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What's Your View? Club's Recruiting Role
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Several of our message board threads have been discussing what some clubs are (or are not) doing as part of the College Recruiting Cycle. While BOTC's College Forum covers the NCAA logistics and stages a Q&A for parents and player on recruiting, there appear to be many spoken and unspoken expectations that parents and players alike have of their club teams in this process.

BOTC is introducing this thread to allow contributors to offer their thoughts on what is currently included with their club participation for recruiting. More importantly, we are seeking ideas on what our contributors would find useful in addition to the current model.

What's Your View? We would like to hear it.

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Do the clubs tell their players about every college cosch that calls them?

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Do college coaches contact a club team's coach, or the director/owner of the overall club? And how do they make that distinction?

Many coaches of individual club teams are young guys that either just graduated from or are still in college. While they are no doubt great players and good coaches, they may not be the ideal person to initiate the college recruiting process.




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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Do college coaches contact a club team's coach, or the director/owner of the overall club? And how do they make that distinction?

Many coaches of individual club teams are young guys that either just graduated from or are still in college. While they are no doubt great players and good coaches, they may not be the ideal person to initiate the college recruiting process.






Is this the reason why Express send their kids to elite D1 and 91 doesn't?

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It has been brought to our attention by a very reliable inside source that several calls have been made to our 2017's HS coaching staff. We were never informed of these calls Apparently, these calls have been tabled until they feel its appropriate to discuss.

Our club coach, on the other hand, has gone so far out of his way to accomocate the numerous calls from coaches and to act as a liaison, that we feel that we can never even begin to repay his kindness. We never asked for a single bit of help, yet the club coach has been nothing short of amazing.

With him, we would never have known about the amount of interest in our son.


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Originally Posted by Anonymous
It has been brought to our attention by a very reliable inside source that several calls have been made to our 2017's HS coaching staff. We were never informed of these calls Apparently, these calls have been tabled until they feel its appropriate to discuss.

Our club coach, on the other hand, has gone so far out of his way to accomocate the numerous calls from coaches and to act as a liaison, that we feel that we can never even begin to repay his kindness. We never asked for a single bit of help, yet the club coach has been nothing short of amazing.

With him, we would never have known about the amount of interest in our son.



That sounds great, but it would be nice to know what club, and coach, if you really want to get that coach the credit he deserves! Or, if you don't want to name names, at least let us know what club, which would a great way for you to repay!

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I believe the clubs role is to act as an adviser. Parents will do what they think they should based on all the information that is thrown at them. I think one of the real values of a club is having directors that have relationships and know the landscape of recruiting.

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So far the most proactive club activity I have heard of is from Team Elevate. I just saw this on another message board. They have orgnied a bus trip to a bunch of schools in the northeast. It is a great start to get many of the girls exposed to what to expect as part of the recruitng process (visiting schools meeting players and coaches, seeing the differences between schools, etc.) and I think that other clubs will follow along this path. God job Elevate (no not an Elevate parent - at least not this year).

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
So far the most proactive club activity I have heard of is from Team Elevate. I just saw this on another message board. They have orgnied a bus trip to a bunch of schools in the northeast. It is a great start to get many of the girls exposed to what to expect as part of the recruitng process (visiting schools meeting players and coaches, seeing the differences between schools, etc.) and I think that other clubs will follow along this path. God job Elevate (no not an Elevate parent - at least not this year).


That is a great idea, and hopefully other clubs do the same thing! Good luck with them next year...just be careful when making that decision to switch.

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Replayed from the College Forum : The New [lacrosse] Times has an article in Sunday's edition covering the recruiting of players before their High School careers begin. While focused on soccer, there are many references to lacrosse including the conflict between the IMLCA and the NCAA.

This is an excellent article which echoes many of the themes expressed and discussed here on the BOTC College Forum.

Committing to Play for a College, Then Starting 9th Grade

Some key quotes from the article follow.
  • “The most frustrating piece is that we haven’t been able to get any traction with the N.C.A.A.,” said Dom Starsia, the men’s lacrosse coach at Virginia. “There’s a sense that the N.C.A.A. doesn’t want to address this topic at all.”
  • At a meeting of women’s lacrosse coaches in December, nearly every group session was dedicated to complaints about how quickly the trend was moving and discussions about how it might be reversed. In 2012, the Intercollegiate Men’s Lacrosse Coaches Association proposed rule changes to the N.C.A.A. to curtail early recruiting. But the N.C.A.A. declined to take them up, pointing to a moratorium on new recruiting rules.
  • The early recruiting system has given significant power to club coaches, who serve as gatekeepers and agents for their players.

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Starsia is a hypocrite. Everytime one of these articles come out, they quote him saying some nonsense like this. Always passing the buck. It's the NCAA's problem, they won't do anything. I think Starsia has enough clout to reach a consensus with other top coaches and agree not to accept verbal committments before a player's junior year. Hold a press conference and shame the NCAA for their inaction and indifference. I won't hold my breath waiting for this to happen. Last time I checked Virginia had 4 2017 verbals. If UNC doesn't verbal the 1st eighth grader, I would put my money on UVA.

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What they can/should agree to is dissolving their gentelemen's agreement to stop recruiting each other's early commits. I can't see the schools that don't early recruit honoring these early commits.

This will put an end to the early nonsense. Once one of these 2017s have a few semesters of grades and PSAT/SAT scores I wouldn't be surprised to see a switch to an Ivy or similar roster for some these boys.

If Harvard/Yale/Princeton knock on your door are you really going to turn them away because you early committed to a Big Ten or A-Sun school? I know a lot of great people come out of these other schools, but if you thought your boy could be successful would you say no to an Ivy or Duke?

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Many academically qualified kids turn down Ivies for a number of reasons. 1) not much support for athletes as far as class selection, and real academic advising for athletes. 2) very little athletic culture at an ivy. Not much support from the non athlete student body. These are Division 1 athletes that are providing a service for the school and they do not receive the same support with regards to physical and weight trainers, nutritionists, physical therapy and academic support. You can say what you want about athletes should not need tutors or advisors but when other schools offer such significant support many choose to go non-ivy. 4) no athletic $$$$. You can say what you want about early recruiting but it definitely comes with significant $$$. 50% or more from a public ivy such as Virginia, Michigan or UNC trumps an ivy any day. The real benefits of an is grad school. Take the money you save in athletic scholarship and put towards grad school!!!

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Many academically qualified kids turn down Ivies for a number of reasons.

1) not much support for athletes as far as class selection, and real academic advising for athletes.

2) very little athletic culture at an ivy. Not much support from the non athlete student body.
You are looking at the Ivy institutions through the wrong prism. Out of a pool of nearly 30,000 applicants to Yale, 2,031 were accepted and 1,360 chose to come to campus this Fall 2013.

Harvard's yield (percentage of students accepting after being given an offer) was 82% and Yale was 70%. Dartmouth was the lowest Ivy with a yield of 48.5%. Although not specifically an Ivy, Stanford's yield was 76.7%.

These are incredibly high numbers - the best in the country. The thing you have to consider is the correlation factor between these schools. Simply stated, successful Ivy League applicants will typically get acceptances from more than one Ivy school meaning accepting one impacts the yield with all others.

Originally Posted by Anonymous
These are Division 1 athletes that are providing a service for the school and they do not receive the same support with regards to physical and weight trainers, nutritionists, physical therapy and academic support. You can say what you want about athletes should not need tutors or advisors but when other schools offer such significant support many choose to go non-ivy.
Again, the concept at the very top schools is that you need to be a very top student. Individualized tutoring sessions can be purchased, usually with cash-starved graduate students, but these are not a function typically supplied for anyone at top level institutions.

Originally Posted by Anonymous
4) no athletic $$$$. You can say what you want about early recruiting but it definitely comes with significant $$$. 50% or more from a public ivy such as Virginia, Michigan or UNC trumps an ivy any day. The real benefits of an is grad school. Take the money you save in athletic scholarship and put towards grad school!!!
We could have a long debate about the value of an Ivy League degree versus any of those schools named. Even within the Ivy League schools, there are differentiations in various disciplines.

You would need to explain what criteria you are using to decide between two or more schools to determine that one offer trumps another. Defining the factors that differentiate offers in an analytical as opposed to emotional manner underpins the Top Ten Academic and Athletic school choices that we often stress. After all, how to you know that a school belongs in your Top Ten?

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Many academically qualified kids turn down Ivies for a number of reasons. 1) not much support for athletes as far as class selection, and real academic advising for athletes. 2) very little athletic culture at an ivy. Not much support from the non athlete student body. These are Division 1 athletes that are providing a service for the school and they do not receive the same support with regards to physical and weight trainers, nutritionists, physical therapy and academic support. You can say what you want about athletes should not need tutors or advisors but when other schools offer such significant support many choose to go non-ivy. 4) no athletic $$$$. You can say what you want about early recruiting but it definitely comes with significant $$$. 50% or more from a public ivy such as Virginia, Michigan or UNC trumps an ivy any day. The real benefits of an is grad school. Take the money you save in athletic scholarship and put towards grad school!!!


Please don't coin a term "public IVY's" to substantiate your extremely biased position. What exactly is a "public IVY? kind of like kids rebadging their Hondas with BMW M badges thinking no one can tell the difference.
Had you been to an IVY, you might see that your prejudices are unfounded.

Cage makes an accurate assessment of the rest of your rant. The real value of your "real benefit" is getting accepted to a grad school, of which the high performing IVY kids stand a greater chance of being accepted to as opposed to your "public IVY's"

As an aside, there have been many who have attempted on these forums to state in the past that as CEO's or owners/presidents of their company's; that they put little value in resume's from IVY grads. I can tell you as the partner in a corporation that starts our potential partners at 350-450K per year, that the IVY grads get first looks. Just the way it is. We place high value in high achievements and recognize the potential of a prospective partner with higher credentials.

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Many academically qualified kids turn down Ivies for a number of reasons. 1) not much support for athletes as far as class selection, and real academic advising for athletes. 2) very little athletic culture at an ivy. Not much support from the non athlete student body. These are Division 1 athletes that are providing a service for the school and they do not receive the same support with regards to physical and weight trainers, nutritionists, physical therapy and academic support. You can say what you want about athletes should not need tutors or advisors but when other schools offer such significant support many choose to go non-ivy. 4) no athletic $$$$. You can say what you want about early recruiting but it definitely comes with significant $$$. 50% or more from a public ivy such as Virginia, Michigan or UNC trumps an ivy any day. The real benefits of an is grad school. Take the money you save in athletic scholarship and put towards grad school!!!


Please don't coin a term "public IVY's" to substantiate your extremely biased position. What exactly is a "public IVY? kind of like kids rebadging their Hondas with BMW M badges thinking no one can tell the difference.
Had you been to an IVY, you might see that your prejudices are unfounded.

Cage makes an accurate assessment of the rest of your rant. The real value of your "real benefit" is getting accepted to a grad school, of which the high performing IVY kids stand a greater chance of being accepted to as opposed to your "public IVY's"

As an aside, there have been many who have attempted on these forums to state in the past that as CEO's or owners/presidents of their company's; that they put little value in resume's from IVY grads. I can tell you as the partner in a corporation that starts our potential partners at 350-450K per year, that the IVY grads get first looks. Just the way it is. We place high value in high achievements and recognize the potential of a prospective partner with higher credentials.

Blah, Blah, Blah. All the kids who don't attend Ivies are worthless and won't amount to anything. keep telling yourself that.

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Ivy League schools are good for some,and not so good for others. Some kids will excel in that atmosphere, others will not. Every one throws out stats about post grad acceptance, and annual starting salaries, and that is all good, but how many Ivy grads go unable to find work in there chosen career and wind up with tremendous debt? Yes many Ivy students get $300,000.00 dollar jobs, but so do kids from Stony Brook at a cost of what, $10,000.00 per year for in state kids. If you live on the north shore and money is no object, than the Ivy's are for you, but these days most players no longer come from Manhasset or Garden City, so money becomes a factor. I'm glad you're a C.E.O. of a company that starts grads at &300,000.00 , but most of us are plumbers and electricians , and we would appreciate it if you stopped looking down your nose at us

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What happens to the kid who is a great athlete but has a learning disability and works night and day for an 85 average? Are there any D1 or D 2 schools that recognize a hard worker who will never be on the honor roll?

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
What happens to the kid who is a great athlete but has a learning disability and works night and day for an 85 average? Are there any D1 or D 2 schools that recognize a hard worker who will never be on the honor roll?


D 2 will be able to offer a 20-30% athletic but with the grades I have never heard of any academic $ for any average below 90 . You can get academic $ for SAT scores over 1000. good luck.

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
What happens to the kid who is a great athlete but has a learning disability and works night and day for an 85 average? Are there any D1 or D 2 schools that recognize a hard worker who will never be on the honor roll?


Not according to Mr. Ivy! Your kid will get far in life with a good work ethic. Wish you the best!

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Ivy League schools are good for some,and not so good for others. Some kids will excel in that atmosphere, others will not. Every one throws out stats about post grad acceptance, and annual starting salaries, and that is all good, but how many Ivy grads go unable to find work in there chosen career and wind up with tremendous debt? Yes many Ivy students get $300,000.00 dollar jobs, but so do kids from Stony Brook at a cost of what, $10,000.00 per year for in state kids. If you live on the north shore and money is no object, than the Ivy's are for you, but these days most players no longer come from Manhasset or Garden City, so money becomes a factor. I'm glad you're a C.E.O. of a company that starts grads at &300,000.00 , but most of us are plumbers and electricians , and we would appreciate it if you stopped looking down your nose at us


Actually if you make less than $60k, Harvard will give you 100% grants. If you make between 60k and 150k they will cover 90%. Most other Ivy's have something similar.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/12/23/s...-as-sports-teams-in-ivies-rise.html?_r=0

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An 80 average and 1000 SAT will get you into any of the local D-2 schools - LIU-Post, Adelphi, NYIT, Dowling, Molloy. Maybe not all programs, but general admission. Some will accept 900 SAT and high 70's. They need bodies to pay tuition. I am not putting them down, they provide a need. I think Adephi and some of the NYIT programs would be tougher to get into. Most of these schools are actively coming to high schools to enroll seniors for same day admission. They have declining enrollments and some have major debts.

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Ivy League schools are good for some,and not so good for others. Some kids will excel in that atmosphere, others will not. Every one throws out stats about post grad acceptance, and annual starting salaries, and that is all good, but how many Ivy grads go unable to find work in there chosen career and wind up with tremendous debt? Yes many Ivy students get $300,000.00 dollar jobs, but so do kids from Stony Brook at a cost of what, $10,000.00 per year for in state kids. If you live on the north shore and money is no object, than the Ivy's are for you, but these days most players no longer come from Manhasset or Garden City, so money becomes a factor. I'm glad you're a C.E.O. of a company that starts grads at &300,000.00 , but most of us are plumbers and electricians , and we would appreciate it if you stopped looking down your nose at us


Actually if you make less than $60k, Harvard will give you 100% grants. If you make between 60k and 150k they will cover 90%. Most other Ivy's have something similar.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/12/23/s...-as-sports-teams-in-ivies-rise.html?_r=0


So according to the article, If our family makes 140,000 a year, I would have to pay about 21,000 (based on the article stating 10-18% on a sliding scale) Is that just tuition or total? Still a lot if you have more than one kid in school. Most of the better D1 programs can reduce that by about 7-8k with a good athletic scholarship. Those kids can also get quite a bit of additional academic money if they qualify.

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Ivy League schools are good for some,and not so good for others. Some kids will excel in that atmosphere, others will not. Every one throws out stats about post grad acceptance, and annual starting salaries, and that is all good, but how many Ivy grads go unable to find work in there chosen career and wind up with tremendous debt? Yes many Ivy students get $300,000.00 dollar jobs, but so do kids from Stony Brook at a cost of what, $10,000.00 per year for in state kids. If you live on the north shore and money is no object, than the Ivy's are for you, but these days most players no longer come from Manhasset or Garden City, so money becomes a factor. I'm glad you're a C.E.O. of a company that starts grads at &300,000.00 , but most of us are plumbers and electricians , and we would appreciate it if you stopped looking down your nose at us

I don't see how there was any looking down of noses. It was simply stated that in that guys particular company; IVY grad school grads get a serious look wrt applications.

It cannot be disputed that many IVY grads become pretty successful.
I am sure that the liberal arts majors are contributing heavily the the unemployed IVY grad statistic. ;-)

Do bad at any school and your job prospects are pretty low. Do great at any school and they are correspondingly higher. Do great at an IVY and there is a good chance that you won't be unemployed.

And I'm pretty sure any plumber worth his salt can readily pay for an IVY school tuition !!
They charge as much or more than lawyers !! smile

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Ivy League schools are good for some,and not so good for others. Some kids will excel in that atmosphere, others will not. Every one throws out stats about post grad acceptance, and annual starting salaries, and that is all good, but how many Ivy grads go unable to find work in there chosen career and wind up with tremendous debt? Yes many Ivy students get $300,000.00 dollar jobs, but so do kids from Stony Brook at a cost of what, $10,000.00 per year for in state kids. If you live on the north shore and money is no object, than the Ivy's are for you, but these days most players no longer come from Manhasset or Garden City, so money becomes a factor. I'm glad you're a C.E.O. of a company that starts grads at &300,000.00 , but most of us are plumbers and electricians , and we would appreciate it if you stopped looking down your nose at us

I don't see how there was any looking down of noses. It was simply stated that in that guys particular company; IVY grad school grads get a serious look wrt applications.

It cannot be disputed that many IVY grads become pretty successful.
I am sure that the liberal arts majors are contributing heavily the the unemployed IVY grad statistic. ;-)

Do bad at any school and your job prospects are pretty low. Do great at any school and they are correspondingly higher. Do great at an IVY and there is a good chance that you won't be unemployed.

And I'm pretty sure any plumber worth his salt can readily pay for an IVY school tuition !!
They charge as much or more than lawyers !! smile

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Clearly the right major from an Ivy usually trumps most big State universities even your "public" Ivy. A student-athlete at an Ivy means a lot more than a student-athlete at State U- sorry. Every job recruiter knows that the admissions standards for an athlete at great state U is so much lower than any Ivy. And if they keep interviewing football and basketball players from those schools the value of the student-athlete degree from XZY university willcontinue to fall. Especially the big time schools that strongly encourage their athletes to only have "soft" majors. If you are an athlete in a sport with no future out of college, are smart, and can afford it or get enough aid, you would be foolish not to go Ivy- for real...

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Originally Posted by Powderfinger
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Ivy League schools are good for some,and not so good for others. Some kids will excel in that atmosphere, others will not. Every one throws out stats about post grad acceptance, and annual starting salaries, and that is all good, but how many Ivy grads go unable to find work in there chosen career and wind up with tremendous debt? Yes many Ivy students get $300,000.00 dollar jobs, but so do kids from Stony Brook at a cost of what, $10,000.00 per year for in state kids. If you live on the north shore and money is no object, than the Ivy's are for you, but these days most players no longer come from Manhasset or Garden City, so money becomes a factor. I'm glad you're a C.E.O. of a company that starts grads at &300,000.00 , but most of us are plumbers and electricians , and we would appreciate it if you stopped looking down your nose at us

I don't see how there was any looking down of noses. It was simply stated that in that guys particular company; IVY grad school grads get a serious look wrt applications.

It cannot be disputed that many IVY grads become pretty successful.
I am sure that the liberal arts majors are contributing heavily the the unemployed IVY grad statistic. ;-)

Do bad at any school and your job prospects are pretty low. Do great at any school and they are correspondingly higher. Do great at an IVY and there is a good chance that you won't be unemployed.

And I'm pretty sure any plumber worth his salt can readily pay for an IVY school tuition !!
They charge as much or more than lawyers !! smile


Ack, smartphone won and my fingers fumbled. I was trying to post a "Like!" to this.

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