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Re: 2020-2021 Women's College Lacrosse Season
Anonymous #326090 04/06/21 04:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Anonymous
[/quote]

Quick comparison of two teams with identical records in 2019 (Jacksonville: 17 - 4 and North Carolina: 17 - 4). According to your logic these teams should be considered equal and have the same "Ranking". Maybe if the competed against each other the game would have resulted in a tie.



Jacksonville Record: 17 - 4

Ranking: Not ranked at the end of the season.

Jacksonville played 3 Top 20 Teams (#11, #13, #17) Lost to all three Top 20 Teams.

Jacksonville played 0 Top 10 Teams.

Jacksonville had 0 Top 20 wins.

Jacksonville had 1 loss to an unranked team.


North Carolina Record: 17 - 4

Ranking: # 3

UNC played 12 Top 20 Teams (#1, #2 three times, #4, #5, #7 twice, #9, #13 twice, #15) 8 - 4 vs Top 20.

9 opponents were Top 10.

6 opponents were Top 5

UNC had 8 wins Vs Top 20 Teams.

5 Wins vs Top 10 Teams.

3 Wins vs Top 5 Teams.

1 Win vs the # 2 Team.

Lost to # 1 National Champion by 1 goal in OT.

BTW... UNC played #21 twice, #24, and #25 twice....

17 of 21 games were played Vs Top 25 Teams.

Sorry, In women's Division I Lacrosse a teams record means very little when comparing or evaluating teams.

We are not talking about UNC or Jacksonville, we are talking about this years Va Tech team. They are 3-7. Those wins were against Liberty, Longwood and Radford. They lost to some very good teams but lost to unranked Davidson. Hopefully they can win one more or perhaps two more but it will be difficult. Beating Louisville would have been a good win and perhaps the only shot at an ACC win, but they lost. Please do not tell me their record means very little. Their record shouts out mediocre to me[/quote]

I will jump in on this one. I believe the overall discussion was about the premise that a teams record is not necessarily indicative of where a team should be ranked.

Your argument does not support the contention that a teams record (alone) accurately reflects how strong a particular team is. Your argument is actually based on the fact that Virginia Tech lost to an unranked Davidson Team and that they do not have any quality wins vs Top 20 teams. It is not solely based on Virginia Techs Record.

Simply put, a teams record is not a very good barometer to use when comparing teams.

As the above comparison illustrates, the "own your record" phrase is ridiculous.[/quote]

So Va Tech is last in the competitive ACC. They just played the other cellar dweller Louisville and lost, they lost to the team above that in Duke and the team above that in Virginia. So they are in last place. They still have one more game each against both Duke and Virginia. A win against one of those would help them get some credibility.

I understand where you are coming from in regards to an overal record not meaning as much. Duke is 6-5 with no losses outside of the ACC. That is why they are ranked. Va Tech lost to Davidson and Jacksonville. Jacksonville is ranked. At the time Va Tech was ranked but obviously no more. Beating Florida was a nice win for Jacksonville...but let's be honest, if Jacksonville was in the ACC they would probably only have 1 win. (Va Tech)

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Re: 2020-2021 Women's College Lacrosse Season
Anonymous #326092 04/06/21 05:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous

Quick comparison of two teams with identical records in 2019 (Jacksonville: 17 - 4 and North Carolina: 17 - 4). According to your logic these teams should be considered equal and have the same "Ranking". Maybe if the competed against each other the game would have resulted in a tie.



Jacksonville Record: 17 - 4

Ranking: Not ranked at the end of the season.

Jacksonville played 3 Top 20 Teams (#11, #13, #17) Lost to all three Top 20 Teams.

Jacksonville played 0 Top 10 Teams.

Jacksonville had 0 Top 20 wins.

Jacksonville had 1 loss to an unranked team.


North Carolina Record: 17 - 4

Ranking: # 3

UNC played 12 Top 20 Teams (#1, #2 three times, #4, #5, #7 twice, #9, #13 twice, #15) 8 - 4 vs Top 20.

9 opponents were Top 10.

6 opponents were Top 5

UNC had 8 wins Vs Top 20 Teams.

5 Wins vs Top 10 Teams.

3 Wins vs Top 5 Teams.

1 Win vs the # 2 Team.

Lost to # 1 National Champion by 1 goal in OT.

BTW... UNC played #21 twice, #24, and #25 twice....

17 of 21 games were played Vs Top 25 Teams.

Sorry, In women's Division I Lacrosse a teams record means very little when comparing or evaluating teams.

We are not talking about UNC or Jacksonville, we are talking about this years Va Tech team. They are 3-7. Those wins were against Liberty, Longwood and Radford. They lost to some very good teams but lost to unranked Davidson. Hopefully they can win one more or perhaps two more but it will be difficult. Beating Louisville would have been a good win and perhaps the only shot at an ACC win, but they lost. Please do not tell me their record means very little. Their record shouts out mediocre to me[/quote]

I will jump in on this one. I believe the overall discussion was about the premise that a teams record is not necessarily indicative of where a team should be ranked.

Your argument does not support the contention that a teams record (alone) accurately reflects how strong a particular team is. Your argument is actually based on the fact that Virginia Tech lost to an unranked Davidson Team and that they do not have any quality wins vs Top 20 teams. It is not solely based on Virginia Techs Record.

Simply put, a teams record is not a very good barometer to use when comparing teams.

As the above comparison illustrates, the "own your record" phrase is ridiculous.[/quote]

So Va Tech is last in the competitive ACC. They just played the other cellar dweller Louisville and lost, they lost to the team above that in Duke and the team above that in Virginia. So they are in last place. They still have one more game each against both Duke and Virginia. A win against one of those would help them get some credibility.

I understand where you are coming from in regards to an overal record not meaning as much. Duke is 6-5 with no losses outside of the ACC. That is why they are ranked. Va Tech lost to Davidson and Jacksonville. Jacksonville is ranked. At the time Va Tech was ranked but obviously no more. Beating Florida was a nice win for Jacksonville...but let's be honest, if Jacksonville was in the ACC they would probably only have 1 win. (Va Tech)[/quote]


Not sure what your hang up is with Virginia Tech. I do not recall anyone saying that they should be ranked. The entire point was that a in women's lacrosse you can not use a teams record to compare or rank teams you must look at who they play. I believe the discussion started because The Big 10 is only playing in-conference.

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Re: 2020-2021 Women's College Lacrosse Season
TheBackOfTheCage #326329 04/09/21 09:28 AM
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So you do not need to have at least a .500 record to get an at large bid to the tournament. Seems like they will have their work cut out for them especially with the big ten. Not playing out of conference really gives us no idea how good these big ten teams are. Difficult to see how they would stack up against the lower ranked ACC teams etc.

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Re: 2020-2021 Women's College Lacrosse Season
Anonymous #326334 04/09/21 10:18 AM
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Originally Posted by Anonymous
So you do not need to have at least a .500 record to get an at large bid to the tournament. Seems like they will have their work cut out for them especially with the big ten. Not playing out of conference really gives us no idea how good these big ten teams are. Difficult to see how they would stack up against the lower ranked ACC teams etc.

Yeah, The Big 10 is really a weak conference. Just curious when you say lower acc teams are you referring to everyone except UNC?

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Re: 2020-2021 Women's College Lacrosse Season
Anonymous #326338 04/09/21 10:53 AM
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Originally Posted by Anonymous
So you do not need to have at least a .500 record to get an at large bid to the tournament. Seems like they will have their work cut out for them especially with the big ten. Not playing out of conference really gives us no idea how good these big ten teams are. Difficult to see how they would stack up against the lower ranked ACC teams etc.

Recent History...

2016 Final Four:

B1G - Maryland, Penn State
ACC- UNC, Syracuse

UNC - National Champion

2017 - Final Four:

B1G - Maryland, Penn State
ACC - BC

Maryland - National Champion

2018 Final Four:

B1G - Maryland
ACC - BC, UNC

JMU - National Championship

2019 Final Four:

B1G - Maryland, Northwestern
ACC - BC, UNC

Maryland - National Champion

So let me get this straight, The Big 10 is only playing in conference so we will look at their records and then try to compare Big 10 teams to the rest of Division 1 women's teams? Since some of the teams have sub par records we must assume that they are not very good. OK, I get it.

If I understand correctly, we are to assume that the two strongest programs in the history of the sport suddenly fell apart and are no longer competitive. I guess Hopkins and Penn State are not competitive, Forget about Michigan who was ranked 11th at the end of the 2019 eason (the last full season of play). OSU and Rutgers most certainly couldn't win a non-conference game....

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Re: 2020-2021 Women's College Lacrosse Season
Anonymous #326350 04/09/21 12:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
So you do not need to have at least a .500 record to get an at large bid to the tournament. Seems like they will have their work cut out for them especially with the big ten. Not playing out of conference really gives us no idea how good these big ten teams are. Difficult to see how they would stack up against the lower ranked ACC teams etc.

Recent History...

2016 Final Four:

B1G - Maryland, Penn State
ACC- UNC, Syracuse

UNC - National Champion

2017 - Final Four:

B1G - Maryland, Penn State
ACC - BC

Maryland - National Champion

2018 Final Four:

B1G - Maryland
ACC - BC, UNC

JMU - National Championship

2019 Final Four:

B1G - Maryland, Northwestern
ACC - BC, UNC

Maryland - National Champion

So let me get this straight, The Big 10 is only playing in conference so we will look at their records and then try to compare Big 10 teams to the rest of Division 1 women's teams? Since some of the teams have sub par records we must assume that they are not very good. OK, I get it.

If I understand correctly, we are to assume that the two strongest programs in the history of the sport suddenly fell apart and are no longer competitive. I guess Hopkins and Penn State are not competitive, Forget about Michigan who was ranked 11th at the end of the 2019 eason (the last full season of play). OSU and Rutgers most certainly couldn't win a non-conference game....


Wow sensitive Sally. I used the lower ranked ACC as they seem to have similar records to many of the big 10 teams. You obviously think every big ten team should make the tournament why not just say that instead of your sarcastic nonsense. If you watch Maryland some would say they have fallen apart compared to the old days ,they seem worse than the Maryland team that lost 19-6 to UNC. Not sure how Maryland would do this year in the ACC will be interesting to see who the committee selects.

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Re: 2020-2021 Women's College Lacrosse Season
Anonymous #326353 04/09/21 01:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
So you do not need to have at least a .500 record to get an at large bid to the tournament. Seems like they will have their work cut out for them especially with the big ten. Not playing out of conference really gives us no idea how good these big ten teams are. Difficult to see how they would stack up against the lower ranked ACC teams etc.

Recent History...

2016 Final Four:

B1G - Maryland, Penn State
ACC- UNC, Syracuse

UNC - National Champion

2017 - Final Four:

B1G - Maryland, Penn State
ACC - BC

Maryland - National Champion

2018 Final Four:

B1G - Maryland
ACC - BC, UNC

JMU - National Championship

2019 Final Four:

B1G - Maryland, Northwestern
ACC - BC, UNC

Maryland - National Champion

So let me get this straight, The Big 10 is only playing in conference so we will look at their records and then try to compare Big 10 teams to the rest of Division 1 women's teams? Since some of the teams have sub par records we must assume that they are not very good. OK, I get it.

If I understand correctly, we are to assume that the two strongest programs in the history of the sport suddenly fell apart and are no longer competitive. I guess Hopkins and Penn State are not competitive, Forget about Michigan who was ranked 11th at the end of the 2019 eason (the last full season of play). OSU and Rutgers most certainly couldn't win a non-conference game....


Wow sensitive Sally. I used the lower ranked ACC as they seem to have similar records to many of the big 10 teams. You obviously think every big ten team should make the tournament why not just say that instead of your sarcastic nonsense. If you watch Maryland some would say they have fallen apart compared to the old days ,they seem worse than the Maryland team that lost 19-6 to UNC. Not sure how Maryland would do this year in the ACC will be interesting to see who the committee selects.

Both are excellent conferences. Challenging to judge / rank teams this year. No doubt Maryland is down from their peak but still a competitive team. I don't know if every Big Ten team should make the tournament but they all look pretty good.

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Re: 2020-2021 Women's College Lacrosse Season
Anonymous #326359 04/09/21 01:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Anonymous
So you do not need to have at least a .500 record to get an at large bid to the tournament. Seems like they will have their work cut out for them especially with the big ten. Not playing out of conference really gives us no idea how good these big ten teams are. Difficult to see how they would stack up against the lower ranked ACC teams etc.

Is that true regarding .500 record?

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Re: 2020-2021 Women's College Lacrosse Season
Anonymous #326363 04/09/21 02:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
So you do not need to have at least a .500 record to get an at large bid to the tournament. Seems like they will have their work cut out for them especially with the big ten. Not playing out of conference really gives us no idea how good these big ten teams are. Difficult to see how they would stack up against the lower ranked ACC teams etc.

Recent History...

2016 Final Four:

B1G - Maryland, Penn State
ACC- UNC, Syracuse

UNC - National Champion

2017 - Final Four:

B1G - Maryland, Penn State
ACC - BC

Maryland - National Champion

2018 Final Four:

B1G - Maryland
ACC - BC, UNC

JMU - National Championship

2019 Final Four:

B1G - Maryland, Northwestern
ACC - BC, UNC

Maryland - National Champion

So let me get this straight, The Big 10 is only playing in conference so we will look at their records and then try to compare Big 10 teams to the rest of Division 1 women's teams? Since some of the teams have sub par records we must assume that they are not very good. OK, I get it.

If I understand correctly, we are to assume that the two strongest programs in the history of the sport suddenly fell apart and are no longer competitive. I guess Hopkins and Penn State are not competitive, Forget about Michigan who was ranked 11th at the end of the 2019 eason (the last full season of play). OSU and Rutgers most certainly couldn't win a non-conference game....


Wow sensitive Sally. I used the lower ranked ACC as they seem to have similar records to many of the big 10 teams. You obviously think every big ten team should make the tournament why not just say that instead of your sarcastic nonsense. If you watch Maryland some would say they have fallen apart compared to the old days ,they seem worse than the Maryland team that lost 19-6 to UNC. Not sure how Maryland would do this year in the ACC will be interesting to see who the committee selects.

Both are excellent conferences. Challenging to judge / rank teams this year. No doubt Maryland is down from their peak but still a competitive team. I don't know if every Big Ten team should make the tournament but they all look pretty good.

Big 10 all look pretty good. Cmon man.

NU 10-0 208 Goals for. 103 goals against
Maryland 6-3. 112 GF 116 GA
Hopkins 3-4. 70 GF. 87 GA
Michigan 3-4. 82 GF. 86 GA
PSU. 3-6. 114 GF. 128 GA
Rutgers 3-6. 95 GF. 129 GA
OSU 3-8. 114 GF. 146 GA

How many pages devoted to how good the Big 10 is. Max to get in NCAA should be top 2. Can we stop with how tough conference is. Maybe a little defense would help these teams.

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Re: 2020-2021 Women's College Lacrosse Season
Anonymous #326366 04/09/21 03:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
So you do not need to have at least a .500 record to get an at large bid to the tournament. Seems like they will have their work cut out for them especially with the big ten. Not playing out of conference really gives us no idea how good these big ten teams are. Difficult to see how they would stack up against the lower ranked ACC teams etc.

Recent History...

2016 Final Four:

B1G - Maryland, Penn State
ACC- UNC, Syracuse

UNC - National Champion

2017 - Final Four:

B1G - Maryland, Penn State
ACC - BC

Maryland - National Champion

2018 Final Four:

B1G - Maryland
ACC - BC, UNC

JMU - National Championship

2019 Final Four:

B1G - Maryland, Northwestern
ACC - BC, UNC

Maryland - National Champion

So let me get this straight, The Big 10 is only playing in conference so we will look at their records and then try to compare Big 10 teams to the rest of Division 1 women's teams? Since some of the teams have sub par records we must assume that they are not very good. OK, I get it.

If I understand correctly, we are to assume that the two strongest programs in the history of the sport suddenly fell apart and are no longer competitive. I guess Hopkins and Penn State are not competitive, Forget about Michigan who was ranked 11th at the end of the 2019 eason (the last full season of play). OSU and Rutgers most certainly couldn't win a non-conference game....


Wow sensitive Sally. I used the lower ranked ACC as they seem to have similar records to many of the big 10 teams. You obviously think every big ten team should make the tournament why not just say that instead of your sarcastic nonsense. If you watch Maryland some would say they have fallen apart compared to the old days ,they seem worse than the Maryland team that lost 19-6 to UNC. Not sure how Maryland would do this year in the ACC will be interesting to see who the committee selects.

Both are excellent conferences. Challenging to judge / rank teams this year. No doubt Maryland is down from their peak but still a competitive team. I don't know if every Big Ten team should make the tournament but they all look pretty good.

Big 10 all look pretty good. Cmon man.

NU 10-0 208 Goals for. 103 goals against
Maryland 6-3. 112 GF 116 GA
Hopkins 3-4. 70 GF. 87 GA
Michigan 3-4. 82 GF. 86 GA
PSU. 3-6. 114 GF. 128 GA
Rutgers 3-6. 95 GF. 129 GA
OSU 3-8. 114 GF. 146 GA

How many pages devoted to how good the Big 10 is. Max to get in NCAA should be top 2. Can we stop with how tough conference is. Maybe a little defense would help these teams.

Considering the fact that they are only playing among themselves stats and records have no relevance when trying to compare them to teams outside their conference.

Strange year.

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Re: 2020-2021 Women's College Lacrosse Season
Anonymous #326367 04/09/21 03:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
So you do not need to have at least a .500 record to get an at large bid to the tournament. Seems like they will have their work cut out for them especially with the big ten. Not playing out of conference really gives us no idea how good these big ten teams are. Difficult to see how they would stack up against the lower ranked ACC teams etc.

Is that true regarding .500 record?

Normal years, yes. This year teams do not need a .500 or better record.

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Re: 2020-2021 Women's College Lacrosse Season
Anonymous #326368 04/09/21 04:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
So you do not need to have at least a .500 record to get an at large bid to the tournament. Seems like they will have their work cut out for them especially with the big ten. Not playing out of conference really gives us no idea how good these big ten teams are. Difficult to see how they would stack up against the lower ranked ACC teams etc.

Recent History...

2016 Final Four:

B1G - Maryland, Penn State
ACC- UNC, Syracuse

UNC - National Champion

2017 - Final Four:

B1G - Maryland, Penn State
ACC - BC

Maryland - National Champion

2018 Final Four:

B1G - Maryland
ACC - BC, UNC

JMU - National Championship

2019 Final Four:

B1G - Maryland, Northwestern
ACC - BC, UNC

Maryland - National Champion

So let me get this straight, The Big 10 is only playing in conference so we will look at their records and then try to compare Big 10 teams to the rest of Division 1 women's teams? Since some of the teams have sub par records we must assume that they are not very good. OK, I get it.

If I understand correctly, we are to assume that the two strongest programs in the history of the sport suddenly fell apart and are no longer competitive. I guess Hopkins and Penn State are not competitive, Forget about Michigan who was ranked 11th at the end of the 2019 eason (the last full season of play). OSU and Rutgers most certainly couldn't win a non-conference game....


Wow sensitive Sally. I used the lower ranked ACC as they seem to have similar records to many of the big 10 teams. You obviously think every big ten team should make the tournament why not just say that instead of your sarcastic nonsense. If you watch Maryland some would say they have fallen apart compared to the old days ,they seem worse than the Maryland team that lost 19-6 to UNC. Not sure how Maryland would do this year in the ACC will be interesting to see who the committee selects.

Both are excellent conferences. Challenging to judge / rank teams this year. No doubt Maryland is down from their peak but still a competitive team. I don't know if every Big Ten team should make the tournament but they all look pretty good.

Big 10 all look pretty good. Cmon man.

NU 10-0 208 Goals for. 103 goals against
Maryland 6-3. 112 GF 116 GA
Hopkins 3-4. 70 GF. 87 GA
Michigan 3-4. 82 GF. 86 GA
PSU. 3-6. 114 GF. 128 GA
Rutgers 3-6. 95 GF. 129 GA
OSU 3-8. 114 GF. 146 GA

How many pages devoted to how good the Big 10 is. Max to get in NCAA should be top 2. Can we stop with how tough conference is. Maybe a little defense would help these teams.

We all know The ACC is the deepest but I don’t think there is any other conference that is tougher than The Big Ten.

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Re: 2020-2021 Women's College Lacrosse Season
Anonymous #326376 04/09/21 06:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
So you do not need to have at least a .500 record to get an at large bid to the tournament. Seems like they will have their work cut out for them especially with the big ten. Not playing out of conference really gives us no idea how good these big ten teams are. Difficult to see how they would stack up against the lower ranked ACC teams etc.

Recent History...

2016 Final Four:

B1G - Maryland, Penn State
ACC- UNC, Syracuse

UNC - National Champion

2017 - Final Four:

B1G - Maryland, Penn State
ACC - BC

Maryland - National Champion

2018 Final Four:

B1G - Maryland
ACC - BC, UNC

JMU - National Championship

2019 Final Four:

B1G - Maryland, Northwestern
ACC - BC, UNC

Maryland - National Champion

So let me get this straight, The Big 10 is only playing in conference so we will look at their records and then try to compare Big 10 teams to the rest of Division 1 women's teams? Since some of the teams have sub par records we must assume that they are not very good. OK, I get it.

If I understand correctly, we are to assume that the two strongest programs in the history of the sport suddenly fell apart and are no longer competitive. I guess Hopkins and Penn State are not competitive, Forget about Michigan who was ranked 11th at the end of the 2019 eason (the last full season of play). OSU and Rutgers most certainly couldn't win a non-conference game....


Wow sensitive Sally. I used the lower ranked ACC as they seem to have similar records to many of the big 10 teams. You obviously think every big ten team should make the tournament why not just say that instead of your sarcastic nonsense. If you watch Maryland some would say they have fallen apart compared to the old days ,they seem worse than the Maryland team that lost 19-6 to UNC. Not sure how Maryland would do this year in the ACC will be interesting to see who the committee selects.

Both are excellent conferences. Challenging to judge / rank teams this year. No doubt Maryland is down from their peak but still a competitive team. I don't know if every Big Ten team should make the tournament but they all look pretty good.

Big 10 all look pretty good. Cmon man.

NU 10-0 208 Goals for. 103 goals against
Maryland 6-3. 112 GF 116 GA
Hopkins 3-4. 70 GF. 87 GA
Michigan 3-4. 82 GF. 86 GA
PSU. 3-6. 114 GF. 128 GA
Rutgers 3-6. 95 GF. 129 GA
OSU 3-8. 114 GF. 146 GA

How many pages devoted to how good the Big 10 is. Max to get in NCAA should be top 2. Can we stop with how tough conference is. Maybe a little defense would help these teams.

We all know The ACC is the deepest but I don’t think there is any other conference that is tougher than The Big Ten.


What does that even mean. Stats seem to show Big 10 is over rated except by a select few here that want to push that it is toughest conference. If your opinion is “its toughest” at least try to attach some type of facts/stats to support your position.

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Re: 2020-2021 Women's College Lacrosse Season
Anonymous #326379 04/09/21 07:12 PM
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Trying to say.... outside of the ACC The Big 10 is the toughest conference.

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Re: 2020-2021 Women's College Lacrosse Season
TheBackOfTheCage #326413 04/10/21 12:45 PM
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Terms just announced that they will have at least two seniors come back for a 5th year in 2022..
What will this do the incoming recruits class? The 23’s?
Do you think CR tells certain seniors that she doesn’t have room for them as 5th yr?

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