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NCAA Face Off Rule Changes

Posted By: LAXER DAD

NCAA Face Off Rule Changes - 08/07/12 12:25 PM

See below, please sign the petition. Every little bit can help..


http://www.gopetition.com/petitions/face-off-men-unite.html
Posted By: LAXER DAD

Re: NCAA Face Off Rule Changes - 08/07/12 01:31 PM

From my sons coach........

I know many of you are extremely concerned at the recent ridiculous decisions made by the NCAA rules committee to experiment with face off rule changes this fall. I am confident that these experiments will not go forward after the fall, however I think it is extremely important that all of you email (jhind@hamilton.edu – chairman of the NCAA lacrosse rules committee) and or call
Jon Hind- 315-859-4116 and let him know your thoughts on the situation. As I am sure u can imagine these rule changes will essentially eliminate all the hard work and dedication and money that you have invested in your sons dream to become an elite college face off athlete. I implore you to email Mr Hind and let him know how hard your son has worked, the hours he has spent working on his skill, the early morning winter sessions. Mr Hind is quoted-as saying these rules and changes are to be implemented for safety and fairness??? Over 85% of college face off guys are using the moto grip? How is that not fair? Regular grip face off athletes are more prone to grabbing the opponents sticks because their fingers are facing up, making it easier to grab the stick. When was anyone hurt in the face off for using motor cycle grip? Increasing the width of the sticks at the X will only increase the chance of high impact collisions as the athletes will no longer be able to control where the ball is going. All we are going to end up with is two long poles in the middle standing up and destroying each other.
Currently the face off position is about skill and speed, it is the one position in the game where a 5’8 kid can compete against a 6’2 kid. If these rules are implemented it will be all about size and strength and collisions.
Let this committee know how important these rule changes are to your son’s career. If these rules go thru everything you have worked for is now obsolete. Let’s make sure this doesn’t happen.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: NCAA Face Off Rule Changes - 08/07/12 10:10 PM

I agree, there is no need to change the faceoff. It is a position of skill and hard work, like all other postions if you choose to practice you will get better. To disallow the motorcycle grip and say its for fairness is crazy, why is this fair? Then to say its to prevent injury without any statistics is laughable. All of the work all faceoff players put in should considered, hopefully someone will put a stop to this!
Posted By: LAXMAN

Re: NCAA Face Off Rule Changes - 08/18/12 11:12 PM

doing away with the motorcycle grip is a good thing in my opinion. i agree that the face-off middie can grab his opponents stick but it also gives the player the opportunity to grab the ball with their hand and throw it behind them. i do disagree with spreading the sticks apart 12 inches. they shud just do away with the motorcycle grip and keep the players 4 inches apart. i also like the rule that if one team has more than 2 face off violations ( moving before the whistle) they will serve a 30 second penalty. the face off middies try to time the refs cadence and they hold up the game by going early . keep in mind the rule changes are made to try and speed the game up. i like the thought of the shot clock when a stall warning is given but it shudnt be up to the officials to monitor it. you can have someone in the box keep the time on the shot clock and just use the horn when time expires. then the refs will know when to exchange possession. this is possible because the ncaa is trying to speed up the game by extending the box from 10 yards to 20 yards and having substitutions on the fly ,basically eliminating the regular substitution where a horn will no longer be needed.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: NCAA Face Off Rule Changes - 08/20/12 01:59 PM

To say you should do away with the moto grip because you can grab the ball is like saying attack men cant use under over grip because they can thumb the ball to hold possession (yes some do this). There are rules in place to penalize a player if he grabs the ball. The refs need to call it. At the higher levels you dont see Faceoff middies grab the ball because the refs will call it, and they can penalize a team for it. Keep in mind that over 80% of all faceoff middies in the NCAA use a moto grip what do propose they do start over. Think about an attack man having to start over with a new grip he wouldnt be to happy or successful. Take some time and watch a accomplished faceoff middie and you will be impressed there is a lot of stick skill and speed involved. Keep in mind it takes YEARS of practice that you are talking about wiping away. Leave the rules alone and call the game the way it should be called.
Posted By: LAXMAN

Re: NCAA Face Off Rule Changes - 08/20/12 09:51 PM

well its funny, i do call the game the way i see it. i do see plenty of face-off middies using their hand to free the ball and gain possession. although legal, the motorcycle grip became popular in the last 7 yrs. doing away with it will only provide for an equal opportunity to gain possession the players will adjust just like they have in the past and the game will become better because of it.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: NCAA Face Off Rule Changes - 08/23/12 07:06 PM

If you were to see them use their hands and call it they would not get possession. It would be a turn over and the other other team would have the ball. If this happens enough one of two things would happen, 1) the player would stop using his hands or 2) the coach would stop sending that player out for faceoff. Either way problem solved. I have heard refs tell faceoff middies if they are seen using their hands a second time they would receive a unsportsmanlike conduct penalty, further hurting their team. Im not even sure if thats allowed but it seemed to work. Can you say with the games you have officiated in you have not seen tradition grip faceoff kids use hands? As previously said If its seen it should be called and it will stop. We can not think because a player uses a moto grip he is going to cheat, just like we cant say attackmen are going to thumb the ball unless we see it
Posted By: CageSage

Re: NCAA Face Off Rule Changes - 08/24/12 04:29 PM

US Lacrosse Responds to the NCAA's Proposed Rule Changes

BALTIMORE, Aug. 22, 2012 – In response to the NCAA's proposed rule changes for the 2013 men's lacrosse season, the US Lacrosse men's game safety education subcommittee yesterday provided comments to the NCAA men's lacrosse rules committee centered around the topic of player safety.

Angelo Calvello, chair of the US Lacrosse men's game safety education subcommittee, authored a letter that communicated recommendations involving the proposed rule changes for faceoffs and restarts.

Among the highlights, US Lacrosse requested the NCAA rescind proposals that move faceoff players to 12 inches apart and that outlaw the motorcycle grip.

"Increasing the distance allows for more force to be generated prior to any contact between the two players, thus increasing the energy exchanged at impact and increasing the likelihood of injuries to the head, neck, and shoulder," Calvello wrote in the letter.

"From a physiological perspective, the motorcycle grip seems to place less stress on the joints in the right arm, especially when the arm is under force ... From a safety perspective, we can find no reason to prohibit the motorcycle grip," Calvello added.

While the move to quicker restarts was supported, the letter advised the NCAA of the potential for injuries to midfielders or defensemen who have stepped into a crease vacated by the goalie.

"These players lack the proper safety equipment required for goalies...placing them at risk of injury ... we would recommend that the Committee develop a formal protocol for discouraging players from placing themselves in such a potentially injurious position," Calvello wrote.

US Lacrosse authors age-appropriate playing rules for youth lacrosse and is represented on the National Federation of State High School Associations (NFHS) boys' lacrosse rules committee. To learn more, visit www.uslacrosse.org/TopNav2Right/Rule/MensRules.aspx.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: NCAA Face Off Rule Changes - 06/17/14 10:52 AM

I was very surprised to see Casey Powell in Inside Lacrosse this month call for the end of face offs after goals. "I think they should face off at the beginning of each quarter and that's it. The fact that the ball gets stuck in the back of their stick is ridiculous. I think that should be illegal."

I can't say I disagree after seeing some really 1 dimensional players impacting a game greatly when they are only on the field 5 seconds at a time,

Somehow they need to make it more of a 50-50 contest or just give the ball to the team that was scored on.

I saw an indoor league with fast restarts where the goalie goes right into a clear after being scored on. It worked great. The game was a lot faster.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: NCAA Face Off Rule Changes - 06/17/14 12:12 PM

Originally Posted by Anonymous
I was very surprised to see Casey Powell in Inside Lacrosse this month call for the end of face offs after goals. "I think they should face off at the beginning of each quarter and that's it. The fact that the ball gets stuck in the back of their stick is ridiculous. I think that should be illegal."

I can't say I disagree after seeing some really 1 dimensional players impacting a game greatly when they are only on the field 5 seconds at a time,

Somehow they need to make it more of a 50-50 contest or just give the ball to the team that was scored on.

I saw an indoor league with fast restarts where the goalie goes right into a clear after being scored on. It worked great. The game was a lot faster.


I would love to see the fast restart after a goal and completely agree that players that play a total of 5 minutes for the game shouldn't have such a big impact on the game as they do now.

This change along with a shot clock would greatly help the college game.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: NCAA Face Off Rule Changes - 06/17/14 05:11 PM

Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
I was very surprised to see Casey Powell in Inside Lacrosse this month call for the end of face offs after goals. "I think they should face off at the beginning of each quarter and that's it. The fact that the ball gets stuck in the back of their stick is ridiculous. I think that should be illegal."

I can't say I disagree after seeing some really 1 dimensional players impacting a game greatly when they are only on the field 5 seconds at a time,

Somehow they need to make it more of a 50-50 contest or just give the ball to the team that was scored on.

I saw an indoor league with fast restarts where the goalie goes right into a clear after being scored on. It worked great. The game was a lot faster.


I would love to see the fast restart after a goal and completely agree that players that play a total of 5 minutes for the game shouldn't have such a big impact on the game as they do now.

This change along with a shot clock would greatly help the college game.
I agree, time to get rid of face off
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: NCAA Face Off Rule Changes - 06/17/14 05:45 PM

Just have the face-off guys further apart.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: NCAA Face Off Rule Changes - 06/17/14 06:43 PM

It's really insane that because of 1 guy that barely steps on the field a team can keep possession for an entire game. A change would improve the game and possibly elevate it to the next level.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: NCAA Face Off Rule Changes - 06/17/14 08:30 PM

Originally Posted by Anonymous
It's really insane that because of 1 guy that barely steps on the field a team can keep possession for an entire game. A change would improve the game and possibly elevate it to the next level.
Exactly, get rid of it
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: NCAA Face Off Rule Changes - 06/19/14 01:15 PM

You are simply not correct. the face off is an integral part of the game requiring strong players and strategy. It is exciting and keeps the game fresh for all. The only people that complain about it are the ones that can't seem to win a face off and have a poor defense...

Whether you like it or not, lax is now a specialized contest. You have middies that only play one way, long poles that only play one position, a group specifically assigned for man up and man down, and FOGO that plays d middie in the event he losses the draw.

You want to take the game backwards and claim it is not fair for one player to impact a game? Really, everyone wants to be the player that impacts the game. So if a goalie is too good and you never score what would be done with the rules? If an attackman is just too good and can't be covered, what should the rules do about that too make competition more fair? should the Thompsons not be aloud to shoot from behind their backs because it gives them an unfair advantage?

FOGO position is here to stay based upon the last few years of college contests. You put your best on the field and I will put my best, let's see who wins, not complain because my fogo is better than yours. Perhaps the long pole wing man can do a better job...

If the FOGO is so bad at actual lax, the long pole should be able to take the rock every time...



Posted By: Anonymous

Re: NCAA Face Off Rule Changes - 06/19/14 01:33 PM

Originally Posted by Anonymous
I was very surprised to see Casey Powell in Inside Lacrosse this month call for the end of face offs after goals. "I think they should face off at the beginning of each quarter and that's it. The fact that the ball gets stuck in the back of their stick is ridiculous. I think that should be illegal."

I can't say I disagree after seeing some really 1 dimensional players impacting a game greatly when they are only on the field 5 seconds at a time,

Somehow they need to make it more of a 50-50 contest or just give the ball to the team that was scored on.

I saw an indoor league with fast restarts where the goalie goes right into a clear after being scored on. It worked great. The game was a lot faster.



First of all, it is a lost possession if the ball gets stuck in the stick...

Second, if there are 15 face offs in a game, and each one last less than 10 seconds, that is 2.5 minutes of game time associated with a face off...If you were to simply give the ball to the scored upon team, they would have 20 seconds to cross midfield and then 10 more to get in the box (this would bring stalling to a new level) so eliminating that aspect will not make the game faster but will actually make it slower with teams spending twice as much time riding after each goal. eliminating face off will create a slower game with more turnovers.

I completely agree with shot clock, once a team has possession, they have 30 seconds to put a shot on the cage. that will make the game faster....
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: NCAA Face Off Rule Changes - 06/19/14 01:54 PM

If you just have each of the face-off players have their sticks at least the width of the head away from the ball, they would no longer be able to turn the head of the stick over the ball and pinch the ball.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: NCAA Face Off Rule Changes - 06/19/14 09:43 PM

I have also heard people saying the ncaa may disallow running with the ball if held with the back of the stick.

It may be easier to make them face off with girls sticks.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: NCAA Face Off Rule Changes - 06/20/14 02:17 PM

Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
I was very surprised to see Casey Powell in Inside Lacrosse this month call for the end of face offs after goals. "I think they should face off at the beginning of each quarter and that's it. The fact that the ball gets stuck in the back of their stick is ridiculous. I think that should be illegal."

I can't say I disagree after seeing some really 1 dimensional players impacting a game greatly when they are only on the field 5 seconds at a time,

Somehow they need to make it more of a 50-50 contest or just give the ball to the team that was scored on.

I saw an indoor league with fast restarts where the goalie goes right into a clear after being scored on. It worked great. The game was a lot faster.



First of all, it is a lost possession if the ball gets stuck in the stick...

Second, if there are 15 face offs in a game, and each one last less than 10 seconds, that is 2.5 minutes of game time associated with a face off...If you were to simply give the ball to the scored upon team, they would have 20 seconds to cross midfield and then 10 more to get in the box (this would bring stalling to a new level) so eliminating that aspect will not make the game faster but will actually make it slower with teams spending twice as much time riding after each goal. eliminating face off will create a slower game with more turnovers.

I completely agree with shot clock, once a team has possession, they have 30 seconds to put a shot on the cage. that will make the game faster....
I disagree about the slowing down aspect, if ball is awarded to team that just gave up goal, then the team that just had the ball will have all shorties at midfield still on field, the goalie will get the ball up field immediately to try for a break or at very least keep other team from subbing for a LSM. This also eliminates the time that the refs take to get ball to faceoff x and teams making subs. Constant motion.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: NCAA Face Off Rule Changes - 06/20/14 07:40 PM

With the O starting to ride right away after they score, a quick restart eliminates the overblown celebrations and taunting. Another plus.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: NCAA Face Off Rule Changes - 06/20/14 08:20 PM

So i f you are down two with less the minute and score your screwed. How many comebacks have been built around winning face offs ? Its not broke, don't fix it
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: NCAA Face Off Rule Changes - 06/20/14 08:27 PM

Originally Posted by Anonymous
So i f you are down two with less the minute and score your screwed. How many comebacks have been built around winning face offs ? Its not broke, don't fix it


Seems as though more than a few people do think it is broken and limiting the game from advancing to the next level.

There will always be pros and cons but in this case replacing the face off with a fast restart will have more positives than negatives for the game.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: NCAA Face Off Rule Changes - 07/16/14 12:56 PM

just saw this thread and very interested. I agree with those that think the faceoff should NOT be eliminated. In my opinion it is one of the most exciting aspects of the sport. I think a few modifications ie: move the sticks 8" apart, (4 on each side)if the ball is in the back of the stick you must release the ball within 3 seconds, no checks allowed to the faceoff men's sticks by the wing players. Just the 2 face off guys digging it out. Good faceoff guys help make the team better and that's what the sport is about. Those guys practice their craft and work hard at it. Maybe add something like no subs may enter the game for either team until the next whistle occurs after the faceoff.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: NCAA Face Off Rule Changes - 07/16/14 01:32 PM

I can tell you one thing for sure, no kid should be a face off specialist before HS. If the rule changes and that is all a kid can do, they could be out of luck.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: NCAA Face Off Rule Changes - 07/16/14 03:10 PM

Originally Posted by Anonymous
just saw this thread and very interested. I agree with those that think the faceoff should NOT be eliminated. In my opinion it is one of the most exciting aspects of the sport. I think a few modifications ie: move the sticks 8" apart, (4 on each side)if the ball is in the back of the stick you must release the ball within 3 seconds, no checks allowed to the faceoff men's sticks by the wing players. Just the 2 face off guys digging it out. Good faceoff guys help make the team better and that's what the sport is about. Those guys practice their craft and work hard at it. Maybe add something like no subs may enter the game for either team until the next whistle occurs after the faceoff.
Interesting idea, but still slows the game down. Every other player is "practicing their craft", these guys just need to re shift their focus
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: NCAA Face Off Rule Changes - 07/16/14 03:51 PM

Go ahead and get rid of one of the most exciting parts of the game. That should help the sport grow! It works great the way it is now. Keeps the game fresh and fun for spectators. I don't agree with moving sticks apart because that will lead to more player injury due to jamming. Less skill involved. I also disagree with a previous poster's suggestion limiting the time a player can keep the ball in the back of the stick. The current rule works great, one chance to pop it out. What is the difference if the ball is in the front or back of the stick?
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: NCAA Face Off Rule Changes - 07/16/14 04:03 PM

I agree that changes need to be made. The fact that the ball gets STUCK in the back of the stick is ridiculous. Also a guy that is on the field for a minute or 2 a game should not have such a big impact.

At the very least I like the idea of no allowing the face off man to sub until the next whistle so he has to actually play the sport of lacrosse.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: NCAA Face Off Rule Changes - 07/16/14 04:20 PM

Originally Posted by Anonymous
Go ahead and get rid of one of the most exciting parts of the game. That should help the sport grow! It works great the way it is now. Keeps the game fresh and fun for spectators. I don't agree with moving sticks apart because that will lead to more player injury due to jamming. Less skill involved. I also disagree with a previous poster's suggestion limiting the time a player can keep the ball in the back of the stick. The current rule works great, one chance to pop it out. What is the difference if the ball is in the front or back of the stick?


Faceoff rule needs to be changed. This one aspect of the game has a disproportionate impact on the game when you have a strong FOGO or two. You can even the playing field by eliminating the ability to carry the ball on the back of the stick (that makes no sense whatsoever), or having it be more of a true ground ball situation, where there is absolutely no withholding allowed. Lacrosse is a game of possessions, and for one team to have the ball materially longer than the other team purely due to one discreet portion of the game doesn't make sense. Prior to the pinch and pop, faceoffs were still important but there were lots of ways to mitigate the impact of a good fogo. There is no other sport in which a restart after one teams scores has such an impact on the outcome of the game.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: NCAA Face Off Rule Changes - 07/16/14 04:33 PM

Originally Posted by Anonymous
Go ahead and get rid of one of the most exciting parts of the game. That should help the sport grow! It works great the way it is now. Keeps the game fresh and fun for spectators. I don't agree with moving sticks apart because that will lead to more player injury due to jamming. Less skill involved. I also disagree with a previous poster's suggestion limiting the time a player can keep the ball in the back of the stick. The current rule works great, one chance to pop it out. What is the difference if the ball is in the front or back of the stick?



The problem is in a game of possession this one position can control the whole game. AT the younger level the last thing I would want is t be on a team with a real good face off man. You will never see any action during the game and won't get any better.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: NCAA Face Off Rule Changes - 07/16/14 04:44 PM

Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Go ahead and get rid of one of the most exciting parts of the game. That should help the sport grow! It works great the way it is now. Keeps the game fresh and fun for spectators. I don't agree with moving sticks apart because that will lead to more player injury due to jamming. Less skill involved. I also disagree with a previous poster's suggestion limiting the time a player can keep the ball in the back of the stick. The current rule works great, one chance to pop it out. What is the difference if the ball is in the front or back of the stick?




The problem is in a game of possession this one position can control the whole game. AT the younger level the last thing I would want is t be on a team with a real good face off man. You will never see any action during the game and won't get any better.


That's not true! A team is so much more than the F/O. I have seen many games (youth and HS) where almost all F/O's have been won, but the team still loses, many times badly! It is one thing to win the F/O, you then have to keep the ball. A good team will force turnovers and get the ball back without missing a beat. Sure it is an advantage, but not always as big a difference as you think when your whole team is strong!
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: NCAA Face Off Rule Changes - 07/16/14 04:44 PM

Every sport has become more specialized, pinch hitters, relief pitchers, short yardage backs and the like. Maybe a tweak to the rules would help but.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: NCAA Face Off Rule Changes - 07/16/14 05:24 PM

Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Go ahead and get rid of one of the most exciting parts of the game. That should help the sport grow! It works great the way it is now. Keeps the game fresh and fun for spectators. I don't agree with moving sticks apart because that will lead to more player injury due to jamming. Less skill involved. I also disagree with a previous poster's suggestion limiting the time a player can keep the ball in the back of the stick. The current rule works great, one chance to pop it out. What is the difference if the ball is in the front or back of the stick?




The problem is in a game of possession this one position can control the whole game. AT the younger level the last thing I would want is t be on a team with a real good face off man. You will never see any action during the game and won't get any better.


That's not true! A team is so much more than the F/O. I have seen many games (youth and HS) where almost all F/O's have been won, but the team still loses, many times badly! It is one thing to win the F/O, you then have to keep the ball. A good team will force turnovers and get the ball back without missing a beat. Sure it is an advantage, but not always as big a difference as you think when your whole team is strong!


If you ever did the stats I am sure its well over 75% for the team that wins the faceoff.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: NCAA Face Off Rule Changes - 07/16/14 05:33 PM

Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Go ahead and get rid of one of the most exciting parts of the game. That should help the sport grow! It works great the way it is now. Keeps the game fresh and fun for spectators. I don't agree with moving sticks apart because that will lead to more player injury due to jamming. Less skill involved. I also disagree with a previous poster's suggestion limiting the time a player can keep the ball in the back of the stick. The current rule works great, one chance to pop it out. What is the difference if the ball is in the front or back of the stick?




The problem is in a game of possession this one position can control the whole game. AT the younger level the last thing I would want is t be on a team with a real good face off man. You will never see any action during the game and won't get any better.


That's not true! A team is so much more than the F/O. I have seen many games (youth and HS) where almost all F/O's have been won, but the team still loses, many times badly! It is one thing to win the F/O, you then have to keep the ball. A good team will force turnovers and get the ball back without missing a beat. Sure it is an advantage, but not always as big a difference as you think when your whole team is strong!


If you ever did the stats I am sure its well over 75% for the team that wins the faceoff.


Not sure about that, nevertheless, F/Os are an important and exciting aspect of the game. There are many excellent FOGOs. Competitive teams should not have a problem finding/traing one if they really care about that position. Just like they do for goalie.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: NCAA Face Off Rule Changes - 07/16/14 05:58 PM

Every sport is specialized, that is due to the growth of the sport. F/O have become and exciting important part of the game. Someone said should one player on the field for two or three minutes have such and impact? Did you ever see football? Sixty minute game and almost half of the games each year (proven) come down to a guy who can't tackle, can't catch, can't throw, can't block and is slow...Can you guess the position???

Keeping the game exciting is what will grow the sport. Creating more skilled positions will grow the sport, limiting the impacts of skilled position players is a natural progression. It happens now. LSM? DM? OM?

Maybe we should eliminate the goaile and just have a really small hole in the center of the net, then we can be basketball with pads...

Come on folks, the only people that don't like the FOGO positions are the college teams that haven't found the right kid for the role and lost a national championship because of their failure to have forecast the value of having a great kid play fogo. Did I hear someone say Syracuse...
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: NCAA Face Off Rule Changes - 07/16/14 06:10 PM

Originally Posted by Anonymous
Every sport is specialized, that is due to the growth of the sport. F/O have become and exciting important part of the game. Someone said should one player on the field for two or three minutes have such and impact? Did you ever see football? Sixty minute game and almost half of the games each year (proven) come down to a guy who can't tackle, can't catch, can't throw, can't block and is slow...Can you guess the position???

Keeping the game exciting is what will grow the sport. Creating more skilled positions will grow the sport, limiting the impacts of skilled position players is a natural progression. It happens now. LSM? DM? OM?

Maybe we should eliminate the goaile and just have a really small hole in the center of the net, then we can be basketball with pads...

Come on folks, the only people that don't like the FOGO positions are the college teams that haven't found the right kid for the role and lost a national championship because of their failure to have forecast the value of having a great kid play fogo. Did I hear someone say Syracuse...


I couldn't disagree more. people want fast paced action. That is why the shot clock was brought in. and more will be done to speed up the game. The face off needs to be changed and it wil. within the next few years it will change completely
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: NCAA Face Off Rule Changes - 07/16/14 06:29 PM

Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Every sport is specialized, that is due to the growth of the sport. F/O have become and exciting important part of the game. Someone said should one player on the field for two or three minutes have such and impact? Did you ever see football? Sixty minute game and almost half of the games each year (proven) come down to a guy who can't tackle, can't catch, can't throw, can't block and is slow...Can you guess the position???

Keeping the game exciting is what will grow the sport. Creating more skilled positions will grow the sport, limiting the impacts of skilled position players is a natural progression. It happens now. LSM? DM? OM?

Maybe we should eliminate the goaile and just have a really small hole in the center of the net, then we can be basketball with pads...

Come on folks, the only people that don't like the FOGO positions are the college teams that haven't found the right kid for the role and lost a national championship because of their failure to have forecast the value of having a great kid play fogo. Did I hear someone say Syracuse...


I couldn't disagree more. people want fast paced action. That is why the shot clock was brought in. and more will be done to speed up the game. The face off needs to be changed and it wil. within the next few years it will change completely


Don't count on it!
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: NCAA Face Off Rule Changes - 07/16/14 07:14 PM

Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Every sport is specialized, that is due to the growth of the sport. F/O have become and exciting important part of the game. Someone said should one player on the field for two or three minutes have such and impact? Did you ever see football? Sixty minute game and almost half of the games each year (proven) come down to a guy who can't tackle, can't catch, can't throw, can't block and is slow...Can you guess the position???

Keeping the game exciting is what will grow the sport. Creating more skilled positions will grow the sport, limiting the impacts of skilled position players is a natural progression. It happens now. LSM? DM? OM?

Maybe we should eliminate the goaile and just have a really small hole in the center of the net, then we can be basketball with pads...

Come on folks, the only people that don't like the FOGO positions are the college teams that haven't found the right kid for the role and lost a national championship because of their failure to have forecast the value of having a great kid play fogo. Did I hear someone say Syracuse...


I couldn't disagree more. people want fast paced action. That is why the shot clock was brought in. and more will be done to speed up the game. The face off needs to be changed and it wil. within the next few years it will change completely


Don't count on it!



We will see but I wouldn't be bringing my kid up to be one dimensional. Have him enjoy the game because when it's not there anymore your other skills need to surface
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: NCAA Face Off Rule Changes - 07/16/14 08:59 PM

Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
I was very surprised to see Casey Powell in Inside Lacrosse this month call for the end of face offs after goals. "I think they should face off at the beginning of each quarter and that's it. The fact that the ball gets stuck in the back of their stick is ridiculous. I think that should be illegal."

I can't say I disagree after seeing some really 1 dimensional players impacting a game greatly when they are only on the field 5 seconds at a time,

Somehow they need to make it more of a 50-50 contest or just give the ball to the team that was scored on.

I saw an indoor league with fast restarts where the goalie goes right into a clear after being scored on. It worked great. The game was a lot faster.



First of all, it is a lost possession if the ball gets stuck in the stick...

Second, if there are 15 face offs in a game, and each one last less than 10 seconds, that is 2.5 minutes of game time associated with a face off...If you were to simply give the ball to the scored upon team, they would have 20 seconds to cross midfield and then 10 more to get in the box (this would bring stalling to a new level) so eliminating that aspect will not make the game faster but will actually make it slower with teams spending twice as much time riding after each goal. eliminating face off will create a slower game with more turnovers.

I completely agree with shot clock, once a team has possession, they have 30 seconds to put a shot on the cage. that will make the game faster....


It takes longer to pull the ball out of the goal, get your FOGO unit on the field and have the refs set up the face off and walk back to midfield than an immediate restart. There are ways to keep the face off relevant, but in a game where you need to dislodge the ball from another player's stick, and the players are very skilled at keeping possession of the ball, it becomes unfair to have such a small part of the game impact the outcome so heavily. I'd love to see the stat of wins vs. losses at the top tier schools when they have a dominant face off winning percentage. I've personally been on the winning and losing sides of the face off game and when our guy completely dominates the other team's face off guy it gets a little awkward.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: NCAA Face Off Rule Changes - 07/16/14 09:02 PM

Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
So i f you are down two with less the minute and score your screwed. How many comebacks have been built around winning face offs ? Its not broke, don't fix it


Seems as though more than a few people do think it is broken and limiting the game from advancing to the next level.

There will always be pros and cons but in this case replacing the face off with a fast restart will have more positives than negatives for the game.


So if you're down three and cut it to two with 2 minutes left but lose every face off, you have no chance of coming back either...you make a good point but i think the solution is to make the face off more equitable - they need to figure out how to make it a true ground ball situation, which unfortunately means taking some of the technique out of the process.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: NCAA Face Off Rule Changes - 07/16/14 09:42 PM

Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
So i f you are down two with less the minute and score your screwed. How many comebacks have been built around winning face offs ? Its not broke, don't fix it


Seems as though more than a few people do think it is broken and limiting the game from advancing to the next level.

There will always be pros and cons but in this case replacing the face off with a fast restart will have more positives than negatives for the game.


So if you're down three and cut it to two with 2 minutes left but lose every face off, you have no chance of coming back either...you make a good point but i think the solution is to make the face off more equitable - they need to figure out how to make it a true ground ball situation, which unfortunately means taking some of the technique out of the process.


Why? Kids work hard on their technique. Just because some are better than others does not mean everything needs to be changed. Fact is, spectators love to watch the faceoff. Get rid of that and you've got soccer. If you want to keep an exciting part of the game, you leave it alone.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: NCAA Face Off Rule Changes - 07/16/14 09:50 PM

FOGO is a valid and sought after position. Colleges are recruiting these kids as early as possible and I suspect they are using those spots wisely...Having a face off does not slow the game in fact makes it more exciting. You can argue that one player is better than another at every position, should we tell the really fast guys to slow down so the other teams middies can catch up? Should we tell the athletic D man he can't play because at 6'4" his reach is 6 inches better than everyone else on the field and its not fair? Or like the other poster said, take out the goalies and play basketball.

Only people that don't like face offs are those that don't have a good fogo...

I dont have a fogo kid, but if I did i would be happy given that people with that skill, win the ground ball by whatever means possible, are a commodity in this market.

For the doomsday guy that apparently has the inside knowledge that the face off is going away, what are you on the rules committee? Get a grip, the growth of this sport like all others will depend on TV deals. Not based upon the speed of the game. So like Hockey, people like to watch the face off and the cameras capture the action very well.

Everyone says its about the "speed of the game" and to a certain extent that is true. So the way to speed up the game is a real shot clock behind both cages or in the box.

But the real growth will only come from TV and that is about watch-ability and enjoyment of watching.... How fast does baseball move? How fast does soccer move? How about football?

No, those sports have grown and are successful, not because there is non stop action, but because they are distributed through TV in a viewer friendly manner.

Scores of 12 to 8 are more than enough and there is no need to tinker with one of the real skill positions in the game. Spend your time and energy figuring out how to get ESPN to do more than 8 college games per year and you will grow the sport without regard to any rule change....
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: NCAA Face Off Rule Changes - 07/16/14 10:02 PM

If I have to watch one more soccer game I'll throw up!
KEEP THE FACEOFF!!!!!
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: NCAA Face Off Rule Changes - 07/16/14 10:20 PM

Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
So i f you are down two with less the minute and score your screwed. How many comebacks have been built around winning face offs ? Its not broke, don't fix it


Seems as though more than a few people do think it is broken and limiting the game from advancing to the next level.

There will always be pros and cons but in this case replacing the face off with a fast restart will have more positives than negatives for the game.


So if you're down three and cut it to two with 2 minutes left but lose every face off, you have no chance of coming back either...you make a good point but i think the solution is to make the face off more equitable - they need to figure out how to make it a true ground ball situation, which unfortunately means taking some of the technique out of the process.


Get a better FOGO! That's what you need to do! It's called a game. You put your best out there, sometimes it doesn't work out.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: NCAA Face Off Rule Changes - 07/16/14 10:34 PM

Originally Posted by Anonymous
FOGO is a valid and sought after position. Colleges are recruiting these kids as early as possible and I suspect they are using those spots wisely...Having a face off does not slow the game in fact makes it more exciting. You can argue that one player is better than another at every position, should we tell the really fast guys to slow down so the other teams middies can catch up? Should we tell the athletic D man he can't play because at 6'4" his reach is 6 inches better than everyone else on the field and its not fair? Or like the other poster said, take out the goalies and play basketball.

Only people that don't like face offs are those that don't have a good fogo...

I dont have a fogo kid, but if I did i would be happy given that people with that skill, win the ground ball by whatever means possible, are a commodity in this market.

For the doomsday guy that apparently has the inside knowledge that the face off is going away, what are you on the rules committee? Get a grip, the growth of this sport like all others will depend on TV deals. Not based upon the speed of the game. So like Hockey, people like to watch the face off and the cameras capture the action very well.

Everyone says its about the "speed of the game" and to a certain extent that is true. So the way to speed up the game is a real shot clock behind both cages or in the box.

But the real growth will only come from TV and that is about watch-ability and enjoyment of watching.... How fast does baseball move? How fast does soccer move? How about football?

No, those sports have grown and are successful, not because there is non stop action, but because they are distributed through TV in a viewer friendly manner.

Scores of 12 to 8 are more than enough and there is no need to tinker with one of the real skill positions in the game. Spend your time and energy figuring out how to get ESPN to do more than 8 college games per year and you will grow the sport without regard to any rule change....


Great post! We all want the sport to grow. Need to keep it exciting. The breaks for F/O are good for the boys to regroup and good for the spectators to refocus attention. My son is an attackman, but I love to watch the F/O, kind of like a mini wrestling match!
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: NCAA Face Off Rule Changes - 07/16/14 10:50 PM

It works as long as your son is an attachman on the team that keeps winning these face offs ..otherwise your son might be bored just watching the game played in the other end of the field
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: NCAA Face Off Rule Changes - 07/16/14 11:04 PM

Originally Posted by Anonymous
It works as long as your son is an attachman on the team that keeps winning these face offs ..otherwise your son might be bored just watching the game played in the other end of the field


Get or train a FOGO! This is not brain surgery, it's a specialized position and there are plenty of kids out there that can get the job done!
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: NCAA Face Off Rule Changes - 07/16/14 11:36 PM

Ok so i have read some of these posts, and have something to add. My family is not well off, in fact we struggle. My son who is going into HS next year started to play lacrosse in middle school. He became very good at the face off position and people are telling us he could get a scholarship. This has changed his life. He works so hard every day trying to get better at this. I go to all of his games and enjoy watching the face off as much as the other parts of the game. It is so intense and exciting, and I know it is not just because it's my son. Everyone stops chatting and watches. If faceoffs are taken out of the game in the way they are used now, there are so many young boys that will see their dreams burn up in front of them. This is bad for everyone. I don't see how such an important part of the game can change. It makes no sense at all. What kind of person would want to stir a pot like this. There must be something else you can focus on. leave the Faceoff alone!
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: NCAA Face Off Rule Changes - 07/17/14 12:56 AM

Good luck to you and your boy, I agree with you wholeheartedly!
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: NCAA Face Off Rule Changes - 07/22/14 01:56 AM

Did anyone else watch the FIL Championship? The face offs weren't the problem. The stall is going to kill any TV deal.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: NCAA Face Off Rule Changes - 07/22/14 11:31 AM

Originally Posted by Anonymous
Did anyone else watch the FIL Championship? The face offs weren't the problem. The stall is going to kill any TV deal.


A shot clock at the college and international level is very much needed.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: NCAA Face Off Rule Changes - 07/22/14 01:27 PM

Originally Posted by Anonymous
Ok so i have read some of these posts, and have something to add. My family is not well off, in fact we struggle. My son who is going into HS next year started to play lacrosse in middle school. He became very good at the face off position and people are telling us he could get a scholarship. This has changed his life. He works so hard every day trying to get better at this. I go to all of his games and enjoy watching the face off as much as the other parts of the game. It is so intense and exciting, and I know it is not just because it's my son. Everyone stops chatting and watches. If faceoffs are taken out of the game in the way they are used now, there are so many young boys that will see their dreams burn up in front of them. This is bad for everyone. I don't see how such an important part of the game can change. It makes no sense at all. What kind of person would want to stir a pot like this. There must be something else you can focus on. leave the Faceoff alone!



This talk is coming straight from the NCAA I believe.They are always looking for ways to improve the game and make it flow much quicker and the reality looks lik it will happen.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: NCAA Face Off Rule Changes - 07/22/14 03:59 PM

Originally Posted by Anonymous
FOGO is a valid and sought after position. Colleges are recruiting these kids as early as possible and I suspect they are using those spots wisely...Having a face off does not slow the game in fact makes it more exciting. You can argue that one player is better than another at every position, should we tell the really fast guys to slow down so the other teams middies can catch up? Should we tell the athletic D man he can't play because at 6'4" his reach is 6 inches better than everyone else on the field and its not fair? Or like the other poster said, take out the goalies and play basketball.

Only people that don't like face offs are those that don't have a good fogo...

I dont have a fogo kid, but if I did i would be happy given that people with that skill, win the ground ball by whatever means possible, are a commodity in this market.

For the doomsday guy that apparently has the inside knowledge that the face off is going away, what are you on the rules committee? Get a grip, the growth of this sport like all others will depend on TV deals. Not based upon the speed of the game. So like Hockey, people like to watch the face off and the cameras capture the action very well.

Everyone says its about the "speed of the game" and to a certain extent that is true. So the way to speed up the game is a real shot clock behind both cages or in the box.

But the real growth will only come from TV and that is about watch-ability and enjoyment of watching.... How fast does baseball move? How fast does soccer move? How about football?

No, those sports have grown and are successful, not because there is non stop action, but because they are distributed through TV in a viewer friendly manner.

Scores of 12 to 8 are more than enough and there is no need to tinker with one of the real skill positions in the game. Spend your time and energy figuring out how to get ESPN to do more than 8 college games per year and you will grow the sport without regard to any rule change....
No. You maybe right regarding tv $ but the sport plays well on tv when it is fast moving, any sport does. Could you imagine if basketball went back to mid court for a jump ball after every basket? Could you imagine lacrosse taking the ball back to mid field after a goal and having another face off? Being able to quick restart after a goal and force the team to clear leaves shorties on the field and less opportunity to sub out. Shorties on shorties will create more opportunites and less crowded passing lanes. God forbid a shorty have to play O AND D. Sorry if I submit that the fast break in hoops and lacrosse is the most exciting, not the face off or jump ball. While a LSM may also be a specialty and will be less important, a new specialty will be created, or recreated - the 2 way middy. Faster paced sport with constant action will attract the $, not the face off.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: NCAA Face Off Rule Changes - 07/22/14 04:06 PM

Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
FOGO is a valid and sought after position. Colleges are recruiting these kids as early as possible and I suspect they are using those spots wisely...Having a face off does not slow the game in fact makes it more exciting. You can argue that one player is better than another at every position, should we tell the really fast guys to slow down so the other teams middies can catch up? Should we tell the athletic D man he can't play because at 6'4" his reach is 6 inches better than everyone else on the field and its not fair? Or like the other poster said, take out the goalies and play basketball.

Only people that don't like face offs are those that don't have a good fogo...

I dont have a fogo kid, but if I did i would be happy given that people with that skill, win the ground ball by whatever means possible, are a commodity in this market.

For the doomsday guy that apparently has the inside knowledge that the face off is going away, what are you on the rules committee? Get a grip, the growth of this sport like all others will depend on TV deals. Not based upon the speed of the game. So like Hockey, people like to watch the face off and the cameras capture the action very well.

Everyone says its about the "speed of the game" and to a certain extent that is true. So the way to speed up the game is a real shot clock behind both cages or in the box.

But the real growth will only come from TV and that is about watch-ability and enjoyment of watching.... How fast does baseball move? How fast does soccer move? How about football?

No, those sports have grown and are successful, not because there is non stop action, but because they are distributed through TV in a viewer friendly manner.

Scores of 12 to 8 are more than enough and there is no need to tinker with one of the real skill positions in the game. Spend your time and energy figuring out how to get ESPN to do more than 8 college games per year and you will grow the sport without regard to any rule change....
No. You maybe right regarding tv $ but the sport plays well on tv when it is fast moving, any sport does. Could you imagine if basketball went back to mid court for a jump ball after every basket? Could you imagine lacrosse taking the ball back to mid field after a goal and having another face off? Being able to quick restart after a goal and force the team to clear leaves shorties on the field and less opportunity to sub out. Shorties on shorties will create more opportunites and less crowded passing lanes. God forbid a shorty have to play O AND D. Sorry if I submit that the fast break in hoops and lacrosse is the most exciting, not the face off or jump ball. While a LSM may also be a specialty and will be less important, a new specialty will be created, or recreated - the 2 way middy. Faster paced sport with constant action will attract the $, not the face off.



I couldn't agree more. That is why this change is being looked at so closely
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: NCAA Face Off Rule Changes - 07/22/14 04:30 PM

Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
FOGO is a valid and sought after position. Colleges are recruiting these kids as early as possible and I suspect they are using those spots wisely...Having a face off does not slow the game in fact makes it more exciting. You can argue that one player is better than another at every position, should we tell the really fast guys to slow down so the other teams middies can catch up? Should we tell the athletic D man he can't play because at 6'4" his reach is 6 inches better than everyone else on the field and its not fair? Or like the other poster said, take out the goalies and play basketball.

Only people that don't like face offs are those that don't have a good fogo...

I dont have a fogo kid, but if I did i would be happy given that people with that skill, win the ground ball by whatever means possible, are a commodity in this market.

For the doomsday guy that apparently has the inside knowledge that the face off is going away, what are you on the rules committee? Get a grip, the growth of this sport like all others will depend on TV deals. Not based upon the speed of the game. So like Hockey, people like to watch the face off and the cameras capture the action very well.

Everyone says its about the "speed of the game" and to a certain extent that is true. So the way to speed up the game is a real shot clock behind both cages or in the box.

But the real growth will only come from TV and that is about watch-ability and enjoyment of watching.... How fast does baseball move? How fast does soccer move? How about football?

No, those sports have grown and are successful, not because there is non stop action, but because they are distributed through TV in a viewer friendly manner.

Scores of 12 to 8 are more than enough and there is no need to tinker with one of the real skill positions in the game. Spend your time and energy figuring out how to get ESPN to do more than 8 college games per year and you will grow the sport without regard to any rule change....
No. You maybe right regarding tv $ but the sport plays well on tv when it is fast moving, any sport does. Could you imagine if basketball went back to mid court for a jump ball after every basket? Could you imagine lacrosse taking the ball back to mid field after a goal and having another face off? Being able to quick restart after a goal and force the team to clear leaves shorties on the field and less opportunity to sub out. Shorties on shorties will create more opportunites and less crowded passing lanes. God forbid a shorty have to play O AND D. Sorry if I submit that the fast break in hoops and lacrosse is the most exciting, not the face off or jump ball. While a LSM may also be a specialty and will be less important, a new specialty will be created, or recreated - the 2 way middy. Faster paced sport with constant action will attract the $, not the face off.


You couldn't be more wrong! Lax and bball have their similarities, but are also different in many ways. Maybe we should get rid of the goalie too? You make silly points. Face off needs to stay in the game as is. As others have pointed out, it makes the game exciting, and refocuses people's attention. What I do agree wholeheartedly with however, is the shot clock. This will improve the speed of the game.face off is not the problem so stop trying to create one!
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: NCAA Face Off Rule Changes - 07/22/14 06:39 PM

Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
FOGO is a valid and sought after position. Colleges are recruiting these kids as early as possible and I suspect they are using those spots wisely...Having a face off does not slow the game in fact makes it more exciting. You can argue that one player is better than another at every position, should we tell the really fast guys to slow down so the other teams middies can catch up? Should we tell the athletic D man he can't play because at 6'4" his reach is 6 inches better than everyone else on the field and its not fair? Or like the other poster said, take out the goalies and play basketball.

Only people that don't like face offs are those that don't have a good fogo...

I dont have a fogo kid, but if I did i would be happy given that people with that skill, win the ground ball by whatever means possible, are a commodity in this market.

For the doomsday guy that apparently has the inside knowledge that the face off is going away, what are you on the rules committee? Get a grip, the growth of this sport like all others will depend on TV deals. Not based upon the speed of the game. So like Hockey, people like to watch the face off and the cameras capture the action very well.

Everyone says its about the "speed of the game" and to a certain extent that is true. So the way to speed up the game is a real shot clock behind both cages or in the box.

But the real growth will only come from TV and that is about watch-ability and enjoyment of watching.... How fast does baseball move? How fast does soccer move? How about football?

No, those sports have grown and are successful, not because there is non stop action, but because they are distributed through TV in a viewer friendly manner.

Scores of 12 to 8 are more than enough and there is no need to tinker with one of the real skill positions in the game. Spend your time and energy figuring out how to get ESPN to do more than 8 college games per year and you will grow the sport without regard to any rule change....
No. You maybe right regarding tv $ but the sport plays well on tv when it is fast moving, any sport does. Could you imagine if basketball went back to mid court for a jump ball after every basket? Could you imagine lacrosse taking the ball back to mid field after a goal and having another face off? Being able to quick restart after a goal and force the team to clear leaves shorties on the field and less opportunity to sub out. Shorties on shorties will create more opportunites and less crowded passing lanes. God forbid a shorty have to play O AND D. Sorry if I submit that the fast break in hoops and lacrosse is the most exciting, not the face off or jump ball. While a LSM may also be a specialty and will be less important, a new specialty will be created, or recreated - the 2 way middy. Faster paced sport with constant action will attract the $, not the face off.


You couldn't be more wrong! Lax and bball have their similarities, but are also different in many ways. Maybe we should get rid of the goalie too? You make silly points. Face off needs to stay in the game as is. As others have pointed out, it makes the game exciting, and refocuses people's attention. What I do agree wholeheartedly with however, is the shot clock. This will improve the speed of the game.face off is not the problem so stop trying to create one!
Silly? Per previous posts this topic is being reviewed every year so not trying to create one. It's already out there silly. Time elapsed after goal to reset and refocus is faster than a quick restart that has possibilities for fast break? Use a stop watch silly. The face off guy is a midfielder first, fogo 2nd silly. But if you think it is silly to not have your kid or player start playing midfield instead of fogo, now that is silly.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: NCAA Face Off Rule Changes - 07/22/14 07:04 PM

Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
FOGO is a valid and sought after position. Colleges are recruiting these kids as early as possible and I suspect they are using those spots wisely...Having a face off does not slow the game in fact makes it more exciting. You can argue that one player is better than another at every position, should we tell the really fast guys to slow down so the other teams middies can catch up? Should we tell the athletic D man he can't play because at 6'4" his reach is 6 inches better than everyone else on the field and its not fair? Or like the other poster said, take out the goalies and play basketball.

Only people that don't like face offs are those that don't have a good fogo...

I dont have a fogo kid, but if I did i would be happy given that people with that skill, win the ground ball by whatever means possible, are a commodity in this market.

For the doomsday guy that apparently has the inside knowledge that the face off is going away, what are you on the rules committee? Get a grip, the growth of this sport like all others will depend on TV deals. Not based upon the speed of the game. So like Hockey, people like to watch the face off and the cameras capture the action very well.

Everyone says its about the "speed of the game" and to a certain extent that is true. So the way to speed up the game is a real shot clock behind both cages or in the box.

But the real growth will only come from TV and that is about watch-ability and enjoyment of watching.... How fast does baseball move? How fast does soccer move? How about football?

No, those sports have grown and are successful, not because there is non stop action, but because they are distributed through TV in a viewer friendly manner.

Scores of 12 to 8 are more than enough and there is no need to tinker with one of the real skill positions in the game. Spend your time and energy figuring out how to get ESPN to do more than 8 college games per year and you will grow the sport without regard to any rule change....
No. You maybe right regarding tv $ but the sport plays well on tv when it is fast moving, any sport does. Could you imagine if basketball went back to mid court for a jump ball after every basket? Could you imagine lacrosse taking the ball back to mid field after a goal and having another face off? Being able to quick restart after a goal and force the team to clear leaves shorties on the field and less opportunity to sub out. Shorties on shorties will create more opportunites and less crowded passing lanes. God forbid a shorty have to play O AND D. Sorry if I submit that the fast break in hoops and lacrosse is the most exciting, not the face off or jump ball. While a LSM may also be a specialty and will be less important, a new specialty will be created, or recreated - the 2 way middy. Faster paced sport with constant action will attract the $, not the face off.


You couldn't be more wrong! Lax and bball have their similarities, but are also different in many ways. Maybe we should get rid of the goalie too? You make silly points. Face off needs to stay in the game as is. As others have pointed out, it makes the game exciting, and refocuses people's attention. What I do agree wholeheartedly with however, is the shot clock. This will improve the speed of the game.face off is not the problem so stop trying to create one!
Silly? Per previous posts this topic is being reviewed every year so not trying to create one. It's already out there silly. Time elapsed after goal to reset and refocus is faster than a quick restart that has possibilities for fast break? Use a stop watch silly. The face off guy is a midfielder first, fogo 2nd silly. But if you think it is silly to not have your kid or player start playing midfield instead of fogo, now that is silly.



I believe they think the changes could be made within 2-3 years.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: NCAA Face Off Rule Changes - 07/22/14 07:18 PM

Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
FOGO is a valid and sought after position. Colleges are recruiting these kids as early as possible and I suspect they are using those spots wisely...Having a face off does not slow the game in fact makes it more exciting. You can argue that one player is better than another at every position, should we tell the really fast guys to slow down so the other teams middies can catch up? Should we tell the athletic D man he can't play because at 6'4" his reach is 6 inches better than everyone else on the field and its not fair? Or like the other poster said, take out the goalies and play basketball.

Only people that don't like face offs are those that don't have a good fogo...

I dont have a fogo kid, but if I did i would be happy given that people with that skill, win the ground ball by whatever means possible, are a commodity in this market.

For the doomsday guy that apparently has the inside knowledge that the face off is going away, what are you on the rules committee? Get a grip, the growth of this sport like all others will depend on TV deals. Not based upon the speed of the game. So like Hockey, people like to watch the face off and the cameras capture the action very well.

Everyone says its about the "speed of the game" and to a certain extent that is true. So the way to speed up the game is a real shot clock behind both cages or in the box.

But the real growth will only come from TV and that is about watch-ability and enjoyment of watching.... How fast does baseball move? How fast does soccer move? How about football?

No, those sports have grown and are successful, not because there is non stop action, but because they are distributed through TV in a viewer friendly manner.

Scores of 12 to 8 are more than enough and there is no need to tinker with one of the real skill positions in the game. Spend your time and energy figuring out how to get ESPN to do more than 8 college games per year and you will grow the sport without regard to any rule change....
No. You maybe right regarding tv $ but the sport plays well on tv when it is fast moving, any sport does. Could you imagine if basketball went back to mid court for a jump ball after every basket? Could you imagine lacrosse taking the ball back to mid field after a goal and having another face off? Being able to quick restart after a goal and force the team to clear leaves shorties on the field and less opportunity to sub out. Shorties on shorties will create more opportunites and less crowded passing lanes. God forbid a shorty have to play O AND D. Sorry if I submit that the fast break in hoops and lacrosse is the most exciting, not the face off or jump ball. While a LSM may also be a specialty and will be less important, a new specialty will be created, or recreated - the 2 way middy. Faster paced sport with constant action will attract the $, not the face off.


You couldn't be more wrong! Lax and bball have their similarities, but are also different in many ways. Maybe we should get rid of the goalie too? You make silly points. Face off needs to stay in the game as is. As others have pointed out, it makes the game exciting, and refocuses people's attention. What I do agree wholeheartedly with however, is the shot clock. This will improve the speed of the game.face off is not the problem so stop trying to create one!
Silly? Per previous posts this topic is being reviewed every year so not trying to create one. It's already out there silly. Time elapsed after goal to reset and refocus is faster than a quick restart that has possibilities for fast break? Use a stop watch silly. The face off guy is a midfielder first, fogo 2nd silly. But if you think it is silly to not have your kid or player start playing midfield instead of fogo, now that is silly.


Sounds like you're mad. Probably cause your son is a wanna be FOGO who sucks and you're just bitter about spending all that money training him. Maybe try a new position? The face off negative nellys try to bring up this crap every year. Fact is the majority of lax players and fans enjoy that aspect of the game, silly!
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: NCAA Face Off Rule Changes - 07/22/14 08:11 PM

Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
FOGO is a valid and sought after position. Colleges are recruiting these kids as early as possible and I suspect they are using those spots wisely...Having a face off does not slow the game in fact makes it more exciting. You can argue that one player is better than another at every position, should we tell the really fast guys to slow down so the other teams middies can catch up? Should we tell the athletic D man he can't play because at 6'4" his reach is 6 inches better than everyone else on the field and its not fair? Or like the other poster said, take out the goalies and play basketball.

Only people that don't like face offs are those that don't have a good fogo...

I dont have a fogo kid, but if I did i would be happy given that people with that skill, win the ground ball by whatever means possible, are a commodity in this market.

For the doomsday guy that apparently has the inside knowledge that the face off is going away, what are you on the rules committee? Get a grip, the growth of this sport like all others will depend on TV deals. Not based upon the speed of the game. So like Hockey, people like to watch the face off and the cameras capture the action very well.

Everyone says its about the "speed of the game" and to a certain extent that is true. So the way to speed up the game is a real shot clock behind both cages or in the box.

But the real growth will only come from TV and that is about watch-ability and enjoyment of watching.... How fast does baseball move? How fast does soccer move? How about football?

No, those sports have grown and are successful, not because there is non stop action, but because they are distributed through TV in a viewer friendly manner.

Scores of 12 to 8 are more than enough and there is no need to tinker with one of the real skill positions in the game. Spend your time and energy figuring out how to get ESPN to do more than 8 college games per year and you will grow the sport without regard to any rule change....
No. You maybe right regarding tv $ but the sport plays well on tv when it is fast moving, any sport does. Could you imagine if basketball went back to mid court for a jump ball after every basket? Could you imagine lacrosse taking the ball back to mid field after a goal and having another face off? Being able to quick restart after a goal and force the team to clear leaves shorties on the field and less opportunity to sub out. Shorties on shorties will create more opportunites and less crowded passing lanes. God forbid a shorty have to play O AND D. Sorry if I submit that the fast break in hoops and lacrosse is the most exciting, not the face off or jump ball. While a LSM may also be a specialty and will be less important, a new specialty will be created, or recreated - the 2 way middy. Faster paced sport with constant action will attract the $, not the face off.


You couldn't be more wrong! Lax and bball have their similarities, but are also different in many ways. Maybe we should get rid of the goalie too? You make silly points. Face off needs to stay in the game as is. As others have pointed out, it makes the game exciting, and refocuses people's attention. What I do agree wholeheartedly with however, is the shot clock. This will improve the speed of the game.face off is not the problem so stop trying to create one!
Silly? Per previous posts this topic is being reviewed every year so not trying to create one. It's already out there silly. Time elapsed after goal to reset and refocus is faster than a quick restart that has possibilities for fast break? Use a stop watch silly. The face off guy is a midfielder first, fogo 2nd silly. But if you think it is silly to not have your kid or player start playing midfield instead of fogo, now that is silly.


Sounds like you're mad. Probably cause your son is a wanna be FOGO who sucks and you're just bitter about spending all that money training him. Maybe try a new position? The face off negative nellys try to bring up this crap every year. Fact is the majority of lax players and fans enjoy that aspect of the game, silly!
Wow, your family must love you around the dinner table. Fast break less exciting than face off? Now that is silly, loser!
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: NCAA Face Off Rule Changes - 07/22/14 08:21 PM

Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
FOGO is a valid and sought after position. Colleges are recruiting these kids as early as possible and I suspect they are using those spots wisely...Having a face off does not slow the game in fact makes it more exciting. You can argue that one player is better than another at every position, should we tell the really fast guys to slow down so the other teams middies can catch up? Should we tell the athletic D man he can't play because at 6'4" his reach is 6 inches better than everyone else on the field and its not fair? Or like the other poster said, take out the goalies and play basketball.

Only people that don't like face offs are those that don't have a good fogo...

I dont have a fogo kid, but if I did i would be happy given that people with that skill, win the ground ball by whatever means possible, are a commodity in this market.

For the doomsday guy that apparently has the inside knowledge that the face off is going away, what are you on the rules committee? Get a grip, the growth of this sport like all others will depend on TV deals. Not based upon the speed of the game. So like Hockey, people like to watch the face off and the cameras capture the action very well.

Everyone says its about the "speed of the game" and to a certain extent that is true. So the way to speed up the game is a real shot clock behind both cages or in the box.

But the real growth will only come from TV and that is about watch-ability and enjoyment of watching.... How fast does baseball move? How fast does soccer move? How about football?

No, those sports have grown and are successful, not because there is non stop action, but because they are distributed through TV in a viewer friendly manner.

Scores of 12 to 8 are more than enough and there is no need to tinker with one of the real skill positions in the game. Spend your time and energy figuring out how to get ESPN to do more than 8 college games per year and you will grow the sport without regard to any rule change....
No. You maybe right regarding tv $ but the sport plays well on tv when it is fast moving, any sport does. Could you imagine if basketball went back to mid court for a jump ball after every basket? Could you imagine lacrosse taking the ball back to mid field after a goal and having another face off? Being able to quick restart after a goal and force the team to clear leaves shorties on the field and less opportunity to sub out. Shorties on shorties will create more opportunites and less crowded passing lanes. God forbid a shorty have to play O AND D. Sorry if I submit that the fast break in hoops and lacrosse is the most exciting, not the face off or jump ball. While a LSM may also be a specialty and will be less important, a new specialty will be created, or recreated - the 2 way middy. Faster paced sport with constant action will attract the $, not the face off.


You couldn't be more wrong! Lax and bball have their similarities, but are also different in many ways. Maybe we should get rid of the goalie too? You make silly points. Face off needs to stay in the game as is. As others have pointed out, it makes the game exciting, and refocuses people's attention. What I do agree wholeheartedly with however, is the shot clock. This will improve the speed of the game.face off is not the problem so stop trying to create one!
Silly? Per previous posts this topic is being reviewed every year so not trying to create one. It's already out there silly. Time elapsed after goal to reset and refocus is faster than a quick restart that has possibilities for fast break? Use a stop watch silly. The face off guy is a midfielder first, fogo 2nd silly. But if you think it is silly to not have your kid or player start playing midfield instead of fogo, now that is silly.


Sounds like you're mad. Probably cause your son is a wanna be FOGO who sucks and you're just bitter about spending all that money training him. Maybe try a new position? The face off negative nellys try to bring up this crap every year. Fact is the majority of lax players and fans enjoy that aspect of the game, silly!
Wow, your family must love you around the dinner table. Fast break less exciting than face off? Now that is silly, loser!


Actually, I like the fast break following a f/o smoking.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: NCAA Face Off Rule Changes - 07/23/14 09:00 PM

What do you think the original intent of the face off was? I believe it was for both Teams to have a 50-50 shot at getting ball. With specialized Individuals getting 60% or more of the balls and running off the field, I think spirit of the original rule is lost and changes should be made.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: NCAA Face Off Rule Changes - 07/23/14 11:02 PM

You couldn't be more wrong! As the game evolved, so did the position. There are specialists in many sports. FOGO is one of them. These boys work incredibly hard at their position. The best rise to the top and are sought after. What's wrong with that? It's a niche that is filled by a type of elite lax player who is committed to his craft. They make the game exciting!
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: NCAA Face Off Rule Changes - 07/24/14 02:14 PM

Originally Posted by Anonymous
You couldn't be more wrong! As the game evolved, so did the position. There are specialists in many sports. FOGO is one of them. These boys work incredibly hard at their position. The best rise to the top and are sought after. What's wrong with that? It's a niche that is filled by a type of elite lax player who is committed to his craft. They make the game exciting!


I guess you would call it a lax player.It's just sad watching a kid run off the field every time he wins a faceoff. It's almost like the kid has no other lacrosse skills. Just saying
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: NCAA Face Off Rule Changes - 07/24/14 02:41 PM

The simple fact that most fans agree on is that a player that is only on the field for a couple of minutes a game shouldn't have that big of an impact. The game drags to a halt after every goal as the players celebrate and take there time making substitutions. A quick restart would greatly enhance the flow and competitiveness of the game!
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: NCAA Face Off Rule Changes - 07/24/14 03:55 PM

Originally Posted by Anonymous
The simple fact that most fans agree on is that a player that is only on the field for a couple of minutes a game shouldn't have that big of an impact. The game drags to a halt after every goal as the players celebrate and take there time making substitutions. A quick restart would greatly enhance the flow and competitiveness of the game!


Not all"fogos" run off the field. In fact, many are darn good players. Coach wants to keep them fresh. My son fogos for a very good (top 20) HS program and scored 12 goals this season including 2 game winners. Many fogos are versatile plyers, you just don't always get a chance to see. Even in the college playoffs fogos had some big goals!
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: NCAA Face Off Rule Changes - 07/24/14 03:57 PM

Originally Posted by Anonymous
The simple fact that most fans agree on is that a player that is only on the field for a couple of minutes a game shouldn't have that big of an impact. The game drags to a halt after every goal as the players celebrate and take there time making substitutions. A quick restart would greatly enhance the flow and competitiveness of the game!


Very true
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: NCAA Face Off Rule Changes - 07/24/14 03:59 PM

Most fans? You represent them? Please, in my experience "most people I have talked to" like the face off and the battle...

Not so simple after all.

Not sure what games you and "most fans" are watching that grind to a halt. I think it makes the game more fun to watch which is exactly what the sport needs.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: NCAA Face Off Rule Changes - 07/24/14 07:57 PM

Originally Posted by Anonymous
Most fans? You represent them? Please, in my experience "most people I have talked to" like the face off and the battle...

Not so simple after all.

Not sure what games you and "most fans" are watching that grind to a halt. I think it makes the game more fun to watch which is exactly what the sport needs.


AGREED!
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: NCAA Face Off Rule Changes - 07/25/14 04:03 AM

Originally Posted by Anonymous
What do you think the original intent of the face off was? I believe it was for both Teams to have a 50-50 shot at getting ball. With specialized Individuals getting 60% or more of the balls and running off the field, I think spirit of the original rule is lost and changes should be made.



Did a little research and from the very first set of rules, the face off was meant to be a way for one team to have a distinct advantage. It turns out the Indians did not have face offs in their original game, so the white players could usually dominate in this area with a little practice. George Beers who wrote the original set of rules in 1860 wrote "when they (Indians) succeed at all at the present time (1869) with our best white facers, it is more an anticipatory ruse than any superior skill". In fact, even back then the players would pick up the ball on the back of the stick on a face off - the "back catch" method. Check out chapter 7 Facing (face offs) -

http://books.google.com/books?id=J8E9AAAAYAAJ&printsec=frontcover&dq=inauthor:%22William+George+Beers%22&hl=en&sa=X&ei=cNTRU6zwEJSlyASspoGAAw&ved=0CCcQ6AEwAQ#v=onepage&q&f=false

Posted By: Anonymous

Re: NCAA Face Off Rule Changes - 07/25/14 07:16 PM

Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
What do you think the original intent of the face off was? I believe it was for both Teams to have a 50-50 shot at getting ball. With specialized Individuals getting 60% or more of the balls and running off the field, I think spirit of the original rule is lost and changes should be made.



Did a little research and from the very first set of rules, the face off was meant to be a way for one team to have a distinct advantage. It turns out the Indians did not have face offs in their original game, so the white players could usually dominate in this area with a little practice. George Beers who wrote the original set of rules in 1860 wrote "when they (Indians) succeed at all at the present time (1869) with our best white facers, it is more an anticipatory ruse than any superior skill". In fact, even back then the players would pick up the ball on the back of the stick on a face off - the "back catch" method. Check out chapter 7 Facing (face offs) -

http://books.google.com/books?id=J8E9AAAAYAAJ&printsec=frontcover&dq=inauthor:%22William+George+Beers%22&hl=en&sa=X&ei=cNTRU6zwEJSlyASspoGAAw&ved=0CCcQ6AEwAQ#v=onepage&q&f=false



Interesting. I especially like the part about excelling with a little practice. This position has certainly evolved. My favorite part of the game!!
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: NCAA Face Off Rule Changes - 07/25/14 08:43 PM

Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
What do you think the original intent of the face off was? I believe it was for both Teams to have a 50-50 shot at getting ball. With specialized Individuals getting 60% or more of the balls and running off the field, I think spirit of the original rule is lost and changes should be made.



Did a little research and from the very first set of rules, the face off was meant to be a way for one team to have a distinct advantage. It turns out the Indians did not have face offs in their original game, so the white players could usually dominate in this area with a little practice. George Beers who wrote the original set of rules in 1860 wrote "when they (Indians) succeed at all at the present time (1869) with our best white facers, it is more an anticipatory ruse than any superior skill". In fact, even back then the players would pick up the ball on the back of the stick on a face off - the "back catch" method. Check out chapter 7 Facing (face offs) -

http://books.google.com/books?id=J8E9AAAAYAAJ&printsec=frontcover&dq=inauthor:%22William+George+Beers%22&hl=en&sa=X&ei=cNTRU6zwEJSlyASspoGAAw&ved=0CCcQ6AEwAQ#v=onepage&q&f=false



Interesting. I especially like the part about excelling with a little practice. This position has certainly evolved. My favorite part of the game!!
Enjoy it while it's still here
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: NCAA Face Off Rule Changes - 07/25/14 10:24 PM

Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
What do you think the original intent of the face off was? I believe it was for both Teams to have a 50-50 shot at getting ball. With specialized Individuals getting 60% or more of the balls and running off the field, I think spirit of the original rule is lost and changes should be made.



Did a little research and from the very first set of rules, the face off was meant to be a way for one team to have a distinct advantage. It turns out the Indians did not have face offs in their original game, so the white players could usually dominate in this area with a little practice. George Beers who wrote the original set of rules in 1860 wrote "when they (Indians) succeed at all at the present time (1869) with our best white facers, it is more an anticipatory ruse than any superior skill". In fact, even back then the players would pick up the ball on the back of the stick on a face off - the "back catch" method. Check out chapter 7 Facing (face offs) -

http://books.google.com/books?id=J8E9AAAAYAAJ&printsec=frontcover&dq=inauthor:%22William+George+Beers%22&hl=en&sa=X&ei=cNTRU6zwEJSlyASspoGAAw&ved=0CCcQ6AEwAQ#v=onepage&q&f=false



Interesting. I especially like the part about excelling with a little practice. This position has certainly evolved. My favorite part of the game!!
Enjoy it while it's still here


Not going anywhere, just chatter from haters! Would never happen, I even spoke to several D1 coaches about this issue, and was told by every one of them that the F/O is safe. Deal with it.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: NCAA Face Off Rule Changes - 07/28/14 12:38 PM

Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
What do you think the original intent of the face off was? I believe it was for both Teams to have a 50-50 shot at getting ball. With specialized Individuals getting 60% or more of the balls and running off the field, I think spirit of the original rule is lost and changes should be made.



Did a little research and from the very first set of rules, the face off was meant to be a way for one team to have a distinct advantage. It turns out the Indians did not have face offs in their original game, so the white players could usually dominate in this area with a little practice. George Beers who wrote the original set of rules in 1860 wrote "when they (Indians) succeed at all at the present time (1869) with our best white facers, it is more an anticipatory ruse than any superior skill". In fact, even back then the players would pick up the ball on the back of the stick on a face off - the "back catch" method. Check out chapter 7 Facing (face offs) -

http://books.google.com/books?id=J8E9AAAAYAAJ&printsec=frontcover&dq=inauthor:%22William+George+Beers%22&hl=en&sa=X&ei=cNTRU6zwEJSlyASspoGAAw&ved=0CCcQ6AEwAQ#v=onepage&q&f=false



I heard the NCAA rules committe was waiting on Chief Fogonomore to weigh in on the change. When making these important decisions they should always refer to how the game was played a hundred and fifty years ago.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: NCAA Face Off Rule Changes - 07/28/14 01:53 PM

Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
What do you think the original intent of the face off was? I believe it was for both Teams to have a 50-50 shot at getting ball. With specialized Individuals getting 60% or more of the balls and running off the field, I think spirit of the original rule is lost and changes should be made.



Did a little research and from the very first set of rules, the face off was meant to be a way for one team to have a distinct advantage. It turns out the Indians did not have face offs in their original game, so the white players could usually dominate in this area with a little practice. George Beers who wrote the original set of rules in 1860 wrote "when they (Indians) succeed at all at the present time (1869) with our best white facers, it is more an anticipatory ruse than any superior skill". In fact, even back then the players would pick up the ball on the back of the stick on a face off - the "back catch" method. Check out chapter 7 Facing (face offs) -

http://books.google.com/books?id=J8E9AAAAYAAJ&printsec=frontcover&dq=inauthor:%22William+George+Beers%22&hl=en&sa=X&ei=cNTRU6zwEJSlyASspoGAAw&ved=0CCcQ6AEwAQ#v=onepage&q&f=false



Interesting. I especially like the part about excelling with a little practice. This position has certainly evolved. My favorite part of the game!!
Enjoy it while it's still here


Not going anywhere, just chatter from haters! Would never happen, I even spoke to several D1 coaches about this issue, and was told by every one of them that the F/O is safe. Deal with it.


I spoke with a few who I am friends with and they don't want to rock the boat with their FOGO recruits because nothing has been decided yet. They feel it might happen but can't tell the kids that at this time for their own teams sake.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: NCAA Face Off Rule Changes - 07/28/14 04:17 PM

Great article in Lacrosse Magazine this month on possible changes to the face off. They focus on how the face off was eliminated in 1979 and was a big disappointment and was reinstated in 1980. Seems like there will always be face offs at some level based on this article.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: NCAA Face Off Rule Changes - 07/28/14 08:38 PM

Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
What do you think the original intent of the face off was? I believe it was for both Teams to have a 50-50 shot at getting ball. With specialized Individuals getting 60% or more of the balls and running off the field, I think spirit of the original rule is lost and changes should be made.



Did a little research and from the very first set of rules, the face off was meant to be a way for one team to have a distinct advantage. It turns out the Indians did not have face offs in their original game, so the white players could usually dominate in this area with a little practice. George Beers who wrote the original set of rules in 1860 wrote "when they (Indians) succeed at all at the present time (1869) with our best white facers, it is more an anticipatory ruse than any superior skill". In fact, even back then the players would pick up the ball on the back of the stick on a face off - the "back catch" method. Check out chapter 7 Facing (face offs) -

http://books.google.com/books?id=J8E9AAAAYAAJ&printsec=frontcover&dq=inauthor:%22William+George+Beers%22&hl=en&sa=X&ei=cNTRU6zwEJSlyASspoGAAw&ved=0CCcQ6AEwAQ#v=onepage&q&f=false



Interesting. I especially like the part about excelling with a little practice. This position has certainly evolved. My favorite part of the game!!
Enjoy it while it's still here


Not going anywhere, just chatter from haters! Would never happen, I even spoke to several D1 coaches about this issue, and was told by every one of them that the F/O is safe. Deal with it.


I spoke with a few who I am friends with and they don't want to rock the boat with their FOGO recruits because nothing has been decided yet. They feel it might happen but can't tell the kids that at this time for their own teams sake.


And I might win the power ball tonight. I don't want to tell anyone yet though because they might get jealous.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: NCAA Face Off Rule Changes - 07/28/14 09:15 PM

some of you think FOGO going away because it slows down the game...another guys has some college lacrosse coaches as friends and also thinks the position is going away, but Duke goes out and takes a proven FOGO from Stony Brook today?

Syracuse searching hard for a better FOGO?

UNC, VIrgina, Upenn, Penn State, Princeton all recruited 2017 for FOGO? Come on people, you may not like the position, you might not think it is fair for one player/position to have an impact on the game, but the schools are fielding the best FOGOs they can find...

I am sure, if they all thought it was going away, they wouldn't have been recruiting 2018s at Jake Reed...why would they waste their time?

So, no matter if you like the position or its impact, common sense tells you that the top schools would not waste their time recruiting FOGO for 3 years hence if they thought the position was going away...
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: NCAA Face Off Rule Changes - 07/28/14 10:12 PM

Originally Posted by Anonymous
some of you think FOGO going away because it slows down the game...another guys has some college lacrosse coaches as friends and also thinks the position is going away, but Duke goes out and takes a proven FOGO from Stony Brook today?

Syracuse searching hard for a better FOGO?

UNC, VIrgina, Upenn, Penn State, Princeton all recruited 2017 for FOGO? Come on people, you may not like the position, you might not think it is fair for one player/position to have an impact on the game, but the schools are fielding the best FOGOs they can find...

I am sure, if they all thought it was going away, they wouldn't have been recruiting 2018s at Jake Reed...why would they waste their time?

So, no matter if you like the position or its impact, common sense tells you that the top schools would not waste their time recruiting FOGO for 3 years hence if they thought the position was going away...


Well said, and most importantly it adds a special excitement to the game. Needs to stay if the sport wants to grow. Rules changers are like school administrators. Always trying to reinvent an already well-oiled wheel!
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: NCAA Face Off Rule Changes - 07/29/14 02:58 PM

Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
some of you think FOGO going away because it slows down the game...another guys has some college lacrosse coaches as friends and also thinks the position is going away, but Duke goes out and takes a proven FOGO from Stony Brook today?

Syracuse searching hard for a better FOGO?

UNC, VIrgina, Upenn, Penn State, Princeton all recruited 2017 for FOGO? Come on people, you may not like the position, you might not think it is fair for one player/position to have an impact on the game, but the schools are fielding the best FOGOs they can find...

I am sure, if they all thought it was going away, they wouldn't have been recruiting 2018s at Jake Reed...why would they waste their time?

So, no matter if you like the position or its impact, common sense tells you that the top schools would not waste their time recruiting FOGO for 3 years hence if they thought the position was going away...


Well said, and most importantly it adds a special excitement to the game. Needs to stay if the sport wants to grow. Rules changers are like school administrators. Always trying to reinvent an already well-oiled wheel!


Of course they are still going to recruit those kids. Until it gets eliminated you would have to. I don't think it will happen next year but I do see it being eliminated down the road. Just like long pole midfielders wee added . Back in the 80's no one did that. the game evolves and changes are made by the administrators to make the game better. It's pretty simple if you ask me so don't fight it
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: NCAA Face Off Rule Changes - 07/29/14 03:51 PM

Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
some of you think FOGO going away because it slows down the game...another guys has some college lacrosse coaches as friends and also thinks the position is going away, but Duke goes out and takes a proven FOGO from Stony Brook today?

Syracuse searching hard for a better FOGO?

UNC, VIrgina, Upenn, Penn State, Princeton all recruited 2017 for FOGO? Come on people, you may not like the position, you might not think it is fair for one player/position to have an impact on the game, but the schools are fielding the best FOGOs they can find...

I am sure, if they all thought it was going away, they wouldn't have been recruiting 2018s at Jake Reed...why would they waste their time?

So, no matter if you like the position or its impact, common sense tells you that the top schools would not waste their time recruiting FOGO for 3 years hence if they thought the position was going away...


Well said, and most importantly it adds a special excitement to the game. Needs to stay if the sport wants to grow. Rules changers are like school administrators. Always trying to reinvent an already well-oiled wheel!


Of course they are still going to recruit those kids. Until it gets eliminated you would have to. I don't think it will happen next year but I do see it being eliminated down the road. Just like long pole midfielders wee added . Back in the 80's no one did that. the game evolves and changes are made by the administrators to make the game better. It's pretty simple if you ask me so don't fight it


Things always seem simple to a simpleton. F/O has evolved to the great position it has become and there is no reason to change it. The only people that don't like it are those whose team lacks a good one. Stop crying!
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: NCAA Face Off Rule Changes - 07/29/14 03:59 PM

That is correct, of course they will recruit because as of now it is still in the rules. I however, would not have a 5th grader specializing as a FOGO, in fact, I don't think any kid should specialize before college. Because you are totally limiting yourself. And, if a a coach is pushing your son to specialize, in my opinion, that is bad advice! Of course practice the FO, but also practice off hand, stick work and defense! So, if the rule changes you still have options!
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: NCAA Face Off Rule Changes - 07/29/14 04:19 PM

Mark Dixon noted this morning that many coaches think Fogos will no longer be able to carry the ball on the back of the stick when the new rules come out.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: NCAA Face Off Rule Changes - 07/29/14 04:51 PM

Originally Posted by Anonymous
Mark Dixon noted this morning that many coaches think Fogos will no longer be able to carry the ball on the back of the stick when the new rules come out.


Would be fine with a 5 second clock on the pop out. My recommendation as a f/O specialist is to eliminate the set, like in MLL. otherwise the position is fine as is
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: NCAA Face Off Rule Changes - 07/29/14 04:53 PM

Just so you know, he has been against the FOGO position for a long time, so to hear from him is not surprising. They tried this a couple years back and it got no traction...

To all the FOGOs, don't worry about this thread, there is no real information here, just people and opinions.

There are as many of you FOGOs as goalies, it is a real position and takes real talent even if some people don't agree. Stand together and make your opinions known.

For someone that doesn't understand how a lacrosse head works, they might see having the ball in the back of the head as an advantage. Having strung hundreds of heads over the years, I can tell you having it in the back is a distinct disadvantage, the ball can be dislodged much more easily, you cannot pass or shoot accurately which is why the guys typically pop it from back to front as soon as they have the space to do it.

If I were on the opposing team I would be happy to see someone trying to pass or shoot from the back of the head...

Come on people, wake up, what is your issue with FOGO? Did a better one steal something from you???

Growth of the game requires excitement and TV. This is the one battle on the filed consistently that allows for great TV coverage. If you want to grow the game, leave the Face offs alone and add an objective shot clock...the game will grow as audiences watch more.

Posted By: Anonymous

Re: NCAA Face Off Rule Changes - 07/29/14 04:54 PM

Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
some of you think FOGO going away because it slows down the game...another guys has some college lacrosse coaches as friends and also thinks the position is going away, but Duke goes out and takes a proven FOGO from Stony Brook today?

Syracuse searching hard for a better FOGO?

UNC, VIrgina, Upenn, Penn State, Princeton all recruited 2017 for FOGO? Come on people, you may not like the position, you might not think it is fair for one player/position to have an impact on the game, but the schools are fielding the best FOGOs they can find...

I am sure, if they all thought it was going away, they wouldn't have been recruiting 2018s at Jake Reed...why would they waste their time?

So, no matter if you like the position or its impact, common sense tells you that the top schools would not waste their time recruiting FOGO for 3 years hence if they thought the position was going away...


Well said, and most importantly it adds a special excitement to the game. Needs to stay if the sport wants to grow. Rules changers are like school administrators. Always trying to reinvent an already well-oiled wheel!


Of course they are still going to recruit those kids. Until it gets eliminated you would have to. I don't think it will happen next year but I do see it being eliminated down the road. Just like long pole midfielders wee added . Back in the 80's no one did that. the game evolves and changes are made by the administrators to make the game better. It's pretty simple if you ask me so don't fight it


So, if UNC thinks the rules will change next year, they would spend time recruiting a 2018 now? Come on, they have better things to do...
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: NCAA Face Off Rule Changes - 07/29/14 04:56 PM

Most of the club teams and HS programs on LI have full time FOGOs at this point. Philly as well...

But thanks for your opinions on how to train our 5th graders...
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: NCAA Face Off Rule Changes - 07/29/14 06:00 PM

Originally Posted by Anonymous
Just so you know, he has been against the FOGO position for a long time, so to hear from him is not surprising. They tried this a couple years back and it got no traction...

To all the FOGOs, don't worry about this thread, there is no real information here, just people and opinions.

There are as many of you FOGOs as goalies, it is a real position and takes real talent even if some people don't agree. Stand together and make your opinions known.

For someone that doesn't understand how a lacrosse head works, they might see having the ball in the back of the head as an advantage. Having strung hundreds of heads over the years, I can tell you having it in the back is a distinct disadvantage, the ball can be dislodged much more easily, you cannot pass or shoot accurately which is why the guys typically pop it from back to front as soon as they have the space to do it.

If I were on the opposing team I would be happy to see someone trying to pass or shoot from the back of the head...

Come on people, wake up, what is your issue with FOGO? Did a better one steal something from you???

Growth of the game requires excitement and TV. This is the one battle on the filed consistently that allows for great TV coverage. If you want to grow the game, leave the Face offs alone and add an objective shot clock...the game will grow as audiences watch more


Well said, agree 100%. Just a pot stirrer with nothing legitimate to say!
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: NCAA Face Off Rule Changes - 07/29/14 07:30 PM

Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Just so you know, he has been against the FOGO position for a long time, so to hear from him is not surprising. They tried this a couple years back and it got no traction...

To all the FOGOs, don't worry about this thread, there is no real information here, just people and opinions.

There are as many of you FOGOs as goalies, it is a real position and takes real talent even if some people don't agree. Stand together and make your opinions known.

For someone that doesn't understand how a lacrosse head works, they might see having the ball in the back of the head as an advantage. Having strung hundreds of heads over the years, I can tell you having it in the back is a distinct disadvantage, the ball can be dislodged much more easily, you cannot pass or shoot accurately which is why the guys typically pop it from back to front as soon as they have the space to do it.



If I were on the opposing team I would be happy to see someone trying to pass or shoot from the back of the head...

Come on people, wake up, what is your issue with FOGO? Did a better one steal something from you???

Growth of the game requires excitement and TV. This is the one battle on the filed consistently that allows for great TV coverage. If you want to grow the game, leave the Face offs alone and add an objective shot clock...the game will grow as audiences watch more


Well said, agree 100%. Just a pot stirrer with nothing legitimate to say!

Thank you mister stringer...Your information is useless. I didn't know the kids go on here and panic when they read something
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: NCAA Face Off Rule Changes - 07/30/14 12:22 AM

Originally Posted by Anonymous
Most of the club teams and HS programs on LI have full time FOGOs at this point. Philly as well...

But thanks for your opinions on how to train our 5th graders...


Dude, if you want to pigeon hole your 5th grader, by all means have at it! I think it is silly, but hey, who am I?
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: NCAA Face Off Rule Changes - 07/30/14 11:50 AM

To the guy with the useless comment, please share your information, perhaps, unlike mine, yours will be useful.

Yes, people, some of them kids who have spent years learning FO, read this site. so if you have nothing better to do, go to the 2024 thread and tell them they shouldn't be excited about their kids playing lax...
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: NCAA Face Off Rule Changes - 07/30/14 03:31 PM

Originally Posted by Anonymous
To the guy with the useless comment, please share your information, perhaps, unlike mine, yours will be useful.

Yes, people, some of them kids who have spent years learning FO, read this site. so if you have nothing better to do, go to the 2024 thread and tell them they shouldn't be excited about their kids playing lax...


You mean doing faceoffs and working on sprinting off the field.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: NCAA Face Off Rule Changes - 07/30/14 06:41 PM

What a jerk you are, ever think they like doing it ? Gets lost with your garbage.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: NCAA Face Off Rule Changes - 07/30/14 07:03 PM

Originally Posted by Anonymous
What a jerk you are, ever think they like doing it ? Gets lost with your garbage.


Many kids don't know what they want at these young ages. SO putting a kid playing 10U exclusively as a faceoff kid is a terrible injustice to him ad his family for paying to play. What age is a fair age to do just faceoffs?.That is the question.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: NCAA Face Off Rule Changes - 07/31/14 01:20 AM

Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
To the guy with the useless comment, please share your information, perhaps, unlike mine, yours will be useful.

Yes, people, some of them kids who have spent years learning FO, read this site. so if you have nothing better to do, go to the 2024 thread and tell them they shouldn't be excited about their kids playing lax...


You mean doing faceoffs and working on sprinting off the field.


Yes, exactly. after practicing with top level club for 2 hours, spending more time doing face offs and sprints.

FOGOs are on the very best clubs, where does your kid play? Good luck!
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: NCAA Face Off Rule Changes - 07/31/14 01:21 AM

by 7th grade the die is cast
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: NCAA Face Off Rule Changes - 07/31/14 01:29 AM

Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
To the guy with the useless comment, please share your information, perhaps, unlike mine, yours will be useful.

Yes, people, some of them kids who have spent years learning FO, read this site. so if you have nothing better to do, go to the 2024 thread and tell them they shouldn't be excited about their kids playing lax...


You mean doing faceoffs and working on sprinting off the field.


Yes, exactly. after practicing with top level club for 2 hours, spending more time doing face offs and sprints.

FOGOs are on the very best clubs, where does your kid play? Good luck!


I agree. My son puts in countess hours working on his craft. Yes he's a specialist and proud of it. This boy is D1 bound with a great scholarship. We are very proud of him. F/O training has provided him with dicipline and perseverance. Qualites that will take him far in life.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: NCAA Face Off Rule Changes - 07/31/14 11:27 AM

Another rumor about the upcoming rule. "Withholding from play" will be the violation for carrying on the back of the stick. Here is the article.

http://www.ultimatefaceofflax.com/faceoffforum
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: NCAA Face Off Rule Changes - 07/31/14 11:57 AM

Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
To the guy with the useless comment, please share your information, perhaps, unlike mine, yours will be useful.

Yes, people, some of them kids who have spent years learning FO, read this site. so if you have nothing better to do, go to the 2024 thread and tell them they shouldn't be excited about their kids playing lax...




You mean doing faceoffs and working on sprinting off the field.


Yes, exactly. after practicing with top level club for 2 hours, spending more time doing face offs and sprints.

FOGOs are on the very best clubs, where does your kid play? Good luck!


I agree. My son puts in countess hours working on his craft. Yes he's a specialist and proud of it. This boy is D1 bound with a great scholarship. We are very proud of him. F/O training has provided him with dicipline and perseverance. Qualites that will take him far in life.



That is great! Congratulations to you and your son. I don't have a FOGO, but I think it is a great position and like goalies, the hardest job on the field...

Kid either wins or losses, can't hide in that role. Team down by one in final minutes and your kid has the chance to get his team the ball--or better yet--win the FO and fast break for the tying goal. Great stuff!

For those that think the position isn't fair or doesn't require a "true lax player" I guess they haven't seen a kid win the FO, sprint down the field dodging long poles and shoot at full sprint to score a goal.

Does anyone really think that kid doesn't have lax skill? Of course he does and from what I am seeing this summer, some of the FOGOs are the best athletes on the field.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: NCAA Face Off Rule Changes - 07/31/14 01:44 PM

Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
To the guy with the useless comment, please share your information, perhaps, unlike mine, yours will be useful.

Yes, people, some of them kids who have spent years learning FO, read this site. so if you have nothing better to do, go to the 2024 thread and tell them they shouldn't be excited about their kids playing lax...




You mean doing faceoffs and working on sprinting off the field.


Yes, exactly. after practicing with top level club for 2 hours, spending more time doing face offs and sprints.

FOGOs are on the very best clubs, where does your kid play? Good luck!


I agree. My son puts in countess hours working on his craft. Yes he's a specialist and proud of it. This boy is D1 bound with a great scholarship. We are very proud of him. F/O training has provided him with dicipline and perseverance. Qualites that will take him far in life.



That is great! Congratulations to you and your son. I don't have a FOGO, but I think it is a great position and like goalies, the hardest job on the field...

Kid either wins or losses, can't hide in that role. Team down by one in final minutes and your kid has the chance to get his team the ball--or better yet--win the FO and fast break for the tying goal. Great stuff!

For those that think the position isn't fair or doesn't require a "true lax player" I guess they haven't seen a kid win the FO, sprint down the field dodging long poles and shoot at full sprint to score a goal.

Does anyone really think that kid doesn't have lax skill? Of course he does and from what I am seeing this summer, some of the FOGOs are the best athletes on the field.


Shouldn't your best athletes stay on the field??? That would be some injustice to these kids . I hope you are not telling the truth. Please let these kids play the game and not be singled out for one thing. Please !!!!!!
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: NCAA Face Off Rule Changes - 07/31/14 03:00 PM

Life is about doing what you do best to your best ability. Kids that choose FOGO do so because they are good at it and make an impact. Sorry to naysayers, but specializing in HS as a FOGO is a great choice if you can do it at a high level.

Get many looks at the best colleges and will make an impact.

If you live in a lax town, you know the boys are playing from 2nd grade, no one specializes until 8th...plenty of time to find out what you like...
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: NCAA Face Off Rule Changes - 07/31/14 03:45 PM

Originally Posted by Anonymous
Life is about doing what you do best to your best ability. Kids that choose FOGO do so because they are good at it and make an impact. Sorry to naysayers, but specializing in HS as a FOGO is a great choice if you can do it at a high level.

Get many looks at the best colleges and will make an impact.

If you live in a lax town, you know the boys are playing from 2nd grade, no one specializes until 8th...plenty of time to find out what you like...


I have seen a 4th grade travel team use it and send the kid off after the faceoff..I felt bad for the kid and parents.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: NCAA Face Off Rule Changes - 08/14/14 07:29 PM

The committee didn't eliminate the face today like many fans would like but they did outlaw carrying the ball in the back of the stick which is a great change.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: NCAA Face Off Rule Changes - 08/14/14 07:47 PM

Well, no matter what side you are on, it looks like the powers have changed the rule. No more carrying or picking up the ball in the back of your stick. to me, that means the pinch and pop move that some kids are really good at is now gone, assuming the proposal is approved on Sept 8...

Me, I like the move and thought it added excitement, but others clearly disagree.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: NCAA Face Off Rule Changes - 08/15/14 02:31 AM

Originally Posted by Anonymous
Well, no matter what side you are on, it looks like the powers have changed the rule. No more carrying or picking up the ball in the back of your stick. to me, that means the pinch and pop move that some kids are really good at is now gone, assuming the proposal is approved on Sept 8...

Me, I like the move and thought it added excitement, but others clearly disagree.


Not so fast, this was a recommendation. My bet is it will never be passed. The "powers" are dinosaurs. They need to evolve with the sport. D1 Coaches will not approve this. Committee tried to do the same thing a couple years ago and it failed then too.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: NCAA Face Off Rule Changes - 08/15/14 03:22 AM

Wow what happens to the boys who have verbally committed to a college? will the colleges no longer give $ to fogo player?
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: NCAA Face Off Rule Changes - 08/15/14 11:16 AM

Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Well, no matter what side you are on, it looks like the powers have changed the rule. No more carrying or picking up the ball in the back of your stick. to me, that means the pinch and pop move that some kids are really good at is now gone, assuming the proposal is approved on Sept 8...

Me, I like the move and thought it added excitement, but others clearly disagree.

Not carrying the ball in the back of the stick will be approved. It is something that all in the sport except Fogos agree is not good for the growth of the game.
Not so fast, this was a recommendation. My bet is it will never be passed. The "powers" are dinosaurs. They need to evolve with the sport. D1 Coaches will not approve this. Committee tried to do the same thing a couple years ago and it failed then too.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: NCAA Face Off Rule Changes - 08/15/14 11:18 AM

Originally Posted by Anonymous
Wow what happens to the boys who have verbally committed to a college? will the colleges no longer give $ to fogo player?


Again verbals are just that. The NCAA does not recognize them and they are 100% non binding and every day they are being broken by both sides.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: NCAA Face Off Rule Changes - 08/15/14 11:46 AM

It will be very interesting to see what happens, again I will say, NO ONE should be a FOGO before HS! Even then, it is a very risky position to play. Why not work on being a well rounded player who will have options to continue playing if the Faceoffs change
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: NCAA Face Off Rule Changes - 08/15/14 01:05 PM

Perhaps you should write the rules committee and let them know that you have seen the future and no one should be a fogo...

The rule will not pass although I have heard they very well may agree to not letting the fogo have the ball in the back of his stick for more than 5 or 10 seconds..
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: NCAA Face Off Rule Changes - 08/15/14 01:09 PM

You have any proof that any school has backed off a verbal? We would all like to hear about that as it would drastically hurt the program that did it. Kids can change their minds, but coaches will damage all future recruiting efforts by doing that. Unless of course the coach conditioned the scholarship offer on grades or sat scores and the kid failed to make the grade...

Again, do you have any proof that any coach has failed to give what he verbally committed to give?
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: NCAA Face Off Rule Changes - 08/15/14 01:36 PM

Originally Posted by Anonymous
You have any proof that any school has backed off a verbal? We would all like to hear about that as it would drastically hurt the program that did it. Kids can change their minds, but coaches will damage all future recruiting efforts by doing that. Unless of course the coach conditioned the scholarship offer on grades or sat scores and the kid failed to make the grade...

Again, do you have any proof that any coach has failed to give what he verbally committed to give?



It's called a verbal. Do you think any college is worried about you or your kid not holding up their responsibilities?
Please...happens all the time
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: NCAA Face Off Rule Changes - 08/15/14 01:51 PM

Originally Posted by Anonymous
You have any proof that any school has backed off a verbal? We would all like to hear about that as it would drastically hurt the program that did it. Kids can change their minds, but coaches will damage all future recruiting efforts by doing that. Unless of course the coach conditioned the scholarship offer on grades or sat scores and the kid failed to make the grade...

Again, do you have any proof that any coach has failed to give what he verbally committed to give?


My nephew was a stud vasity player in 9th grade and committed to a D1 program. That verbal was taken back by the coach 2 yrs later when my nephews game didn't progress at all. He basically peaked in 9th grade. This is just 1 example I personally know of 3 others all for various reasons.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: NCAA Face Off Rule Changes - 08/15/14 02:10 PM

Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
You have any proof that any school has backed off a verbal? We would all like to hear about that as it would drastically hurt the program that did it. Kids can change their minds, but coaches will damage all future recruiting efforts by doing that. Unless of course the coach conditioned the scholarship offer on grades or sat scores and the kid failed to make the grade...

Again, do you have any proof that any coach has failed to give what he verbally committed to give?


My nephew was a stud vasity player in 9th grade and committed to a D1 program. That verbal was taken back by the coach 2 yrs later when my nephews game didn't progress at all. He basically peaked in 9th grade. This is just 1 example I personally know of 3 others all for various reasons.


Schools break the verbal agreement all the time. Wake up. it really mans nothing until you sign
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: NCAA Face Off Rule Changes - 08/15/14 03:48 PM

It would help if you guys that have seen this share the name of the school and the coaches name. No reason to spend time with a school if the school has a history of withdrawing offers.

Thanks for the wake up comment, but I am awake and looking for info. This is anonymous site so your sharing should not be a problem for you.

the schools we have spoken with (ND and UVA) have been very clear on the items that could make them withdraw both based on grades and SAT scores.

If the coaches are lying, I would like to know.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: NCAA Face Off Rule Changes - 08/15/14 04:14 PM

Originally Posted by Anonymous
It would help if you guys that have seen this share the name of the school and the coaches name. No reason to spend time with a school if the school has a history of withdrawing offers.

Thanks for the wake up comment, but I am awake and looking for info. This is anonymous site so your sharing should not be a problem for you.

the schools we have spoken with (ND and UVA) have been very clear on the items that could make them withdraw both based on grades and SAT scores.

If the coaches are lying, I would like to know.


People can just throw any name out there to you now and be lying so I don't think it's fair for anyone to do so...WWhat if I told you Duke did it but I am making it up because I don't like them. That's not fair
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: NCAA Face Off Rule Changes - 08/15/14 07:10 PM

Well my son is a wcomitted fogo and we spoke with his coach about the proposed changes. Coach felt they were unlikely to be passed or stick if they are. Says the commitment stand 100% either way. My son is not happy but feels he can adapt if necessary. Some of you that come on here saying things that are completely false because of what reason I don't know, should find a hobby.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: NCAA Face Off Rule Changes - 08/15/14 07:31 PM

Originally Posted by Anonymous
Well my son is a wcomitted fogo and we spoke with his coach about the proposed changes. Coach felt they were unlikely to be passed or stick if they are. Says the commitment stand 100% either way. My son is not happy but feels he can adapt if necessary. Some of you that come on here saying things that are completely false because of what reason I don't know, should find a hobby.



He's committed that he has the scholarship or just in writing?.People are just trying to give you a heads up. and if he leaves and a new coach comes in that he has to honor it.Think about it.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: NCAA Face Off Rule Changes - 08/15/14 08:06 PM

Originally Posted by Anonymous
Well my son is a wcomitted fogo and we spoke with his coach about the proposed changes. Coach felt they were unlikely to be passed or stick if they are. Says the commitment stand 100% either way. My son is not happy but feels he can adapt if necessary. Some of you that come on here saying things that are completely false because of what reason I don't know, should find a hobby.


It seems that most people in the sport are in favor of the changes except for the fogos understandably. Nothing is 100% until the national letter of intent is signed in your senior year. If you son has done that than yes he has nothing to worry about. That is the only thing the NCAA recognizes.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: NCAA Face Off Rule Changes - 08/15/14 10:33 PM

Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Well my son is a wcomitted fogo and we spoke with his coach about the proposed changes. Coach felt they were unlikely to be passed or stick if they are. Says the commitment stand 100% either way. My son is not happy but feels he can adapt if necessary. Some of you that come on here saying things that are completely false because of what reason I don't know, should find a hobby.


It seems that most people in the sport are in favor of the changes except for the fogos understandably. Nothing is 100% until the national letter of intent is signed in your senior year. If you son has done that than yes he has nothing to worry about. That is the only thing the NCAA recognizes.


Define most. Most comments I read by coaches were either neutral or not in favor of the changes. The polls such as in inside lacrosse shows the majority of people polled not in favor!
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: NCAA Face Off Rule Changes - 08/16/14 02:59 AM

Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Well my son is a wcomitted fogo and we spoke with his coach about the proposed changes. Coach felt they were unlikely to be passed or stick if they are. Says the commitment stand 100% either way. My son is not happy but feels he can adapt if necessary. Some of you that come on here saying things that are completely false because of what reason I don't know, should find a hobby.


It seems that most people in the sport are in favor of the changes except for the fogos understandably. Nothing is 100% until the national letter of intent is signed in your senior year. If you son has done that than yes he has nothing to worry about. That is the only thing the NCAA recognizes.


Define most. Most comments I read by coaches were either neutral or not in favor of the changes. The polls such as in inside lacrosse shows the majority of people polled not in favor!


These coaches that are in favor of this change are all in favor if it benefits their team, for example the Coach of St Leo a D-3 Brad Jorgensen stated the following in inside lacrosse.

Saint Leo had the highest FO% in the country last year....and I love the new rule. FOGO's will adapt once they are done complaining.

Sounds honorable but when you look into his face off guy he is not a pinch and pop player (what a surprise),so this doesn't affect his team at all! if anything it helps

All of these coaches are not concerned with "the game" they are only worried about what is best for their team, just look at Desko at Syracuse once his faceoff guy started to struggle he started his crusade against faceoffs
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: NCAA Face Off Rule Changes - 08/16/14 03:21 AM

At least no one is talking about getting rid of it anymore. Here is a link to the great Lacrosse Magazine article on the last time they DID eliminate it how disappointing it was.


http://www.laxmagazine.com/college_...ment_the_lacrosse_year_without_a_faceoff


Posted By: Anonymous

Re: NCAA Face Off Rule Changes - 08/25/14 05:49 AM

One rule that I think the NCAA should have changed is how they keep stats on ground balls. I think ground balls obtained during a faceoff (by fogo or even wing) should be kept separate from ground balls obtained during normal play. The opportunities for wings and fogos to get GBs is so much greater under the current rule. It makes it harder to evaluate the stats associated with regular play hussle vs. having a loose ball opportunity given to them directly several times a game.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: NCAA Face Off Rule Changes - 09/11/14 01:16 AM

Face off rules are final. No more carrying ball in back of the stick. Insidelacrosse has the article
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: NCAA Face Off Rule Changes - 09/11/14 12:07 PM

Originally Posted by Anonymous
Face off rules are final. No more carrying ball in back of the stick. Insidelacrosse has the article


Good. Finally...Play the game the way it's suppose to be played.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: NCAA Face Off Rule Changes - 09/11/14 12:11 PM

[quote=Anonymous]At least no one is talking about getting rid of it anymore. Here is a link to the great Lacrosse Magazine article on the last time they DID eliminate it how disappointing it was.


http://www.laxmagazine.com/college_...ment_the_lacrosse_year_without_a_faceoff


For now. MY guess is two years it will be eliminated to speed up the game more
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: NCAA Face Off Rule Changes - 09/11/14 12:43 PM

The rules committee got it right on the face off changes. The majority of the best fogo's will still be the best.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: NCAA Face Off Rule Changes - 09/11/14 11:07 PM

Originally Posted by Anonymous
[quote=Anonymous]At least no one is talking about getting rid of it anymore. Here is a link to the great Lacrosse Magazine article on the last time they DID eliminate it how disappointing it was.


http://www.laxmagazine.com/college_...ment_the_lacrosse_year_without_a_faceoff


For now. MY guess is two years it will be eliminated to speed up the game more


Please tell me you are not that stupid. If you knew anything about lacrosse, you would that was tried many years ago and failed miserably! I suspect you are just trying to be a di**. Mission accomplished!
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