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Re: Girls 2021-11th Grade Fall 2019/Summer 2020 [Re: TM@BOTC] #298587
01/27/20 03:05 PM
01/27/20 03:05 PM

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We can all agree the 2021 age group overall is a weak Long Island class.

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Re: Girls 2021-11th Grade Fall 2019/Summer 2020 [Re: Anonymous] #298609
01/28/20 10:30 AM
01/28/20 10:30 AM

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
IMO 75% of the ranked Top players playing on the Top D1 programs are legit and 25% are a function of making lists through politics, High School attended, coaches doing favors for players and other coaches, club team name only, legacy name, etc.

I would guess that the same ratio applies to these players having excellent college careers versus so-so careers (75% great/25% so-so). So many kids on these lists quickly find out that everybody on a Top 20 team can play, are athletic and they can't hide behind anything or get phony PR. As freshmen, they come in highly anticipated and ranked because of these lists only to find out at practice and in games that they are average.

Most ongoing successful college coaches in Top 20 recruit off of intuition, experience, need and team philosophy, not just lists. This is why they have sustained success and Top D1 ranking, if they recruited off of the Top player beauty pageants exclusively they will fail. I have seen this through many many years of observation.


What "lists" are you referring to? Who are you referring to when you say "ranked top players"?

IMHO and I have been following pretty closely since the HS graduating Class of 2014 the "Inside Lacrosse Young Gun Senior Top 30 Ranking (Now Top 50) and the Under Armour Senior All-Americans are legit lists.

You say:

"So many kids on these lists quickly find out that everybody on a Top 20 team can play, are athletic and they can't hide behind anything or get phony PR. As freshmen, they come in highly anticipated and ranked because of these lists only to find out at practice and in games that they are average."

First of all, there are not "so many kids on the list", they originally ranked only 30 players. You state that "so many" find out that they are "average". Do you really think that a player named to the IL Top 30 List is "Average"? C'mon man... The player might be "Average" at Maryland, Carolina or BC but that same player would most likely be a standout at Marist, Cornell or BU.

As for the statement:

"Most ongoing successful college coaches in Top 20 recruit off of intuition, experience, need and team philosophy, not just lists."

I do not believe that any of the most successful coaches recruit off of lists. However, I do believe that for the most part, people who know what they are looking at will identify many of the same players as being the "top talent".

I am not sure about your 75 / 25 assumption or how you define "great" or "so so" but IMHO you are trying to say that 25% of the players listed are only on the list due to something other than talent. In addition, you think that 25% are "average" players. I guess that you are implying that many players who are not recognized on the "Top Player Rankings" and who play for programs not traditionally in the Top 20 are actually better than the players that are listed on "the lists" and are playing for the Top Programs.

I believe the reality to be far different from your opinion.

Looking at the HS graduating class of 2015 it looks like more than 90% (27 or 28) of the "IL Top 30 Young Gun Seniors" had very good college careers. For the most part, the "ranked" players went to the "Traditional Top 20" programs and they do very well.

The reality is that there are not a lot of "non ranked" players who go to "non traditional top 20" programs that are better than a lot of players at the top programs. For example.... There are not many players at New Hampshire that are stronger than the players at Northwestern. Just the way it is...

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Re: Girls 2021-11th Grade Fall 2019/Summer 2020 [Re: TM@BOTC] #298733
01/30/20 07:31 PM
01/30/20 07:31 PM

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Yes! I know exactly what you’re talking about. It currying favor from clubs and schools. The club girl may show up in This years top freshman 9 or 10 but next year she will be gone from the team. It happened just this year with a top four team!
Also schools may send prospects/ recruits/committed southern/western girls to clubs (at least in Baltimore) so they can cut their teeth with more competitive club play

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Re: Girls 2021-11th Grade Fall 2019/Summer 2020 [Re: Anonymous] #298748
01/31/20 09:18 AM
01/31/20 09:18 AM

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Originally Posted by Anonymous

Yes! I know exactly what you’re talking about. It currying favor from clubs and schools. The club girl may show up in This years top freshman 9 or 10 but next year she will be gone from the team. It happened just this year with a top four team!
Also schools may send prospects/ recruits/committed southern/western girls to clubs (at least in Baltimore) so they can cut their teeth with more competitive club play


What in the world are you talking about? Are you responding to a post?

I have no idea what you're talking about.

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Re: Girls 2021-11th Grade Fall 2019/Summer 2020 [Re: Anonymous] #298791
01/31/20 06:41 PM
01/31/20 06:41 PM

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Some schools work with clubs for players.
Some clubs work with schools for players
They go above and beyond recruiting. Nothing illegal but there is some back-scratching.

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Re: Girls 2021-11th Grade Fall 2019/Summer 2020 [Re: Anonymous] #298802
02/01/20 09:26 AM
02/01/20 09:26 AM

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Agree 100% and see it more in girls than boys recruiting.

Seems like coaching "friendships" and historical club to team recruiting helps with lesser talented players.

I guess this makes sense just like in business you typically work with people you know and with companies you trust and have done a good job in the past.

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Re: Girls 2021-11th Grade Fall 2019/Summer 2020 [Re: Anonymous] #298809
02/01/20 06:55 PM
02/01/20 06:55 PM

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Agree 100% and see it more in girls than boys recruiting.

Seems like coaching "friendships" and historical club to team recruiting helps with lesser talented players.

I guess this makes sense just like in business you typically work with people you know and with companies you trust and have done a good job in the past.


So true. It's about relationships and trust. What D1 schools still have spots? Any top 50? I am still getting so many invites to camps and clinics but dont know which to go to.

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Re: Girls 2021-11th Grade Fall 2019/Summer 2020 [Re: Anonymous] #298815
02/02/20 10:31 AM
02/02/20 10:31 AM

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google RPI for 2018-2019 season....you will see teams outside of top 30 ..31 thru 81 can go up or down the list by 50 spots each season ....the top 30 and bottom 30 are pretty consistent ...middle 50 change from year to year ...pick an academic school that is a modest stretch for your kid and email coach to see if any spots available ? Then go to school on campus camps and clinics >>>good luck !

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Re: Girls 2021-11th Grade Fall 2019/Summer 2020 [Re: Anonymous] #298818
02/02/20 02:20 PM
02/02/20 02:20 PM

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
google RPI for 2018-2019 season....you will see teams outside of top 30 ..31 thru 81 can go up or down the list by 50 spots each season ....the top 30 and bottom 30 are pretty consistent ...middle 50 change from year to year ...pick an academic school that is a modest stretch for your kid and email coach to see if any spots available ? Then go to school on campus camps and clinics >>>good luck !


Tend to agree but would say the Top 20 - 25 pretty much stay the same not top 30.... Below is last years final RPI Top 30... Some anomalies... Hofstra, High Point, Wagner, Jacksonville, Richmond..(a number of other schools could fill those spots this year) But the other 25 will be there again, they are pretty much the top 25 programs.
For the most part the other 25 will not only be in the Top 25 RPI but they will be the Top 25 in all the rankings / polls. Navy has become a regular, Denver is for real and Michigan will consistantly be in the mix going forward. Obviously it is very challenging to get an offer from the top programs but there is a tremendous amount of opportunity as you go down in the rankings and there are many excellent schools to play at. This sport provides more opportunity than any other.

1 Maryland
2 Boston College
3 North Carolina
4 Northwestern
5 Princeton
6 Syracuse
7 Virginia
8 Florida
9 Denver
10 Michigan
11 Southern California
12 Loyola
13 Navy
14 Notre Dame
15 Stony Brook
16 James Madison
17 Penn State
18 Penn
19 Colorado
20 Johns Hopkins
21 Dartmouth
22 Massachusetts
23 Richmond
24 Georgetown
25 Stanford
26 Jacksonville
27 Wagner
28 Duke
29 High Point
30 Hofstra

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Re: Girls 2021-11th Grade Fall 2019/Summer 2020 [Re: Anonymous] #298821
02/02/20 03:48 PM
02/02/20 03:48 PM

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Agree 100% and see it more in girls than boys recruiting.

Seems like coaching "friendships" and historical club to team recruiting helps with lesser talented players.

I guess this makes sense just like in business you typically work with people you know and with companies you trust and have done a good job in the past.


So true. It's about relationships and trust. What D1 schools still have spots? Any top 50? I am still getting so many invites to camps and clinics but dont know which to go to.


The schools are still sending out camp invites to their mailing lists. You need to talk to the coaches directly to see if they're still looking at 2021s. The answer from top 30 schools will most likely be no at this point but you never know.

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Re: Girls 2021-11th Grade Fall 2019/Summer 2020 [Re: Anonymous] #298828
02/02/20 08:59 PM
02/02/20 08:59 PM

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Why give out false hope? Top 50 is 99% done.

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Re: Girls 2021-11th Grade Fall 2019/Summer 2020 [Re: Anonymous] #298832
02/03/20 11:50 AM
02/03/20 11:50 AM

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My point is regarding RPI ranking changing dramatically outside the usual top 30 teams

2018 RPI 2019 RPI
Yale 32 Yale 75
UDEL 33 UDEL 73
Uconn 42 Uconn 77
Siena 100 Siena 56
Bing 67 Bing 107
Lehigh 29 Lehigh 54

just to name a few ...point is don't get hung up on top 50 programs being done with recruiting ...a current 32 ranked team can be a 75 ranked team in a year or vice versa ...

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Re: Girls 2021-11th Grade Fall 2019/Summer 2020 [Re: TM@BOTC] #298834
02/03/20 01:13 PM
02/03/20 01:13 PM

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2020 class was heavily recruited and 2021 class will be lightly recruited. Recruiting is close to done at most top 50, maybe some schools have 1 spot max.

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Re: Girls 2021-11th Grade Fall 2019/Summer 2020 [Re: Anonymous] #298906
02/04/20 08:41 PM
02/04/20 08:41 PM

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
My point is regarding RPI ranking changing dramatically outside the usual top 30 teams

2018 RPI 2019 RPI
Yale 32 Yale 75
UDEL 33 UDEL 73
Uconn 42 Uconn 77
Siena 100 Siena 56
Bing 67 Bing 107
Lehigh 29 Lehigh 54

just to name a few ...point is don't get hung up on top 50 programs being done with recruiting ...a current 32 ranked team can be a 75 ranked team in a year or vice versa ...


There are really only about 15 maybe 20 programs that are consistently in the Top 20 with a handful of others on the cusp... after those programs it is a garbage shoot in terms of where the team will finish each year in the RPI Rankings so I would not give a teams RPI a second thought.


The programs that always seem to finish the year in the Top 20 are:

Maryland
North Carolina
Northwestern
Syracuse
Virginia
Princeton
Penn
Florida
Notre Dame
Stony Brook
Boston College
Penn State

The above are the most consistent programs.

Next I would put:

Duke
Loyola
USC
Stanford
Hopkins
Georgetown
Navy
JMU

I think Michigan will become a regular Top 20 Team going forward. Denver has a very good program and UMass quietly finishes in the Top 20 on a regular basis. Dartmouth is tough as well.

Tremendous opportunity out there, many excellent schools beyond the top programs. Don't get caught up... a lot of opportunity in DII and DIII as well.

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Re: Girls 2021-11th Grade Fall 2019/Summer 2020 [Re: Anonymous] #300592
03/21/20 10:05 PM
03/21/20 10:05 PM

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It's going to be rough for the 21s who are not committed if the summer season is cancelled.

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