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What's Your View? Tryouts Transparency #41632
09/16/13 01:27 PM
09/16/13 01:27 PM
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CageSage Offline OP
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This is our first "What's Your View?" column of the 2013/2014 season and what better topic to kick-off the seasonal year than a critical look at the tryouts process.

BOTC launched our Tryouts Forum in 2011 and during that first season, we struggled to simply have every club disclose their tryout fees and the standard who, what, where, and when information in their tryout flyers.

In 2012, BOTC asked clubs to disclose as much as possible regarding seasonal fees and detail the features which each student-athlete would receive.

This year, some clubs have raised the bar even further with early disclosure of their coaching staff and the age groups that they will cover.

So, BOTC wants to know : What's Your View?

Are you getting all of the information you need to make an informed decision? What additional detail would help your decision making when it comes to choosing tryouts to attend?

Let us know.

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Re: What's Your View? Tryouts Transparency [Re: CageSage] #41636
09/16/13 01:34 PM
09/16/13 01:34 PM
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Smithtown, New York
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I would like to see proposed tournament schedules for the next year, even including fall/winter. Some organizations (I think legacy,millon) have already started doing that. Having all optional items/dates listed as well could help one find the best fit for their child and schedule.

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Re: What's Your View? Tryouts Transparency [Re: CageSage] #41638
09/16/13 01:36 PM
09/16/13 01:36 PM

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Originally Posted by CageSage
This is our first "What's Your View?" column of the 2013/2014 season and what better topic to kick-off the seasonal year than a critical look at the tryouts process.

BOTC launched our Tryouts Forum in 2011 and during that first season, we struggled to simply have every club disclose their tryout fees and the standard who, what, where, and when information in their tryout flyers.

In 2012, BOTC asked clubs to disclose as much as possible regarding seasonal fees and detail the features which each student-athlete would receive.

This year, some clubs have raised the bar even further with early disclosure of their coaching staff and the age groups that they will cover.

So, BOTC wants to know : What's Your View?

Are you getting all of the information you need to make an informed decision? What additional detail would help your decision making when it comes to choosing tryouts to attend?

Let us know.


I feel as though most of the clubs are still not giving the consumer the financial information when it is needed which is BEFORE tryouts. The full cost with no surprise add ons should be known by all potential consumers before they try out for the team.

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Re: What's Your View? Tryouts Transparency [Re: CageSage] #41647
09/16/13 02:09 PM
09/16/13 02:09 PM

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I'm going to agree with the above poster. The clubs are selling a product and that product should be very well defined prior to the purchase. We as consumers should require a complete program description, coaches, tournament list, fall/winter leagues, training sessions, etc. this will allow the consumer to make an informed decision prior to try outs.
I am not calling out any particular club as some do a better job than others.

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Re: What's Your View? Tryouts Transparency [Re: acblax] #41670
09/16/13 04:15 PM
09/16/13 04:15 PM

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This is a good idea but I imagine it would be a lot easier to do for teams that stay local for their tournaments as opposed to those that travel out of state. The out of state tournament landscape is changing all of the time, with certain tournaments falling out of favor more and more each year (e.g. Tri-State) and others gaining in popularity each year. This is difficult to predict at the time of tryouts especially if a club is looking for the most competitive tournaments. I pretty much assume my June and July are shot at this point. Two recurring themes seemed to pop up on this site relative to tryouts: coaching staff beyond the top or A team; and tryout fees for, some reason. The clubs that posted their entire staff seemed to receive the most positive responses as opposed to those who did not. There is one other item which I think is important to mention for people considering the move to travel lacrosse - hotel and associated travel fees. This has been the biggest killer for us the past two years and can easily exceed the tuition by a factor of two, once all is tallied. I dont think it is the responsibility of the clubs to point this out on their tryout flyers, of course but it is a subject that sort of gets lost in the wash of the whole tuition fee discussion.
Originally Posted by acblax
I would like to see proposed tournament schedules for the next year, even including fall/winter. Some organizations (I think legacy,millon) have already started doing that. Having all optional items/dates listed as well could help one find the best fit for their child and schedule.

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Re: What's Your View? Tryouts Transparency [Re: Anonymous] #41683
09/16/13 06:09 PM
09/16/13 06:09 PM

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
This is a good idea but I imagine it would be a lot easier to do for teams that stay local for their tournaments as opposed to those that travel out of state. The out of state tournament landscape is changing all of the time, with certain tournaments falling out of favor more and more each year (e.g. Tri-State) and others gaining in popularity each year. This is difficult to predict at the time of tryouts especially if a club is looking for the most competitive tournaments. I pretty much assume my June and July are shot at this point. Two recurring themes seemed to pop up on this site relative to tryouts: coaching staff beyond the top or A team; and tryout fees for, some reason. The clubs that posted their entire staff seemed to receive the most positive responses as opposed to those who did not. There is one other item which I think is important to mention for people considering the move to travel lacrosse - hotel and associated travel fees. This has been the biggest killer for us the past two years and can easily exceed the tuition by a factor of two, once all is tallied. I dont think it is the responsibility of the clubs to point this out on their tryout flyers, of course but it is a subject that sort of gets lost in the wash of the whole tuition fee discussion.
Originally Posted by acblax
I would like to see proposed tournament schedules for the next year, even including fall/winter. Some organizations (I think legacy,millon) have already started doing that. Having all optional items/dates listed as well could help one find the best fit for their child and schedule.


Actually, the Legacy Club does that. They have a packet online and one they gave to the parents on Saturday that outlines everything.

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Re: What's Your View? Tryouts Transparency [Re: Anonymous] #41706
09/16/13 08:34 PM
09/16/13 08:34 PM

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
This is a good idea but I imagine it would be a lot easier to do for teams that stay local for their tournaments as opposed to those that travel out of state. The out of state tournament landscape is changing all of the time, with certain tournaments falling out of favor more and more each year (e.g. Tri-State) and others gaining in popularity each year. This is difficult to predict at the time of tryouts especially if a club is looking for the most competitive tournaments. I pretty much assume my June and July are shot at this point. Two recurring themes seemed to pop up on this site relative to tryouts: coaching staff beyond the top or A team; and tryout fees for, some reason. The clubs that posted their entire staff seemed to receive the most positive responses as opposed to those who did not. There is one other item which I think is important to mention for people considering the move to travel lacrosse - hotel and associated travel fees. This has been the biggest killer for us the past two years and can easily exceed the tuition by a factor of two, once all is tallied. I dont think it is the responsibility of the clubs to point this out on their tryout flyers, of course but it is a subject that sort of gets lost in the wash of the whole tuition fee discussion.
Originally Posted by acblax
I would like to see proposed tournament schedules for the next year, even including fall/winter. Some organizations (I think legacy,millon) have already started doing that. Having all optional items/dates listed as well could help one find the best fit for their child and schedule.


Actually, the Legacy Club does that. They have a packet online and one they gave to the parents on Saturday that outlines everything.


That packet is on their site....

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Re: What's Your View? Tryouts Transparency [Re: Anonymous] #41717
09/16/13 10:16 PM
09/16/13 10:16 PM

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Enough with this happy horse crap regarding Legacy and the other new second tier organizations.... If an organization has their tournaments mapped out for next year already, I wouldn't want any parts of it. You people are clearly showing that you belong on a B team!!!! Understand me clearly, I'm not saying your son belongs on one, but most of you parents do. I want my son on a team that will seek out the best tournaments for his team. There is no way to know that right now other than the Baltimore Crabs tournament run in late June and Early July. It's about trying to find the best competition out there. If your organization knows that already, they are setting you up for mediocrity!!!! i.e., LI Laxfest, Ocean Lax Fest, Tri-State(over-rated), Surf & Turf(LOL)

The gentleman below had a great PC answer. I'm just tired of all this self promotion from these clubs...

Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
This is a good idea but I imagine it would be a lot easier to do for teams that stay local for their tournaments as opposed to those that travel out of state. The out of state tournament landscape is changing all of the time, with certain tournaments falling out of favor more and more each year (e.g. Tri-State) and others gaining in popularity each year. This is difficult to predict at the time of tryouts especially if a club is looking for the most competitive tournaments. I pretty much assume my June and July are shot at this point. Two recurring themes seemed to pop up on this site relative to tryouts: coaching staff beyond the top or A team; and tryout fees for, some reason. The clubs that posted their entire staff seemed to receive the most positive responses as opposed to those who did not. There is one other item which I think is important to mention for people considering the move to travel lacrosse - hotel and associated travel fees. This has been the biggest killer for us the past two years and can easily exceed the tuition by a factor of two, once all is tallied. I dont think it is the responsibility of the clubs to point this out on their tryout flyers, of course but it is a subject that sort of gets lost in the wash of the whole tuition fee discussion.
Originally Posted by acblax
I would like to see proposed tournament schedules for the next year, even including fall/winter. Some organizations (I think legacy,millon) have already started doing that. Having all optional items/dates listed as well could help one find the best fit for their child and schedule.


Actually, the Legacy Club does that. They have a packet online and one they gave to the parents on Saturday that outlines everything.


That packet is on their site....

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Re: What's Your View? Tryouts Transparency [Re: Anonymous] #41733
09/17/13 07:02 AM
09/17/13 07:02 AM

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As a parent and coach of one of the club teams I think it is important to know all the facts before signing with any club. Listed below are some questions you should ask before putting down a deposit.
1- Cost. Know what you get for this cost.
2- Winter/Spring season. Are they offering this and if so how much will this cost.
3- Coach. I can go on forever about this subject. Bottom line. I have seen some real good coaches in some of the smaller clubs and I have seen some bad coaches in the larger clubs. Know who is coaching your child before you put down that deposit. BTW- If they can't tell you who is coaching your child's team by now, they don't have one yet. Stay away.
4- Coaches philosophy on playing time. Some parents don't care about playing time as long as little Johnny makes the team. You see this w/ the stronger clubs. How is your kid going to get better if he doesn't play. Not to mention his self esteem.
5- How many kids on a team ? 24 kids or more they are taking your money and playing time will be reduced.
6- How many kids on the team at your child's position ? Know this. If they have more then 6 defenseman, 6 attackman, 2 goalies or 9 middies on any one team then playing time will be reduced to less then 1/2 a game p/ kid. That's not a lot of playing time for $1400.
7- Practice location and days they will practice. Important if you have multiple kids.

If you know the answer to these questions you can make an intelligent decision and you will be less likely to be disappointed at the end of the season. Hope this helps.




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Re: What's Your View? Tryouts Transparency [Re: Anonymous] #41764
09/17/13 09:32 AM
09/17/13 09:32 AM

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
As a parent and coach of one of the club teams I think it is important to know all the facts before signing with any club. Listed below are some questions you should ask before putting down a deposit.
1- Cost. Know what you get for this cost.
2- Winter/Spring season. Are they offering this and if so how much will this cost.
3- Coach. I can go on forever about this subject. Bottom line. I have seen some real good coaches in some of the smaller clubs and I have seen some bad coaches in the larger clubs. Know who is coaching your child before you put down that deposit. BTW- If they can't tell you who is coaching your child's team by now, they don't have one yet. Stay away.
4- Coaches philosophy on playing time. Some parents don't care about playing time as long as little Johnny makes the team. You see this w/ the stronger clubs. How is your kid going to get better if he doesn't play. Not to mention his self esteem.
5- How many kids on a team ? 24 kids or more they are taking your money and playing time will be reduced.
6- How many kids on the team at your child's position ? Know this. If they have more then 6 defenseman, 6 attackman, 2 goalies or 9 middies on any one team then playing time will be reduced to less then 1/2 a game p/ kid. That's not a lot of playing time for $1400.
7- Practice location and days they will practice. Important if you have multiple kids.

If you know the answer to these questions you can make an intelligent decision and you will be less likely to be disappointed at the end of the season. Hope this helps.





Thank you.... excellent post, I think at best you can get a tentative subject to change schedule, it can not be written in stone at this point, they may want to see what kind of team they have first and what is the best fit (great team may want to play up or go to elite tourneys or weaker then expected and they may want to go to more competition appropriate tourneys) - The single most important thing to me would be the number of players on the team and the number of players at my sons position, I would love to know that ahead of time.

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Re: What's Your View? Tryouts Transparency [Re: Anonymous] #41766
09/17/13 09:44 AM
09/17/13 09:44 AM

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I would like a list of the parents... stay away from the crazy ones...

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Re: What's Your View? Tryouts Transparency [Re: Anonymous] #41769
09/17/13 09:46 AM
09/17/13 09:46 AM

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
As a parent and coach of one of the club teams I think it is important to know all the facts before signing with any club. Listed below are some questions you should ask before putting down a deposit.
1- Cost. Know what you get for this cost.
2- Winter/Spring season. Are they offering this and if so how much will this cost.
3- Coach. I can go on forever about this subject. Bottom line. I have seen some real good coaches in some of the smaller clubs and I have seen some bad coaches in the larger clubs. Know who is coaching your child before you put down that deposit. BTW- If they can't tell you who is coaching your child's team by now, they don't have one yet. Stay away.
4- Coaches philosophy on playing time. Some parents don't care about playing time as long as little Johnny makes the team. You see this w/ the stronger clubs. How is your kid going to get better if he doesn't play. Not to mention his self esteem.
5- How many kids on a team ? 24 kids or more they are taking your money and playing time will be reduced.
6- How many kids on the team at your child's position ? Know this. If they have more then 6 defenseman, 6 attackman, 2 goalies or 9 middies on any one team then playing time will be reduced to less then 1/2 a game p/ kid. That's not a lot of playing time for $1400.
7- Practice location and days they will practice. Important if you have multiple kids.

If you know the answer to these questions you can make an intelligent decision and you will be less likely to be disappointed at the end of the season. Hope this helps.





Thank you.... excellent post, I think at best you can get a tentative subject to change schedule, it can not be written in stone at this point, they may want to see what kind of team they have first and what is the best fit (great team may want to play up or go to elite tourneys or weaker then expected and they may want to go to more competition appropriate tourneys) - The single most important thing to me would be the number of players on the team and the number of players at my sons position, I would love to know that ahead of time.


Yes, number of players is important, but the single most important thing should be who the COACH is! That will determine your son's improvement, and will have a lot to do with how much he'll enjoy it. Most of the time will be spent on the practice field, so that's what needs to be the most productive. The rest of the priorities also depend on the age, but I still think COACHING should be number one for all ages.

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Re: What's Your View? Tryouts Transparency [Re: Anonymous] #41816
09/17/13 01:04 PM
09/17/13 01:04 PM

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
I would like a list of the parents... stay away from the crazy ones...


I would like to make this first "post of the year" nomination

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Re: What's Your View? Tryouts Transparency [Re: Anonymous] #41824
09/17/13 01:30 PM
09/17/13 01:30 PM

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The landscape of youth lacrosse is changing because we now have all these former College players, HS coaches, 80ís stars who are looking to coach with opportunities to make good money and still be involved in the game. As more of these opportunities come about there will be more choices to negotiate on their fees, which in turn drives up the cost of teams. Also as the tournaments rates rise to realize more profits (which some go back to these clubs anyway), the overall cost of the teams would inherently increase. So, if we stay on the trajectory this sport will slowing die in this market, as it will eventually put more people without the means to have their son/daughters or multiple kids with skills play with a higher level of talent and exposure to good coaching on these teams. Lacrosse will become what golf is where itís a ďrich mansĒ sport. There is too much talent on LI to allow that to happen to maintain this sports heritage here.

The question I have, all these coaches, former great players and leaders of these clubs; how did you get to where you are in youth lacrosse and did your parents have to invest in comparison thousands of dollars per year to have you play and get to a top level? I know mine didnít and my point on this topic, if we are talking about transparency; all these clubs saying the right words on focusing on the kids, building their IQ, etc. Yes these will do this if they make, play and pay for that team but is that truly their transparent intention.

Yes, its business and yes they have to make money, and yes it cost allot to put the time in etc., however these teams/clubs have increased some 30-50% in the last 2-3 years. No business increases that much and your paychecks arenít increasing that fast, so for how long can we keep LI competitive if we are cannibalizing ourselves with for profit first, value and teaching second.

The sad part, there is no alternative and challenge each club to look within to state their purpose. Tryouts, $$60-$200 Ė that is all profit with no insight into the % chance of making the club from the previous yearís team Ė are they looking to persuade people from trying out or just make more money? YoY 20% team increase with the same service, not major changes to offerings, for what? Did you need to pay the coaches more? The tournament costs arenít out at the time of pricing out the teams cost so why the increase?

Problem is we pay for this because we as parents have the false perception that if we donít out kids will fall behind and we have no other options. Some of the greatest players who are listed on many of the teams websites as coaches played other sports over the summer and their skills as a lacrosse player would be on comparison to todays as good if not better. So do we need to have 8-14 year olds involved in $1500 teams, well parents of today are conditioned to think so but I would challenge them to ask all these big time coaches if they played for the Expressí the world in summer of 1987 (you might be surprised they didnít exist but that player still went onto Syracuse on scholarship)

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Re: What's Your View? Tryouts Transparency [Re: Anonymous] #41834
09/17/13 02:42 PM
09/17/13 02:42 PM

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Practice locations! Welcome to my 1.5 hour one-way (in traffic) to practice last season...

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