

Some guy told me is kid made the Brine team, that told me everything I needed to know about the selection committee.A jOKE.

The Brine team is a great experience. Why all the anger? It's a few days of high-level coaching and very competitive games. If nothing else, its fun for the boys to have some local pride and compete against and meet kids from around the country. Its probably half the cost of most camps. Chill out buddy.

lol, well said! Oh the envy!

I consider myself up on the coming and goings of the youth lacrosse word, but I missed this one. Next year.

sounds like some serious sour grapes. My kid made the Long Island team as a 7th grader and I am extremely proud of him and all of the other 7th graders that made it. There was some serious competition at the tryout. Going to be a great experience for the boys and maybe a once in a lifetime thing for some of them. Enjoy the ride while it lasts cause you never know when your gonna have to get off.

Many of these kids are better than 2016. Attack especially.

They should at least post something on this site well in advance if they want to get the word out.

After the results of this past weekend there can be no arguing the Turtles are the best 2017 team in the country. At Crabfest they dismantled all the teams they played including an 11 goal win against the Maryland Crabs and a 11 to 1 win over a Laxachucettes team that played hard at the LI Laxfest 2 weeks ago. There are about 5 teams bunched together for next best the Baltimore Breakers, the Crabs, Express, TB and Team 91. I would give 91 the nod as the top of that heap as they have beaten all the others, but on any given day that mix and some of the other very good teams such as Laxachucettes, The Gladiators, or the other 2017 Express team could up end anyone.

STEPS 2017 beat both LI Express Orange McManus and LI Express Piranhas (Piranhas by a lot) at the LI Pridefest. Where do they rank?

You realize you are talking about 12 year old boys, right? Do you want a cookie?

I hear the Turtles are going to Finland to play the US U19 team. Really, they don't duck anyone.

This person is talking about 12/13 year old boys on a 12/13 year old boys thread. You stalking it for other reasons?

What team is your little boy on? Did you contact them for a game? Just another anonymous voice contributing to this "useful" conversation. Enjoy whatever trip you are on.

Thats very funny. I guess a lot of those Steps kids were "left back" . I don't know what you gain by playing older kids on a supposed 7th grade team. If it makes you feel better good for you.

Always the older kid excuse when a LI Express team loses. Not one kid on the team is "older", all just finished 7th grade. Just good, thats all. So much whining when you lose. Have never heard oh they were just good and beat us today, always they had to be older.

Also, there is a reason the STEPS team is "2017". Go back to math class if you think they are older, just better.

Oh yeah, because Noone ever stacks their team with older kids and calls themselves a 2017 team, Or even better, the "our kids go to Pre K" excuse. I was at the game and the Steps kids were clearly bigger, faster and stronger. Very good team yes, but I cannot almost guarantee a large majority of the kids would not stand up to the US Lacrosse age rules. Whatever makes you feel better.

All are US Lacrosse eligible. You are wrong, but pretty persistent in your argument. Just accept that your team lost to a better team for once and stop looking for excuses as always. Is this what you teach your son? Look for an excuse every time something adverse happens? Also, STEPS is not the first 2017 team I have seen with "big kids", maybe we grow them bigger in NJ, but I guarantee all are US Lacrosse rules eligible. End of story.

Never said they werent a better team, I was pretty clear when I said they were bigger, faster and stronger. Pretty sure the point is that I would say that most of the boys on the Steps team were 14 years old or on the late side of 13. One year makes a huge difference in sports, that year between 13 and 14 is a huge growth year. Seems to be a trend these days of holding a kid back a year so he can excel in academics and sports. Yes you have a very good team but I wouldnt go bragging so much how you knocked around a bunch of 12 and 13 year olds. Like to see how you would do against a strong 2016 Long Island team that is more age appropriate for you to play........Good Luck

You talk about what people teach their kids? Ill break it down for you,

1- if you are leaving your kid back to gain advantage you are teaching the biggest SHORT CUT move there is. So get off your high horse.

2-You "don't grow them bigger in NJ", its freaking Jersey, not Texas.

3-Also, you beat HALF a 2017 Express Orange team, 5 or 6 kids where in MD. and I think a couple of 2017 Express Piranha kids were in MD also.

4-Your Steps team don't rank because they don't play in any strong tournaments or in any "AA" brackets. So stop making noise.

5- If you played a few 2016 LI teams with 14 year olds (like your Steps team) . Go play 14 year olds like 2016 Express Orange or Blue, go play 2016 Team 91 Orange- your boys would get rocked.

6- Dont reference US Lacrosse, they are a joke.

Didnt Steps beat the 2017 McManus team in a Braveheart? I know for a fact their were 4-5 kids missing from their team at the Brine competition in Maryland.

Id like to personally congratulate the Coach and/or Director of the Bandits lax program, (i think from Philly)

At the Tri State tourney their rising 8th "AA" team got their butts kicked in the first round ending up 1-4 in pool play making them the 14th seed I believe.

Magically the next day they came out and kicked everyones butts and made it to the semifinals. Was interesting to me how none of the kids that played on Saturday played on Sunday and how much bigger the team was on Sunday.

Good job guys, hope your proud of yourselves.

You are a total joke and just plain wrong. Oh, "we were missing kids" - please. What a lame excuse. You are also really stubborn. You conclude the kids are older because they are bigger? You have no idea what you are talking about. Lastly, I highlight again, always, always excuses when you lose to a better team. We were missing kids, your kids were older/stayed back - how lame you sound. Oh yeah, and now US lacrosse is lame according to your response but you were the one who brought that up as the guidepost in your last response.

2016 Orange smoked STEPS at the Winter Nationals on their home court in Mepham, NJ.

wrong grade bozo

You are correct. It was in a Braveheart. But I don't want to hear the missing kids excuse. STEPS was missing 3 kids as well.

Obviously there are multiple posters. I think we can end this argument with a simple question. How many 14 year olds or very late 13 yr olds are on the Steps "2017" team? Long Island teams typically are 13 years old at the 2017 grad year, some 12 year olds as well. Oh and sorry to burst your bubble but common sense would dictate that if a kid is much bigger than all the other kids hes usually older, obviously its not always the case but most times its a good indication. We lose to better 2017 teams all the time here on Long Island, teams we know are definitely 7th grade age appropriate teams and there are no complaints. It wasnt just one team that noticed the obviously many older kids on your team, it was multiple teams. So end the argument already and answer the question.

wrong age Krusty

Obviously if you are a 14 year old you have no business on a 2017 team. If you are you were either held back or left back. Ive seen 12 year olds competing at the 2017 level, obviously kids who could have been "held" back the extra year. In any case you can enjoy it while it lasts because you cant hide in High School where Long Island lax dominates Jersey anyways.

lmao, great point!

You are correct,

Teams in 2017 that battle each other all year on LI-
-91
-fl$
-Express Orange
-Express Piranhas
-Gladiators
-Turtles (but they play up)

Who does your "Steps"team play during the year in NJ?

Word on the street, that Kormem"s 2017 team is breaking up,

word on the street is wrong

Reposted from the Tournaments Forum in the wrong thread

does anyone know who won the Yale 2017A bracket

Real simple - 0 14 year olds, mostly 13 year olds and a few 12 year olds. I am done and exhausted from this argument, particularly since you will never accept Express Orange and Piranhas got beat by a team of 12/13 year olds who happen to be "bigger" (and better). And I don't want to hear you were missing kids - please. STEPS was missing 3 kids as well.

The team only plays in two summer tournaments because it supports the town team model and the boys play 3 summer tournaments with their town teams, and the two with STEPS.

Gladiators

I would say probably the toughest competition in the country at the 7th grade level.

Is it true that the Gladiators beat the 91 orange at Yale this past weekend and also won the championship game to give the Gladiators a 4-0 record.

I don't know but I buy that. 91 very good but more than beatable. Gladiators are very good. LI 2017 competition is top tier

ok well then if thats true, i am truly impressed. They were a very good team and ill be the first to say that we lost to a better team. Good luck the rest of the summer

Yes, but more importantly both teams and parents displayed great sportsmanship and represented LI lacrosse well.

Gladiators lost to a few LI teams at Tri-State. Sounds like they did better at Yale.

It seems to be great Teams in 2017. With the Turtles in a different level. Team 91, Gladiators , True Blue and Express Orange seem to play each other tough, and have all beaten each other.

Yes, the Gladiators 2017 beat 91 orange at Yale. 4-0 is correct

thanks a lot, your team too

Only loss for Gladiators at Tri- State to LI team was to True Blue which was a good game. Only other loss at tournament was to Madlax Friday night. Number 4 seed after pool play and beat Team LI to face TB in second round of playoffs. All LI teams represented well at Tri State.

Tri State was a serious grind. It was hot as [lacrosse] and the competition was fierce. Everyone was beating everyone. The Baltimore Breakers "survived" and beat 91 Orange in the final by a goal i believe.

Tri state was a marathon, brutal heat, good competition. The Breakers won on a last second goal, play this tournament in that heat 9 more times and there could be 4 or 5 diffrent teams coming out as champs

This information is incorrect--Gladiators did not play True Blue in playoffs on Sunday.

What the heck went on here? I copied this from another place:

"I am a mom who has a son in highschool and I usually just read the forms to get lax information. I was at this tournament this weekend and had to respond because what I saw on this field was so shocking and sad for the sport of lacrosse. I just read the post on the Tenacious Turtles website and I am pretty shocked at the accounts that were described on the site. I happened to be at the field where the turtles were playing. A friend of mine was telling me how good they were in the Young Guns tournament so I decided to stop and watch. I saw the coach from the other team call the stick check. It was questionable if the stick was under 40 inches or not. It had a lot of tape at the bottom of the stick and I am sure the ref had to guess where the end of the stick really was. What the coach of the Turtles does not tell you in his post on the website is that the reason he got the 3 min penalty is because he stormed the field, anc confronted the ref. No matter what the whole stick check fiasco was about-the coach of the turtles team showed the worst behavior I have seen a lacrosse tournament in a long time. And to write on his team website that he thinks it was all done on purpose with the ref, coach and Aloha Tournaments being in collaboration is crazy!

The Turtles are good and it is a shame that players in U13 have to witness that type of behavior from adults. It took away from fans admiring a great lacrosse game.

I try and teach my children to respect their coaches, teammates and opponents on the field no matter what. It is only a game.

I hope as the summer youth lacrosse season winds down for these teams-coaches take a moment to gain perspective on what this all means-especially at a U13 level.

And to the Turtle website post-that post only makes you look more crazy then you did storming across the field."

Turlte website says no other LI teams were their so I guess we'll never know.

That was in reference to the Tri State tournament not this past weekend. This past weekend they were at different tournaments.

I guess the little man was going crazy.

Is it so shocking that Baltimore refs are biased towards NY teams? Been down there our fair share and the coaches all tell the kids to expect the refs not to call much for them if anything at all. A coach questions a call and gets a technical foul? Seems pretty simple to measure the stick and show both teams coaches. Anyone who has played down there has gotten the business. Other tournaments have head officials in place in case of a situation like this, seems like a good idea. unless of course your from MD

I would think you know the answer to that question...

Sounds like the way non Long Island teams feel when they come to play against LI teams in tournaments in LI. If its a close game, the flags start flying against any non LI team. Its called home team advantage and it happens in every sport-human nature on the refs part I guess.

LOL. I was there, and the Turtles coach acted like a lunatic. He freaked out over a stick check and is a horrible role model for his kids. Guess we know who protested when the Turtles and Express 2016 Orange were slated to play each other at the Shootout before they agreed on that bogus split of the championship.

He freaked out because the stick was legal and the ref didn't have the balls to make the right call. what has our society come to when you can wrong someone and just expect them to sit there and take it. The refs protected each other, the tournament director protected the refs all out of fear of reprisal. what lesson is that to the boys, when they are wronged by someone of authority just take it, maybe if your good they will apologize in the parking lot after the game. Teach your boys to stand up for themselves when they are in the right not roll over. That lesson worked well as PSU

Comparing a stick check and PSU....You are a MORON !!! Wear your little "Daddy Turtle" shirt and make excuses for bad behavior by your coach.

who's the lunatic, a coach calling a stick check in a U-13 game or the one questioning the wrong call? A wrong call that a formal apology was given after the fact.

You don't get it do you......there is no reason for an adult to act the way the coach did !!! It was 1 call !!! Grow up little "turtle daddy".

There is a right way and a wrong way to go about things. If your idea of the right way is to go screaming on the field like a lunatic and have to be escorted off, then it says alot about the make up of the people associated with this team. Anyone can act gracious and polite when things are going your way, adversity brings out the true nature of people.

Wow how things can get blown out of proportion.

You are both correct. But there is always a suitable manner in which to act when you are a mentor and coach to get your point across.

and if that manner is not responded to there are alternatives to the method in which you must fight for what is right, in whatever context you are working in life youth sports school parenting.

You think there's a pattern......oh yes there is !!! His sense of entitlement/arrogance is off the charts. Embarrassing.

Even if the ref made the wrong call (and I have no idea if he did), that's part of sports. Yo can't do anything about it, but you can act like a human being. It will be fun watching the Turtles implode because of their entitlement issues. This guy is a piece of work.

Baltimore guys talking about entitlement!!! THAT is AWESOME!

I'm not from Baltimore or Maryland. Do you really think these kids don't have a sense of entitlement after all the publicity and free gear they've gotten over the past few years? Combine that with a nightmare coach, and these guys are going to implode once they reach HS and get beaten by better players/teams.

How else to you explain how they refused to play Express 2016? If you are going to play up, man up and face the music. But no, these kids' egos can't handle it.

With all due respect you need to get your facts right about that game. You seem computer savvy just email the director at boys@liexpresslacrosse.com for the proper details.

Heard Tonight is a charity event in Hills for autism, that mike Chanenchuck brough a stacked team with kids from 5 different organizations and with older kids to play in the 2017 division.

LOL. Why don't you state on this public forum the reason why those two teams didn't play each other for the champioonship? Other Express teams have played each other for championships before - why not this time? I eagerly await your resopnse.

All were rising 8th graders, not one older kid. T
Don't hate just appreciate

The express team at the charity event was most definitely all 2017 kids. There were no older kids on that team. They were very good, no doubt.

That team was fantastic. Some well known players. Very good team the 2017 express team at the hills autism tourney. They were all 2017. No older kids. Very good lacrosse team, no doubt.

I heard it's ALL 2017 kids, That's true. Mostly Express Orange & Express Piaranna kids & a couple from other clubs. Wow, the team is no joke. Big, fast & smart lacrosse players.

Feel like the idiot you are yet? If not just drop your head and run full force into the nearest wall you see. That should help

Pretty obvious it was Express 2016 Orange that bailed. Everything to lose and not much to gain by playing. Turts don't duck anyone, including 2016 Orange.

They are not older,just held back.Ha Ha

Can we wait until they play a real team.

It was ridiculous but they were definitely rising 8th graders from Exp, fl$, Shotz. Everyone knows these kids by name. How and why did Channy get a group of standout players from different clubs together for some random tournament in July?? Something doesn't smell right.

Actually it's true, and we can thank one person for that.......

Let's set the record straight on this issue. The coach of the Turtles went to the 2016 Orange coaches and asked to not play the game. He said that his player were exhausted from the previous game. The coach of the Turtles actually thanked the 2016 Orange parents for being understanding about not playing the game. The 2016 Orange players and coaches wanted to play the Turtles. 2016 Orange has played them and beaten them every time they have asked. So enough with this issue. The boys have gotten over it already. Why cant you??

Were they all held back when they played for McMaess and Corwan just last week? And the hotshots and fl$ boys- where they "held back"? No
They were not. Should be interesting to see this new power express 2017 group play better comp.

Yes it's a shame.Good parent's and great bunch of kids.

How many 98 kids on that team. answer 4

Do you think we are stupid that you do not know how to spell McMANUS.

I could definitely see a team made up of the best players from the teams (express/fl$ etc) being good. Is this the plan for 2013? It seems the 2012 summer season is about to end.

If it is true that Korwins team is breaking up, that is a shame. From my perspective, that guy put his heart into that team and is always a gentleman during competition.

ok so if this is the official story of what happened - they "ducked" a team because they were exhausted. No shame because they were playing up, but remove the "we don't duck anyone" slogan.
My fifth grade team was "really" exhausted at tri-state but we played all our games.

For the record, there are two older kids from McManus team and one from Korwans. I watched the games last night, that is going to be a very, very good team.

Cant get nothing be you! Sharp cookie!

That express 2017 power group that played in Hills last night was for real. We watched them, wow. Big kids and everyone is fast. Does anyone know if they keep that together with chanencuk coaching it?

That 2017 express team that played at the autism event was insane. If this team sticks together and continues to play, they could be very difficult to beat come next summer. Unselfish lacrosse. They were fun to watch.

Team was very impressive, great face off kid, insane attack, intense presure defense, top notch coaching and a goalie that let up zero!!!!! WOW hope they stick and we haven't discussed middies

Please tell me the level of your competition, I dont think you will beat 91, gladiators and true blue.

"stick"?!
That crew is doomed. There is NOT ONE TEAM which changes lineup more often, nor a club more reputed for rotating rosters. Been there...

It seems that the unlikely pairing of the two phrases, "keep it together" and the name mentioned above, would doom the situation.

That is the pattern. Prepare new orange team with best players from other teams and make tryouts a sham. Any current orange players not involved in this hills tourney are toast.

The Express team that at the Autism event was a joke. They bring kids from 5 different teams to an autism event??

That is not right.

They will just have fake tryouts in the fall, collect some more money, and the kids won't even have a chance to make the team. Doug something like this is unfair to the kids who made the Express A team, and messes up the integrity of the game.

Channy should be ashamed what he did.

I remember reading last year about a similar situation where MC put together a team with kids from the Express and other travel programs. Now I am reading the same thing again. I have a few questions:

1. What tournament on LI did these kids play in?
2. Was it a top notch tournament? If not, why are they putting together an "All-Star" team for a local LI tournament?
3. "It takes two to tango." Why are parents of players on other travel programs allowing their kids to play for MC? Where is there loyalty to their own program?

2017's will be rising freshman next summer. Allow yourself to think about what that means.... Many of the players will be thinking about where they want to go to HS. With that said, many will want to play for the coaches of those High Schools during the summer before their freshman year....

Are you drunk? 2017 kids are going into 8th grade.

Going to try and change the mood on here a bit. let me be the first to say that I thoroughly enjoyed this past season of lax on Long Island. Despite all the nonsense, (which the parents and coaches create) the level of competition at the 7tth is fantastic. For the most part all the parents behave and thhe kids show good sportsmanship. Let's not let the few taint the many. As a parent of a 2017 Express team kid, I am thankful my son gets to compete at this level, and I look forward to many years of great lax. We have the best lacrosse in the country, let's enjoy it,

Can you not read!!!! He said "next summer"...They are going to 8th this fall and will be rising Freshman NEXT SUMMER!!!

Answers:

1. It was a Lax for Autism event at HHH east high school
2. They played a West Islip town team and the Outlaws and they destroyed both of them. Why he did it is a whole different story!
3. Loyalty? Ha that's a joke, no such thing anymore, it's every kid and every parent for himself,
4. MC had enough talent between the 2017 Orange and Piranhas, he didn't need to bring in outside kids.


3.

You are exactly correct.

I guess the parents on the other teams were not happy with the team they were on. Don't be a hater, the kids will leave and try out for different teams because the parents feelings will get hurt because they all want to be on Orange teams. Bottom line if your kid can't get on the team it's because his level of play doesn't get him there. This is not PAL where everyone is equal. I heard the new express team is going to be called the Express Sharks. They crushed the travel team from Huntington the Outlaws best team Black. Those kids will now try out for the Sharks and everyone will continue to cry. This is not town LAX its travel. Welcome to Competetive youth LAX

But they will. That is the Express way. The orange teams start out the year with 20 kids or so and end up with 30 by the time the summer is over. Take a look at the 2016 team if you need more proof. How many kids were added to the roster during the year? If your kids is not one of the top players at his position, he will be replaced. You will start to see his playing time diminish or be cut all together. That is the writing on the wall for him. Find somewhere else for him or be on the white team next year.

I know all teams are looking to improve from year to year but most will stick with the roster during the year and make changes at tryouts. Making an Express Orange team is an accompishement but the downside is they are always looking to add players and your kids will spend the entire year "on the bubble".

You know nothing about 2016. People said "oh MC is adding players and booting Some" this was early in the season and didn't happen. 2 Kids were added, that was directly due to some Kids who had conflicts with the HS. They were good enough to let the coaches know the HS coach was a problen for some Tournaments. Which worked out good because we lost 2 Kids to injuries and we ended up needing everyone! Oh who won the fl$ 3D tournament? (short players) Bottom line kids come to tryouts because they want to be on the best teams, you can't argue that. No parent has a gun to their head being forced to sign the Express. THEY WANT IT

Loyalty..ur kidding right..look past the lacrosse, this isnt about lax, its about money. why do u think he told the parents that it will be a significant amount of money to play..the number being thrown around is $3-4k per kid. take that from 25 kids, $100k team, you gotta love that huh..Channy getting richer buy the day...You have to give credit to his minions who put this baby together, one or two dads with some emails and phone numbers from the express, fl$, Hot Shots , Garden City..And what is left over in the wake of this baby, tons..Kids will sail off with this Sharks team and be happy right? never looking back to say hey, i had something good were i was. And the guy who helped me get to this team or this program, forget him, he got left behind..and wait..it gets better, some of these kids who jettisoned out of their teams , will all of a sudden be on the bubble to make the sharks next year, because mikeys minions found the next best middie or attackman...

Are there anymore tournaments or practices set for the express sharks team?

Congratulations. What teams were there?

Checkmate Sharks???

2017's are going into 8th grade this fall. Now read slowly... What grade will they be entering after next summer's lax season. That would be 9th. So this fall they are trying out for a rising Freshman team. These teams at a certain club will be coached by, and looked at by coaches from some Catholic High Schools. Do you get it now???

You got some bad info. MC never told the parents it was going to cost a boatload of money. Not true. The $3000 or $4000 a team is another complete lie. You sound very bitter, you must've been attacked by a great white or mako in the past (those are Sharks).

See below:
http://www.t7sports.com:8080/2005/k158524.htm

2017 fl$ in 3d results: won by fl$
http://www.t7sports.com:8080/2005/k158525.htm

You are bragging about THAT tournament? There weren't any decent 2016 teams attending that one. LOL.

I think it was you with the bad info. MC told all the parents there would be a "significant" financial investment for the kids that were chosen. They are planning to do speed and agility training, box lacrosse and team practices. If you don't think this is also motivated by money you need to wake up. Yes the kids they picked are very talented, but I hope the parents have their checkbooks ready.

This was a onetime charity tournament event, the kids practiced a couple of times. I was there when MC addressed the parents, there are no guaranties this team is going forward, no guaranties the players would be staying and no mention of any type of financial commitment. Everything being said is pure speculation and rumors. my son was asked to play at this event, the players and coaching were very good but there was nothing discussed about going forward

They have practice today, why didn't you mention that.

Sounds familiar. That was last year's story line as well.

Practice for what? The season is over, you need a better source for information.

And the year before that. It's the express way. Shows a lot of class to show up at a charity event with this team.

Congratulations fl$! I've heard a lot of good things about this program. Question: was this the same group that played as fl$ 1 at the Crimson Lax tournament in Boston a couple of weeks ago? Was the roster the same? A 2017 CT Chargers parent. Thanks.

Its more of training than a practice, which is today thats true.

They are practicing today, that's a fact. MC has something going on, bet on it.

I was there at the indoor place at the 1st meeting for this group. If your going to build a super strong team like this Sharks team you NEED to train and expect to spend money in the off season. Did Channey stress that there will be a huge expense - no.

Good friend on that team,12:30 today practice. That is a fact.

All information is on a need to know basis. If you don't know about practice, it can only mean one thing.

BTW, what's the obsession with the fish names? Barracudas, Piranhas, Sharks. Maybe everyone else is supposed to be scared or are these top secret code names for teams that are under development for next year? I think you should follow the trend set by the Tenacious turtles and name them something kinder and gentler...how about the Rambunctious Rabbits or the Precocious ‘Possums.

Long Island Express is from LI. Long Island is an ISLAND. Therefore its surrounded by WATER. What lives in water? Barracudas, Piranhas, Turtles (sometimes) and SHARKS. lol

No huge expense until next year. The fee goes up by $8.5K (the yearly tuition to St. Anthony's)

Wow, you busted out the dictionary on this one huh, hope you didnt hurt yourself

But only sharks are native to LI waters. How about naming the teams after local species such as Flounders, Fluke, Sea Robins, or Weakfish?

Why not refer to things more indigenous to Long Island? Like the Tat Sleeve Tigers. Or Magnificient Mullets.

How about the obnoxious parents or the ignorant fools. We have plenty of those

now now, sounds like someones boy didn't get invited - Express Sharks will work fine.

Yes it is the same team No the fl$ roster does not change in season but a few of the boys had a conflict with an onerous high school coach who runs their town team program and threatens them with never playing again - so they did not make the trip to Harvard. We are looking forward to bringing some better competition to our next meeting.
Thanks for your well wishes. fl$ Parent

Congratulations to you, hope it works out. It's all well and good until MC decides your son is no longer useful then kicks him to the curb like he does to everyone else. Oh and by the way, make sure you bring cash or your checkbook

Its my son's responsibility to make sure he shines all the time. So if he gets "kicked to the curb" by any coach, its my kids fault - not any coach! Its called accountability and its taught in my home to my kids. We don't live by the "oh son, the world is against you!" way of life. And Ill use my checkbook, because I realize nothing of value is free.

"because I realize nothing of value is free."

hook, line and sinker.......

teaching accountability- free
teaching loyality- free
teaching respect- free

any value to those lessons?

Your child may be replaced based on simple affiliation, still his fault?

I already know there's one kid who most likely will be on the team next year who wasn't at your coming out party last week. Then there's the kid or two who shows up to try outs that they will want to add. Time to make some popcorn and watch the excitement. LOL.

I used my check book today for my evaluation with MC at the new indoor facility in Syosset.

Priceless...

Is the Express (or MC in this case) suppose to train kids for FREE? Your crazy. My nephew plays for 91 and they do a lot of clinics that you HAVE TO PAY MONEY FOR ALSO! These men are RUNNING A BUSINESS!!!!

As for as your silly "Hook line and sinker" comment, my son is happy playing for the Express and he is developing very well as a player & he HAS learned loads from MC. Why do u care? Why is it your business how i spend MY money? My son has played for the Express for 3 years and has had MC as his coach for 2 of those 3 years and has learned, had a lot of fun and he PLAYS! And, we never saw a kid removed from the team during the year, your a bitter & a liar. Thats priceless!

Evaluation? Wow...........................

We never said removed during the year. It's starts during the year. Maybe a new player is brought in or their playing starts to get reduced. You'll know what's going on when it starts to happen.

Your kid plays because you hand him the money. And you and your wife think he is god. I am so sick of you suck ups.

He is simply playing off the parents fear that little Johnny may not get recruited to a D1 school or get any playing time at a certain catholic HS unless they join the Express. And of course, the overly obsessed parents go for it almost every time.

Your never going to change peoples minds. For some reason he actually has people believing he cares about their kids. Nothing could be further from the truth.......

Jealousy takes too much energy. Have a great day!!

Jealousy? LMAO............

Wow

Right on the money!

Why would I be jealous, my kid is on orange and we do no extra paid training.You should be jealous of me. Training is in back yard and a bucket balls. Teach your kid that.

Hey how did the teams do at Stowe?

I don't think MC is pretending to care about the kids or pledge any type of loyalty to the parents. He wants to create a phenomenal 8th grade team wearing his Express brand. It's all about ego and business. So if you know the deal and your kid is along for the ride, wiil he be a tougher, better lacrosse player as a result? That is the decision a parent has to make.

Yeah how did the boys do at Stowe. I haven't been able to follow.

This is the new express business model the summer before the kids go into 8th grade if his teams are not up to par. For the last three years, these teams have not been up to the express standard so it's full year of recruiting in an attempt to build these teams. It's an all out blitz before the other teams catch up and pass them. They are not the only game in town any more and the foot steps are getting louder and louder.

Both 2017 teams played well. McManus lost to True Blue in the Finals and the Korwan team had a good weekend... in the last game they beat a real good Top Gun team from New England.

Piranhas 4-1, lost once Saturday and came back Sunday to beat same team in playoff game
McManus 4-1, lost in Championship to True Blue

Doesn't really matter anymore, many moving on..

McManus went 4-1 lost in championship game to True Blue 3-2
Piranhas went 4-1 beat Mass Top Necks 6-4 in 3 vs 4 seed.

Pretty good assesment of the situation. Its just the way the man goes about his business thats the problem. Its a cuthroat backstabbing culture with a backdrop of money hanging in the air.....

Sad really..........

You hit it on the nose.

Whats sad?

I really dont understand whats sad about it.Its a business, your right. The better the team he puts together the better his brand will look. The Season is now over and for the kids who were asked to play, good for them.I know that MC and JL are great coaches and if the parents of these kids dont mind paying for the training,since it is off season, i really dont see what all the excitement is about.It can only make your child a better player.If your child wasn't asked to play, stop complaining about it,and do something about it.

A post thats accurate, fair & logically on this board? Thats refreshing! I agree with you completely.

Easy to take that position when your child was "picked" especially when you take into account that the selection process was a joke, let me know if you still feel that way after you pay a few grand and your child still gets kicked to the curb because someone made a phone call to get their son on the team.

THis makes sense to me too... and my kid was definitely not picked. It is what it is- and if my kid wants to be able to be chosen in the future- he'll need to really work hard to make himself seen and known. The same thing happens in college recruiting- your kid may make a school- but then a new freshman comes along or a transfer and knocks him down. I do not want my kid to go and cry about it- I want him to work harder. And then sometimes life is not easy and no matter how hard you work and how good you are- you just do not make it. So pick yourself up off the floor and move on- another opportunity will present itself. I do not want my kid to go crying and moaning every time he thinks he has been overlooked or left out. That builds no character- at least none that I'd want to see in the "real world".

I think that if you were given the opportunity to play in that tournament last week, you would have said yes, am i right? I also have paid for training for my son in the past.I like to think that it may have helped him. It is up to the parent to decide whether training is making a difference in your child's ability.If my son gets" kicked to the curb" because someone else made a phone call to get there son on, then my son didn't deserve to be there in the first place.The directors can only afford you the opportunity for training. It is up to you,as a parent to decide if the training is helping your child.The directors are running a business. Any smart business man will never turn away a willing client.

Could not have said it better, thank you for honesty.

It's absolutely amazing how some people just don't get it. No one said anything about teaching our kid to whine everyone time he gets left out. It's more about treating people fairly and doing the right thing by 12 and 13 yr old kids. You know there is value in teaching your child to stand up and Fight for what's right. Or do we just say it is what is and lay down and take it every time you get wronged?

I am quite sure the best kids arent getting kicked to the curb but those that are marginally great (usign term loosely).

So yes sometimes your best isnt good enough, teach them that now and see how things pan out. Hopefully they will fight to not be the next one picked. or more importnatly to be the best they can be.

When you and your friend are running from a bear remember you only have to uut run your friend.

It was simply a weak tourney. Common knowledge. the teams which are mentioned probably should've met up locally to play. are they going to that North Dakota tournament next?

What about a kid that was asked and is parent's can't afford it, because they have other kids to take care of. Like paying for college, paying tutors to bring the kids grades up. How do you think those parent's feel when they tell there kid he can't be on that team and he knows he is good enough to be there. that is the decision we have to make and it stinks. When money rules a youth sport that is a problem not a lesson.

Tough decisions when finances are involved. There are other places to play, places that aren't backing you into a corner to pay for '"training".

Talent and money influence many sports. Look at golf, you can't excel if the money isn't there to support fees and instructors. Many young golf prodigies go to school at golf academies instead of attending "normal" schools. Very expensive.

Let's assume some things-
Let's assume this isn't about money and in a way to serve the bottom line of an organization or a certain indoor training facility that is owned by people personally involved in said organization.
Let's assume this isn't a question of talent and many of those chosen were given no greater opportunity than those not selected.

So now money and talent are removed as issues

Why form this team mid July, 2 weeks before tournament season was over for the current teams? Why form this team without advising any of the existing coaches?

This isn't an issue of envy, it is an issue of courtesy and respect. While we can appreciate that our boys wiill grow into men and face all the challenges in the world, competition in youth sports can be done in an open informed tryout. Had this taken place in September this team would be conversation, not a controversy

This has been a problem for a long time. Come U15, players and parents align themselves with the best teams for their kids to excel. You can not take away from the success of the express program. They have placed more kids in college than anyone else. This should be no suprise to anybody or any program. Until somebody can give the kids the same chances the express can, good for them to making the move to help themselves. I am sure if a player gets interest from virginia, unc or duke they should say no because they must take the whole team. This is the real world move on

And again, to those that can't follow a simple discussion. It is NOT what happened, it IS when and how.

To your point, I guess the Chaminade education and program experience had nothing to do with college opportunities.

It doesn't matter when it happened because it has been happening for a long time. The players played after the season and no one missed a game for there summer teams. It is now about their future . Get over it the good players who have worked hard deserve the be rewarded

Can't say I agree with you. It was a great place to play, the weather was perfect, and there was so much to do besides lacrosse. Don't knock it until you try it.... Really, what tournament on Long Island was really strong? I understand that we have some really good teams here, but at some point you need to see what's out there. You must get tired of playing the same teams here?? That is the reason why you are seeing most of the really good teams go other places to play....

Should we go to Florida, play sub-par teams and claim to be National Champions.

That's up to you. I just believe this should be about the whole experience when it comes to travel lacrosse. The experience for your child, his or her teammates, and your families.

Absolutely absurd comments from someone who obviously has zero handle on the situation. Before you get all high and mighty you might want to consider that your little super team was started as a direct result of a bunch of whining parents who felt their kids werent being coached properly. MC has stated on numerous occasions that he doesn't know this age group very well. The whole thing stinks of cronyism plain and simple. And isn't it interesting how the initial invitation emails didn't come from the Express, but rather from someone who will directly profit from this whole arrangement? As for your assinine comment about the best players who have worked hard, every kid on both the Piranhas and the Orange worked hard all year and deserved to finish their season out without meddling from over zealous parents. I have no problem with the organization wanting to put together the best team possible at this age group, and if my kid wasnt one of them, that's fine too, but the timing and manner in the way it was carried out was underhanded and shameless and the kids deserved better. For you to sit here and try to justify it shows just how clueless you really are.

My son played for trueblue and we had a great time this year! My two cents, maybe MC didn't feel that express coaches son's weren't at the level he wanted for that sharks team in the hills tournament and thats why you weren't invited? Could be, just saying.

Wow!! You Parents really need to get a hobby!!

looks like you need one as well

Good one! you got me.

Sounds like an Express parent looking to churn things up..Stick to the problems in your own backyard..these issues have nothing to do with the orange or blue coaches or kids..its all channey wanting to take control over the 2017 group. his goal is to have this team become number one over the Turtles. Plain and simple..

Yeah good luck with that one. Why would MC want to have a team to be number one OVER the Turtles when the Turtles are under the Express umbrella already. Do you not think there is room for improvement on the Turtles even though the blew through any competition along the east coast.

Another post that has nothing to do with the real issue. But good luck with your turtle envy, hope that works out for you

I have more knowledge than you think. My son plays on the 2016 orange and we went thru the same thing last year. The kids had a great season and were given every chance to excel. Mike c was not familar with that age either but he can evaluate talent and can also give these kids what most other programs can not. These 2017 kids played hard and deserve to be given chances to go to the next level. I am sure they will have a tryout in the fall and they may adjust the team a little more. The kids also learn more because they are no longer superstars on their team they are now teamates that play at the same level.

I heard MC runs a short bench?

I don't think they played any harder than the kids that weren't picked, and IMO every kid should have an equal chance to go to the next level. That didn't happen here and thats the problem. As for tryouts, theyre a farce and everyone knows it, it's a straight money grab.

What is this fascination with MC? Yes he is a good lacrosse coach, but he's not the only man on Long Island that knows lacrosse, Plenty of other programs out there that have quality coaching and solid connections to the college pipeline. Everyone is brainwashed into believing you HAVE to play for Express if you want quality coaching and college looks. Yes Express is a good program, but not the only one.

As this is a present issue with 2017 I would think your experience last year with your 2016 team may not give you the knowledge you feel you have. You have good points, however understand your situation may have been different.

With regard to how kids were chosen and who worked hard and deserved it, well, some of us know how the process went and others may have weak opinions. 2017 has plenty of talent.

This new team was NOT formed after 2012 summer tournaments were over. In fact, there were 2 more tournaments to play for existing Express teams. Practices were held and the new team played in charity tournament BEFORE the last tournament for the existing 2012 Express teams. There is no need to effect the integrity of an existing team to move forward in a new direction within organization.

Again, most do not have issues with the formation of the new 2017 Orange team, it was when and how it came to be. To defend or attempt to justify the process, well...

This is a forum for 2017, let them come here to vent if need be. 2016 has it's place as well. When the fall comes and players are dropped and replaced let those individuals feel free to share their opinions as well.

When will grown-ups understand that as consumers YOU have the power to pay for the organization that you feel will teach your son the game. If as a grown-up you actually believe the myth that the summer team you play on has any bearing on how much/what school your son plays for then you will continue the myth. High schools play the best players...if they didn't they would not be successful. Good players play !!!!

As this is a present issue with 2017 I would think your experience last year with your 2016 team may not give you the knowledge you feel you have. You have good points, however understand your situation may have been different.

With regard to how kids were chosen and who worked hard and deserved it, well, some of us know how the process went and others may have weak opinions. 2017 has plenty of talent.

This new team was NOT formed after 2012 summer tournaments were over. In fact, there were 2 more tournaments to play for existing Express teams. Practices were held and the new team played in charity tournament BEFORE the last tournament for the existing 2012 Express teams. There is no need to effect the integrity of an existing team to move forward in a new direction within organization.

Again, most do not have issues with the formation of the new 2017 Orange team, it was when and how it came to be. To defend or attempt to justify the process, well...

This is a forum for 2017, let them come here to vent if need be. 2016 has it's place as well. When the fall comes and players are dropped and replaced let those individuals feel free to share their opinions as well.

Very nice post, pretty much suns it up

Jesters will be a very good team if kids from orange and Korwan's team go there. And mix in with there talent.

Lots of talk about this, my son is a Jesters kid and keeps asking me about this, Is there any truth to these rumors? A bunch of the Piranha kids and Express Orange team kids are looking to leave the Express? I've watched both teams play and if that's true you could put one [lacrosse] of a team together if you mixed all these kids together. With the right coaching it could be a very good team. Leave it to the Express to let good players go................

Not Express the parents.....

Hmmmm, good players leaving?? Wake up.

Ummm yeah, lots of very good players on both the Piranhas and the Orange who will not be back with the Express because of the way they were treated. I think its you who needs to wake up. Oh Im sorry I must be crazy, the only good players were "chosen" and are now Lax immortals.......

And its me that needs to wake up?

At this age very rare at team loses a top Player. If MC didnt pick a Player, seems to be a reason.

So the 2017 Express "Orange" team is the only team on Long Island with top players? Good players dont move around? fl$, 91, Gladiators, True Blue might have an issue with that.......

If you are on the blue and white express your team is purely a profit center for the express. The orange teams are as legit as they come. The rest are the gravy train for the company. If you dont make orange when your sons are in their recruiting years, you have to move on. Or you can stay on B and C team and get an invite to national 175, where they had 10 college coaches.
At the younger ages MC is going to create true quality "A" teams. He will hurt feelings along the way, but people are gluttons for punishment and will have their kids come back and play on the blue and white.

Who are you kidding. All kids move if the team is right. If the turtles opened a tryout for three positions there would be 100 of those kids that don't move lined up

ORANGE TEAM HAS PARENT'S WITH DEEP POCKETS.

Just saying that the BULK of talented players from express orange & pihranas are MOST prob going to stay with the express and are currently practicing. And if your son was "chosen" you wouldn't be crying about it. Like most hypocrites that gave people a hard time. Than when MC gave them the late invite it was all peachy!

Maybe MC saw some kids play Tuesday night when orange and Korwans team scrimmage. How about that picking kids on talent, now that is a great idea. And you would have said no after the fact if your kid was asked . PLEASE

Just saying that the BULK of talented players from express orange & pihranas are MOST prob going to stay with the express and are currently practicing. And if your son was "chosen" you wouldn't be crying about it. Like most hypocrites that gave people a hard time. Than when MC gave them the late invite it was all peachy!

There are only 6 Piranha kids that were asked, so i dont think that constitutes the bulk of the team. This wasnt done on a talent basis and everyone knows it, so give it up. So i guess your saying if a kid wasnt picked theyre not talented?

I never said that, please don't put words in my mouth. I feel every player has talent, some more than others but thats in anything. You said, "this wasn't base on talent and everyone knows it"-- who knows it? Who's "everyone"? Those who are bitter & can't stop whineing? If your son was picked weeks back you wouldn't be complaining. And if you don't think its a talented group, than your very delusional.

You can have your son go to the tryouts and hope he gives his best effort or move on, very simple.

7 Piranhas

Korwan (Express Piranhas 2017) VS. McManus (Express Orange 2017) for the match ups since teams formed in fall- they played 4 scrimmages/games- record- 2(W)-1(L)-1(T) in favor of the Piranhas.

New 2017 Orange team formed over last few weeks had initially 10 McManus kids selected and 4 Piranhas, now 7 Piranhas.

Piranhas team was on the rise this year with plenty of talent. Look at the math, Piranhas were a stronger team based on record, with fewer kids selected.

New 2017 team based purley on talent, NO LOGIC TO THAT.

You are the consumer....go investigate other teams/organizations and see if your kid fits there, and make that team better.....your still the "second" team if you stay with Express, you wont get all "the stuff" that the #1 team gets and you will still have kids added throughout the year "for a tryout". Do you really want to Dig deep into your checkbook to be "the second team". Oh yea...need the connection for St. A's......>>>"""""Good Players Play""""

Never said it wasnt a talented group, I said the selection process wasnt based on talent, which it clearly wasnt. There were BS agendas and personal relationships involved. The fact that the team has talented kids on it doesnt matter. Noone has a problem with the fact that a new and improved "A" team is being formed. It was by whom and the manner it was carried out thats the issue. Any parent that has a kid on either the Piranhas or the Orange team knows this.

Tryouts are a farce, so for you to even bring that up shows where your head is at.

Good luck with your new team, hope it works out for you. I will be taking my son elsewhere where hes treated with the respect he deserves plain and simple. You can say whatever you want, but the Express organization as whole knows nothing of respect and dignity and how to treat people.

as stated, "purely" on talent

Definition of PURELY
1a : to a full extent : totally <purely by accident> b : wholly, exclusively <a selection based purely on merit>
2: without admixture of anything injurious or foreign

And you are correct, easier match ups make for a better tournament season.

Please enlighten us when exactly the Piranhas beat orange. We must not have been there both times.

shouldnt the lengthy Express string go under the Express category?

Break the Express spell........go elsewhere.....the Express is NOT the key to your kids success....stop drinking the koolaide and play for a team that respects the kids/parents etc.

When a man/organization shows their true colors OVER & OVER again, down the line they will show YOU their true colors OVER & OVER again! Why is this situation such a suprise to you all? How often has he/they done the exact same thing? Yet you all let your kids play for them, not thinking it would happen to your child? For those of you with "Chosen" kids, dont try to justify it, there is no justifying it, just enjoy it now because you dont know who will be "Chosen" next year (or worse yet, in September or November or January or even July)

& BTW, this isn't sour grapes...Ive got a couple/few "Chosen" kids of my own that "Chose" somewhere else

Couldn't agree more.........but you know they'll still have 200 unknowing souls at their tryouts to make their donation.

Won't be me........

Best post I've seen in a long time..............

and that is most likely because your son is not good enough to make one of their better teams. Express works for some and not others. As does 91 and other clubs for other kids. There are plenty of teams out there....find one that works for you and stop complaining .

That's why I stated it won't be me Einstein....obviously.......go away now troll

I am just pissed off that took our chef away. Can we all just move on now.

LMAO!!!!!!!!

Northport is in the A classification and came in undefeated in Suffolk in middle school this year. I think we're the winners.

So where are teams playing this fall?

Is Anyone going to New Haven on 11/17?
Anyone going to Fairfield Univeristy on 11/18?
How about Princeton Junction on 11/3?
Others?

Fairfield on 11/18? Whats going on there?

its call football season

Google 'sound lacrosse' and you should be able to find it. (I don't want to adverstise as Cage Sage gets a little ansie about unapproved advertising. He wouldn't even let me mention the location or date of a particular tournament in northern Nassau County at the end of October like I did with the others in my list.)

Thanks for contributing that riveting addition to the forums, which by the way are dedicated to talking about lacrosse. I know its wacky but people come on a lacrosse forum to talk about lacrosse.......crazy

Despite your anonymous post calling out BOTC policy, let us respond.

Please understand that events that you see on BOTC have been vetted by our staff; we know how to contact these events on your behalf should something go wrong on quality, service, or scheduling. When "unapproved" (for want of a better word) events come across the BOTC wires, particularly in the local area, there is an assumption that since it was on the BOTC message boards, we are sanctioning the event and answering questions about it. Hence, we are protecting ourselves and protecting you to some extent.

I understand and respect your policy, which is why I did not mention the tournaments by name, but rather by location and date - i was interested in those particular events. So how are we to know what events have been 'approved' so that we can discuss them? Can we only talk about the events listed on the side bars or that have already occured in the past?

Having been rebuked once in a past post, I attempted to comply with the spirit of your policy by not mentioning the names of the tournament. So I was surprised when you deleted my reference to the Nassau tournament, (when in fact, if you do a search of all posts on BOTC, it has already been mentioned) and not the Fairfield or Princeton Junction tournaments which have not been discussed or anywhere else 'approved'.

Thank you for maintaining this forum and all of the information it provides. It must be a lot of work. I wish there was something like it for Westchester/Connecticut.

-no longer anonymous

Get the word out (but be warned to take each post in stride), but know there are already plenty of Westchester folk on here just observing whether PT TS WR !!!!

Long Island isnt the only place that wears orange.

I have spread the word - youre welcome Cage Sage. I too keep a lookout for PT, TS and WR, though WR doesn't have a team in my child's age. Surprised PT isn't listed on the side bar under Upstate NY Club names. I'll start a thread.