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Re: Girls High School Lax [Re: Anonymous] #286421
06/11/19 06:42 PM
06/11/19 06:42 PM

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Just to be honest. I am disgruntled after last night's award dinner.
Its the same thing every year. The same coaches patting each other on the back and giving each others kids the top awards.
Riverhead, Coach of the year ! Really, Talk about doing less with more. Two all americans ,and Division 1 recruits at every position including Maryland, Hopkins, Penn State etc. etc etc . 4th place finish and 1 playoff win,, Woopie!

Mt Sinai reign is over yet the coach is still chairman of the AA committee They had a a few too, no surprise there.



First off Riverhead and Sinai have zero actual AA, that honorable mention stuff is essentially just a made up award , not recognized by US lacrosse . Second I have no problem with Bertolone chairing the AA committee as he knows the players as well as anyone. Third the failure of Riverhead as a team has little to do with the coach , its the parents and their attitudes that trickle down to the kids so the chemistry is horrendous, that and honestly the players are listening to the parents more the coach.


Coaching plays a huge role. That said, even a great coach will not win without a decent amount of talented athletes but a team filled with talent will not win with out a good coach. A bad coach will destroy the team. Stop with the parent BS.



You are just completely wrong ,she is a decent coach .The team has decent individual talent (not as good as they think) but the chemistry is a nightmare . That bad chemistry comes from the parents and if you think chemistry does not matter you are clueless.

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Re: Girls High School Lax [Re: Anonymous] #286426
06/11/19 08:04 PM
06/11/19 08:04 PM

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Just to be honest. I am disgruntled after last night's award dinner.
Its the same thing every year. The same coaches patting each other on the back and giving each others kids the top awards.
Riverhead, Coach of the year ! Really, Talk about doing less with more. Two all americans ,and Division 1 recruits at every position including Maryland, Hopkins, Penn State etc. etc etc . 4th place finish and 1 playoff win,, Woopie!

Mt Sinai reign is over yet the coach is still chairman of the AA committee They had a a few too, no surprise there.



First off Riverhead and Sinai have zero actual AA, that honorable mention stuff is essentially just a made up award , not recognized by US lacrosse . Second I have no problem with Bertolone chairing the AA committee as he knows the players as well as anyone. Third the failure of Riverhead as a team has little to do with the coach , its the parents and their attitudes that trickle down to the kids so the chemistry is horrendous, that and honestly the players are listening to the parents more the coach.


Coaching plays a huge role. That said, even a great coach will not win without a decent amount of talented athletes but a team filled with talent will not win with out a good coach. A bad coach will destroy the team. Stop with the parent BS.



You are just completely wrong ,she is a decent coach .The team has decent individual talent (not as good as they think) but the chemistry is a nightmare . That bad chemistry comes from the parents and if you think chemistry does not matter you are clueless.


Of course chemistry matters. Good coaches lead and they set the tone of the team. Parents are not at practice and they are not on the sideline during games. There are teams that have had a lot more talent than Riverhead and they have not been able to win because of poor coaching.

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Re: Girls High School Lax [Re: Anonymous] #286435
06/11/19 10:37 PM
06/11/19 10:37 PM

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Just to be honest. I am disgruntled after last night's award dinner.
Its the same thing every year. The same coaches patting each other on the back and giving each others kids the top awards.
Riverhead, Coach of the year ! Really, Talk about doing less with more. Two all americans ,and Division 1 recruits at every position including Maryland, Hopkins, Penn State etc. etc etc . 4th place finish and 1 playoff win,, Woopie!

Mt Sinai reign is over yet the coach is still chairman of the AA committee They had a a few too, no surprise there.



First off Riverhead and Sinai have zero actual AA, that honorable mention stuff is essentially just a made up award , not recognized by US lacrosse . Second I have no problem with Bertolone chairing the AA committee as he knows the players as well as anyone. Third the failure of Riverhead as a team has little to do with the coach , its the parents and their attitudes that trickle down to the kids so the chemistry is horrendous, that and honestly the players are listening to the parents more the coach.


Coaching plays a huge role. That said, even a great coach will not win without a decent amount of talented athletes but a team filled with talent will not win with out a good coach. A bad coach will destroy the team. Stop with the parent BS.



You are just completely wrong ,she is a decent coach .The team has decent individual talent (not as good as they think) but the chemistry is a nightmare . That bad chemistry comes from the parents and if you think chemistry does not matter you are clueless.


Of course chemistry matters. Good coaches lead and they set the tone of the team. Parents are not at practice and they are not on the sideline during games. There are teams that have had a lot more talent than Riverhead and they have not been able to win because of poor coaching.


For example?

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Re: Girls High School Lax [Re: TommyM] #286439
06/12/19 06:40 AM
06/12/19 06:40 AM

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Seems to me every parent blames the coaches when a team loses as a way to deflect from the fact that maybe the talent level is just not as good as they think or some of the kids being relatively uncoachable .

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Re: Girls High School Lax [Re: Anonymous] #286450
06/12/19 09:22 AM
06/12/19 09:22 AM

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Wonder what happened to the LI Metro 1st team at School girls? They lost 12-4 against a Mass/RI team. That’s not so good.


I think the talent pool on the Island is off from where it has been the past several years. Yes there are some excellent players but overall the pool is not as deep.


The talent pool must be down across the whole state as LI just swept the NYS titles or more likely you had an older kid and are one of those “ back in the old days “ types . Talent pool on LI is much deeper than it has ever been but yes the game has grown so there is now good players from all over .


Talent pool is way down especially with regard to high end talent. What programs had more top talent then they have had over the past 5 -6 years? GC, Manhassett, CHS, Wantagh, Massapequa, Syosset, Farmingdale, Mt Sinai, West Islip, Middle Country, Northport, Ward Melville, BBP, West Babylon, ESM etc.... Sorry, it is just not there. Some great players but no where near as many.

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Re: Girls High School Lax [Re: Anonymous] #286454
06/12/19 09:56 AM
06/12/19 09:56 AM

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Seems to me every parent blames the coaches when a team loses as a way to deflect from the fact that maybe the talent level is just not as good as they think or some of the kids being relatively uncoachable .


Not entirely true. There are some coaches that can win when they have the most talent, there are some that can not no matter how much talent they have. Some coaches can win even when they do not have the most (but have enough) talent. Some coaches are just not good. Out in the real world most of the coaches would be fired but they do not live in the real world. HS Lacrosse is a sport of the haves and the have-nots. Nassau has the Power Conference which is good but Suffolk is still a joke in terms of league competition. Thank god for the Club Teams.

In order to win a championship you must have adequate talent and at least good coaching. Great coaches will not win if they do not have adequate talent. Bad or even average coaches will not win even when they have the most talent.

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Re: Girls High School Lax [Re: Anonymous] #286459
06/12/19 10:12 AM
06/12/19 10:12 AM

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Just to be honest. I am disgruntled after last night's award dinner.
Its the same thing every year. The same coaches patting each other on the back and giving each others kids the top awards.
Riverhead, Coach of the year ! Really, Talk about doing less with more. Two all americans ,and Division 1 recruits at every position including Maryland, Hopkins, Penn State etc. etc etc . 4th place finish and 1 playoff win,, Woopie!

Mt Sinai reign is over yet the coach is still chairman of the AA committee They had a a few too, no surprise there.



Is the list of award winners made public? (web link) or is it permissible to post here? i would like to see the list of winners.

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Re: Girls High School Lax [Re: Anonymous] #286460
06/12/19 10:23 AM
06/12/19 10:23 AM

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Just to be honest. I am disgruntled after last night's award dinner.
Its the same thing every year. The same coaches patting each other on the back and giving each others kids the top awards.
Riverhead, Coach of the year ! Really, Talk about doing less with more. Two all americans ,and Division 1 recruits at every position including Maryland, Hopkins, Penn State etc. etc etc . 4th place finish and 1 playoff win,, Woopie!

Mt Sinai reign is over yet the coach is still chairman of the AA committee They had a a few too, no surprise there.



Is the list of award winners made public? (web link) or is it permissible to post here? i would like to see the list of winners.


Who were the All Americans and who was Rookie of the year?

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Re: Girls High School Lax [Re: Anonymous] #286466
06/12/19 11:12 AM
06/12/19 11:12 AM

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Just to be honest. I am disgruntled after last night's award dinner.
Its the same thing every year. The same coaches patting each other on the back and giving each others kids the top awards.
Riverhead, Coach of the year ! Really, Talk about doing less with more. Two all americans ,and Division 1 recruits at every position including Maryland, Hopkins, Penn State etc. etc etc . 4th place finish and 1 playoff win,, Woopie!

Mt Sinai reign is over yet the coach is still chairman of the AA committee They had a a few too, no surprise there.



Is the list of award winners made public? (web link) or is it permissible to post here? i would like to see the list of winners.


It’s definitely a flawed process. If you don’t play for the “right” HS/club your chances of getting an award are diminished, regardless of talent level. It’s like this every year, some that get top awards absolutely deserve it, some are certainly more questionable. I don’t see change coming anytime soon. Stinks for the deserving kids whose coaches aren’t part of the Good Ole Boys/Girls club.

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Re: Girls High School Lax [Re: Anonymous] #286470
06/12/19 12:30 PM
06/12/19 12:30 PM

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Just to be honest. I am disgruntled after last night's award dinner.
Its the same thing every year. The same coaches patting each other on the back and giving each others kids the top awards.
Riverhead, Coach of the year ! Really, Talk about doing less with more. Two all americans ,and Division 1 recruits at every position including Maryland, Hopkins, Penn State etc. etc etc . 4th place finish and 1 playoff win,, Woopie!

Mt Sinai reign is over yet the coach is still chairman of the AA committee They had a a few too, no surprise there.



Is the list of award winners made public? (web link) or is it permissible to post here? i would like to see the list of winners.


It’s definitely a flawed process. If you don’t play for the “right” HS/club your chances of getting an award are diminished, regardless of talent level. It’s like this every year, some that get top awards absolutely deserve it, some are certainly more questionable. I don’t see change coming anytime soon. Stinks for the deserving kids whose coaches aren’t part of the Good Ole Boys/Girls club.


True that all the top clubs and Schools are well represented, deservingly so. But there is also a phenomenon of parents who have kids playing outside of this competitive grouping, who have over hyped views of their kids. Take any of the top kids from any of the top club teams, they look average on that team. Put them on a club you consider “the wrong club” and they look like gods gift to lacrosse. Same exact thing with “the wrong school” . In fact I would say the exact opposite of what you are saying is true, kids on “wrong teams” stand out alone and absolutely get recognition that a much more talented girl on a stacked team may never get because there are ten kids just as good.

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Re: Girls High School Lax [Re: Anonymous] #286474
06/12/19 12:56 PM
06/12/19 12:56 PM

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Just to be honest. I am disgruntled after last night's award dinner.
Its the same thing every year. The same coaches patting each other on the back and giving each others kids the top awards.
Riverhead, Coach of the year ! Really, Talk about doing less with more. Two all americans ,and Division 1 recruits at every position including Maryland, Hopkins, Penn State etc. etc etc . 4th place finish and 1 playoff win,, Woopie!

Mt Sinai reign is over yet the coach is still chairman of the AA committee They had a a few too, no surprise there.



Is the list of award winners made public? (web link) or is it permissible to post here? i would like to see the list of winners.


It’s definitely a flawed process. If you don’t play for the “right” HS/club your chances of getting an award are diminished, regardless of talent level. It’s like this every year, some that get top awards absolutely deserve it, some are certainly more questionable. I don’t see change coming anytime soon. Stinks for the deserving kids whose coaches aren’t part of the Good Ole Boys/Girls club.


True that all the top clubs and Schools are well represented, deservingly so. But there is also a phenomenon of parents who have kids playing outside of this competitive grouping, who have over hyped views of their kids. Take any of the top kids from any of the top club teams, they look average on that team. Put them on a club you consider “the wrong club” and they look like gods gift to lacrosse. Same exact thing with “the wrong school” . In fact I would say the exact opposite of what you are saying is true, kids on “wrong teams” stand out alone and absolutely get recognition that a much more talented girl on a stacked team may never get because there are ten kids just as good.


Hmmm, im not sure about that, and correct me if I'm wrong but the teams with the most wins get the most awards. I don't know this years results but I assume Northport, ESM and BBP had the most All County / All League Awards as a team for their respective division. if you have a single really good player on a bottom rung team there is a good chance that that player will never be an All County Selection because her team doesn't win.

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Re: Girls High School Lax [Re: Anonymous] #286476
06/12/19 01:00 PM
06/12/19 01:00 PM

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Just to be honest. I am disgruntled after last night's award dinner.
Its the same thing every year. The same coaches patting each other on the back and giving each others kids the top awards.
Riverhead, Coach of the year ! Really, Talk about doing less with more. Two all americans ,and Division 1 recruits at every position including Maryland, Hopkins, Penn State etc. etc etc . 4th place finish and 1 playoff win,, Woopie!

Mt Sinai reign is over yet the coach is still chairman of the AA committee They had a a few too, no surprise there.



Is the list of award winners made public? (web link) or is it permissible to post here? i would like to see the list of winners.


It’s definitely a flawed process. If you don’t play for the “right” HS/club your chances of getting an award are diminished, regardless of talent level. It’s like this every year, some that get top awards absolutely deserve it, some are certainly more questionable. I don’t see change coming anytime soon. Stinks for the deserving kids whose coaches aren’t part of the Good Ole Boys/Girls club.


US Lacrosse AA selection is the worst. All-County (your coach picks) not political except within your HS. All-County is more socialistic and hurts strong players from programs with a lot of talent. Very good players from teams with a lot of depth do not make it. Good players from weak programs make it even if they are not as strong as many players from programs with a lot of depth who do not make it. Honorable mention AA & and AC were created to give deserving players something because they were not receiving awards due to the situation explained above. All Division/League again is up to your coach and is political within your district. All Long Island is selected by Newsday and is better than the US Lacrosse AA because they select more players and the coaches are not involved so although they can lobby Newsday if they want they can not cut deals behind closed doors. Under Armour is primarily selected by Inside Lacrosse and for the most part follows the IL Player Rankings. UA appears to be based on a body of work on the club circuit over a few years. UA at least watches the top club teams (which have the top players) compete against each other which gives a better indication than watching a non competitive HS game.

Congratulations to all of the players who receive accolades. For the strong players that were overlooked let it motivate them. Go prove everybody wrong.

BTW, I do not have a better solution. There are way too many teams, there is way too much deviation of talent from team to team, there are not enough competitive teams etc... I think most of the people involved do the best they can although I am sure there are some bad apples in the bunch.

Once again, congratulations to all who were honored.

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Re: Girls High School Lax [Re: Anonymous] #286477
06/12/19 01:06 PM
06/12/19 01:06 PM

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Seems to me every parent blames the coaches when a team loses as a way to deflect from the fact that maybe the talent level is just not as good as they think or some of the kids being relatively uncoachable .


Not entirely true. There are some coaches that can win when they have the most talent, there are some that can not no matter how much talent they have. Some coaches can win even when they do not have the most (but have enough) talent. Some coaches are just not good. Out in the real world most of the coaches would be fired but they do not live in the real world. HS Lacrosse is a sport of the haves and the have-nots. Nassau has the Power Conference which is good but Suffolk is still a joke in terms of league competition. Thank god for the Club Teams.

In order to win a championship you must have adequate talent and at least good coaching. Great coaches will not win if they do not have adequate talent. Bad or even average coaches will not win even when they have the most talent.


You really are clueless, Nassau power conference is easier than playing Division 2 in Suffolk and has been for some time. Your "power conference " team that took 4th overall lost to the team that took 20th in D2 suffolk , there are alot more examples but that is the most glaring. The power rankings within the divisions, especially D2 have made for much more competitive schedules

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Re: Girls High School Lax [Re: Anonymous] #286487
06/12/19 02:00 PM
06/12/19 02:00 PM

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You are right about the stronger teams getting more Year End Awards but All County has.to be voted upon by the coaches. The All Conference / All League awards are just handed out by the team based on how many slots they have which is calculated by your teams record. So no coaches vote for players who receive all conference, all a division, etc.

As for All American, you must be All County the previous year and then the selection committee must vote on the players nominated so if you dont meet the threshold, you would then get Honorable Mention All American or potentially nothing depending on the number of votes or lack thereof. This is extremely challenging to get and the highest recognition as it is not always for each position...they can vote for 12 players and It could be 1 defender, 6 attackers, 3 Goalies & 2 midfielders as it goes to the best players in that section/state (i.e. Section 8 NY, Section 11 NY). And just like the MVP in the NBA or the NFL, the team has to be good which is why you see the perennial power programs with more AA selections but they will give it to a player not on a good team is deemed worthy. Just look at the past selections.

All Long Island by Newsday is typically for the players that perform the best in the playoffs in front of Newdsay with the other obvious players they know are unanimous AA so it doesn't necessarily show the 'top' players/top player on a team. Still a nice achievement.

I liked the BOTC All Long island Teams as they had all of the 2019 HS All Amerigans on there which just came out today and so they certainly got it right and with players from all over named on their individual success for the season and careers. It resembled the NCAA All Americans with the 1st, 2nd & 3rd Team and Honorable Mention by each position..

Either way, nothing is going to be perfect and it's nice to see players getting recognized by multiple platforms


Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Just to be honest. I am disgruntled after last night's award dinner.
Its the same thing every year. The same coaches patting each other on the back and giving each others kids the top awards.
Riverhead, Coach of the year ! Really, Talk about doing less with more. Two all americans ,and Division 1 recruits at every position including Maryland, Hopkins, Penn State etc. etc etc . 4th place finish and 1 playoff win,, Woopie!

Mt Sinai reign is over yet the coach is still chairman of the AA committee They had a a few too, no surprise there.



Is the list of award winners made public? (web link) or is it permissible to post here? i would like to see the list of winners.


It’s definitely a flawed process. If you don’t play for the “right” HS/club your chances of getting an award are diminished, regardless of talent level. It’s like this every year, some that get top awards absolutely deserve it, some are certainly more questionable. I don’t see change coming anytime soon. Stinks for the deserving kids whose coaches aren’t part of the Good Ole Boys/Girls club.


US Lacrosse AA selection is the worst. All-County (your coach picks) not political except within your HS. All-County is more socialistic and hurts strong players from programs with a lot of talent. Very good players from teams with a lot of depth do not make it. Good players from weak programs make it even if they are not as strong as many players from programs with a lot of depth who do not make it. Honorable mention AA & and AC were created to give deserving players something because they were not receiving awards due to the situation explained above. All Division/League again is up to your coach and is political within your district. All Long Island is selected by Newsday and is better than the US Lacrosse AA because they select more players and the coaches are not involved so although they can lobby Newsday if they want they can not cut deals behind closed doors. Under Armour is primarily selected by Inside Lacrosse and for the most part follows the IL Player Rankings. UA appears to be based on a body of work on the club circuit over a few years. UA at least watches the top club teams (which have the top players) compete against each other which gives a better indication than watching a non competitive HS game.

Congratulations to all of the players who receive accolades. For the strong players that were overlooked let it motivate them. Go prove everybody wrong.

BTW, I do not have a better solution. There are way too many teams, there is way too much deviation of talent from team to team, there are not enough competitive teams etc... I think most of the people involved do the best they can although I am sure there are some bad apples in the bunch.

Once again, congratulations to all who were honored.


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Re: Girls High School Lax [Re: Anonymous] #286489
06/12/19 02:15 PM
06/12/19 02:15 PM

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Just to be honest. I am disgruntled after last night's award dinner.
Its the same thing every year. The same coaches patting each other on the back and giving each others kids the top awards.
Riverhead, Coach of the year ! Really, Talk about doing less with more. Two all americans ,and Division 1 recruits at every position including Maryland, Hopkins, Penn State etc. etc etc . 4th place finish and 1 playoff win,, Woopie!

Mt Sinai reign is over yet the coach is still chairman of the AA committee They had a a few too, no surprise there.



Is the list of award winners made public? (web link) or is it permissible to post here? i would like to see the list of winners.


It’s definitely a flawed process. If you don’t play for the “right” HS/club your chances of getting an award are diminished, regardless of talent level. It’s like this every year, some that get top awards absolutely deserve it, some are certainly more questionable. I don’t see change coming anytime soon. Stinks for the deserving kids whose coaches aren’t part of the Good Ole Boys/Girls club.


True that all the top clubs and Schools are well represented, deservingly so. But there is also a phenomenon of parents who have kids playing outside of this competitive grouping, who have over hyped views of their kids. Take any of the top kids from any of the top club teams, they look average on that team. Put them on a club you consider “the wrong club” and they look like gods gift to lacrosse. Same exact thing with “the wrong school” . In fact I would say the exact opposite of what you are saying is true, kids on “wrong teams” stand out alone and absolutely get recognition that a much more talented girl on a stacked team may never get because there are ten kids just as good.


Hmmm, im not sure about that, and correct me if I'm wrong but the teams with the most wins get the most awards. I don't know this years results but I assume Northport, ESM and BBP had the most All County / All League Awards as a team for their respective division. if you have a single really good player on a bottom rung team there is a good chance that that player will never be an All County Selection because her team doesn't win.


Conversely, an OK kid on a top team may look better than they actually are. They may be benefiting from the really good players on their team. Take them off a top team and they put them on a lower team with little to no support and they might not be able to hold their own let alone carry a team.

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