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Re: Boys 2022 - 8th Grade Fall 2017/Summer 2018
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Crabs still biggest name and track record. Too many clubs now to dominate every youth year, but every hs team is still great.

As for offense, you are a dummy. They don't run iso offenses. They are motion ball movement to get a backside look.

Easy to hate him or Crabs, but do your homework.

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Crabs still biggest name and track record. Too many clubs now to dominate every youth year, but every hs team is still great.

As for offense, you are a dummy. They don't run iso offenses. They are motion ball movement to get a backside look.

Easy to hate him or Crabs, but do your homework.


No doubt the teams have historically been good. I have some cd's i can sell you too. Those were awesome. Things change and evolve. Crabs has not. Every current HS team is not great. A bunch of 2020's all fled after a year with Ryan. The 2021's threatened to when Ryan talked about staying with them instead of coaching the 22's this year. Most of the 22's have already left. Half the 23's left this year. he 24's didn't win a game in HoCo last year. You really think the 22's are going to figure it out when they get to high school? Keep sticking your head in the sand and talking about their track record. Breakers used to be the second best club around. Greene Turtle and Looneys used to be very good too. Things change.

Re: Boys 2022 - 8th Grade Fall 2017/Summer 2018
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Not ISO but a an offense that typically begins with an alley dodge from a big strong middie. Little to no 2 man game or seal intensive step down shooting. All about the middies driving the alley, spinning the ball resulting in a lay up by the attackman on the backside. Not exactly cutting edge or great preparation for the A Conferwnce or D1.

What former MIAA varsity (no JV or deep on the bench varsity assistants don’t count) coordinators or HCs or college ones for that matter coach for the Crabs? How much film study (Hudl or Krossover) intensive game planning and mid game adjustments vs yelling when schematically your team is not well prepared. How many position specific skills and drills during the off season? Folks shelling out a lot of after tax $$ want to know.

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Crabs still biggest name and track record. Too many clubs now to dominate every youth year, but every hs team is still great.

As for offense, you are a dummy. They don't run iso offenses. They are motion ball movement to get a backside look.

Easy to hate him or Crabs, but do your homework.


No doubt the teams have historically been good. I have some cd's i can sell you too. Those were awesome. Things change and evolve. Crabs has not. Every current HS team is not great. A bunch of 2020's all fled after a year with Ryan. The 2021's threatened to when Ryan talked about staying with them instead of coaching the 22's this year. Most of the 22's have already left. Half the 23's left this year. he 24's didn't win a game in HoCo last year. You really think the 22's are going to figure it out when they get to high school? Keep sticking your head in the sand and talking about their track record. Breakers used to be the second best club around. Greene Turtle and Looneys used to be very good too. Things change.

Things change. Agreed! From the outhouse to the penthouse - the Evergreen 2022 Elite story. Working hard every day to rise to the top. Final chapter to be written next summer.

Re: Boys 2022 - 8th Grade Fall 2017/Summer 2018
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Looks like the only Box League option this year in Baltimore is Premier Series Lacrosse box league being run out of Myers Pavilion. I think they are stil looking for a team signup and some individual sign ups.

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Re: Boys 2022 - 8th Grade Fall 2017/Summer 2018
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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Crabs still biggest name and track record. Too many clubs now to dominate every youth year, but every hs team is still great.

As for offense, you are a dummy. They don't run iso offenses. They are motion ball movement to get a backside look.

Easy to hate him or Crabs, but do your homework.


No doubt the teams have historically been good. I have some cd's i can sell you too. Those were awesome. Things change and evolve. Crabs has not. Every current HS team is not great. A bunch of 2020's all fled after a year with Ryan. The 2021's threatened to when Ryan talked about staying with them instead of coaching the 22's this year. Most of the 22's have already left. Half the 23's left this year. he 24's didn't win a game in HoCo last year. You really think the 22's are going to figure it out when they get to high school? Keep sticking your head in the sand and talking about their track record. Breakers used to be the second best club around. Greene Turtle and Looneys used to be very good too. Things change.

Things change. Agreed! From the outhouse to the penthouse - the Evergreen 2022 Elite story. Working hard every day to rise to the top. Final chapter to be written next summer.

Way to go Evergreen guy! Calling his shots early. I am curious about this team. Where have they played this fall?

Re: Boys 2022 - 8th Grade Fall 2017/Summer 2018
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Fall Rankings:
Hawks
DC Express
FCA
Roughriders
Madlax
Team 9d1
Crabs
Diamondbacks

Leaving Next Level off because they didn't belong in the Elite Division

Re: Boys 2022 - 8th Grade Fall 2017/Summer 2018
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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Fall Rankings:
Hawks
DC Express
FCA
Roughriders
Madlax
Team 9d1
Crabs
Diamondbacks

Leaving Next Level off because they didn't belong in the Elite Division


The dbags don't belong in the elite division either.

Re: Boys 2022 - 8th Grade Fall 2017/Summer 2018
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Crabs, 91, and RR did not look elite at McDonogh.

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Crabs, 91, and RR did not look elite at McDonogh.


I thought 91 awful compared to where I saw this team in the summer during the National Championships. I heard they added some key players after losing some kids; I surely did not see it. This team will get crushed in the elite division until MM gets some out of state 10th graders to come in.

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Crabs, 91, and RR did not look elite at McDonogh.


RR is missing 7 kids due to injuries this fall. Crabs and 91 had almost full rosters and both were embarrassed in their only tough matchup.

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Crabs, 91, and RR did not look elite at McDonogh.


RR is missing 7 kids due to injuries this fall. Crabs and 91 had almost full rosters and both were embarrassed in their only tough matchup.


Crab's had a 10 year old kid facing off for them at McDonogh and only lost the one game to FCA you TWIT!!

They ran every other team off the field and that was AFTER playing 5 games the previous day.

10 to 3 is a REAL butt kicker when you have possession at the X 100% of the time huh....LOL.

Guess the whole team went to sizzlers to celebrate that EPIC win??

Go get a life you @ss wipe!!!

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Crabs, 91, and RR did not look elite at McDonogh.


RR is missing 7 kids due to injuries this fall. Crabs and 91 had almost full rosters and both were embarrassed in their only tough matchup.


Crab's had a 10 year old kid facing off for them at McDonogh and only lost the one game to FCA you TWIT!!

They ran every other team off the field and that was AFTER playing 5 games the previous day.

10 to 3 is a REAL butt kicker when you have possession at the X 100% of the time huh....LOL.

Guess the whole team went to sizzlers to celebrate that EPIC win??

Go get a life you @ss wipe!!!


That 10 yr old kid is much better than the actual 2022 fogo.

Re: Boys 2022 - 8th Grade Fall 2017/Summer 2018
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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Crabs, 91, and RR did not look elite at McDonogh.


RR is missing 7 kids due to injuries this fall. Crabs and 91 had almost full rosters and both were embarrassed in their only tough matchup.


Crab's had a 10 year old kid facing off for them at McDonogh and only lost the one game to FCA you TWIT!!

They ran every other team off the field and that was AFTER playing 5 games the previous day.

10 to 3 is a REAL butt kicker when you have possession at the X 100% of the time huh....LOL.

Guess the whole team went to sizzlers to celebrate that EPIC win??

Go get a life you @ss wipe!!!


That 10 yr old kid is much better than the actual 2022 fogo.



His technique and skill is impressive for such a young kid, I will give you that.

But no, he is not "much better" than their 2022 fogo and furthermore he weighs about 60lbs dripping wet on his best day and was simply no match physically to the FCA fogo.

Keep enjoying that "big win" though FCA Dad's....the stuff of legend....LOL.

Re: Boys 2022 - 8th Grade Fall 2017/Summer 2018
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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Crabs, 91, and RR did not look elite at McDonogh.


RR is missing 7 kids due to injuries this fall. Crabs and 91 had almost full rosters and both were embarrassed in their only tough matchup.


Crab's had a 10 year old kid facing off for them at McDonogh and only lost the one game to FCA you TWIT!!

They ran every other team off the field and that was AFTER playing 5 games the previous day.

10 to 3 is a REAL butt kicker when you have possession at the X 100% of the time huh....LOL.

Guess the whole team went to sizzlers to celebrate that EPIC win??

Go get a life you @ss wipe!!!


That 10 yr old kid is much better than the actual 2022 fogo.



His technique and skill is impressive for such a young kid, I will give you that.

But no, he is not "much better" than their 2022 fogo and furthermore he weighs about 60lbs dripping wet on his best day and was simply no match physically to the FCA fogo.

Keep enjoying that "big win" though FCA Dad's....the stuff of legend....LOL.








I'm not an FCA parent. I just know that if you are stating the reason that you couldn't win a face off is because your normal guy wasn't there, well you know that's not true. That kid couldn't win face offs up here in Philly. Can't believe he's on Crabs.

Re: Boys 2022 - 8th Grade Fall 2017/Summer 2018
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All this talk about elite teams. What makes them elite?

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FCA is the top team in Baltimore !

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
All this talk about elite teams. What makes them elite?


There is a division in the HOCO league called Elite.(First reason that might jump out at ya)
These 10-12 teams are just that much better than any other teams at this age group.(2nd reason is obvious too)
Its pretty simple what makes them elite
This is a title given by League ,Tournament officials ,Clubs and Coaches

Hope this answers your great question

Re: Boys 2022 - 8th Grade Fall 2017/Summer 2018
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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
All this talk about elite teams. What makes them elite?


There is a division in the HOCO league called Elite.(First reason that might jump out at ya)
These 10-12 teams are just that much better than any other teams at this age group.(2nd reason is obvious too)
Its pretty simple what makes them elite
This is a title given by League ,Tournament officials ,Clubs and Coaches

Hope this answers your great question


There aren't 10-12 teams. There are 7 or 8 top teams. If the Elite Division has more teams than that it's a shame. Would be nice if everyone gets to play everyone this year and they keep the numbers down.

Don't need Next Level or anyone else like that in there that can't win a game. Dbacks and Crabs will struggle to do so already

Re: Boys 2022 - 8th Grade Fall 2017/Summer 2018
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Hawks and DCE are Elite....not sure about others.

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
All this talk about elite teams. What makes them elite?


There is a division in the HOCO league called Elite.(First reason that might jump out at ya)
These 10-12 teams are just that much better than any other teams at this age group.(2nd reason is obvious too)
Its pretty simple what makes them elite
This is a title given by League ,Tournament officials ,Clubs and Coaches

Hope this answers your great question


There aren't 10-12 teams. There are 7 or 8 top teams. If the Elite Division has more teams than that it's a shame. Would be nice if everyone gets to play everyone this year and they keep the numbers down.

Don't need Next Level or anyone else like that in there that can't win a game. Dbacks and Crabs will struggle to do so already


I disagree, Don’t sell RM short. He’s no longer the front runner who loads his teams up with studs many of which are holdbacks and rolls the ball out. He is embracing a new image: being the coach who accumulates kids cut from other program, turning a struggling team around. His patience and teaching acumen are legendary. Watch how this 2022 Crabs team progresses.

Re: Boys 2022 - 8th Grade Fall 2017/Summer 2018
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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
All this talk about elite teams. What makes them elite?


There is a division in the HOCO league called Elite.(First reason that might jump out at ya)
These 10-12 teams are just that much better than any other teams at this age group.(2nd reason is obvious too)
Its pretty simple what makes them elite
This is a title given by League ,Tournament officials ,Clubs and Coaches

Hope this answers your great question


There aren't 10-12 teams. There are 7 or 8 top teams. If the Elite Division has more teams than that it's a shame. Would be nice if everyone gets to play everyone this year and they keep the numbers down.

Don't need Next Level or anyone else like that in there that can't win a game. Dbacks and Crabs will struggle to do so already


I disagree, Don’t sell RM short. He’s no longer the front runner who loads his teams up with studs many of which are holdbacks and rolls the ball out. He is embracing a new image: being the coach who accumulates kids cut from other program, turning a struggling team around. His patience and teaching acumen are legendary. Watch how this 2022 Crabs team progresses.

This has to be a troll. Got to be.

Re: Boys 2022 - 8th Grade Fall 2017/Summer 2018
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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
All this talk about elite teams. What makes them elite?


There is a division in the HOCO league called Elite.(First reason that might jump out at ya)
These 10-12 teams are just that much better than any other teams at this age group.(2nd reason is obvious too)
Its pretty simple what makes them elite
This is a title given by League ,Tournament officials ,Clubs and Coaches

Hope this answers your great question


There aren't 10-12 teams. There are 7 or 8 top teams. If the Elite Division has more teams than that it's a shame. Would be nice if everyone gets to play everyone this year and they keep the numbers down.

Don't need Next Level or anyone else like that in there that can't win a game. Dbacks and Crabs will struggle to do so already


I disagree, Don’t sell RM short. He’s no longer the front runner who loads his teams up with studs many of which are holdbacks and rolls the ball out. He is embracing a new image: being the coach who accumulates kids cut from other program, turning a struggling team around. His patience and teaching acumen are legendary. Watch how this 2022 Crabs team progresses.


Is this serious? Patience and teaching acumen? Those two words have never been associated with RM. He cut his own son for goodness sake. You think he is accumulating kids cut by other programs by choice? They are the only kids that came to tryouts. You don't think he wouldn't load up the team with stud holdbacks if he could? There are already a bunch of holdbacks on the team. And then how do you explain him bringing in kids from Texas and California for this team? We've all been watching this 2022 team since 5th grade and there has been no progression other than the steady exit of talent for better programs. Screaming at kids and not providing any actual instruction other than asking the kid why they did something is not patience and does not show any teaching acumen. All the teams know how to defend their middies running the alley. They've lost almost all of their defenders over the last few years. There are definitely some good kids on that team, but they have no idea how to play together. RM has no clue how to teach them to do so so it will be interesting to watch how they progress. My guess is there will be an abundance of "guest" players for them this summer. There was for Young Guns last year. Has to be great to be a parent/player on a team where they are bringing in "guests" because your kid isn't good enough even with RM using his legendary patience and teaching acumen to help improve.

Re: Boys 2022 - 8th Grade Fall 2017/Summer 2018
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Originally Posted by Anonymous
FCA is the top team in Baltimore !


Maybe when everyone else is playing out of state?

Re: Boys 2022 - 8th Grade Fall 2017/Summer 2018
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I cannot wait for the spring lacrosse season to get here. What programs are playing in the league at St. Paul's? I would think all the same teams are playing in HOCO league.

Top Division
Hawks
DC
RR
MAD
91
FCA
Crabs
DB
Koopers ?
Looneys ?
Dukes?
Next Level?

Anyone else

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
FCA is the top team in Baltimore !


Maybe when everyone else is playing out of state?


FCA is better than:
91 md
Crabs
Looneys
Koopers
Green Turtle
Lax Factory
Bitmore
and who ever else

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
All this talk about elite teams. What makes them elite?


There is a division in the HOCO league called Elite.(First reason that might jump out at ya)
These 10-12 teams are just that much better than any other teams at this age group.(2nd reason is obvious too)
Its pretty simple what makes them elite
This is a title given by League ,Tournament officials ,Clubs and Coaches

Hope this answers your great question


There aren't 10-12 teams. There are 7 or 8 top teams. If the Elite Division has more teams than that it's a shame. Would be nice if everyone gets to play everyone this year and they keep the numbers down.

Don't need Next Level or anyone else like that in there that can't win a game. Dbacks and Crabs will struggle to do so already




Thanks for clarifying all of that for us. (troll) The question wasn't how many teams are Elite but what makes them Elite? Doesn't make a difference how many there is . But since you know everything it appears , please inform us all on why your little johnny is an Elite Player. Better yet what is it like to be a parent of an Elite player?

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
FCA is the top team in Baltimore !


Maybe when everyone else is playing out of state?


FCA is better than:
91 md
Crabs
Looneys
Koopers
Green Turtle
Lax Factory
Bitmore
and who ever else


Thanks FCA dad. Now don't forget to get your kid to the fake prayer service, don't want to be late for that. Such a scam, a money making scam at that.

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Crabs, 91, and RR did not look elite at McDonogh.


RR is missing 7 kids due to injuries this fall. Crabs and 91 had almost full rosters and both were embarrassed in their only tough matchup.


Crab's had a 10 year old kid facing off for them at McDonogh and only lost the one game to FCA you TWIT!!

They ran every other team off the field and that was AFTER playing 5 games the previous day.

10 to 3 is a REAL butt kicker when you have possession at the X 100% of the time huh....LOL.

Guess the whole team went to sizzlers to celebrate that EPIC win??

Go get a life you @ss wipe!!!


That 10 yr old kid is much better than the actual 2022 fogo.



His technique and skill is impressive for such a young kid, I will give you that.

But no, he is not "much better" than their 2022 fogo and furthermore he weighs about 60lbs dripping wet on his best day and was simply no match physically to the FCA fogo.

Keep enjoying that "big win" though FCA Dad's....the stuff of legend....LOL.

Anyone else find it disturbing that a couple fall ball games were so important that the Crabs brought in a 60 lb.10 year old kid to play against 13 and 14 year old kids? Either this guy is full of it or the Crabs have no conscience. They know better than any club the physical advantages older kids enjoy over younger ones at this age. Guess this kid getting mauled and beat up was secondary to winning just a couple more face-offs. But hey, you got those W's vs. DC Express B and Looney's.

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
FCA is the top team in Baltimore !


Maybe when everyone else is playing out of state?


FCA is better than:
91 md
Crabs
Looneys
Koopers
Green Turtle
Lax Factory
Bitmore
and who ever else

Not better than Evergreen.

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Crabs, 91, and RR did not look elite at McDonogh.


RR is missing 7 kids due to injuries this fall. Crabs and 91 had almost full rosters and both were embarrassed in their only tough matchup.


Crab's had a 10 year old kid facing off for them at McDonogh and only lost the one game to FCA you TWIT!!

They ran every other team off the field and that was AFTER playing 5 games the previous day.

10 to 3 is a REAL butt kicker when you have possession at the X 100% of the time huh....LOL.

Guess the whole team went to sizzlers to celebrate that EPIC win??

Go get a life you @ss wipe!!!


That 10 yr old kid is much better than the actual 2022 fogo.



His technique and skill is impressive for such a young kid, I will give you that.

But no, he is not "much better" than their 2022 fogo and furthermore he weighs about 60lbs dripping wet on his best day and was simply no match physically to the FCA fogo.

Keep enjoying that "big win" though FCA Dad's....the stuff of legend....LOL.

Anyone else find it disturbing that a couple fall ball games were so important that the Crabs brought in a 60 lb.10 year old kid to play against 13 and 14 year old kids? Either this guy is full of it or the Crabs have no conscience. They know better than any club the physical advantages older kids enjoy over younger ones at this age. Guess this kid getting mauled and beat up was secondary to winning just a couple more face-offs. But hey, you got those W's vs. DC Express B and Looney's.


Shut the F#CK up Donnie!!!!

You're like a child that wanders into the middle of an adult conversation!!

Here is the recap Donnie, you idiot.

The boy in question is from the Crab's 2024 team and I would imagine his folks ok'd him to face off for the tourney at Mickey D's because the 2022 fogo was unable to attend and the team needed a fogo.

This isn't MMA fighting you worthless piece of sh#t, it's facing off. He did not get mauled or beat up...he just never won possession of the ball you Dunce.

Having a good fogo can "win you lots of games"...even if the teams you play are superior. When you win possessions 99% of the time, it's not that hard to wear a defense down and cash in.

Back in Nam we used to say....ahhh forget about it.

Signed,

Walter Sobchak

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Now that is some good stuff! ^^^^^^^Cheers

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What makes a elite team is holdbacks and lots of them . Because their not good enough to play with guys the same age .

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FCA from what I see is a pretty strong team - good middies and attack. Weak at LSM and needs another go to scorer. Will be tough to beat this year!

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
What makes a elite team is holdbacks and lots of them . Because their not good enough to play with guys the same age .


Many Elite teams have few if any holdbacks last year. This year all teams will have a more simply because its the nature of the beast. There is no rules stopping it. Like it or not that i how the system is that every parent agrees to play in. So take your cry baby post to the forum that was set up for parents who continue to sign up for something that they complain about over and over again. Remember there is a ton of A,B,C and Rec teams for your kid to play on. Please don't join a team that you know has holdbacks because they all do now and cry because another team might have more or you are not as good as another team.

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
What makes a elite team is holdbacks and lots of them . Because their not good enough to play with guys the same age .


The sad thing is that they are good enough to play with kids their own age, but they wouldn't be "top 10" and get the awards and [lacrosse] kissing they get for playing down.

The 9/1 cutoff for middle school age leagues and tournaments is coming. It will just take a while to phase it in.

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Looks like the only Box League option this year in Baltimore is Premier Series Lacrosse box league being run out of Myers Pavilion. I think they are stil looking for a team signup and some individual sign ups.




The PSL league looks great for Box lacrosse in Baltimore for teams and individuals.

Frederick has the FILL league
Rockville has the DMV Premier league
Dulles, VA has the CBLL
All are great options for kids that want to play some real box.

They are starting soon, so kids and teams need to sign up if they want to play now.

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Surprising that Autumn Classic is able to draw so many out of state teams, when so many in-state top level teams avoid it.
These teams will either be dissapointed that the more talented MD teams are missing or think they are awesome because they can play with the MD Big Boys (Zingos and Hereford)
Harvest 2022 - NY
Sweetlax Florida 2022 - FL
Grizz 2022 - PA
Palm Beach Revolution 2022 - FL
2022 Legacy Madness - NY
South Fayette Lacrosse Club - PA
X Factor Lacrosse Club - FL
Blak Widow Select Platinum - PA
HLC 2022
True PA 2022 - PA
Evergreen 2022 - VA
Zingos 2022

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
What makes a elite team is holdbacks and lots of them . Because their not good enough to play with guys the same age .


Many Elite teams have few if any holdbacks last year. This year all teams will have a more simply because its the nature of the beast. There is no rules stopping it. Like it or not that i how the system is that every parent agrees to play in. So take your cry baby post to the forum that was set up for parents who continue to sign up for something that they complain about over and over again. Remember there is a ton of A,B,C and Rec teams for your kid to play on. Please don't join a team that you know has holdbacks because they all do now and cry because another team might have more or you are not as good as another team.


And the sad thing is that you buy into this since your child can not stand out against children his own age. You and your kind could care less about the integrity of Youth lacrosse.

Re: Boys 2022 - 8th Grade Fall 2017/Summer 2018
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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Surprising that Autumn Classic is able to draw so many out of state teams, when so many in-state top level teams avoid it.
These teams will either be dissapointed that the more talented MD teams are missing or think they are awesome because they can play with the MD Big Boys (Zingos and Hereford)
Harvest 2022 - NY
Sweetlax Florida 2022 - FL
Grizz 2022 - PA
Palm Beach Revolution 2022 - FL
2022 Legacy Madness - NY
South Fayette Lacrosse Club - PA
X Factor Lacrosse Club - FL
Blak Widow Select Platinum - PA
HLC 2022
True PA 2022 - PA
Evergreen 2022 - VA
Zingos 2022


Agree...but at least the Zingos are in it!

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