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Simplistic straw man argument. FOGO is over rated position. Put a good pole at the faceoff x and turn the faceoff into a ground ball drill.....exciting....sorry its not. I will take tough defenders/good goalie over a low skill FOGO......again GO....GET OFF. There is a reason they want the player off the field

As stated...FOGO is over rated. A "top" FOGO does not help a bad team.......FOGO's need a good team to be important. The spot should be eliminated. A good pole will neutralize most FOGO's (poor lax player). Sorry if the truth hurts. As far as exciting....cmon man...its a ground ball drill. Its happens all over the field all game long.

I'll keep it simple for you...you're wrong

Ummm - if that was true, every big time team in college would put a pole on the FOGOs and they would be meaningless. Yet, the top FOGOs against the best competition continue to dominate and make their teams better. SMH

The teams with the 2 best fogos in college got eliminated in the semi finals of the national championship weekend go figure

FOGO's give you the chance to win. If you do not have the ball you have no chance of winning.

Just wondering. At the shootout for soldiers charity event ,where did the money go to in the B M memorial game. I'm guessing it was pocketed as it wasn't sanctioned by anyone related to the brave hero who protects us. And why can't he be left alone

Hmmm ask Chaminade about that. They won almost every face off but lost to St. Ignatius.

Perhaps ask wm also, they won all the face offs and that was a big reason for their comeback in the state finals - at least that is what all the articles written about the game indicate.

I suspect it can't be left alone for that exact reason . His name is being exploited and the memorial will become nothing more than an easy way to make a couple bucks at the cost of his life, it's a shame, where does the money go?

College fogo in NCAA championship were among the best in the country - both md and Ohio have top notch players.

Can't win in this sport without a top fogo and top goalie.

NaySayers are living in the past. Whether or not you like fogo or face offs doesn't matter. For now they are one of the most important positions on the field and recruited accordingly.

The long pole against a top fogo is like the prevent defense in football. Sounds like a good idea, but it reality it is a recipe for failure.

1 Trevor Baptiste Denver Jr. 17 297 102 399 433 .744
2 TD Ierlan Albany (NY) Fr. 18 323 133 456 509 .708
3 Brady Dove Navy Sr. 14 169 85 254 310 .665
4 Jake Withers Ohio St. Sr. 21 275 150 425 486 .647
5 Dan Grabher Army West Point Sr. 15 186 110 296 352 .628
6 Gerard Arceri Penn St. --- 15 195 122 317 442 .615
7 Dylan Protesto Hartford Jr. 11 155 99 254 352 .610
8 Conor Gaffney Lehigh Fr. 12 139 89 228 322 .610
9 Noah Rak Massachusetts Jr. 12 148 96 244 335 .607
10 Conor Mackie Yale Jr. 16 246 162 408 433 .603
11 Ted Ottens Brown Jr. 16 270 182 452 488 .597
12 Peter Moran Richmond Sr. 16 185 128 313 319 .591
13 Alex Woodall Towson So. 17 188 131 319 347 .589
14 Will Vitelli Quinnipiac So. 11 119 83 202 268 .589
15 Kenny Massa Bryant Jr. 19 222 158 380 404 .584
16 Kyle Rowe Duke Sr. 17 214 153 367 450 .583
17 Trent Harper Air Force Fr. 18 178 129 307 406 .580
18 Graham Savio Loyola Maryland Sr. 16 204 149 353 385 .578
19 Danny Manning Saint Joseph's Sr. 14 149 110 259 311 .575
20 Will Beecham Mercer

OSU fogo #4-They lost to Maryland whose fogo was not in top 20
Denver fogo #1-How did they do again
Towson fogo #13
Albany fogo #2-Maryland spanks them.


Sorry, the idea that the FOGO position is of critical importance is not real. The stats/records etc just doesn't support that idea.

Did you look up the stats in the Maryland Quarters vs Albany, Semis vs Denver and Finals vs Ohio St. Here is the Bio on Jon Garino the 5th year Sr who was the key to Terps NCAA Championship. He's not ranked because he didn't take enough draws throughout the season. "won 12-of-14 faceoffs, including first seven attempts, and had eight ground balls in NCAA quarterfinal vs. #4 Albany (5/21) ... won 3-of-6 faceoffs in NCAA semifinal vs. #5 Denver (5/27) ... won 10-of-14 faceoffs, including 8-of-10 in the second half, in NCAA final win vs. #3 Ohio State (5/29)."

You my man are a moron who knows less than zero about the game and I would imagine your kid is a below average player with poor Lax IQ and plays for a crap HS and a crappier club team.

The only way to bring back coach Doller is to organize the Sayville lacrosse parents to approach the school district to rehire Coach Doller. Everything else is a waste of time. We weren't there for him when needed most and now we NEED him back. Its time to make a concerted effort to request that the school district rehire Coach Doller to restore Sayville lacrosse to its former standing.

MD won the faceoffs 11-8 hardly overwhelming. MD Won GB 33-25....now that's more important. Your comment about the kid......you lose the argument there Jacka$$. Only losers make comments about kids. I will let my Ivy kid know he plays for and played on crap teams. Have a great day.

Not talking about academics and its great if in fact your kid is a verbal or attending in IVY (doubt it). The topic was the importance of face-offs in college lacrosse. But you can't float out there your kid is an IVY guy and that translates into good lacrosse or lacrosse knowledge, most IVY's stink so it's great for your kid and you but don't spew your moronic perceptions to the readers please. For the record Garino going 8/10 in second half verse the most dangerous face-off guy(a Canadian with sick stick skills) in college was huge. Btw were you at the NCAA finals or did you even watch it because Garino was the MVP of the Championship game..

Nice try....at half time score was 5-2 MD and the face-off battle....6-3 OSU at half. Moronic perception or fact???? Those are the facts. The only person spewing moronic perceptions is you stating the Ivy league "stinks". But that's OK. Your insults only show your lack of ability to think rationally. Good luck to your FOGO son.

This is regarding the discussion regarding FOGOs. I believe many people base the importance of a FOGO on youth lacrosse. In the youth game a great FOGO can 100% change the outcome of the game. Most FOGOs are great athletes and at a young age they can dominate the game. They face off and play a large percentage of the game as a middy. As teams get better and as players mature a great FOGO gets the possessions but thats it. Usually coaches want to preserve their FOGO so that is why a vast majority are Face Off Get Off. Being a FOGO is one of the most physically and mentally demanding positions on the field. Thats why it is so rare to find a FOGO that takes every face off and plays a lot at an elite level. There are exceptions to the rule. Yet I dont feel as if a FOGO is the most important player on the filed. You can neutralize a FOGO with a great pole at the face off X. Once they get the ball they get rid of it. Yes there are some FOGOs that will go to net and score but again one adjustment by the other team dropping a wing man to the bottom of the defensive side to prevent the break. You cant neutralize a goalie. A goalie has to be able to save the ball. If a FOGO doesnt win his face off there are the midfielders and the defense that the other team needs to get through before they can actually score. If a goalie doesn't do his job its a goal. Give me a team that has a great FOGO and a bad goalie and you will see them lose more than they win. Take a team with a horrible FOGO and a great goalie they probably win more than they lose. I will use the the St. Ignatius game vs Chaminade as an example. St. Ignatius lost almost every face off but won the game. If the faceoff was the determining factor Chaminade should have won by a lot.

Conversation started as a simple idea-original poster asked which returning players would help their teams-fogo was the first position to be discussed-about 7 or 8 boys were mentioned by name.

Then the guy with the ivy kid decided to derail the conversation and spew on about all the low skill cheating fogos...what was funny about this -lets call him "IVY" guy-gets all offended when someone picks on his ivy kid-a kid that wasn't named, all while he is calling the 7 or 8 kids that were named, low skill cheaters...

a sure sign of an insecure adult. suspect his kid wont ever be mentioned in the weeks to come because his kid is just not that good. suspect their is no IVY verbal. Ivy guy is likely a person complaining that his son should be playing more but for local politics and bad coaches and bad parents...

Huh???.......what are you talking about.

Huh?????....what are you blabbing about

Face off is highly important. The person trying to minimize that fact is missing the point. The more possessions your team has the more chances they are going to have to score. There is no debate. Are there statistical outliers where teams have won and not had a dominant face off guy, sure...but fact remains the same.

And for the jerk who made all the assumptions about some guys son, grow up. You are way off topic and there really is no logical connections for you to make those assumptions to begin with. Stick with your strong F/O argument.

Excellent point-yes, my comment was in poor taste- apologies to ivy guy's kid...

Try and keep up . . .

"There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics." - I personally do not like the face off winning percentage because a lot of "draws" are controlled by one guy but for a verity of reasons (wing play, - missed ground ball - controlling the draw but sending the ball to the wrong area) - a great fogo is like pornography you can't always define it but you know it when you see it. If fogo "A" wins 50% but they are all clean wins that lead to breakaways and scoring opportunities and fogo "B" wins 56% but every face off is a battle and a ground ball war and usually picked up by his wing who is the better FOGO? I would bet most coaches would rather have the guy that is creating a bunch of scoring opportunities.

Another part of the equation is when is he winning and losing his face offs? is he stopping momentum? is he leading a comeback? does he go 70% in the first quarter and then 30% in the fourth when he has been figured out? Also what kind of tempo does his team like to play? a grinding defense may not depend as much on a fogo as a run and gun team that is getting into shoot outs and have a lot more face offs in a game.

All I am trying to say it that face off is a very important position but any argument made about how important or unimportant can have to valid arguments with no right or wrong answer just opinions.

Anyone know who is applying for HHH HS
East Varsity Coaching job? Hodg$on is leaving after 20+ years. Great coach, strong program. They need another good coach to apply and take over that program.

Lacrosse is generally a possession game - faceoff wins lead to possession, and you cannot score without the ball. No coach will turn down an opportunity for increased possession, easily won or hard fought!

End of the day the MVP of the NCAA Championship game was a face off midfielder from Maryland and may I add not a carry the ball in the back of his stick guy or even a one knee guy. It has been said in face off circles "what was old is new again" so the traditionalists of the game can rest assured the face off midfielder must be able to pick up a ground ball. As for the IVY guy your really just a tool who has little or no concept of what wins or losses games at the college level and until your alleged IVY son plays in a D1 setting keep it down to a hush because the parents of the supposed IVY school will not want to hear your drivel in the stands.

He couldn't carry the ball in the back of his stick because it's illegal. Some days guys just don't match up well with their opponent at the X that's why it's important to have multiple players who can face off.

Enjoy watching other parents players play college lax and make believe your kid is playing. See ya

I have a college fogo and very much enjoy watching him play...better than that-so do his teammates. gets to score, gets ground balls and guess what, even gets to play defense sometimes when losing a draw.

whether or not parents here like the position or the rules, I can tell you that all the coaches that recruited mine like fogo and the team respects the contribution and the work ethic.

Something you might not be aware of and is not on topic-but-for the rest it might be of interest-

of the 45 man roster, average 15 play consistently with another 3 much more sporadic based upon match ups. But I will humor the last commentator and say another 5-10 kids out of 45 may actually play in a game or two for a few minutes during the year-when the team is winning or losing by a substantial amount.

another tidbit-

-not every kid that is on the 45 man roster even gets to travel. several schools (not all but several) only travel with 35, which means 10 boys don't even get to go...hotel rooms and flights and meals and per Diem add up and not all boys get to go on the trip.

then you have the schools with 50 + kids and the travel with the team and playing time gets worse. sorry folks-d-1 lax isn't all butterflies and rainbows. kids have a full time job and are expected to act like it even if they don't step on the field during a real game.

unless your kid is a stud-or is special and blossoms late and becomes a stud-

about half of all d-1 lax parents are watching other parent's kids play. And for some schools (not all), if your kid is on the bottom of the depth chart, you don't even get to travel to watch...

but go ahead-pick on my fogo and his value or lack thereof. He having the time of his life and I am enjoying watching...

great post - enjoy watching your son, it goes by fast

Hey IVY guy come to College Park on Sept.30 and watch OUR kids get a ring and see how we watch and root for other parents kids.You are an absolute tool who I can't fathom has a kid going D1 IVY and you will see how quick you or your kid gets chased from the school if the coach sees what a jerk you are.
'

Ok Fantasy guy.....Mr Roarke and Tattoo called. Your little College Park fantasy is over. Be honest, you wouldn't know a PAL championship from a National Championship. And who is we, oh I know, its you and the mouse in your pocket that took your little drive to the game. I'm sure you wear all your make believe swag and have the little stickers on your car. Speaking of tools....How was talking lax by the water fountain??. Are you the authority there like you pretend to be here. Probably not....your the loudmouth expert on the sidelines of PAL games telling everyone who is forced to listen to you about all you know. Go away troll and take your meds and put the ipad away.

Great point, the MD fogo who beat Withers handily was actually the backup to the Northport kid, who didn't have a great year, just had a tough time, not that he's not good. There is just so much people don't understand about this position. It's extremely mental. Look at Baptiste who choked when his team needed him, and Ireland who was owned by Mackie. These fogos are all the heart of their teams, the way they play often is the difference of winning or losing. A lot of pressure for a young man. Please respect them win or lose, nobody on the team works harder! You should also know that there is a great deal of respect these young men have for each other, most of them are friends off the field and even practice together during the summer.

Send your address to the moderator and I will gladly buy you a seat for the alumni game and the ring ceremony luncheon
and we will see who the fraud is IVY guy. In College Park it is never ME it's WE and that goes for the parents too who cheer and root for each others kids. You are a bad guy and I feel sorry for the parents where your kid ends up.

Is anyone willing to organize support to bring back Coach Doller, they guy won't beg for his job back. Or, will everyone in Sayville continue to whine about how it was a HUGE mistake to hire another coach? What's it going to be? Get proactive and restore (hopefully if he accepts a rehire) Sayville's lacrosse tradition or [lacrosse] and moan for the next 10 years? What's it going to be?

Not happening, can't spend your career waiting for the axe to fall again. Its over, look for a new guy?

Why is it all the coaches fault that Sayville is no good. I do believe that it still takes hard work, determination and talent to win!! You cannot just say because the past teams were good that the team should always be good. Maybe the talent is just not there. Sayville has and had a lot of tough athletic kids in the past. Maybe the past teams were very athletic and that any coach even a donkey from West Islip who never played the game in his life could do just enough to look good as a coach and line his pockets with Sayvilles money. MAYBE!!!!!

Do you live in Sayville? The talent is there. Line his pockets? Could you be any more misinformed? You must be one of the scorned who helped get him removed. You are entitled to your opinion but please try to come close to the truth. I have no doubt if money was the determining factor in his decision making, he would have walked away from coaching in Sayville long ago. I have yet to see a coach as committed to a program's success as Coach Doller. He founded the lacrosse program. "Do just enough to look good" Are you seriously question the mans commitment to the program and the players? My two sons would love to have a word with you to explain just what he meant to them and still does. How very sad, really.