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Re: Long Island Yellow Jackets Lacrosse
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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Long Island has many good clubs. They understand that their role is the development and placement, including money, of their players. Most of them do a great job.

Getting into great schools is very difficult without it. I only know of only one high school where the coach helps regardless of club affiliation.

So go ahead and save your $2,000 and take your chances.
High School Lacrosse provides a better chance to be seen than High School Soccer or Basketball, particularly on Long Island, but the real recruitment still happens via these Lacrosse Clubs on Long Island. The annual fee is the cost of admission.

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So what you're saying is that all freshman are the same and get the same offer. Or, if they don't, their CONTRACT is renegotiated every year. If you are a top tier recruit, why would you agree to that? The fact is coaches tell the blue chippers that scholarships are not rescinded or reduced for lacrosse or even injury reasons, only disciplinary or academic reasons. If it s not a full offer, they tell them that they can only increase based on performance.

If the school does not honor that agreement, their word is diminished in a very small world. They will have difficulty making the next recruit who has many options to believe what they say is true. The top programs know that is a death sentence.

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Re: Long Island Yellow Jackets Lacrosse
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Originally Posted by Anonymous
So what you're saying is that all freshman are the same and get the same offer.
NCAA Rules and Regulations restrict the total number of Division I Lacrosse scholarships to 12.6 per men's team and 12.0 per women's team; it is the university's decision as to whether these programs are to be full funded to those levels. Given that most teams have more than 25 players, it is safe to say that the average award is a 0.5 scholarship or less. Since upper classmen will receive more than underclassmen, a freshman scholarship between 0.25 an 0.5 is a reasonable assumption.

Originally Posted by Anonymous
Or, if they don't, their CONTRACT is renegotiated every year.
Yes, each year the contract is renewed and dollar amounts can and will be adjusted up and down. If a player is not playing as the coach expected or if additional money is needed elsewhere in the program (to recruit a potential top freshman, transfer, or goalie), the coach can and will cut awards "for the benefit of the team".

Originally Posted by Anonymous
If you are a top tier recruit, why would you agree to that?
Why would you agree? Because such things happen AFTER you are already in the program with at least one year invested in the school and lacrosse team.

Originally Posted by Anonymous
The fact is coaches tell the blue chippers that scholarships are not rescinded or reduced for lacrosse or even injury reasons, only disciplinary or academic reasons. If it s not a full offer, they tell them that they can only increase based on performance.
That is the message you hear ENTERING a program. Many programs will follow this methodology, but not all.

Originally Posted by Anonymous
If the school does not honor that agreement, their word is diminished in a very small world. They will have difficulty making the next recruit who has many options to believe what they say is true. The top programs know that is a death sentence.
Key point is that how do incoming recruits find out about a deal "reneg"? How does that information get disseminated? There are very few forums like Back of the Cage where such cuts would gain visibility. Do you think a player who just had his/her award cut is going to stand up and say, "Hey World, look at me, my coach just took back money?"

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Re: Long Island Yellow Jackets Lacrosse
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You sound like you're coming from the front line and your experience is very valuable. Are you? Can you share your background with us?

If what you say is true, it would seem at least ethical that the coach be very clear that the scholarship offer had performance risk and was contingent and adjusted annually based on the coach's annual comparsion against her teammates. How does a family budget for that?

What if the kid wanted to pursue an academic or music scholarship at an Ivy League school instead, but made her school decision based on the perception of a strong sports offer? That lack of disclosure could be damaging.


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Re: Long Island Yellow Jackets Lacrosse
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Originally Posted by Anonymous
You sound like you're coming from the front line and your experience is very valuable. Are you? Can you share your background with us?
With many years of experience on the athletic college recruitment scene in both soccer and lacrosse, the experiences that we share here on BOTC are based on real-life student-athlete placements. Personally, I have been involved in the placement of more than 40 student-athletes for Varsity Collegiate Sports. Note that we cover many of these topics on the BOTC Lacrosse College Recruitment Forum. We have also been hosting a similar dialogue for the last three years on our sister site, Back of the Net, dealing with Soccer College Recruitment.

Originally Posted by Anonymous
If what you say is true, it would seem at least ethical that the coach be very clear that the scholarship offer had performance risk and was contingent and adjusted annually based on the coach's annual comparsion against her teammates. How does a family budget for that?
Guarding against the risk of a decreased athletic stipend is a very difficult proposition. Often with an academic scholarship, the student can tell based on grading trends that an award is at risk. Similar with a grant that might come from a financially challenged source.

In the athletic space, keeping good communication with the coach is critical. Each student-athlete should be having a sit-down with their college coach at the close of each season to understand the upcoming year's financial package along with any augmentation (or decreases) in funding. This provides some period (May through August) wherein the family can craft a plan to cover any financial shortfalls. Remember this is the exception more than the rule.

Originally Posted by Anonymous
What if the kid wanted to pursue an academic or music scholarship at an Ivy League school instead, but made her school decision based on the perception of a strong sports offer? That lack of disclosure could be damaging.
First rule : Ivy League schools do not provide merit awards. Second rule : Ivy League schools do not provide music scholarships at an undergraduate level for an entering student.

Now, with those misconceptions swept aside, let's come to the issue at hand. Ultimately, the student-athlete will be making the choice as to whether Varsity Collegiate Sports will be part of their four year experience or not. That question usually is answered first by the student-athlete before the money question is addressed. BOTC Industries strongly recommends that student-athletes look at their college prospects from a financial and academic perspective first and foremost. A sports injury could completely change your ability to participate in athletic competition, but academic success is a primary reason that you are at a University to start.

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Re: Long Island Yellow Jackets Lacrosse
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when you wrote, "Remember this is the exception more than the rule" to mean that few schools adjust athletic grants downward?

If yes, it would seem that is a simple question for parents or athletes to clarify.

Your earlier post stated that an athlete would be too proud to broadcast that their college reneged on their deal. If the athlete went to their high school club and/or school coach and quietly informed them, do you think that same coach could allow a future athlete to accept an offer from that college without informing them about the the prior reneging? Some girls can be program changers. Aside from the ethical issues, do you think that is a good business risk? They may never know why they lost a program changer in a recruiting battle.


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Re: Long Island Yellow Jackets Lacrosse
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Originally Posted by Anonymous
when you wrote, "Remember this is the exception more than the rule" to mean that few schools adjust athletic grants downward? If yes, it would seem that is a simple question for parents or athletes to clarify.
Yes. While we have spent a couple of posts talking about the downgrading of awards, it is the exception rather than the rule. Among the 40+ placements that we mentioned earlier, I have seen this happen twice and it has been reported on our sister soccer site several times. The analysis there provides a great deal of soccer insight directly applicable to our Lacrosse community.

Originally Posted by Anonymous
Your earlier post stated that an athlete would be too proud to broadcast that their college reneged on their deal. If the athlete went to their high school club and/or school coach and quietly informed them, do you think that same coach could allow a future athlete to accept an offer from that college without informing them about the the prior reneging?
The player with a downgraded award would be a rising sophomore or rising junior (typically). These student-athletes are typically now several years past their high school teachers. However, the number of high school coaches that maintain any type of serious weight with recruiting traffic can be counted on one hand in the Long Island area.

Originally Posted by Anonymous
Some girls can be program changers. Aside from the ethical issues, do you think that is a good business risk? They may never know why they lost a program changer in a recruiting battle.
Program changers are never the ones that experience a stipend cut without having some attitude or work-habits problems.

On the ethics question, the "sports" deal is for one year. If the awards changes, that is not a question of ethics, but one of pure economics. Now, if the player/family take the coach's full ride comment as gospel, that is a problem with educating the lacrosse community on the risks of the promised "full ride".

Again, the point of jumping into this thread is to provide some clarity on the subject. Let's allow this thread to continue to discuss the Yellow Jackets and we can continue this Lacrosse Scholarship discussion on the BOTC College Board. Sound good?

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Re: Long Island Yellow Jackets Lacrosse
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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Many questions are being asked about the 2012 Blue team - the one handled by Carol Rose herself (of reported Northport High School fame). Are these kids really the ones getting the top attention from college coaches?


As Coach Rose's team list grows it appears the answer to your question is YES. The list is IMPRESSIVE

Long Island Elite Yellow Jackets Class of 2012 Verbal Commitments

Blue: Michaela Aymong (Northport) Richmond
Blue: 2013 Maggie Bill ( St Anthony’s) UNC
Blue: Katie Boden (Shoreham) UMass
Blue: Paige Bonomi (Northport) USC
Blue: Courtney Boyd (Locust Valley) Louisville
Blue: Alexandra Bruno (Garden City) Princeton
Blue: Nicole Dangellis ( Smithtown East) Yale
East: Dene Demartino (Eastport) Hopkins
Blue: Caroline Delyra (Bayshore) USC
Blue: Catherine Dickinson (Garden City) UPenn
Blue: Christina Esposito (West Babylon) Northwestern
Blue: Jenna Fuchs (Garden City) Fairfield
Green: Meghan Gulmi (Syosset) Cinncinati
Green/Gold: Emily Lucas (Island Trees) Monmouth
Blue: Emily Maier (Sayville) High Point
Blue/Gold: Megan McDonald (Garden City) Georgetown
Blue: Darcy Messina (St Anthonys) Florida
Blue: Taylor Rantfle (Hauppauge) UVA
Blue/Gold: Kelly Anne Sherlock (Cold Spring) Yale
Blue: Chelsey Sidaras (Floyd) Fairfield
Gold: Jenna Vinci (Hauppauge) Binghampton



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Re: Long Island Yellow Jackets Lacrosse
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Can anyone share any information about the Hornets, the Yellow Jackets developmental program? We have a second grader that seems to really like the game and thought that the Hornets would be a good idea. Anyone with experience?

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Can anyone share any information about the Hornets, the Yellow Jackets developmental program? We have a second grader that seems to really like the game and thought that the Hornets would be a good idea. Anyone with experience?


Very overpriced

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Re: Long Island Yellow Jackets Lacrosse
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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Can anyone share any information about the Hornets, the Yellow Jackets developmental program? We have a second grader that seems to really like the game and thought that the Hornets would be a good idea. Anyone with experience?

Very overpriced
Any more details? Why overpriced? (Actually, we cannot even find the pricing online.)

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Can anyone share any information about the Hornets, the Yellow Jackets developmental program? We have a second grader that seems to really like the game and thought that the Hornets would be a good idea. Anyone with experience?

Very overpriced
Any more details? Why overpriced? (Actually, we cannot even find the pricing online.)


It is $350 for six sessions of instruction and some other things, grade 3 -5, click on yellow jackets link to the right here, then on main page click on hornets for more info.

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Re: Long Island Yellow Jackets Lacrosse
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My daughter played last season and loved it! Very instructional by world cup player who had really good college kids with her. They played at long island elite tourney with the older kids and had a blast! 350 well worth it for the ELITE instruction. Learned alot. The basic foundation is key to successs

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Re: Long Island Yellow Jackets Lacrosse
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Maybe the best 350 I have spent in a while they at least know what they are doing!!

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Does anyone have any feedback or experience with the Long Island Pride Girls Lacrosse league?

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Re: Long Island Yellow Jackets Lacrosse
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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Does anyone have any feedback or experience with the Long Island Pride Girls Lacrosse league?
If you are talking about the Pride club team, you can find a thread dedicated to the program by clicking here for the BOTC Thread.

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Re: Long Island Yellow Jackets Lacrosse
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no the yellow jackets feeder program the hornet

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
no the yellow jackets feeder program the hornet


The girls who are playing Yellow Jackets in 5th and 6th grade are not really the best athletes available. Maybe one
is, the rest are just girls whose parents have heard about the program or have older sisters involved. Yellow Jackets should have the guts to cut these girls or move them to lower teams as the better athletes come on board.

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
no the yellow jackets feeder program the hornet


The girls who are playing Yellow Jackets in 5th and 6th grade are not really the best athletes available. Maybe one
is, the rest are just girls whose parents have heard about the program or have older sisters involved. Yellow Jackets should have the guts to cut these girls or move them to lower teams as the better athletes come on board.

My daughter plays on the 8th grade Blue team. Of the 22 or so girls on the team 75% of them have been playing on yellow Jacket since 5th grade. Of these 8th graders at least 7 are starting on their varsity high school teams and they are awesome athletes!!

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
no the yellow jackets feeder program the hornet


The girls who are playing Yellow Jackets in 5th and 6th grade are not really the best athletes available. Maybe one
is, the rest are just girls whose parents have heard about the program or have older sisters involved. Yellow Jackets should have the guts to cut these girls or move them to lower teams as the better athletes come on board.

My daughter plays on the 8th grade Blue team. Of the 22 or so girls on the team 75% of them have been playing on yellow Jacket since 5th grade. Of these 8th graders at least 7 are starting on their varsity high school teams and they are awesome athletes!!



isn't that the point, most girl's are playing since 5th grade, many are there by default. If they have enough girls that are good then they can keep a couple that really don't belong just to make the parents happy or because the coach is a friend or more likely the coachees daughter is a friend.. Meanwhile if an 8th grade girl is playing hs varsity then her school probably does not have a very strong team or many athletes to choose from. In our town, the very best 8th grader does not play even jv. They play middle school. It really is relavent. im glad that this is all behind me.

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Re: Long Island Yellow Jackets Lacrosse
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8th graders that play on varsity are not playing that much. My daughter would rather play on her own team or JV and PLAY and do well! Than just be able to say "I'm in 8th gr. and play varsity ...but sit on the bench!

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Originally Posted by Mthg897
8th graders that play on varsity are not playing that much. My daughter would rather play on her own team or JV and PLAY and do well! Than just be able to say "I'm in 8th gr. and play varsity ...but sit on the bench!


Not sure what schol district you are talking about but the girls on my daughter's yellow jacket team play and START for Mt. Sinai, Smithtown, ESM, Middle Country, Calhoun, Cold Spring Harbor, etc. Some districts like Sayville, Garden City, Manhasset etc wont bring up girls in 7th or 8th grade so that doesnt happen.

I agree with you totally, I wouldn't have my girl brought up if she was going to sit. Thats why you communicate with the coach first so you know their expectations.

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Re: Long Island Yellow Jackets Lacrosse
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Not True, most AD's will not allow an 8th grader on a varsity team unless they will see substancial playing time.

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Not True, most AD's will not allow an 8th grader on a varsity team unless they will see substancial playing time.


If your best players are 8th graders you got big problems.

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Not True, most AD's will not allow an 8th grader on a varsity team unless they will see substancial playing time.


If your best players are 8th graders you got big problems.


No one said best players, merely said they don't get brought up to sit on bench and have their picture in yearbook. They contribute to the team and the other upper-classman.

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Great job by the Mt. Sinai coaches for not entering their 6th grade team into the Wounded Warrior tournament. Instead, the coaches take their own kids to play in the tournament with Yellow Jackets while leaving the rest of us behind. If I hear them talk about being "One Family" one more time I'll vomit. Unfortunately this has to be posted anonymously because the politics/agendas in this program are nauseating.

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Re: Long Island Yellow Jackets Lacrosse
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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Great job by the Mt. Sinai coaches for not entering their 6th grade team into the Wounded Warrior tournament. Instead, the coaches take their own kids to play in the tournament with Yellow Jackets while leaving the rest of us behind. If I hear them talk about being "One Family" one more time I'll vomit. Unfortunately this has to be posted anonymously because the politics/agendas in this program are nauseating.
Several points here are worth noting.

First, this is not an issue for the Yellow Jackets Sixth Grade Blue and Gold teams. Your Mount Sinai coaches are involved with two programs (town and elite) where clearly the Yellow Jackets had already entered the Wounded Warrior event. Perhaps now is the time to talk about what their Spring plans might be?

Second, the Wounded Warrior is a Charity Event and worthy of our support for a great cause. BOTC wishes that they had contacted us about this event if they needed advertising support.

Third, if you look at the schedules, there certainly was field space to get another Sixth Grade team into the bracket. Did any parent from those left behind ask if they could take the team into this event?

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First, if the Mt. Sinai coaches entered their daughters with the Yellow Jackets to play, they certainly had the opportunity to enter the town team as well.
Second, I only found out about this opportunity last night as the coaches never mentioned this as a possibility to the rest of the girls. I feel that they have gone behind our backs to include only those they deem "worthy"
Third, if their priority is the Yellow Jackets, that's fine. Just don't hand me the "one Family" BS when you leave the majority behind when it suits you. There are plenty of opportunities to play in Yellow Jacket tournaments at the end of the season. This would have been a great opportunity to prepare the girls for the upcoming season as many of the other town teams are doing.
Lastly, I get that this is a charity event. I would have been more than happy to pay my share if I had been offered the opportunity

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Re: Long Island Yellow Jackets Lacrosse
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Originally Posted by Anonymous
First, if the Mt. Sinai coaches entered their daughters with the Yellow Jackets to play, they certainly had the opportunity to enter the town team as well.
Second, I only found out about this opportunity last night as the coaches never mentioned this as a possibility to the rest of the girls. I feel that they have gone behind our backs to include only those they deem "worthy"
Third, if their priority is the Yellow Jackets, that's fine. Just don't hand me the "one Family" BS when you leave the majority behind when it suits you. There are plenty of opportunities to play in Yellow Jacket tournaments at the end of the season. This would have been a great opportunity to prepare the girls for the upcoming season as many of the other town teams are doing.
Lastly, I get that this is a charity event. I would have been more than happy to pay my share if I had been offered the opportunity
Back of the Cage had been adding threads for some of the town Spring 20111 leagues : Oyster Bay, Suffolk County Girls (grades 4, 5, 6, 7/8), and Long Island Senior Girls Youth Lacrosse League. Are there any other leagues that you would like to see covered?

As for your points here poster, we hear you - this is a case where the coach(es) have not told everyone the same bits of information and as a result, some players are now left out. This is a question of leadership for the Mount Sinai program and certainly something worthy of a team discussion.

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Great job by the Mt. Sinai coaches for not entering their 6th grade team into the Wounded Warrior tournament. Instead, the coaches take their own kids to play in the tournament with Yellow Jackets while leaving the rest of us behind. If I hear them talk about being "One Family" one more time I'll vomit. Unfortunately this has to be posted anonymously because the politics/agendas in this program are nauseating.


Yellow jackets pays the bills. If you want your kid to play, put them on yellow jackets.

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Re: Long Island Yellow Jackets Lacrosse
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This is a big problem with youth sports especially on Long isaland.This biggest complainers are from the parents of the kids that are NOT athletic and are going nowhere in sports! Who is sticking up for the few very athletic skilled kids who take sports very seriously and perhaps will take a sport or two to the next level(high school/college).What are the towns doing to help the good kids,, NOTHING! making them play with the kids that are not athletic thats sickening!.Maybe your coach feels that his kid will get better playing with better kids, they are not getting better playing with kids that are not good at sports.The YellowJackets are a wonderful organization helping very talented athletic girls get better and taking them to the next level.If your so concerned about the girls left behind than want don't YOU coach them(waste of time).his is a priblem with all the sports on Long Island.

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The town programs are doing what they are intended to do. They are offering a program for ALL of their youth to participate. Beyond that,for those who want to participate above and beyond their town teams, are programs such as the Yellow Jackets. Keep in mind that there are many 6th grade girls who are as good or better than those who currently play in these "elite" programs. They may be either multi-sport athletes, not ready to travel to 5 or 6 tournaments, or may not want to make the $3000 commitment yet.
This is not about who is "sticking up for the better athletes".
The better athletes have plenty of opportunities to participate with and against "worthy" competition during the summer tournament season.. This is about coaches doing the right thing by all of the girls on the team, not just their own. This was a tournament that the Mt. Sinai team could have and should have participated in. Shame on the coaches for being so selfish as to deny those girls this opportunity and shame on any other coaches who may have chosen to do so as well.

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Why don't You coach the girls from Mount Sinai. Most of the girls on the YJ are multi sport athletes and there are NOT many girls on Long Island that are better than the girls on the YJ blue teams.Athletic girls playing together during the winter will help them be more competitive during the summer.The MS coaches did a great job volunteering there time coaching MS lax during this past winter.YJ is NOT $3000 and they travel maybe 3 times out of town and 3 times local.So why don't You get off the couch and coach these non athletic girls.It great to see that there are some people out there that are focused on the very athletic kid and not scared of the word COMPETITION which the town teams people are afraid of! Competition is good, it builds character and helps kids get to where they want to go in life whether the town people like it or not.

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Heard Yellow Jackets Organization paid for all the YJ Teams for Wounded Warrior Tourney as a donation!! Why not participate especially when ya did not have to pay!! Dont blame the Mt Sinai coaches for YJ organization for entering teams.

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Wow and I thought boys lax could be cutthroat..oof. I have heard this debate over and over through the years. When your child; whether a girl or boy signs up for town team lax, you have the right to expect just that from the coaches. What the coaches participate in during other times is of none of any town team paremts or players concern. You are by no means entilitled to anything that is not town team practice or town team games. My sons town team recently played in the shamrock m at the suggestion of some of the parents..but if the coach had a commitment to another team that day, it has nothing to do with our town team. Sometimes we as parents lose sight of why we are spending our time with our kids on the lax field...it is supposed to be fun for the kids, select teams are supposed to be fun too, just because our kids play for elite teams this does not make the kid or especially the parents any better of a person. I too often see some parent who has a talented 11 year old somehow feel this gives them a higher status on the sideline. I say if you are defining yourself by the success of a childs sport you need to do a bit of reflection and re prioritize a bit.

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Sorry, but I just can't buy that argument. When girls are encouraged/expected to participate in winter leagues, indoor practice, and stick skills training over the winter, I would like to think that when there is a tournament being played two weeks before the season that they would be given the opportunity to participate. Again, this is months removed from the Yellow Jacket tournament season. There were a dozen other town teams involved in this age group. The true agenda of the coach is clear to those who are paying attention. If you are going to take on the responsibility of administrator/coach, then have the balls to do the right thing for ALL the girls, not just your own. This is the last I'll post on this subject. I look forward to reading more comments on how we should not be wasting our time with those rotten 12 year olds who are not yet dedicating their lives to lacrosse.

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The Mount Sinai Coaches, as well as Admin., went back and forth with the choice to attempt to put the MS teams in the Tourney. There would have been many schedualing conflicts so the choice was "not to". The YJ players (that also play MS Youth) were Rostered for this Tourney a month ago. Could they have played both, as they do many other times? Yes, but it wasn't feasible, too many conflicts for them to play the 8 games. Okay, so you say field the team without them...That was attempted on paper. There would NOT HAVE BEEN enough players to field a team even if ALL MS PLAYERS showed (which is never the case). All the planning behind the scenes could not have made it happen. Trust me, the attempt was made!! No conspiracy, "nothing behind your backs". No one was left behind, it was a logistics "choice".

Spring prepardness?? You yourself said that the MS girls had (16) weeks of winter game sessions and stick training afforded to them... ALOT more than other organizations do during the off season! Then parents complain that "its too much...this isn't Lacrosse season..its winter!" Which is it, too much or not enough??

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I think this forum has turned into a shining example of what happens when parents get nuts over youth sports. Just let the kids play when they can and enjoy the sport...parents need to step back and make sure the conflict and debate that is supposed to be "about the kids" isn't spoiling the fun that the love of the game is supposed to be.
Youth lax has turned into a soap opera with over involved parents as the actors and sad to say, but too often the players and the sport become background static that is only there to produce more drama for the parents to quip about. Just let the kids play, play to win and enjoy the time they have with their teammates. Its not about you its about them.

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Very well put!!

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I say seperate the gifted athletic kids from the non athletic kids early.The only thing the athletic kids get when playing with the nonathletic kid is FRUSTRATION!Throwing the ball to a non athletic kid and watching it roll away, is that fun for the athletic kid?! I say the father of a non athletic kid should be man enough and take on the team of non athletes so they all could have fun being comical on the lax field and look forward to ralph's ices , talking about the boys and looking forward to there next dance rehearsel.Lets do more for the talented athlete!

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