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by Anonymous. 12/14/18 10:26 PM
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by Anonymous. 12/14/18 04:05 PM
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Boys 2022 -9th Grade Fall 2018/Summer 2019
by Anonymous. 12/14/18 01:03 PM
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Re: Boys 2022 -9th Grade Fall 2018/Summer 2019 [Re: Anonymous] #277666
12/05/18 10:29 PM
12/05/18 10:29 PM

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
In ALL the HUGE number of conversations about holdbacks, I have yet to see anyone make a case for why it's a good system. The best folks can do is insult the parents and their kids who play on-age ("Hit the wall" "Get better").

No rational person who cared about the kids would design a club system with holdbacks. The ONLY reason it is done is to make it easier for college coaches to attend recruiting events.

You are forgetting the primary reason this system was created and the largest benefactor. Private schools. This does not apply only to sports. Private schools have a small pool if parents that can pay 15-45K per year for K-12. Over time that is serious money. Many of these parents are encouraged to do so at a young age. This way they get an extra year of tuition. If they hold back another year that is one more year. As the best lacrosse programs collect these students at private schools, lacrosse is impacted even more by this. It is not good for the development of the sport, it does not improve the college game or make it easier on college coaches to get older players. THE reason it grows is the extra year of tuition payments. I do not know of any public school holdbacks.


That's silly. There are plenty of public school holdbacks.


Someone has no idea what they are talking about.



This has been happening for decades in basketball, football and baseball with public and private kids. So many public school kids have gone on to do an extra year before entering college. An extra year to develop more mentally and or physically. Private school folks just mastered it by repeating early grades or starting late or calling it a Post Grad year,All options vs Red Shirting in college ,which most who do that do not have income to pay for a private school to get the extra year. Not every public school kid is poor either. Plenty of wealthy folks in public schools who do the same thing as private wealthy folks.
Because these sports are the main attraction at every level of almost any college and get the most scholarships it is not magnified like the lacrosse world. Lacrosse world is known to most to be a wealthy sport with limited exposure and limited scholarships. Much easier for the wealthy to manipulate the system even though they can out right pay for the tuition of their kids. This is a system that has been going on for decades with public and private school kids and the lacrosse community seems to embrace it because the college role it plays. Fair or not there is plenty of lacrosse for all now and there surely is a place for all levels of lacrosse.


The biggest issue is with youth sports. It is a huge advantage being a year older than most and is not in the spirit of youth athletics, It is a cancer on youth sports that no one can justify and especially now with recruiting done in soph/JR year. I have never seen as many holdbacks in lacrosse as there are now. I have been around youth/HS lacrosse for over 30 years. Frankly its seems like an epidemic as everyone knows there is a BIG advantage at youth level. Sorta sad ,

High School is still an advantage but you do have a 4 year spread to minimize it, but for many the extra year advantage carries on in JV/Varsity due to more playing time in youth.

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Re: Boys 2022 -9th Grade Fall 2018/Summer 2019 [Re: Anonymous] #277667
12/05/18 10:44 PM
12/05/18 10:44 PM

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Wrong. Madlax 2022 is the best in the area.


91MD
RR
Hawks
Fca
Crabs
DCE/Madlax(pick em)
API


FCA went 5-4 this fall. May want to rethink your rankings.

Well, 2 of the 4 losses are to the teams he has in front of them. They beat DCE. Did they lose to any of the MD teams behind them?

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Re: Boys 2022 -9th Grade Fall 2018/Summer 2019 [Re: Anonymous] #277674
12/06/18 09:25 AM
12/06/18 09:25 AM

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Originally Posted by Anonymous



Actually, somebody, (probably an "API dad") was poking fun at Hawks for losing. The follow up comment about "RR parents crying about the fowl, forcing the refs to throw flags and being soft," is probably what kicked off the donut comment, but both comments were wrong. The reality is that It was a blatant foul. Parents on EVERY team call those out, especially when a player is down on the field as a result. There were several helmet to helmet hits in the game. Hawks were getting flustered in the second half and getting physical and chippy. It happens. RR played through it and did what they needed to do. All the kids and coaches lined up and shook hands after the game with no hard feelings until BOTC. There is a shocker! As for the other antagonistic comments regarding RR "style of play and holdbacks", you are clearly just deflecting or inviting more comments and its not even remotely close by comparison. Last year, over half the RR players couldn't even jump off a springboard to hit a Hawk in the helmet. You have had the biggest team in 2022 club lacrosse for years until last Spring. During that time RR and other teams have had maybe 3-4 kids total who would be considered an average size player on the Hawks roster? The size advantage has almost completely diminished since last Spring. Learn how to lose gracefully like others did before you.


^^^

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Re: Boys 2022 -9th Grade Fall 2018/Summer 2019 [Re: Anonymous] #277697
12/06/18 05:23 PM
12/06/18 05:23 PM

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
In ALL the HUGE number of conversations about holdbacks, I have yet to see anyone make a case for why it's a good system. The best folks can do is insult the parents and their kids who play on-age ("Hit the wall" "Get better").

No rational person who cared about the kids would design a club system with holdbacks. The ONLY reason it is done is to make it easier for college coaches to attend recruiting events.

You are forgetting the primary reason this system was created and the largest benefactor. Private schools. This does not apply only to sports. Private schools have a small pool if parents that can pay 15-45K per year for K-12. Over time that is serious money. Many of these parents are encouraged to do so at a young age. This way they get an extra year of tuition. If they hold back another year that is one more year. As the best lacrosse programs collect these students at private schools, lacrosse is impacted even more by this. It is not good for the development of the sport, it does not improve the college game or make it easier on college coaches to get older players. THE reason it grows is the extra year of tuition payments. I do not know of any public school holdbacks.


That's silly. There are plenty of public school holdbacks.


Someone has no idea what they are talking about.



This has been happening for decades in basketball, football and baseball with public and private kids. So many public school kids have gone on to do an extra year before entering college. An extra year to develop more mentally and or physically. Private school folks just mastered it by repeating early grades or starting late or calling it a Post Grad year,All options vs Red Shirting in college ,which most who do that do not have income to pay for a private school to get the extra year. Not every public school kid is poor either. Plenty of wealthy folks in public schools who do the same thing as private wealthy folks.
Because these sports are the main attraction at every level of almost any college and get the most scholarships it is not magnified like the lacrosse world. Lacrosse world is known to most to be a wealthy sport with limited exposure and limited scholarships. Much easier for the wealthy to manipulate the system even though they can out right pay for the tuition of their kids. This is a system that has been going on for decades with public and private school kids and the lacrosse community seems to embrace it because the college role it plays. Fair or not there is plenty of lacrosse for all now and there surely is a place for all levels of lacrosse.


The biggest issue is with youth sports. It is a huge advantage being a year older than most and is not in the spirit of youth athletics, It is a cancer on youth sports that no one can justify and especially now with recruiting done in soph/JR year. I have never seen as many holdbacks in lacrosse as there are now. I have been around youth/HS lacrosse for over 30 years. Frankly its seems like an epidemic as everyone knows there is a BIG advantage at youth level. Sorta sad ,

High School is still an advantage but you do have a 4 year spread to minimize it, but for many the extra year advantage carries on in JV/Varsity due to more playing time in youth.





agree for the part with the last 2 post but I clearly remember playing u9,u11,u13,for all sports growing up , meaning that 1 year I was on the younger side and year I was on the older side. Boys also always catch up to their older or even just more mature peers. Biggest , tallest and fastest doesn't always mean older. The advantage having grade based is clearly a kid never gets to be on the younger side of the coin.

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Re: Boys 2022 -9th Grade Fall 2018/Summer 2019 [Re: TM@BOTC] #277717
12/07/18 10:38 AM
12/07/18 10:38 AM

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When you are 16 in the 9th grade and playing against kids who haven’t even gone through puberty the advantage is HUGE. Look at the early recruits in the 2020 class from Baltimore area - the bulk of them were reclassed or pre-first or both. Last summer’s UA tournament had 18s who graduated playing as 19s because they were doing a PG year. In what other sport is gaming the system such commonplace?

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Re: Boys 2022 -9th Grade Fall 2018/Summer 2019 [Re: TM@BOTC] #277718
12/07/18 10:49 AM
12/07/18 10:49 AM

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Glad to see that the back of the cage crazies have calmed down after last weeks games. wink

Have a safe holiday and hug a re-classed kid. His life is rough. wink

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Re: Boys 2022 -9th Grade Fall 2018/Summer 2019 [Re: TM@BOTC] #277722
12/07/18 12:53 PM
12/07/18 12:53 PM

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Club ball is almost in its dormant stages for the Winter and Spring. Alert for parents with first time high school players: Maryland private high school lacrosse has its fair share of nepotism. Some A Conference schools turn a blind eye to blatant "daddy ball" and/or nepotistic politics while others don't have this issue. Caveat emptor and hope your son is not competing against the coach's son for PT. If so, its going to be a long Spring, watching your son stand on that sideline. Trust me when I tell you, this often the proverbial "elephant in the room".

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Re: Boys 2022 -9th Grade Fall 2018/Summer 2019 [Re: Anonymous] #277723
12/07/18 01:03 PM
12/07/18 01:03 PM

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
When you are 16 in the 9th grade and playing against kids who haven’t even gone through puberty the advantage is HUGE. Look at the early recruits in the 2020 class from Baltimore area - the bulk of them were reclassed or pre-first or both. Last summer’s UA tournament had 18s who graduated playing as 19s because they were doing a PG year. In what other sport is gaming the system such commonplace?



College coaches LOVE these players. Bubba Fairman was older than everyone by 2 years and was dubbed the best player in the class. Guy should have been in his sophomore year in college.

STM attackmen did the 18/19 swap. Crazy but that’s what the coaches want and the players are rewarded with all the accolades.

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Re: Boys 2022 -9th Grade Fall 2018/Summer 2019 [Re: TM@BOTC] #277724
12/07/18 01:07 PM
12/07/18 01:07 PM

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Is the Hawks goalie a 2023?

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Re: Boys 2022 -9th Grade Fall 2018/Summer 2019 [Re: Anonymous] #277725
12/07/18 01:27 PM
12/07/18 01:27 PM

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
When you are 16 in the 9th grade and playing against kids who haven’t even gone through puberty the advantage is HUGE. Look at the early recruits in the 2020 class from Baltimore area - the bulk of them were reclassed or pre-first or both. Last summer’s UA tournament had 18s who graduated playing as 19s because they were doing a PG year. In what other sport is gaming the system such commonplace?


Hmm. Let's see. Basketball, Football, Soccer,.....

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Re: Boys 2022 -9th Grade Fall 2018/Summer 2019 [Re: TM@BOTC] #277730
12/07/18 02:28 PM
12/07/18 02:28 PM

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
When you are 16 in the 9th grade and playing against kids who haven’t even gone through puberty the advantage is HUGE. Look at the early recruits in the 2020 class from Baltimore area - the bulk of them were reclassed or pre-first or both. Last summer’s UA tournament had 18s who graduated playing as 19s because they were doing a PG year. In what other sport is gaming the system such commonplace?


Hmm. Let's see. Basketball, Football, Soccer,.....

Hilarious.. Soccer is very strict about age in classifying at single year with actual cards verifying age. ALL elite programs are like this including ALL professional team farm systems, They have do the best at keeping players going against players within an age bracket. Largest sport in world

Football has the occasional holdback to get bigger but many elite athletes are on age, Go look at any recruiting sheet on top football players ( if you have access) ALL put age on the sheet. Limited over age players. Lacrosse all put grade. LOL

Basketball?? BB did the grade thing for short while and it was a disaster. AAU is by age except in certain places. You think it is bad here ..BB went nuts with holdbacks and dialed it back to age.

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Re: Boys 2022 -9th Grade Fall 2018/Summer 2019 [Re: Anonymous] #277735
12/07/18 04:18 PM
12/07/18 04:18 PM

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Club ball is almost in its dormant stages for the Winter and Spring. Alert for parents with first time high school players: Maryland private high school lacrosse has its fair share of nepotism. Some A Conference schools turn a blind eye to blatant "daddy ball" and/or nepotistic politics while others don't have this issue. Caveat emptor and hope your son is not competing against the coach's son for PT. If so, its going to be a long Spring, watching your son stand on that sideline. Trust me when I tell you, this often the proverbial "elephant in the room".


Who?? Calvert Hall has a lot of players with the same name as coach, but they seem to be good players? Who are you talking about?

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Re: Boys 2022 -9th Grade Fall 2018/Summer 2019 [Re: Anonymous] #277737
12/07/18 05:38 PM
12/07/18 05:38 PM

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STM attackmen did the 18/19 swap. Crazy but that’s what the coaches want and the players are rewarded with all the accolades.
[/quote]

not true

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Re: Boys 2022 -9th Grade Fall 2018/Summer 2019 [Re: Anonymous] #277743
12/07/18 10:33 PM
12/07/18 10:33 PM

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
When you are 16 in the 9th grade and playing against kids who haven’t even gone through puberty the advantage is HUGE. Look at the early recruits in the 2020 class from Baltimore area - the bulk of them were reclassed or pre-first or both. Last summer’s UA tournament had 18s who graduated playing as 19s because they were doing a PG year. In what other sport is gaming the system such commonplace?


Hmm. Let's see. Basketball, Football, Soccer,.....

Hilarious.. Soccer is very strict about age in classifying at single year with actual cards verifying age. ALL elite programs are like this including ALL professional team farm systems, They have do the best at keeping players going against players within an age bracket. Largest sport in world

Football has the occasional holdback to get bigger but many elite athletes are on age, Go look at any recruiting sheet on top football players ( if you have access) ALL put age on the sheet. Limited over age players. Lacrosse all put grade. LOL

Basketball?? BB did the grade thing for short while and it was a disaster. AAU is by age except in certain places. You think it is bad here ..BB went nuts with holdbacks and dialed it back to age.


Football has a ridiculous number of holdbacks. The percentage at top private schools for football is at least equal to lacrosse. Basketball has many as well. No clue about soccer but you saying football has limited holdbacks calls into question anything else you say.

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Re: Boys 2022 -9th Grade Fall 2018/Summer 2019 [Re: Anonymous] #277745
12/08/18 03:59 AM
12/08/18 03:59 AM

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
When you are 16 in the 9th grade and playing against kids who haven’t even gone through puberty the advantage is HUGE. Look at the early recruits in the 2020 class from Baltimore area - the bulk of them were reclassed or pre-first or both. Last summer’s UA tournament had 18s who graduated playing as 19s because they were doing a PG year. In what other sport is gaming the system such commonplace?


Hmm. Let's see. Basketball, Football, Soccer,.....

Hilarious.. Soccer is very strict about age in classifying at single year with actual cards verifying age. ALL elite programs are like this including ALL professional team farm systems, They have do the best at keeping players going against players within an age bracket. Largest sport in world

Football has the occasional holdback to get bigger but many elite athletes are on age, Go look at any recruiting sheet on top football players ( if you have access) ALL put age on the sheet. Limited over age players. Lacrosse all put grade. LOL

Basketball?? BB did the grade thing for short while and it was a disaster. AAU is by age except in certain places. You think it is bad here ..BB went nuts with holdbacks and dialed it back to age.


Football has a ridiculous number of holdbacks. The percentage at top private schools for football is at least equal to lacrosse. Basketball has many as well. No clue about soccer but you saying football has limited holdbacks calls into question anything else you say.


Agreed. The best QB in the area is a 2021 at Gonzaga. He's too old to finish school there.

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