If you have been through the process of college recruiting please share your insight.

http://m.bleacherreport.com/article...dium=referral&utm_campaign=editorial

Good info for parents and players.

http://www.uslacrosse.org/multimedia-center/blog/postid/864/dealing-with-recruiting-realities.aspx

I have always thought that lacrosse referees are the most sensitive guys in sports. Not growing up playing lacrosse, I've always watched how reactive they are when anything they do is questioned. Even the slightest criticism from coach or fan and i've seen many lose their mind. Do not see that in other sports. Seems like football and basketball refs have a higher tolerance. Soccer officials have the most. Which leads me to my real point. It also seems that in lacrosse recruiting there is ALWAYS mentioned about the parents....always. I don't see that in other sports? Why is that. Do you think that when Nick Saban recruits a 5 star running back from Alabama that his parents are a huge part of the package? I doubt. Obviously you want good parents but who cares? How much of a problem can a parent be at the Divison 1 level or any level? Not getting it? Someone jump in here and give your best.

I would say most refs today have played lacrosse at least the HS level if not the College level.

Parents are involved because coaches are recruiting 13 year olds!!!! That is the problem. If you leave it up tp a 13 or 14 year old to negotiate his future (if your kid is a blue chip) you will be disappointed!!

Great topic! Clicked on link and it says page doesn't exist, but I hope we get some postings here from those who have had experience.

Thanks. See if this works.

http://m.bleacherreport.com/article...dium=referral&utm_campaign=editorial

It worked thank you, that was a great story. Kind of scary to think a coach can change his or her mind but in a way makes me feel better that my parents won't let me give a verbal unitil 11th grade.

Just wanting for a true commit to de commit and select another school. I have my eye on a few 2017/2018's

We have been through the process and the travel club scene coupled with very lose if any guidelines on early verbals is out of hand. As stated on another thread parents boast that their kid makes Blue or top team even if they don't play, then they boast on the summer sideline that their 7th or 8th grader got called up to varsity, then all the talk last summer was about the kids that committed before entering 9th grade! The only way a 14 year old is picking a college that FITS at 14 is if their parents said it was a fit for them. My kid wasn't a top 25 d1 lacrosse kid, so we waited and picked a school that was strong academically and that they wanted to be at even if the lax didn't work out. The hardest part was keeping my kid from picking a school just because a coach "had money" because every kid and most travel parents eyes light up

Another good read.

http://www.uslacrosse.org/multimedia-center/blog/postid/864/dealing-with-recruiting-realities.aspx

Hop, if you ever called homewood home, met your wife at school and had a 14 yo top player. That would be a good fit!

Ok....

Not really sure I understand your comment. If some kid commits at 14 and gets offered $ to play lax, what is so bad? THe schools that are in the early commit game are among our top educational institutions. A kid that gets an early nod is at a significant advantage because the $ for lax is very limited.

Good fit? Come on, more than half the kids picking schools in their senior year don't know what will be a good fit...nor do they know what they want to study. That is what most people figure out in the first two years of school.

If it was a bad fit, transfer. If the coach pulled your offer-as indicated in the bleacher report article, find another home. If the coach quits before you get to school, find another home...

These kids that commit early have full flexibility, if something better comes along, they can take it. Sorry to the people that feel differently, but let's all be honest, there is no downside to committing early as just as the coach can back out, the kid can back out. I would love to know the percentage of coaches that have pulled verbal offers. Other than for academic reasons, i bet the percentage is extremely low.

Why does anyone care? Why not just tell the kid congratulations, I hope it all works out for you really well...If your kid is getting offers but you think it is just too soon and you can afford the full $45-60k per year, wait.

I have seen many examples of early verbals at my son's club, his prep school, his prep league and amongst rival clubs and in the prep or public HS leagues around here. My son also got Twitter friendly with out of area kids from other elite clubs. He is a 2017 and was "not committed" until recently and now is what we maybe could call a "non-public verbal" to a school that is no fan of early announcements of these things. Fine with our family and our club owner has been pleasantly cool about it, but I am always both amazed and dismayed how many times other parental inquiring minds who want to know ask what is wrong with our son because he seems to be a decent player but is not committed. What is wrong? He gets it from his friends and takes it well considering he is 15. But this wears and wears on the kids who are checking the Twitter constantly to measure up who is getting committed versus who isn't. Let's be blunt here: if your 2017 or 2018 son needs to be committed in a month or your family is headed into therapy for clinical depression, here is my recruiting guide:
1. Get your club owner to dial up some 8th tier academic school that has "D1 lacrosse" status bar and beg the coach for a spot. If the kid is an ok player Furman, Bellarmine, Mt. St. Marys, UMBC and the like will take him, especially if you don't get all pedantic about scholarship money. Costs them nothing for something and a lof of college coaches are going in for that now. Rosters closing in on 60...half the kids can't play, no problem. It isn't like the school won't be getting 30 full tuition paying students. Nobody is the victim.
2. Go upmarket and beg beg beg beg a top 20 D1 program via the club and prep school coaches who can shove your kid down a coach's throat as a nothing attached verbal. No money, just a spot please. A shocking number of top 20 program coaches will humor this. See #1. And Ty Xanders is confused why JHU is carrying 6 goalies?!? Seems more and more like he doesn't have a clue about recruiting and it is supposedly his profession.
3. Once your kid is verballed, by all means that opens the sieve for you -- the parent -- to not shop it, but also entertain what other offers may come 1-3 years later. If the kid is a great student and was committed to Furman but Duke calls, well, duhhhh who is throwing a rock at your kid or you for playing the game? I honestly think that 8th or 9th or even 10th grade verbals are considered at least in part "placeholders" to lock in a status, be viewed more favorably by parent or kid peers (and is very very important to both), get your kid ranked by some recruiting guide guy and to honey pot more bees to offer your kid later.
4. The draconian route, ignore it. Implore your kid to enjoy playing club and HS and do your best to teach your son that if he really really wants to play D1 lacrosse he can walk right on at the D1 schools that a cat who isn't dead yet could be admitted to and no coach won't love a capable practice player or will the bursars office at that university. If by now you have not figured out the economics of lacrosse, let me explain it very simply: if you need financial help to put your kid through college you are better off "committing to the financial aid process" than taking a lacrosse partial, and if your kid is a very good student to boot "committing to the academic merit scholarship process" is a walk off home run versus a come with $1,500-$20,000 scholarship being amortized out by a lacrosse coach.
5. No wait, this is the part where anonymous dads post that is just not true, their kid is getting a full ride!!!!!!!!! When one of you guys meets another lacrosse parent of a committed 2017 or 2018 who IS NOT getting a full ride, be sure and let us know. There is not such a thing I know of.

As a practical matter, as parents we'd be better parents if we take the game back from the salesmen in the lacrosse trade. 12-18 year old kids deserve enjoyment and their own fulfillment out of sports and it is silly to take it away from them for a Twitter banner that may read Johnny Lax, XYZ HS 2018, Johns Hopkins 2022. When I was a freshman in high school I don't think I ever thought of what the calendar year of my college graduation would be and would have needed to look it up. I wasn't the brightest kid, but I was normal to not think about that. What 2018 lacrosse kid doesn't know without thinking or counting he is a 2022 college year?

Tend to agree with many of your points, however, you also say a few things that are not applicable to most. First, most of the people reading this are not going to get any $ for need based financial aid. Great for you if you can, but not in the cards for the majority.

Second, merit based $, again, about half the schools don't offer merit based money. The schools that do and that also offer lax money are far and few between. SO the dream is for your kid to get a school that is a great academic institution with a 25% lax ride and a 25% merit based (grades) ride.

Mine also has verballed and all the schools we talked to were the ones where we could make the money work. So, unlike everyone else that is so concerned with whether mine really fits into the school, I am more and was more concerned with how much debt he would graduate having to repay. Our choice was simple (yes, since I am paying it was our choice, not only his), can we get better than a SUNY school at a better price... We were fortunate enough to do so.

Like you, we have heard of the mythical full ride for lax, perhaps it exists, but wasn't offered to mine at any of the four schools we considered.

great post!!!!!!!!!

The fact that most parents of committed lax players is that they receive no money! Most early commits get to commit because it costs the coach nothing! The parents are more than willing to pay for everything to tell everyone that there son has committed to a D1 school and that he received a full ride.

It's pretty sad and pathetic but it's the truth.

I believe this to be the reality. I hear too many "full ride" stories to believe, and not just in lacrosse. There's not that much money out there. <cue the "my kid got a full ride posters>

As for the early commits transferring, that will be something to watch and track. I don't think 9th and 10th graders can make a sound choice, but I don't think 11th and 12th graders are reliable either. They're still kids. What do they know about life and careers and what the whole college experience will be like? It's a crap shoot. One of my kids had a lifelong career in mind, choose her college accordingly -- and then choose a new career at the end of sophomore year! Doh! You just don't know, they just don't know, you play it as it comes.

As for transferring, be aware that there are NCAA restrictions. I'm not fully conversant on these but you may have to sit out a year, you may need your coach's consent, you may be penalized by your coach if you discuss it with him/her and don't go through with it (seen that secondhand). Transferring is, of course, a possibility, but it's not as easy as just deciding to do so.

What happens with the kids who get hurt (torn ACL, etc.) after committing? Is the commitment honored? Even if they're not the same player afterwards?

Sad thing is I believe we will need to wait to see. A kid gets hurt senior year after his NLI I believe there is insurance policies that the NCAA schools can make claims to so that a scholarship dollar can be used again without hurting the kid who received the scholarship. Before NLI, it is a coach's discretion. One certain high profile football coach is looking like scum publicly in the news in recent days over flopping on a recruit. I think if you have a 9th grader and he hurts his knee this year, isn't the same again...early verbal or no don't be expecting anything more than a admissions spot provided he meets the academic criteria. I don't think lacrosse coaches will look like bad guys for doing it when we get to that point, but that is just a guess.

i think it is important to realize that a full ride in lax is beyond rare. I played with Dom Starsia at Brown and remain in close contact. He is now in his 23rd year as head coach of VIrginia. In that time he has given 4 one year full rides and all 4 of those cases were not because of the players skill. You have as much chance to win powerball tonight as your son does of getting a full ride to play lax (unless for army, navy or air force) Grades will help you get into a better school but watch what you wish for. It is very hard to balance academics, lax, and social life.

My kid tore his ACL his freshamn Spring and was close to committing. Just coming back now for his H.S. season. Coaches move on unless they can see you play, that is just the reality. If alreeady committed, they typically will honoe the commitment unless of academics or the kid just really can't play b/c of the injury.

I agree with most of your comments. Most of the early commits I know including mine are not getting a full ride. Numbers are generally around 20-30%.

As far as transferring, that would happen only after you actually matriculated to a school, so I don't think it is relevant to the early commit conversation at all. Presumably, the early commit offer was accepted, then a letter of intent signed knowing exactly what the numbers are, who the coach is and assuming the kid still wants to go to that school. If after he shows up and decides he doesn't like it and wants to transfer, the same rules apply whether the kid was an early commit or a late one. Not part of the thought process (nor should it be) when the 9th or 10th grader commits...

You are obviously making this up. the top schools that are engaging in the early commit process are all giving money for lax. That doesn't mean full ride, that means a partial.

Plenty of other d-1 schools do not give lax money (think patriot league) but that is also why they are not committing 9th graders. The early kids are going committing to schools that have offered money...

I have had two go through this process and would love to know what you are seeing that is different? Perhaps you are just spreading rumors and have no first had experience? Or, please share which of the early commit schools are not giving money?

Michigan, JHU, Virginia, UNC, Ohio, Penn State, Loyola...all giving money for lax.

some really great posts. I am not a fan of the early commitment. there are more and more early commitments in girls lacrosse some as early as 8th or 9th grade to d1 schools that are recruiting 12 new players each year. I have looked at some of the D1 rosters this year and the future commitments to these schools and i was surprised to see such large numbers of kids on each team. Some are at the 50 player mark. this to me means that 30 of those kids will never see the field this year. is that fair to the girls? they will practice very hard and miss many days of school just to say they played at the d1 level. the coaches are over recruiting and the parents are not really doing there homework on these schools. my daughter plays d3 lacrosse and enjoys the game. they miss very few days of school and almost all the players play. which is a nice thing to see since they all work very hard. everyone needs to remember that once lacrosse in college is over for these girls they will need to find a job which is why i feel getting a degree is more important than lacrosse and at a d3 level it is more manageable for the Student /Athlete.

Best post I have ever seen on BOTC. Sounds just like what I have been saying, my son is 2020 and I already know PLENTY of people who are chomping at the bit. Heck, plenty of 2020 kids went to Jake Reed in FL, because don't you know, if you weren't there (and paying A LOT of money to go there), your son WILL NOT get recruited. LOL, the entire thing makes me laugh! People need to relax and enjoy the experience of playing club and not get so wrapped up in who is or is not getting recruited. When the time comes (senior year) the kids will sign (or not sign) and then they will (or will not) play in college. If anyone actually thinks committing in 9th grade means anything, they are fooling themselves.

Really?
I happen to know most early commits get money. The reality is quite opposite from your thoughts. It's the minority of early commits that get no money and do so to either play for a team they love even though no money is offered or to "keep up with the Jones'. " The majority of early commits do so to secure some amount of scholarship money. Some very large and some very small and some in the middle.
While we appreciate your opinion it is inaccurate and certainly not the truth. I will leave out the sad and pathetic part.

How many of the early commits are to ivies?

I never said that the schools aren't giving scholarships. What I said is that a large amount of the commits are getting nothing so that there parents can tell everyone that they received a full ride to a D1 school. If a big program takes 15 kids in a year they are not al getting money. Half of them at least are getting nothing.

My daughter verbally committed to a d1 school in tenth grade. 70 percent athletic with the opportunity for some academic money on top of that if she keeps her grades up which she is. No bull [lacrosse]. All truth. We are feeling quite excited for her because although it's not an ivy, it has a very good academic reputation as well.
I don't necessarily agree with what has become of the recruiting proceeds but this was what happened to her. Her particular class has six verbal commits. I will let you know if something goes sour but as for now- driving up and down the coast for four years has paid off.

CONGRATULATIONS!!! If your daughter is getting 70% at a great school your have just hit the powerball and she is probably in the top 5% of all kids that will play in college. Most will take the 20% offer to play at a weak program with so so academics at a school with a price tag of $50,000 or more. The 95% of us on here could drive from here to florida every weekend but if they weren't born with it all the training in the world isn't going to change a thing

Really? good to be you I guess. While many people do not qualify for federal need based grants many private schools with large endowments offer a lot of need based grant money, do you really think every kid on every Ivy League school is paying $60,000 a year out of pocket? they are not. depending on your net worth and income many many kids will do better getting academic and grant money then they could have ever gotten in Athletic and academic money.

And just FYI - for those of us that do qualify for grant money it is not great for us.

(1) There are only a handful a top universities with huge endowments that offer financial aid / tuition discount if your family income is below $150 - 200K. If your family earns just above that, particularly in a high-cost of living area, very hard to afford. Great schools and great fit if your kid can get in and you qualify for a discount (especially if you are from a low cost of living area).

(2) How are schools allowed to package "merit" aid with athletic scholarships? I realize that a large number of colleges now charge a very high "retail" tuition that only a tiny percentage of students actually pay, using "merit scholarships" as essentially tuition discounts for kids with better grades and scores. So that kind of packaging is not necessarily unfair (or else the athletic scholarship would essentially be worthless), but I would think it would be hard to police schools from essentially using large merit packages as a way around the restriction on athletic scholarships.

Guess what? It's not great for us paying half our income to taxes. Then paying full tuition, ya know, "cause we're rich". BTW we're not even close to RICH. However, if you make over a certain amount of money the school labels you as rich. Which means we're allowed to pay full boat, so folks like you can get a huge discount. Maybe if everyone paid the same price it wouldn't cost $60k a year, would it now?

I guess we can agree and also disagree. I reread your post and you said most early commits receive no money. That is just not true. Most of the early kids receive decent offers, so I disagree. As we move further away from early commits into 11th grade kids verbally committing before signing of the letter of intent, I agree, most of those kids aren't getting much if any money. But it makes sense doesn't it? The schools that have money to give (most schools are not fully funded meaning they have less that 12.5 athletic lax scholarships per year or none at all) are recruiting later in the cycle. It is basic economics, the kids all first look for athletic dollars, so why would Holy cross waste their time trying to recruit a kid that is likely to get $ from somewhere else...

So those schools without money are left to see what kids are left that didn't get money end of 10th beginning of 11th grade.

Also, not trying to offend anyone that goes to any of those schools, they are for the most part great academic institutions anyone should be proud to attend. Also, we all know there will be some late bloomers that get lax money in his senior year because some coach with money absolutely needs that kid for a specific role...but the odds are the earlier the commitment, the better the chances of real $ for lax.

However, the concept of parents lying I happen to agree with. Many parents, even those early commits, get 10-50% lax money, and if they are lucky, some merit money and if they are below a certain income threshold, need based aid. So they say my kid got a full ride. It is not important to them to distinguish between athletic dollars, merit/grade dollars and need based dollars.

I don't choose to argue with them publicly, but the truth is most d-1 lax kids are not getting full rides for lax. The only reason it is important in my mind to this board is so that others, new to the recruiting world, can gauge what to expect and have some education when talking to the coaches.

Merit dollars are the best because they last all four years if the GPA stays above some minimum--usually around a 3.0. Need based are also great, but as has been discussed previously, most people are not getting those dollars with family incomes over $150k. Athletic dollars are year to year, even if the coach is telling you otherwise. He can pull from A and give to B--each is a one year grant...

Been through this twice and believe me or not, I understand all aspects because we have done our homework and I have no reason to lie about it on an anonymous website...

Best of luck to all your kids.

Look, I wish you all the luck in the world and hope that it all works out for you. Ivy is a lot more difficult than standard and they do have a great system for determining need. But, it is a lot closer to the web based financial aid calculators--publicly available--than you think. Yes, I think people are paying alot for those schools and then some making very little income are going for close to free...If you went to private school in MD--or anywhere else for that matter--you are not getting help from Ivy. Most people in Garden city, manhasett, setauket...are also not getting any help. Good luck to you

I am sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but 10 minutes of research online and you can see what your kid should expect to receive in financial help at any school.

A college can package need based financial aid with merit based aid or athletic money with merit money, they only thing that they cannot do is package need based with athletic money - often times family's will find that they can get more need based money then athletic money - the reason for this is an athlete should not be punished by not being allowed to get merit money.

Most from LI wont get a sniff of need aid money.

They will qualify for athletic and academic which can be bundled. Example $44,000 Get .25 for athletics which is $11,000 and then a $15,000 for a 1200 SAT and a 95 GPA Nets at $18,000 which is just slightly cheaper than going to Stony Brook or Suny Bing.

The ones who lose are the pure athletic kids that barely hit the academic admission minimums and then just get the .25 with no athletic money.

What no one ever talks about is that they have spent $30,000 or more on club lacrosse to get a $15,000 athletic scholarship

Yes, that part is funny...But for my fam, we enjoyed every minute and will be in withdrawal...the whole lax scene will need to be replaced by buying a boat...

Question, when you say merit, lets take UNC and Duke. To get in to either you need to be in the top of your class( as out of state at UNC) with a very high SAT. Kid in my school just who is ranked 7th with a combined SAT 1450 got denied UNC wait listed Duke. To get a merit based money at either of those schools you would need to be something like 1 in your class and 1550 sat or are the standards lower for athletes?

My sense is, and I could be wrong, that the athletic department works with the financial aid departments to find money for athletes for whom they want to find money. I think the rules on merit may be a little bendy, or the financial aid office can offer an alternative like an out-of-state tuition waiver (not applicable to Duke but to UNC). I'm curious to see what the more informed have to say about this topic.

There once was a time where I thought that these college coaches were getting the early commitments from what would be considered blue chip girls. And you see plenty of those, but I have also seen a few very young commitments recently that completely defy that logic. Not sure what to think anymore.

This is where it gets tricky, the minimums to get athletes in is way lower at many institutions. Those kids just get some athletic money and then usually struggle in the classroom. Those are the kids that [lacrosse] off the non athletes. To your point a straight 1450 gets denied but a kid who can barely write their name and play ball gets in! Anyone follow the UNC scandal? Ever hear a Duke basketball player give an interview? Remember when Urban Meyer turned down Notre Dame because that was a school that wouldn't bend and "he couldn't get the kids he needed in". The great athletes are rewarded at schools they would never get a sniff at academically

Patrick Ewing G'town

LI is an amazing place, no cops, firemen, garbage collectors, teachers or really any blue collar workers or at least none of these types of people have kids playing lacrosse that might qualify for a sniff of need money. and just to be clear, if you paid $30,000 for travel lacrosse and get a $15,000 scholarship that is $60,000 over 4 years and double your investment.

Based on the comments above, one wonders where the fine lines are with admissions officers at the strong academic colleges. If you are in the admissions office at a Duke or a UNC, of course there is an implicit bargain to take some men's and women's lacrosse players on a coaches sponsorship. But 40 times, 50 times, 60 times? If would be one thing if all lacrosse or other sport commits were straight A and 1450 SAT, but that is not the case. And then there are the straight A and 1450 SAT applicants that don't get admitted. I wonder if the internal debates are beginning. Do lacrosse coaches admit kids when they are 14, 15 or do we when they are seniors?

Best Post Ever on BOTC!!!!
Let the kids be kids!
Early recruiting is really over done!
Kids STILL needs SAT Grades to get in! If they don't get it,those late bloomers with the SAT scores will walk right into their spots..a verbal means nothing until signing day,scores and transcripts are accepted thru admissions.
Get off twitter,cause its ruining some kids
For all the qualified Juniors,who are great student/athletes,your time is fast approaching to committ, the good ole fashioned way....
Good Luck to all!

You have to be realistic from the start..If you committ to a school that is academically over your son or daughters academic ability,you are asking for trouble.I dont know what kind of enjoyment will come from watching your child have an awful academic experience,eventually it will take them off the field and bring them nothing but misery,all because the wanted to see their name on twitter.

In our circle of friends the OPPOSITE is true, most have traded DOWN and gone to academic schools that are beneath them based on a coach showing some love and money. Everyone wanted to verbal early and everyone needed to say they got an athletic scholarship. It makes you scratch your head.

This was an interesting thread: "If you have been through the process of college recruiting please share your insight." But so far it seems people are just hypothesizing. What would be interesting is if people shared who they were recruited by, when the recruiting started, when committed and how much / what kind of money was received. Actual info, not just guesses or "I heard."

That's taking the anonymity out of anonymous.

Our son was offered by two ACC schools and decided to wait on it. Both schools said they were offering an athletic scholarship. Both gave us a % range that was not specific and represented it would not get hardened up until our son was a rising senior. It would be at that point the coaches know what their specific $$$ are after all the juggling, transfers in or out, kids dropping out of the program for any reason, etc. The guided ranges we got from both schools were fairly paltry, 15%-20%, and in one instance we are in-state so the school would not break the bank for us to have our son attend. We decided to wait as a family and our son is happy enough waiting for the right thing. Passing on or jumping on those figures isn't a game changer for us. All our personal experience as a given, there certainly could be kids who were offered much more material % than our son, and I can see how that may be compelling to jump on if it is both a great academic fit with a top lacrosse program. The way we left it with the two ACC schools was they indeed went on to fill up a class of commits, but there was a mutual "let's revisit this later if a good fit" good terms to come back later. We know as a family that going back for a spot later would likely mean low or no money, and that is fine.

Northeast Conference D1 program which did not have its full allotment of scholarship spots told us everyone on team gets something. Range started at 10% and went up from there with no one getting more than 50% or so they said. At other schools we were told lots of kids on roster were getting nothing so our 20% was a big offer. That school was giving more than 50% to the horses

Great Post. Thank You.

I have a few questions.
-Was the communication between the coaching staffs and you difficult?
-How did you make contact when you had a question(s)?
-Was your club or HS coach the "go between"?

my daughter went through the process just 3 years ago. it was an eye opening experience. first she was not a top d1 recruit but a mid level one. she was asked by a mid level d1 college to come visit and discuss the possibility of playing at their school. the coach proceeded to tell us that most freshman get very little athletic money and most of their aid comes from academics ( we had this conversation before with other schools). she then proceeded to tell us about the amount of time that was to be spent playing/practicing. it was almost 20 hours per week and that did not include travel time for away games. i then asked what was the 4 year graduation rate of the team and it was only 40%. she told me most kids go an extra year. so the school was $60,000 per year all included. so what ever money they gave me i would be paying back to them later on. needless to say my daughter decided that she wanted to go to a d3 school with a team graduation rate of 90% in 4 years and got plenty of academic money and still plays lacrosse. the best of all worlds. ask yourself how may hours your daughter will commit to playing and can she handle a real class work load and get good grades? also a question everyone should find out is what is the TEAM graduation rate in 4 years and what percentage of kids stop playing or transfer to another school in the first 2 years due to lack of playing time or burn out of being over worked. it take a very special kid to have a balanced school/social/athletic life at most d1 schools. and i don't think a kid in 8th or 9th grade really knows how much work is ahead of them at a d1 level program when the commit. parents please be fair to your kids let them enjoy the game and have the same college experience you did. help them make the right choice and not just based on the fact that it is a d1 lacrosse program.

When is the right time to ask the coach about $$$?
Do you ask on your first visit and meet with the staff or do you wait until a commit has been offered?

Club coach was our primary go between. The HS coach offered to be of help, but son had not played for him yet. Not difficult...visited and they have a good idea what they want, and if it is a good fit with what you want you can commit to it or pass on it with a mutually pleasant understanding to stay in touch later. I did not make direct contact, the club coach was the go between to arrange it to have my son call or to have me call to follow up on anything. I got the sense quickly that Dads who just call coaches is not best way, so I took the early advice to not be that Dad type. If I or my son needed feedback, we'd rely on the club coach to clear the brush and I am glad we did.

My daughters recruiting was horrible. Coaches showed interest, she went to camps, tournaments, recruit tours, and prospect clinics. All went very well with coaches showing a lot of interest, until the either the subject of her selected major came up. or she filled out the prospect questionnaire. Because her selected field of endeavor required her to spend time off campus, and was deemed too difficult to work with, coaches dropped her with no explanation leaving us to question her ability, until the coach of the school she will attend filled us in as to why. She was given a 50% Athletic scholarship with, so far, another 25% for her S.A.T./A.C.T. scores before we even visit the bursars office. This is not a top 10 athletic or academic school, but it is one of a very few that were willing to work with her attended major, and is very well respected within that profession. Lesson of the story (at least for us) is that unless your a true blue chip athlete, not every coach will be willing to work with you, and that no matter how much they say they care for your kid and want them to succeed, they still value winning over everything els.

great post and don't forget that unless you are a top player, most teams want you in certain majors and not ones that require big commitments. Middle and bottom roster players need to register in majors the coaches approve of. The top players can do whatever they want

There are many, many parents who have no idea how to navigate the recruiting process. It's very intimidating. This thread has started great with personal experiences of folks that have gone through it. KEEP IT UP!!
Please post your questions and if you have a personal experience that may help please contribute and....pay it forward.

Look at a lot of D1 rosters, much smaller % of seniors and juniors compared to fresh/sophs. Should be a wake up call.

Anyone have any good answer to this?

Easy answer, except for the best of the best players the rigors of full time lacrosse play is very hard to balance with getting a degree. Those upper classman buried on the bench are choosing studies and internships over lacrosse. Read the D1 surveys - Athletes spend more time on sports than academics. Give the kids credit at 20, 21 years old they realize that their lacrosse careers are coming to end...

if you're a junior/senior and you're not getting PT and fresh and sophs are at your position it becomes apparent that you will likely never see the field. Less than 20 players get significant time in mean's games. If you're in the 30-55 range it's all practice no play no fun. So the choices are to suck it up and ride pine, transfer to somewhere you can play or just be a regular student.. and have more time to study and/or party.

Does anyone have any real experience with this?

Lacrosse players at my school would either get clued in they were in the plans, or they'd pledge a fraternity fall soph year. Going Greek got the UVa coaches ruffled so pledging to a house was pretty much a white flag on continuing lacrosse past second year. I'd guesstimate about 1/3rd of the lacrosse players did this. The ones who didn't stayed with it and were usually the ones playing. I noticed the lacrosse team was the one with by far the most attrition of the sports where I knew athletes.

That must be why they have 50-60 kids on the roster

Some updated facts-
Men have 65 D1 Teams with 2,936 players and an average team size of 45 with 12.6 scholarship spots available (if program is fully funded)of those receiving money, the average athletic scholarship award is $14,605 (many get nothing).

Women have 103 D1 Teams with 3,020 players and an average team size of 29 with 12 scholarship spots available (if program is fully funded)of those receiving money, the average athletic scholarship award is $15,748 (many get nothing)

About 12% of all high school varsity athletes will play in a D1, D2 or D3 college program

If your child wants to play, there is always a program for them if you don't get hung up on the scholarship.

My daughter has 4 of her friends playing in college and they didn't play club!!! From PAL straight to high school, that's it! (1 in D2, 3 in D3)

I agree with everything you said. But for girls it's much different than for guys. I personally know 3 girls on D1 lax team that never once got on the field for there HS varsity programs and they werent the best programs these girls just weren't that good. They got onto college teams through the YJ even though they weren't very good for them either. Point is you don't have to be very good as a female player to play D1, to many programs not enough talent. Complete opposite as the mens side.

Your can argue the men is a more competitive pool from top to bottom but 12% of men play in college and 12.3% of women play

Average team size of about 30 for women as compared to men's programs now bloated into the mid to high 50s explains a lot. You'd need to be very good to play women's lacrosse in college since they don't carry 20-30 more players who can just be practice players until they decide to focus on school, join a fraternity, etc. and quit.

Whoever said check out the rosters was right, huge falloff of juniors and seniors. Looks like the kids finally start to grow up and without mommy and daddy looking over their shoulders and pushing like they did in HS, the kids are choosing to do other things with their time.

We went thru it two years ago, my daughter opted to play club after speaking with the girls on the team. It was a NE D1 program, daughter heard how much time was spent just in the off season, coach picking the classes they could take, she said club was more her ideal. Got the academic $, so it worked out well for her.


Now as a sophomore, she said last year and now this year, more than 2/3 of the club roster are drops from the varsity team, the girls said it was not worth the time commitment, club keeps them playing, travel games, playoffs and championships.

For some this is enough.

One boy I know who plays the other helmet sport, says his day starts at 6 am in the gym till 8;30 am. Classes at 10-2, team meeting and practice from 2;30-8p.

This is why this site cracks me up, my bet is the VAST majority of posters are parents who DID NOT play a sport in college, but desperately want their child to play. Unless you have done it, you have no idea what goes into it. And trust me, you really have to want it yourself!!!

My daughters schools club team practices 3x per week in the evenings and travels every weekend for games and tournaments. Club LAx lumps D1-D3 team together in divisions and rankings so if you look at the pre season national club rankings you will see D3 Cortland in the top 10 with UCLA, Florida, Boston College, Loyola and Duke. D2's and D3's get to travel and play games at big D1 schools which is a cool experience for the 2's and 3's.

They are still playing at a very high level, still traveling, still competing for a division, region and national title, still making friends and socializing all without a D1 program owning them 24-7 and they are HAPPY!

And just like the top D3 and D2 schools would beat many lower D1 programs, many of these club teams would beat plenty lower varsity teams. These club teams are LOADED with kids who could have played varsity (maybe not at the school they are attending, but a varsity program somewhere)but chose not to.

I whole heartily agree about the entire club lacrosse experience but do not get carried away with club teams being able to compete with varsity teams, when Michigan was dominating on the club level people kept on saying they were good enough to compete against many lower level D1 team, when they went Varsity they won 2 games in two years. I agree that there is a lot of good club players and teams but it is still a big jump up to varsity

Don't get caught up with the labels. My kids on Blue or Black or Orange. My kid is D1, My kid is in ACC....

Bottom line is if you think a strong club team couldn't beat the 100th ranked D1 program or some D2 and D3 varsity teams your crazy. Just like if you don't think D3 Trinity or D2 Adelphi would torch many mid to lower ranked D1 varsity programs you are nuts.

Kids can still have a very rewarding college lax experience outside of playing for an all encompassing top 10 D1 program

played D1 didnt start. sophmore year went to club with 6 other roster players had the time of our lives.by grad year played club with many of my recruting class.was able to balance school, social and sports. be well aware of what you are wishing for your boys. they are the ones who have to get up and compete in the class and on the field.enjoy it goes by fast.

Does anyone know how common it is for out of state schools to waive the residency requirement to athletes? This in itself would be like a scholarship of sorts.

Uncommon. That decreased price is due to tax credit for being a resident. T is against the state legislative law to do so.

My daugther had an out of state waiver. I think the wording on it was to the effect of "to be awarded to an out of state student who brings something of value to the school." The athletic dept was able to use that to their, and our, advantage. I'm sure all states have different interpretations but that's how it was in FL.

That's good information from Powder because the difference between in state and out of state is huge.

For the unrecruited juniors is it too late?
Lots of talk about early recruiting nowadays but not too long ago it was junior year when it all happened.

Any thoughts?

To late to play? no. To late to receive any athletic money ( in most cases)? yes.

Time will determine how accurate is this statement.

laxpower list's 746 junior girls and 664 boys as committed to play in college. if you guesstimate 5-7 athletic scholarships (D-1 and D-2)per team. I'm thinking most offers are out and accepted. I will admit that there always exceptions, ie.. the kid who cant get the right SAT or ACT, injuries over $hit grades..which will opena window for tehe late commit. in 2015 the late Junior or Senior commit is the exception not the rule..

Athletic money reappears when kids decommit. Happens all the time in football and the next kid on the list gets the offer

That's not true. Athletic money, regardless of the amount offered, is offered once a player is a junior and more likely late during Jr year, from hat I have heard. Each school is of course different.

kind of double edge sword
have to get what you can when its offered
but what you think you may want or where you want to go may be completely different from sophomore and senior year

Take UConn $48k out of state $24k in state plus some academic money and its the same price as a SUNY

With the news of Sweet Briar closing how many other small schools will follow?
http://www.businessinsider.com/sweet-briar-college-closing-2015-3
Will it hurt the recruiting efforts of other small schools?

Yea now that Sweet Briar is closing it will be a domino effect in the recruiting world! I heard something about it on ESPN this morning!

$50,000 per year, 700 kids in entire school, they take kids with an 800 SAT plus it's all girls.

What part of that model is appealing to anyone?

Here are some thoughts from a billionaire. I think he knows a little something a about economic trends.

http://www.businessinsider.com/mark...rce=facebook.com&utm_campaign=buffer

who cares

Ohhh no, Duke is next to fall, then Syracuse, then no more lax

Obviously not the cement heads on your clubs summer sideline. Must be your first kid going through the process get back to us when it's your 3rd or 4th. After the 1st, grades and debt become much more important than lacrosse

Everyone should care. It's our government at work making college unaffordable for so many and putting taxpayer money on the line. No different from the housing crisis. I wonder if greedy university presidents will be to blame this time.

How does this relate to lacrosse? Just look at the time and money so many are spending to try and secure a scholarship to help defray the runaway tuition costs.

Very MSNBC! Relax and enjoy your kid playing some lacrosse.

Mark Cuban held back in 8th grade

Ahh yes, the intelligence in this forum is overwhelming. Enjoy the lax man.

It gave him a big advantage over the other NBA owners !! If he didn't reclass he might have had to buy the Knicks!

Your original post was a good one and the ones who post stupid comments are not paying attention. Let them make them posts and show their stupidity.

The reason this issue is on BOTC and affects our kids is because there are many small private colleges with varsity lacrosse teams. If this trend continues it's a scary situation for all of us. It's worth researching and talking about especially if you have kids in the recruiting years now.

Now that's funny!

one of the previous poster was right...this is armageddon for lacrosse. sweet briar gave tons of full rides.

isn't that where Conrad Birdie visited in Bye Bye Birdie?

Obviously not the cement heads on your clubs summer sideline. Must be your first kid going through the process get back to us when it's your 3rd or 4th. After the 1st, grades and debt become much more important than lacrosse

AND you can keep your $7,500 bucks for lacrosse to a $50,000 school!

you can apply for a scholarship from booster club!!!

Obviously this story is not about Sweet Briar. It's about the collapse of the small college bubble that has started to collapse. Read the article. Maybe you'll understand you moron.

Thanks for trying to educate everyone on the "youth lacrosse forum" of the economic collapse of our government, small colleges and the country! This info, plus a few more ground balls, and my son's 2026 team should go undefeated this year!

he's an angry elf!!

With lax season here the showcase and summer clinic emails should be coming. Choose wisely.

As summer approaches the recruiting activity should be on the rise.

More is not always better.

Rest is important.

My recruiting experience with my daughter and her club team were excellent. She was given a 1 on 1 meeting with the club's recruiting coordinator, guidance all along the way in the form of emails, phone calls, bus tours, reaching out to coaches for her specifically, etc. The club also had a practice this winter where 15 college coaches just came to watch, I thought that was really awesome. The director and recruiting coordinator were more helpful and kind than I could have ever hoped for, and my daughter ended up finding a school that was the perfect fit for her. Very happy with our experience! The biggest thing we learned was to be proactive and make sure to stay on top of grades - it sounds obvious, but working on the SAT/ACT tests early definitely helped her in the end. The bus tour that our club set up was also key in her recruiting process. She was able to see 15 schools in 3 days, which is unbelievable. At each school the club had something set up with the college coach - a tour, a Q&A session, watching a game or practice..it was an exciting and educational experience. I have a son who is entering his "recruiting summer" and we have not had nearly as much guidance on that end, but hopefully it will turn around once we really start practicing in June.

I think your experience was great. Ours was very hit or miss and had none of this organization. Coaches strung our kid along, were very difficult to contact. Was a miserable experience. We ended up at a very solid school and got a decent scholarship around 30 percent, and the major we wanted. But it was a painful experience. I would recommend to most people to go high end D3. The coaches are generally more experienced and the process is much more transparent because they can communicate easily with a student and not violate NCAA rules.

Lmao yup that's from bye bye birdie

Just heard a scary story for early commitments. I boy committed to W&L in his junior year. He had already strong ACTs (33, that's over 2200 SAT equivalent) and a good GPA (3.8 out of 4.0) and good lax resume (good club team and all-county and HM all-state). When he did his early action application, he was not talking to any other schools and did not prepare any other application material for other schools. December 15th(or there abouts), he and 4 other lax commitments were not admitted! He had to scramble to apply to a bunch of other schools. Fortunately, the W&L coach was a stand-up guy and called around to other coaches and found this boy a slot at another school that was prepared to accept him (still an excellent school academically). Lesson: a verbal commitment is only that is not a binding commitment. While it is true that most times, commitments of this sort do work out, boys and girls need to be prepared to scramble as this boy did.

you have an awfull lot of detail for a story you "heard". why would anyone share a private matter with someone who then posts the story here? Any chance you are trying to make W & L into the holy grail of academia?

Obviously this coach did a very poor job of vetting prospects with the administration. If this story is indeed true, no one in the future will risk committing to W&L. There has to be more to the story.

Can you coment on why he was not admitted? was it purley an academic/admissions decsion by the school?
I have a verbally committed rising senior, Im obviously concerned by this story. whats the thoughts by those whove gone through it. do you keep talking to coaches? apply to a "safety" school

How does your boy commit to a DIII school? They have no athletic scholarships. I guess you could have some help from the lacrosse coach, but division 3 gives no athletic $$ and therefore no commitments

this is obviously a fake question. you have to know that commitments are made regardless of money. the fact that you are on this site and its blogs demonstrates that you know better than to say that. nice try toolbag

D3 commit is no more than "you have a roster spot" if you attend and that's IF you get accepted!

IVY and top academic D3 do not offer anything but slots for D3, or likely letters for IVY. If the coach at the D3 did not say he is giving you a slot, but only support, well you had better have a back up plan. It is up to admissions, you are just another applicant who will play lacrosse once you get admitted.
Ivy if you do not get a likely letter, you are also in the regular admittance pool of applicants.
Keep your options open, keep talking to others.
http://www.tier1athletics.org/category/division-3-recruiting/

No chance that I am attempting to tout for W&L. I "heard" it from one of the boy's parents. For me with my son, it is a reminder that there are no guarantees until he is actually admitted. Which, I think, is an important lesson about this whole process. As far as W&L is concerned, I think it is a wonderful school for the right man or woman; FYI neither my wife nor I, nor any of our relatives attended W&L, AND my son is not considering W&L. Last thing I will say about W&L is that it does seem as though the coach is an honorable person and clearly was blind-sided by the admissions committee. Whether there is more to the story than that, I don't know.

I can say that many of these so called commits are just handshakes for the early commits. That's it. Until national Letter of Intent Days that's all it is for D1 and D2. As for D3 its all in the acceptance policy of the school. Most D3 schools don't really do anything until 11th grade.

I think you only heard part of the story. My instinct is the parents had selective listening and reading. The coach likely told them everything is subject to admissions. I know plenty of kids who have gone to W and L and the coaches were straightforward and gave them an accurate picture of admissions. Shame on the parents for allowing this to happen. Also a D 3 school does not have the same process of verbal commitments that a D1 has. One of the reasons is that a D3 can put everything in writing from Day 1. So these parents knew the score going in. My guess is the kid had sub par ACT

All D1,D2 & D3 verbal commits are subject to acceptance to admittance. Some of the bigger schools will get a couple of exemptions but most if not all D2 and D3 do not. The Ivy league, N.D. and most of the private institutions do not allow exemptions, you are subject to the admitting process just like everyone els (though being able to play will give you and edge if the coach really wants you)

Big schools absolutely get exceptions. Ever see a Duke, UNC or Miami basketball or Football press conference? If they make the national minimums the coaches walk them in. Not so at ND, IVY's and D3 although D3 does give many coaches flexibility even though there is no money.

You have no idea of what you are talking about.

Ivy coaches have plenty of wiggle room , if you think these kids that are early commits to some of the Ivies have near the same academic resume as their incoming class you are dead wrong.

I think a big reason for all of the confusion and misinformation is that the large majority of high school athletes Do Not Get Recruited. Therefore the parents do not have the facts or understand the process.

Taking a bus trip with your team to visit a number of schools is not being recruited.

Going to a camp is not being recruited.

Contacting a College Coach or having club or high school coach do so for you is not being recruited.

Asking the College Coach if you can visit with them is not being recruited.

Recruited athletes are approached by the college coach. If a college coach watches your child play and that coach likes what they see they make note of it.
If the college coach believes that your child will be able to contribute positively to their program they will reach out to you through your club or HS coach.

You will know if you are being recruited.

College coaches know what they like when they see it and they will tell you and your child directly. Some coaches will want to see grades/transcripts before they pursue a recruit in order to insure that they are not wasting anyones time.

If the college coach wants you to be a part of their program they will tell you.

At the Division I level recruited athletes do not go through the same admissions process as regular students.

Does not matter if it is

Northwestern or Notre Dame
North Carolina or Michigan
Princeton or Penn
Duke or Boston College
Maryland or Penn State
Hopkins or Georgetown
Loyola or Hofstra
Syracuse or Boston University
Stony Brook of Delaware

If your child is a top tier recruited student athlete (for that college) they do not go through the same process as the general student population. Each school has their owen way of doing things but recruited athletes are required to meet different academic standards than regular students.

The academic requirements can also differ among prospective athletes at the same school. The number one recruit could have different requirements than the number 10 recruit.

If athletic scholarship money is involved that will also differ among recruits.

Best of luck to all.

PS another reason for the confusion is the jealous haters out there can't stand it if someone else has success.

The haters will say nobody gets a lot of $$$ for lacrosse, if you go to a big time program you will sit on the bench, Ivy's do not give any $$$, Only getting recruited because daddy knows the coach, etc...

Oh yeah, my favorite, we are going D-III because we want to focus on academics.

What are the hidden Gems of DI Women's lacrosse schools. Good academics, Good Lacrosse, A great package of school, campus, college life and sports. For example I have heard good things about Elon in NC.

Seems like a highly unlikely scenario based on the kids academic record. He would have easily been admitted to ANY Ivy as a recruited lax kid with those grades and board scores. Sounds like there is much to the story that you didn't "hear".

Make sure the coach is fully "supporting" your son's application. My D3 son applied, coach told us to inform him when his app was submitted. We did. He got a call from the coach 3 days later that he was in, and had an official acceptance letter from the school 2 days later. It was that simple. Coaches support is crucial. The difference is some people think they are being recruited, when in fact the coach is telling you to apply, and if you get in on your own, you can come out for the team.

Hidden Lacrosse gems and great academic institutions with good lacrosse programs are two different things. Would you rather a great 4 years of lax at Elon or sit on the bench at Northwestern or UNC and then when your daughter is done, which school gets your daughter on the top of the resume pile? I think you know the answer. Go to the school that sets you up best for the next phase of your life unless your dream is to be a summer lacrosse coach

If UNC NW were an option I would sign up right now, but realistically that is not going to happen. There are plenty of schools that have a lot to offer that are not the traditional top 20 and academic elite.

My kids are your traditional good middle class Long Island kids. They are not going to IVY, Hopkins, VA., UNC etc.

Those that have already been through the process what schools outside the traditional powers what schools did you like?

Thank you, finally someone with no hate of jealousy. I agree, for the athletes who get recruited by those schools I think it is great.

There are too many great places to go to school to list.

Good luck with the process.

Every school is different and depends on what you are looking for. Get the list of schools offering lacrosse and cross reference it to the US News rankings. That would be a way to go about getting some targets.

One word of caution, pick the school for the school. Lacrosse coaches come and go. Also they are not necessarily the brightest bulbs on the mens side and on the womans side they are incredibly catty.

Davidson, Lehigh, Lafayette, Bucknell. There are four OUTSTANDING academic institutions that in many ways are superior to the large research-oriented universities mentioned above. At these schools your kids will be taught by---GASP!---professors and not grad assistants and the focus is on TEACHING and not graduate research (to be fair, Lehigh is a small University). As for the level of lacrosse, I am inclined to say "Who cares?" These are elite schools playing DI lacrosse and all four offer need based, merit, and athletic aid.

You are better off looking at Princeton Review than US News which is not scientifically based. Schools like Colgate, Bucknell, Villanova, Richmond, Vermont are all excellent academically and have a decent lacrosse experience. There are many others also. Go to Laxpower to see all options.

OK...I thought about this some more, and here is a great list of DI schools where TEACHING is a priority over research and where merit, need-based, and athletic aid are available...in no particular order:

Army, Navy, Lehigh, Lafayette, Bucknell, Furman, Elon, Davidson, Binghamton (Harpur College segment of Binghamton is EXCELLENT), William & Mary, and Richmond. And while not at the same level in MY opinion, maybe throw in Elon, Monmouth, Loyola, High Point, and Mt. St. Mary's which are all very good schools. I would love to put Colgate on this list, but no merit aid at Colgate.

So there is 16 schools where your kid can easily get an equal---and in most cases BETTER---education than virtually all of the large, name brand research universities and likely at a lower cost (after need, merit, and athletic aid).

And I didn't even mention DIII where there are far many more schools that fit the criteria you inquired about.

GOOD LUCK!

Good list except for Monmouth. Need less than a 1,000 SAT and it's almost $50,000 in tuition. You can do way better academically but lacrosse is on the rise there

I would definitely swap Elon with Loyola in the first sentence.

Thank you for the great responses. That is what I was looking for. I have another realistic question. With the limited amount of scholarship and merit money spread around, is it realistic to think that tuition for a player that a college wants and has the grades could be around the equivalent to SUNY tuition?

Lehigh has more undergrads than all of the other 3, with about 5000. Bucknell 3600, Lafayette 2500, Davidson 1800.

Same amount as SUNY---this would depend quite a bit on what kind of grades/activities/test scores your daughter has assembled, what your FAFSA profile is, and how highly your daughter's lacrosse skills are valued. So, while your question cannot specifically be answered, I will say this...it is VERY plausible for a strong student who is recruited for lacrosse to combine academic, athletic, and need based aid to reduce cost by over 50%. This is especially true if your daughter is a strong STEM student. Female engineers in particular are highly coveted at a number of schools, including some of the schools listed above.

What I meant about Lehigh being a "small University" is that the others are largely Liberal Arts Colleges while Lehigh is a University with a significant focus on graduate programs. So yes, while it is a "small" university, it is bigger generally larger than the other schools mentioned and does not have the exclusive (or near exclusive) focus on undergraduate that a Lafayette of Bucknell does.

BUT, many D1 schools don't want lacrosse players to have engineering, medical or nursing majors. That's a fact. They really want business, psych, communication, African studies majors...

That is true about many schools not wanting kids to have certain majors...especially demanding majors like engineering. However, that is why I crafted the list I did. Those schools do not have those types of restrictions and place the academics above the athletics. So, it's not a coincidence that I selected those schools. Lehigh, Lafayette, Bucknell, Davidson, Army and Navy have no such restrictions at all...take a look at their rosters and check the girls majors and you will see what I mean.

Heck, the academic liaison to the Women's lax team at Lafayette is the Dean of the Engineering program. And I agree with the earlier poster, some of the schools mentioned (Monmouth, High Point, Elon, Mt. St. Mary's) are not as demanding from an admissions standpoint as some of the others on the list, but not knowing the kid involved I thought it wise to have some other options listed.

Just checked and Lafayette's current roster has 3 engineering majors, 2 neuroscience majors, and a chemistry major.

Lehigh has 2 engineering majors, 2 neuroscience majors, and a math major.

These are good schools that place academics first. And again, you get taught by professors. Quite a concept...a college that place teaching and learning above all else.

As an aside...if my daughter wants to major in a particular major, especially something that is very challenging like engineering...and the coach tells her "we do not allow that here" why in God's name would I ever consider that school as an option.

Nobody is going pro in this thing so parents need to stop acting like they are. College should be an academic decision (in the context of your financial abilities). Lacrosse should be a distant second.

This is not football or basketball...there are no million dollar contracts awaiting our daughters for lacrosse. And I view that as a glass half full, not half empty. We have the luxury of making an academic decision and that is great.

Find me one Girl on the Lacrosse Team that Majors in African Studies at any of the following:

Duke, Virginia, Boston College, Princeton, Penn, Northwestern, North Carolina, Penn State, Stanford, Maryland, Hopkins, Florida, Georgetown, Syracuse, Michigan, Stony Brook, Louisville, Ohio State, Albany, Southern California, Cornell or Hofstra.

wow...what a revelation!!! you are a genius

You would be SHOCKED at how many parents and kids are just about the playing and the package offered. As crazy as it sounds we know many that have entered as "undecided' after letting all their friends know what their major of preference was. Undecided gets you on the team but it almost always adds additional semesters onto your 4 year degree. You really need to be taking the mandatory pre reqs in your 1st semester because they vary greatly if you are going the science/medical or business route

Top players can be engineering majors, lower roster players can not.

You say it as if your daughter has the option of going to Duke, Princeton, Northwestern, Penn, Stanford etc.... As if she were recruited by these schools and offered a spot. Are you saying that you would advise against one of these schools in favor of one of the "academic schools".

The vast majority of girls playing at the schools listed were probably not heavily recruited by the schools regularly ranked in the Top 20-30 for lacrosse. Many of which are highly ranked academically as well.

I absolutely directed my daughter away from more highly ranked lacrosse programs towards what I believed were better academic opportunities for her. This is not to say that there are not great schools that have highly ranked lacrosse programs. They are not necessarily mutually exclusive. However, for what worked for us academically and financially, we did not have any top 10 programs on her list though some of those schools showed interest during the recruiting process.

She also seriously considered a range of DIII schools for academic purposes and because the potential for merit aid was greater in some of those instances.

Why would that surprise anybody and why would that be considered unusual behavior? The overwhelming likelihood is that she will be completely done playing lacrosse when she is 22. Why wouldn't we make it an academic and financial decision first?

As for the various schools listed, that was a list I feel strongly about for OUR purposes, and which seemed to provide one set of answers for the earlier poster that asked the question. Others will obviously have to make their own list on their own and I am sure no two lists will be the same.

GOOD LUCK and HAVE FUN!

This has been looked at before. Look at the top 15 girls on Northwestern all are taking easier majors than the bottom 15. If you don't think the high minute, highly productive, highly recruited studs are being directed to certain majors you are fooling yourself. You need to look at the top 10 girls on each team. Top 20 D1 lax is a fulltime job and all the pols say that they spend more time on sports than academics

I was at Lehigh this past weekend for a tournamnnet, and I will add the athletic area/stadium/fields are really very nice, the down side is they are on the "otherside" of the mountain then the academic/residential part of the school. Sorry we did not consider this school for my daughter.
and its pretty close to LI only 2:30 hour drive ( without traffic, of course)

Lets be honest, a lot of parents judge success by lacrosse stats and the name on top of the paper. To have Harvard or Duke on the top of a degree gets you looked at first, but by the tine your kid hits 30 it's there work ethic and decision making that keeps them in there job, not the college they attended. If you look at the return on investment over 20 years (Google it) one of, if not the best school is a small DIII, Colorado School of Mines.

Some very good players are attending "lower" schools because of the engineering/medical dilemma, I applaud them for thinking of what is best for them. A post referenced Stony Brook as not having a African Studies major (sarcasm is wasted on some people) what they also don't have is a nursing/medicine major at a school known for medical, why is that? In this era Business, communication, sports science are the new basket weaving majors for white athletes.

If your daughter wins a NCAA championship I will be very happy for you, but as you younger parents start dealing with this recruiting pressure try to keep this question in mind. Can you name 3 players off the top of you head that played on the championship team 15 years ago? Lacrosse is a terrific sport that we all love, but a very small part of life, guide your kids to to a successful life not a championship trophy

Preaching school and major over lacrosse? Your kid definitely doesn't play for YJ's. My 8th grader is ready to verbal to a school in a state she has never been to.

It was reported today, (news radio) that students graduating from either Manhattan College or Maritime College earn more money ten years after graduation than any of the Ivy's..

Maritime is a diamond in our own backyard. Two kids exact same major one graduated SUNY Maritime, one University of Delaware.

Maritime grad, had a 90K starting salary before graduation., as did the rest of the class. Stevens Institute another diamond and job placement but higher academic stats needed than Maritime.
Delaware kid took an entire year to find first job, starting salary 45K.

It appears to me that some on this site would have us believe that the best lacrosse players have very little chance at being successful in life. It is also apparent that some believe that any major other than engineering or some medical related field is a clear indication that the student athlete is not concerned at all with academics. It is implied by some that all of the young women who compete at the highest level study basket weaving in the classroom.

As with most of the topics discussed on this site the “know it all mentality” and “what we do is the best” along with hate, jealousy and bitterness come out.

When the kids are young its “my team is better than your team” , “Your team has not even won a tournament”, “your coach is ----“. “yeah, you won the tournament but only because no good teams were there”, “she is a ball hog she should pass the ball”, “if she passed the ball my daughter could score a goal too”.

Now that the girls have reached recruiting age we have people knocking the top programs in the country. Many of the top lacrosse schools are also top academic institutions as well.

How many girls that were offered a spot at Duke, Northwestern, Notre Dame, Princeton, Stanford, Boston College, Virginia, Georgetown, Penn, Hopkins or North Carolina said no thanks, I’m going to go to: Elon, Colgate, Lafayette, Manhattan etc...

How about this, they are all good schools. Have your daughter go to the school that is the best fit for her.

So, your hyper-defensive rant not withstanding, it turns out we agree. The girls should go to the school that is the best fit for her...and that may include passing on an opportunity to play for a top 10 team.

Your last sentence is very, very sound advice all the way around.

I think the whole recruiting for lacrosse has gotten out of hand. Parents and kids need to understand they are going to college first and playing lacrosse second. Only the very top players are being "recruited" by multiple schools and actually have choices. For most kids they have limited choices at the D1 level and lots of those are schools you would not necessarily want to go to.

My take from experience with two kids is first honestly evaluate your academic talent. Then be honest about your lacrosse talent. Then find a school that is at the intersection of both. You will have a better chance ending up with a good academic and lacrosse experience.

Look at Lax Power. You can understand your lacrosse talent by the Lax Power rating of the schools interested in you. If your daughter is being recruited by D1 teams in the 70s and 80s then she is a top 500 or 600 player. If she is being recruited by teams in the top 20 then she is a top 150 type player. I think this really helps frame things and keeps you from wasting time and being strung along by coaches .

Let's go Jaspers! But the Lax program is a mess, getting regularly wrecked by North Carolina and shut out by Hofstra this year like 15 - 20 to zip. Tried to step it up but very poor results with their new coach.

Probably there plenty of engineering majors on the men's squad (I didn't look it up). Close enough to so many hotbed suburban areas, but they don't get enough talent. Maybe all this publicity will help.

players are leaving Manhattan college!! And decommitting.. Poorly run program no love for the coach and no support from AD. That is a fact.

Parent of a "committed" 2018 here. Just spent last August through February going through the process and got a change to learn alot good and bad.

Based on our experience different programs allocate scholarship money very differently. Some hold pretty firm to .25 scholarships per player. Others allocate the major portion of those scholarships to secure "franchise" players as a strategy to out recruit the big name programs.

Heading into the process we read that we should not expect anymore than a 25% scholarship. By other insiders were told that at max a top prospect would get 75%.

In the fall 2014 certain programs actually did offer a "virtual" full ride i.e, 95% of total costs. Another offered ~85% of tuition. Yet another big name coach directly used the words "full ride." While these offers statistically have to be rare, they do exist and are even a standard for 1-2 players/class for some programs.

Inline with the initial guidance I received I believe a top 20 player has chance at a "virtual" full ride (i85%+). top 50 maybe 50-75%, top 100 25-50%, and the remaining top 200 are likely to have a shot at 25%. Considering that (NCAA D1) programs apply different strategies and some are very unlikely to exceed 25%.

Do not at the end of the day a number of these programs (including non-scholarship schools like ivys) are top academic institutions, and guaranteed or preferred admissions possible via lacrosse have significant value sans "money" in such a highly competitive college admissions climate.

Oh and of course at the end of the day pre NLI in year, all scholarship allocations are just a "gentlemens agreement" and can change (though I have yet to hear of a coach outright reneging)

That is an important point!

At some point, if the goal is largely to land a scholarship, you have to watch the ROI. I know I have spent upwards of $10k a year certain years in traveling, team fees, etc across 4 years say 8th-11th grade, this is potentially well over $40k and I know some parents who are pushing closer to $100k lifetime spend. For those parents if they are lucky enough to receive a 25% scholarship on a school with $50/yr net tuition. Then they are $50k in the whole, plus still have $150k in cost to cover via other means.

I somewhat justify the cost as such:

- Father/Son bonding - 30%
- Development of health and fitness habits - 20%
- Learning discipline, perseverance etc - 10%
- General life lessons of a team sport - 10%
- Increased access to top tier institutions - 15%
- Healthy social experience - 5%
- Networking/building long term national relationships - 5%
- Scholarship opps - 5%

Thus arguably I only need to recoup $10k of my $40k in a scholarship to see ROI. Or get a 15% increase in chances of admission to top 20 school. And even without out that we still would have gained 80% value in other very important things. Yes, they can be gained through other less expensive pursuits, but the choosen passion is Lacrosse.

Note: My son ultimately chose an Ivy, so there goes the money :^( :^ )

Officially there is a firewall between the aid offices and athletic dept (beyond the 12.5 scholarships), however as one would expect it seems the athletics dept has "nudge, nudge, wink, wink" influence. Some more than others.

Opps. Did not include the original past in the above. Guess I have to learn how to properly post ;^)

I guess no more than 30-50% of D1 programs are fully funded. Assuming your logic, if 1-2 players per class receive "full" scholarships, that leaves approx. 6 scholarships for the remaining 40+ roster.

I would like some thoughts on this, some schools do camps and expect their recruiting classes to participate which I understand here is the problem. It's a 3 day camp and a 3 hour flight she can only make two days because of a prior obligation so fly out on Monday morning fly back Tuesday night and miss one day of camp. She is signed and sealed with about a 45% scholarship is class of 2015. Cost of camp & flight about $900. We are not rich and money is a concern but we want to start out on the right foot and not have her missing camp in the back of the coaches minds in the fall. She did attend last year and the cost will not break the bank any input would be greatly appreciated. Thanks plus she is good either way missing or going.

But the ROI is priceless! Congrats to your son.

Agreed and Thanks.

There is some method to the madness of potentially being a crazy lax parent ;^)

I would communicate frankly with the Coach. My bet is they will understand. I think skipping the camp to focus on other financial priorities should be perfectly acceptable. If the coach is not understanding then that in itself may be a bad sign.

That "feels" about right. Of course that is for the fully funded programs that use big numbers to grab good players. Ultimately would differ by program and funding level.

So in that scenario you may have 24 players on 25% and 16 players full pay (walk on etc)

Don't be fooled by the travel websites saying committed. Many have been offered nothing more than admission to the school and a roster spot. Then if they qualify for academic money good for them. And they have a chance to compete for playing time.

there are essentially no full scholarships. I played with Dom Starsia at Brown and we are still friends. He will tell anybody in his 26 or so years as a head coach he has given 4 one year full rides...odds dictate your child will not be one of them. 12.6 scholarships to a d1 program and 50 kids. do the math and realize that only all americans get 50%, anything more is very rare. also rememeber athletic money is renewable every year, so if somebody plays better than your child the money you get can go down easier than up. academic money is for 4 years assuming grades stay intact.

And you know this how? Lets take a look at this logically okay we will start with admission to the school. WRONG what 10th grader even applied to college so admission to the school is completely wrong. You get admitted when you apply and get accepted not when you verbally commit. Even after you sign your letter of intent, first week of November senior year you still do not know if you got acceptted to the school. Sometime in April or May follow? Point #2 why would you verbally commit if your not getting any money as a 10th or 9th grader and diminish your chances of being recruited by a school that is willing to pay for a portion of school? Your going to say because thats the school he or she wants to go to but you dont get acceppted until your a senior and you apply. Verbally committing and getting acceppted to the school are two completely different things. So your statement is not well thought out. You may personnaly know all of the verbally committed players on all the travel websites and then yes I would be wrong.

websites show everyone even seniors. Post didn't reference what grade

"Coaches say there are good lacrosse opportunities in college for those who want them, but getting a Division I scholarship is a dream that less than one percent of them will achieve. Never mind a full ride.

Virginia coach Dom Starsia has had three Tewaaraton Award winners in Charlottesville — CHRIS ROTELLI, MATT WARD and STEELE STANWICK— whom he estimates combined for a little more than one full scholarship."


IF those 3 boys split one tuition scholarship, everyone on this site is delusional.

http://laxmagazine.com/high_school/...g_red_flags_on_the_club_lacrosse_circuit

I am referring to actual experience, when I say near full rides do exists. Of course 1) They are rare 2) Some programs never or almost never offer full rides.

Key is while it is ok to set expectations that they are unlikely, it is false to say they don't exist, or that every person who said they got one is lying.

For accuracy I am calling a near full ride 90%+ of total costs.

the bigger better deals are usually offered by lesser schools and programs where players can be the big fish in a smaller pond. The big programs get the studs to come for their lacrosse and the education. Weaker schools have to overpay for big time talent and every year some kids trade down to these type of programs. Syracuse, UNC, ND, Duke Virginia don't have to give away the farm to get anyone! Great schools, great lax

The reality is that most "scholarships" are a package of funding sources. Need based aid, plus merit aid, plus athletic with the latter typically representing the smallest funding stream of the three.

However, since there seems to be a certain status associated with athletic scholarships that tends to be what Mom and Dad focus on when regaling their friends and family with their stories from the recruiting wars.

I especially love it when I hear that a kid is going to Penn or Harvard on a full scholarship. Really? Since the Ivies offer no merit aid and no athletic aid these must be particularly needy folk or well, you do the math.

Here is a winning formula IMO. Have your kid spend 2 hours engaged in extra academic enrichment or community service for every one hour they spend in lacrosse. If you do that for 12 or 13 years scoring a 15-25% athletic scholarship can hopefully be paired with another 25% of merit aid. Toss in whatever other private scholarships and need-based aid you can score and you can realistically look to score a substantial discount off that 60K a year price tag that many outstanding schools are advertising as their retail cost.

This strategy will not work at the Ivies or the large public universities all of whom either offer no merit money or precious little.

Of course there are the service academies where everybody gets a "full scholarship" and guaranteed job placement to boot.

Have fun!

Full athletic rides... rare if any.

But I know a major D1 player that payed less than $5K to a $60K school when all the aid, merit, etc was added to the athletic scholarship. Granted he was a very good student.

To get that deal you better be the "Total Package!"

I have never heard any parent of a child headed to Penn or Harvard say their kid is getting a full scholarship. I know many parents who have turned down significant scholarships from other schools and instead sent their child to Penn and Harvard.

You are wrong. D2 can't combine athletic and academic or it all counts against athletic budget. you can't get 10k for lax and 15 for academics. one or the other. get good grades. academic money is for 4 years. athletic is a 1 year contract only. if you need money for school. you need really good grades or you need to be at a school where your child is their reach student not the school being your kids reach school

Fooled?? Do any of the websites mention anything about scholarships??

Lacrosse has always been about "getting into a school". Lacrosse has been used as a tool to enable a student athlete to be admitted to a school that would otherwise be beyond the students academic reach.

which is a 1 in a million, not relevent to 99.9999%

LOL Sounds like double talk, It is always implied that the commits get cash!

My son received both athletic and academic at a D2 school. You are correct that athletic money is traditionally only a one year deal. I am sure some coaches have promised and kept their word on a (4) year athletic. Academic is for (4) years but keep in mind you need to maintain a 3.0 GPA in most schools. Perhaps I misread your post but again, a lax player can get both athletic and academic in D2...

They can get both at D1 and D2 schools. They just have to have high enough grades and test scores. Otherwise the total amount counts against the athletic allotment.

coaches like smart kids, means more cash available for their program and less grief with passing your classes during the season

What about if a kid works really hard but can only maintain a high 80's average? Does having an IEP help or hurt? Realistically, if anyone has personally been through something like this please share your experience thank you. Lots of "I heard" but I don't know anyone who has actually been through the process

Correct. Agreed. For the poster initially quoted. Ivies only offer merit money or merit scholarships. They offer no athletic scholarships, and merit money is based on a formula independent of athletics or academics. What lacrosse can gain you is preferred admission to a schools with single digit acceptance rates, for which some parents would sacrifice a limb to get their child accepted at.

Correction to my above post. When I said merit scholarship. I meant need-based aid. Oops.

The ivies want liberal, ethnically diverse, economically challenged students. Lax might be your only way in!

Another hater. Guess your kid was not recruited by Harvard. Neither was mine but I am not bitter.

What coach doesn't extend an athletic scholarship each year unless the kid has other issues on and off the field? That rarely happens I played with guys that got money for four years and didn't see the field at all but they were good teammates on and off the field. The coach really has to have a vendetta against the kid to take back his money. Plus the scholarships are budgeted and the coach knows how much money he has before he offers he doesn't rob Peter to pay Paul. Please tell me a story where a players scholarship was not renewed based soley on his playing ability. That rarely happens.

Sounded like a positive plug for why we all do this, to get our kids into college and maybe a stretch college. In this case Lacrosse would be the way in to a school that might not have you without it. How is this bitter?

My daughter just finished up her first year at a top 5 D2 lax program and received 15k athletic and 16k academic scholarships.

Thanks for the honesty and being brave enough to admit D2 can be a good trip. Lemoyne comes in the cheapest at 45k with Stonehill the highest at $52. at either school your kid is playing lax and going to a private for less than SUNY tuition which is great. Congrats

stonehill does not have a varsity mens team.
its a small (18-19) player club team . plays about 8 games.

Women play lacrosse too, ya know. This thread is not only relating to males.

women were ranked #4

IEP wont help you. My kid had a 3.6 from a great school, with APs etc and got nothing for academics. Just received athletic money. We beat the drum on the IEP hard too.

How is $45k-$52k less than a SUNY school? I'm just trying to follow your logic, thanks.

Thank you

kid got 31k. Suny is 20-22. 48 less the 31 is 17 for a nice private. That's great!

Anyone have a daughter attend the Nike Top of the Class camp up in Mass? It is run by Harvard/Stanford/UNC coaches with others apparently in attendance. If so can you report on the experience w regard to whether it was a helpful camp for recruiting? Thanks.

What does IEP stand for?

Individualized Educational Program for Special Education Students

I don't think that high 80's qualifies.

Question - with the news that UVA just committed a 2019, when do the D-III's start committing? In particular the NESCAC schools? End of freshman year? End of sophomore year? Thanks for any feedback,

I think you have to define recruiting. When do they start watching kids and making their lists, when do they start talking with kids, when do they start inviting kids to visit campus, when do they start offering spots?

Just a year or so ago I would laugh when I heard someone say the IVY's or Duke do not recruit early. They were recruiting, they were just keeping it quiet. They were watching kids and having some conversations but they were trying to keep it on the DL. Now they are right there with the others.

If I had to guess, the top programs are watching the 2018 from a distance but their primary focus is on 2017 and 2016.

I could be wrong but I don't think they are trying to go head to head with the Big Boys in recruiting the Top 2019's.

My guess is there sweet spot is the rising juniors.

Not based on personal experience just my guess. What say you?

D3's will usually give a verbal roster spot to a rising senior, some of the biggies go a year earlier that's about it. Anything earlier is a waste of time because they know D1 and D2's could throw some money at a kid. But the summer going into senior year the D3's know you are sure about attending.

Then the signing is just for show since their is no $$ offered.

Still a great day for all those who commit

Has anyone heard stories of coaches decommitting from kids?

Absolutely...If you dont get the grades or the SAT scores,it surely does happen..Saw it firsthand...
Admissions has every right to deny. This is why it's called a verbal committment.Nothing it set in stone,until signing day. It will happen more often now,with all this early recruiting..Its also gonna happen as parents,realize that a school that they have verbally committed their son/daughter to,may NOT be the right fit...And there will be another student/athlete that will fit that spot...

Coaches will also decommit,because they will not want a student/athlete to bring down their team GPA....They will bring in another Student/athlete with a higher GPA,who can also bring up the team GPA...Remember,it's Student/Athlete,NOT Athlete/student...

What if the student athlete performs in the classroom but the playing progress is not as expected? Have you seen those kind of situations where a coach will decommit?

I have never scene that,but I would put money on they'd find a way to let the kid go....

With all this early recruiting,many recruits get complacent and lazy,while the uncommitted are working very hard to secure a spot,which wasn't handed to them early! I believe,IMO,that the later recruit will work harder for a coach..maybe not everytime,but most of the time.

NEVER "SCENE" THAT ? REALLY ?

On many teams the hardest workers are the walk ons / no scholarship kids. They want a roster spot first and then the money will come in year 2 if they contribute. Just look at all the BUSTS in the NFL, NBA, NHL and Baseball drafts. Now ask a college coach to make a guess about an 8th, 9th or 10th grade immature, not done growing (or maybe they have??) kid who hasn't even taken their PSAT yet. Really tough to do. Anyone can pick out Lebron JAmes but after that its really really hard to do!

Wow,you make one grammatical error and you are called out for it...you have too much tiome on your hands!

I think you mean "time".

I think I do!!!!! LOL or Laugh out loud,just in case you were to question what that stands for...

You'd be an awesome proof reader.

I think it's called fat fingers and a tiny keyboard on that mistake,Mr.Know it all.

Back to the subject.

Does anyone have any experience on how financial aid factors into athletic scholarship money. Is it on addition to or do they factor the scholarship money into the aid package? Any info would be greatly appreciated.

If I understand it correctly, at the D1 level you can not combine athletic scholarship money and need based financial aid (without it counting against the coaches count). If a coach were to combine 50% need based aid with 50% athletic scholarship it would count as "one full scholarship". It would count against the coaches maximum allowable athletic scholarships.

You can combine academic scholarship and athletic scholarship. 50% academic money and 50% athletic money would only count as .5 of the coaches maximum allowable.

That is not what the Coach told us (big 10 school). Said that they were separate. Anyone else have experience here?

They are separate. All three are separate however, you can combine athletic and academic without impacting the coaches count. If you were to combine athletic and need based aid it would impact the count therefore I do not believe most coaches would do it.

Just to clarify, please see below.

You would think this would be an easy question to answer. And it is for NCAA D3 schools since they aren’t allowed to offer any athletic scholarships so the answer is no. As for D1 or D2 schools, if you just stop and think about it a little, you would begin to realize that there’s no way it could possibly have a simple answer.

Why is that? Just imagine if schools could freely give athletes scholarships for academic qualifications instead of athletic abilities. There’s no limit on the number of academic (or merit) scholarships that colleges and universities can award. And there are no minimum qualifications. Schools give out scholarships for music, art, drama, leadership, and community service without demanding excessive academic qualifications.

Surely you can see the issue here. What’s to stop schools from providing all of their athletes with merit scholarships and just skip the limitations of athletic scholarships?

There is something in the NCAA, it’s called Bylaw 15.02.4.3. This rule states that any financial aid except that which is specifically exempted is going to count as athletic aid and make the student a “counter” in terms of scholarships.

Federal and state financial aid based on need is exempted. Academic scholarships for freshman may be exempted if the students meets one of the following conditions depending on the division:

Division 1
&#9726;Top 10% of the high school graduating class
&#9726;Achieve a cumulative high school GPA of at least 3.50
&#9726;Score 1200 or higher on the SAT or ACT sum score of at least 105

Thanks for the info. Going through this now. Will let everyone know what actually happens in a few months

I took my 14 year old 2019 grad year son to a 2019 Top D1 prospect camp recently at the behest of his club coach. I would estimate there were 70-75 kids attending and I was truly amazed at the talent level. We had never attended a prospect camp and this is all new to me. My son's club coach also attended and had a relationship with one of the coaches who was running the camp. After the camp's conclusion, the club coach introduced me to the coach. In the course of our conversation the coach complimented my sons play and remarked he really played well especially considering "nearly 60% of the players are already 16 years old and four are 17". I was shocked but I guess I shouldn't be. The club coached explained how desperate parents/players are to attend a top D1 school and dropping a year or two improves their chances. So, a kid starts school a year late and then does a PG year? Or a kid is held back and then does a PG year? I think its lunacy and will harm the sport in the long run.

were you given direction that you could do the same and increase your chances.

I too attended a prospect camp with my son and was told similar figures. There were 17Yo sophomores, did some quick math which would make them 19yo seniors. I think my son gained some respect with some players since they found out he was 14 but it is not a healthy situation.

I think I was told the age stats to open my eyes and possible proide a path to this university. Nothing was ever overt.

Are girls staying back at the same rate? Know of one girl committed to a top 5 college team that is two years older than most in her grade.

What the heck are we doing to this sport? I would have laughed (actually my father would have) at a coach if he suggested that I would be considered for a roster spot 1 or 2 years after my HS graduation. I grew up blue collar on LI and I'm sure there are still plenty of families in the same situation. Lacrosse helped me get into and pay for a college education that would have been unimaginable without it. To say its sad to see just doesn't express how I feel. So, if your family can't afford a PG year or your son wasn't held back...you are SOL?

Not sure if you have the luxury of your dad around now, I do. Ive discussed this and he says sure as $hitting he would listen to what the coach had to say. It is all about getting the next generation better than theirs. and if one year back did that, he would see to it as a parent he did what was best to help the future for me.

Do not agree when you do it without direction but if you're given a go ahead and a mapped out plan sign us up.

Can anyone give me insight on the military academies? My kid who is a freshman just informed me that's what he wants to do. Not sure if I want him to do that but I have to support him. Is it easier to get into if they want you for a sport? Should I contact them stating he is interested. How many kids really want to do that? You are definitely not getting the same college experience going to a regular school I'm assuming.

Speak to hs/club coach- they will have some familiarity with the process from a lacrosse perspective. Plenty of info out there on the academies via their websites, which all have a lot of useful info. Not too early at all in terms of showing interest but you have to arm yourself with the information - talk to graduates or families of those who have gone through -they are your best source.

Yes thank you it is appreciated. I know they take alot of incoming freshman and have heard most go to prep their first year. My son said he would have no problem doing that.

The maps/naps schools are free (or at least they used to be). At the Academies, athletes do not get very much of a break (if any) on academics so this type of PG year is a survival mechanism for kids who will be plenty busy with military training even without the burden of D-1 sports.

Yeah I hear its extremely tough. You have to have a mindset that this is something you really believe in doing. But as a freshman how many kids really want to do that? Plus you have to give them 5yrs after you graduate. And the way of the world now you will probably see combat.

And they pay you ty o go! Graduates come out with 200k in bank account rather than owing that. Not a bad deal if you are tough enough!

If your son/daughter wants to go to an Academy one thing you should do is in their Junior year enroll in the Summer Program. This is a one week mini session on what it will be like there. Do your homework now. Find out how its done. Four years ago when my son went registration for it opened up at midnight in the beginning of March and it sold out quickly. It was around $350 for the week. It is a great learning experience for them. If they pass the course you are an automatic candidate into any of the academies. Email the coaches like you would any other college coach. Remember in the Academies they recruit a lot of freshmen because the percentage of kids that are able to keep up with the heavy academics and athletics are less than in regular college. one thing that is for sure is after they graduate they will have $ in the bank and when they retire from service they will be set for life . The Alumni are a strong group that takes care of their own.

Set for life? In what way? I did business with a Company that hired many WP grads... None were set for life. They had to work hard for life, like everyone else.

Are you suggesting students are paid 50k a year to go? Many of the young men and women who attend the military academies go because of financial inability. That said, they serve their country and give back for the education they receive, sometimes making the ultimate sacrifice, none of them are $200k richer for it.

Cadets/Midshipmen do not graduate with $200k in the bank unless mommy put it there.
Pay received goes quickly toward uniforms, laundry services and other expenses. There is enough left over for some normal expense that college kids have. Such as pizza, beer and gas money (seniors have cars on base).
With that said the Academies are an incredible value IF your kid wants that lifestyle and is qualified.

Hop is right. One does not leave with $200k. A cadet's 'pay' goes to his/her account in the credit union and the money is used for more than the expenses mentioned above.

Want insight to decision making in regard to an academy? Perhaps this will help:

I attended an academy and chose to leave early. A decision I regret much of the time, but my decision for attending was misguided. I will not tell you the reasons of my departure as you would be shocked and it's not important for the purpose of this post. Below is what I figured out when I was around 28, my mind more mature, and long gone from an academy.

I was asked to play lacrosse, coming from a no-name school on the island, and had to pay my college tuition myself. I had high grades and boards, and made my mark on the field. The decision should be easy, right? Not so.

It's a very difficult decision for an 18 year old and there's even more burden if your family is in a tight situation financially. Don't make that a primary reason to attend! If you're qualified to get an offer from an academy, your qualified to be successful no matter what you do.

To anyone considering an academy: Know you have to be cut from a very particular cloth to attend AND graduate. It's a completely different mindset and way of life, while being one of the most honorable achievements to graduate. Don't let the latter point get in the way of the decision to attend, as the mindset and understanding of an academy's purpose is most important. The honor comes from commitment and beliefs in the system.

Also remember, the 'cadet' is ultimately trained to be a 'soldier' first, so ask yourself what is a soldiers purpose? Know it comes with sacrifices. One could be your life, yes. One can be leading others to a similar fate which you may have to live with. Interestingly, some never consider the flip side. Are they are willing/able to take the life of another human being?

If one graduates and makes it through, it can be a very rewarding path, don't get me wrong. It was my initial plan to play lacrosse, get thru with fewer obligated service years post graduation since the military was downsizing, and run a team on Wall St. After all, I would be bred a leader who can manage a platoon/company of individuals and make high level decisions under pressure. I'd be ahead of other professionals my age. Then I'd reap all the rewards and all the materialistic things that went along with Wall St. That's what I was told by those who guided my naive 18 year old mind. BUT that's not what academies are about and one doesn't attend for that reason alone. That is just one example of a misguided decision.

Deciding to go is a decision of a lifetime and it must be thought out carefully. For only lacrosse/sports and 'getting paid' to go there, it's not the right reason to attend. There are other great men and women that know the academy is what they want, and they would do anything to live that life and wear the uniform. Know you may be taking a spot away from some great individual if you are not 'ALL IN'.

Make sure you love what it represents first, considering all the benefits and connections in the real world down the road were taken away. Then consider the sacrifices. Then consider the way of life. Are you 'all in'?

Lastly, thank you to all the men and women who served since the birth of this great country. I saw only a small glimpse of the sacrifice and hard work our servicemen have done, and it opened my eyes. Be thankful they provide the means for your way of life, and for you not having to see the battlefield.

different subject same theme. what happens to a recruit who gets themselves in trouble and gets booted from team prior to graduation? does the college usually still take them?

I am sure every situation is different.

If you live in MA, the DMV or PA here's how it goes. You are already most likely a hold back. So you re-class again, drop down yet another year and get picked up again. You may say I'm crazy, but this is the exact scenario of a kid on my son's team at Showtime. He was a 17 year old rising Sophomore who was de-committed from one ACC team because of off the field issues. Re-classed and was committed to a new ACC team. Kid should be a 2016. Is now 2018. He's on one of those travel team's that always seems to get much better (cough ugh, older) right around 9th - 10th grade. Too funny, or sad depending on how you look at it.

As a parent of an 8th grader, when/how should I be looking into freshman showcase events?

Thanks in advance

oh man!! you are so late to be looking into this.
your chances of being recruited are very slim. all the full rides are probably gone.

We started contacting fall of freshman year and my daughter did really well for her self. a lot depends on your goals and expectations. D1 sooner then 2 or 3

Showcase events are not critical. Playing on a Club
Team that competes in the top tournaments is very important. If you know where your son/daughter would like to go to college be sure to attend that schools camp.

Reach out and find someone to give an honest evaluation of what caliber athlete your child is.

Rising 9th grade summer and the fall of 9th grade is when the "Top" prospects will be identified by college coaches. The players who are in that group will all be contacted, recruited and offered spots by multiple schools. If your kid is not in that group don't worry the recruiting process does not end when the top players are committed.

Never blow a coach off thinking that the school is below the student athletes academic or athletic abilities. There are many reasons why you do not want to do this but here are a few that are important.

1: Coaches change schools. If a coach expresses interest "likes the athlete" they may change schools and end up at a school that your child would love to go to.

2: It would be great to go to a Top 20 Lacrosse School considering most are great academic institutions as well. However, if Top 20 schools are not offering your child a spot they are most likely not that caliber athlete. Focus on the schools that are expressing interest.

3. If money is a major factor, be willing to consider schools that you think are a notch below the students athletic and academic abilities. The potential for $$$ is significantly greater.

Good luck to all.

Our oldest son played lacrosse for Maritime. Great school. He got some academic scholarship money, we got in-state tuition (plus additional cost of mandatory summer sea terms)and he got a $100K+ job when he graduated this past spring.

YOur happy ending stories will be lost on most here because they want some "athletic money" so they can continue bragging at work. D3 is the way to go...

Please Post the Truth! Where are you now, a few years after graduating college.
Girls 2006
Girls 2007
Girls 2008
Girls 2009

Can you enlighten us on your experience doing all the travel lax, committing in 9th and 10th grades to D1 schools.
Did you graduate in 4 years
How much school loan debt do you and your parents now have

Most importantly; do you have a good job in your field of study?

Would you take the same route again, what would you do differently?

Thanks, this could be a huge help to those of us with younger kids.

I don't have a lax player in those ages but my daughter did.

2008 grads: both committed early senior year. One to the NCAA D2 champ team, and one who became a Teewarton nominee. The takeaway point is there wasn't this early committing crap then. Both gainfully employed.

2009 grad: I can't remember when she committed but it was Jr or Sr year, no sooner; she went on to play in the Patriot league and won many accolades. Now gainfully employed.

To the best of my recollection, even six years ago there were not all these early recruits.

My son is in year three of great D3, NCAA Tournament level school. Received $60,000 in merit and academic money. Continues to get that money as long as he stays in school, not dependent upon Lacrosse.

And a lot of people overlook kings point also. People are hung up on seeing their kid on TV at this big time division 1 schools. I know a lot of kids who graduated at those big lacrosse schools and don't make nearly the salary as some of the boys who went d3.

my son same deal. while its not lax dependent , he was helped a lot thru the admissions process because of athletics. financial package at very good school almost half off.

My son just committed to a mid D1 school and got a 1/2 athletic and a chance to earn full tuition based on his academics and test scores. The process was great, coaches were awesome and consistent through the process. My son worked hard and he earned it and although its not considered a top program or a top school, I think its the perfect fit for him and he is ecstatic with his decision and in the end isnt that what matters?

Good for him

Just recieved my son's NLI. It states in writing that his %scholarship is guaranteed for all for years. I thought someone once mentioned on here that the scholarship and amount can be changed from year to year. His coach told us the amount could only be increased and not subject to decrease. Does this sound correct?

7.4m high school athletes.
460,000 play in college
That is 6% of HS players continuing to play
Of the 6% about 2% get athletic money

What league? Some league it is a rule once they offer it cannot change I believe ACC and Big 10 have this for all Div 1 athletes.

Good luck to your son

It's big 10. Knowing the athletics money is going to be there for the full 4 years is a bug relief!

I second that. Good for him. Playing Division I (and II and III) sports is a great accomplishment no matter where they play. Some fools on here will have you think otherwise.

What is the new rule about the meals with Div 2

Be very leery of club teams that have kids fly in from around the country and a consulting fee if you want your kid showcased.