US Lacrosse Community Forum Forums NORTHEAST LACROSSE BOTC MAIN FORUM (LI, CT, WC) Boys 2023 - 6th Grade Fall 2016/ Summer 2017

You all need to get over it. None of you won or lost anything. You don't play!!! No wonder kids are [lacrosse]holes on the field, look at how you all behave. Winning a 6th grade tournament isnt getting little Johnny in to college. Let the kids play and enjoy the game no matter what tea m they are on! You are bashing children and coaches. If any of you could do a better job coaching go right ahead. Get over yourselves. In 5 years nobody will care who the best team was in 6th grade!

Any reason why tourney Machine doesn't post the playoff results for any division ? Could it be because 91 didn't win ?

Exactly

SO TRUE !!

That's the crazy part with some of the things that occur how do we allow it as parents. 14 year olds playing 2023 is top of the list. "Yes son you lost they cheated but it's ok . Feel like every year something like this happens at Lax Fest

How many times do you have to be told the truth - the kid is 12 yrs. old & turning 13 this summer. Save your complaints & whining when & if you ever play a top team from MD. or Boston which truly do have 14 year olds.

It's not technically breaking rules unless he wasn't in 6th grade this past year. Besides competing against this boy with my OLDER boy we all know he is much older and what people are saying is accurate it was evident watching this weekend. He was a man against boys and being that his parents aren't very big do the math. Express parents had No problem telling the truth on the sideline

TB would never survive a tournament in Maryland or Boston. If they played the Crabs they would crash BOTC. I guess they are surprised what happens in the A brackets. Get use to it or go back to the B brackets because no one cares enough to cheat in those brackets.

It's not just Laxfest it's travel lacrosse

"using a 14 year old boy vs. our team" . So that one boy played the entire team??? Wow. He must be really good.

So when you play your full roster you don't win. Doesn't sound like your talent runs deep which means any injuries on your first lines the team will collapse.

True Blue is a legit A team that can play with anyone.

The kids not 14 your all nuts express had many other talented kids. The entire team is good, face off kids were amazing and another big righty attack was awesome too so it's not one kid winning games for them. There just a really good team get over it true blue. Enter tourneys we're express,91, laxachuset, crabs, igloo are in and let's see how you make out.

This is funny. First True Blue is one of the worst B teams. Then True Blue could never win in a game in an A bracket. Then True Blue could never beat 91 warriors or come close to beating express... They keep proving you all so wrong it's very comical. Teams are catching up and you guys do not know what to do with yourself. Accept reality and get over it. Your not the best because of your team name. Very shortly they'll be consistently beating you all.

Then start playing the Bandits, Igloo, Express. LAX Black, the Crabs etc & stop going into B/C tourneys. You are so dillusional it's pathetic.Enough of TB you are irrelavent.

Your right one kid doesn't make the team but when u have to double or triple a kid whose the size of Lebron James it leaves guys wide open for easy goals.

Think that's the point with a great team that is starting to gel why bring an over sized and aged boy into this. Opens the team up for this. Not one parent on our team is happy about it it's wrong

Who cares?? She's nothing special and certainly not the reason they lost. Why are you so obsessed?

This is why lax should do what USA hockey does. For lax, it could work like this: At the beginning of each season (lax can do a separate fall and spring/summer season if they wish), every team is required to submit their official roster to USA lacrosse with the USA lacrosse number for each kid. Each kid's USA lacrosse number is backed by his birth certificate, which is submitted when the kid first starts playing. Each team has a manager (not a coach) who for each game at each tournament will submit 4 stickers to the score keeper (or for lax, maybe the head ref) with the roster on it. The stickers are affixed to each of 4 sheets on an official USA lacrosse score sheet (carbon copies). For lax, after the game the ref can put in the score and if anyone was ejected, note that next to their name. Each teams manager gets a copy. One copy goes to the tournament organizers (or league if its a league) and one copy to USA hockey. Each club has a permanent record of every kid who has ever stepped on the field against them, and knows that the kid is age eligible. USA lacrosse will likewise have the same database for every game played. Really limits the ability to pull shenanigans that seem to often plague lacrosse.

In addition, all boys should have photo USAL IDs - otherwise, there is no way to validate that the boys on the field are those on the roster. In a perfect world, you would have all of the IDs AND boys checked against the roster for all games (like how it's done in youth football; soccer also requires pics of players on team), but barring that, the option of a coach to challenge an opposing player would be available and resolved easily in those rare cases where it's needed.

Agreed not sure what the hold up is Especially with new recruiting regulations

I think everyone should agree to that. It would certainly stop the nonsense about holdbacks and just lying about ages.

Sigh ... age restrictions and monitoring will never happen so long as the powers that be (club lax organizations) benefit (through $, wins and recruited players) from using holdbacks. These guys run the tourneys, have the best teams, fill the showcases, get the recruiting media coverage, coach other teams on other levels,etc. They don't want a level playing field. The NLF is a direct reflection of all that. The day the kids on those teams ever have to disclose their birthdates and play against kids their own age is not happening soon.

Sigh ... age restrictions and monitoring will never happen so long as the powers that be (club lax organizations) benefit (through $, wins and recruited players) from using holdbacks. These guys run the tourneys, have the best teams, fill the showcases, get the recruiting media coverage, coach other teams on other levels,etc. They don't want a level playing field. The NLF is a direct reflection of all that. The day the kids on those teams ever have to disclose their birthdates and play against kids their own age is not happening soon

100% correct

Think it could happen but would take people banding together or God forbid a serious injury with an older boy injuring a younger boy safety issue

I reluctantly agree with that. We all call for changing the "wild west" Team LI tried for years to change it and couldn't. The Director there was the PAL director and tried at PAL to go age based and the board voted down there as well (that was three years back). Yet, IMHO they all go to WSYL because it's a chance to enhance their brand on TV.

You are right. Never gonna happen. Money runs this sport. Always has. Always will. And the NCAA has no control over it. Enjoy. It will only get worse.

I made this exact point on another age board - it will happen eventually, bit the question is whether it will be reactively based upon an injury and insurance companies insist upon age-based play in order to obtain coverage at reasonable rates versus a proactive change before such an injury occurs. I also am surprised insurance carriers aren't pushing that now considering the inherent risk the current system presents - they could seriously milk the current system with ridiculously high rates versus offering much lower rates for the alternative age-based approach. Obviously, competition will determine where that goes, but that means that it will likely take a severe injury, and more likely, a wrongful death suit, to bring about this from the carrier POV.

Nice to see some intelligent discussion and replies on this subject on this thread for a change, instead of the usual ridiculous rants and raves of over involved parents!

Unfortunately, this discussion has been beaten to death 100x over.

Let's hope sense overcomes everything else

Agreed - while the unbalanced or unfair play below the HS level is always a concern, safety should be the primary reason for concern with the current grade-based system of play. That said, more mature sports, like baseball, hockey and soccer are the model - I am sure that back when they were not age-based, the same arguments were likely also made: playing against bigger/better athletes improves your child's play, deal with it, it isn't going away, etc, etc. Yet, all of those sports made the move, and I believe it will happen in lax as well - the only question is when and why it happens.

Hockey has always been age based - at least in Canada.

What the directors and $ people don't realize is that age based will lead to more $, not less. By leveling the playing field and making the competition more transparent, they will bring in more families. All businesses want and need growth. There is no room for growth from the elite player. ALL elite players are already playing. All they can do now is poach each other's players, which doesn't grow the industry. Growth can come from the more average players and/or the good athletes that focus on other sports. There are still a ton of kids who play and love lacrosse who don't play for travel clubs but can and should. For most of the country the town lax season is very short - no more than 8-10 weeks. If the club scene did two things (1. make it age based and enforce it; 2. make a better effort to stratify teams into AAA, AA, A and B), they would see significant growth from mid and lower level players. Many of these lower levels can be summer only - with the AAA and the AA teams more year round.

Even without holdbacks its still not working, because different states use different school calendar years making their kids older (or younger) on the average. NY is on the young size, and it is obvious when you play MA and PA teams. Holdbacks just makes it worse. When the same families see their kids play MA and PA teams in hockey, the kids are the same size and look the same age. Because the birth year system forces this. Playing teams from all over is a pleasure in hockey - not so much in lacrosse. Yes, the best of the best from LI and Westchester can often play well against holdbacks. But no one else can. Its a huge turnoff for many families, and helps to limit the clubs to only elite players. In hockey and other sports, families have no problem with their kid being on a B team. They know that the other teams will be the same age and skill. In lacrosse, no one has this confidence.

Even in the town team set up, EVERYONE who has expressed an opinion on the subject thinks the grade system is stupid. I never heard someone say its a good idea. When parents are deciding where to spend their time and money (for both town and club), the grade system is a negative for lacrosse.

Let me guess you heard from someone who heard from someone who heard a mad express dad who complained because his sons playing time was affected that he is 14 or 15 or 21!

Every tram has a kid or 2 who is more mature looking. We had PAL games where our attack came up to defenders chest.


He is a 2023 playing up on 2022 team.

Exactly...And hopefully not at some childs expense.

Yup - there is more money to be made if you set the sport up to grow!

While I don't believe you at all, let's say that IS the case and he is a true 2023 playing up, then he should play on 2022 and not conveniently with 2023 when then need a big kid at a tourney. It just sets a bad example for your club. And I am not being bitter because my son's team played you guys this past weekend but you do have enough talent and some good kids, without cherry picking a kid for a tourney.

Let me guess you heard from someone who heard from someone who heard a mad express dad who complained because his sons playing time was affected that he is 14 or 15 or 21!

Every tram has a kid or 2 who is more mature looking. We had PAL games where our attack came up to defenders chest.


He is a 2023 playing up on 2022 team.

Your an idiot he maybe in 2023 but he is at least one year older then my son. I did hear it from a Dad on Express and his kid is a defender so it doesn't effect him in anyway. It was nice to see the kid in two Championship photos parents must be proud he got two t-shirts.

Yes, he's a 2023; however, he's a holdback and would be one of the older 2022's. Furthermore, he's not on the 2023 Express roster because he's not part of the team. He's on the 2022 roster. Spin it any way you want, he's not on the team.

88+3 Bandits at a B level NJ tournament (Trilogy) this weekend, looks like a bunch of township teams, what's the point?