BOTC - US Lacrosse Community Forum Forums NORTHEAST LACROSSE BOTC MAIN FORUM (LI, CT, WC) Girls 2029-7th Grade Fall 2023/Summer 2024

I heard there is a AAAAAA Tournament in Kazakhstan next weekend. Start up a 91 International and triple roster those little warriors.

But in all seriousness, how did they do against Urban Elite? They were the only team there that has ever held a stick before.

genuine question- what is the issue with double rostering. In soccer, it’s difficult to be double rostered when your kid plays on another team in the same league since you need a card/pass for that league (think LOL- I think LOL allows u to play as a guest though). Kids still do the double roster thing but play for Teams that play in other leagues like EDP.

For lacrosse, is it regulated in some way or is it just looked down on. I think I remember signing something like my kid won’t play on another club team.

Would be interesting to get people’s thoughts.

Team 91 considers it the same since they own all the teams. National teams on the boys level is very common. It’s just starting on the girls level. As long as you are playing for you “club” I don’t see why it is a big deal. You can’t play on your national team and regular team in same tournament.

You can double roster or join two or three club teams if you have the financial means to do so. However if both teams are entered in the same tournament, you can only play for one.
Top girls from an area that is not big on lax will join teams like YJ, M&D, Steps, etc. For instance most recently there were sisters from MN they played for YJ and the older one still played for MN lacrosse [Censored].

That is great, make fun of 12 year old girls that are great kids and highly successful at the sport. This has become non stop. Constant talk about a team that is more successful than your team.The constant foul words will NEVER take away from the hard work and accomplishments these girls put forth. Your obsession and jealousy is very apparent!
Maybe if you focused more on your own team than someone else's you may find more success.
Enough.

Edit.. meant to say LOL

Game is growing especially on the girls side in the south and west coast. Pretty short sighted to say that Urban Elite is the only team with lax experience at this tournament

Let's reach for the stars and look for anyway possible to bring 91 down. Jealous much?

They tied urban elite.

This is inaccurate. This year, season-long double rostering is not allowed. It is explicitly a violation for the Golden 16 ranking and implicitly a violation for the overall rankings on USCL website. You cannot play on two teams if you wish to qualify for USCL rankings. For individual tournaments, you are in violation of their event rules if you double roster at the event. I would post links to this, but not sure if it's allowed on this site. You can find it by googling "golden 16 lacrosse" and clicking on the instagram post from uscl where they outline this. You can find similar language under the "more/national champion" tab on USCL site. There is a new system for submitting verified rosters- partnerships/alliances/double rostering disqualifies your team from the Golden 16. If you have no desire to be in the Golden 16, I guess you just operate in the gray area of the rules (and truthfully, it's not really "rules" it's just that the site that ranks you says they won't). I don't think anyone's qualifying for the Golden 16 anyway.

I wouldn't disagree with you if it weren't for the fact that the games actually count in the season-long national ratings for all teams that play a national team and the domino affect on the rest of the ratings. I'd love the idea of these "National Teams" if they didn't count and didn't count for anyone playing against them, especially if there were "off-season national teams" that allow a little bit of fun in the winter.

Because we are talking about "ethics" here, it doesn't matter if the hypothetical I'm going to give you here is 100% accurate. It just COULD happen, or could almost happen:

Urban Elite enters a California Tournament with a 90.75 rating. They find themselves facing an unranked team, "91 National." However, the star players are the girls they have faced before and will face again later in the season when they play as "91 Roar." 91 Roar is ranked at 97.76. Urban Elite ties the team. You'd figure it would have an impact on their rating of +7 points. Nope. Based on the National team being unranked, their ranking begins somewhere in the mid to high 80's. This tied game winds up dropping their ranking and rating. Fast forward to June. Top Guns faces Urban Elite. The two teams would have had similar ratings/rankings entering the competition. However, Urban Elite's rating was artificially affected by the last matchup against 91. So now the expected goal differential is significantly higher than it would have been. Now Top Guns has to blow out a team that is likely close in ability to them. Urban Elite loses by 2, which would usually have no major affect on their rankings, but they are part of this whole debacle. So now their rating has gone up by 8 points because the expected goal differential was 10 points. And guess who they are facing next? 91 Roar- who gets another crack at them with a new artificially enhanced rating.

While this is only satire- some of it could happen. And that "could" is what makes it unethical to play the same girls against the same teams throughout the same season. Even if it's just some of them. None of use can calculate "how many" girls make a difference on a roster.

USCL is rolling out mandatory roster verifications which would disallow double-rostering across the season. Appears as though right now it just affects those seeking "Golden 16" status, but their intent is obviously to clean up rosters and birth ages over time. Honestly, these new rules might push people further away from USCL rather than have them embraced as a governing body. Nobody is going to qualify for their rules for a long time.

Is this a joke?? This is so long and ridiculous! Who goes to these lengths for 7th grade rankings? get a life.

91 gets another crack at them??? 91 National is not Roar, not even close. Roar will destroy them like they did last summer. Mind or own biss

He said that it's satire, but the idea of it...actually makes sense. Double rostering throws a wrench in the works and creates some potentially unfair situations, demonstrated by this exaggerated post. "Who goes to these lengths" isn't really the issue. The issue is that these residual effects occur UNINTENTIONALLY when double rostering occurs. Nobody is trying to slight anyone here. This is why the rule exists.

USCL is not a governing body in lacrosse. They can make al the rules they want but it is all moot because USCL does not run any of the girls tournaments. USCL needs the top programs to run their “golden 16”. They know that their rankings or championship do not mean anything without the MD, LI, and PA teams.

There is a reason Inside lacrosse does not rank club teams till 9th grade.

So you’re saying teams are being unintentionally “hurt” bc of this?

C’mon

So a team is ranked 23rd instead of 19th (just picking random numbers)

Who cares? The college coaches don’t

Mommy and daddy for sure

Isn’t the goal of all of this to get better and be seen ? (And maybe have some fun )

the 91 national team may have had 6-10 roar girls. Probably at least 4 or 5 Roar girls that are difference makers were not with the National team this weekend, True, 91 Roar will destroy Urban Elite this Summer. Roar team and National team are not equal.

Do 7th grade rankings count for anything? I think we need some perspective here. All the LI teams are great - this is a special class with a lot of talent, at least right now. What we should be focused on is creating a top notch Long Island league like they have in MD and letting the girls practice against each other. More camaraderie and less competition. A rising tide lifts all boats.

This would be awesome. It is worth the sidenote though that the league in MD is what really allows the top teams to solidify their rankings, whether or not you value them. Consistently playing top ranked teams seals the deal AND creates strong programs.

Ethics are ethics, whether it’s now or 9th grade. USCL isn’t a governing body, but they assume that status when they are the ones setting the rules for their rankings and are the only ones doing those rankings.

Unfortunately the NGLL will not be well attended here on LI compared to MD. It would be great if there were more top teams to have a league. Besides YJ, TG and 91 , maybe tradition, there is a significant gap to the next team on LI. I know jesters and Igloo are trying to compete but are not on the same level yet.
Also YJ will not attend because they have their own spring league and $$$ stays in their own pocket.

Does the NGLL (on Long Island) have a legit league or it just a tournament? Is there any history of teams attending this? Never heard of it. Interested. Also, does YJ have a "league" in the spring or is it just that a majority of their events are affiliated with/sponsored by YJ? Is this why 91 was previously playing in local tournaments that don't get a lot of attention? Were they sponsored by 91 or something?

NGLL started an LI league last year. They had the winners of the different regions face off in a championship. NXT vs Hero’s were the finalist.
It would be nice if LI was like MD, where all the programs participate. There are enough teams, 91, TG, YJ, Tradition, igloo, jesters, legacy, Lax O N, etc to get it going.
I think parents and players would be interested in this but coaches and directors would probably put a kibosh to it. One has to think are the reasons besides not being able to profit monetarily off it, are the clubs protecting rankings,looking after their their brand & image (W/L records), not wanting their girls to get poached by another club, etc.

LI does have a spring and fall league at older ages. Some teams participate. Some don’t. It’s not affiliated w NGLL

What league are you talking about?

NGLL is very similar to the little league World Series format. Starts with regional league (tournament). Winner moves on to national tournament play. Last year was in nc same time as ncaa womens tournament. This year it’s at coppermine facility in md.

Long Island doesn’t have all the best teams represented.

Looks like 91 will be participating, at least according to a NGLL Instagram post

Why not? There is an NGLL in LI

NGLL is for losers…….

I know you're not from Long Island by your use of "in" instead of "on." The short answer is politics, money, and marketing. But also, while it's easy to say that non-involvement by teams is nefarious, the truth is that things simply don't line up for every team always. It would be really cool for every team to play in the same league. That's for sure.

Are there any Long Island teams that comp goalies as standard practice anymore? Not "goalies for hire" or "recruited to fill a void" goalies, but standard practice throughout their program.

Elevate comped goalies not sure if they do since FLG merge. Igloo comps goalies.

Sounded more appealing before it was known to be yet another batch of out of state travel

NGLL is a good idea. But doesn’t work everywhere. Maryland it’s big. Because they started it.

Teams from other regions play nothing to make it finals. LI would beat up on each other. For 1 team to go.

Larger programs don’t want to participate unless there’s something in it for them. Smaller programs don’t want to do it because it’s a recruiting festival of their best players.

Goalies. Igloo is “free”. It’s not. It’s about $1k for their mandatory equipment. Not sure if extra training is “free” or an add on. Odds are winter sessions are not free. If you have a kid that is very good. And money is tight. May be a good fit. If your kid is a project. Get ready to watch them stand on sidelines at tournies. Even on non-A teams.

Goalie dad here, “free” tuition use to be the case when there was a limited amount of girls willing to play goalie. Now it is refreshing to see PAL teams with two full time goalies at different age levels.

Expect to see your daughter split time with the other goalie at tournaments with the coach playing the “hot hand” in the shortened playoffs.

I laughed at this post. Then I saw the updated rankings and I'm wondering if Nostradamus has a lacrosse daughter.

What do you mean?

You know that teams do not care about goal differential when they are playing? If your daughter’s team wins a game but doesn’t cover the goal differential, do you tell her she “lost”? Or if they lose to an opponent but not by the goal differential do you tell your daughter that they “won”?

FYI the 91 national team will drop out of the rankings once the summer season kicks off as they won’t meet the minimum amount of games played.

Let the girls play and stop worrying about all the metrics of rankings.

Or stop entering double rostered girls into ranked competition, aka following the rules.

good or bad, my daughter's team's bench stays very warm until the goal differential has been maxed out. this is a reality of some high rated teams. li teams don't get a lot of shots at playing mid atlantic teams with a high rating so when they do...it counts. but this conversation doesn't seem to be about how many goals makes a girl or her team a winner or a lost it seems to be more about the entry of double rostered girls into ranked games that affect the standings---and the required goal differential to move up or down actual positions in rankings. those are very different things. not talking about feeling like winners or losers here, talking about goals required to advance.

if only the affect on the rankings that the 91 national team had will also drop out of the metrics.