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Re: Boys 2022 -9th Grade Fall 2018/Summer 2019
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In ALL the HUGE number of conversations about holdbacks, I have yet to see anyone make a case for why it's a good system. The best folks can do is insult the parents and their kids who play on-age ("Hit the wall" "Get better").

No rational person who cared about the kids would design a club system with holdbacks. The ONLY reason it is done is to make it easier for college coaches to attend recruiting events.

You are forgetting the primary reason this system was created and the largest benefactor. Private schools. This does not apply only to sports. Private schools have a small pool if parents that can pay 15-45K per year for K-12. Over time that is serious money. Many of these parents are encouraged to do so at a young age. This way they get an extra year of tuition. If they hold back another year that is one more year. As the best lacrosse programs collect these students at private schools, lacrosse is impacted even more by this. It is not good for the development of the sport, it does not improve the college game or make it easier on college coaches to get older players. THE reason it grows is the extra year of tuition payments. I do not know of any public school holdbacks.


That's silly. There are plenty of public school holdbacks.


Someone has no idea what they are talking about.



This has been happening for decades in basketball, football and baseball with public and private kids. So many public school kids have gone on to do an extra year before entering college. An extra year to develop more mentally and or physically. Private school folks just mastered it by repeating early grades or starting late or calling it a Post Grad year,All options vs Red Shirting in college ,which most who do that do not have income to pay for a private school to get the extra year. Not every public school kid is poor either. Plenty of wealthy folks in public schools who do the same thing as private wealthy folks.
Because these sports are the main attraction at every level of almost any college and get the most scholarships it is not magnified like the lacrosse world. Lacrosse world is known to most to be a wealthy sport with limited exposure and limited scholarships. Much easier for the wealthy to manipulate the system even though they can out right pay for the tuition of their kids. This is a system that has been going on for decades with public and private school kids and the lacrosse community seems to embrace it because the college role it plays. Fair or not there is plenty of lacrosse for all now and there surely is a place for all levels of lacrosse.


The biggest issue is with youth sports. It is a huge advantage being a year older than most and is not in the spirit of youth athletics, It is a cancer on youth sports that no one can justify and especially now with recruiting done in soph/JR year. I have never seen as many holdbacks in lacrosse as there are now. I have been around youth/HS lacrosse for over 30 years. Frankly its seems like an epidemic as everyone knows there is a BIG advantage at youth level. Sorta sad ,

High School is still an advantage but you do have a 4 year spread to minimize it, but for many the extra year advantage carries on in JV/Varsity due to more playing time in youth.

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Re: Boys 2022 -9th Grade Fall 2018/Summer 2019
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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Wrong. Madlax 2022 is the best in the area.


91MD
RR
Hawks
Fca
Crabs
DCE/Madlax(pick em)
API


FCA went 5-4 this fall. May want to rethink your rankings.

Well, 2 of the 4 losses are to the teams he has in front of them. They beat DCE. Did they lose to any of the MD teams behind them?

Re: Boys 2022 -9th Grade Fall 2018/Summer 2019
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Originally Posted by Anonymous



Actually, somebody, (probably an "API dad") was poking fun at Hawks for losing. The follow up comment about "RR parents crying about the fowl, forcing the refs to throw flags and being soft," is probably what kicked off the donut comment, but both comments were wrong. The reality is that It was a blatant foul. Parents on EVERY team call those out, especially when a player is down on the field as a result. There were several helmet to helmet hits in the game. Hawks were getting flustered in the second half and getting physical and chippy. It happens. RR played through it and did what they needed to do. All the kids and coaches lined up and shook hands after the game with no hard feelings until BOTC. There is a shocker! As for the other antagonistic comments regarding RR "style of play and holdbacks", you are clearly just deflecting or inviting more comments and its not even remotely close by comparison. Last year, over half the RR players couldn't even jump off a springboard to hit a Hawk in the helmet. You have had the biggest team in 2022 club lacrosse for years until last Spring. During that time RR and other teams have had maybe 3-4 kids total who would be considered an average size player on the Hawks roster? The size advantage has almost completely diminished since last Spring. Learn how to lose gracefully like others did before you.


^^^

Re: Boys 2022 -9th Grade Fall 2018/Summer 2019
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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
In ALL the HUGE number of conversations about holdbacks, I have yet to see anyone make a case for why it's a good system. The best folks can do is insult the parents and their kids who play on-age ("Hit the wall" "Get better").

No rational person who cared about the kids would design a club system with holdbacks. The ONLY reason it is done is to make it easier for college coaches to attend recruiting events.

You are forgetting the primary reason this system was created and the largest benefactor. Private schools. This does not apply only to sports. Private schools have a small pool if parents that can pay 15-45K per year for K-12. Over time that is serious money. Many of these parents are encouraged to do so at a young age. This way they get an extra year of tuition. If they hold back another year that is one more year. As the best lacrosse programs collect these students at private schools, lacrosse is impacted even more by this. It is not good for the development of the sport, it does not improve the college game or make it easier on college coaches to get older players. THE reason it grows is the extra year of tuition payments. I do not know of any public school holdbacks.


That's silly. There are plenty of public school holdbacks.


Someone has no idea what they are talking about.



This has been happening for decades in basketball, football and baseball with public and private kids. So many public school kids have gone on to do an extra year before entering college. An extra year to develop more mentally and or physically. Private school folks just mastered it by repeating early grades or starting late or calling it a Post Grad year,All options vs Red Shirting in college ,which most who do that do not have income to pay for a private school to get the extra year. Not every public school kid is poor either. Plenty of wealthy folks in public schools who do the same thing as private wealthy folks.
Because these sports are the main attraction at every level of almost any college and get the most scholarships it is not magnified like the lacrosse world. Lacrosse world is known to most to be a wealthy sport with limited exposure and limited scholarships. Much easier for the wealthy to manipulate the system even though they can out right pay for the tuition of their kids. This is a system that has been going on for decades with public and private school kids and the lacrosse community seems to embrace it because the college role it plays. Fair or not there is plenty of lacrosse for all now and there surely is a place for all levels of lacrosse.


The biggest issue is with youth sports. It is a huge advantage being a year older than most and is not in the spirit of youth athletics, It is a cancer on youth sports that no one can justify and especially now with recruiting done in soph/JR year. I have never seen as many holdbacks in lacrosse as there are now. I have been around youth/HS lacrosse for over 30 years. Frankly its seems like an epidemic as everyone knows there is a BIG advantage at youth level. Sorta sad ,

High School is still an advantage but you do have a 4 year spread to minimize it, but for many the extra year advantage carries on in JV/Varsity due to more playing time in youth.





agree for the part with the last 2 post but I clearly remember playing u9,u11,u13,for all sports growing up , meaning that 1 year I was on the younger side and year I was on the older side. Boys also always catch up to their older or even just more mature peers. Biggest , tallest and fastest doesn't always mean older. The advantage having grade based is clearly a kid never gets to be on the younger side of the coin.

Re: Boys 2022 -9th Grade Fall 2018/Summer 2019
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When you are 16 in the 9th grade and playing against kids who haven’t even gone through puberty the advantage is HUGE. Look at the early recruits in the 2020 class from Baltimore area - the bulk of them were reclassed or pre-first or both. Last summer’s UA tournament had 18s who graduated playing as 19s because they were doing a PG year. In what other sport is gaming the system such commonplace?

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Re: Boys 2022 -9th Grade Fall 2018/Summer 2019
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Glad to see that the back of the cage crazies have calmed down after last weeks games. wink

Have a safe holiday and hug a re-classed kid. His life is rough. wink

Re: Boys 2022 -9th Grade Fall 2018/Summer 2019
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Club ball is almost in its dormant stages for the Winter and Spring. Alert for parents with first time high school players: Maryland private high school lacrosse has its fair share of nepotism. Some A Conference schools turn a blind eye to blatant "daddy ball" and/or nepotistic politics while others don't have this issue. Caveat emptor and hope your son is not competing against the coach's son for PT. If so, its going to be a long Spring, watching your son stand on that sideline. Trust me when I tell you, this often the proverbial "elephant in the room".

Re: Boys 2022 -9th Grade Fall 2018/Summer 2019
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Originally Posted by Anonymous
When you are 16 in the 9th grade and playing against kids who haven’t even gone through puberty the advantage is HUGE. Look at the early recruits in the 2020 class from Baltimore area - the bulk of them were reclassed or pre-first or both. Last summer’s UA tournament had 18s who graduated playing as 19s because they were doing a PG year. In what other sport is gaming the system such commonplace?



College coaches LOVE these players. Bubba Fairman was older than everyone by 2 years and was dubbed the best player in the class. Guy should have been in his sophomore year in college.

STM attackmen did the 18/19 swap. Crazy but that’s what the coaches want and the players are rewarded with all the accolades.

Re: Boys 2022 -9th Grade Fall 2018/Summer 2019
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Is the Hawks goalie a 2023?

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
When you are 16 in the 9th grade and playing against kids who haven’t even gone through puberty the advantage is HUGE. Look at the early recruits in the 2020 class from Baltimore area - the bulk of them were reclassed or pre-first or both. Last summer’s UA tournament had 18s who graduated playing as 19s because they were doing a PG year. In what other sport is gaming the system such commonplace?


Hmm. Let's see. Basketball, Football, Soccer,.....

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Re: Boys 2022 -9th Grade Fall 2018/Summer 2019
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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
When you are 16 in the 9th grade and playing against kids who haven’t even gone through puberty the advantage is HUGE. Look at the early recruits in the 2020 class from Baltimore area - the bulk of them were reclassed or pre-first or both. Last summer’s UA tournament had 18s who graduated playing as 19s because they were doing a PG year. In what other sport is gaming the system such commonplace?


Hmm. Let's see. Basketball, Football, Soccer,.....

Hilarious.. Soccer is very strict about age in classifying at single year with actual cards verifying age. ALL elite programs are like this including ALL professional team farm systems, They have do the best at keeping players going against players within an age bracket. Largest sport in world

Football has the occasional holdback to get bigger but many elite athletes are on age, Go look at any recruiting sheet on top football players ( if you have access) ALL put age on the sheet. Limited over age players. Lacrosse all put grade. LOL

Basketball?? BB did the grade thing for short while and it was a disaster. AAU is by age except in certain places. You think it is bad here ..BB went nuts with holdbacks and dialed it back to age.

Re: Boys 2022 -9th Grade Fall 2018/Summer 2019
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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Club ball is almost in its dormant stages for the Winter and Spring. Alert for parents with first time high school players: Maryland private high school lacrosse has its fair share of nepotism. Some A Conference schools turn a blind eye to blatant "daddy ball" and/or nepotistic politics while others don't have this issue. Caveat emptor and hope your son is not competing against the coach's son for PT. If so, its going to be a long Spring, watching your son stand on that sideline. Trust me when I tell you, this often the proverbial "elephant in the room".


Who?? Calvert Hall has a lot of players with the same name as coach, but they seem to be good players? Who are you talking about?

Re: Boys 2022 -9th Grade Fall 2018/Summer 2019
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STM attackmen did the 18/19 swap. Crazy but that’s what the coaches want and the players are rewarded with all the accolades.
[/quote]

not true

Re: Boys 2022 -9th Grade Fall 2018/Summer 2019
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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
When you are 16 in the 9th grade and playing against kids who haven’t even gone through puberty the advantage is HUGE. Look at the early recruits in the 2020 class from Baltimore area - the bulk of them were reclassed or pre-first or both. Last summer’s UA tournament had 18s who graduated playing as 19s because they were doing a PG year. In what other sport is gaming the system such commonplace?


Hmm. Let's see. Basketball, Football, Soccer,.....

Hilarious.. Soccer is very strict about age in classifying at single year with actual cards verifying age. ALL elite programs are like this including ALL professional team farm systems, They have do the best at keeping players going against players within an age bracket. Largest sport in world

Football has the occasional holdback to get bigger but many elite athletes are on age, Go look at any recruiting sheet on top football players ( if you have access) ALL put age on the sheet. Limited over age players. Lacrosse all put grade. LOL

Basketball?? BB did the grade thing for short while and it was a disaster. AAU is by age except in certain places. You think it is bad here ..BB went nuts with holdbacks and dialed it back to age.


Football has a ridiculous number of holdbacks. The percentage at top private schools for football is at least equal to lacrosse. Basketball has many as well. No clue about soccer but you saying football has limited holdbacks calls into question anything else you say.

Re: Boys 2022 -9th Grade Fall 2018/Summer 2019
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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
When you are 16 in the 9th grade and playing against kids who haven’t even gone through puberty the advantage is HUGE. Look at the early recruits in the 2020 class from Baltimore area - the bulk of them were reclassed or pre-first or both. Last summer’s UA tournament had 18s who graduated playing as 19s because they were doing a PG year. In what other sport is gaming the system such commonplace?


Hmm. Let's see. Basketball, Football, Soccer,.....

Hilarious.. Soccer is very strict about age in classifying at single year with actual cards verifying age. ALL elite programs are like this including ALL professional team farm systems, They have do the best at keeping players going against players within an age bracket. Largest sport in world

Football has the occasional holdback to get bigger but many elite athletes are on age, Go look at any recruiting sheet on top football players ( if you have access) ALL put age on the sheet. Limited over age players. Lacrosse all put grade. LOL

Basketball?? BB did the grade thing for short while and it was a disaster. AAU is by age except in certain places. You think it is bad here ..BB went nuts with holdbacks and dialed it back to age.


Football has a ridiculous number of holdbacks. The percentage at top private schools for football is at least equal to lacrosse. Basketball has many as well. No clue about soccer but you saying football has limited holdbacks calls into question anything else you say.


Agreed. The best QB in the area is a 2021 at Gonzaga. He's too old to finish school there.

Re: Boys 2022 -9th Grade Fall 2018/Summer 2019
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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Club ball is almost in its dormant stages for the Winter and Spring. Alert for parents with first time high school players: Maryland private high school lacrosse has its fair share of nepotism. Some A Conference schools turn a blind eye to blatant "daddy ball" and/or nepotistic politics while others don't have this issue. Caveat emptor and hope your son is not competing against the coach's son for PT. If so, its going to be a long Spring, watching your son stand on that sideline. Trust me when I tell you, this often the proverbial "elephant in the room".


Who?? Calvert Hall has a lot of players with the same name as coach, but they seem to be good players? Who are you talking about?


The bad part is that the Calvert Hall coach recruits kids who are better than those that have his last name and then keeps them on the bench so other schools won't get them. He still play the kids with his last name before the others.

Re: Boys 2022 -9th Grade Fall 2018/Summer 2019
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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous



Actually, somebody, (probably an "API dad") was poking fun at Hawks for losing. The follow up comment about "RR parents crying about the fowl, forcing the refs to throw flags and being soft," is probably what kicked off the donut comment, but both comments were wrong. The reality is that It was a blatant foul. Parents on EVERY team call those out, especially when a player is down on the field as a result. There were several helmet to helmet hits in the game. Hawks were getting flustered in the second half and getting physical and chippy. It happens. RR played through it and did what they needed to do. All the kids and coaches lined up and shook hands after the game with no hard feelings until BOTC. There is a shocker! As for the other antagonistic comments regarding RR "style of play and holdbacks", you are clearly just deflecting or inviting more comments and its not even remotely close by comparison. Last year, over half the RR players couldn't even jump off a springboard to hit a Hawk in the helmet. You have had the biggest team in 2022 club lacrosse for years until last Spring. During that time RR and other teams have had maybe 3-4 kids total who would be considered an average size player on the Hawks roster? The size advantage has almost completely diminished since last Spring. Learn how to lose gracefully like others did before you.


^^^



The Hawks coaches were overheard telling their team to be tougher and hit the Roughriders harder since it was apparent that their skills weren't getting the job done and they would have to result to being thugs to win.

Re: Boys 2022 -9th Grade Fall 2018/Summer 2019
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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous



Actually, somebody, (probably an "API dad") was poking fun at Hawks for losing. The follow up comment about "RR parents crying about the fowl, forcing the refs to throw flags and being soft," is probably what kicked off the donut comment, but both comments were wrong. The reality is that It was a blatant foul. Parents on EVERY team call those out, especially when a player is down on the field as a result. There were several helmet to helmet hits in the game. Hawks were getting flustered in the second half and getting physical and chippy. It happens. RR played through it and did what they needed to do. All the kids and coaches lined up and shook hands after the game with no hard feelings until BOTC. There is a shocker! As for the other antagonistic comments regarding RR "style of play and holdbacks", you are clearly just deflecting or inviting more comments and its not even remotely close by comparison. Last year, over half the RR players couldn't even jump off a springboard to hit a Hawk in the helmet. You have had the biggest team in 2022 club lacrosse for years until last Spring. During that time RR and other teams have had maybe 3-4 kids total who would be considered an average size player on the Hawks roster? The size advantage has almost completely diminished since last Spring. Learn how to lose gracefully like others did before you.


^^^



The Hawks coaches were overheard telling their team to be tougher and hit the Roughriders harder since it was apparent that their skills weren't getting the job done and they would have to result to being thugs to win.

Sounds legit

Re: Boys 2022 -9th Grade Fall 2018/Summer 2019
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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous



Actually, somebody, (probably an "API dad") was poking fun at Hawks for losing. The follow up comment about "RR parents crying about the fowl, forcing the refs to throw flags and being soft," is probably what kicked off the donut comment, but both comments were wrong. The reality is that It was a blatant foul. Parents on EVERY team call those out, especially when a player is down on the field as a result. There were several helmet to helmet hits in the game. Hawks were getting flustered in the second half and getting physical and chippy. It happens. RR played through it and did what they needed to do. All the kids and coaches lined up and shook hands after the game with no hard feelings until BOTC. There is a shocker! As for the other antagonistic comments regarding RR "style of play and holdbacks", you are clearly just deflecting or inviting more comments and its not even remotely close by comparison. Last year, over half the RR players couldn't even jump off a springboard to hit a Hawk in the helmet. You have had the biggest team in 2022 club lacrosse for years until last Spring. During that time RR and other teams have had maybe 3-4 kids total who would be considered an average size player on the Hawks roster? The size advantage has almost completely diminished since last Spring. Learn how to lose gracefully like others did before you.


^^^



The Hawks coaches were overheard telling their team to be tougher and hit the Roughriders harder since it was apparent that their skills weren't getting the job done and they would have to result to being thugs to win.

Sounds legit



Thug Life !

Re: Boys 2022 -9th Grade Fall 2018/Summer 2019
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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous



Actually, somebody, (probably an "API dad") was poking fun at Hawks for losing. The follow up comment about "RR parents crying about the fowl, forcing the refs to throw flags and being soft," is probably what kicked off the donut comment, but both comments were wrong. The reality is that It was a blatant foul. Parents on EVERY team call those out, especially when a player is down on the field as a result. There were several helmet to helmet hits in the game. Hawks were getting flustered in the second half and getting physical and chippy. It happens. RR played through it and did what they needed to do. All the kids and coaches lined up and shook hands after the game with no hard feelings until BOTC. There is a shocker! As for the other antagonistic comments regarding RR "style of play and holdbacks", you are clearly just deflecting or inviting more comments and its not even remotely close by comparison. Last year, over half the RR players couldn't even jump off a springboard to hit a Hawk in the helmet. You have had the biggest team in 2022 club lacrosse for years until last Spring. During that time RR and other teams have had maybe 3-4 kids total who would be considered an average size player on the Hawks roster? The size advantage has almost completely diminished since last Spring. Learn how to lose gracefully like others did before you.


^^^



The Hawks coaches were overheard telling their team to be tougher and hit the Roughriders harder since it was apparent that their skills weren't getting the job done and they would have to result to being thugs to win.

Sounds legit



Thug Life !


You guys are still letting the Hawks live in your minds. The Trump Family of lacrosse.

Re: Boys 2022 -9th Grade Fall 2018/Summer 2019
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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous



Actually, somebody, (probably an "API dad") was poking fun at Hawks for losing. The follow up comment about "RR parents crying about the fowl, forcing the refs to throw flags and being soft," is probably what kicked off the donut comment, but both comments were wrong. The reality is that It was a blatant foul. Parents on EVERY team call those out, especially when a player is down on the field as a result. There were several helmet to helmet hits in the game. Hawks were getting flustered in the second half and getting physical and chippy. It happens. RR played through it and did what they needed to do. All the kids and coaches lined up and shook hands after the game with no hard feelings until BOTC. There is a shocker! As for the other antagonistic comments regarding RR "style of play and holdbacks", you are clearly just deflecting or inviting more comments and its not even remotely close by comparison. Last year, over half the RR players couldn't even jump off a springboard to hit a Hawk in the helmet. You have had the biggest team in 2022 club lacrosse for years until last Spring. During that time RR and other teams have had maybe 3-4 kids total who would be considered an average size player on the Hawks roster? The size advantage has almost completely diminished since last Spring. Learn how to lose gracefully like others did before you.


^^^



The Hawks coaches were overheard telling their team to be tougher and hit the Roughriders harder since it was apparent that their skills weren't getting the job done and they would have to result to being thugs to win.

Sounds legit


So legit. I heard it too. They called the defensive call “KILL-KILL”.

Dumb right? Yup


You guys are notIntelligent wink

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
When you are 16 in the 9th grade and playing against kids who haven’t even gone through puberty the advantage is HUGE. Look at the early recruits in the 2020 class from Baltimore area - the bulk of them were reclassed or pre-first or both. Last summer’s UA tournament had 18s who graduated playing as 19s because they were doing a PG year. In what other sport is gaming the system such commonplace?


Hmm. Let's see. Basketball, Football, Soccer,.....

Hilarious.. Soccer is very strict about age in classifying at single year with actual cards verifying age. ALL elite programs are like this including ALL professional team farm systems, They have do the best at keeping players going against players within an age bracket. Largest sport in world

Football has the occasional holdback to get bigger but many elite athletes are on age, Go look at any recruiting sheet on top football players ( if you have access) ALL put age on the sheet. Limited over age players. Lacrosse all put grade. LOL

Basketball?? BB did the grade thing for short while and it was a disaster. AAU is by age except in certain places. You think it is bad here ..BB went nuts with holdbacks and dialed it back to age.


Football has a ridiculous number of holdbacks. The percentage at top private schools for football is at least equal to lacrosse. Basketball has many as well. No clue about soccer but you saying football has limited holdbacks calls into question anything else you say.


Agreed. The best QB in the area is a 2021 at Gonzaga. He's too old to finish school there.


You are way to centric to Maryland/DC Private schools while talking about Football, .. Go to Texas, FL, CA and other states, Once you get out of your little world of Private schools the majority of Football players ( of course not all ) are on age athletes. True athletes dont need a extra year to be competitive in HS, do some hold back, of course,,,but not the majority of top players in High school . Sorry to burst your little private school bubble, You might want to question your question. LOL

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
When you are 16 in the 9th grade and playing against kids who haven’t even gone through puberty the advantage is HUGE. Look at the early recruits in the 2020 class from Baltimore area - the bulk of them were reclassed or pre-first or both. Last summer’s UA tournament had 18s who graduated playing as 19s because they were doing a PG year. In what other sport is gaming the system such commonplace?


Hmm. Let's see. Basketball, Football, Soccer,.....

Hilarious.. Soccer is very strict about age in classifying at single year with actual cards verifying age. ALL elite programs are like this including ALL professional team farm systems, They have do the best at keeping players going against players within an age bracket. Largest sport in world

Football has the occasional holdback to get bigger but many elite athletes are on age, Go look at any recruiting sheet on top football players ( if you have access) ALL put age on the sheet. Limited over age players. Lacrosse all put grade. LOL

Basketball?? BB did the grade thing for short while and it was a disaster. AAU is by age except in certain places. You think it is bad here ..BB went nuts with holdbacks and dialed it back to age.


Football has a ridiculous number of holdbacks. The percentage at top private schools for football is at least equal to lacrosse. Basketball has many as well. No clue about soccer but you saying football has limited holdbacks calls into question anything else you say.


Agreed. The best QB in the area is a 2021 at Gonzaga. He's too old to finish school there.


You are way to centric to Maryland/DC Private schools while talking about Football, .. Go to Texas, FL, CA and other states, Once you get out of your little world of Private schools the majority of Football players ( of course not all ) are on age athletes. True athletes dont need a extra year to be competitive in HS, do some hold back, of course,,,but not the majority of top players in High school . Sorry to burst your little private school bubble, You might want to question your question. LOL





Well the majority of lacrosse players are on age too. So not sure what your point is. I know from the dummies on this site that it may seem like every kid at BL, McD, CHC, Gilman, etc are a year or two older, it's just not the case.

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I'm curious to know people's opinions on how the kids in Maryland stack up nationally. I see a lot of FCA, Madlax and Crabs kids at the older grades committing to high level schools. Can we expect that the kids who are stand outs among the local clubs to do the same? My observation through the last year is that there seems to be a ton of talent these days nationally, perhaps more so than even just a few years ago.

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I'm curious to know people's opinions on how the kids in Maryland stack up nationally. I see a lot of FCA, Madlax and Crabs kids at the older grades committing to high level schools. Can we expect that the kids who are stand outs among the local clubs to do the same? My observation through the last year is that there seems to be a ton of talent these days nationally, perhaps more so than even just a few years ago.

Yes you are correct. The players are coming from more states then ever. But if you notice some of them are moving to a hot bed Private school to show they can play at the top level. So the post will say boy X from NC but keep reading it says he played high school lacrosse in MD or NY.

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I'm curious to know people's opinions on how the kids in Maryland stack up nationally. I see a lot of FCA, Madlax and Crabs kids at the older grades committing to high level schools. Can we expect that the kids who are stand outs among the local clubs to do the same? My observation through the last year is that there seems to be a ton of talent these days nationally, perhaps more so than even just a few years ago.


It's definitely changing. It used to be the top 15 kids or so from Crabs may go high level D1. That's probably closer to 7 or 8 now. Same has happened on the girls side. The game has grown so much that there is a lot of talent elsewhere. Not to mention the number of clubs have spread out the talent. FCA has only existed for about 5 years for instance.

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I'm curious to know people's opinions on how the kids in Maryland stack up nationally. I see a lot of FCA, Madlax and Crabs kids at the older grades committing to high level schools. Can we expect that the kids who are stand outs among the local clubs to do the same? My observation through the last year is that there seems to be a ton of talent these days nationally, perhaps more so than even just a few years ago.


Yes, local players make up a much smaller percentage of the top 10-20 starting rosters or D1 AA lists than in the past. Athletes are bigger and faster and the game is less parochial than before. You will see more Mid-Atlantic (MIAA) kids on a percentage basis at the starting keeper and attack positions than midfield and D as the the latter positions are dominated by the tall and fast athletes less dependent on lax IQ and years of experience.

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When you are 16 in the 9th grade and playing against kids who haven’t even gone through puberty the advantage is HUGE. Look at the early recruits in the 2020 class from Baltimore area - the bulk of them were reclassed or pre-first or both. Last summer’s UA tournament had 18s who graduated playing as 19s because they were doing a PG year. In what other sport is gaming the system such commonplace?

Hmm. Let's see. Basketball, Football, Soccer,.....
Hilarious.. Soccer is very strict about age in classifying at single year with actual cards verifying age. ALL elite programs are like this including ALL professional team farm systems, They have do the best at keeping players going against players within an age bracket. Largest sport in world

Football has the occasional holdback to get bigger but many elite athletes are on age, Go look at any recruiting sheet on top football players ( if you have access) ALL put age on the sheet. Limited over age players. Lacrosse all put grade. LOL

Basketball?? BB did the grade thing for short while and it was a disaster. AAU is by age except in certain places. You think it is bad here ..BB went nuts with holdbacks and dialed it back to age.

Football has a ridiculous number of holdbacks. The percentage at top private schools for football is at least equal to lacrosse. Basketball has many as well. No clue about soccer but you saying football has limited holdbacks calls into question anything else you say.

Agreed. The best QB in the area is a 2021 at Gonzaga. He's too old to finish school there.


You are way to centric to Maryland/DC Private schools while talking about Football, .. Go to Texas, FL, CA and other states, Once you get out of your little world of Private schools the majority of Football players ( of course not all ) are on age athletes. True athletes dont need a extra year to be competitive in HS, do some hold back, of course,,,but not the majority of top players in High school . Sorry to burst your little private school bubble, You might want to question your question. LOL



Well the majority of lacrosse players are on age too. So not sure what your point is. I know from the dummies on this site that it may seem like every kid at BL, McD, CHC, Gilman, etc are a year or two older, it's just not the case.


We are talking about top players in MD. As a percentage of top lacrosse players.... MD and its world of private schools are over the top with holdbacks, not even close to any other state besides pockets of NE Private school areas.

As far as every other child at these schools ?? Probably not, but the smaller ones with grades 1-12 are loaded such as McD and BL, CHC student body doesn't have as many as it is only 9-12.

Look at youth lacrosse. Majority of holdbacks are either in private or going after being held back. Years ago even in McD, BL, etc there were only so many holdbacks. You can claim and spin any way you want, but there has been an explosion in holdbacks/prefirst/reclass in last 5 -10 years and it is clear to see.

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
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When you are 16 in the 9th grade and playing against kids who haven’t even gone through puberty the advantage is HUGE. Look at the early recruits in the 2020 class from Baltimore area - the bulk of them were reclassed or pre-first or both. Last summer’s UA tournament had 18s who graduated playing as 19s because they were doing a PG year. In what other sport is gaming the system such commonplace?

Hmm. Let's see. Basketball, Football, Soccer,.....
Hilarious.. Soccer is very strict about age in classifying at single year with actual cards verifying age. ALL elite programs are like this including ALL professional team farm systems, They have do the best at keeping players going against players within an age bracket. Largest sport in world

Football has the occasional holdback to get bigger but many elite athletes are on age, Go look at any recruiting sheet on top football players ( if you have access) ALL put age on the sheet. Limited over age players. Lacrosse all put grade. LOL

Basketball?? BB did the grade thing for short while and it was a disaster. AAU is by age except in certain places. You think it is bad here ..BB went nuts with holdbacks and dialed it back to age.

Football has a ridiculous number of holdbacks. The percentage at top private schools for football is at least equal to lacrosse. Basketball has many as well. No clue about soccer but you saying football has limited holdbacks calls into question anything else you say.

Agreed. The best QB in the area is a 2021 at Gonzaga. He's too old to finish school there.


You are way to centric to Maryland/DC Private schools while talking about Football, .. Go to Texas, FL, CA and other states, Once you get out of your little world of Private schools the majority of Football players ( of course not all ) are on age athletes. True athletes dont need a extra year to be competitive in HS, do some hold back, of course,,,but not the majority of top players in High school . Sorry to burst your little private school bubble, You might want to question your question. LOL



Well the majority of lacrosse players are on age too. So not sure what your point is. I know from the dummies on this site that it may seem like every kid at BL, McD, CHC, Gilman, etc are a year or two older, it's just not the case.


We are talking about top players in MD. As a percentage of top lacrosse players.... MD and its world of private schools are over the top with holdbacks, not even close to any other state besides pockets of NE Private school areas.

As far as every other child at these schools ?? Probably not, but the smaller ones with grades 1-12 are loaded such as McD and BL, CHC student body doesn't have as many as it is only 9-12.

Look at youth lacrosse. Majority of holdbacks are either in private or going after being held back. Years ago even in McD, BL, etc there were only so many holdbacks. You can claim and spin any way you want, but there has been an explosion in holdbacks/prefirst/reclass in last 5 -10 years and it is clear to see.



Looking at the Tewaaraton Watch list from last year.
8 kids from Long Island, 8 kids from Maryland, and 8 kids from Ontario.
6 kids from Philly
4 kids from Connecticut
3 kids from New Jersey
2 kids from Callifornia, 2 from Massachusettes, and 2 from BC.

More kids from other areas are playing, but the top kids are still from the hotbeds.

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
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Originally Posted by Anonymous
When you are 16 in the 9th grade and playing against kids who haven’t even gone through puberty the advantage is HUGE. Look at the early recruits in the 2020 class from Baltimore area - the bulk of them were reclassed or pre-first or both. Last summer’s UA tournament had 18s who graduated playing as 19s because they were doing a PG year. In what other sport is gaming the system such commonplace?

Hmm. Let's see. Basketball, Football, Soccer,.....
Hilarious.. Soccer is very strict about age in classifying at single year with actual cards verifying age. ALL elite programs are like this including ALL professional team farm systems, They have do the best at keeping players going against players within an age bracket. Largest sport in world

Football has the occasional holdback to get bigger but many elite athletes are on age, Go look at any recruiting sheet on top football players ( if you have access) ALL put age on the sheet. Limited over age players. Lacrosse all put grade. LOL

Basketball?? BB did the grade thing for short while and it was a disaster. AAU is by age except in certain places. You think it is bad here ..BB went nuts with holdbacks and dialed it back to age.

Football has a ridiculous number of holdbacks. The percentage at top private schools for football is at least equal to lacrosse. Basketball has many as well. No clue about soccer but you saying football has limited holdbacks calls into question anything else you say.

Agreed. The best QB in the area is a 2021 at Gonzaga. He's too old to finish school there.


You are way to centric to Maryland/DC Private schools while talking about Football, .. Go to Texas, FL, CA and other states, Once you get out of your little world of Private schools the majority of Football players ( of course not all ) are on age athletes. True athletes dont need a extra year to be competitive in HS, do some hold back, of course,,,but not the majority of top players in High school . Sorry to burst your little private school bubble, You might want to question your question. LOL



Well the majority of lacrosse players are on age too. So not sure what your point is. I know from the dummies on this site that it may seem like every kid at BL, McD, CHC, Gilman, etc are a year or two older, it's just not the case.


We are talking about top players in MD. As a percentage of top lacrosse players.... MD and its world of private schools are over the top with holdbacks, not even close to any other state besides pockets of NE Private school areas.

As far as every other child at these schools ?? Probably not, but the smaller ones with grades 1-12 are loaded such as McD and BL, CHC student body doesn't have as many as it is only 9-12.

Look at youth lacrosse. Majority of holdbacks are either in private or going after being held back. Years ago even in McD, BL, etc there were only so many holdbacks. You can claim and spin any way you want, but there has been an explosion in holdbacks/prefirst/reclass in last 5 -10 years and it is clear to see.



Looking at the Tewaaraton Watch list from last year.
8 kids from Long Island, 8 kids from Maryland, and 8 kids from Ontario.
6 kids from Philly
4 kids from Connecticut
3 kids from New Jersey
2 kids from Callifornia, 2 from Massachusettes, and 2 from BC.

More kids from other areas are playing, but the top kids are still from the hotbeds.


I think this helps prove the Lacrosse IQ along with playing top competition is what puts the best on top. They are all great athletes from all the states but knowing the game and developing your game along side 19 other really good smart players during games is what makes a great lacrosse player. But I think this is true for all team sports

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I'm curious to know people's opinions on how the kids in Maryland stack up nationally. I see a lot of FCA, Madlax and Crabs kids at the older grades committing to high level schools. Can we expect that the kids who are stand outs among the local clubs to do the same? My observation through the last year is that there seems to be a ton of talent these days nationally, perhaps more so than even just a few years ago.


Yes, local players make up a much smaller percentage of the top 10-20 starting rosters or D1 AA lists than in the past. Athletes are bigger and faster and the game is less parochial than before. You will see more Mid-Atlantic (MIAA) kids on a percentage basis at the starting keeper and attack positions than midfield and D as the the latter positions are dominated by the tall and fast athletes less dependent on lax IQ and years of experience.


It also doesn’t help that these days a number of club coaches are more about their ‘brand’ then the kids they coach. Look at 91MD. That guy never misses a chance to promote himself. It’s all about look at me when I played 20 years ago instead of look at the kids I coach.

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
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Originally Posted by Anonymous
I'm curious to know people's opinions on how the kids in Maryland stack up nationally. I see a lot of FCA, Madlax and Crabs kids at the older grades committing to high level schools. Can we expect that the kids who are stand outs among the local clubs to do the same? My observation through the last year is that there seems to be a ton of talent these days nationally, perhaps more so than even just a few years ago.


Yes, local players make up a much smaller percentage of the top 10-20 starting rosters or D1 AA lists than in the past. Athletes are bigger and faster and the game is less parochial than before. You will see more Mid-Atlantic (MIAA) kids on a percentage basis at the starting keeper and attack positions than midfield and D as the the latter positions are dominated by the tall and fast athletes less dependent on lax IQ and years of experience.


It also doesn’t help that these days a number of club coaches are more about their ‘brand’ then the kids they coach. Look at 91MD. That guy never misses a chance to promote himself. It’s all about look at me when I played 20 years ago instead of look at the kids I coach.

I'm not sure what that has to do with the topic being discussed. That coach got his players into some elite high schools where they'll continue to grow their game and lax IQ. Some of these other clubs do very little to promote their players. I'll take a narcissistic donk who works for his players any day.

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
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Originally Posted by Anonymous
I'm curious to know people's opinions on how the kids in Maryland stack up nationally. I see a lot of FCA, Madlax and Crabs kids at the older grades committing to high level schools. Can we expect that the kids who are stand outs among the local clubs to do the same? My observation through the last year is that there seems to be a ton of talent these days nationally, perhaps more so than even just a few years ago.


Yes, local players make up a much smaller percentage of the top 10-20 starting rosters or D1 AA lists than in the past. Athletes are bigger and faster and the game is less parochial than before. You will see more Mid-Atlantic (MIAA) kids on a percentage basis at the starting keeper and attack positions than midfield and D as the the latter positions are dominated by the tall and fast athletes less dependent on lax IQ and years of experience.


It also doesn’t help that these days a number of club coaches are more about their ‘brand’ then the kids they coach. Look at 91MD. That guy never misses a chance to promote himself. It’s all about look at me when I played 20 years ago instead of look at the kids I coach.

I'm not sure what that has to do with the topic being discussed. That coach got his players into some elite high schools where they'll continue to grow their game and lax IQ. Some of these other clubs do very little to promote their players. I'll take a narcissistic donk who works for his players any day.




Say what you want about the guy- He has been teaching and developing lacrosse for 25 years , way before club lacrosse and way before the racket the sport has become with clubs, tournaments , individual coaching and training. The whole look at me is exactly what he needs to do to promote his camps all over the country to families who can careless about what club he is associated with. Lacrosse is how he provides for his family. There is plenty of things we can call him and many things he lacks but his BRAND is what feeds his family and has been doing it for a long time.

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
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Originally Posted by Anonymous
I'm curious to know people's opinions on how the kids in Maryland stack up nationally. I see a lot of FCA, Madlax and Crabs kids at the older grades committing to high level schools. Can we expect that the kids who are stand outs among the local clubs to do the same? My observation through the last year is that there seems to be a ton of talent these days nationally, perhaps more so than even just a few years ago.


Yes, local players make up a much smaller percentage of the top 10-20 starting rosters or D1 AA lists than in the past. Athletes are bigger and faster and the game is less parochial than before. You will see more Mid-Atlantic (MIAA) kids on a percentage basis at the starting keeper and attack positions than midfield and D as the the latter positions are dominated by the tall and fast athletes less dependent on lax IQ and years of experience.


It also doesn’t help that these days a number of club coaches are more about their ‘brand’ then the kids they coach. Look at 91MD. That guy never misses a chance to promote himself. It’s all about look at me when I played 20 years ago instead of look at the kids I coach.

I'm not sure what that has to do with the topic being discussed. That coach got his players into some elite high schools where they'll continue to grow their game and lax IQ. Some of these other clubs do very little to promote their players. I'll take a narcissistic donk who works for his players any day.




Say what you want about the guy- He has been teaching and developing lacrosse for 25 years , way before club lacrosse and way before the racket the sport has become with clubs, tournaments , individual coaching and training. The whole look at me is exactly what he needs to do to promote his camps all over the country to families who can careless about what club he is associated with. Lacrosse is how he provides for his family. There is plenty of things we can call him and many things he lacks but his BRAND is what feeds his family and has been doing it for a long time.


While you may not like his style and approach, there are few who know the game better or love the game more than him. He's a passionate coach and aside from his tendency to "hover" over his own (this is his Achilles heal), I like the way he prepares, practices and coaches the game. Compared to many of the out of shape know nothings or email loving blowhards in the sport (everyone knows who these phonies are), this guy has played and more importantly coached successfully at the sport's highest levels.

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I'm curious to know people's opinions on how the kids in Maryland stack up nationally. I see a lot of FCA, Madlax and Crabs kids at the older grades committing to high level schools. Can we expect that the kids who are stand outs among the local clubs to do the same? My observation through the last year is that there seems to be a ton of talent these days nationally, perhaps more so than even just a few years ago.


Yes, local players make up a much smaller percentage of the top 10-20 starting rosters or D1 AA lists than in the past. Athletes are bigger and faster and the game is less parochial than before. You will see more Mid-Atlantic (MIAA) kids on a percentage basis at the starting keeper and attack positions than midfield and D as the the latter positions are dominated by the tall and fast athletes less dependent on lax IQ and years of experience.


It also doesn’t help that these days a number of club coaches are more about their ‘brand’ then the kids they coach. Look at 91MD. That guy never misses a chance to promote himself. It’s all about look at me when I played 20 years ago instead of look at the kids I coach.

I'm not sure what that has to do with the topic being discussed. That coach got his players into some elite high schools where they'll continue to grow their game and lax IQ. Some of these other clubs do very little to promote their players. I'll take a narcissistic donk who works for his players any day.




Say what you want about the guy- He has been teaching and developing lacrosse for 25 years , way before club lacrosse and way before the racket the sport has become with clubs, tournaments , individual coaching and training. The whole look at me is exactly what he needs to do to promote his camps all over the country to families who can careless about what club he is associated with. Lacrosse is how he provides for his family. There is plenty of things we can call him and many things he lacks but his BRAND is what feeds his family and has been doing it for a long time.


Thanks Mark ! Nice speech.

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
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Originally Posted by Anonymous
I'm curious to know people's opinions on how the kids in Maryland stack up nationally. I see a lot of FCA, Madlax and Crabs kids at the older grades committing to high level schools. Can we expect that the kids who are stand outs among the local clubs to do the same? My observation through the last year is that there seems to be a ton of talent these days nationally, perhaps more so than even just a few years ago.


Yes, local players make up a much smaller percentage of the top 10-20 starting rosters or D1 AA lists than in the past. Athletes are bigger and faster and the game is less parochial than before. You will see more Mid-Atlantic (MIAA) kids on a percentage basis at the starting keeper and attack positions than midfield and D as the the latter positions are dominated by the tall and fast athletes less dependent on lax IQ and years of experience.


It also doesn’t help that these days a number of club coaches are more about their ‘brand’ then the kids they coach. Look at 91MD. That guy never misses a chance to promote himself. It’s all about look at me when I played 20 years ago instead of look at the kids I coach.

I'm not sure what that has to do with the topic being discussed. That coach got his players into some elite high schools where they'll continue to grow their game and lax IQ. Some of these other clubs do very little to promote their players. I'll take a narcissistic donk who works for his players any day.




Say what you want about the guy- He has been teaching and developing lacrosse for 25 years , way before club lacrosse and way before the racket the sport has become with clubs, tournaments , individual coaching and training. The whole look at me is exactly what he needs to do to promote his camps all over the country to families who can careless about what club he is associated with. Lacrosse is how he provides for his family. There is plenty of things we can call him and many things he lacks but his BRAND is what feeds his family and has been doing it for a long time.


While you may not like his style and approach, there are few who know the game better or love the game more than him. He's a passionate coach and aside from his tendency to "hover" over his own (this is his Achilles heal), I like the way he prepares, practices and coaches the game. Compared to many of the out of shape know nothings or email loving blowhards in the sport (everyone knows who these phonies are), this guy has played and more importantly coached successfully at the sport's highest levels.

What highest level coaching are you referring to? Gilman JV?

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So if a club is great at developing players, what does it say about that club if they develop a kid who bought in to the system and did everything asked of him for 5 years, but then is cut for a hold-back who not even marginally better?

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So if a club is great at developing players, what does it say about that club if they develop a kid who bought in to the system and did everything asked of him for 5 years, but then is cut for a hold-back who not even marginally better?

Doesn’t say much.

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So if a club is great at developing players, what does it say about that club if they develop a kid who bought in to the system and did everything asked of him for 5 years, but then is cut for a hold-back who not even marginally better?



Who are these 2 players? Would love to compare as an outsider and not the players dad.

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So if a club is great at developing players, what does it say about that club if they develop a kid who bought in to the system and did everything asked of him for 5 years, but then is cut for a hold-back who not even marginally better?



It's called real life dad. Best your son learn it now in sports than later in the real world when the bills are rolling in and he's got three screaming kids at the house.

Nobody cares that your kid hung around and worked hard for 5 years or that for <insert reason> you choose to not re-class him and level his playing field. It's all about what have you done for us lately and how he stacks up to the big horse that just came on the scene. Fairness has no bearing on anything here or in real life off the field.

Groom your son for that...mental toughness, intestinal fortitude and perseverance in the face of adversity. If he has that, can roll with the punches and continue working even harder vice crumbling like a corn chip....he WILL see success...nobody will be able to deny him that.

He looks to YOU and how YOU react, what YOU say in all of this. If all you do is whine and make excuses....such will be his lot in life. Don't do it....for his sake.

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