Let the BL Bragging and Bashing begin.....

Thanks for starting the 2024 thread. Picking up where the other poster started on the general thread that BL2024 promises their parents Championships I have to say that was never brought up.

We left another club and tried out for BL this past season. My son is not by an means close to the top boys on this team but I can tell you what the experience has been thus far.

Positives:
1. Excellent coaching. Especially the box training really made a difference over the winter kid loved it.
2. My sense was I would pay less money as they mention with their a la carte approach and I have.
3. The team has 3-4 players that are outstanding 5th grade lacrosse players and then a lot of "good" players. Better kids help my sons development. Our previous club didn't really have any top notch players. It gives him a goal.

On the negative side:
1. There are boys on this team that are AA caliber players and there are boys that are struggling to consistently catch and throw.
2. I think they could practice a bit more and consistently.

All said and done very happy with the switch and looking forward to the Tournament season.

Does anyone know if the Dukes Nationals 2024 team is any good? Were they able to attract some talent, did they get quality players from LI and MD? Seems crazy to me to go from the two biggest hotbeds of lacrosse to the Lehigh Valley in Pennsylvania. What tournament are they playing?

Dukes 2024 has some very good talent. No weak links , certainly not the caliber of taz or Wolfpack as a team but some very strong players But this team is brand new. Played 1 tourney together, They played up in binghampton in a 5/6 tourney a few weeks ago and held their own against some good 6th grader teams. They have multiple kids from Maryland, Virginia, Carolina, New [lacrosse] etc. this team is not intended to be your primary team, The tournaments are set up around the primary travel period, not to conflict. Mini camps are awesome and getting better and better as more kids show up. The mini camps are set up on college campuses where the team watches the game then practices on the college turf. The coaching is phenomenal. Even if you have no interest in playing, 60 dollars for a very intense 3 hours is well worth it. Upcoming tourneys is shamrock 3/19 on Long island

Will Dukes National be at the Shamrock on the makeup date 4/8?

Probably, especially since Wolfpack is playing up.

Heard the BL 2024 lost again to Madlax. Anyone know the score? How did Madlax look?

Lost 7-6 both teams looked rusty no excuses but Just a side note BL was missing three starters one of whom is top 2 on the team. ML is all
About one kid that is a foot taller than anyone else on the field he had 5 goals

Everybody was missing players last weekend. Madlax was probably missing some too. Most of the DC area was on Spring Break. No shame in losing to Madlax. I think Taz has lost to them like 7 straight.

No shame at all we have lost to them three times now by 1 goal each game. We will get over the hump. Our coach told us that their coach asked to move the game up in time as families were "leaving" for break in the afternoon but that they had their full team.

I saw the tournament schedule before and after it was changed. BL vs Madlax was always at 12pm - The time for this game never changed.

Uh duh you do know all tournaments send a draft of the schedule for review for conflicts before they publish it to parents in fact most say DONT share with parents

I love how this 2024 team has endless number of excuses. Just face it... you'll never get over the hump. You are not a top 5 team in this age group! Wolfpack, Taz, Madlax, BLC, and Hawks are all better than this team.

No excuses my friend. My son told me heard the HC for Madlax actually say to the coaches at BL, "you were missing some guys" and the BL HC Coach responded, "No excuses"
You are just jealous that a small club like BL is beating your team like a drum.

Who has BL beaten "like a drum"? Has BL ever beaten one of the top 5?

I guess we'll find out just how good this team at the Elite 8 tourney in June.

Wolfpack
BLC
Madlax
Team 91 MD
Taz
Igloo
Hawks
BL

I'm sure once BL loses to one of the teams above, they will make excuses again.

Yes we will and you won't be there.
My point was that all these boards are the same. Local teams complain and accuse the better teams of cheating and just being bad people. You are correct we have not beaten a team on that list and half we haven't even played, ever. However we are in the conversation and invited to the party. I would turn your questions to what LOCAL team have we not beaten because it is local bashers and you know it. Is there another local Philly 24 team that can compete with anyone on that list?

Rough Rider BETTER than Brotherly Love. PERIOD!

Now that's funny...

Rough Riders should worry about beating Freedom

Uprising as well.

where are most kids playing on uprising coming from?

I think they are more Bucks County and there seems to bed some sort of partnership with Triple H. They are a decent local team. I would rank the local teams at 2024 below:

1. Brotherly Love
2. Uprising
3. Freedom
4. Rough Riders
5. NXT

Uprising will be at the top of that list for this class give it 2 years

If you are counting on Triple H to help Uprising I wouldn't. The days of Triple H and Dukes having a strangle hold on the talent are long gone.

Triple H is still the standard. Don't kid yourself there is a reason that kids leave other clubs to join Billy and his team of coaches.

If they were the standard they would field competitive teams at the younger ages which they don't..21/22/23/ are all well below average

There are those that use a win / loss metric however I would offer the better metric is how much the kids "learn" from superior coaching. The proof is in the results. In the last year what club can claim a higher placement rate in elite athletic and lacrosse institutions. Fear the "H"

The matchups are set and it is going to be a fun weekend! Let's hope the weather is perfect for lax.

We may go 0-4 my friend but the reality is that we are IN and you are OUT

Your joking right! If they are the standard, the sport is in trouble!

Freedom 2024 is the best team in the nation. With Ryan Shannon leading the defense and Jake McMahon leading the offense, they are unstoppable.

We'll, this is an interesting statement.

Their best player is Udo
We have played them multiple times and it isn't even close

They aren't even the best team in Chester County, let alone Philly.

Obviously someone told the kids about this site and they posted this.

Maybe 2019 and up, with all teams going to year round training, HHH although strong is not top dog at any age.

Completely agree. Kids are no longer leaving their clubs to be coached by Billy and his team. They did this several years ago because they believed that HHH was their pathway to the Dukes. HHH is just another Philadelphia lacrosse club and should definitely not be considered the standard.

Dukes national is becoming a joke. New kids every tournament. Depth chart means nothing. Some kids played on the 2023 then same tournament get pulled down to play with the 2024 team. The 2022 team had about half 2021 kids on it. I had a older son play for the original Dukes program the national program is a complete money grab

So are you saying these are grade eligible kids or are they dropping kids that are not grade eligible.

Crabs, igloo, and Express told their kids they we no longer allowed to play part time for Dukes so the Dukes lost the majority of their talent.

The kids that were moved down are in fact age eligible , they are just not on this team. The issue should not be whether or not they are legal, the issue is that everything they preach to parents regarding depth chart, playing time etc is thrown out the window come tourney time. This is a very poorly run organization. Great practices, great parents, But buyer beware, if your kid is not the perceived best on the field, they will replace you the day of the tourney if the find a willing player. Dukes 22 brought in a bunch of kids that have never been to a camp to play and they still got beat by Channy. This organization will never last as long as they continue to burn people. Word will spread quickly.

They share the same number but let's be honest Dukes with Ebe Helm (the original) founder of Dukes is not the other flavors of Dukes that are running around other than a desperate attempt financially driven to set up a farm system with the defection of Triple H. The people running are the younger versions of Dukes, constantly play kids that are over age, swap out guest players in a heart beat, play some major daddy ball and pretty much are the scourge of youth lacrosse. I agree it will catch up with them as you pointed out.

That pretty much sums it up....

Brotherly love goes 1-2 at elite 8 day.

Actually went 2-2 against the eight best teams in 5th grade. Beat Bethesda and Annapolis and lost to Madlax and Legacy. Any one of 7 teams could have won this tourney most competitive tourney have ever played. Placing 5th with only 3 practices as a team before going down there is no shame in that as I am guessing your post was another local parent trying to bash BL. Keep on playing your local tournaments and CCLA thinking your son is the next Paul Rabil cause he ain't. Anyone of the local teams here would have ended up with the same results as Igloo 0-4 but likely with double digit losses or shutouts.

Brotherly Love held their own and then some. Most competitive tournament I've been to in years. Any one of 5 teams could have one the thing....in the end, like most of lacrosse, in all came down to matchups. Some teams match up better against others and that's the only difference.

The Million championships are legit.

played BL at millon. My sons team got the better of them but real good team with nice parents. Don't take the jealous bait

Haters gonna hate1

Summer Slam Should be interesting at 2024. Igloo coming down to take on Philly teams, Looks like Looneys is coming back after winning it all at a weak Meltdown A Bracket and Brotherly Love coming back from Annapolis losing in the Championship to Bethesda after beating them a few weeks back at Elite Eight. Then there is Roughriders who if you listen to them is better than Brotherly Love and always has been seems to me two teams that don't like each other. That BBL team is pretty good to, so don't count them out either. How did Looneys lose to NXT...I know that little togo is ridiculous but there is really only one other kid on that team...anyone see the game?

BBL would roll Igloo

I see RR is going to Young Guns. Any good? Do they have any quality wins?

Hey Looney's you guys are a bunch of pussies. Your 2024 team is up here at Summer Slam and getting thumped by Brotherly Love. You have no business taking the free clear after the 4 goal mercy rule kicks in. You didn't do it once but you took 5 Free clears. Have some self respect. Yes the score probably would have been a lot worse than the 11-8 or whatever was the score. No self respecting team takes the free clear via the mercy rule. You take your lumps you learn from it and move on. PUSSIES.

So Looney's -- who came in second to last place in the HoCo league -- just won Summer Slam. Damn.

Hey Brotherly Love what happened at Summer Slam, looks like Rough Riders were correct, they are better than BL at 2024

Classic case of over looking your opponent, my sons 2020 team has done it way to often. BL beat them 9-1 in pool play obviously the kids figured it would be another cake walk..

Should be interesting NXT Tournament. Legacy Taz and Madlax are coming to the event never seen them at NXT before. I would place them as top four 2024 teams in the country.

2024 Summer Slam field was basically all B teams.

We play in A brackets all the time and there are always teams that aren't A teams but that is ok. I respect them for wanting to challenge themselves nothing wrong with that. There were several valid A teams.
Brotherly Love
BBL
Looneys
Roughriders.

Good day for Philly Lacrosse Freedom Red looked strong and played Legacy Taz and Madlax strong. Lost to BL in semis but both teams had good tournaments beating good teams from Tri-State area and Northeast. I think Taz is the best team in the country and to lose to them by a single goal is impressive.

I agree. Very impressive. But according to Tourney Machine, Madlax beat Freedom 9-4. Taz only beat Freedom 7-6. Madlax beat Taz in the semis. And Madlax spanked BL 7-1 in the finals. Wouldn't that make Madlax the best team in the country?

My son tried out for Brotherly Love yesterday. First time trying out for this squad. Considering they had their tryouts in July rather than August, was impressed. Had almost 50 kids there trying out for the 2024 team and a lot of talent. One dad said that a lot of kids that can't make it will be at there August tryout. Saw Roughriders, Freedom, NXT, and Dukes Helmet as well. Well run but long lines, too many kids. I was skeptical about Deniken being hands on but he was there the whole time taking notes. My kid isn't gong to make it unfortunately but based upon the kids trying out that weren't already on the team this team is going to be awesome with Deniken leading it, love that guy. Isn't a better coach around, better than most high school varsity coaches. Can't see people liking the Maplezone though. That place is a pain in the [lacrosse] to get there and the construction makes the other side of the moon closer than those fields. Going to Roughriders and Freedom tryouts in August, but don't see how these teams keep up with Deniken coaching that team and the talent that it is attracting let alone already there.

Genius, they have two 2024 teams. thats 44 kids right there. At some point they will leave to one of the top clubs

My son plays on the 2024 team. They are clearly the best 2024 Team in Philly and the only one invited to Elite Eight this past year. They just hired Paul Deniken as HC and based on the new talent that tried out are going to add some top notch players to an already very good team. I am curious why people would leave not trying to be adversarial at all. The club does a great job they have several outstanding teams. Most importantly they took all dads off the sideline considering the two they took off own the club, I applaud that move. What do you see as the deficiency?

Any thoughts on Dukes Nationals at this level. While you might not agree with them or like their model it seems to be working at 2023 and 2022 and above

Dukes nationals. Here is the lowdown on this team and organization. Absolutely phenomenal minicamps each and every month. The director is s nice guy but it is a very poorly run organization. The have a depth chart, which is basically your sons ranking broken down by position. It almost means nothing when you get to a tourney. You never know which new players are going to show up and take playing time away from your kid. They only have one coach per team. The kids that show up refuse to pass the ball, dodge into 5 guys, stick to the mini camps and avoid the tourneys

Buyer beware Dukes Nationals. We went up to Boston this spring and guest player after guest player showed up and played all game. The players that are wearing other travel team helmets are not part of the program/depth chart. It's a scam. Director plays favorites, plays his sons friends. It's a complete money grab. I agree with above, mini camps are great, but the kids at the mini camps will not be playing in the tourneys. Save your money and your gas and find another alternative.

How long are the mini camps what makes them good. Is it an option just to do them and skip tourneys?

Mini camps are 3 hours long. It's constant moving, high reps for the entire time. Tourneys are ala cart. So you can do what you want.

Trust those of us who have been involved with this program for years.
DO NOT DO IT
Seriously. Waste of time and money.
I find the only reason kids are out there is so daddy can say he's part of the team. There's about 60 kids on the team. It's not exclusive.
The playing time thing is accurate. They bring in ringers from all over the country and those that are on the team and depth chart watch their PT go to some double reclass from MD.
Skip it.

Dukes tells you up front it is competitive all the time. If your son isn't one of the best players, doesn't show up or doesn't improve on a regular basis, there are other kids that do. It is really that simple. Dukes is a team that rewards 1. the hardest working, 2. most talented, 3. kids that love to play and 4 kids that are great teammates. But the player has to be 4 out of 4. Its hard but the kids that make it have fun and love it. There is not room for every player out there. There will obviously be more kids that do not make it versus those that do. So yes, buyer beware. Its exactly what they say.

DN Coach: please address the situation where players show up to a tourney that have NEVER been to a tryout or minicamp but get playing time over kids on the team, on the depth chart. Thanks.

That's not true. Dukes plays favorites. Plenty of kids never ever ever show up at mini camps and take playing time. The whole thing is a scam. The model if actually utilized could be good, but it is far from utilized. Coaches change constantly along with kids that think they are Paul Rabil cause daddy says so. It is the most disgusting display of "ME" ball you will ever witness.

That is how my kid was selected. He wasn't at a mini camp but was invited to play in an event over a mini-camp and event weekend.They watched him play and liked him. Now he is part of Dukes. He really loves it. He goes to every camp we can get him to. At each event there are always new kids which makes it fun for him. He likes to compete. He has been all over the depth chart. The team does well and the "me" ball guy... seriously? these are 5th/6th graders... they are figuring it out and if my son plays selfishly, he is told just that. You sound a little peeved ... don't go back to Dukes but don't tell me its not a good program... They do exactly what they say... come to mini camp- show your stuff- see how it goes- they keep a lot of kids b/c its a year round program. My son can't get to everything and its OK bc there are a lot of kids who are working hard and having fun there. Its clearly not for you and your family.

Its pretty logical: the kids on the team love it, the kids not on the team don't. Just like life.

Come on Gonzo stop lying. Dukes Nationals is a scam and you know it. Get some real coaches that don't change every month and get rid of the daddy ball and maybe the double holdbacks will help you, because that's the only way you can compete with real AA Teams.

Not Gonzo, just a dad. The team that plays is the real team. Not a fake one. The coaches are doing just fine. They coach the kids not the parents. My son loves the coaches that coach him. I am guessing you don't and have never coached in any significant capacity otherwise you wouldn't be so upset. Your son is not a loser because he doesn't play for dukes or didn't make the team- however, you sir, are a loser. Not being able to separate your emotions from your son's is shameful and embarrassing. Move on to other pastures to sh** in.

Has Dukes Nationals ever played Brotherly Love at 2024? We played BL and hate to concede but they are a heck of a team.

Dukes nationals 2024 would get destroyed by brotherly love. Brotherly love plays like a team, they pass , and they are coached well. DN got beat this summer by a 4th grade team from Colorado because that team played as a unit and dukes just filled with kids that think they are the next super star. Dads on the sidelines all taking nightlight videos of their kids trying to go through 5 kids with a Team mates that are wide open. Of course if they ever played real teams, they would bring in ringers for that game to try and keep it close

Depends on the week. Dukes Nationals lineup changes for every event.

What tourney did they play a team from Colorado? I thought I saw somewhere the 2024 Team won a tourney. Are you eating that they lost to a 2025 Team from Colorado?

Dukes lost to 2025 doco from best of best tourney. In fact they got smoked. The tournament they just won in brick nj. Beat up on 4 th grade teams and c level 5th

Come on Stone plays for DN at 2024, he is the greatest player on the planet how could they ever lose.

I actually saw Stone or self anointed as the Chosen One play. He is a nice player with good skills, can go both hands smoothly, plays X well and has a some good moves and shot; however, he is not one of the top ten players at 2024. I also saw a kid with questionable foot speed and average quickness. Again he is a good player but hardly warrants calling him the Chose One and by all accounts jumps from club to club with little loyalty to anyone.

Why are you talking about an 11 year old boy? That's disgusting. But to your point, That boy is a playmaking machine. Makes everyone better

Ha. "Why are you talking about an 11 year old boy?! Let ME talk about an 11 year old boy!"

Seriously --- why ?? Because he's a top 20 player that has "ball"ed into every roster. BTW aren't you talking about him too ?? Just sayin..

Uh duh...isn't this a 2024 lacrosse forum isn't that boy a 2024 lacrosse player? What's disgusting is your insinuation. Such vitriol...it's ok DAD as I said he is a good player but nothing more bit of a quitter though. Where I come from you finish the season and don't quit until the season is over.

Actually. , I'm refuting the [lacrosse] negativity and adding that he is a team player for anyone that is negative. So I'm not talking about him the way others do. This kid is a class act with tireless work ethic.

I have a'24 and a '21 and believe me when I say that puberty changes everything.
7/10 studs when they're in 6th grade don't pan out three years later.
We've all see the chubby attack man with sick stick skills that scores all those goals, right? Spoiler alert: he keeps eating. His dad then shows to tryouts saying every team needs a big crease guy. Guess what? No they don't.
Those little, quick defensemen? You better be over 6' as a rising freshman to make a real team let alone see the field.
Coaches do look at you, daddies. They see you're a fat slob and you're 5'2". Trust me. They see a dad that 6'5" vs you and your kid, all things being equal, who do you think they take?
Hard realities, guys. Bigger stronger faster starts to level out your kid's ability to go BTB in a U11 rec game (sweet highlight reel tho!!!).
Pray for your kid to hit puberty early or do what is the norm now: reclass him.
Good luck.

You can't blame a kid for jumping from team to team. It's the parents that allow it to happen as they are the ones that drive to practices. word travels fast and sooner or later team looking to develop will not want to deal with the parents. Sounds like the parents have been trained by TD.

I watched him closely at the Elite Eight Tournament. Due to all the hype, videos, and Chosen One Tag (can't believe anyone would have the balls to call their kid the Chose One at 5th grade). I remained objective and open minded and agree with the other poster. He is a good player but lets be honest the Elite Eight Tournament was stacked with top notch players. There were 15-20 kids that I would take in a heart beat if I was forming a roster at 2024. Did he stand out amongst all the other stud players, no, in fact I am not convinced he was the best player on his own team. At least two of their middies were as good if not better than him. Just basing this over a weekend of top notch play at the 2024 level.

Sad but true

couple kids on that CO team were WAYYYY better than all of the older kids on 24s

Jeez. Get over yourself.

When and where was this tourney

This is dead on. Can't have a team of Pannells and think your going to succeed. Excited for these 1st grade all stars to take a seat and bring in some athletes. All the 5'6 dads can cry and moan al they want . It's over.

SO STUPID!!!! YOU SOUND LIKE A REAL WINNER... THIS IS EXACTLY WHATS WRONG WITH YOUTH SPORTS. UNEDUCATED PARENTS

This is not true if you name is Matt?? Matt Rambo, Matt Ward, Matt Cavanaugh, all under 6' all the best player in college lax in the years they led their teams. There is also a starting 5'7" attack for OSU. The key is shorter players learn how to play v. taller bigger players. Evidence does not suggest you need to be over 6' to be a great lax player. Work on you quickness, toughness, and most of all hit the wall!

Sounds like you have a fat attackman on your hands...Good luck

sounds like you are one of those IDIOTS who thinks he knows all, but knows nothing.

So- there might be 1 on a team.... awesome- good luck.

I'm looking for a 5'9 D pole. Said no coach ever.
Maybe an attack man or FOGO can get away with being smaller stature but come on, size is a factor. So is speed and quickness.
There are many exceptions, however, I think what the OP is getting at is puberty will change the game. I agree. Kids you've never heard of or seen play at a high level will literally come from nowhere and dominate. It is fun to see. What's even more fun is watching how the 6th grade superstar reacts to it. Does he elevate his game? Does he go to another team because he's not the man anymore? Does his daddy start bashing the organization and coaches because little Johnny isn't getting his PT or touches? It is very fun to watch.
No matter what, if you're on top as a 6th grader or on the third line of middies, hard work will be needed.

one of the best players to come out of Long Island (Sachem North) going to Maryland - well under 6" and so is his Dad. Sorry guys, size does not matter in all cases.

Hey 2024's aren't you lucky TD just added two 20 year old kids to coach your team and they are going to keep a "small" roster of 20...

Sounds like they both graduated MP in 2002. I'd then put them in their early to mid 30s? I'd be ok with that.
Twenty man roster? That doesn't sound like fun...But you figure each kid is an extra $2k for the team.
HHH carries a 25 man roster.

Sons is not going to be able to field any team below 23. the good players are already at established programs, why would they leave to play for a team run by some egomaniac who only cares about his kid.

The good players are already at established programs....LOL...the good players may not even be playing lacrosse yet....

6 kids at the Sons tryout tonight
#laceup

I'm surprised you all haven't whipped out your privates yet

my son's buddy ( on the team ) said the colorado team was like a bunch of midgets who wouldn't quit. SOme pro player's kid was on the team and scored like all the goals or something. 24s can't beat Colorado 25 team...regardless of their level? Boing...they aint it.

Preseason Rankings

1 Brotherly Love
2 Uprising
3 Freedom
4 Rough Riders
5 NXT

Roughriders beat Freedom this summer and the only local team to beat Brotherly Love. They should be #2

They can't beat uprising why should they be #2?

Has Uprising ever beat Brotherly Love? If RR is only local team to beat #1 then that makes them #2.

RR Beat Brotherly Love TWICE they should be #1

RR is classless...parents do calisthenics after a goal and don't even know the rules. Of course that doesn't stop them from yelling...Coaches are obnoxious...ACT LIKE YOU'VE BEEN THERE BEFORE.

That's Duncan's RR team right? Dude is a great coach.

Who is going to Victory's Tournament on the 22nd. Anyone from 2024

Brotherly Love

Looks like Elevated has some 2023 help today. Keep it classy in youth sports! You really gonna keep that trophy?? WOW

It’s simple, Elevated Lacrosse cheated their way to a trophie. They knew it and they didn’t care who else knew it. No respect for that program run by the West Chester youth program, makes you wonder what else they are doing.

What tourney did they play in that you think they cheated

Apparently they played in a 2024 Tournament today and they had at least 6 2023 players on there team . They had plenty of subs to not have to do that. West Chester youth lacrosse approved club team showing a great example ! I’m sure there board will love seeing this kind of publicity

West Chester fall invitational, they had 2023 kids on the team. I don’t think, I know.

I think a team dropped out so they had to scramble to find kids.

Why would a team dropping out cause them to scramble to find kids either you had 23 kids on the team or not

Yea a team dropped out so elevated decided it was ok to cheat. Never even heard of them till yesterday. They must be trying to fit in like Brotherly Love.

They did the same thing last year in box - had 7th graders on a 6th grade team.

I agree ! You either pissed your pant or you didn’t!

I guess there leaders / board allows this kind of behavior and is promoting it since it continues to go on.

They are trying to be relevant. They are a nice option, I have seen them cheat. The thing I never get is cheating like that in a local tournament with local kids, blatantly thumbing their nose at basic rules. Kids aren't going to recognize their classmates on the field? Of course Brotherly Love cheats, that one has gone on ad nauseam but nobody every cites specific examples. Last year we had one kid that wasn't a True 2024 by birth year but is a 2024 by grad year. We picked up like 5 kids so not sure of birthdates but they are all 2024. The 2024 Team has never had a 2023 kid, so let's hear it how are they cheating, I am sure you will find a reason. Could it be they are just simply better. Also have to say bringing in Paul Deniken and Mike Twohig was huge. Those two will take that team to another level, you would find be hard pressed to find a high school team with better caliber coaches...is their a PA based high school team that has better coaches than them??

Ummm it is cheating if they had 7 th grade 2023 players on the field . Cut and dry end of story.

This was at the West Chester Invitational. But looks like Elevated did it a couple of years ago at summer sizzle. Same thing 23s playing with 24s

The team cheated using kids from the same school district that the Director is a high school coach at. Way to set the example!!

How about getting excited that your kid had an opportunity to play against a good team with kids a few months older?
wth. It's a 2024 tournament.
Do you think losing in the championship game of a f'n out of season tournament is going to negatively impact your precious baby's future?!?
I am sure your kid is over it. You should be as well.

Yeah no. Are they being pansies on the board about it, yeah a bit.

BUT that doesnt change the fact that the WC team cheated to win and the other team was robbed. Don try to make it acceptable by lowering the bar due to out of season, your kids will get over it, etc.

Cheating is cheating. Period.

Agreed. It happens all the time and this kind of lapse in judgement is not acceptable in youth sports. I can understand, performance enhancing drugs, recruiting violations, etc. as there are literally millions of dollars hanging on the outcome of the NFL, Tour de France, NCAA etc. but come on youth sports.

My observation is that i seems to happen most from guys that are trying to make a living from lacrosse. Their very livelihood depends on a viable, competitive club to pay their mortgage....be careul with the clubs where the director/owner depends on the clubs revenue to put food on the table.....

not sure how you think Brotherly Love cheats. Not the 2024 team. All 6th graders, period. Sure there are some 12 YR olds but also a 10YR old. I was a bit confused by your post. However, agree that Paul and Mike are going to take that team to another level this season.

Couldnt agree with this more....when someone relies on income from their lacrosse club to live RUN, RUN FAR AWAY!

My Lord! A loss is a loss. Seems like every time a team loses people on here make an excuse that its only because 2023 players were playing on the other team. Guess what... If a player is 13 years old and still in the 6th grade and the tournaments they are playing in are still going by graduation year and not age then guess what...that 13 year old person should be playing on the 2024 team. How is that cheating?

I wonder if your son's 2024 team had 2023 players on it would you object and tell your coach that they were cheating. I already know the answer to this question.

Stop making excuses for loses. Learn from them and work to get better. PERIOD!!!

Tourney Schedule for NXT is out. Who rules at 2024. Have clubs changed players. See the Annapolis Hawks are coming that is a nice addition.

Question, has youth lacrosse switched from grade based teams to age based teams yet? Was that tournament fielding age based teams or grade based teams?

Guess what...if a kid is 13 and still in the 6th grade then they are supposed to be on a 2024 team if they are playing in a grade based tournament.

The only way they cheated was if they were playing in an age based tournament and not a grade based tournament. Otherwise, how did they cheat?

And if members of your son's team had 13 year olds who were still in the 6th grade would you object? Would you take your son off the team? Would you complain to the coach?

Dont answer that I already know the answers.

But Tad doesn't rely on his sons income to live 🤦🏻‍♂️

Looks like NXT may have established themselves as the best 2024 team in philly area

Based on what?

The Annapolis Hawks 2024 looked great at yesterday's tournament.

I am guessing that you are referring to beating Freedom and Brotherly Love. Dude get a grip.

You won a Fall Play Day, it's like one notch above a scrimmage. Only losers make a claim like that based off Fall Ball. Your team looked good no doubt but without your FOGO you are average at best. Freedom was missing like 4 of their best kids, I noticed that when we played them they were missing two of their best middies, FOGO, and attack from what I could tell. BL played average and uninspired but we have a whole new coaching staff. That is the worst our team has looked in years. Our best offensive player was on the sideline for a big part of the game, the Coach is obviously using the Fall to evaluate talent see what works. That is what Fall Ball is for.

Beat these teams in the Summer Tournament season when it matters and then you can make that claim. I mean Jesus haven't we beaten your team every time we played them for like 6 games in a row and some of them by blowouts?

I don't have a dog in this fight, but anybody that tries to rank teams based on Fall games, is a tool. The best athletes and star players are the ones with multi-sport conflicts. All it takes is one missing player to completely throw a team off.

If I thats the case, that’s a pretty bad team if one player means that much. Missing one or two players shouldn’t make that much of a difference, on s balanced team.

You are a tool as well. All teams at all levels the same principle applies. Since we are speaking of Lacrosse will limit to those examples. Duke without Jordan Wolf and Myles Jones, Notre Dame without Kavanagh and Sergio, Denver without Baptiste and Cannizzaro......

1-2 players can make all the difference in the world on a team

not to mention that BL only had one coach on the sideline. Happy for NXT. First time they ever beat BL.......enjoy it while you can.

NXT Fogo best Ive seen. Real difference maker.

NXT 2024 looked great against Crabs this weekend. Good group of boys playing better and better together.

Looks like NXT 2024 further cemented themselves as the best 2024 team in Philly

Did NXT 2024 go undefeated in the NXT spring league held at the proving grounds last Spring?

Hey NXT Dad...news flash: The boys are in 6th grade. All the press in the world won't make the kid grow.

Watched the kid play he is ridiculously good for a kid his age but he looks like he could be 3 years younger than the rest of the team. Being a FOGO at this age he is either destined to get burnt out or hurt. Once some of the bigger kids just start jamming him he will be in trouble. But for now live it up that NXT team will be solid with him once he moves on to play for a team that plays bigger tournaments they will be toast.

Thanks for the insight #laceup

Why is the NXT FOGO not playing with Dukes Nationals anymore? DN lost their best FOGO to the Bandits also. What going on at this age for G

Hey guy as a Philly Lax fan congrats on the win at autumn classic usually a very good tournament
But honestly that schedule was weak that Crabs Team is average at best. Notice their 2024 was the bottom of the barrel the previous year. Parity is good and makes us all better but let’s see what happens in the Spring and Summer if you win then go ahead and say you are the best, but say it after fall ball you just look silly. Take a look at inside Lacrosse they talk a ton about fall ball games but you don’t See anyone sayin they are the best.

Well according to other posts, the DN 2024 team has issues on and off the playing field. Maybe the family got tired of the circus!

Looks like they are playing at Victory against the top teams from Brotherly Love BBL
And Roughriders predictions?

It's fall who cares...

That’s a [lacrosse] poor attitude what are you depressed? Let me guess, that last promotion you thought was yours...didn’t get it did you.

All the good athletes are playing championship football and starting their basketball season. Be careful not to burn the kid out Daddy.

Saw the NXT kid in the spring he is a beast but will start to,struggle unless he grows by 8th grade.

Best FOGO I ever saw in person was summer after 6th grade the Panda kid for LI Express. Killed it every time. Saw him recently and big FOGOS are jamming him and hammering him. He is much less effective, still good but not dominating anymore.

2022 daddy here
It all changes in the next few years
The dominant FOGOs especially
Size matters there
And the chubby attackman start to lose effectiveness and are quickly sidelined
Tall poles, 2 way middies, monster FOGOs, athletic attackmen
Kids who used to rely on size to dominate are neutralized and become a liability
It's fun to see the kids that were small but skilled gain size and dominate those that owned them when they were 11
Enjoy the ride

Yea look at that kid who balled out in Middle School and now can't walk

I'm watching the chubby attackmen thing happen on my sons team.... lack of speed is becoming much more problematic than the positives that their size brings them. Hard when you're used to running through people....

All %100 true. My son is a good side D but not super tall so they moved him to LSM were his athleticism (must have gotten it from his mom) and good size are perfect he is tearing it up.

Used to be a above average close D but coaches looking for athletic tall monsters there now.

I am a 2024 parent and stumbled across this thread looking for summer camps. I read every comment and found myself disheartened by the whole thing but glad to see there are crazy parents everywhere not just on the team my son is on. BL is a darn good team and deserve the ranking at one. That being said they are teaching lessons I don't want my kids to learn. I hope the new coaching can clean up their BS. NXT has come out of no where in the past 2 years with a fogo that can't lose. Uprising is a solid club with solid coaching as is Freedom and RR.

My question is this. BL, NXT, Freedom and RR all pull from the same general part of Chester County. Where is the rest of the state? No teams from Delaware, Bucks and Montgomery Counties? Southern Lehigh High School made a good run at State championship a few years back. Where do they play club? Do all the main line kids play Uprising? Haverford School, Stoga, LaSalle, CB East and West. Where are they playing in 6th grade?
Imagine if some of these teams pulled together. Could they compete with the Madlax, Crabs and Loonies teams? Even the National teams?
Speculate all you want. Here are the rankings as they are playing each other right now in NXT Spring league.

Brotherly Love 2024 Hercules 6 0 0 18 20
NXT 2024 Black 5 1 0 15 29
Uprising 2024 4 2 0 12 10
Freedom 2024 Red 3 3 0 9 9
PA Roughriders 2024 3 3 0 9 2
Team 11 2024 1 3 2 5 -14
Tri State 2024 0 5 1 1 -16

I would love to hear what BS lessons they are teaching?

The answer is HHH which competes in the NLF against 91, Crabs, etc. HHH only plays summer tournaments, so most players play in spring for Uprising, Freedom, Rough Riders. The 2022 HHH team has players from all over (Mont Co, Del Co, Lehigh Valley, Chester Co). The 2024 team also is starting to see an influx of players from all over. Billy McKinney and the HHH staff focus on player development, not on middle schoolers winning tournaments.

Lol
HHH won’t play local teams for fear they will get smoked and people will realize the program isn’t that great. They play NLF and lose games 15-0...

If you ha
If you have played for them, against them, or near them you know what kind of shenanigans they have done in the past. New coaches, new blood. I will give them the benefit of the doubt. Can't wait to see what comes of this BL "national team". Looks like an attempt to move 1 or 2 boys to them from other clubs.

I don't see much of them at tourneys. I know some boys who have gone there and like the experience. I will keep them on the horizon. Thanks!

LOL? Big 4 HHH 2022 team only lost 3 games this past summer in the NLF (16-3 record). What other local club team had a better record against the top teams in the country?

HHH plays the same teams over and over again in the NLF. They are over rated and Billy's philosophy of "take a run" has become a joke. Just watch them and you will see that they play like they are at a showcase. Give the ball to the so called "super star" middies and let them "take a run" while multiple players are wide open. Don't pay attention to the HYPE!

So true. People are figuring it out. The top kids are all going to the Sons.

Top kids going to Sons? Hahahahaha!!!

Looks like 2 PA teams competing next weekend (30th) in east qualifier. Good luck to Brotherly Love and CW Elite. Thinking BL should finish top 2 (which is where you want to be coming out of the East qualifier)

BL and BBL both had pretty dominating performances in qualifying....wonder why Freedom wasn't there?

Freedom not an age based team nor is another solid team in the area NXT. They have a few holdbacks and that can change dynamics of team greatly. Brotherly Love on age and always have been for most part so easy for them plus have more depth. Have to be born September 1st or later in 2005 to play WYSL.

If Brotherly Love was a Maryland team they would be a 2025 team honestly......very few teams can play age based tournaments and stay competitive with Brotherly Love, BBL or the 2 Long Island teams at the 2024 le

BLLC very good 2024 Philly All-Star Team. 75% of those kids weren’t even on the team last year. This is Philly’s version of an All-Star Team. It would be like Express, Wolfpack, and Taz pulling the best kids on the Island and playing in a tournament! Imagine that happening!?!?!? BBL also very good but not the same Team without the two big kids. The East was very very very week this year. It will come down to the 3 LI Teams and the Philly All-Star team if they mesh and play well.

So here is the biggest problem that the WSYL faces - in order to be the most competitive tournament in the US you need to stay grade-based. I'm okay with holdback haters disagreeing with this, but here's the reality:

1. Some "holdbacks" were held back in school as a result of maturity and/or academics - this happens with MD, NY, PA and every other state in the country. This most likely happened in kindergarten or 1st grade. How do you stigmatize this example as a plot to improve your lacrosse team? You can't. It's not the kid's fault and, let's be honest, it was most likely a great move by parents who care for their kid.

2. Some true holdbacks take place in middle school years when a family makes a decision to place their son in PREP school. This happens on the island, in the MIAA, and in the Inter-Ac. Guess what? You can't do a thing about it except complain! Once that kid is held back, he's in that grade through high school. Talk about a double-holdback all you want, but at least in PA, you cannot play a varsity sport if you turn 19 before the school year begins, so it makes no sense to hold back a student twice. The main reason for this is because PREP schools do demand more from their students and acclimating to the demands constitutes the holdback. I get that sometimes it's athletic related, but you're talking about a special athlete in this case so spare me with it "happens all the time". I also know that PREP schools allow for a double-holdback but if this is your main argument about advantages, you're looking at a very small percentage of players.

3. PA players aren't drawing from the same geography as LI. LI has 7 million people on it. The best PA teams are located in an area of about 2 million people and I'm probably being too generous with that many. So what does that mean? It means that the LI teams will be better than the PA teams because they have a larger talent pool to choose from. Case in point: This years's BL team has been put together over a few years and is a combo team from a few different clubs. It was not homegrown talent. Also, the PA Big 5 team from last year (2023) was a combo team that included players from multiple clubs - it was a one-off team that doesn't exist anymore. The Big 5 team did well as an all-star club team but didn't reach the final with the best talent Philly had to offer.

4. The big name teams from PA, DE, MD, DC, and WV were not well represented in the East Qualifier. As a matter of fact, some of the teams that went, play in B level summer tournaments. What's the point of having a tournament where you can't get the best teams there? Wait, that's right, the NLF can claim that already. While I agree that this includes some holdback challenges, it also may have to include the fact that you have to shell out quite a few bucks to go to Denver, and pass up you're 4th of July for the year. Where are the HoCo studs (Hawks, Madlax, Looney's, FCA, Crabs, etc)? How about the PA Inter-Ac feeders (Mesa, HHH, Freedom, Duke's)? Don't be offended if I didn't list your son's team - I think you get the picture.

The East qualifier was a joke this year - the top two teams both pitched a shut out and both won games by double digits - that's not competitive. It's great for the families who have a kid on the team, but how do you tell your son, after he does well at the WSYL then comes home and gets beat at the NLF National Championships, if you are invited there, that your team isn't as good as they were in Denver? You tell them it's all about holdbacks right? Then does your kid gets a pass for losing the rest of his middle school and high school career? Because of holdbacks, hahahahahaha...

I get puberty plays a part in this, but puberty hits in a small window in/around 7th grade. Maybe a team or two get an advantage with puberty for a summer, but it will all even itself out in the long run. I bet some of you would go crazy if the WSYL drilled down their event even further to say: only age-based players who haven't hit puberty are allowed to play saying it's "not fair". Maybe if you're kid is a late-bloomer you'd support a puberty-free tourney? I don't know...

I was inclined to post this after seeing the East Qualifier scores - it was very disappointing to see the lack of talented teams and the lack of competitive games.

WSYL has to switch to grade-based to stay viable. Warrior already has their All-America games where it's grade based so I think the writing is on the wall.

Disclaimer - I have an on-age son playing for a top club team in SE Pennsylvania - he's not a 2024. When he goes up against bigger/faster/stronger I've taught him to find a way to be successful - he's a better player for it!

Agree with a lot of what you said here but not all. WSYL is a marketing gig. The team that wins will be very good if not one of the top teams at 2024, the top 4-6 teams out in Denver will all be very good teams at this age level. Most of the teams are not "Teams", they are core groups with bolt on's or completely made up teams for this event (maybe 2 or 3 clubs pooling kids together) or like a Team Israel which is just a bunch of kids who won't even know each other before that weekend. When we went, my son knew that. We went for the experience and it was definitely a lot of fun for parents and kids. No other tournament right now at the Youth level offers the "experience" that WSYL does. There was also some good lacrosse (not the best, but mostly competitive). For the clubs, its a nice little revenue generator and exposure item, for the kids it's a great memory, a bond with kids they will have forever and a nice (expensive) vacation for families. I don't think they have to change their format as long as clubs continue to buy into the marketing or see it as it is. A lacrosse experience tournament. As soon as you open it up to grade based. I was also surprised at the gap between the 2 top teams in the east and the remaining 3 that qualified. Those 3 are definitely just chalking this up to the experience as they will never make it out of pool play. There will be teams that don't qualify in the North that would beat handily the 5 seed in the east....

The top teams not represented have made a decision not to alienate kids/parents by excluding them to attend this "experience" tournament and play in more competitive events with their team. there is nothing wrong with either IMO.

Good point - I hadn't fully taken into consideration the experience aspect of this. I gathered my opinion based on teams I saw competing and some of the banter from other forums here. I'm definitely in support of the experience and "grow the game" component to the Denver opportunity. I think you're insight points to an important part of youth sports that is overlooked as many only look at the competition side of it (which I was). I think folks should take time to see this as an experience then, instead of what many have labeled it as: a "true" determination of the best 202X team in the country.

I think people take issue with the claims that WSYL make and promote about the best 13u teams and the way some clubs choose to promote their success. People need to be real about what this event is and isn't. It's a great experience with some good/great lacrosse. It's not the best 13u players in the world or the best 13u teams in the world....I agree we get so hung up about rankings and competitiveness we forget about the fun.

Wow. Bro, you got a whole lot of hot air going on there. Not one of your points. Not a single one, and anyone with a shred of common sense is laughing at all of them right now.

You're obviously one of those parents that never played the game, with a casual interest in the activity that your son is doing, but in reality you have no clue what you are looking at, or the factors that you list. But keep making up excuses for your kids team.

I could go through all of your little points, and make a donkey out of you in regards to every single one, but to tell you the truth, it's not worth my time.

Let's boil it down to one question. You are saying that the WSYL is not the best collection of 13U teams. So my question to you is, which teams are missing??

What you apparently don't realize is, there are very few elite 13U teams.

When you go to an NLF tourney, 2024 bracket, you are watching almost entirely 14U teams, except for the occasional one that would have to go under 15U. You really don't know that??

Every top tier team from MD, VA, DC, MA are 14U teams, WITHOUT EXCEPTION.

If they weren't, they'd be at the qualifier, because parents don't make the decision on whether they want to go, or if they can afford to go. That decision is made by the clubs. You put it on a credit card and you go. And there is no club, ANYWHERE, that wouldn't enter this tournament, if they qualified. There is only upside for the clubs, no down side, and the upside is... HUGE.

So, coming from a person that actually does know a whole lot about the landscape of 2024 club lacrosse... I can assure you that every top 2024 on age team (13U) will be at the WSYL, WITHOUT EXCEPTION.

2024 cheating teams that horde holdbacks, like all of the MD HoCo teams, which are comprised almost exclusively (or in some cases, entirely) of holdbacks, will not be there.

Understand? This tournament is for the 2024 kids that should actually be in the 2024 grade, and not 2023 or 2022.

So, next time you feel like writing a short story for a post, please make it on a topic where you have some expertise, because 2024 club lacrosse is obviously not one of them.

For the record, Long Island is considered Nassau and Suffolk county, the total population of both combined is under 3,000,000, not the 7 million you state, Holdbacks on L.I. is not a common occurrence because there are no Prep Schools on L.I. , the closest we have is Catholic Schools. Pennsylvania, on the other hand, does have the Classic prep school where holdbacks are a staple. Just to clarify your obviously uneducated post

Easy bro! I made very realistic observations. I played college lax and understand the game as well as the club climate in Philly, MD and LI at multiple grade levels. You’ll have to reread what I posted and then read your response - you will see that you are proving my point - you are sweating “holdbacks”. My point on these holdbacks is that the majority of them (I’d estimate 80% or more) were held back early in their school years and that it’s nobody’s fault. You can’t get away from holdbacks once they reclass, so why not stink it up and play them? Oh and in case you missed it, this is a forum to discuss lax so I can post as much content as I’d like (but your rebuttal is quite long, is it not?).

You can try to pick apart my insights but you’ve already proved what I’ve said about, as you called them, “cheaters””. Remember, my son is on age and we don’t sweat these teams that carry all the “holdbacks” - most teams have a few, but what do I know since everyone is laughing at my comments hahahahaha. So what I am saying, and the other poster agreed already, the WSYL is not, in any way, a collection of the best players in the country because many “on age” players who play with holdbacks on teams that are solid don’t go to the WSYL. Look at the qualifiers - as I discussed with the other poster, there are weak teams trying to make it. I understand the idea of going to an experience with some good teams. There are various ways to go to this tournament so it’s not necessarily a club decision (I.e. Philly Big 5). Seriously, did you even read my post? Sorry if this ruined your day. By the way, to reiterat one more time, my kid is an on-age starter on a top-level team (posting again since it looks like you missed that),, we only worry about him having fun and getting better at a game he loves. Appreciate you responding in a mature and well thought out way though...

Ok, original poster again... I'm dealing with two stunands so this will be my last post, but please feel free to educate me further since I don't have a clue. To the first stunad, I was making an argument for a GRADE-BASED WSYL so that they could truly get the best 7th graders playing in the same place at the same time. I was basically saying the complaining about holdbacks has to stop. I was taking a pro grade-based stance, an opinion. You threw mud. I love when my son goes up against older boys because HE likes the challenge.

To stunad two Long Island has a population of almost 8 million people now - you can find this information in multiple ways on the internet. I do my homework before I post. Please tell me you don't live on the island. Also - you are telling me that no one on the island holds back their kids in kindergarten or 1st grade due to academic, social, or development issues? If you think that the answer is no, then you are truly one of the dumbest people on the planet. I talked about different types of holdbacks. ALL teams have holdbacks. All of them. Some have more than others - my point is: who cares?

The two of you stunands chose to pick and choose arguments that make no sense. Thankfully, I was able to have a decent discussion with someone on this thread who made good counterpoints (to witch I agreed with to a certain extent).

You have so many inaccuracies, it’s hard to decide upon which one needs correcting the most. Ok. For starters, let’s go with your excuse for why LI teams are so much better than your sons lame team, and it has nothing to do with 8 million people. Since this all started in 2nd grade, there have been two dominant LI teams in 2024 lacrosse. Taz and WP. They both are based in Suffolk County, which is by far the least densely populated county on LI. The home base for both clubs are approximately 4 to 5 miles from each other. 90% of the players on both teams live within approximately an 8 mile radius of where they practice. So the two best teams draw from the exact, very small area, and NOT a pool of 8 million people as you would like to suggest. You’re going to have to come up with a new excuse as to why your area of the country is so weak, because the 8 million people excuse doesn’t fly. LI is synonymous with the best lacrosse anywhere. I know it. You know it. Everyone knows it. It’s always been that way. And always will be that way. That’s the only excuse you need. I’ll devalue the rest of your uninformed comments tomorrow.

Yo. Stop with the verbal vomit. Blah blah blah. Answer the guys question. What top 13u team will be missing from the qualifiers? Simple question.

I am as well versed as probably anyone on the 2024 teams, so I’m going to give you a very discrete little hint. NONE.

This is not about whether you mind your kid playing against holdbacks or not. Personally I think it’s a positive having good players play up, if they are capable. Playing down is a whole different conversation but we’ll hold that for another time.

Plain and simple, almost every top team is over 50% holdbacks, and most are more like 80% holdbacks, or even more. Simply, these teams don’t have the numbers to field a 13u team without their holdbacks.

Are you following? Not about what I think of holdback teams. It’s about 13u players.

DMV HoCo elite division teams have almost no 13u players. No 13u players means no WSYL for you.

So. Back to the same question. You claim that not all top tier 13u teams will be at the qualifiers. What teams will be missing???

I'm the poster you had the decent discussion with. I am sure LI has hold backs, but it's probably a lot less than PA because NY has a year-end cut off date for Kindergarten so you don't have all these summer birthday's starting K later.

Also, important to remember, the first year of the WSYL, it was a 4/1 cutoff and then it got moved to 9/1. That changed things drastically for clubs in PA that could no longer bring kids with the summer birthdays. You can always add 4-5 players to fill in, but that stinks for the 4-5 summer birthdays who now don't get to share the experience with their teammates....Big 5 was a great example of clubs putting kids first and allowing them to play together for the opportunity. Lack of practice time together proved to be a difference maker against a real team like Team 91. BL looks like they were able to remove that issue, so have high hopes for them out in Denver.

Not once did I downplay the fact that LI has strong lax teams - and I’m not fixated on just 24’s. Truth be told, Taz is strongest Legacy team. 91 Wolfpack has been strong from the jump at ‘24 and other age groups and ‘24 Express is not as strong but Express usually fields tremendously good talent. I’m not bashing LI (never did) - it’s a lacrosse hotbed. However, there’s a PA kid facing off now for one of the 3 teams I mentioned at the ‘24 level for WSYL, but let’s not get into that since you can’t even understand that my original post didn’t talk explicitly about one club area but you made it about LI. Since you nailed the population of LI, you probably know the kid and team I’m talking about. Guarantee on your next post you won’t address this fact. Not one excuse about my son’s team, but know this, he’s played 91 and Express at his age group and both teams would love to add him as he’s more than held his own when he plays them... haven’t played Legacy yet. Oh and let’s nit forget that the top teams in LI draw hundreds of players to their tryouts - not on club in Philly can get that many kids out to tryouts because there are more players to choose from in LI. Make sense? Guessing no... you win points for getting me to respond again after I said I wouldn’t - nicely done

My theory why is that in PA, a lot of our best athletes still don't play Lacrosse (or at least don't start young), while on LI they do. I also don't see our clubs practice as much as the LI teams (probably various reasons for this).

Why does the WSYL need to be in Denver? Wouldn’t it make more sense to move this to Long Island, Philadelphia, or Baltimore? You know where the game is established and would draw more top teams.
The need to grow the game sometimes seems like a need for more money. Stay on east coast...build the product up so when it does spread it’s a well oiled machine.

BLLC team majority of kids been together. A year ago team got stronger adding some key kids but the reason now dominant because playing age based teams. They have wins over a lot of top teams in 2024 but just couldn't finish off tournaments. This is not an all star team from Philly. Freedom and NXT have quite a few very good players not on this team. The 3 top teams in Philly do not get along that is why a FOGO from NXT going to LI team (come on LI seriously). Now are they the best team in the area yes I would say that.

It is comical that WSYL would let a kid from suburban PA play for a NY based team...

I thought he went to the Warrior All America tryout for team Long Island North. The WSYL rules state "All players must reside within 100 miles of the home field of their program" which is borderline.

Comical is that said LI team would actually bring in kid from PA. Kid from PA is a terrific person and player but cmon. Has to be with in 100 miles so its all with in the rules but its kind of sad.....and even worse is the other LIE FO kid is terrific.

Good question. The answer is because Jake Steinfeld has a close personal friendship with the owner of Mile High stadium, who is also the owner of the Denver Broncos and the Denver MLL team. They’re in it together. So the venue won’t be changing anytime soon, in all likelihood.

Come on, guys. Let’s redirect all this negative energy to a topic we can all agree on and truly deserves it — The Duke’s Forum! It’s been days since anyone really bashed that program, and it just doesn’t feel right.

In all seriousness, congrats to the clubs and families going to Denver. The kids are age on, excited to go, and the families apparently can afford it. And a special shout out to the BL kids who are probably reading all these posts. Nicely done, good luck and have fun. Philly will be cheering you on!

Plausible excuse is suppose.

But don’t forget, if your team is not a holdback team, your benchmark is not any of the DMV holdback teams that are a year older than your kids team. The HoCo elite teams are 80% or more holdbacks. If you are comparing apples to apples, you compare your sons team to Taz and WP who have no holdbacks. Those two teams are the only elite teams without holdbacks, unless you can throw your hat into that ring. If you can, then your sons team is prob better than you think, if you are comparing it to 2024 age teams, vs 2023 age teams.

You got it backwards, friend. The LI team didn't "bring in" the PA kid. The PA kid wanted to play on a LI team. The PA kid solicited the LI team, not the other way around. Personally, I see no problem with it. The kid thinks he's good enough to play on a LI team. He picked the team that he believed to have a need for what he does. Apparently he is correct. And, by the way, I'm quite sure this is not a WSYL-only player. I believe he is a regular year-round player on the team now.

Ok Long Island dad I was at a box tournament where BL beat Taz then lost to BBL in finals in February this year. I know you will say not field but I have never even seen BL in a box tourney before. So 2 on age teams finished ahead of Taz. BL is the most physical team out there. Sloppy with ball at times and will get penalties but I can tell you they can play with your LI teams and so can BBL.

BBL are physical at every age, most of there teams are much bigger loaded with older kids. For WS they held an open tryout to replace the kids they were losing.

Plus, we play lacrosse in LI, Phila and MD all summer....Denver is beautiful and has legalized Rec marijuana....why shouldn't it be there. Have I mentioned no humidity....and legalized pot....

The venue will be changing and it will be this year. They are moving it to University of Denver for the smaller lacrosse only venue. Makes all the sense in the world.

You are so notIntelligent it hurts even read your post, for starters I also read the population report you did that includes Queens and Brooklyn as part of L.I., which, theoretically they are, but are actually part of the 5 bores that make up N.Y.C. and are not counted towards the population of the non N.Y.C counties that make up what is known to everyone with a brain as Long Island. You obviously do not have a brain so we will discount your stupidity on this subject. As to to second part of your ridiculous post, yes some parents on L.I. chose to have there children , born late in any year, held back in Kindergarten or first grade. This is a far different reason than parents from Maryland and Pennsylvania hold there kids back in the 8th grade for athletic reasons. Please try and grasp the simplistic reasoning to both of these points, I know it must be hard for you, but try

[quote=Anonymous]BLLC very good 2024 Philly All-Star Team. 75% of those kids weren’t even on the team last year. This is Philly’s version of an All-Star Team. It would be like Express, Wolfpack, and Taz pulling the best kids on the Island and playing in a tournament! Imagine that happening!?!?!? BBL also very good but not the same Team without the two big kids. The East was very very very week this year. It will come down to the 3 LI Teams and the Philly All-Star team if they mesh and play well. [/quote


This sleepy 2024 PA Forum has become a bit of a train wreck in the last few days. Just wanted to set the record straight. BL is not an All Star team and 75% not on the team last year isn’t close to an accurate statement. Not sure where this is coming from, but it’s a little disparaging and entirely fake news. The starting goalie, starting defense line, starting LSM and starting attack line players have all been on the same team for well over a year, and in most cases since the club started several years ago. Same is true for most of the second line in those same positions, too. The vast majority of the team lives within a relatively concentrated geography in southeast PA in the West Chester area. The significant change that occurred is that a handful of players (mostly midis) joined BL last year and several players left (mostly midis). The new players from last year have been a great addition and are all fully rostered and committed families to the program. There are still plenty of great players in Southeast PA that play for other clubs, including NXT, Freedom and other programs, and a few in the area are traveling 90 miles and playing on the N.Y. teams. If BL was a true All Star team and pulled from those other clubs, too, then yes I would agree that Philly would really have an All Star team.

Bro, for the last time, read slowly so you absorb it all... I never made this a LI issue but you can’t help trying to redirect it there. Go back and reread my post. I actually said nice things about LI lax. You got fixated on population which was not a major part of my PA post (this is the PA forum after all). You just 100% supported my original post with holdbacks. Again - go back and read my original post as slow as possible - ask someone for help if you don’t understand parts of what I said. When you go back and reread you’ll see I posted about different types of holdbacks and then you’ll see that i’ve Touched on what you just posted above... I also didn’t say I agree/disagree with 8th grade athletic holdbacks because I don’t care about holdbacks. After reading again (it may take you 2-3 times to fully grasp what I said) you’ll know how dumb your responses have been... oh and as predicted, you didn’t touch my post about the PA kid facing off for a LI team. No need to apologize for your stupidity - I knew where you stood after your first post.

Brotherly Love 2024 poached players for years leading up to this year. Last year they built the academy to poach more players and it worked. As an example, the top PA RoughRiders 2024 players were all absorbed into BL over the years (goalie years ago, attack and middies after this past summer). BL is an all-star team and the guys who run it have no problem taking players from other clubs (until things didn’t go WG’s way and he left). Smart move with the academy to build this all star team - they should do well at WSYL.

No offense, but you PA guys are boring. Talking about a bunch of little poh dunk teams that nobody cares about, as if any of them mean anything in the landscape of 2024 club lacrosse. So long fellas.

I agree. The problem is the one person that cares deeply is the BL marketing director/owner. Trolling this board with propaganda about BL being an allstar team, crying about NXT fogo playing for LI team, and holdbacks. This is right out of his playbook especially being able to do it anonymously. This is worse than the Dukes National marketing machine because you are right. No one cares.

Summary of the conversation:

Top U13 vs. Top 2024: We know they aren't equal. The reality is we play in a 2024 world. The WSYL will crown the top U13 and many of the teams playing in it will be the top U13 teams. It will mean nothing before and after the WSYL because there aren't other tournaments that have an age cutoff and actually enforce it. Kudos for Long Island for having more true U13 teams and competing at a high level if not the highest in the 2024 lacrosse world. When all these kids get to High School it won't matter any longer.

BL is an all-star team. BL went to Denver 2 years ago with a combo of their 2022/2023 squads so they knew what needed to happen to take their next entrant further. They went out and found the kids to do that and brought them in so as to ensure these kids had some time to gel as a team. This is no different than what 75% of the better WSYL teams have done (albeit, the others probably just assembled them in the last 6 months or so). This team will do well in Denver and will continue to do well in the 2024 club scene assuming they continue to play as a team in it.

It's a good discussion and argument, shame it devolved into insults but that's BOC.

FLID d0uche alert!!

Last years WSYL champion was the 91 Bandits. Likely the only true “team” (no outsiders brought in) at the tourney. 2024 91 Wolfpack will be doing the exact same thing this year, playing with their true Wolfpack team (no WSYL-only players). I don’t know of another team that will be doing that. Certainly none on LI. 91 takes a bunch of heat on here, since they are such a big target, but you have to give them a lot of credit, not bringing ringers in for the WSYL, because they have a large pool from two 2023 teams that they could pick from, if they so desired. They could easily run away with that trophy, but they choose to do the right thing. Wish there were alot more clubs like 91 out there.

91 is the only true team not using just WSYL players?!?!? Are you kidding me!?!?!? I won’t mention his name on here but you took one of our starting midfielders this year. Do you actually think he walked away from a scholarship and is now driving 90 miles for any other reason than to win the WSYL. Love the kid but his parents are insane. We will find out soon enough if (his parents) made the right decision.

I love the word "poached" like kids are property of a team. As a BL parent it was a great idea that they stopped using insurance salesman as coaches and it worked. Would you rather your 2k go to a Dad coach who no matter what is going to focus on his kid or a team that has guys that actually make a living coaching lacrosse. Go to any BL clinic and see Mueller, Bates, Adams, Noone, Towhig, Poppelton and Denikin coaching is very impressive definitely way more bang for the buck. Not sure how you could possibly argue the model they have built and I am sure more teams will try and follow suit....

You need to understand something, jealous, spiteful BL parent. First, the pack didn’t “take” anyone. The boy went to tryout and earned a spot on the WP roster, just like any other new player. This boy committed to Wolfpack knowing that there was a very good chance that he wouldn’t be eligible to play in the WSYL with WP because of the distance criteria. They didn’t get confirmation of his eligibility until late Fall. This is fact. His interest in playing for WP has nothing to do with the WSYL. This has been a dream for quite some time. It is not a 2019-only interest. Both he and his family are absolutely top notch people and a welcome addition to the pack family. For his family, it made more sense to drive to LI for practices and be on a truly elite team, then to drive to Philly, for an above average team, when the trip to LI wasn’t that much further, based on where they live. Trust me. The family made the right decision, but that decisciin has nothing to do with one tournament in Denver.

Agreed, kids leave teams all of the time for greener pastures, better coaching, whatever...it will be even worse next year with 8th grade and high school looming.

And go to any tournament and see dads actually coaching the teams for BL. None of those guys mentioned will be there other than the clinics.

My kid has been coached by 5 out of Seven of those guys at a tourney in Maryland and this past weekend. Might want to do some research before making things up

Hey unoriginal bastage, the BL model you speak so highly of is the model Duke’s Nationals has followed for years! Granted poorly run but BL stole the idea so stop pretending they (you) came up with it! BL is a version of Duke’s but at 2024 they aren’t as good as Duke’s 24 and will get hammered by WSYL favorites. They won’t even play in the final 8

I am a parent of a non BL or BBL team that was at regionals in Delaware. Both BL and BBL are very big athletic teams. They can play with Long Island teams who I have seen. Different types of teams than Long Island top 2 teams but will be interesting to see who wins. BL has a couple more skill players than BBL was the difference in my opinion between those 2 teams.. They have a couple kids who are very fast and hard to cover on offense. Both have stout solid defenses. I talked to a BL parent and asked are these kids really on age in a somewhat joking manner. They said yes of course and that this was their first tournament of the year. I guess they wanted me to feel worse about the game LOL.

So the "coach" is a revolving door of coaches depending on who can show up and then when they can't a dad takes over. Thanks for the info

Nope not at all.
My son has been coached by Deniken, Noon, Mueller, and Tohig at the tournaments and practices for the last year. Never a dad as hc. But if it helps you sleep at nite. By all means keep telling yourself the club is doing the old bait and switch.

none of this matters. and i can't figure out why anyone outside of BL cares. this is all standard issue stuff. owner throws above market rates to attract coaches. Respectable coaches show up and the marketing machine churns. No different than any other club trying to build buzz. If it works for the kids, parents and coaches who the heck cares how they do things. They were solid before these guys showed up.

they are a good team, have good coaches, are on age(2024), qualified for the WSYL, the field was weak, LI poaching fogo's blah blah blah. A LI team has won it every year so you can all star team crap you want. None of this will matter.

Thats one team and your experience. Not true for the rest of the club

Would love to see BL or BBL win the whole thing. Things would quiet down considerably on these boards. It's definitely not out of the question.

Calm down there daddy-o! Happy hour has obviously already started in PA. What, exactly has either of your teams won? Have either ever won a tourney against any meaningful teams? Any?? Ever??? I’ve been to a whole lot of tournaments over the past 7 years, and I’ve never seen either team in a championship game, or even in what I would call a competitive game, with my sons team. Come on back to earth now gentlemen. Your little teams are average to above average, at best.

Enjoy it now..because we know what is going to happen to your son's team when they play the grown-ups in the NLF...just ask the 91 Bandits

FYI. WP crushed it at the North Qualifier last weekend. Trounced every team they played. Beat Legacy 9-2 in the championship. No team scored over 2 goals against them. No ringers. No holdbacks. Just the same 22 players they always play with, whether WSYL or NLF. They are going to run the table this year.

The cheater teams shouldn’t be a problem for WP. Most of the teams they have played to date have been ‘23 teams which are far better than the MD ‘23 cheater teams trying to disguise themselves as ‘24 teams. To date, the Pack is undefeated, without a single competitive game. There’s no shame in losing to teams a year older, but that likely won’t happen. They aren’t Crush and they aren’t Bandits. They are Wolfpack.

Let's revisit this conversation at the end of July, in the meantime, best of luck at the WSYL

Actually, it is.

After what I witnessed from the BL allstar team yesterday at the Mesa play day it's clear they have work to do if they think they can compete at the WSYL.

to funny..

BL did take top kids from other programs last year which is why several players left. the owner could care less about how it hurt other competitive programs in the Phila Area....new parents didn't care either. That all said, it didn't work as evidenced by their disappointing performance at WSYL. All that money and stress for what? Hopefully the boys on the team have learned a good lesson for life.....when they are NOT playing lacrosse.

Seemed quite obvious to me that the BBL team that went to the WSYL was not a "regular" BBL team. First, they were a lot better than the regular 2024 team. Second, the team was enormous. I'd say that close to 90% of the team was 5'11" or better. Their "regular 2024 team" is not nearly that big. And they were definitely not bean pole kids. That's usually a pretty good indicator that something is up. I don't know many 6 foot 7th graders. Having 20 of them, is definitely strange.

But the real truth came out when the team played. It's a good team. Very powerful (older), obviously, but skills were good for the most part.
However, their offense was NOT good. The only offense was either an isolation or an isolation with a draw and dump. That's it. No plays. Basically a two man game at best. No ball movement at all.

Why would that be, if a team has big strong and talented players?? There are only two plausible explanations for this. The first one is that the coaching staff is absolutely horrible. They don't implement any plays, and they basically don't coach. The kids just go out and "play". While this is certainly one of the possibilities, I don't think this is the reason. I'm quite sure that the coaches are quite capable.

The only other reason why the offense is not near as good as it should be is because the team doesn't have any plays, or formations, simply because the team hasn't had any practices to put such things in. It's simply a team of as many 2023 age-eligible kids they can find, and some from their 2024 team, and other teams too. It's a WSYL-only team.

The idea is they get the biggest and best age-eligible (Fall 05 babies) players they can find and go with that, and forego the practices, since all of the players play on different teams, coordinating a few practices would prove impossible.

Mystery solved. Good 2023 team for the most part. I'm sure there are a few 2024's too, to be fair. But everything adds up to a WSYL-only team, that has had basically no practices. The older/bigger team will do well against mid-tier AA teams, but not true skill "TEAMS" that play like a TEAM.

I highly doubt they broke any rules, and I'm sure that most other WSYL teams did exactly the same thing, but just not as well as BBL did it. But not quite well enough.

I understand your feeling of disillutionment about how your team fared at the WSYL. It's only human nature to find reason and explanation. I'm not sure I wouldn't do the same. Having said that, you only have to download the WSYL App as it lists the roster of every team. Since you're seeking some sort of truth, my advice is to look at those names and simply match them up the the jerseys (which has them printed on the back) of their 2024 team that you regularly play in tournaments and know that they are born after Sept. 1 2005. If you want to check what grade they are in, ask your kids to search and follow them on Instagram. After all that, I hope you find inner peace and answers to the questions that you seek. Also, try to keep things in perspective.. that this is youth lacrosse.

Not sure what you are referring to about BL but here with some facts. The BL team went 6-1. Lost in quarter finals to a team that played in the championship game. The boys had an over the top experience and enjoyed every minute of it. No one came home with any regrets or lessons to be learned. It was great lax and a great experience. . End of story.
Take your BL drama somewhere else..

Crazy right? The tournament and everything associated with it is1st class and an absolute blast. Amazing scenery, no humidity, legal pot....

What this does show is that Long Island still dominates this sport on age. The best athletes play lacrosse on the island, they practice ALOT and having a team that plays together for a long time clearly has a benefit.

Everyone wants to say the rest of the country is catching up, but it’s really not happening. The rest of the country is getting better at lacrosse and top players from some bordering states can go toe to toe with best players from LI, but lacrosse is a team sport and LI has the best on age teams.

And Team 91 dominates the youth landscape winning 3 of the 5 years.

2020 Team 91 - Crush
2023 Team 91 - Bandits
2024 Team 91 - Wolfpack

No holdbacks.
No 2023’s
No guest players
No WSYL-only team

One team for holdback lacrosse. Same team for WSYL.
70% of team has been together since the beginning, in 2nd grade.

Not saying anyone cheated or even did anything deceptive. No disrespect intended, in fact kudos to the #2 team in the event. Most teams did the same thing creating a WSYL-only team. Just pointing out that there are significant drawbacks to doing that. The biggest one being the teams don’t play like true “teams”, like real teams would. If that was a true “team”, in all likelihood they would have won the whole thing.

BL, BBL, True all looked solid. I think they all went 6 and 1 and beat Long Island teams. The top 2 Long Island teams just deeper and more experienced at this point, but I think those 3 teams will give Legacy and Wolfpack better games in the future as they get the experience and add couple kids.

they went 6 and 1 fyi.

Not saying anyone cheated or even did anything deceptive. No disrespect intended, in fact kudos to the #2 team in the event. Most teams did the same thing creating a WSYL-only team. Just pointing out that there are significant drawbacks to doing that. The biggest one being the teams don’t play like true “teams”, like real teams would. If that was a true “team”, in all likelihood they would have won the whole thing.
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Whenever someone says no disrespect the intent is definitely to disrespect. You have some great theories but none are based in fact. You claim that this can't be a true "team" but BBL scored 2 goals in the qualifier championship and yet averaged high double digit goals in this tournament and was tied 5-5 heading into the 4th quarter vs the eventual champion who demolished everyone else. Seems like you would need a miracle for that kind of progress with no practice and a team of kids who don't know each other. I know you hope its not true but this is the BBL team you will see for years. Oh, and by the way the top teams in this tournament all want to play each other and not make excuses. Hopefully you can find the right level of competition for your son. Will make things more enjoyable...for all of us.

You’re putting Legacy in the same category is Wolfpack?? Did you see the championship game? Those two teams are in two completely different levels.

If what you are saying is accurate, and I’m not saying it is, then BBL has a serious problem with their coaching. BBL was able to beat inferior teams with size alone, playing biggie ball with a 4th grade mentality offense... big guy goes to goal. No ball movement at all. Same thing for every team played, based on parents from the different teams. Never going to beat a good defense or a skilled ball movement offense with that mentality, at this level. Having said that, maybe you can explain to all of us how a pure 7th grade team is 80%+ 5’11” or better. The only team I’ve seen that is comparable size-wise to that team is the Annapolis Hawks team which, as everyone knows, is 80%+ holdbacks. For what it’s worth, that strategy works better for BBL then it does for the Hawks. Hawks are not nearly as good as your boys. Advise: Find a real offensive coach.

I know this is entertaining fodder but why are you so obsessed with BBL? Did we wrong your son or team in any way? Why does height matter if they proved that they are on age. WSYL has strict proof of age requirements. We're doing just fine with our coaches, you can keep yours and their awesome play book. I'm sure your team moves the ball really well and crushes the competition. Advice: worry about your own team, unless they're already ranked #1 in which case, you can afford to dole out advice, that's if anyone would listen. Any other questions?

Not saying anyone cheated or even did anything deceptive. No disrespect intended, in fact kudos to the #2 team in the event. Most teams did the same thing creating a WSYL-only team. Just pointing out that there are significant drawbacks to doing that. The biggest one being the teams don’t play like true “teams”, like real teams would. If that was a true “team”, in all likelihood they would have won the whole thing.
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Whenever someone says no disrespect the intent is definitely to disrespect. You have some great theories but none are based in fact. You claim that this can't be a true "team" but BBL scored 2 goals in the qualifier championship and yet averaged high double digit goals in this tournament and was tied 5-5 heading into the 4th quarter vs the eventual champion who demolished everyone else. Seems like you would need a miracle for that kind of progress with no practice and a team of kids who don't know each other. I know you hope its not true but this is the BBL team you will see for years. Oh, and by the way the top teams in this tournament all want to play each other and not make excuses. Hopefully you can find the right level of competition for your son. Will make things more enjoyable...for all of us. [/quote]

If what you are saying is accurate, and I’m not saying it is, then BBL has a serious problem with their coaching. BBL was able to beat inferior teams with size alone, playing biggie ball with a 4th grade mentality offense... big guy goes to goal. No ball movement at all. Same thing for every team played, based on parents from the different teams. Never going to beat a good defense or a skilled ball movement offense with that mentality, at this level. Having said that, maybe you can explain to all of us how a pure 7th grade team is 80%+ 5’11” or better. The only team I’ve seen that is comparable size-wise to that team is the Annapolis Hawks team which, as everyone knows, is 80%+ holdbacks. For what it’s worth, that strategy works better for BBL then it does for the Hawks. Hawks are not nearly as good as your boys. Advise: Find a real offensive coach.
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Unless you are a coach or player of WP I think we will pass on your advice. Amazing that in an aged based tournament (with verification) you can still try to use the same holdback argument. If you are correct that 80% of the team is 5’11+ (you said 90% in your first post) how could we not play biggie ball? It’s just math. Not possible to pass it to a small kid if you don’t have any. But we all know that is not the case. Going back to facts over myth check out who led the tournament in assists and made first team all tournament. It’s on the WSYL app and he is nowhere near 5’11. I guess he is part of the 20% under 5’ 11 (or 10% in your original post) who was able to somehow survive in the offense you describe. Fact is you are now saying things like “based on parents from the different teams” which clearly indicates you didn’t see this team play. Give it a rest and when your son is on a team that has more success than this we will listen to your sage advice. My guess is that won’t happen anytime soon.


[/quote]

If what you are saying is accurate, and I’m not saying it is, then BBL has a serious problem with their coaching. BBL was able to beat inferior teams with size alone, playing biggie ball with a 4th grade mentality offense... big guy goes to goal. No ball movement at all. Same thing for every team played, based on parents from the different teams. Never going to beat a good defense or a skilled ball movement offense with that mentality, at this level. Having said that, maybe you can explain to all of us how a pure 7th grade team is 80%+ 5’11” or better. The only team I’ve seen that is comparable size-wise to that team is the Annapolis Hawks team which, as everyone knows, is 80%+ holdbacks. For what it’s worth, that strategy works better for BBL then it does for the Hawks. Hawks are not nearly as good as your boys. Advise: Find a real offensive coach.
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Unless you are a coach or player of WP I think we will pass on your advice. Amazing that in an aged based tournament (with verification) you can still try to use the same holdback argument. If you are correct that 80% of the team is 5’11+ (you said 90% in your first post) how could we not play biggie ball? It’s just math. Not possible to pass it to a small kid if you don’t have any. But we all know that is not the case. Going back to facts over myth check out who led the tournament in assists and made first team all tournament. It’s on the WSYL app and he is nowhere near 5’11. I guess he is part of the 20% under 5’ 11 (or 10% in your original post) who was able to somehow survive in the offense you describe. Fact is you are now saying things like “based on parents from the different teams” which clearly indicates you didn’t see this team play. Give it a rest and when your son is on a team that has more success than this we will listen to your sage advice. My guess is that won’t happen anytime soon.


[/quote]
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BBL is clearly on this person's head to spends this amount of time obsessing and worrying about us. My guess is that it's killing this person inside that his or her son has not yet reached his growth spurt or is part of a team that is not competitive. I do hope your son hit his puberty soon so maybe you can focus your energy on his development and his team instead. He'll need all the luck in the world based on how you're behaving in these boards. I can only imagine how you treat him after losing a game. This person is probably one of those toxic parents that will move their son from one club to the next. Good luck anyway.

Yes, we’ve seen your same old post across multiple Forums with the same old blah, blah, blah. Speaking of unnecessary and lacking any sense of self-awareness, classy job running up the score to settle a LI beef on national television, WP. Hope that satisfied the coaches and parents. Cringeworthy. Deep down, your moral compass to come on these forums to perpetually brag and trash other teams is no better than MadLax. Running up the score was icing on the cake. The audience tuned out early on your biggest day, the stadium emptied out early as it was clear you are no ambassador for the age on sport, and ESPN2 is probably regretting they televised this event as it was a total loss for their commercial ad sponsors in the second half. Also, the 8 to 10 teams that got clobbered with double digit lopsided losses and went 0-5 or 1-4 in pool play (pretty much
what WP did in the first two games with 19-1 and 18-1 pool play wins), likely won’t incur the time and expense to send their 2025 teams next year. So next year, likely less ad money and less teams which is a bad thing. Sadly, it won’t be surprising if we just witnessed the beginning of the slow demise of the last national age on tournament in the country.

Not sure why you are so defensive, since I have been nothing but complimentary of the BBL team.

Since you mentioned it, my team is the #1 team.

Have you read your own post? If the way you complement is by casting shadow of doubt to the legitimacy of a team when it comes to playing by the rules, then consider me flattered. If it's meant to be truly a complement, then thank you and congratulations to your team for winning the WYSL. My question to you is, why even bother with the negative spin if your team is clearly the best on age team on the planet. You should be out celebrating the WSYL win.. I know we would if we won it. Now that we're passed that, our semi final game was a great game and we hope to get the chance to play your team more in the coming season.

I think you are both right, frankly. We have played BBL a bunch and they move the ball well. Their strength, though, is their midfield size and speed. They would be crazy not to use that as a weapon and capitalize on mismatches. But what happened in the final was reflective of the team they were playing against and the score. When they were down, they played more individualistic than I have seen them - a lot of one on one play trying to be a hero. They lost patience and lost the game. Maybe the coach should have stepped in as you say. I think Wolfpack probably wins 6-4 in 10 ’games - there wasn’t a talent gap except for #22 and #3.
The BBL team is really the one we see all summer but for maybe a LSM and a goalie who joined for the WS team. They must have busted their butts to improve since the qualifier because they were a machine in Denver.

its why the tournament is tainted. They went out and grabbed 5 new players to form the WSYL team you saw on TV. so be it. The 2 middies they got make that team what it is. They played well as a team and won ., Exactly what the club wanted . THe Win.. all about the Win Not about the sport or the kids.

It is sad to see the BBL parents crying about their loss like somehow they were wronged. Anyone who knows anything about the 2024 division could have told you that it would have ended this way. Stop complaining and embarrassing your children who worked hard. They did well.

That WP braggart better be a parent of either #22, #3 or the goalies, because if not, we all know that their kid is expendable and replaceable without any drop off to that team.

The WP parent is correct. The talk of the tournament was the BBL size and lack of offensive prowess. What amounts to 2nd grade, run to the goal and score, lacrosse. Every non-BBL parent said the exact same thing about the team. It wasn’t just their performance against the WP team. It was against every team. Yet the BBL cry baby parents choose to not respond to either of those points, which is very interesting in and of itself. But then again, nobody really cares all that much about the #4 team in any tournament. True Illinois, along with Legacy Taz, were far better teams.

#22 joined from LIE and #3 was originally a Taz player. So kudos to WP for doing some serious recruiting. Games would have been a lot closer with out those two. That said, they were there, they dominated and WP is best on age. Hands down two of the best players around.

Love the 'pack hate. LOL. It's been going on for 7 years. Get over it they are a great team. Let it go dad. Or maybe we should talk about it another 7 years.

Love the 'pack hate. LOL. It's been going on for 7 years. Get over it they are a great team. Let it go dad. Or maybe we should talk about it another 7 years.

It’s a very well known fact that WP has no holdbacks, no 2023’s and no guest players no matter if they are playing MD cheater teams or WSYL 2023’s. One team, one goal. Vomiting such obvious lies to the contrary just makes you and the whole bbl organization look like a bunch of sore losers, which the parents on here are. You really are. Nothing but compliments have come from me, with the exception of the size question and the offense question which was asked by literally every parent at the WSYL. Yet you don’t address the two questions, which I find very condemning, in and of itself. The only thing out of you are cry baby insults. Absolutely no class. At least you live up to the well earned reputation of the Garden State which is arm pit of the world. Congrats on bringing this trash site down to new depths. You fit right in perfectly. Notice I didn’t vomit any lies about bbl, just posed the same two questions that everyone is asking.

they went 6 and 1. won the east regional over BBL. how is that disappointing? They beat Freedom and NXT in recent tournaments along with BBL, Bethesda, Carolina, etc. Pretty solid wins. Are they the best team in 2024 no but they can give anyone a game and definitely a top 10 team. Pretty age on as well so that is impressive.

Wait until high school...BL is the new Rising Sons. Wouldn't touch that program with a ten foot pole!

Completely agree. They have absolutely zero track record with being able to guide kids through a recruiting process. They don't have the structure nor the kind of culture required to be successful for kids in terms of recruiting. If you want to chase wins, tournaments, and all of the "fun" garbage they are the perfect fit. The owner spends an awful lot of time trolling this site waiting to pounce at a moments notice to push the BL agenda. They have no plan and hoping it works out doesn't quite get it done.

Anyone know anything about Team 11? Good practicies? Does Sankey coach?

How many of the Sons 2020 team is going to play in college? and who coached them....oh yeah you both sound like stunads. And i guess neither of your kids made the team when they tried out.

[quote=Anonymous]Anyone know anything about Team 11? Good practicies? Does Sankey coach?[/quote

Team 11 teams are all in the NXT range of competitiveness. In the lower A/B level. (Aside from the 2024 team at NXT, they are a high quality team somehow). Sankey’s Brother but not him, but overall I would say coaching is solid.

They are both classless organizations. They poach players and win at all costs. Could care less about who is playing in college.

What are you basing this on? Neither Team 11 or BL have kids that are even at the age to be recruited. Based on the people that have been brought into both organizations I don't think getting kids recruited will be an issue for either one.

I was referring to BL and RS clubs...the earlier thread.

What?> The oldest RS team is 2020 and they have 14 or 15 commits so far (and a Yale footbal recruit). Name another Philly 2020 team that has more.

People are stunads...they say things w/o having a clue. They say BL and 11 chase title, look at the weak events Freedom 24 played in; talk about chasing t-shirts to no avail.

I don't care how many kids are playing in college. We want them to grow up and be men of character. Playing college lacrosse is a plus. Teaching the boys to win at all costs, poaching players from other teams, then selling the club. Is that character? No one said anything about Team 11, STUNAD.

We get it, you have a beef with BL, let it go. You keep posting little tidbits as bait..no one cares. Move on...

The funny part is that I was talking about RS...but I guess you have your own agenda there Bud.

Clearly this conversation has lost it's focus and goal. No clue what the issue is/was. Also Stunad was really funny on the NY board about 5 years ago. It's over use and quick reference is kind of like a flip phone. Sure it still works but really????

BBL would have smoked Taz or True. They were the second best team by far. WSLT organization missed a golden opportunity to have LI play LI and NON-LI play NON-LI in the Semi's. WP win over BBL was the real championship game for anyone that watched all three games.

but they did not make it did they. Sux for you .

This. plus WSYL changed the bracket after the pool play was already in the books, and moved BBL in 91's bracket. Guessing either Legacy or BL complained but who really knows. 91 is a tough out and they are the champs but it would have been good for that tournament to have a non-LI final for sure.. and a much more competitive game on TV to boot.

What sux for you is the beating and embarrassment on national TV. Total joke. Surprising WSYL didn't fold after that fiasco.

BBL is not going to beat either team this year. At least they made it . Sore lost !!!

Taz beat Eclipse and True . Eclipse lost to True but beat WP . One game no matter the score does not determine how you will play against a team. Each team matches up differently on any given day . True lost to Wp by 2 goals and beat Taz in Mach play 8-2 . Taz beat True in the semi 6-1. Do you get the point . BBL is a great team and can prob beat any one of those teams, but don’t come on BOTC and throw shade at the WSYL. It was not in the cards for BBL, show respect for these teams that have been on top for years .

Legacy beat BL. BL beat BBL in east regionals.......and at another tournament.

At least they made it, is what you're gonna brag about??. laughable. more like they made fools of themselves losing by double digits. But ok daddy, time for you to hang out with your greasy wife. By the way, I can't wait for them to play Madlax this year. You'll pray to lose only by that much.

Peace and love peace and love.
Let our boys just play lax and enjoy the camaraderie and competition. It's their last year of "youth" lax. Next year is a whole diff ball game. Enjoy it while we can.

BL beat BBL in East Final so that is how seeding should have been. Taz was well rested for BL game knew from experience and definitely earned spot beating True. WP just knows them to well.

Move on. Pointless to talk about the past. Talk about the fall season.. anything.

Lol. This is another BBL parent who is still angry about losing in the WSYL. Get a life and get back to what you guys are good at - facilitating hold backs. Nobody cares about BBL.

It must hurt you that BBL is ranked #2 in WSYL by Inside Lax.. you greasy lost.

Lol!! We will see about your notIntelligent ranking that nobody cares about this fall. We picked up a couple of new studs and we will destroy you in our Columbus Day tournament. You will wish you never play in Strong Island again.

Just makes me laugh. That will be short lived and no doubt you will be destroyed when your son gets moved down to the B Team next year so that they can take on another hold back. Enjoy. Can't wait to play you guys.

Spreading rumors about hold backs.. pathetic!. Keep making stuff up to make yourself feel better (or more likely deflecting that your team has hold backs). Can't wait to play you guys too. We will revisit this after your tournament.

Interesting how your posts went from "They" in your first post to "We" in your last post. Dude, your are a fraud. If BBL was so great as you say -- you wouldn't need to be hyping them on this forum. Nuff said.

And you really believe that you are NOT a fraud?? you wish. you're a clown and a total degenerate. Go away.

Isn't this a Pa board? Why is this discussion on here?

And you really believe that you are NOT a fraud?? you wish. you're a clown and a total degenerate. Go away.[/
You are in the wrong forum. This is PA. I know that reading and telling the truth is difficult for you. Go take your BBL pom poms somewhere else. Nobody is impressed here.

Hello is this thing on? NAL tourney this weekend in Delaware have top teams in it. Wondering why Brotherly Love is not going... Please don't kill me for asking. I think BL belongs there.

USCL #1 ranked '24 clubs in each state. NY-NJ-CT-PA are 91 Wolfpack, BBL Elite, Eclipse, Brotherly Love. GO BroLove!!

#stillbro-BadPerson

Inside joke? I don’t get what you’re saying here...

I think they're saying that regardless of how good Brotherly Love is - they're still bad people and destined for the same path as Rising Sons....or maybe I am saying that. #tools #yougottaplaythelonggame.

Congrats Brotherly Love for winning the A-bracket championship. That bracket was a buzz saw. Call Tourney machine to fix the darn results.

Agreed. Give credit where credit is due.

See HHH had a mass exodus to Dukes what is going on....

poorly run organization

total s*show over in big4 land. how the mighty fall.

Does this make Dukes a AA '24 team now ?

Why, HHH was never an AA team. They were average at best. Dukes just like HHH just OK. Great coaching and will be very good right as this age group hits the recruiting window.

so you leave one horror show for a bigger one? not sure how that makes much sense....

horror show? not AA? the HHH commits speak for themselves. stop hating. People come, people leave. Mobility is a good thing.

Play BL and we'll see where the team stand.

Well... HHH is #37 in the national rankings in this age group. I think they're doing just fine.

I saw on phillylacrosse.com that the 2025 Duke's age group won a tournament recently. Does anyone know if those are homegrown players, transfers from other teams, or even reclasses? Seems like they came out of nowhere.

ummm, they are folding altogether at some age groups...I don't think former rankings are relevant

HHH is tried and true. Class act. And no - I am not a HHH parent but only because of logistics.

I think you only see the tourney results. Maybe not such a class act if you are in the program.

NLF affiliation is all they have going for them at the moment. Seems like the cracks are starting to form all oven the program, not just at the 24 level. Didn’t a bunch of 25’s jet too?

We played HHH this summer - class act. They initiated fist bumps before the game started, parents were civil. Talented and well coached group of kids.

Never had an issue with them, but they folded at multiple age groups for some reason.

Good kids, but poor organization. While all the other philly teams were practicing and playing this summer, they did very little at multiple age groups outside of keeping parents' money. Lots of promises with few results which led to mass departures.

HHH's web site shows no coaches for the 2025 team. Did they fold? Perhaps the kids went to Duke's which would explain why they have come out of nowhere at that age level and won a tournament.

Everyone needs to slow down.
25 team exists. A few kids left for other programs, a few kids were added from other programs. As is the case with the 24 team. As is the case for every single lacrosse club in the US.

The youngest teams folded. Clearly not the focus of the program in my opinion. Got to know your strength and play to that. I’m sure they aren’t worried about the pipeline of kids as long as they keep getting commits to top tier schools (which is healthy at this point).


The website hasn’t been updated in years. several of the listed coaches have moved out of the area for other D1 coaching positions. Again, not a strength of the program (professional website or social media). They focus on lacrosse and not much else. It’s a word of mouth and results factory, not a marketing machine.

1/2 the team isn't a few kids....

Agree with the post above. So my question regarding HHH comments is this: who is this program catering to - middle school, high school, or both? From what I can tell it’s high school and they have great players going to great colleges/universities. I don’t think anyone would argue that. Communication and website aren’t their strengths but from what I’ve heard it’s never been a strength. They have teams from 2026 and older with their 2022 team and 2025 competing at an extremely high level. 2024 seems okay and 2026 looks like they did fine last summer (see US Club lax ranking). Heard some 2025’s playing 2024 and a couple 2026 players play on the 2025 team already. If true, I’d say HHH is doing fine, especially being the only NLF team in Philly (access to strong tournaments).

They have decided to focus on high school ages. They folded the 2026 team (and NXT graciously accepted many and a few other scattered elsewhere). They lost some talent including one stud from 2025 as a few players returned to their “home” clubs. They will be really solid from 2022-2024 this year as that’s the focus.

This post is the epitome of false info. Let me clear it up. Yes the 2026 team lost players but they didn’t fold and they practice every Sunday just like the rest of the HHH teams do. Not one “stud” left the loaded 2025 team. Some players were cut but more “studs” were added. The HHH 2025 team is loaded with talent.

This is a 2024 board, feel free to move to other boards to discuss 2025s and 2026s, thanks.

Will do! Thanks thread killer. I’ll give it to you that this topic got away from pure 2024 but it was relevant to HHH 2024 and didn’t stray far away from that. But by all means, let’s get back to the robust Philly 2024 thread that was established prior to this.

this dude called it...thread is dead!

NAL this weekend. Let's get these games in before we lock down. Hoping all your players are going.

What is the betting line for NAL?

Madlax Cap -150
Hawks +200
FCA +300
True IL +300
For the Delaware side

91 +150
Brotherly Love +200
Prime Time +300
BBL +300
Taz +350
For the NJ squads

Where has HHH been?

You got 1 right with Madlax. Hawks not a good call. For NJ, you went O-fer. Good try though. For BL, I'm guessing missing players.

BL missing players or Nurry game is over??? #truth,#fraud,#$$30000 coaches off your academy team is over

Express went 2-0-1 in NJ today. Looks like Madlax had the easy pool..maybe because its their tourney and CM made the schedule...LOL

Lots of lax this weekend. still no HHH on the circuit. Are they having Covid exposures that are preventing them from attending any events?

hard to play when more than 1/2 the team left

I think many of them (HHH) play for Duke's National who played very well this weekend.

Pretty sure the boys from HHH play for Dukes Elite, not Nationals. Dukes Elite went 3-0 in their games this weekend against Freedom Red, IronHorse and Seattle Starz at the Philly Fall Invitational. From the small sample size I observed this weekend they looked very solid.

So does that mean HHH doesn’t play in the fall anymore? They used to have a fall tourney and everything. Noticed that wasn’t held this year. Just seems oddly vacant.

Interesting response. Sounds great for Dukes brand. Sounds really bad for HHH brand. They (HHH) might want to reign that in. It’s very much a what have you done for me lately ecosystem that they are playing in (or not playing in as has been the case all fall for HHH).