US Lacrosse Community Forum Forums NORTHEAST LACROSSE BOTC MAIN FORUM (LI, CT, WC) Early Recruiting

Another pathetic loser

YES, thank goodness! I just saw a tweet from IL Women that showed an email they received today. Effective yesterday. Awesome news!

Then why am I still hearing about verbals to 9th graders?

If you watch The IL lacrosse interview with the coaches, they are not that excited about this and are already interested in loopholes. The commitments will now come the second party through club coaches. This does not benefit the kids, only the clubs. Just dumb all around.

Our club said they can't even talk to college coaches, I thought the clubs still could?

A good thing? In the grand scheme of things yes, and the way it should have been all along. A very raw deal for any 2021, 2020, 2019 who was already in discussions with colleges and close to a commitment.

I also think this is, in some small measure, retaliation by the coaches for the increasingly large number of kids jumping ship in Sr. year, with a much smaller window to make a decision, a lot less time to shop around.

Do you believe everyyou are told?

Effective after 4/26. No, not awesome. Club coaches are going to reap the benefits. There should be ZERO regulations. NCAA is 100% wrong. . .

Would you really want some parent club coach who is just as new to the process as you are speaking to college coaches on your child's behalf while you an your child wonder what's being said?

YES

No, and did you ever think for a minute that the college coaches really don't want to recruit 8th/9th and 10th graders? You know the coaches voted to pass this, right? Let the kids be kids and they can worry about what college they are going to when they are a little more equipt to make that decision. Have your son/daughter hit the books, enjoy the sports they play and everything else will take care of itself!

So true. The days of the slimy Club directors treating these kids like a piece of meat for marketing reasons are over. I hope the NCAA plays hard ball with these used car salesmen and their time in the sun is over.

I dont think the college coaches passed this because they'd rather talk to club coaches than the kids themselves. So if you think it will be business as usual I think that is incorrect.

They passed this initiative because they are tired of running around the country looking at 8th and 9th graders who may or may not pan out. It is expensive for the programs and totally unpredictable. However, it had been a nuclear arms race where everyone felt like they needed to do it to keep up. Even the Syracuse coach who led the charge and was so against early recruiting was out there committing rising 9th graders. At the end of the day, they are making this change because it is in their best interest. It simplifies their lives and takes some of the guess work out of recruiting. Much easier to look at a junior and make a judgment than it is to look at a hot shot 8th grader and do the same. Now these guys are also heavily invested on the showcase and camp side so it will be interesting to see how that market is affected by this. Also will name brand showcase events like Jake Reed, Showtime, Philly Freshman Showcase, etc. become less relevant for the younger kids if you can't be recruited until Junior year??? I would think Fall and Summer of sophomore year will now be a huge window to be noticed. Will be a lot of pressure to be on the best team at the best events to be seen during the critical window.

Well said.

What a bunch of moaners... Maybe this will actually let kids enjoy their youth lacrosse experience and start serious training harder in High School.Will we need so many "elite" leagues and teams at 3-8 grades now?? . Why?? what is rush at 3rd grade??4th grade?? like we are now.

Everyone thinks on today's terms, which are only in place the last few years...It might revert back to terms of 10 years ago when your HS years were more important than today's HS years.. Today its your youth years of 7th and 8th that are so important to ER.

This will be a good thing in long term for kids and their parents..maybe not for Clubs, Holdback parents, etc..but for majority it will be good. Kids can be kids while young and serious players can be serious players when it HS.

Is this "regulation" applied to all NCAA sports ? If not , why just LAX?

This is the only sport where they go hard after eighth graders. In basketball you may see a few and I mean few that sign early. Kids with LeBron James type skills, other than his type of skills most kids do not sign until their Junior or Senior year..

I agree that in the long run this proposal is great.

HOWEVER the 2020 ( girls) got the raw end of this. There are many 2020's already with verbals and some in talks with the coaches. What happens to the girls that were about to get an offer?
This should have started with the 2021's.

Also, does anyone know if a college coach CAN talk to a kid at their camp? If they can that puts a spin on this.

I believe lacrosse is the only sport that is not classified by age

Should have started with the 2022 age group. There are many 2021s already deep into the process and have sunk money into prospect and ID camps like Nike120 and Under Armor150 just to name a few.

You couldn't be more wrong. This will be a windfall for clubs. You now need play and pay through soph year

Going Hard may be over stated. In reality you see a few eight graders verbal, combine boys and girls and you are still in single digits. For both men's and women's D1,2,3 you have a round figure of 600 teams with 10 spots for each incoming age group. Picking up less than 10 players early in 8th grade for over 6000 roster spots is not exactly going hard. It is actually 00 .167%. One player for every 600 eventually recruited to play in college. But we all hear about every early commit as it is promoted, but to put actual numbers on it shows a different story.

Will there be a rush to pull out of these events for 2020-21's by parents. The UA 150 is only 2020-21 will it even be held?

What about the events that advertise college coaches will be in attendance? Are these coaches still obligated to show up ?

Exactly! The club guys will be telling kids and parents all kinds of tales about how this school and that school are really interested. You need to be seen the summer between 10th and 11th. They want to watch you play a few more times. They will be calling on Sept 1 at 12:00.01 am to give you an offer. Only problem is, now the kids and the parents have absolutely no way of verifying and interest whatsoever. All the power goes right into the club Coaches hand. Yeah and for all you town types, the HS Coaches will now really have you and your kid by the short hairs. You know, especially the coaches that think they are a better judges of talent than D1 Coaches. Glad mine are done. I feel sorry for these kids and parents. Whole new set of garbage to deal with. At least the old way parents could control the process a little. That's now all in Club or HS Coaches hands, not good. Only good thing, the holdback thing should ebb a bit. No reason to reclass in 8th grade now. However, I suspect many a private and public school kid will be transferring and repeating 10th grade.

My daughter is a 2021. She's thinking about skipping all events until next summer. I'm checking now to see if I can get money back on the deposits I've paid. I don't see the point of dropping the $$$ this year.

The irony is they usually only let you out for a verbal commitment.

Has anyone actually seen the text of the rule? I can't imagine that it prohibits the coaches from running camps and getting to know players that way given how important that income is the the coaches.

If so, my hope is that the clubs start focusing more on player development and the recruiting will revolve more around sending more around the coach run showcases like lacrosse masters and less on the showcases and tournaments.

And as if on cue, Ty tweets out a 21 commit. Things aren't changing kids. Thing are staying exactly the same. The passed over parents of the upperclass kids should be proud! They put us in this situation by whining and complaining about the "injustice" of early recruiting. Now everything will be driven underground and controlled by the club coaches. Well played, passed over parents, well played. . .

Here is a link to the text of the apparently wholly approved proposal...

https://web3.ncaa.org/lsdbi/search/proposalView?id=100172

RECRUITING -- OFF-CAMPUS CONTACTS, TELEPHONE CALLS AND UNOFFICIAL VISITS -- SEPTEMBER 1 OF JUNIOR YEAR -- LACROSSE

Status: Ready for Vote

Intent: In lacrosse, to specify that: (1) off-campus recruiting contacts shall not be made with an individual (or his or her relatives or legal guardians) before September 1 at the beginning of his or her junior year in high school and that contacts that occur during a prospective student-athlete's junior year may occur only at the prospective student-athlete's educational institution or residence; (2) telephone calls may not be received from an individual (or his or her relatives or legal guardians) before September 1 at the beginning of his or her junior year in high school; and (3) an unofficial visit with athletics department involvement shall not occur with an individual (or his or her relatives or legal guardians) before September 1 at the beginning of his or her junior year in high school.

A. Bylaws: Amend 13.1.1.1, as follows:

13.1.1.1 Time Period for Off-Campus Contacts -- General Rule. Off-campus recruiting contacts shall not be made with an individual (or his or her relatives or legal guardians) before July 1 following the completion of his or her junior year in high school (July 7 after the junior year in high school in women's ice hockey and July 15 after the junior year in high school in women's gymnastics), or the opening day of classes of his or her senior year in high school (as designated by the high school), whichever is earlier. U.S. service academy exceptions to this provision are set forth in Bylaw 13.16.1. [D]

[13.1.1.1.1 unchanged.]

13.1.1.1.2 Exception -- Women's Basketball and Lacrosse. In women's basketball and lacrosse, off-campus recruiting contacts shall not be made with an individual (or his or her relatives or legal guardians) before September 1 at the beginning of his or her junior year in high school. Contacts that occur during a prospective student-athlete's junior year may occur only at the prospective student-athlete's educational institution or residence. [D]

[13.1.1.1.3 unchanged.]

B. Bylaws: Amend 13.1.3, as follows:

13.1.3 Telephone Calls.

[13.1.3.1 unchanged.]

13.1.3.2 Additional Restrictions.

[13.1.3.2.1 unchanged.]

13.1.3.2.2 Telephone Calls Initiated by Prospective Student-Athlete at His or Her Expense -- Sports Other Than Lacrosse. Institutional In sports other than lacrosse, institutional staff members may receive telephone calls placed by a prospective student-athlete at the prospective student-athlete's own expense at any time, including before September 1 at the beginning of the prospective student-athlete's junior year in high school.

13.1.3.2.2.1 Telephone Calls From a Prospective Student-Athlete -- Lacrosse. In lacrosse, institutional staff members may not receive telephone calls from an individual (or his or her relatives or legal guardians) before September 1 at the beginning of his or her junior year in high school. [D]

[13.1.3.3 through 13.1.3.7 unchanged.]

C. Bylaws: Amend 13.7, as follows:

13.7 Unofficial (Nonpaid) Visit.

13.7.1 Number Permitted. A prospective student-athlete may visit a member institution's campus at his or her own expense an unlimited number of times. A prospective student-athlete may make unofficial visits before his or her senior year in high school.

[13.7.1.1 and 13.7.1.2 unchanged.]

13.7.1.3 Exception -- Lacrosse. In lacrosse, an unofficial visit with athletics department involvement (e.g., contact with athletics department staff, athletics-specific tour, complimentary admissions) shall not occur with an individual (or his or her relatives or legal guardians) before September 1 at the beginning of his or her junior year in high school.

[13.7.2 and 13.7.3 unchanged.]

Source: NCAA Division I Council (Student-Athlete Experience Committee)

Effective Date: August 1, 2017

Proposal Category: Amendment

Topical Area: Recruiting

Rationale: This proposal is intended to simplify the legislation by making September 1 of a prospective student-athlete's junior year the starting date for all communications and contacts. Without a restriction on the receipt of telephone calls, the other recruiting restrictions fall short of curtailing early recruiting. Currently, an institution's coach may ask a club coach to have the prospective student-athlete contact him or her. This proposal will simplify the application of recruiting communication legislation and address the issue of early recruiting. Currently there is no initial date for unofficial visits with athletics department involvement to begin.

Estimated Budget Impact: None.

I read that the NCAA will release the interpretations of the rules early next week.

This part of the ruling makes me think that the summer camp operations for a lot of colleges will come to an end - It's hard to run a camp without athletics department staff coming in contact with kids. Many of the camps are run by mostly by the student athletes looking to make a little summer cash, so possibly they could run them, but the coach and assistant coaches could only work with the high school juniors.

"13.7.1.3 Exception -- Lacrosse.
In lacrosse, an unofficial visit with athletics department involvement (e.g., contact with athletics department staff, athletics-specific tour, complimentary admissions) shall not occur with an individual (or his or her relatives or legal guardians) before September 1 at the beginning of his or her junior year in high school."

I think Ty Xanders, 3D and any other credible reviewers of high school talent just got a lot more important for coaches that need to know who they should have on their radar when the kids reach their junior year. It will be very hard for the college coaches to see the kids in person before their junior year without possibly being in a compromising position.

Absolutely. With the exception of Ivy league, COACHES DID NOT WANT THIS and never expected this to pass. I just saw a 2021 committed....LOL in the face of the NCAA. Club coaches have become the new gate keepers. Less regulation, not more. People are insane to think this will help. US Lacrosse has done a terrible disservice to us. . .not planning on re-joining. Do the same.

I wonder who paid him to tweet that...NLF?

Ty Xander's is a hack. He never played the game in college, didn't go to Alabama, is in the pocket of Fat Crab and is mocked by every single college coach I have ever met. No coach is looking for his guidance at to which kids to recruit.

The start date is really confusing to me. Isn't it 8/1? Apparently, the proposal was voted on without discussion and the proposed legislation's language (taken directly from the NCAA website https://web3.ncaa.org/lsdbi/search/proposalView?id=100172 ) clearly states that its effective date is to be August 1, 2017. Where is everyone getting their information?

So glad I havent signed up for the prospect camps and college camps this summer.

Spot on

LAWSUITS COMING. TITLE IX. YOU WAIT