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What's Your View? Club's Recruiting Role #52060
01/24/14 04:26 PM
01/24/14 04:26 PM
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Several of our message board threads have been discussing what some clubs are (or are not) doing as part of the College Recruiting Cycle. While BOTC's College Forum covers the NCAA logistics and stages a Q&A for parents and player on recruiting, there appear to be many spoken and unspoken expectations that parents and players alike have of their club teams in this process.

BOTC is introducing this thread to allow contributors to offer their thoughts on what is currently included with their club participation for recruiting. More importantly, we are seeking ideas on what our contributors would find useful in addition to the current model.

What's Your View? We would like to hear it.

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Re: What's Your View? Club's Recruiting Role [Re: CageSage] #52074
01/24/14 10:16 PM
01/24/14 10:16 PM

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Do the clubs tell their players about every college cosch that calls them?

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Re: What's Your View? Club's Recruiting Role [Re: CageSage] #52078
01/25/14 09:34 AM
01/25/14 09:34 AM

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Do college coaches contact a club team's coach, or the director/owner of the overall club? And how do they make that distinction?

Many coaches of individual club teams are young guys that either just graduated from or are still in college. While they are no doubt great players and good coaches, they may not be the ideal person to initiate the college recruiting process.




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Re: What's Your View? Club's Recruiting Role [Re: Anonymous] #52094
01/25/14 06:26 PM
01/25/14 06:26 PM

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Do college coaches contact a club team's coach, or the director/owner of the overall club? And how do they make that distinction?

Many coaches of individual club teams are young guys that either just graduated from or are still in college. While they are no doubt great players and good coaches, they may not be the ideal person to initiate the college recruiting process.






Is this the reason why Express send their kids to elite D1 and 91 doesn't?

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Re: What's Your View? Club's Recruiting Role [Re: Anonymous] #52132
01/26/14 10:36 PM
01/26/14 10:36 PM

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It has been brought to our attention by a very reliable inside source that several calls have been made to our 2017's HS coaching staff. We were never informed of these calls Apparently, these calls have been tabled until they feel its appropriate to discuss.

Our club coach, on the other hand, has gone so far out of his way to accomocate the numerous calls from coaches and to act as a liaison, that we feel that we can never even begin to repay his kindness. We never asked for a single bit of help, yet the club coach has been nothing short of amazing.

With him, we would never have known about the amount of interest in our son.


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Re: What's Your View? Club's Recruiting Role [Re: Anonymous] #52136
01/27/14 12:01 AM
01/27/14 12:01 AM

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
It has been brought to our attention by a very reliable inside source that several calls have been made to our 2017's HS coaching staff. We were never informed of these calls Apparently, these calls have been tabled until they feel its appropriate to discuss.

Our club coach, on the other hand, has gone so far out of his way to accomocate the numerous calls from coaches and to act as a liaison, that we feel that we can never even begin to repay his kindness. We never asked for a single bit of help, yet the club coach has been nothing short of amazing.

With him, we would never have known about the amount of interest in our son.



That sounds great, but it would be nice to know what club, and coach, if you really want to get that coach the credit he deserves! Or, if you don't want to name names, at least let us know what club, which would a great way for you to repay!

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Re: What's Your View? Club's Recruiting Role [Re: Anonymous] #52138
01/27/14 08:16 AM
01/27/14 08:16 AM

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I believe the clubs role is to act as an adviser. Parents will do what they think they should based on all the information that is thrown at them. I think one of the real values of a club is having directors that have relationships and know the landscape of recruiting.

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Re: What's Your View? Club's Recruiting Role [Re: Anonymous] #52140
01/27/14 08:39 AM
01/27/14 08:39 AM

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So far the most proactive club activity I have heard of is from Team Elevate. I just saw this on another message board. They have orgnied a bus trip to a bunch of schools in the northeast. It is a great start to get many of the girls exposed to what to expect as part of the recruitng process (visiting schools meeting players and coaches, seeing the differences between schools, etc.) and I think that other clubs will follow along this path. God job Elevate (no not an Elevate parent - at least not this year).

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Re: What's Your View? Club's Recruiting Role [Re: Anonymous] #52146
01/27/14 10:01 AM
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Originally Posted by Anonymous
So far the most proactive club activity I have heard of is from Team Elevate. I just saw this on another message board. They have orgnied a bus trip to a bunch of schools in the northeast. It is a great start to get many of the girls exposed to what to expect as part of the recruitng process (visiting schools meeting players and coaches, seeing the differences between schools, etc.) and I think that other clubs will follow along this path. God job Elevate (no not an Elevate parent - at least not this year).


That is a great idea, and hopefully other clubs do the same thing! Good luck with them next year...just be careful when making that decision to switch.

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Re: What's Your View? Club's Recruiting Role [Re: Anonymous] #52158
01/27/14 12:16 PM
01/27/14 12:16 PM
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Replayed from the College Forum : The New [lacrosse] Times has an article in Sunday's edition covering the recruiting of players before their High School careers begin. While focused on soccer, there are many references to lacrosse including the conflict between the IMLCA and the NCAA.

This is an excellent article which echoes many of the themes expressed and discussed here on the BOTC College Forum.

Committing to Play for a College, Then Starting 9th Grade

Some key quotes from the article follow.
  • “The most frustrating piece is that we haven’t been able to get any traction with the N.C.A.A.,” said Dom Starsia, the men’s lacrosse coach at Virginia. “There’s a sense that the N.C.A.A. doesn’t want to address this topic at all.”
  • At a meeting of women’s lacrosse coaches in December, nearly every group session was dedicated to complaints about how quickly the trend was moving and discussions about how it might be reversed. In 2012, the Intercollegiate Men’s Lacrosse Coaches Association proposed rule changes to the N.C.A.A. to curtail early recruiting. But the N.C.A.A. declined to take them up, pointing to a moratorium on new recruiting rules.
  • The early recruiting system has given significant power to club coaches, who serve as gatekeepers and agents for their players.

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Re: What's Your View? Club's Recruiting Role [Re: CageSage] #52165
01/27/14 01:23 PM
01/27/14 01:23 PM

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Starsia is a hypocrite. Everytime one of these articles come out, they quote him saying some nonsense like this. Always passing the buck. It's the NCAA's problem, they won't do anything. I think Starsia has enough clout to reach a consensus with other top coaches and agree not to accept verbal committments before a player's junior year. Hold a press conference and shame the NCAA for their inaction and indifference. I won't hold my breath waiting for this to happen. Last time I checked Virginia had 4 2017 verbals. If UNC doesn't verbal the 1st eighth grader, I would put my money on UVA.

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Re: What's Your View? Club's Recruiting Role [Re: Anonymous] #52169
01/27/14 01:41 PM
01/27/14 01:41 PM

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What they can/should agree to is dissolving their gentelemen's agreement to stop recruiting each other's early commits. I can't see the schools that don't early recruit honoring these early commits.

This will put an end to the early nonsense. Once one of these 2017s have a few semesters of grades and PSAT/SAT scores I wouldn't be surprised to see a switch to an Ivy or similar roster for some these boys.

If Harvard/Yale/Princeton knock on your door are you really going to turn them away because you early committed to a Big Ten or A-Sun school? I know a lot of great people come out of these other schools, but if you thought your boy could be successful would you say no to an Ivy or Duke?

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Re: What's Your View? Club's Recruiting Role [Re: Anonymous] #52373
01/30/14 09:54 PM
01/30/14 09:54 PM

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Many academically qualified kids turn down Ivies for a number of reasons. 1) not much support for athletes as far as class selection, and real academic advising for athletes. 2) very little athletic culture at an ivy. Not much support from the non athlete student body. These are Division 1 athletes that are providing a service for the school and they do not receive the same support with regards to physical and weight trainers, nutritionists, physical therapy and academic support. You can say what you want about athletes should not need tutors or advisors but when other schools offer such significant support many choose to go non-ivy. 4) no athletic $$$$. You can say what you want about early recruiting but it definitely comes with significant $$$. 50% or more from a public ivy such as Virginia, Michigan or UNC trumps an ivy any day. The real benefits of an is grad school. Take the money you save in athletic scholarship and put towards grad school!!!

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Re: What's Your View? Club's Recruiting Role [Re: Anonymous] #52375
01/30/14 10:24 PM
01/30/14 10:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Many academically qualified kids turn down Ivies for a number of reasons.

1) not much support for athletes as far as class selection, and real academic advising for athletes.

2) very little athletic culture at an ivy. Not much support from the non athlete student body.
You are looking at the Ivy institutions through the wrong prism. Out of a pool of nearly 30,000 applicants to Yale, 2,031 were accepted and 1,360 chose to come to campus this Fall 2013.

Harvard's yield (percentage of students accepting after being given an offer) was 82% and Yale was 70%. Dartmouth was the lowest Ivy with a yield of 48.5%. Although not specifically an Ivy, Stanford's yield was 76.7%.

These are incredibly high numbers - the best in the country. The thing you have to consider is the correlation factor between these schools. Simply stated, successful Ivy League applicants will typically get acceptances from more than one Ivy school meaning accepting one impacts the yield with all others.

Originally Posted by Anonymous
These are Division 1 athletes that are providing a service for the school and they do not receive the same support with regards to physical and weight trainers, nutritionists, physical therapy and academic support. You can say what you want about athletes should not need tutors or advisors but when other schools offer such significant support many choose to go non-ivy.
Again, the concept at the very top schools is that you need to be a very top student. Individualized tutoring sessions can be purchased, usually with cash-starved graduate students, but these are not a function typically supplied for anyone at top level institutions.

Originally Posted by Anonymous
4) no athletic $$$$. You can say what you want about early recruiting but it definitely comes with significant $$$. 50% or more from a public ivy such as Virginia, Michigan or UNC trumps an ivy any day. The real benefits of an is grad school. Take the money you save in athletic scholarship and put towards grad school!!!
We could have a long debate about the value of an Ivy League degree versus any of those schools named. Even within the Ivy League schools, there are differentiations in various disciplines.

You would need to explain what criteria you are using to decide between two or more schools to determine that one offer trumps another. Defining the factors that differentiate offers in an analytical as opposed to emotional manner underpins the Top Ten Academic and Athletic school choices that we often stress. After all, how to you know that a school belongs in your Top Ten?

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Re: What's Your View? Club's Recruiting Role [Re: Anonymous] #52380
01/31/14 12:09 AM
01/31/14 12:09 AM

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Many academically qualified kids turn down Ivies for a number of reasons. 1) not much support for athletes as far as class selection, and real academic advising for athletes. 2) very little athletic culture at an ivy. Not much support from the non athlete student body. These are Division 1 athletes that are providing a service for the school and they do not receive the same support with regards to physical and weight trainers, nutritionists, physical therapy and academic support. You can say what you want about athletes should not need tutors or advisors but when other schools offer such significant support many choose to go non-ivy. 4) no athletic $$$$. You can say what you want about early recruiting but it definitely comes with significant $$$. 50% or more from a public ivy such as Virginia, Michigan or UNC trumps an ivy any day. The real benefits of an is grad school. Take the money you save in athletic scholarship and put towards grad school!!!


Please don't coin a term "public IVY's" to substantiate your extremely biased position. What exactly is a "public IVY? kind of like kids rebadging their Hondas with BMW M badges thinking no one can tell the difference.
Had you been to an IVY, you might see that your prejudices are unfounded.

Cage makes an accurate assessment of the rest of your rant. The real value of your "real benefit" is getting accepted to a grad school, of which the high performing IVY kids stand a greater chance of being accepted to as opposed to your "public IVY's"

As an aside, there have been many who have attempted on these forums to state in the past that as CEO's or owners/presidents of their company's; that they put little value in resume's from IVY grads. I can tell you as the partner in a corporation that starts our potential partners at 350-450K per year, that the IVY grads get first looks. Just the way it is. We place high value in high achievements and recognize the potential of a prospective partner with higher credentials.

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