US Lacrosse Community Forum Forums NORTHEAST LACROSSE BOTC MAIN FORUM (LI, CT, WC) Boys 2021 - 8th Grade Fall 2016/ Summer 2017

It's simpler than that - they have a tryout, and the best kids make the team.

Most not all teams have holdbacks. TC is one with more holdbacks than most. Here is the problem. TC has so many holdbacks that the parents think 2021 is for kids born in 2002 and the WSYl team is a proper age 2021 team. That team has more 15 year olds than most. So they beat blaze by one and want people to acknowledge they are a top team. Well you saw what Crush did to them and they did not win WSYL playing on age. None of this holdback talk about TC would have happens if the TC parent did not come on this thread saying they are one of the best. It is so funny that they think the WSYL team is a proper age 2021 team and boast a 64-4 record where three of this losses where playing in a tournament where they check the players age.

Says everyone who thinks he is 15 and he ran over their kid going to the cage.

Same here. I would rather my son play up and get better than play down. He has had no problem keeping up with most of the hold backs. It pushes him to work harder.

7/8th grader, 5'11', 190lbs. You must be so proud.

Quit the whining, lacrosse used to become America's Game, now it's the Crying Game. Hold back this, hold back that. My God, every sport in the US has "hold backs", football has 22 year old Sophomores, no one crying in football or basketball, two sports where physical size matters. You guys are real pu$$ies. If the dads [lacrosse] and moan like this I can only imagine what the kids are like.

So well said, sick of this forum because of all the hold back whiners, its really pathetic

Easy there Francis.We are talking Youth Lacrosse.. Every Youth sport doesnt have holdbacks.. Most go by age?? But somehow Lacrosse has grade base without any age restrictions?? Yea that is the intent of youth sports! Hialrious

Dumb [lacrosse], youth football goes by birth year so there are no hold backs

Agreed - once you get to 9th grade, the hold back discussion falls away, and even mentioning it with regards to college is ridiculous! BUT, for 8th grade and down, lacrosse is legitimately ridiculed for both the hold back practices that many teams engage in as well as the overall gaming of the system that goes on as a result, and it all stems from the grade-based model. In the larger scheme of things, organized youth lacrosse in much less mature than many other sports, and those more mature sports have all gone through this and moved to an age-based system in order to counteract the negative consequences of non-age based systems. Rather than supporting the 'immature' practice, we should learn from the more mature sports and realize that age-based teams are the way the sport should go. There is absolutely nothing unique about the sport of lacrosse that suggests it should not mature in its approach and move in the same direction as other sports already have. Further, there is nothing adverse in doing so, other than the fact that so many programs and teams are operating under a flawed system today - such thinking is ignorant and, in the end, will prevent lacrosse from growing to what it could be.

As does hockey and soccer. Both Strictly birth year. There is no gaming the system. Hopefully lax gets its act together and institutes a purely age based 12/31 cutoff to level the playing field no matter what state one hails from. I'm against the whining as well, but to defend the advantage that kids a year or two older than the majority of the peers and classmates have is ludicrous. It is a tangible advantage until about when the kids are freshman in college--then it levels out. And, not only an advantage, but flat out potentially dangerous from grades 5-9. And, youth football IS strictly age based. The age grade disparity occurs as they enter high school with the hold back year or through PG/red shirt years. All this being said, if the system allows the hold backs, which it does, then it is not cheating. Fools Gold perhaps in the long run, but not cheating. So keep pounding your chest Dad as your big year older boy runs over around and through everyone, the playing field will level eventually and your kings ego will take a big hit as he becomes one of the pawns...

Please pull your son out of lacrosse, if the holdback thing bothers you so much, play baseball. My son has played on age and I have never cared about a holdback. He did fine, sometimes the other kid was better and sometimes he was better, but you guys just can't get a grip on your son not being the best. So you start this holdback nonsense up. Here's the fact, your son is not as good as you think.

Wrong. My son is a great athlete and excels and is in fact a Dec birthday himself. I still think its just wrong and should be calendar year and age based--like other sports he plays...

i don't see it as ridiculous to mention holdbacks when speaking on the collage basis. What i do think is ridiculous is a 24 year old undergrad. graduating at 23 you should at least have a masters

It might be a ridiculous circumstance, but it means little to nothing with regards to performance on the field, so in regards to subject at hand, not relevant.

Good idea - ignore a problem with the sport that will keep it from growing to where it could go to, and not learn from other sports.

My son is an average player on age in 2021 - he plays down a grade with 2022 and he looks like Paul Rabil. See the issue? If not, you're missing the whole point.

It's not a growing problem, the same whiners keep complaining about it. It's a fact of life, adjust to it and quit crying. Here's my take, it doesn't affect my on age son because he doesn't care and neither do I. See how that works.

Parents should encourage their kids to have fun and try to beat the other kids in front of them. Parents should not become the center of attention or a distraction to their kids. If the leagues changed to age-based, everyone would complain that some other kids are 11 months older. What would be next, age-groups by 6 month spreads? Society has become so weak.

"it's a fact of life . . ." ignorance and myopic statement beyond belief. Attitudes such as yours would have never allowed improvement in anything. Not much of a forward thinker or leader, are you?

You're just scared when your son will have to leave his current 21 team and try out for the 20 team--and that is a fact. That is why you want to ignore because deep inside those dark places in your mind you don't like to discuss at your cocktail parties or in your case tractor pulls, you KNOW the truth. hahahahahahaha

If we keep forward thinking too much on every little thing we don't agree with, we'll all be wearing pink p-bow hats and wondering why our grand kids can't break their way out of a paper bag.

Unless it's Doogie Howser, not sure how your scenario would apply to any realistic situation

Interesting... 3 of 4 losses were at WSYL where age was regulated. Likely scenario is that you couldn't bring your typical older kids which hurt you in the tournament.

I don't see a problem with teams having older kids so long as the teams sign up for tournaments with like competition. If you play the AA division you know what you are going to get and I think it is great for teams to challenge themselves. My problem is when very good teams like Team Carolina play down to trophy hunt or duck competition so they can run up their record and beat teams by double digit goals and then go to message boards and brag about their record. Google Big South 2015 tourneymachine for one example where they played the U-13 B division in a Charlotte tournament and ran up the scores.

It's lacrosse so no, I think it's a sport, one that your son is obviously not very good at. Stop making excuses for him and buy him a baseball glove, or a pair of dance shoes. Not much of a dad are you?

If you are talking about winning games, yes, age matters in middle school. If you are talking about getting recruited, age doesn't matter. A player is either good, or he is not. It doesn't matter what he looks like playing against other kids- feet, stick work, attitude, athleticism don't lie.

Not describing my son - he is beast on the football field and carries his own in pretty much any other sport he plays, including lax. That doesn't mean that making a sport better is not the right forward thinking. Seems you have problems reasoning more complex concepts and resorting to ad hominem, a clear sign of a losing argument!

Interesting that Nassau and Suffolk top 20 are now including a rising Freshman division. College coaches asked for this. This is the absolutely best event that is not a money grab. Every top college is there, it's on LI and it's inexpensive. Sorry private school kids cannot attend. If college coaches are asking for this, it seems that early recruiting is going nowhere.

You see if that were really the case you wouldn't need to post it on an anonymous lacrosse board, along with your complaints about "holdbacks". If he was the best, he would dominate. You are complaining, therefore proving my point that he is just not very good. By the way, describing your son as a "beast" on the football field makes you look like an [lacrosse]hole. Which you are. But keep posting on here about how awesome his is, reality is far different, and everyone on here sees through your BS. But hey, fantasy is some guys reality. I'm sure your husband is the "hottest" of all the local spouses too.

I think you are being the jackass, nothing wrong with trying to make things better. Whats wrong with open dialogue. Straight to insults, okay then, what do you have a sept 1 kid who you held back and get pissed when you get called out for it.

The hold back issue isnt a sports issue. It is also an academic issue. and it does impact HS years. My on age kid a decent enough player, should be a top 10 student in his class, wont be, why, because 1-5 are a year older, hold backs. Yep those parents bent the rules because Johnnie wasnt ready for Kinder f'n garden, more like wasnt ready to ranked 100 so instead move him (or Move Shannon) back a grade and bang top 10 here we come. What ever works!!!!

Those that don't give their kid an opportunity of an extra year of primary education, when available, are the problem with sports and education today.

If you don't want to be involved in a discussion - leave! Where in my posts did I ever say my kid was the best, or, on other hand, did I say he is seriously and adversely impacted by holdbacks? The point that you have missed in all of this, as it has gone over your head multiple times, is that lacrosse as sport is mired in your simpleton thinking (and incendiary ad hominem arguments) and will not grow to its potential - my son could be the best on LI, and nothing would change about that argument - in fact, it has zero bearing on point. And, so you know, I am not a Mom - I played college ball in a sport at a high level, and have already fulfilled my athletic life goals my sons can and will do what they want, if they want, without me needling to live vicariously through them. I am involved as a coach and a board member in my local youth leagues, so I have further first hand perspective of what works and what doesn't work i n sports. So, with all your vitriol, non contributions to the discussion, what are your bona fides for weighing in? What have you done athletically and/or to help youth sports? And since I played college football, and now coach and am part of our local youth football league, I can reasonably and competently assess my son or any other player's prowess in that sport. Will his prowess continue as he gets older? Who knows - there are a lot of factors. But, today he is a dominant player who frequently dictates play on one side of the ball to the extent that one player can in that sport. The only one making an [lacrosse] on this board is you, so, please continue to post!

So now you and junior are both "BEASTS" thanks dad! I'm sure you and Al Bundy can both celebrate. Spare me your overblown nonsense, you said your son was a "beast" on the football field as well as carries his own in any other sport, so you are implying his dominance dad. But you are the [lacrosse]hole, you cry a river of tears about "holdbacks" the only reason being your son's inability to succeed against them. That's your problem and only your problem. Don't like the rules, file a lawsuit, you sound like the type. At any rate, you can kiss my a$$, because frankly you're not the type of person I would choose to be around anyway, your constant whining and carrying on would make me sick. So round up the boys on tell them all about your HS and college football highlights, I'm sure they are numerous, and cry about the inequities in 8th grade lacrosse. Like I wrote earlier, you're the typical [lacrosse] parent ruing sports by being OVERLY involved. That's the real reason lacrosse is being ruined. My son, well he does fine against holdbacks, and we don't sit around the kitchen table crying in our "BEAST" milk, like you and your "BEAST" anyways see you around "BEAST" dad.

So now you and junior are both "BEASTS" thanks dad! I'm sure you and Al Bundy can both celebrate. Spare me your overblown nonsense, you said your son was a "beast" on the football field as well as carries his own in any other sport, so you are implying his dominance dad. But you are the [lacrosse]hole, you cry a river of tears about "holdbacks" the only reason being your son's inability to succeed against them. That's your problem and only your problem. Don't like the rules, file a lawsuit, you sound like the type. At any rate, you can kiss my a$$, because frankly you're not the type of person I would choose to be around anyway, your constant whining and carrying on would make me sick. So round up the boys on tell them all about your HS and college football highlights, I'm sure they are numerous, and cry about the inequities in 8th grade lacrosse. Like I wrote earlier, you're the typical [lacrosse] parent ruing sports by being OVERLY involved. That's the real reason lacrosse is being ruined. My son, well he does fine against holdbacks, and we don't sit around the kitchen table crying in our "BEAST" milk, like you and your "BEAST" anyways see you around "BEAST" dad.[/quote]

You obviously have no idea what the term "hold your own" means - there are lots of online dictionaries available to you, so maybe you should try one. (Hint: none of them indicate dominance!) And to your ridiculous logic, every coach, parent that is involved in youth sports and improving that sport is ruining it - again, your argumentative 'skills' indicate a lack of depth of intelligent discourse - you need to simply debate into black and white so you can 'keep up' = involvement in youth sports = bad, not involved = good. Also, when you can't argue the merits of your position, you fall back on attacks that have nothing to do with the discussion. OK, sure - let the kids organize themselves. Who the [lacrosse] do you think makes youth sports even possible for our kids?! For the record, my sons and I have never had a discussion about holdbacks - my advocation of age-based sports is over involvement?? Please! That's the best argument you've got? Again, what have you done to make youth sports better?? Lastly, having played at the college level speaks for itself - if you actually looked at and considered the numbers, you would understand what that means. So, again, by all means, keep pushing your narrative. LOL!

this stuff is too funny. But could you fools keep the comments shorter so I don't waste too much time reading this stuff. Thanks for your cooperation. I'm waiting for the meet me in the parking lot statement.

This is shorter . . . the other guy might resort to that in that it is keeping with his simpleton argument style, but I won't go there.

Hold back issue has been beaten to death. With words like ad hominem (sp?) and vitriol (sp?), I need a dictionary. So let's move on to the next controversy.

Top 5 LI teams and then a breakdown by position (can be any team-not just the supposed top 5).

Overall Team:
1. Igloo Black Ice
2. 9d1?
3. Express?
4. Icon?
5. Outlaws?Legacy?Empire?

Attack: Mid: FO:
1. 1. 1.
2. 2. 2.
3. 3. 3.
4. 4. 4.
5. 5. 5.

Defense: Goalie:
1. 1.
2. 2.
3. 3.
4. 4.
5. 5.


And why no LI club spring league or play days? Would only help all of our boys in the long run.

You obviously have no idea what the term "hold your own" means - there are lots of online dictionaries available to you, so maybe you should try one. (Hint: none of them indicate dominance!) And to your ridiculous logic, every coach, parent that is involved in youth sports and improving that sport is ruining it - again, your argumentative 'skills' indicate a lack of depth of intelligent discourse - you need to simply debate into black and white so you can 'keep up' = involvement in youth sports = bad, not involved = good. Also, when you can't argue the merits of your position, you fall back on attacks that have nothing to do with the discussion. OK, sure - let the kids organize themselves. Who the [lacrosse] do you think makes youth sports even possible for our kids?! For the record, my sons and I have never had a discussion about holdbacks - my advocation of age-based sports is over involvement?? Please! That's the best argument you've got? Again, what have you done to make youth sports better?? Lastly, having played at the college level speaks for itself - if you actually looked at and considered the numbers, you would understand what that means. So, again, by all means, keep pushing your narrative. LOL![/quote]

Obviously you are quite the academic as well as a great athlete. You have given everyone on here your prolific collegiate athletic exploits, as well as written quite impressively, congratulations, it's very impressive. I'm done with your nonsense, so why don't you and the boys have some "Beast flakes" and have a pleasant St. Paddy's Day. BEAST ON!!

its like Richard Simmons and Boy George having a verbal cat fight....

Does anyone know who is playing in shamrock on April 8th?