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Re: Nassau PAL vs Suffolk PAL
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that is how you are supposed to divide teams for nassau pal. if you have more than 1 town team at an age group split them as evenly as possible .


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Originally Posted by Hawklax
that is how you are supposed to divide teams for nassau pal. if you have more than 1 town team at an age group split them as evenly as possible .

Not in 5th and 6th grade. Thankfully, last year PAL started to allow towns to have "a" and "b" teams in these grade levels.

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Re: Nassau PAL vs Suffolk PAL
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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Hawklax
that is how you are supposed to divide teams for nassau pal. if you have more than 1 town team at an age group split them as evenly as possible .

Not in 5th and 6th grade. Thankfully, last year PAL started to allow towns to have "a" and "b" teams in these grade levels.


Didn't suffolk PAL have A,B,C divisions last year?

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Is it possible for a town to have two equally divided teams and play them in a lower conference as opposed to creating an A and B team. This is in regrd to a 5th grade program. Our directors don't want to have evaluations and deal with the politics of picking who is on the A or B team so they will have two mixed level teams which benefits no one. The better players cannot learn advanced level plays because there aren't enough good players per team to do it and the players who need to focus on developing the fundamentals don't get the support they need. No win siuation

I agree with your opinion. It does not benefit a player that needs more development or is just starting out, to play with advanced players by the time you are in 5th grade.
Even if the coach has good intentions, the more advanced players will pass the ball to other advanced kids. These developing kids need touches to grow as a player. If they play with and against players that are in a similar stage of development, they will actually be involved. In addition, the kids that are further along in their development, will be properly challenged by playing against similar players.
That being said, typically there are 3 or 4 divisions in 5th grade PAL. Last year there were 4. They were called A,1,2 and 3. I would think division 2 could be appropriate to your group.

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the PAL "rule" about even teams is making the league obsolete. There is a reason all these for profit clubs are successful fielding 2nd and 3rd grade teams. its become a playdate

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
the PAL "rule" about even teams is making the league obsolete. There is a reason all these for profit clubs are successful fielding 2nd and 3rd grade teams. its become a playdate

PAL finally changed the "rule" for 5th and 6th grade. The A division will give a team 8 or 9 games against other top town teams.

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
the PAL "rule" about even teams is making the league obsolete. There is a reason all these for profit clubs are successful fielding 2nd and 3rd grade teams. its become a playdate

PAL finally changed the "rule" for 5th and 6th grade. The A division will give a team 8 or 9 games against other top town teams.

That being said, if your kid plays on a club team and is better than average, playing in a town that fields 3-4 even teams is extremely counter productive. These are the same towns that field middle school teams with 30-40 kids which will be the next team kids will stop playing on.

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
the PAL "rule" about even teams is making the league obsolete. There is a reason all these for profit clubs are successful fielding 2nd and 3rd grade teams. its become a playdate

PAL finally changed the "rule" for 5th and 6th grade. The A division will give a team 8 or 9 games against other top town teams.


When will Nassau and Suffolk play against each other. Please get together and mix some games across the 110 line. Create a and b and cross county's and that gives a great outlet for the game on LI to grow.

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
the PAL "rule" about even teams is making the league obsolete. There is a reason all these for profit clubs are successful fielding 2nd and 3rd grade teams. its become a playdate

PAL finally changed the "rule" for 5th and 6th grade. The A division will give a team 8 or 9 games against other top town teams.


Did Nassau ever look into if 3v blackballed kids.

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With kids starting at such a young age and all these travel programs and training at such a young age . They should implement it in all divisions where kids of like talent play together it is beneficial to all kids at all levels . THE PARENTS ARE THE PROBLEM . if you split teams evenly and there are 4 or 5 good lax players on each team those 4 or 5 will dominate the game . New or less skilled boys will get limited if no touchs . When you split teams based on skill at any level (2,3,4,5,6, grade) everyone is challenged . Think about that . Do not and can not figure out why at any level you would put a boy who never played before with a boy who has ben playing for a couple of years and plays 9-10 months out of the year . Sounds foolish. Can someone give me reason why they still do this ? Think about practice they tell you coach to the middle well with even split teams the top and the bottom are so far apart . It make it extremely difficult on the coach as well . THE PROBLEM IS PARENTS NOT KIDS .

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Top teams at 2nd and 3rd Grade you got to be kidding me.
Anything to help parents live there own failures through their
kids

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Top teams at 2nd and 3rd Grade you got to be kidding me.
Anything to help parents live there own failures through their
kids


Enough with the parents trying to live through their kids, pleases, stop using this as a cop out.

That being said, if your child wants to learn any sport know what is the best method for your child to learn a sport. and dont forget you are the parent and get out there and play with them.

If you have been around the youth sports arena you will see in this day and age there is a big division of talent starting as low as 2nd 3rd grade level.

More times than not, it isnt fair to the child, coaches, and yes parents (those who spend their time and money) if you do not split players by talent. Split them so they can learn and grow. Just as long as they are challenged and fairly measured each year with fair and open communication.

But if you are new to this it could be disheartening, just continually being honest with yourself, know where your child's abilities are and help them grow within the sport and dont put the sole responsibility on the shoulders of a coach/organization.

If you do that, you will not put your child our yourself into a "situation" and will maintain a healthy relationship within the sport for your child and yourself. A relationship which can foster many benefits beyond the sporting fields.


If you are new many towns and organizations have clinics and camps, I'd recomend them as your first experience into LI YOUTH LAX.

If you are not new, to this, please stop saying people are living through their kids.

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Very well put

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Top teams at 2nd and 3rd Grade you got to be kidding me.
Anything to help parents live there own failures through their
kids


Enough with the parents trying to live through their kids, pleases, stop using this as a cop out.

That being said, if your child wants to learn any sport know what is the best method for your child to learn a sport. and dont forget you are the parent and get out there and play with them.

If you have been around the youth sports arena you will see in this day and age there is a big division of talent starting as low as 2nd 3rd grade level.

More times than not, it isnt fair to the child, coaches, and yes parents (those who spend their time and money) if you do not split players by talent. Split them so they can learn and grow. Just as long as they are challenged and fairly measured each year with fair and open communication.

But if you are new to this it could be disheartening, just continually being honest with yourself, know where your child's abilities are and help them grow within the sport and dont put the sole responsibility on the shoulders of a coach/organization.

If you do that, you will not put your child our yourself into a "situation" and will maintain a healthy relationship within the sport for your child and yourself. A relationship which can foster many benefits beyond the sporting fields.


If you are new many towns and organizations have clinics and camps, I'd recomend them as your first experience into LI YOUTH LAX.

If you are not new, to this, please stop saying people are living through their kids.



Get over yourself , there are so many kids who haven't even picked up a lacrosse stick yet who will be better than your kid in 2-3 years.

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I have been hearing this for years...everyone says it, there are new kids that havent even picked up a stick that will be better than everyone in 10th grade.

the truth is, those special kids are far and few between. other than timing for growth spurts, I havent seen a new kid playing in competitive lax since mine was in 7th grade. Now in 10th and there are no new additions. the truth is that the kids that were fast and good athletes when they were in third grade are the same ones that look good now...



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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Top teams at 2nd and 3rd Grade you got to be kidding me.
Anything to help parents live there own failures through their
kids


Enough with the parents trying to live through their kids, pleases, stop using this as a cop out.

That being said, if your child wants to learn any sport know what is the best method for your child to learn a sport. and dont forget you are the parent and get out there and play with them.

If you have been around the youth sports arena you will see in this day and age there is a big division of talent starting as low as 2nd 3rd grade level.

More times than not, it isnt fair to the child, coaches, and yes parents (those who spend their time and money) if you do not split players by talent. Split them so they can learn and grow. Just as long as they are challenged and fairly measured each year with fair and open communication.

But if you are new to this it could be disheartening, just continually being honest with yourself, know where your child's abilities are and help them grow within the sport and dont put the sole responsibility on the shoulders of a coach/organization.

If you do that, you will not put your child our yourself into a "situation" and will maintain a healthy relationship within the sport for your child and yourself. A relationship which can foster many benefits beyond the sporting fields.


If you are new many towns and organizations have clinics and camps, I'd recomend them as your first experience into LI YOUTH LAX.

If you are not new, to this, please stop saying people are living through their kids.



Get over yourself , there are so many kids who haven't even picked up a lacrosse stick yet who will be better than your kid in 2-3 years.




I think we got away from the original topic which was whether or not kids should be grouped by ability in PAL.

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Yes I believe in my experience they should be grouped by ability at all ages . This way not so experienced l"Little Johnny" can touch the ball and the experienced " little Johnny " has someone to pass to and can learn more then just get the ball and go to the cage . I even believe US lacrosse states U9: All players must be 8 years old or younger on the August 31st preceding competition. It is recommended that when multiple teams exist within a program, teams should consider physical size, skill, and maturity. Do they know what they are talking about ? I think they are on to something HELLO PAL

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The whole thing just some food for thought
League and Association Play. Leagues and associations should organize competition by age, and consider physical, cognitive, and emotional maturity when grouping players. For leagues or associations in which some local programs choose to organize their teams by grade, those teams should play in the age division determined by the oldest player on their roster.

Teams organized by single birth year or single grade are suggested, but if a league needs to group two years/grades together, it should strive to limit the maximum age difference between players in a youth game to no more than twenty-four (24) months.

Players who are participating in any high school level program such as a high school freshman, JV-B, junior varsity, varsity or club team should not be eligible for U15 competition in the same season. This means that a player who is age eligible for U15 but plays on a high school level team should not concurrently play on a youth league U15 team. At other times of the year this player may be U15 eligible, for example, for summer ball or fall ball play, depending on the guidelines of the sponsoring league or organization.

The following age groupings are determined as of the August 31st preceding competition:

NOTE: Age group references used in this section are in common usage but should not be understood literally. The U15 (read: "Under 15") grouping means that, if a player is 14 years old on the cutoff date, he/she may participate in U15 competition as a 15-year old.

U15:
All players must be 14 years old or younger on the August 31st preceding competition. It is recommended that when multiple teams exist within a program, the program should consider physical size, skill, and maturity when organizing teams.

U13:
All players must be 12 years old or younger on the August 31st preceding competition. It is recommended that when multiple teams exist within a program, the program should consider physical size, skill, and maturity when organizing teams.

U11:
All players must be 10 years old or younger on the August 31st preceding competition. It is recommended that when multiple teams exist within a program, the program should consider physical size, skill, and maturity when organizing teams.

U9:
All players must be 8 years old or younger on the August 31st preceding competition. It is recommended that when multiple teams exist within a program, teams should consider physical size, skill, and maturity.

NOTE: Age group references used in this section are in common usage but should not be understood literally. The U15 (read: "Under 15") grouping means that, if a player is 14 years old on the cutoff date, he may participate in U15 competition as a 15-year old.

Special Consideration
Although it is not recommended that any athlete play below his age group, US Lacrosse recognizes the need for special consideration due to the physical and/or cognitive development of an athlete. It would be up to the league to establish a waiver process through which it can review such cases. Ultimately it is up to the league and athlete’s parents to come to an agreement.

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Top teams at 2nd and 3rd Grade you got to be kidding me.
Anything to help parents live there own failures through their
kids


Enough with the parents trying to live through their kids, pleases, stop using this as a cop out.

That being said, if your child wants to learn any sport know what is the best method for your child to learn a sport. and dont forget you are the parent and get out there and play with them.

If you have been around the youth sports arena you will see in this day and age there is a big division of talent starting as low as 2nd 3rd grade level.

More times than not, it isnt fair to the child, coaches, and yes parents (those who spend their time and money) if you do not split players by talent. Split them so they can learn and grow. Just as long as they are challenged and fairly measured each year with fair and open communication.

But if you are new to this it could be disheartening, just continually being honest with yourself, know where your child's abilities are and help them grow within the sport and dont put the sole responsibility on the shoulders of a coach/organization.

If you do that, you will not put your child our yourself into a "situation" and will maintain a healthy relationship within the sport for your child and yourself. A relationship which can foster many benefits beyond the sporting fields.


If you are new many towns and organizations have clinics and camps, I'd recomend them as your first experience into LI YOUTH LAX.

If you are not new, to this, please stop saying people are living through their kids.



Get over yourself , there are so many kids who haven't even picked up a lacrosse stick yet who will be better than your kid in 2-3 years.


Yes, there are a few kids who havent picked up a stick yet that may be better than my children in 2-3 years (and yours), but the reality is those 2-3 years that they are learning how to play should be with players of their own ability.

maybe you missed the part about being fairly measured each year (so they are given the oppurtunity to be on a better team). get over myself? Do you have two childen that fit both models (competitive and developing).

As i believe that iron forges iron, i also believe a child needs to be on a developing team (if appropriate) so he can develop, without being over looked by those who have played longer who do not give him a chance. let him play his ability so he can show what he can do and grow.

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Be advised, rumor has it the State will be auditing several town programs this year, seems some funny stuff has been going on. SOme guys play there books fast and loose, not a good idea when operating in non profit status.

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What does that mean. PAL is only a league that teams play in. If all the kids are from the town they play on ,then what's the difference what they pay or anything else ?

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
[quote=Anonymous]Top teams at 2nd and 3rd Grade you got to be kidding me.
Anything to help parents live there own failures through their
kids


Enough with the parents trying to live through their kids, pleases, stop using this as a cop out.

That being said, if your child wants to learn any sport know what is the best method for your child to learn a sport. and dont forget you are the parent and get out there and play with them.

If you have been around the youth sports arena you will see in this day and age there is a big division of talent starting as low as 2nd 3rd grade level.

More times than not, it isnt fair to the child, coaches, and yes parents (those who spend their time and money) if you do not split players by talent. Split them so they can learn and grow. Just as long as they are challenged and fairly measured each year with fair and open communication.

But if you are new to this it could be disheartening, just continually being honest with yourself, know where your child's abilities are and help them grow within the sport and dont put the sole responsibility on the shoulders of a coach/organization.

If you do that, you will not put your child our yourself into a "situation" and will maintain a healthy relationship within the sport for your child and yourself. A relationship which can foster many benefits beyond the sporting fields.


If you are new many towns and organizations have clinics and camps, I'd recomend them as your first experience into LI YOUTH LAX.

If you are not new, to this, please stop saying people are living through their kids.



Get over yourself , there are so many kids who haven't even picked up a lacrosse stick yet who will be better than your kid in 2-3 years.

Your living in the past. There are a couple of kids that will pick up a stick and become good lax players. But with todays training kids today are picking up skills and developing at a much more rapid pace and it gives them an advantage over the kids who start playing later on.

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
What does that mean. PAL is only a league that teams play in. If all the kids are from the town they play on ,then what's the difference what they pay or anything else ?



this isnt about kids, ts about what those town organizations did with the money, are certain people using town funds to pay for special teams they put together and took out of State ? DId certain kids get items paid for by town funds ?

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What if the Town Program is not filed as a "Non-Profit 501 c 3" ?

What rules must they follow with regard to the funds they collect?

Who is responsible for auditing their books?

Is it acceptable for a Town Program that does not have 501 c 3 status to promote the organization as a "non-profit" to the community?

Many Town Programs have been collecting money from parents for years, what if there are no "Books"?

What would trigger the State to Audit a program?

If the program is not a "non-profit" what are they?

is there a difference between "not for profit" and "non-profit"

If the town program has paid coaches are they reporting the payroll?

If the High School Coaches are involved in running teams and getting paid can the organization still be considered a "non-profit"?

What if a paid coach gets hurt on the job?

Do these programs have Workers Compensation insurance?

If the program is a 501c3 are the payments made to the program tax deductible?

What type of penalties would there be for not keeping accurate books?

The list goes on and on.

To all of you who are out there with good intentions, I hope there is no truth to this rumor. I think most of these programs are run by volunteers who are trying to do the right thing.

To the few rotten apples, if you did wrong you must deal with the consequences.









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Yikes, if you suspect a town of doing this you better have concrete evidence.

Paid coaches in pal. Wha? But if they did non for profit can pay "employees"/coaches.

But it would be silly for a non or for profit town organization not to have a CPA or lawyer who helps them. Usually a town parent volunteering their time.

Originally Posted by Anonymous
What if the Town Program is not filed as a "Non-Profit 501 c 3" ?

What rules must they follow with regard to the funds they collect?

Who is responsible for auditing their books?

Is it acceptable for a Town Program that does not have 501 c 3 status to promote the organization as a "non-profit" to the community?

Many Town Programs have been collecting money from parents for years, what if there are no "Books"?

What would trigger the State to Audit a program?

If the program is not a "non-profit" what are they?

is there a difference between "not for profit" and "non-profit"

If the town program has paid coaches are they reporting the payroll?

If the High School Coaches are involved in running teams and getting paid can the organization still be considered a "non-profit"?

What if a paid coach gets hurt on the job?

Do these programs have Workers Compensation insurance?

If the program is a 501c3 are the payments made to the program tax deductible?

What type of penalties would there be for not keeping accurate books?

The list goes on and on.

To all of you who are out there with good intentions, I hope there is no truth to this rumor. I think most of these programs are run by volunteers who are trying to do the right thing.

To the few rotten apples, if you did wrong you must deal with the consequences.









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What does it matter if people pay more or i should say extra money for extra tournaments. It's not uncommon for town team that play in PAL to enter spring tournaments. PAL I think is a well organized league where the games are played the correct way in regards to 4 qts,time outs and so on. As opposed to the 20 min running times no TOs like they play in the tournaments . I don't think a organization can get very far with the $125 registration . Still don't see your point.

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
What does it matter if people pay more or i should say extra money for extra tournaments. It's not uncommon for town team that play in PAL to enter spring tournaments. PAL I think is a well organized league where the games are played the correct way in regards to 4 qts,time outs and so on. As opposed to the 20 min running times no TOs like they play in the tournaments . I don't think a organization can get very far with the $125 registration . Still don't see your point.
I

If your on the up and up there would be no issue. If the club pays for two tornemants out of state but only fort the teams their kid is on while most of the teams got nada, theres an issue. If the boards kids got indoor training and the rest didn't,t heres an issue, If money is flat out gone, if the Directors has a PAL meeting in AC etc etc

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Originally Posted by Anonymous

Yikes, if you suspect a town of doing this you better have concrete evidence.

Paid coaches in pal. Wha? But if they did non for profit can pay "employees"/coaches.

But it would be silly for a non or for profit town organization not to have a CPA or lawyer who helps them. Usually a town parent volunteering their time.

Originally Posted by Anonymous
What if the Town Program is not filed as a "Non-Profit 501 c 3" ?

What rules must they follow with regard to the funds they collect?

Who is responsible for auditing their books?

Is it acceptable for a Town Program that does not have 501 c 3 status to promote the organization as a "non-profit" to the community?

Many Town Programs have been collecting money from parents for years, what if there are no "Books"?

What would trigger the State to Audit a program?

If the program is not a "non-profit" what are they?

is there a difference between "not for profit" and "non-profit"

If the town program has paid coaches are they reporting the payroll?

If the High School Coaches are involved in running teams and getting paid can the organization still be considered a "non-profit"?

What if a paid coach gets hurt on the job?

Do these programs have Workers Compensation insurance?

If the program is a 501c3 are the payments made to the program tax deductible?

What type of penalties would there be for not keeping accurate books?

The list goes on and on.

To all of you who are out there with good intentions, I hope there is no truth to this rumor. I think most of these programs are run by volunteers who are trying to do the right thing.

To the few rotten apples, if you did wrong you must deal with the consequences.

Concrete evidence? Suspect a town of doing this?

The questions in the quote were asked in response to an earlier post indicating that The State of New [lacrosse] could possibly audit / investigate some local Youth Lacrosse Organizations. My point was that there are many questions that could be asked. I think that even people that have good intentions could possibly be in violation of the law.

They were questions, not accusations.











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Concrete evidence? Suspect a town of doing this?

The questions in the quote were asked in response to an earlier post indicating that The State of New [lacrosse] could possibly audit / investigate some local Youth Lacrosse Organizations. My point was that there are many questions that could be asked. I think that even people that have good intentions could possibly be in violation of the law.

They were questions, not accusations.

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"Be advised" "rumor is"... Sounds like you must be really tuned in. Looking forward to seeing you at the next PAL meeting at the fieldhouse.

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