This thread will be used for the discussion of news and updates related to the Greene Turtle Lacrosse Club.

GREENE TURTLE LACROSSE CLUB PHILOSOPHY Since 1989

The people associated with the Greene Turtle Lacrosse Club are all current or past players and/or coaches who are dedicated to "give back" to preserve the integrity of the game. We work hard to create an atmosphere of fun and learning and stive to offer the following:

•Field nationally competitive teams through a selection process of talented players that are willing to learn and improve.

•Provide players an opportunity to develop an advanced understanding of the game based on lacrosse fundamentals, individual skill development, and highly emphasized team concepts.

•Teach the importance of good chartacter on and off the field, of good sportsmanship, and of respect for other players, coaches and officials.

•Encourage players to participate in multiple sports and stress that the "in season" sport takes priority.

•Offer the opportunity to make lifetime friendships with other players from a variety of recreation programs and a variety of schools.

•Have fun and develop a true appreciation for the game of lacrosse.

Our goal is to create a great environment for the players to excel, so we make a strong effort to seek quality players, parents, and coaches to represent the Greene Turtle Lacrosse Club.

2013 College Commitments

Marc Badger- University of Richmond
John Belz-University of Maryland
Tom Bennett-Furman University
Hill Blaze- Furman University
Bennett Bradley- Army
Keita Christophe- Washington College
Jack D'Angelo Quinnipiac University
Nick Doyle- Ohio State University
Austin Frederick- Villanova University
Brian King- [lacrosse] College
Christian Knight- Cornell University
Michael Knudsen- Kenyon College
Sean Lewns- UMBC
Eric Levin- Swarthmore College
Tyler LLewellyn-Dickinson College
Devin McNamara-Villanova University
Josh Reider- Dickinson College
Andrew Siegel- Stevenson University
Jake Walsh- Bates College

2014/2015/2016 College Commitments

2014 Team Coach Busse
Matt Burke- University of Vermont
Daniel Flock- University of Vermont
T Moyer- Highpoint University

2015 Team Coach Brandau
Robby Black- University of Notre Dame

2016 Team Coach Whitty
Sam Offutt-University of Virginia

New Information from the Greene Turtle Lacrosse group as there will be tryouts for the following teams.

2021/2022 Team 4th & 5th graders-Coaches Ryan Smith and Travis Holmes

2020 Team 6th graders- Coach Kevin Benzing

2019 Team 7th graders- Coaches Andy Hilgartner and Joe Meurer

2018 Team 8th graders- Coach Rick Brocato

2017 Team 9th graders- Coaches Ian Shure, Tom Nee and Bryn Holmes

2016 Team- Coach Steve Vaikness

The 2016 Team Coach Whitty and 2015 Team Coach Brandau teams are already established and will not have tryouts.

The 2013-2014 season runs from the fall of 2013 through the summer of 2014. The youth teams (2018 and younger) typically participate in 2 fall tournaments and will play in the spring Howard County league. There will be a mandatory weekend camp in the early summer that will be held locally that will include position training sessions, team practices and scrimmages. Two to three local tournaments and the Stowe, VT tournament will round out the summer.

The high school teams also typically participate in 2 fall tournaments and 2-3 recruiting tournaments in the summer.

Any questions, please contact Andy Hilgartner- ahilgartner @mcdonogh.org

Greene Turtle Lacrosse Staff for 2013-2014

2021-22 Team - Ryan Smith and Travis Holmes
Ryan Smith has been coaching youth lacrosse for nearly a decade. He currently coaches at Lutherville-Timonium Rec Council and has experience coaching the Clinic, Tyker, Lightning, and [lacrosse] age groups. A 1995 graduate of University of Pennsylvania, Ryan was a midfielder and a face-off specialist during his college career. In addition to lacrosse, Ryan played varsity soccer at Boys’ Latin and was team captain in both sports. Travis Holmes is a teacher at McDonogh School and coaches middle school football, wrestling and lacrosse. While in high school at McDonogh, Coach Holmes was a four year varsity athlete in football, wrestling and lacrosse. He then played midfield at the University of Maryland, graduating in 2007. This will be Coach Holmes third year coaching at Greene Turtle.

2020 Team - Kevin Benzing
Kevin is starting his second year with Green Turtle Lacrosse, and first as a head coach. He is the 8th Grade history teacher at St. Paul's School where he will coach the Defense and Goalies on the varsity lacrosse team. He works with 83 Lacrosse during the off season. He attended Quinnipiac University where he played goalie for four years and received his Masters in Education.

2019 Team - Andy Hilgartner and Joe Meurer
Andy Hilgartner has been the Coaching Director of the Greene Turtle Lacrosse Club since 2008. Within the club, he has coached high school and U13 teams. Coach Hilgartner is the Head Coach at McDonogh School as well as the Senior Class Dean. In 2014, he will be entering his 19th year as a high school lacrosse coach. In 2010, Coach Hilgartner was named the Coach of the Year by the Maryland State Coaches Association. He played college lacrosse at Michigan State University from 1990-93 and is a 1989 graduate of Calvert Hall.
Joe Meurer is a current junior and team captain at Ohio State University. Joe graduated from McDonogh School in 2010, where he received the Kelly Award as the best player in the state of Maryland. Joe became a starter at OSU as a freshman at the long stick midfield position. He has assisted Coach Hilgartner for the past three years at the U13 Level.

2018 Team - Rick Brocato
Rick Brocato has been a Varsity Lacrosse coach for 28 years. Twenty-one years at St. Paul's, 13 as head coach. Won MIAA A Conference championship in 2010.MIAA A Conference finalist in 1996 & 1998. Coach-of-the-Year in 1998 & 2010. Head coach of the South Team in the Under Armour Senior All-America Game in 2011. Played for Towson Sr. High, All-Balltimore County in 1980 & 1981.Played college ball at Washington College.

2017 Team - Ian Shure, Tom Nee, Bryn Holmes
Ian is the founder and owner of Shure Shot LLC, which organizes and offers training opportunities for coaches and youth lacrosse players year-round. Shure Shot LLC sponsors the Athletic Learning Center which offers athletic training space for youth lacrosse programs such as Cradle Monkeys, Lax T.R.U.E., and 83 Lacrosse. Ian was a recognized attackman at the Boys' Latin School of Maryland (1994-1997) and the University of Virginia (1997-2002), earning several achievements and titles including MIAA and NCAA championships. He has coached at the middle & high school, college, and club levels for 10 years. Coach Holmes is a teacher at Gilman School and coaches middle school football, varsity wrestling, and as an assistant on the varsity lacrosse team. Coach Holmes is a 2010 University of Maryland graduate, where he was named to the Honorable Mention All-American team as a midfielder. Like his brothers, Coach Holmes was a four year, three sport varsity athlete in high school.

2016-Vaikness Team - Steve Vaikness
Coach Vaikness is currently an assistant coach with the 2012 National Champion Loyola University Greyhounds, where he works with the face off men. Coach Vaikness attended West Genesee High School and played for the 1985 New [lacrosse] State Championship Team. He went to Loyola and in his four years, helped the Greyhounds advance to three NCAA Tournaments, including the Quarterfinals in 1988 and the NCAA Championship Game in 1990.

2016-Whitty Team - Trey Whitty and Billy Gladding
Coach Whitty is the Athletic Director at St. Mary’s High School. Before that, for 3 years Coach Whitty was the Defensive Coordinator at McDonogh School, where he was named MIAA Assistant Coach of the Year in 2011. Prior to his work with McDonogh, Coach Whitty also served in the same capacity at St. Pauls. He has played professionally in the MLL and played his college lacrosse at the University of Virginia, where he graduated in 2003 as a National Champion and All-American.

2015 Team - Tim Brandau
Coach Brandau is currently an assistant coach for McDonogh's Varsity. Coach for Buggs Combs' Shoot2Score Lacrosse Camps run throughout the Mid-Atlantic which specializes on shooting and stick skills. Formerly a Head Coach for Predator Lacrosse Club U-19 and an assistant coach with the Greene Turtle U-15. Four year starter at attack for Bucknell University from 2006-2010. Top ten scorer in program history and an all Patriot League selection.

anyone have results from Greene Turtle last weekend? also interested in Hogan Fall brawl - results are not posted

Both are posted now - they aren't 100% accurate, but at least they are there

Greene Turtle try outs this weekend...

Aug. 23
3pm - 2017, 18, and 19
4:30pm - 2020, 2021, 2022

Aug. 27
6pm - 2017, 18, and 19
7:30pm - 2020, 2021, 2022

Location Ridley Athletic Complex - Loyola U.


WELCOME TO THE GREENE TURTLE LACROSSE CLUB
2014-2015 TRYOUT REGISTRATION

REGISTRATION WILL CLOSE AT 6AM ON 8/25/14 FOR ALL TEAMS


IF YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS PLEASE E-MAIL:
STEVE VAIKNESS at svaikness@thegreeneturtle.com

You will be asked to pay for $40 tryout registration fee
at the end of this form via Mastercard or Visa. If you are having difficulty with this procedure please contact towsonlacrosse@thegreeneturtle.com

Helpful Information:
1. Please input players information correctly. A valid email address on this form is important in order to contact you about weather related changes and team postings.
2. Please register promptly. We limit the number of attendees per age group.
3. Tryout fee is non refundable.
4. We will not accept "walk up" registration. All interested athletes must register online. This website page will be shut down September 12th at 12 noon in order to prepare for evaluations. If you do not have a credit card, please fill out the form online and send a $40 check prior to August 22 to Greene Turtle Lacrosse,408 [lacrosse] Road, Towson MD 21204.
5. Attending both tryouts is not mandatory but the more time you spend in front of the evaluators, the better your chances of obtaining a spot on a team. There will only be one team per age group.

TRYOUTS WILL BE HELD AT LOYOLA UNIVERSITY, RIDLEY FIELD
Take Interstate 83 to exit 9B Cold Spring Lane West. Bear right and then get in the left hand lane. Turn left at Baltimore Northern District Police Station. Keep left,go up the hill to Ridley Field


Go to http://www.turtlelacrosse.com/ for details

Does anyone know anything about the Green Turtle invitational for November 9th. Is it a showcase? How many college coaches will be there?[u][/u]

I think u15 is oldest age group. college coaches hopefully won't be there

What teams will be attending?

what teams are the turtle fielding this year as a club? anyone know?

Annapolis Hawks' website shows they are going...

Green Turtle Tournament
November 9, 2014
2023, 2022, 2021 Green, 2021 Black, 2020 Green, 2020 Black, 2019 Green

Hawks suck

Good point.

Excellent contribution to this forum.

You can see the partcipating teams for the Fall GT on the dropdown menus on this page:

https://leagueathletics.com/UserForm.asp?RegID=66153&org=turtlelacrosse.com

Nice tournaments this program hosts.

I dont understand the Age groups?? In 13B there are 2020 teams ?? Both Greene Turtle and Hawks have their 2020 and 2021 teams in 13B .. I know it says age group but all these teams are grade base??? Confusing??

Hawks 2019 playing B.

there are two 2019 Hawks teams this year

there are two 2019 Hawks teams this year [

Is the other team playing In the A bracket?

2020 is 7th graders who fall in the U13 age range. 2021 is 6th graders who also fall in the U13 range

VLC also put their "U13AA" team in the B bracket - what a joke they are

The new Grade based format most of the leagues have gone to does not lend itself to the typical 2 year Age Group system that Green Turtle has in place.

It looks like this is where the teams are registering. The B age groups are getting crowded.


U11A - 2022A

U11B – 2022B, 2023A, 2023B

U13A – 2020A

U13B – 2020B, 2021A, 2021B

U15A – 2019A

U15B – 2019B

So where is the Hawks 2019A team playing at this weekend if they are not playing in the U15A bracket????

Looks like they are doing the NPYLL Invitational on November 17, 2014 instead of GT.

Why didnt they just use the tournament age requirements as brackets. Read the age requirements which have nothing to do with age. It should read grade requirements.
Frankly the poster above has it down right. B is getting crowded. As the A of lesser grade ie:2021A, 2023A has nowhere to go but B. The world of grade based teams. You have 3 year age difference when you stick grade based teams in an U11,U13, U15 age based brackets..

Since it is just a 3-game round-robin, I expect single-year teams will generally be scheduled to play teams of the same graduation year and hopefully stronger (A or AA) teams will generally be scheduled to play comparably skilled teams as well.

Yikes its panic on the streets because of grade based competition. Its the way of the new world. Get used to it.

Sounds like your son is one of the select players that gets to play down against younger players.Or are you the coach of some quality older kids playing down.... Good for you , you should be proud to have a son or team that gets to play against younger competition....

I have been watching travel lacrosse for a while now and I do not see as many blow out/butt kicking games you guys are always talking about. If you are playing for any of the top 15 traval programs talked about on here, your games are close in skill level. Even if you take the worst team in any of these leagues or tournaments that loses every game. I would bet they avg. losing by 4 goals over a year of playing. So what I am saying is all the games are close and they are all getting better by playing, the age thing is just over blown and nutts. Let it go!

Panic, the sky is falling..... tell your kid to get on the wall.

You haven't watched too many NPYLL games then

Check out the results from last year - there are MANY games decided by 10+ goals, especially when clubs like Crabs/Hawks/Madlax play clubs like Maryland Extreme/API

I agree why does everyone bellyache about this grade based advantage to a few kids. This happens over and over. Danny Almonte was robbed by a bunch of babies. If it had been lacrosse Danny would have been a hero to us all. I said the same thing about Lance Armstrong .So what he got an advantage , others could have hired same consultants and got that advantage. A bunch of cry babies. Get over it people. Time to move on.

Half the games are blowouts. Are you serious?

Well that sounds like the bottom three teams need to combine and make a better team. Or get better.

If you combine two bad clubs, you still get a bad club - examples
1) MD Elite and Lax Factory combining
2) Rockville and Performance

Both are still bad

Plus combining clubs means the directors lose their $$

So which teams will come out on top for their divisions at the Fall Invitational?

U11A (2022A)
Cannons 2022
Club Blue 2022
Crabs 2022
Hawks 2022
Looneys 2022 Orange
Madlax-Capital
Manhasset 32
Roughriders 2022
Thunder 2022
Valley Select 2022

U11B (2023A, 2022B)
Breakers 2023
Club Blue 2023
Freedom Lax-Blue
Greene Turtle 2022
Hawks 2023
Looneys 2023
Madlax-Capital
Roughriders 2023

U13A (2020A)
Cannons 2020
Club Blue 2020
Hawks 2020-Black
Lax World
Madlax-Capital
Snappers

U13B (2021A, 2020B)
Breakers 2021
Club Blue 2021
Crabs 2021
Freedom Lax-Blue
Freedom Lax-Red
Greene Turtle 2021
Greene Turtle 2020
Hawks 2020-Green
Hawks 2021-Green
Hawks 2021-Black
Laxworld-2020/2021
Madlax-Capital
Manhasset 32-2021
Valley Select 2021
VLC-2020
Zingos

U15A (2019A)
Club Blue 2019
FCA 2019-Blue
Freedom Lax-Blue
Low and Away
Madlax-Capital
MLC 2019
Roughriders
VLC 2019

U15B (2019B)
Freedom Lax-Red
Greene Turtle 2019
Hawks-2019 Green
Lax World
Madlax-Capital
Snappers
Team 302
Zingos

It sounds like it is just a play day where the organizers rank the teams ahead of time and set up the most competitive matches. (No champions).

A true round robin would require too many games.

If they really are ranking the teams ahead of time, a playoff with 2 guaranteed consolation games for 1st round losers would be better.

They don't crown champions in the fall

last year Crabs 2021 was allowed to play U11 even though half their team was too old

11a hawks win

I hope Madlax and FCA get to play in 2019A.

I hope they realize there are a lot of HoCo and NPYLL teams in this and that they should line it up so that the best HoCo teams play the best of the NPYLL. The teams in the leagues play each other enough already and tournaments (or invitationals) should make an effort to mix things up.

Greene Turtle is just a fun tournament where you get to play three games. Most games are usually won/lost within 1-5 goals. I dont remember seeing any blowouts last year but I could have missed them.
If it wasnt for Greene Turtle name I assume it wouldnt be well attended due to no playoffs or extra games.

I bet they could care less about different leagues. They want the teams talent to be about same .

I saw Indian summer tourney by aloha has a very poor turnout this fall. Wonder why

Just looked at it, no real competition in the 11u AA glad we pulled out this year.

Wow. That is weak.

Looks like FCA and Breakers are the only clubs fully supporting.

http://www.alohatournaments.com/BoysSchedIS.aspx

Jarretsville is a bit of a hike for the DC and Annapolis clubs - but the fields and parking are good. Don't know much about the typical refs at this event.

Fall Brawl and Green Turtle line ups are looking good - looks like most clubs are just hitting one or the other of these two.

Is the term "Indian summer" now considered racist?

Looks like a Sh_t show...all across the board

Rising Sons and Stars & Stripes are in Indian Summer also and should do very well.

Philly Freedom 2019 was VERY good this past Summer.

Right 2019 freedom red was good because they had about 5 15yr olds and how many more hold backs.

so you're saying that the team had 5 kids held back 2 grades? sounds like bs to me. I have no idea where freedom is from. If true it would be ridiculous. but sounds like someone exaggerating to make a point about grade v age brackets

Or they played them in a tournament with several kids to old to play.Which is very common in summer tournaments. USL should do like Soccer with cards but that might make to much sense and let everyone know who is cheating. Lacrosse is run a muck with cheating at all levels, not that it always matters , but why not clean it up??

We played that freedom team last summer and im telling you that they looked like men out there compared to other teams. Almost all were fully developed boys with legs bigger then most of the fathers. lol. There is no way most of those boys were 13. One kid told my sons teammate he was 15.

Philly.

Oh no, lost a game so everybody on the winning team is too old for that age bracket....here's a novel idea...get your kid on the wall.

Dude enough with getting your kid on the wall crap. When men are playing against boys the wall means nothing. They were bigger faster stronger. Because at this stage of the game you have kids through puberty and it makes a difference. I'm sorry those boys were not all 12 and 13.

Enough with your crying about ages. Everyone is tired of hearing that crap.

No the only ones tired of hearing that crap are the parents of the children playing down or coaches of teams of with players playing down. It is a joke to be able to play down. Years ago that would be called cheating.

But I will say once you get to the U13 level there is a huge difference in the size of players due to various levels of puberty and growth. I have seen legitimate U13 players 6 ft 2. That is a big boy towering over some 4 ft 10 kids. And if you have a lots of older legitimate U13 players ,you could easily look like you are playing down. So easy to solve with USL age card like soccer to stop the crying about age and clean up lax in process.

Tired of hearing about the ages? It's just plain wrong. You probably have a kid reclassified that's why you don't want to hear it anymore. My son is 2019 and if I hold him back am I teaching him that's what's right in life? No I want him to work harder and strive to succeed with his own peers. He is 13 and hasn't even started puberty, I could get away with reclassifying him but I choose to teach him different. I was a late bloomer also and most of the boys were bigger then me at that age. Guess what it made me work harder, and when I started catching up to those boys in high school they weren't the studs anymore. I surpassed them and went on to play college football. Teach your boys to work harder not cheat, because that's what it is.

I think most people are sick of hearing this because they simply don't care. My 2019 has a late birthday in the age group and has not hit puberty. He has no problem going up against reclassed, post-puberty kids. Why? Because most of them are not very good. There's a reason why they reclassed. Sure, they might have breakaway speed for a year or so but that can be neutralized by a good coach and game plan. Can't dodge a bigger kid because of his size? Move the ball. Worried about taking chops from a big long pole? Play baseball. Or get better.

It is rare when an on age kid takes a big hit from a reclass kid. And most of those times it's because the on age kid just isn't that good.

Just putting another opinion out there.

Ok lets take a poll here. Lets think back to the last year or 2 of watching lacrosse we all have done of the age group we call U15 +U13. Now everyone write down how many kids they saw get hurt? Then say the how and why they got hurt? Then say how many of those came from a kid you think was to old on a kid who is the correct age. I will start because I saw ZERO come from a kid hitting another kid I only saw twisted knees and ankles. Please answers to get a real idea of the issue. Because if its really only about the wins or losses then get over it. But if you guys are seeing kids get hurt please let me know I do not see it.

I think most people do care about the direction lacrosse has taken in Maryland. We are talking youth sports right. So it is ok with you for select kids to play down. Just because you are ok with it doesnt mean the rest of us need to be ok with it. To the majority of people it is wrong . So you can expect to hear about it constantly.

The issue of age is not going to go away and it cannot be dismissed by arguments made above such as "since I cannot remember a serious injury there is not a problem," or my personal favorite "play baseball, or get better.” Wonderful.

The issue is youth (not high school) lacrosse. From my (and many other’s) perspective, the shift to grade based teams is nothing more than a shameless move by the large, deep clubs to take advantage of their larger base of players at the cost of exacerbating the difference in the height and weight of the players on the field. Physics dictate that increasing the range of height and weight does increase the severity of impacts (which can only increase the risk of injuries). With boys growing and maturing at different rates there are going to be size and weight differences no matter what. That’s just a dynamic of boys/youth sports. However, with age based restrictions there are formal limits that are not subject to manipulation. This is why soccer has gone the age base route. With grade based teams there are no formal limits beyond a boy (regardless of age) being in a particular grade (and that of course is subject to manipulation).

In short, the move to grade based teams seems like an irresponsible decision that at least over the short term benefits the big youth clubs at the expense of making the sport more dangerous for all players on the field.

Well said. Couldn't agree more. I am one of the many people who do care about this issue.

And the poll taker above. Just because there is no more injuries due to older players doesn't make something that is wrong suddenly right.

Sounds like a host of similar excuses to justify letting select children play down.

Granted the age/grade cutoff situation is not ideal, but why must every single forum degenerate into this topic? We get it - you feel like every team that has ever beaten your kid's team has done so by manipulating the rules.

Not hardly. But once again cheaters and manipulators like you spout off some ignorant remark that everyone who says something on this topic has a kid that always loses and always for a reason.

The posters above had well thought out remarks on the subject. Yet you join the chorus of excuses ..
"play baseball, or get better, get on the wall, and now from you,"you make up excuses for your kids team losing" .

Prior to this year the holdbacks were only an issue at U15. Now it will be an issue at all grade classes / levels.

The elite programs are going to have more holdbacks and as a result are going to have a significant edge in talent and physical attributes. Thus increasing the desparity between the haves and have nots. I don't understand the sense of pride or accomplishment among the elite teams stacked with holdbacks beating the lesser teams with minimal to no holdbacks. What is there to pound your chest about and what are you teaching your kids? What is the life lesson? The elite teams already have most of the best kids to begin with, why ecourage the holdback situation?

I agree with the Long Islanders that think the MD holdback situation is BS.

For me it's not about the disparity in size and the risk of injury - it is simply about fair play.

What about the kid that happens to be a pretty good player, but gets bumped down the food chain because of the number of holdbacks in front of him. NOT AN EQUAL PLAYING FIELD!

This is all about parent egos. Little Johnny is going to get a lacrosse scholarship! DO the math - it does not make sense!

Holdbacks= it's the only way the Crabs can win

As a parent of a non-holdback that has played on premiere teams with holdbacks, winning was not always a great feeling.

Overhearing a Long Island dad saying, "they are good, but I wonder how many holdbacks they have".

Winning because you are of similar age and more talented is one thing, but winning also because you are older and more advanced is another thing - NOT AN EQUAL PLAYING FIELD!

91 Orange handily beat all of the MD teams - Crabs, FCA..- and the Dukes ladt year. Holdbacks do not seem to be an issue for them. What is their secret?

This is not the "holdback forum". It is the Greene Turtle forum. The holdback complaints and justifications have been heard thousands of times. No matter how fresh you think your take is on the issue, it is not. Move along or voice your opinion in a forum that cares about the issue. Posts on both sides of the issue are just annoying in this forum.

That was my point with freedom team from the Philly area. They were really good I thought but how many hold backs were there? Physically they were so much more mature. It was so obvious. Sorry not the way I would want to win.

The U15 FCA Blue team split with Team 91 last summer in two meetings.

The U15 FCA Blue team split with Team 91 last summer in two meetings. [/quote

I should have been more specific. The 2019 91 Orange team.

Simple ......have your own holdbacks!!

U15 Hawks Green split two games with Team 91 also....

Greene Turtle has holdbacks so this is one of the right places to voice our opinion. Last year Greene Turtle played in a age based tournament with two kids that were held back, both starters and good players. Became a little ugly at tournament when confronted with having these players. I felt sorry for the young players to be put in this situation.

Maybe the holdbacks that couldn't make their own age group team should "play baseball."

Holdbacks are within the rules for many leagues and tournaments, so constantly complaining about a team following the rules is ridiculous.

I agree with that also. If I am seeing correctly dont most grad. year tournaments/leagues also have a age range for the teams? Or do they say all ages? Also if its 2019 team they are 8th graders if they are hold back they are 1 year older which makes a 2 year age window. So if you have U15 its 8th and 9th graders so its a 2 year age window. I just see it as a shift of the 2 year age window.

The two year age brackets (u-15, u-13, u-11) were created years ago because most single year teams just didn't have enough players. The world has changed and every geography can now field a team of age appropriate kids.

Teams (like the names we all know) are in the business of lax to make money and so winning is important to their organization such that all the little kids want to play on a winner. When you add another carrot on the website that points out how many great schools your organization has placed its lax players, then parents are willing to flip the bill...

SO little johny wants to win with the cool helmet and his parents are happy to pay because little johny now has a shot at JHU...As time goes by, other organizations pop up all over because they see the money.

What is the business owner to do? He once had a great business but now he has competitive pressure. So, he figures out an advantage and starts promoting it.

the only way the clubs can perpetuate their continued winning and high placement at the JHUs, is to find the best possible players, but we all know however good our kid is, there are others that are also really good and not always are they going to stay on our team. The talent pool becomes dispersed across many teams.

So the smart guys at 3d, crabs and plenty of others (Yes LI people, it is starting to happen to you as well) use a trick they have seen work in other sports like basketball and football for years--and give it a cool name. No longer are you leaving your kid back (sounds like kid cant keep up) now you are re classing your kid (sounds much better, not so offensive even though it means the same thing).

What is the result? Well, having kids on a team that are a year older and stronger and faster is enough of an advantage to help you keep your kingdom for now because you are the only one doing it. Over time, other clubs catch on and say, wow, great idea, not only do we have a better chance to win, but we collect an extra years tuition at the same time. And because the kid is bigger and stronger and faster, he gets noticed in front of those recruiters so he can help me perpetuate the JHU pitch.

I give these guys credit for a pretty crafty sales pitch that aligns your interest with theirs and they make $ doing it.

That said, the payoff in lax does not justify this move from a parent's perspective. Sure, little johny gets to go to JHU and play on that field for for years, but there is no meaningful lax job waiting for him when he graduates.

In football or basketball, it is a risk worth taking. If your kid can make $5mm per year playing a game and you put him in a position to get noticed, good for you. For lax, the scholarship $ are really low and the people that use the re class are often the people that aren't even worried about school costs, they can already afford it...

SO it boils down to silly parents wanting to brag on little johny. sad really.

Note, none of this applies to the parent who left their kid back in kindergarden because he needed time. Only applies to the silver spoons who do it at the private schools in 8th grade. All of it applies to the club coaches who see you helping them perpetuate their business.

Ok lets try to get a real number on how many hold backs there really are. Can people please go one by one on each NPYLL team and give a number on how many hold backs they think are on the team. I am guessing it only 2 at the most and people like to inflate numbers to prove a point!

Top 2022 in the area has no playbacks

And who do you think the top 2022 in the area is?

A suggestion for those that are concerned about grade based teams (and I am).

Expressing concern anonymously on a website may feel good, but it is not going to solve the problem that the prior poster very well identified: large lacrosse clubs (predominitly in Maryland) manipulating the player age restriction rules for their own benefit at the cost of player safety. It is irresponsible, but the fact that it is irresponsible is not sufficient to change things. The Clubs (and parents of "hold backs") are not going to change unless they are forced to.

The real “goat” in this is US Lacrosse. This is an organization to which all of us are forced to belong and support through dues and whose mission is to promote the sport of lacrosse (and supposedly player safety). US Lacrosse is “leading from behind” on the critical issue of player safety and it really should (and if it is going to be a relevant organization, it needs) to take a strong, unambiguous position as to age based versus grade based teams. So far, US Lacrosse’s position is to tepidly support age based teams, but to hide behind the argument that “there is nothing it can do” as clubs move more to grade based teams. There is in fact a lot that US Lacrosse can do (if it wants to), including, for starters, taking a strong, unequivocal position in its magazine. By taking this position US Lacrosse would of course risk offending various interests, but that is the price to pay if US Lacrosse is in fact going to lead rather than to be impotent. It is more than ironic that US Lacrosse’s headquarters are located in Baltimore, Maryland.

In fairness to the Green Turtle Club this is really not a Green Turtle issue and emails relating to class based teams really do not belong in this forum. Happily BOTC has a forum dedicated to this topic. If you go to the BOTC Main Forum and then look for forum titled “Age Verification” you will find a very thoughtful on-going conversation. There are also links to US Lacrosse in that forum. I would encourage anyone interested to go to the Age Verification Forum and to also contact (as I did) US Lacrosse.

I hadn't posted on this thread yet, but the above poster's advice is good and I previously sent feedback to U.S. Lacrosse. Still, grade-based teams with holdbacks are safer than a 2-year age division.

I think the Arden Diamondback 2022 team seemed like the top 2022 team in Maryland this past Summer. Won the Summer GT Invitational but not going to the Fall Invitational. Not sure about other 2022 teams, but I'm sure other folks might know. Were either of the NPYLL U11A divisions this past Spring pure 2022's? Roughrider 2022's won HoCo 2022A division and they are a good team, but didn't seem to be at Arden's level.

I thought NPYLL teams and teams at Hogan tournaments had to be U11 age eligible this past Summer with no exceptions.

How do folks think the U13B division at the GT Fall Invitational looks? Not inviting chest-thumping or slamming other teams, but what teams have played well this year? I know GT and Crabs and Madlax 2021 teams are strong.

One must remember that Crabs didn't have a 2022 team last year, so we will see. Too bad Arden is not at the Fall GT.

Since most of this discussion focuses on 8th grade/2019, start there. Crabs have at least 7. No other team is close. And other than Crabs, this is not a big Baltimore issue. Ask the same question of Philly teams.

What about DC teams??

Here are the winners:

Division Champion Finalist
U11 A Rising Son's Lacrosse Fearless Lacrosse
U11 B FCA White South Central CHAOS
U13 A Rising Son's Lacrosse Admiral's Cup Lacrosse
U13 B Breakers Rough Riders 2020
U15 A Long Island Express Lehigh Valley Outlaws
U15 B Lehigh Valley Outlaws Cavalier Lacrosse

Looks like Rising Son's had a good day.

Wasn't 2019 91orange u13? So your bragging a top u15 split with a u13. Or FICA u15 played 91 u15. Help me understand

That is 2013 Winners ????

that is 2013 results

The Aloha website is still showing the 2013 results and does not have any scores up yet.

Aloha is slipping.

That is the info I am looking for I think Madlax might have one at 2019 but not 100% sure about that. What about the Hawks or those other teams. If there is only 1 or 2 on the other teams this whole thing about hold backs is even more silly. The numbers are not really there. Unless anyone out there wants to at least try and call out anyone but the Crabs and there 7 "HOLDBACKS"

No it is not silly. The Crabs will have the most as they have a strong presence in the private schools and always seem to draw good players. Other clubs will have a few here and there. If you dont think parents are taking notice you are sadly mistaken. There will be more as time goes by.
To me this is a youth issue about fairplay in youth sports like the poster above. Even if it is just 2-3 per team besides Crabs. Thats 20-30 % of starting lineup assuming they are starters which they will be be at these younger ages. So no it isnt silly and sure wont be silly when you play the Crabs.

Well are you going to your club coaches and telling them to not play the Crabs or any team with holdbacks on thier team? Are there any storys out here of people asking or making a fuss with there team for playing these evil clubs with all those holdbacks. If the Crabs had no one to play they would move those kids up to the next team or cut them I would say.

U15s played U15s. The two U13s played once and 91 won by 3 or 4.
FICA is a payroll tax and I do not believe they have a club team. Yet.

The Crabs travel up and down the East Coast and travel West to play, by demand. Best Lacrosse product available by far. Just look at how they become the topic of every thread on this and on every other forum. You guys are playing right into their hands.

Those results are incorrect! Breakers 2022 won the U11A Indian Summer tournament yesterday.

How many hold backs did they have ?

I agree the Crabs are the best of the best and I love that they are the best. Because when my son plays well or great when they play his stock goes way way up. Let them be the best and the kids who shine when they play them look 12times better. Its the a good thing.

Here are the correct results:

U11 A (2022) – Breakers 2022 over Rising Sons 2022
U11 B (2023) – Breakers 2023 over FCA 2023
U13 A (2020) – Stars & Stripes over Maryland Wild
U13 B (2021) – Rising Son's 2021 over Chaos (South Central Lime Green)
U15 A (2019) – Philadelphia Freedom over Breakers 2019
U15 B (2019) - Philadelphia Freedom (White) over API Select

weak teams weak tournament

Breakers 2019 should feel good about getting to the final. There was a whole 4 teams in their division. Way to go guys, you got 2nd place!!!!

Is that the same team that was 4 - 19 last year. Yikes

Was Greene Turtle in this tournament?? This is a GT Lax forum??

Is GT still playing lax? I know the wings are good.

U13a was won by Rising Sons 2020.

Rising Sons 2020 won 13A

You're correct. There were so few teams in the A division (3), that the teams played a few B teams and aloha mixed in the results.
U13A - Rising Sons 2020 over Chaos (south central royal blue)

You're correct. There were so few teams in the A division (3), that the teams played a few B teams and aloha mixed in the results.
U13A - Rising Sons 2020 over Chaos (south central royal blue) [/GARB!quote]

Anonymous
Unregistered


GT invite tourney only on good match up in 2022 crabs hawks.
Breakers play nobody nor do the cannons. Will be hard to tell who the top 2022 team will be heading into the spring season. Where is Arden are they doing any fall tournaments? Did Breakers lose a lot of kids from 11u last year they had some 2021 kids on their team along with the Cannons. Hawks have some major pickups and first year for 2022 crabs. In 2 weeks maybe some answers

Rough riders won HoCo last year and will be tough. Club blue only lost 1 regular season game last year also so they will be tough (especially if the gp coach is coaching the team). Madlax also benefitted from the new grade based system and will be a lot stronger this year.

Club blue did not even make the playoffs of npyll last year and rough riders 2022 got beat by Arden in summer GT

Club Blue 2022 made the playoffs and lost in the 1st round to eventual champ Breakers. I would not look past them. Their coach is the head coach at Georgetown Prep, so they will have their act together.

Club blue played in the weaker red division of 11uA. They are not on the level of the top 2022 teams.

What's the story behind manhassett32 2022? Same level as 91, igloo, li express?

Why does Greene Turtle use age based brackets in U11 and U 15 when all teams are grade base??? Then in U13 uses both grade and age in brackets ?? Its all grade base now, whats the use in even attempting to act like age is a factor in Maryland Lacrosse????
Are they trying to fool the one NY team??

Can't beat smash, about even with united, better than express & igloo

They are a town team not on the level of 91.

stop Manhasset 32 will be very competitive with all the teams they play this year...winning majority of their games... 5th grade PAL A bracket will be very good this year.

Results??

Hawks beat crabs 2022

Hawks beat crabs 2021

How did 32 do?

Manhasset 32 beat Looneys 10-1, beat Crabs 4-2, and beat Roughriders 4-3.

Didn't have to play Madlax and Cannons who went 3-0 also.

Madlax 2022 beat Hawks 2022 7-5. Also beat Roughriders and Thunder. Manhasset team looked good but I do not know any results.

How did cannons 2022 finish

Cannons beat Club Blue 6-3, beat Looneys 15-6, beat Valley Select 9-1 (Easy draw overall)

Bad thing about GI Invitational was that they used last year's faceoff rules. The kids are doing fall ball to prepare for the spring, not to prepare for last year. C'mon man!

Otherwise a very good tournament. Endline balls always present. Could have used some scoreboards. Fields were excellent - real athletic fields - not some patch of uneven grass they mow for a tournament once in a while.

NO fall league/tournament is using the new face-off rules yet. Primarily because officials haven't been trained how to adjudicate the new rules.

Please.

How did Green Turtle teams do at GTI tournament?

How did Breakers do. Why doesnt GT post results?

2019's both MLC and FCA went 3-0.

Hawks teams winning against Crabs 2021 and 2022 is impressive.
I guess Hawks do eat Crabs

2021 beat Crabs.

Is that mean the crabs 2021 lost all three games, Hawks , Manhasset and GT. Wow,I thought Crabs 2021 were a heck of a good team.

The refs should have watched the 1/2 hr video and used the new rules. They need practice just like the kids - perhaps more so. Fall ball is to prepare for spring and people are much more willing to accept errors on the part of the kids and refs in the fall now vs. in the spring.

Who was the manhasset team that won all three games against crabs, gt, and breakers. Where they cone from? Ny club team?

Agree. Any decent ref should be able to read a summary of it. Then go out and work on in Fall games.

So can you give the rest of the 2019 teams records please?

do you understand the new face off rules don't go into effect until 2015. As a matter of fact they are not new rules yet, the coaches and the committee still have to vote on them and don't do that until December meeting. I guess there should have been visible shot clocks as well!

Give credit to 2022, but they were down 8-6 with 1:20 left and Crabs had the ball. Kid tried to score and led to fast break the other way. Have to finish. In fairness, that was the first game Crabs 2022 has ever played together as opposed to the Hawks teams that start playing together much younger. Crabs dominated the game until the last minute, so we will see come spring.

From Long Island..Not a club team....Town team....Keep paying all that $$ to play elite clubs...Manhasset 32 2022 will compete and probably beat many clubs teams from MA to MD...

Then they are the priciest Town team I have ever seen...
3rd-6th Grade - $950.00
7th Grade, JV and VARSITY - $1150.00

MD Clubs are in this price range.

http://www.32lacrosse.org/page/show/156425-home

I was told the new faceoff rules would be used in NPYLL this spring. I assume Hoco is fallowing suit. Whatever rules will be used this spring should be used now.

Apparently, the shotclock does not need to be implemented until 2015, but the faceoff rules are in effect now.

The college fall ball games all used the new rules.

U11 scores are now posted so I'm sure others will be soon.

It's now 32 Lacrosse,and it has opened up to others from outside of Manhasst...Watched the 2016 32Lacrosse play yesterday at The MVP Showcase and the talent on the field was pretty darn good...There were helmets from Privates as well as Manhasset....Stay Tuned
They took all 3 games!

[quote=Anonymous]do you understand the new face off rules don't go into effect until 2015. As a matter of fact they are not new rules yet, the coaches and the committee still have to vote on them and don't do that until December meeting. I guess there should have been visible shot clocks as well! [/quote

Would have been nice. .along with some heaters on sidelines for parents,

Interesting to see how the Crabs do before they start taking in all the holdbacks. Know that the 2020 Crabs team took in a bunch more kids that were on 2019 teams last year. Pathetic process they run down there, but great to see the Crabs get beat up in their backyard by town teams.

No connection to Crabs here, but how about Hawks, Manhasset 32, and GT are all very strong 2021 teams and obviously are going to get up for that match up.

So was the top 2022 this weekend? Cannons??

Based on what I saw, if The three undefeated teams played each other, Madlax would have won, followed closely by Manhassett, with Cannans a distant 3rd.

I wish they had played the games.

Here are the overall results for the clubs at GT invite:

Cannons 6-0 - 100%
FCA 3-0 - 100%
Manhasset 32 6-0 - 100%
MLC 3-0 - 100%
VLC 5-1 - 83%
Hawks 17-4 - 80%
Club Blue 10-5 - 66%
Thunder 2-1 - 66%
Madlax 11-7 - 61%
Snappers 3-3 - 50%
Lax World 3-6 - 33%
Looneys 2-4 - 33%
Low and Away 1-2 - 33%
Team 302 1-2 - 33%
Zingos 2-4 - 33%
Freedom Lax 4-11 - 26%
Breakers 1-5 - 16%
Crabs 1-5 - 16%
Greene Turtle 2-10 - 16%
Roughriders 1-8 - 11%
Valley Sellect 0-6 - 0%

2022 - those are 5th graders, right?

LOL. Get a life.

Good for Manhasset. that's a nice showing. They don't have the biggest pool to choose from but they sure do benefit from having all those All Americans giving back to the program.

If you actually took the time to figure this out, you need to seek help.

K


Yeah - when we ask how a club did, we just want responses like 'pretty good' or 'they could of done better'. No one really wants to know this level of detail.

I like it. Glad you took time. It is misleading for some teams but interesting.

Yes - from from now - no discussion of teams that are not yet in high school. Any other discussions should just focus on catching and passing.

Really wish you had taken it out to 3 decimal places. Would have been much more helpful.

Now thats funny!

Cannons had such an easy draw. Especially 2022.

You realize that there were pools of teams matched by skill? Bit misleading, but crabs have work to do.
Crabs, FCA, Madlax and others played teams of similar skill. VLC, Cannons played AA teams in B brackets, again.

It is not just kids from Manhasset, they are a recruiting club team now.

Not at the younger ages, think in HS they will selectively take a few out of town kids, but this team is made up of 100% manhasset kids.

Manhasset does NOT recruit from outside of the town at the youth level. 2021 & 2022 teams are 100% Manhasset kids. Even at the high school level they may accept a tryout for kids from outside the town, but they don't recruit.

I do not believe that

32 is 100% Manhasset kids - Grade 7 and below. the older teams have some kids from other towns.

Believe it. These kids have all been friends from kindergarten and before and can walk through each other's houses like it's their own. Great to see good things happen to a great group of boys who have worked hard and have fun with each other.

Easy draw stops this Sunday when they play the Hawks 2022.

Only saw a few minutes of the Hawks 2022, and not sure what team they were playing, def not the Crabs. But, that Hawks team looked sharp.

Cannons going to take down the hawks 2022 on Sunday

So, did CANNONS take down hawks 2022?

Hawks won 4-3

What has happen to the cannons 2022 team? Did they lose a lot of players from last year 11u gold team? are they on the 2021 team now. They are sending a 11u team to Tampa.

There is a lot of parity in the upper npyll teams. The Diamondbacks are typically the best but on any given day (especially a playoff day), they can be knocked off.

Which Green Turtle team is playing in the 2017/18 Division at the B'more Invite this Sunday?