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Re: Boys 2027-7th Grade Fall 2021/Summer 2022
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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Once again, not a dad of any club kids yet. Just a club/HS coach trying to help the otherwise under-informed.
You are only proving the point I continue to make.

There's 2 sides to this:
1. the ones that complain their kid has to play older/stronger/better kids. I've gone to some length on this already so I will keep it simple: Your sone is a 7th or 8th grader. You WILL see this for the rest of your playing days. The earlier you get used it, gain some experience with it, the better off you will eventually be.

To the parent of those kids: Stop trying to plow an easier path forward for them because you are doing them far more long-term damage than good. I see this all the time when these parents hit HS they can not handle the fact their son is not yet prepared to take on kids that are older/stronger/better.

2. The kids that are playing down against younger/weaker/lesser kids: You aren't helping yourself either because in the next year or two, instead of dominating weaker players and teams you are now getting the ball stripped from you before your third step and you have no skills to deal with it because you've been used to running through 3 defenders with ole' checks and scoring 7 goals a game.

Parents of THOSE: See point one. It isn't helping your son develop. I see THIS all the time too. You've dominated youth and club ball in 7th and 8th grade and you play the same towns and teams in HS and get your rears handed to you because - you haven't been challenged and you haven't grown past this stage.

In summation: within the next 1-2 years you will NEVER play against only on-age players ever again. So, quit the whining, accept the reality for what it is - no it should not be that way, but it is - and develop yourself into a better player equipped to handle the challenges you are 100% going to face for the rest of your playing days.


Coach,

You are a major part of the problem. The fact you come and here and try to justify 13 year olds beating up on 11 year olds (you are not saying that directly, but that is where your thinking goes) is laughable before you even say it. Again, do not ignore this point, high school sorts this out with freshman, JV and varsity programs. Every other sport in the US has figured it out but somehow lacrosse cannot. Could you imagine a bunch of AAU basketball 11 year olds trying to compete with 13 year olds? The only reason players are held back is to gain an unfair competitive advantage.

Ummm......a lot of AAU and rec basktball leagues ARE grade based. There are also some youth Football leagues that are grade based. There are some age perimeters with these grade based leagues but they are pretty liberal and allow 1-2 year variances.

I'm not justifying it. I've said now multiple times, it should not be this way, but it IS this way. Deal with reality as it is not the pretend utopia we all wish is were.
Should the club teams until HS play on age? Yes. Do some take advantage? Yes. Should they be allowed? No. Until the collective lacrosse minds get together it is unlikely to change soon so maybe *MAYBE* we also figure out a way to make it to our advantage instead of blindly tilting at windmills all the time.

BUT at the 7th and 8th grade level it is not nearly the end of the world situation people are making it out to be for one and for another, you are completely ignorant of the gigantic advantage it *could* give your son but providing them the tools to deal with it now so WHEN it gets sorted in HS his expectation levels aren't completely off-kilter.

You are taking it to the extreme to try and undermine what I am saying. This is a 2027 forum we're talking kids that are 1-2 years away from HS. We aren't talking about 11 vs. 13 year olds. we are talking kids that are about to or hitting puberty and about to hit HS level.

Big difference.

Does HS sort that out between Varsity JV and Freshman. Yes it does as it should. And if you're truly reading what I am saying - WHEN that happens, because it does as a natural course of progression, the kids that haven't faced the adversity ever because mommy and daddy like to smooth the path for them are ill equipped to handle this. Further, those Parents are far and away the biggest complainers to coaches, ADs and Administrators about playing time, not making the "right" team, etc. Often they place the blame where? On the coaches who they claim don't know what they are doing.

Is that pattern sounding familiar?


Coach, First I appreciate the level-headed discussion, but we just fundamentally disagree. To sum it up, your position is that you do not condone it and it is not right, but it is actually beneficial for the on-age player to play against an older player. I think that may be true for a very few on-age players, but for many on age players it is just getting outmatched physically by an older larger kid. And what happens if one holdback per team turns into 10, which is happening. Sure we can teach lessons about hard work and life not being fair, but that does not justify the situation. Maybe the holdback players should play up a year, rather than down a year, so they can experience the same type of character building you are claiming to be so important for the on-age players. Or maybe the on-age kid that thinks all this character building is important can play up an age so they can learn against bigger players. But in no universe should the player be held back, it is unfair and the holdback player is not learning all the valuable lessons that you claim are so important for the on-age player to learn.

Agree with this guy. Play up or playing on age if you really want your kid to get better. And the coach keeps saying that 7th and 8th graders are close enough to high school and should have hit puberty so their growth curve is already closely aligned with high schoolers? Yeah. No. Whoever said 8th grade should be the cut off and no holdbacks before 8th grade and that’s final; I think that’s perfectly reasonable. That’s what they have multiple teams in high school to sort it out. And the argument that the 9th graders are going to be shell shocked by the sudden size difference and not figure it out in 9th grade? I’ll argue they wouldn’t have been ready anyways. And if you are that worried about it then play UP before you get to high school. Playing down achieves nothin prior to high school.[/quote]


Here is the ironic thing about holdbacks and reclasses....if your son is such a fool shouldn't he be a game changer at his age level ? I don't care what anyone does out of state . If your son is really that special he should be a game changer at his age group and should have no problem when playing teams with holdbacks etc....so I guess he's not that good?

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Re: Boys 2027-7th Grade Fall 2021/Summer 2022
A
Anonymous
Unregistered
Anonymous
Unregistered
A
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Once again, not a dad of any club kids yet. Just a club/HS coach trying to help the otherwise under-informed.
You are only proving the point I continue to make.

There's 2 sides to this:
1. the ones that complain their kid has to play older/stronger/better kids. I've gone to some length on this already so I will keep it simple: Your sone is a 7th or 8th grader. You WILL see this for the rest of your playing days. The earlier you get used it, gain some experience with it, the better off you will eventually be.

To the parent of those kids: Stop trying to plow an easier path forward for them because you are doing them far more long-term damage than good. I see this all the time when these parents hit HS they can not handle the fact their son is not yet prepared to take on kids that are older/stronger/better.

2. The kids that are playing down against younger/weaker/lesser kids: You aren't helping yourself either because in the next year or two, instead of dominating weaker players and teams you are now getting the ball stripped from you before your third step and you have no skills to deal with it because you've been used to running through 3 defenders with ole' checks and scoring 7 goals a game.

Parents of THOSE: See point one. It isn't helping your son develop. I see THIS all the time too. You've dominated youth and club ball in 7th and 8th grade and you play the same towns and teams in HS and get your rears handed to you because - you haven't been challenged and you haven't grown past this stage.

In summation: within the next 1-2 years you will NEVER play against only on-age players ever again. So, quit the whining, accept the reality for what it is - no it should not be that way, but it is - and develop yourself into a better player equipped to handle the challenges you are 100% going to face for the rest of your playing days.


Coach,

You are a major part of the problem. The fact you come and here and try to justify 13 year olds beating up on 11 year olds (you are not saying that directly, but that is where your thinking goes) is laughable before you even say it. Again, do not ignore this point, high school sorts this out with freshman, JV and varsity programs. Every other sport in the US has figured it out but somehow lacrosse cannot. Could you imagine a bunch of AAU basketball 11 year olds trying to compete with 13 year olds? The only reason players are held back is to gain an unfair competitive advantage.

Ummm......a lot of AAU and rec basktball leagues ARE grade based. There are also some youth Football leagues that are grade based. There are some age perimeters with these grade based leagues but they are pretty liberal and allow 1-2 year variances.

I'm not justifying it. I've said now multiple times, it should not be this way, but it IS this way. Deal with reality as it is not the pretend utopia we all wish is were.
Should the club teams until HS play on age? Yes. Do some take advantage? Yes. Should they be allowed? No. Until the collective lacrosse minds get together it is unlikely to change soon so maybe *MAYBE* we also figure out a way to make it to our advantage instead of blindly tilting at windmills all the time.

BUT at the 7th and 8th grade level it is not nearly the end of the world situation people are making it out to be for one and for another, you are completely ignorant of the gigantic advantage it *could* give your son but providing them the tools to deal with it now so WHEN it gets sorted in HS his expectation levels aren't completely off-kilter.

You are taking it to the extreme to try and undermine what I am saying. This is a 2027 forum we're talking kids that are 1-2 years away from HS. We aren't talking about 11 vs. 13 year olds. we are talking kids that are about to or hitting puberty and about to hit HS level.

Big difference.

Does HS sort that out between Varsity JV and Freshman. Yes it does as it should. And if you're truly reading what I am saying - WHEN that happens, because it does as a natural course of progression, the kids that haven't faced the adversity ever because mommy and daddy like to smooth the path for them are ill equipped to handle this. Further, those Parents are far and away the biggest complainers to coaches, ADs and Administrators about playing time, not making the "right" team, etc. Often they place the blame where? On the coaches who they claim don't know what they are doing.

Is that pattern sounding familiar?


Coach, First I appreciate the level-headed discussion, but we just fundamentally disagree. To sum it up, your position is that you do not condone it and it is not right, but it is actually beneficial for the on-age player to play against an older player. I think that may be true for a very few on-age players, but for many on age players it is just getting outmatched physically by an older larger kid. And what happens if one holdback per team turns into 10, which is happening. Sure we can teach lessons about hard work and life not being fair, but that does not justify the situation. Maybe the holdback players should play up a year, rather than down a year, so they can experience the same type of character building you are claiming to be so important for the on-age players. Or maybe the on-age kid that thinks all this character building is important can play up an age so they can learn against bigger players. But in no universe should the player be held back, it is unfair and the holdback player is not learning all the valuable lessons that you claim are so important for the on-age player to learn.[/quote]

I agree with you on the level-headed discussion. Happy to have it and while i concede I am in a narrow band of focus, it also ins't a be all/end all position either. I fully appreciate that there are always outliers and it is an increasingly problematic issue. As a coach, I am always looking for ways to maximize opportunity for my current and future players as well.

Re: Boys 2027-7th Grade Fall 2021/Summer 2022
A
Anonymous
Unregistered
Anonymous
Unregistered
A
Here is the ironic thing about holdbacks and reclasses....if your son is such a fool shouldn't he be a game changer at his age level ? I don't care what anyone does out of state . If your son is really that special he should be a game changer at his age group and should have no problem when playing teams with holdbacks etc....so I guess he's not that good?[/quote]

This is not a very smart comment. Is your point the on-age kid is not good because he cannot beat an older kid? What does that say about your kid holdback dad?

Re: Boys 2027-7th Grade Fall 2021/Summer 2022
A
Anonymous
Unregistered
Anonymous
Unregistered
A
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Here is the ironic thing about holdbacks and reclasses....if your son is such a fool shouldn't he be a game changer at his age level ? I don't care what anyone does out of state . If your son is really that special he should be a game changer at his age group and should have no problem when playing teams with holdbacks etc....so I guess he's not that good?

This is not a very smart comment. Is your point the on-age kid is not good because he cannot beat an older kid? What does that say about your kid holdback dad?[/quote]

You have misinterpreted everything I just said ....it's quite the opposite of what you have understood . What I am saying is against holdbacks and reclasses not for them . I was saying that if you're son is such a stud then why hold him back or reclass him ...if he is a stud then he should be able to stay on age and be dominant.

Re: Boys 2027-7th Grade Fall 2021/Summer 2022
A
Anonymous
Unregistered
Anonymous
Unregistered
A
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Here is the ironic thing about holdbacks and reclasses....if your son is such a fool shouldn't he be a game changer at his age level ? I don't care what anyone does out of state . If your son is really that special he should be a game changer at his age group and should have no problem when playing teams with holdbacks etc....so I guess he's not that good?

This is not a very smart comment. Is your point the on-age kid is not good because he cannot beat an older kid? What does that say about your kid holdback dad?

You have misinterpreted everything I just said ....it's quite the opposite of what you have understood . What I am saying is against holdbacks and reclasses not for them . I was saying that if you're son is such a stud then why hold him back or reclass him ...if he is a stud then he should be able to stay on age and be dominant.[/quote]

Check out the D1 commits to top lacrosse schools! How many on age? Just curious? It’s the nature of the beast now, if your kid wants to play in a top D1 program. Just the reality of the game now.

So, parents do the holdback thing as early as possible!! More time to develop and will dominate early. Sorry, it’s just what the game is kind of requiring now. SAD but true.

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