BOTC BOTC
The UnD1sputed Showcase (Boys & Girls) in June & the Girls LI Showcase is Open for Registration on CBLaxers.com - Don't Miss Out as 88 Players Only Accepted! | Invest for Growth - ADVERTISE with us!
BOTC GIRLS BOTC BOY BACK OF THE CAGE
BOTC GIRLS BOTC BOY MOST RECENT POSTS
Girls High School
by Anonymous -
Boys High School
by Anonymous -
BOTC GIRLS BOTC BOY Forum Statistics
Forums20
Topics3,814
Posts388,053
Members2,610
Most Online62,980
Feb 6th, 2020
BOTC GIRLS BOTC BOY FOLLOW US ON TWITTER
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Rate Thread
Page 48 of 55 1 2 46 47 48 49 50 54 55
Re: Boys 2020 Fall 2014/Summer 2015
A
Anonymous
Unregistered
Anonymous
Unregistered
A
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Of the LI teams who got better this year?


Crush and Legacy, Express got weaker, all other teams can't compete with the top 3.



Crush - always improving and by far still the best
Legacy - significantly better
Express Terps - status quo
fl$ - significantly better
Express 2 - status quo
True Blue - status quo
Igloo - first year...did great

BOTC GIRLS BOTC BOY BACK OF THE CAGE SPONSORS

Re: Boys 2020 Fall 2014/Summer 2015
A
Anonymous
Unregistered
Anonymous
Unregistered
A
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Of the LI teams who got better this year?


Crush and Legacy, Express got weaker, all other teams can't compete with the top 3.


Must be a legacy dad who's dying to see them ranked higher

Re: Boys 2020 Fall 2014/Summer 2015
A
Anonymous
Unregistered
Anonymous
Unregistered
A
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Here is the official top 10: Crush, Crabs, Looneys, Edge, Express, Hawks, FCA, Legacy, Tomahawks, Breakers


I think that depends if Crabs uses holdbacks or not. If its without holdbacks they get a major bump down like behind breakers


Whatever. Crabs 2020 NPYLL team beat Looneys this year and went undefeated all spring. They only brought those kids down for one tournament.

Re: Boys 2020 Fall 2014/Summer 2015
A
Anonymous
Unregistered
Anonymous
Unregistered
A
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Here is the official top 10: Crush, Crabs, Looneys, Edge, Express, Hawks, FCA, Legacy, Tomahawks, Breakers


I think that depends if Crabs uses holdbacks or not. If its without holdbacks they get a major bump down like behind breakers


Whatever. Crabs 2020 NPYLL team beat Looneys this year and went undefeated all spring. They only brought those kids down for one tournament.


"only brought kids down for one tournament" is 1 to many......

Re: Boys 2020 Fall 2014/Summer 2015
A
Anonymous
Unregistered
Anonymous
Unregistered
A
Originally Posted by Anonymous
NO...same roster since March...no GUEST players.


Just a few holdbacks!

BOTC GIRLS BOTC BOY Sponsored Links
Re: Boys 2020 Fall 2014/Summer 2015
A
Anonymous
Unregistered
Anonymous
Unregistered
A
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Of the LI teams who got better this year?


Crush and Legacy, Express got weaker, all other teams can't compete with the top 3.



Crush - always improving and by far still the best
Legacy - significantly better
Express Terps - status quo
fl$ - significantly better
Express 2 - status quo
True Blue - status quo
Igloo - first year...did great


I would agree placing Legacy above Terps. Terps skated playing Legacy every chance they got because they were scared of what would happen.

Re: Boys 2020 Fall 2014/Summer 2015
A
Anonymous
Unregistered
Anonymous
Unregistered
A
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Of the LI teams who got better this year?


Crush and Legacy, Express got weaker, all other teams can't compete with the top 3.



Crush - always improving and by far still the best
Legacy - significantly better
Express Terps - status quo
fl$ - significantly better
Express 2 - status quo
True Blue - status quo
Igloo - first year...did great


I would agree placing Legacy above Terps. Terps skated playing Legacy every chance they got because they were scared of what would happen.


Viper beat Express 2, True Blue, and Igloo

Re: Boys 2020 Fall 2014/Summer 2015
A
Anonymous
Unregistered
Anonymous
Unregistered
A
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Of the LI teams who got better this year?


Crush and Legacy, Express got weaker, all other teams can't compete with the top 3.



Crush - always improving and by far still the best
Legacy - significantly better
Express Terps - status quo
fl$ - significantly better
Express 2 - status quo
True Blue - status quo
Igloo - first year...did great


I would agree placing Legacy above Terps. Terps skated playing Legacy every chance they got because they were scared of what would happen.


Legacy has never beaten Express, even when Express was missing their main faceoff player. Express lost 5-4 to Looneys, Legacy lost 9-3.

Re: Boys 2020 Fall 2014/Summer 2015
A
Anonymous
Unregistered
Anonymous
Unregistered
A
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Of the LI teams who got better this year?


Crush and Legacy, Express got weaker, all other teams can't compete with the top 3.



Crush - always improving and by far still the best
Legacy - significantly better
Express Terps - status quo
fl$ - significantly better
Express 2 - status quo
True Blue - status quo
Igloo - first year...did great


I would agree placing Legacy above Terps. Terps skated playing Legacy every chance they got because they were scared of what would happen.


Viper beat Express 2, True Blue, and Igloo


And Igloo beat Viper, Express 2

Re: Boys 2020 Fall 2014/Summer 2015
A
Anonymous
Unregistered
Anonymous
Unregistered
A
Express face off kid is there entire team I heard

BOTC GIRLS BOTC BOY Sponsored Links
Re: Boys 2020 Fall 2014/Summer 2015
A
Anonymous
Unregistered
Anonymous
Unregistered
A
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Here is the official top 10: Crush, Crabs, Looneys, Edge, Express, Hawks, FCA, Legacy, Tomahawks, Breakers


I think that depends if Crabs uses holdbacks or not. If its without holdbacks they get a major bump down like behind breakers


Whatever. Crabs 2020 NPYLL team beat Looneys this year and went undefeated all spring. They only brought those kids down for one tournament.


"only brought kids down for one tournament" is 1 to many......


They only brought kids rostered on another team down one time is a bizarre statement in of itself (and got caught this "one" time) but their regular team make ups are full of holdbacks from 8th grade on.

Re: Boys 2020 Fall 2014/Summer 2015
A
Anonymous
Unregistered
Anonymous
Unregistered
A
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Here is the official top 10: Crush, Crabs, Looneys, Edge, Express, Hawks, FCA, Legacy, Tomahawks, Breakers


I think that depends if Crabs uses holdbacks or not. If its without holdbacks they get a major bump down like behind breakers


Whatever. Crabs 2020 NPYLL team beat Looneys this year and went undefeated all spring. They only brought those kids down for one tournament.


"only brought kids down for one tournament" is 1 to many......


I agree, but don't act like the actual Crabs 2020 team wasn't good. To say they are not a top team without the 2019 kids is not a true statement.

Re: Boys 2020 Fall 2014/Summer 2015
A
Anonymous
Unregistered
Anonymous
Unregistered
A
Igloo 2021 beat viper, not 2020.

Re: Boys 2020 Fall 2014/Summer 2015
A
Anonymous
Unregistered
Anonymous
Unregistered
A
Originally Posted by Anonymous
I heard


that doesn't make sense, no one player can be the entire team. but having a great face off kid makes a tremendous amount of difference. if they could beat legacy, who is a top team, without him, then what does that say about the rest of the team?

Last edited by The Hop; . Reason: Player singled out
Re: Boys 2020 Fall 2014/Summer 2015
A
Anonymous
Unregistered
Anonymous
Unregistered
A
Originally Posted by Anonymous
I heard


that doesn't make sense, no one player can be the entire team. but having a great face off kid makes a tremendous amount of difference. if they could beat legacy, who is a top team, without him, then what does that say about the rest of the team? [/quote]

He's good, but not better than 91, Legacy they all go about 50% against each other

Last edited by The Hop; . Reason: Player singled out
Re: Boys 2020 Fall 2014/Summer 2015
A
Anonymous
Unregistered
Anonymous
Unregistered
A
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Here is the official top 10: Crush, Crabs, Looneys, Edge, Express, Hawks, FCA, Legacy, Tomahawks, Breakers


I think that depends if Crabs uses holdbacks or not. If its without holdbacks they get a major bump down like behind breakers


Whatever. Crabs 2020 NPYLL team beat Looneys this year and went undefeated all spring. They only brought those kids down for one tournament.


"only brought kids down for one tournament" is 1 to many......


I agree, but don't act like the actual Crabs 2020 team wasn't good. To say they are not a top team without the 2019 kids is not a true statement.


Can't really tell as they do not play without holdbacks anywhere else but Denver and based on that spread, there are many teams that have much lesser spreads against Crush. Their regular season team had their share of holdbacks too. A real match up will never happen so they may be a talented group of boys, but nobody will ever know how talented the real 2020 age appropriate boys are.

Re: Boys 2020 Fall 2014/Summer 2015
A
Anonymous
Unregistered
Anonymous
Unregistered
A
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Here is the official top 10: Crush, Crabs, Looneys, Edge, Express, Hawks, FCA, Legacy, Tomahawks, Breakers


I think that depends if Crabs uses holdbacks or not. If its without holdbacks they get a major bump down like behind breakers


Whatever. Crabs 2020 NPYLL team beat Looneys this year and went undefeated all spring. They only brought those kids down for one tournament.


"only brought kids down for one tournament" is 1 to many......


I agree, but don't act like the actual Crabs 2020 team wasn't good. To say they are not a top team without the 2019 kids is not a true statement.


Can't really tell as they do not play without holdbacks anywhere else but Denver and based on that spread, there are many teams that have much lesser spreads against Crush. Their regular season team had their share of holdbacks too. A real match up will never happen so they may be a talented group of boys, but nobody will ever know how talented the real 2020 age appropriate boys are.


So you think that if Crabs suddenly decided to make their policy no holdbacks that it would hurt them? Have you ever been to a Crabs tryout? There are hundreds of kids trying out. If the older kids couldn't be on team they would still have the best kids their age.

Re: Boys 2020 Fall 2014/Summer 2015
A
Anonymous
Unregistered
Anonymous
Unregistered
A
Until 91 starts there Maryland program there this year. Lmao!!

Re: Boys 2020 Fall 2014/Summer 2015
A
Anonymous
Unregistered
Anonymous
Unregistered
A
"Express face off kid is there entire team I heard"

That is an exaggeration, but without him, they are just like the 2-5 pack of LI teams...

Re: Boys 2020 Fall 2014/Summer 2015
A
Anonymous
Unregistered
Anonymous
Unregistered
A
What about laxachusetts 2020 they came in 3rd at the NLF tournament this summer. The only teams ahead of them were crabs and 91

Re: Boys 2020 Fall 2014/Summer 2015
A
Anonymous
Unregistered
Anonymous
Unregistered
A
Originally Posted by Anonymous
What about laxachusetts 2020 they came in 3rd at the NLF tournament this summer. The only teams ahead of them were crabs and 91


Speaking of holdbacks.....

Re: Boys 2020 Fall 2014/Summer 2015
A
Anonymous
Unregistered
Anonymous
Unregistered
A
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Until 91 starts there Maryland program there this year. Lmao!!


Not sure I understand what substance they are bringing to the table. Seems like more hype than anything else.

Re: Boys 2020 Fall 2014/Summer 2015
A
Anonymous
Unregistered
Anonymous
Unregistered
A
You mean double hold backs they had couple of kids no doubt should of been in 9th. One kid in particular couldn't play lax just wanted to knock kids out of the game got penalty after penalty for them when the score was out of hand and they were down. How do parents actually think there kids are kid when they are playing kids a year or 2 younger if I did that for my son he would be a stud to but most of those kids must not be that intelligent in school or lazy don't want to work hard be living off the system in no time!!!! Or when they do play against kids there own age must not be able to keep up.

Re: Boys 2020 Fall 2014/Summer 2015
A
Anonymous
Unregistered
Anonymous
Unregistered
A
They are already in the 2-5 pack you fool.. You mean without him they drop way down 5-10. Express has not upgraded in years while crush tries to upgrade year after year.

Re: Boys 2020 Fall 2014/Summer 2015
A
Anonymous
Unregistered
Anonymous
Unregistered
A
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Of the LI teams who got better this year?


Crush and Legacy, Express got weaker, all other teams can't compete with the top 3.



Crush - always improving and by far still the best
Legacy - significantly better
Express Terps - status quo
fl$ - significantly better
Express 2 - status quo
True Blue - status quo
Igloo - first year...did great


I would agree placing Legacy above Terps. Terps skated playing Legacy every chance they got because they were scared of what would happen.


I don't know why the ignorance and crap spewed as facts continues to amaze me but it still does. Terps and Legacy were scheduled to play on the Sunday at LaxFest. Did the Terps pull a Crash Davis and force a rainout to avoid Legacy? No, dumb a*s, it just rained. Terps and Legacy were both at NXT. Terps lost to Looney's by a goal in round robin and got Crush in quarterfinals instead of meeting Legacy in semifinals like Looney's did. Yup, they bowed out of the tournament earlier just to avoid Legacy. Both are excellent teams and will play a very competitive game. Could go either way. And that is the truth unlike the nonsense spouted previously.

Re: Boys 2020 Fall 2014/Summer 2015
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 648
User
*****
Offline
User
*****
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 648
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Of the LI teams who got better this year?


Crush and Legacy, Express got weaker, all other teams can't compete with the top 3.



Crush - always improving and by far still the best
Legacy - significantly better
Express Terps - status quo
fl$ - significantly better
Express 2 - status quo
True Blue - status quo
Igloo - first year...did great


I would agree placing Legacy above Terps. Terps skated playing Legacy every chance they got because they were scared of what would happen.


I don't know why the ignorance and crap spewed as facts continues to amaze me but it still does. Terps and Legacy were scheduled to play on the Sunday at LaxFest. Did the Terps pull a Crash Davis and force a rainout to avoid Legacy? No, dumb a*s, it just rained. Terps and Legacy were both at NXT. Terps lost to Looney's by a goal in round robin and got Crush in quarterfinals instead of meeting Legacy in semifinals like Looney's did. Yup, they bowed out of the tournament earlier just to avoid Legacy. Both are excellent teams and will play a very competitive game. Could go either way. And that is the truth unlike the nonsense spouted previously.


Well said.
The poster making statements pitting Legacy against Terps is a complete loser with nothing better to do. Don't buy the crap they are selling. Many parents and kids on those teams are friendly and there is a mutual respect. Only a loser would stir the pot and create Kardashian drama in youth lax.


Back of the Cage
Re: Boys 2020 Fall 2014/Summer 2015
A
Anonymous
Unregistered
Anonymous
Unregistered
A
Couldn't agree more. Wouldn't even entertain the ignorance and my son plays for legacy.

Re: Boys 2020 Fall 2014/Summer 2015
A
Anonymous
Unregistered
Anonymous
Unregistered
A
Originally Posted by Anonymous
They are already in the 2-5 pack you fool.. You mean without him they drop way down 5-10. Express has not upgraded in years while crush tries to upgrade year after year.


they beat legacy by a couple of goals without him...

Re: Boys 2020 Fall 2014/Summer 2015
A
Anonymous
Unregistered
Anonymous
Unregistered
A
When and where? How long ago heard they picked up a couple more kids. Tryouts should be good this year for the top 5 teams! Who will go and who will stay

Re: Boys 2020 Fall 2014/Summer 2015
A
Anonymous
Unregistered
Anonymous
Unregistered
A
Overall Rankings based on seeing all these teams play this year at least 1 time - 4 through 8 are interchangible at any given time

Crush
Express Terps
Legacy
fl$
Viper
Express 2
True Blue
Igloo

Re: Boys 2020 Fall 2014/Summer 2015
A
Anonymous
Unregistered
Anonymous
Unregistered
A
You mean Long Island rankings? Vipers beat fl$.

Re: Boys 2020 Fall 2014/Summer 2015
A
Anonymous
Unregistered
Anonymous
Unregistered
A
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Until 91 starts there Maryland program there this year. Lmao!!


Not sure I understand what substance they are bringing to the table. Seems like more hype than anything else.


If the core of the 2020 Breakers AA team is moving over as is rumored and they add even just a few kids from other top clubs combined with an enhanced top notch coaching staff that T91 will bring to the table, the 2020 will be highly competitive. That team is already competitive and could be even more so with the right coaching and additions.

Re: Boys 2020 Fall 2014/Summer 2015
A
Anonymous
Unregistered
Anonymous
Unregistered
A
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Until 91 starts there Maryland program there this year. Lmao!!


Not sure I understand what substance they are bringing to the table. Seems like more hype than anything else.


If the core of the 2020 Breakers AA team is moving over as is rumored and they add even just a few kids from other top clubs combined with an enhanced top notch coaching staff that T91 will bring to the table, the 2020 will be highly competitive. That team is already competitive and could be even more so with the right coaching and additions.

Re: Boys 2020 Fall 2014/Summer 2015
A
Anonymous
Unregistered
Anonymous
Unregistered
A
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Until 91 starts there Maryland program there this year. Lmao!!


Not sure I understand what substance they are bringing to the table. Seems like more hype than anything else.


If the core of the 2020 Breakers AA team is moving over as is rumored and they add even just a few kids from other top clubs combined with an enhanced top notch coaching staff that T91 will bring to the table, the 2020 will be highly competitive. That team is already competitive and could be even more so with the right coaching and additions.


the rumor is the coaches are moving over along with players. if correct what is the difference other than new helmets and unis? MM was with breakers as director player/coach development, right? the special sauce that crush and other super teams up in LI is an uncommon commitment by kids & parents combined with the most talented kids in the area and extremely dedicated and professional coaches. Would kids, parents and coaches commit to 6-8+ hours of practice a week basically all year long plus tournaments every weekend in june/july many involving significant travel? If not T91 MD wil be just another club in MD. Some good years, some ok. According to website $1850 for just summer season. That would make it one of the most expensive in MD. If fall,spring, winter are add-on fees than make it the most expensive by a wide margin...

Re: Boys 2020 Fall 2014/Summer 2015
A
Anonymous
Unregistered
Anonymous
Unregistered
A
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Until 91 starts there Maryland program there this year. Lmao!!


Not sure I understand what substance they are bringing to the table. Seems like more hype than anything else.


If the core of the 2020 Breakers AA team is moving over as is rumored and they add even just a few kids from other top clubs combined with an enhanced top notch coaching staff that T91 will bring to the table, the 2020 will be highly competitive. That team is already competitive and could be even more so with the right coaching and additions.


the rumor is the coaches are moving over along with players. if correct what is the difference other than new helmets and unis? MM was with breakers as director player/coach development, right? the special sauce that crush and other super teams up in LI is an uncommon commitment by kids & parents combined with the most talented kids in the area and extremely dedicated and professional coaches. Would kids, parents and coaches commit to 6-8+ hours of practice a week basically all year long plus tournaments every weekend in june/july many involving significant travel? If not T91 MD wil be just another club in MD. Some good years, some ok. According to website $1850 for just summer season. That would make it one of the most expensive in MD. If fall,spring, winter are add-on fees than make it the most expensive by a wide margin...


Head coach is moving over but each team will also have an offensive and defensive coach something Breakers did not allow them. Not sure about the fees-Breakers is one of the most expensive clubs in the area. Nobody said more competitive than Crush who do make the above commitment -the point was a very competitive team is moving and they will add more good players like good teams can do every year so the T91 Maryland 2020 is bound to be as competitive as they were as Breakers this year and likely more competitive. Sounds like MM is leaving since he did not get to do what he wanted to do at Breakers in terms of development so hopefully as Director of T91 Maryland with the T91 brand as backing, he will be able to do the programming he wanted to do at Breakers last year.

Re: Boys 2020 Fall 2014/Summer 2015
A
Anonymous
Unregistered
Anonymous
Unregistered
A
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Until 91 starts there Maryland program there this year. Lmao!!


Not sure I understand what substance they are bringing to the table. Seems like more hype than anything else.


If the core of the 2020 Breakers AA team is moving over as is rumored and they add even just a few kids from other top clubs combined with an enhanced top notch coaching staff that T91 will bring to the table, the 2020 will be highly competitive. That team is already competitive and could be even more so with the right coaching and additions.


the rumor is the coaches are moving over along with players. if correct what is the difference other than new helmets and unis? MM was with breakers as director player/coach development, right? the special sauce that crush and other super teams up in LI is an uncommon commitment by kids & parents combined with the most talented kids in the area and extremely dedicated and professional coaches. Would kids, parents and coaches commit to 6-8+ hours of practice a week basically all year long plus tournaments every weekend in june/july many involving significant travel? If not T91 MD wil be just another club in MD. Some good years, some ok. According to website $1850 for just summer season. That would make it one of the most expensive in MD. If fall,spring, winter are add-on fees than make it the most expensive by a wide margin...


Head coach is moving over but each team will also have an offensive and defensive coach something Breakers did not allow them. Not sure about the fees-Breakers is one of the most expensive clubs in the area. Nobody said more competitive than Crush who do make the above commitment -the point was a very competitive team is moving and they will add more good players like good teams can do every year so the T91 Maryland 2020 is bound to be as competitive as they were as Breakers this year and likely more competitive. Sounds like MM is leaving since he did not get to do what he wanted to do at Breakers in terms of development so hopefully as Director of T91 Maryland with the T91 brand as backing, he will be able to do the programming he wanted to do at Breakers last year.



So Breakers with an offense and defense coach. Wow. Game changer

Re: Boys 2020 Fall 2014/Summer 2015
A
Anonymous
Unregistered
Anonymous
Unregistered
A
Hawks already has all of these things, including off-season skill sessions. More bang for your buck, for sure.

Re: Boys 2020 Fall 2014/Summer 2015
A
Anonymous
Unregistered
Anonymous
Unregistered
A
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Hawks already has all of these things, including off-season skill sessions. More bang for your buck, for sure.


Same with FCA and crabs

Re: Boys 2020 Fall 2014/Summer 2015
A
Anonymous
Unregistered
Anonymous
Unregistered
A
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Hawks already has all of these things, including off-season skill sessions. More bang for your buck, for sure.


That's great, if you live in Annapolis.

Re: Boys 2020 Fall 2014/Summer 2015
A
Anonymous
Unregistered
Anonymous
Unregistered
A
Originally Posted by Anonymous
You mean Long Island rankings? Vipers beat fl$.


They have never played head to head

Page 48 of 55 1 2 46 47 48 49 50 54 55

Link Copied to Clipboard












Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.4