US Lacrosse Community Forum Forums MID-ATLANTIC LACROSSE MARYLAND FORUM MadLax Lacrosse

Cabell Maddox is a bad guy. We all get that. HOWEVER...

VLC's owner is the most vile person in youth sports. He's profane, arrogant and vindictive. He's also the guy who single handedly steered the NPYLL league and Aloha/Crabs tournaments to be the first non-US lacrosse sanctioned lacrosse league and events, which opened the floodgates to serial reclassifying. Crabs basically pioneered the holdback game and their owner is a notorious poacher of other club team players and is a ruthless negative recruiter with to anyone after a kid/family leave his organization. Our family experienced watching his overloading the whole Madlax kid defecting to VLC drama...all over what was adding a very average player to a loaded VLC team with a side deal to hype the kid and get him committed.

Blackwolf -- how many Blackwolf parents actually personally like and respect Trig? None I've known and I've known dozens. Most families stay te course with Blackwolf because they promote kids to colleges well.

Next Level -- Dave's good people and he's a good coach. I hope NL parents have the sense to stay on and trust he will get it done.

3d -- love all the anti Spencer and Steven cheap shots. Ya, everyone HATES those guys. Everybody except the 3d families who have had their kids learn from these two guys who are good guys and deal straight with people. They're also the most accomplished and knowledgeable lacrosse people in the area. Try me again, where were Trig, Ryan and Cabell D1 AAs and also MLL All Stars? Kind of pathetic mommies and daddies postin here would talk some smack on them. But wait...Spencer used to coach Crabs and a few moms didn't like it wen he yelled at their snowflakes! My dear, the trauma! The humanity!

Thank you 3D Apologist for your response. To answer your questions, VLC barely (if ever) sees or hears from Ryan M. He may own VLC, but he doesn't dictate the day to day operations, coaching, etc. Coach Lew for 2020 is excellent, and has a proven track record coaching lacrosse. Oh, and if getting recruited to play at UVA is "average" then I guess every single parent on this board is pining for their son to be just "average". Where do the "excellent" kids commit and play?

As for Trig, you can love or hate him - but you know what you're getting. For every parent you talk to that says he was/is an [lacrosse], I can also say you'll find a like minded group of parents and kids who he coached say it was the best experience of their life.

NL - good club, good coaching, good place for youth to play

3D - the coaching staff has good pedigrees, but that doesn't mean they can coach and win. I've never met them, they could be wonderful people. But I do know their 2020 mid atlantic team is 0-4 without much left to play for.

We've had a good experience at 3d - haven't witnessed any of the behavior mentioned in the above post.

So I've heard all of this before. Since Steven and Spencer are both affiliated with the MLL, they have an absurd number of connections to college coaches and especially the assistants which many also play in the MLL.

If there was a school we were interested in, it was highly likely one of them knew the coach. The Bayhawks alone probably have half a dozen assistant coaches playing. Spencer would put in a call and more times than not that coach would find us during the summer, so yea, I agree 3d isn't always in the best tournaments (although they are still good), but I found that it didn't matter. Furthermore, there are plenty of opportunities to play on National teams that do play in the top tourneys.

When we were with a club that went to better tournaments, the coach never once picked up the phone on our behalf (and my son was a starter). For us, the level of advocacy we got at 3d justified the price. They will also work with you on the costs.

Well this sounds like the old if you are good enough they will find you speech. Which I think is 95% correct. As for the picking up the phone and calling the coach story. Did you ask the old club to call this school for you. Or should club coaches be cold calling all schools they think your son is good enough to play for. I am guessing all top 5 clubs in va the owners/coaches will call any school you ask them to. If they think your son is good enough to play there. That is the big IF. If your son is a D3 player and you ask the coach/owner to call a top 10 D1 school about your son should they make the call? I think the best rule of thumb is if your son is not clearly in the top 5% of players in his class. You as a parent need to be very proactive in the process.

... I'd say being recruited by UVA is pretty average these days. Great school but the lacrosse program is yesteryear's darling. VLC didn't move the earth to sell the club's soul to poach a very average player and get same player committed to UVA. That sounds like the same middle aged guy who thinks chicks dig his Corvette.

You can spin what I say any way you'd like. I'm simply stating that for us, the level of support we got from these guys was way beyond what we got at other clubs - partly due to their personal relationships with many of the coaches. They also followed up to get feedback from the coaches they knew. Again, not something we experienced from other top clubs.

There is the 800 lb gorilla in the room now. Umm, have you seen UVA in the recent couple of years? Basically they have a few stars and then 40 kids who should be, as you wrote, playing D2. If the 3d coaches are pitching in for their kids, does anyone see that as a snake oil sales job versus, oh I don't know, Trig then Cabell then whomever the mouth is at VLC selling the next 7th grader in line who can catch and throw? Overselling is a staple of club lacrosse in every club. Wake up. That's the tuition value proposition they all sell. The list of dozens of Crabs, Madlax and Blackwolf kids who committed early and have no chance of ever seeing the field at a D1 program grows by another dozen every summer. We all know that. If anyone thinks their grade based middle school club teams are so wonderful that they have players all over the field who should be early recruits, that is nuts. The college coaches who pioneered this are one by one going to lost their jobs very soon.

There is the 800 lb gorilla in the room now. Umm, have you seen UVA in the recent couple of years? Basically they have a few stars and then 40 kids who should be, as you wrote, playing D2. If the 3d coaches are pitching in for their kids, does anyone see that as a snake oil sales job versus, oh I don't know, Trig then Cabell then whomever the mouth is at VLC selling the next 7th grader in line who can catch and throw? Overselling is a staple of club lacrosse in every club. Wake up. That's the tuition value proposition they all sell. The list of dozens of Crabs, Madlax and Blackwolf kids who committed early and have no chance of ever seeing the field at a D1 program grows by another dozen every summer. We all know that. If anyone thinks their grade based middle school club teams are so wonderful that they have players all over the field who should be early recruits, that is nuts. The college coaches who pioneered this are one by one going to lost their jobs very soon.

If you think the 2018 and 2019 Madlax early commits to JHU attack man where over sold you are blind as a bat these two are top five overall players in there class. The early commits from Madlax are worthy of there early commit. I think the coaches at a club like 3D mid Atlantic need to push kids to levels they really should not be playing to increase there name brand. Because the new parents never research past the list of past kids and where they went to school. None ever look to see if they ever played or stayed or if they should of played at the school from the list. I for sure think the cold call from a club coach is the most over blown part of this process. The college coaches call these top clubs and ask them for a list of positions and names of kids they should look out for. And these top clubs are at the big tournaments so these coaches can see for there selves and they will ask more questions after they see a kid play with there own eyes.

Look at the UVA roster of IAC, WCAC grads. Most played for Crabs, Blackwolf or Madlax. Now consider ONE of them plays some. Jack Falk...who is a real talent albeit a guy with unfortunate injuries. Then ONE kid who gets some face offs and did well...he WAS NOT RECRUITED AT ALL TO UVA AND WAS A TRANSFER WALK ON. Now count the rest...bench splinters in every other [lacrosse]. Long row of never played never will play unless it is UVA 19 - VMI 2. Varsity letter day.

Now look at the Hopkins roster. ONE MIAA kid (Fields) playing. Long row of benchers and several kids who couldn't cut it and just quit before the season even started (what's the Landon all-world goalie up to now??). Maryland has two kids from the DMV club scence cabal playing. An SSSAS kid who is going great and a MoCo public school kid who plays a little. Again, long row of DMV scene grads who warm that bench up real nice, including your all-world Met POY from last year.

Tearing it up?!? You're tearing me up with laughter. There might be 5 kids in the recruiting pipeline 2016-2019 now from Madlax, Crabs and BW who will feel a blade of field grass below their feet in a D1 program. That's not what a lacrosse mom or dad wants to hear -- but it is true. DMV lacrosse is vastly overrated and the college coaches who relied too heavily on it are already regretting it. And yes, I did play in college and I also have ex-college mates who are D1 assistants. They have absolutely nothing to say when guys like me tease on it...because I'm right. Calm down a little and let your sons develop and be happy. Whether or not they belong on a high level college field someday won't evidence itself until they are HS seniors. Back in the day -- you all of maybe 10 years ago -- that is wha it looked like and coaches used to recruit based on that. Nothin has changed except some coaches like Petro and Starsia have been fools, and now they are startin to pay the price for it in terms of perfrmance.

Look at the UVA roster of IAC, WCAC grads. Most played for Crabs, Blackwolf or Madlax. Now consider ONE of them plays some. Jack Falk...who is a real talent albeit a guy with unfortunate injuries. Then ONE kid who gets some face offs and did well...he WAS NOT RECRUITED AT ALL TO UVA AND WAS A TRANSFER WALK ON. Now count the rest...bench splinters in every other [lacrosse]. Long row of never played never will play unless it is UVA 19 - VMI 2. Varsity letter day.

Now look at the Hopkins roster. ONE MIAA kid (Fields) playing. Long row of benchers and several kids who couldn't cut it and just quit before the season even started (what's the Landon all-world goalie up to now??). Maryland has two kids from the DMV club scence cabal playing. An SSSAS kid who is going great and a MoCo public school kid who plays a little. Again, long row of DMV scene grads who warm that bench up real nice, including your all-world Met POY from last year.

Tearing it up?!? You're tearing me up with laughter. There might be 5 kids in the recruiting pipeline 2016-2019 now from Madlax, Crabs and BW who will feel a blade of field grass below their feet in a D1 program. That's not what a lacrosse mom or dad wants to hear -- but it is true. DMV lacrosse is vastly overrated and the college coaches who relied too heavily on it are already regretting it. And yes, I did play in college and I also have ex-college mates who are D1 assistants. They have absolutely nothing to say when guys like me tease on it...because I'm right. Calm down a little and let your sons develop and be happy. Whether or not they belong on a high level college field someday won't evidence itself until they are HS seniors. Back in the day -- you all of maybe 10 years ago -- that is wha it looked like and coaches used to recruit based on that. Nothin has changed except some coaches like Petro and Starsia have been fools, and now they are startin to pay the price for it in terms of perfrmance.

Look at the UVA roster of IAC, WCAC grads. Most played for Crabs, Blackwolf or Madlax. Now consider ONE of them plays some. Jack Falk...who is a real talent albeit a guy with unfortunate injuries. Then ONE kid who gets some face offs and did well...he WAS NOT RECRUITED AT ALL TO UVA AND WAS A TRANSFER WALK ON. Now count the rest...bench splinters in every other [lacrosse]. Long row of never played never will play unless it is UVA 19 - VMI 2. Varsity letter day.

Now look at the Hopkins roster. ONE MIAA kid (Fields) playing. Long row of benchers and several kids who couldn't cut it and just quit before the season even started (what's the Landon all-world goalie up to now??). Maryland has two kids from the DMV club scence cabal playing. An SSSAS kid who is going great and a MoCo public school kid who plays a little. Again, long row of DMV scene grads who warm that bench up real nice, including your all-world Met POY from last year.

Tearing it up?!? You're tearing me up with laughter. There might be 5 kids in the recruiting pipeline 2016-2019 now from Madlax, Crabs and BW who will feel a blade of field grass below their feet in a D1 program. That's not what a lacrosse mom or dad wants to hear -- but it is true. DMV lacrosse is vastly overrated and the college coaches who relied too heavily on it are already regretting it. And yes, I did play in college and I also have ex-college mates who are D1 assistants. They have absolutely nothing to say when guys like me tease on it...because I'm right. Calm down a little and let your sons develop and be happy. Whether or not they belong on a high level college field someday won't evidence itself until they are HS seniors. Back in the day -- you all of maybe 10 years ago -- that is wha it looked like and coaches used to recruit based on that. Nothin has changed except some coaches like Petro and Starsia have been fools, and now they are startin to pay the price for it in terms of perfrmance.

If the list were Madlax, BW and VLC the poster is spot on. Totally overrated. Balt Crabs have shown up more and better in college. Same point for IAC vs MIAA. IAC kids have rarely worked out at the next level in the recent 5-6 years. The IAC teams are good because they have 15-20 pretty good players, not because they have more than an occasional star. For prep leagues having a lot of pretty good kids makes a top team. My kids are older and my oldest is finishing his college career this spring. A lot has changed since he was recruited and all for the worse. DC area parents just seem to forget why kids want to try sports to begin with. Here's a hint: their reason wasn't to get noticed by a college coach. Here's another hint: what's most important to parents on this board are things a middle school age kids would never come up with on their own. Let your kid enjoy sports. It goes by fast and it isn't something any kid can get back later. So get out of their way and let them do that.

Madlax 2020
- not playing in HoCO

Madlax 2021
- 1-4. Tied for 2nd to last place. Will not make playoffs

Madlax 2022
- 2-3. 8th place. Will not make playoffs

Madlax 2023
- 1-3. 7th place. Will not make playoffs

Madlax 2024
- 4-0. 1st place. Will make playoffs

Did they miss the boat on the era of Holdbacks and prefirsts??
What has happened to Madlax?

Madlax 2020
- not playing in HoCO

Madlax 2021
- 1-4. Tied for 2nd to last place. Will not make playoffs

Madlax 2022
- 2-3. 8th place. Will not make playoffs

Madlax 2023
- 1-3. 7th place. Will not make playoffs

Madlax 2024
- 4-0. 1st place. Will make playoffs


What has happened to Madlax?

Madlax 2020
- not playing in HoCO

Madlax 2021
- 1-4. Tied for 2nd to last place. Will not make playoffs

Madlax 2022
- 2-3. 8th place. Will not make playoffs

Madlax 2023
- 1-3. 7th place. Will not make playoffs

Madlax 2024
- 4-0. 1st place. Will make playoffs


What has happened to Madlax?

I think you are right. BW and VLC have had superior HS teams for awhile now, but madlax had the youth market captured. But based on their 2020 and 2021 teams, that grip is slipping.

Sounds like they have a good 4th grade team but who knows if those kids stay together. Lots of options now for kids.

So that is the point you all are so proud of killing Madlax. You got your wish 5 Shi--y teams and not 2 really good ones. You win but what did you really get?