Use this thread to discuss lacrosse pertaining to 8th Grade Boys (2027 Grads) for the Fall 2022/Summer 2023 Season.

Reposting last post from previous SY:


You have misinterpreted everything I just said ....it's quite the opposite of what you have understood . What I am saying is against holdbacks and reclasses not for them . I was saying that if you're son is such a stud then why hold him back or reclass him ...if he is a stud then he should be able to stay on age and be dominant.[/quote]

Check out the D1 commits to top lacrosse schools! How many on age? Just curious? It’s the nature of the beast now, if your kid wants to play in a top D1 program. Just the reality of the game now.

So, parents do the holdback thing as early as possible!! More time to develop and will dominate early. Sorry, it’s just what the game is kind of requiring now. SAD but true.

Sendin my son to Kindergarten in September. He is 10. #winning

😭😂

East Coast Elite additional tryouts Thursday $20

The Rebels tryouts were phenomenal today. Big changes to the teams based on the talent showing up.

We see the same post every year after Rebels tryouts. Great talent, changes coming, two A teams being formed, blah blah. It’s so funny.

Please stop - team is imploding. They play in A brackets not AA (where they get crushed)…. They have to keep saying how well they are doing to convince everyone - don’t look at results lol

We all live in a yellow submarine, a yellow submarine, a yellow submarine.

Team is improving each season but needs a few more players to make the jump to A.

Funny how all these anonymous parents chime in to bash Rebels and you multiple helmets ftom 91 legacy S2S etc there at tryouts. Team is moving in right direction.

A team that is floundering and have lost their way is the Legacy Gators... What happened?

Absentee head coaching and a dad coach with too much pull will catch up to you eventually

That's the problem at Legacy they give dads to much power even if they not coaching. That's why all their team are bad except Taz.

Very true even the moms . Alot of east end kids on the team and parents still talk how good they were in PAL .

Very true Daddy coaching at 4,400 is a bit to much.

Are they really that much ? T.Z big house on the water taxes must of went up . Who would pay that much for that product and go away 3/4 times to Maryland and go 1-4 . So tution with hotels food tolls fuel is 8k ish . Absolutely nuts . How much are other clubs prices ??

So true. Rebels will be picking up kids from S2S, 91 Machine and Rage, Legacy and Express.

Not so fast. If they accept and dont lose some of the core added in last couple years

That's the thing. These organizations spend more tine trying to court the new " girlfriend " like they will be the savior which may or may not work or meet expectations and then take focus away from current team/ talent.then things start splintering.

Machine lost there best player to S2S .

Anyone know how many kids left machine?

Who really cares about Machine.

And machine won the world series

You seem to care about Machine! They are the top.

Any club prices out there anyone can share . Annapolis Hawks great program $2300 ..

Definitely not their best player but a very good player who is one of the core kids. Other boys have caught up though.

#91 the lefty attackman the best on the team .

Watch out for that kid. Had great JV season when he was in seventh grade this past spring. Would think a kid like that would be best on team!

yeah right! have you watched that team play?

Machine is the top of nothing . Didn't win one tournament this past summer . Won the world series in the last second of the game . Any of the 4 top teams could have won , all of the semifinal games were decided by one goal and some.in the last minute. Gaurantee they don't win another tournament next summer . We will see

Hows Legacy Gators ?

Gators they think they are an AA team but only A. Absentee head coaching and a dad coach with too much say has taken a toll. Overvalued players not getting it done.

That was one of machines best players but not the best. Their most important player is either the big attackman or their goalie.

The point is when you have one of your best players leaving a team willingly there is a problem in paradise. Why would anyone want to join a toxic team with parents literally fist fighting each other ?

That’s your opinion concerning the big righty attack for Machine being the best on the squad. He’s really good though. Still like the smaller spider [Censored] kid better that seemed to quarterback their offense for years. He’s smooth with both hands and has great vision. Goalie is really good. The taller goalie. Defense still suspect at times.

That’s your opinion concerning the big righty attack for Machine being the best on the squad. He’s really good though. Still like the smaller spider [Censored] kid better that seemed to quarterback their offense for years. He’s smooth with both hands and has great vision. Goalie is really good. The taller goalie. Defense still suspect at times.

I agree....I have been watching the kid that left for years . He was absolutely the best player on machine . Light on his feet with good game IQ and good hands on both sides. The problem with machine is they don't develop players and unfortunately the toxic sideline parents started to run the asylum . As a result the kid left as well as a few other kids . So let's sum it up . The team wins the world series , you would think people are happy right ?

They couldn't get out of there fast enough

Isnt the dad a coach one of the kids that bailed ?

# Nine One best attackman or never comes out of the game ?

Twenty4 Tryouts

Does anyone know what town(s) does the 2027 Twenty4 team have practice?

That kid not the best on team .

Yes

No, father stopped coaching for some reason. Does anyone know why?

The parents

The toxic parents run the asylum there ..it's sad

Not even close

Stop talking about specific kids please.

You bash coaches with distinct description of the coach but once a number is thrown out there and no negative comment and people get all sensitive. Maybe call out everyone who is calling out any person. Double Standard!!!

I guess you won’t post truth

Exactly.......welcome to the 91 biased admin forum . Ridiculous

Machine parents that bad ? And why

How much was Machine this 2022 season all said and done 10k under or over with traveling and World series ?

Way over . Travel expense, hotels , tolls , fuel , extra bling.

Posted by his dad, BS himself!! Lol

Didn’t qualify for World Series. How do you think they are? Kids left, 2028 attack went to lumberjax probably hoping for better results this time around

Rebels will surprise many people this year, upgraded at all positions. 3-4 x a week indoor training.

To be honest, They improved from the prior year also. Our parents nearly lost their mind when we couldn't beat them by more than 1

Rebels nearly beat Legacy and S2S
And gave Igloo a competitive game.

Very impressive....almost beat a team and was competitive against another team . Sign me up please

No. The kid is not the best. Not even close.

So which group of families was losing their mind?

These are not helpful posts. You only irritate people. Rebels families included.

Or you are anti rebels and that is your goal

Did any of the express east or rebels east get there roster size? Just curious

Amazing ....the boys baseball little league world series has been in the news for weeks leading up to the actual world series . ESPN carrying games and evrey news outlet giving it air time . Can't say the same about lacrosse. Nobody even remembers or knows there was a world series.

Because lacrosse zero future and barley get any money for school . No one goes to college games not until NCAA’s . People are obsessed with the sport . Bettier off playing the trumpet . Total facts and realistic check ….

My son plays lacrosse and he loves it . However, it amazes me how the owners/former players walk around like they're something special . Reality check, you're not that special and most people across the country don't know who you are not do they even know what lacrosse is . So take it down a bit h with your egos. It's both funny and sad to watch these characters act like they're some kind of big deal

Lol, so true. Nobody cares about lacrosse except the players and their parents. At all levels. Smart people use sports such as lacrosse to get into the best academic school possible, which opens up doors.

Legacy 2027. Now have a second B team and then 15 miles away a Legacy East team 2027. To join everyone else with east teams. What' next? WEST TEAMS? wonder if they will actually have a present head coach or more daddy coaching? Dm

It is laughable

Watching now hands down rather watch this the past couple
weeks than any youth lacrosse or even the PLL !!!!

Don’t a fair amount of their teams, especially 2027 Gators pull from the East end?
Just wondering…..
Seems like they are working against themselves by adding an East team.

But yet here you are on a youth lacrosse forum with the sole purpose of speaking poorly and bashing lacrosse.

Maybe the Moose will have a present HC and not a dad coach undermining the team

Yep Gators should be "East" port Jeff should be Legacy " north?? . Regardless hope players and families get what they pay for.

Moose Lax?? hahaha

No the Legacy B team 2027 is named Moose . No joke

Have no problem with daddy coaches with a great resume. Look at Machine full of dads but how many Daddy coaches on Gators and hows there Resume as ex players and coaches ?

There is Pros and Cons to Dad coaches and non dad . Non dad your get less of the 100% commitment .

Most likely because Mooselax 2027 folded and became Legacy B.
Legacy had been trying to establish a B team at 2027 for several years but couldn’t get enough kids to the tryout. They worked things out with the Moose to make it happen.

Most likely because Mooselax 2027 folded and became Legacy B.
Legacy had been trying to establish a B team at 2027 for several years but couldn’t get enough kids to the tryout. They worked things out with the Moose to make it happen.[/quote legacy loves merging with everyone , Rush Moose whats next ?

How many teams does Express have this year. Their A team, than they have the Chucks, what about the Wats?

Nope. Not sure what they are waiting for

Rebels got roster no tournament yet

BOC why are you restricting posts???

Haha. You must have posted negative things about 91 or Legacy. Joke

Who runs/owns BOC

Go to DCUM forum- lacrosse

Advertise on BOC you get perks anyone talking about you lol

Probably. They are soft and cant handle any criticism. I bet this post doesn't make page but they have been trying to block me out for weeks lol

It's a joke of a forum ... parents come on here to prop their kids team up or to rip a club/coach apart . Everything is exaggerated or negative depending on what the parent is trying to do . Sad

Same could be said about club owners and coaches but certainly there is no accountability. Their MO is to just blame the parents as if they are the only fool ones

Accountability is the rankings. If you are at the top you are the best, if not get to work.

So if you are ranked high it gives organizations the ok to bash parents aka the customer for all things wrong with lacrosse. Give me a break [Censored]

Rankings ...lol. what a joke . Must be a coach/director writing that . Nobody cares about rankings . Keep trying to sound important.

If your team was ranked good you would not be so salty.

Parents and kids care it’s for fun relax

And informs us parents which clubs are good and which are not.

If you're an adult looking at youth lacrosse rankings for "fun" to hen you have even more issues than I could imagine.

What happened to the Legacy 2027 B team " Moose?. Seemed to last a out 2 minutes. No longer listed on website?

Hmmm you made me look and you are correct.
No B team listed.
The turnout for tryouts has been very low recently so I guess they failed to field a B team again.
Gators just lost a bunch of players to other clubs. Maybe they had to pull up the Moose Lax players to fill holes created by the departing players?

What about people like yourself who checks this page?

Once they failed to qualify for World Series players bolted. Some dropped to 28 team some left altogether.

Rankings are fine. Just don’t take them too seriously.

Cough. Cough Money grab with these East programs . Express 2nd time trying this . Legacy also . Any refunds trying out and not establishing a team ??

1 player dropped to 2028 others just fed up with absentee head coaching and one dad coach given too much control who doesn't know what he is doing.

This is the Legacy way dads have to much control. TZ only cares about the money not the product he put out.

They only care about lumberjax team now

Fair. Use ranks to sort out proven track records. Good teams coached properly have a good rank and win. Good development for the most part has a good ranking. The same good clubs usually stand out as they have a proven formula and good rankings. Pretty easy. Was not easy for my oldest two when no rankings so we had to research more.

Same daddy coach that has son on the 2024 Taz . If it is enough already dude .

The rankings mean everything so don’t no what the argument is all about?

Not that coach.

The B Team went to Legacy East which is the old [Censored] and I heard players that got cut from gators went to that team and they and also players from Rebels joined as well. Sounds like rebels and Legacy East are the same team. Should be interesting.

Correct, the East teams are the B teams and the West are the A teams.

Is that for all organizations? Rebels East will play in same B tournaments as Rebels A team, how is that going to work if they have to play each other.

Unlikely that would happen.

Yup and people keep paying that insane tuition .

Who do you think compiles these rankings?? Specifically?. All smoke and mirrors. Bunch of 30-50 year old men in their basement drinking bud light and eating hot pockets acting bad[Censored]Useless rankings.

Definitely unlikely because that wouldn’t be good for the brand. They told us that we would be playing in the same tournaments as Rebels A but said the same thing. We most likely won’t play. I hope that is the case because that isn’t good for team building

Rankings would be good if they weren't biased ...worst kept secret is that 91 has a hand in the cookie jar with the rankings ....so until they're not biased they mean nothing

Would take an independent company going to games and independently ranking. Not happening. Rankings are useless with tons of teams.

Are people complaining about the USCL rankings or is there another ranking out there for 2027? From what I can tell its a fixed formula with no input other than game scores. Am I missing something? Of course it isn't perfect because there isn't enough inter-regional play but I've found teams have generally played pretty close to their rankings.

Yes , you're missing something ..it is " supposedly" a fixed formula but there are a lot of head scratching rankings that don't make sense at all which gives credence to the fact that certain clubs have "Influence" behind the scenes

You can select "Rating Math" and see the data and the computation so I'm still not sure where any outside influence comes in. Perhaps the teams are given different initial ratings so the "Opp Rating" is available early in the year? My only beef with it is that it seems to favor playing a weak schedule and beating teams by 10 as opposed to losing to some stronger teams. In my experience it's been surprisingly reliable - haven't seen many games where either teams rankings seemed wildly wrong.

From what I understand, it is the same formula the NCAA uses for their rankings. Some of the reasons it doesn't translate directly is because of the sheer number of club teams and then the fact the club teams sometimes play less games (depending on the club) both of which are factors which make a margin for error. Then, I think fall is also factored in which may also affect the rankings which we all know fall is kind of the the Silly Season.

I am not from LI so I have no horse in this race but I don't think 91 is messing with the rankings. The two things that people seem to misunderstand:

1) When someone says, well be beat "X" team or we win the NLF/NAL, etc - why aren't we ranked higher?". Lower seeds will sometimes beat higher seed but it doesnt make you higher because it depends on the outcome of all the other games you played

2) A lot of people look at the record but the strength of schedule does matter (as does margin of victory?). I see teams load up on cupcake tournaments and go undefeated and they wonder why they aren't ranked higher. Its because they played bad teams which affects the ranking. My kids team is a pretty decent team that sometimes beats but usually loses to teams in the top 40 in the country. So even though they may have losses, they play tough teams which keeps their rankings in the 50-60's.

And for those who say rankings are dense and why follow them must not watch college football, have any discussion over the greatest bands in the world, have your top 10 restaurants youve ever been to, ranked the greatest 3rd basemen in MLB history (Brooks), etc: its what we do as humans. We rank things - this just happens to have a numerical statistical evaluation assigned to it. The key is not to really care about it too much and look at it as a conversational piece or a loose representation of where your team stands. If it bothers you that much, just scroll on by.

👏🏼

How will the igloo AA team be this yr ?

Very good, thanks for asking!

Many left that team

Igloo hasn't been in the conversation for years as far as top boys 2027 teams on LI are concerned. I'm sure they are still pretty bad

"the conversation"...you mean the conversation amongst dad's living vicariously through their kids? The dad's that obsess over 10,11, 12 year old lacrosse teams and players? Sad....

28’s are not good either

We got another one. Does he/she realize they are checking in on the obsessed posts?? Hmmmm anyone got a mirror!!

A handful of Igloo starters are pretty decent.The problem is they have no depth and they were very small at midfield.They also lost 75% of their faceoffs.They had a couple of real good poles and an attack man but that was it.

Igloo is a sinking ship ....they're not a good club and are not considered among the elite teams on long island anymore

Sorry to say but igloo is not the only club fading fast. Plenty of other good options elsewhere. Training and coaching is what we pay for. Please keep the lip service and broken promises to yourself. These clubs charge an arm and a leg and still supply daddy ball, crappy training and cancelled practices.

AA is a lost.

It’s great to be a Outlaw!

It's not great to be a Legacy Gator. Pitiful day in NJ. Smh. Slide downward continues

Feel bad for those kids. They are nowhere close to AA. Drop down

Their 28 team didn’t do much better. Taz is the only team that stands out for that club.

Truth. Every marketing angle has ridden on Taz.

Reached out to igloo last yr for a solid F/O kid and asked reduce price because of all the training he does on the side . They said no . Oh well

Because they are way too expensive 1st off

Another club way to expensive and travel way to much . Are they doing FL again in December?

The expense to travel with an average team to get smashed during the holidays. Hard pass. Try winning local northeast first.

When the B team becomes better than the A team, there is a problem.

All teams care about. Get to close to 30 kid rosters at 4k a pop then passively aggressive families to do extraneous tournaments so the owners friends can make money at tournaments then reciptocate later. Legacy not only one but major player here

It’s great to be a Outlaw!

Wasn’t funny the first time either

I do think it’s even greater to be part of teams that don’t fold.

How about the reclass/holdback issue ...heard there are certain teams with 6 holdback/reclass players on their roster . Along with coaches kids . Ridiculous

And the loud Daddy Coach did any others follow ? Set back for Machine !!

Was loud daddy coach the best player dad?

Yes heard he got Deebo from the movie Friday from another parent thats why hes gone any truth ? Poor kid .

a machine attackman went back on grade to the venom

It’s great to be a Outlaw!

Outlaws folded. No need to keep posting your statement.

And their best player , also on attack left willingly for s2s

Typical Legacy. They want no bn part of Express in their Columbus day tournament. Weak.

can that attackman play in World Series or is he aged out by then?

Question about the Apex Youth games this weekend.... How are the players to watch determined??? I'm assuming the parent just pays more as I have seen some of the kids play that are players to watch and some are average at best. Can anyone confirm?

Organization is asked by apex who are your top players. That's it. Bogus. They may get it right sometimes but i am sure kids get overlooked with politics

Not surprised

Family tradition

Easy, its based on who's the oldest.

Apex asks the coaches…coaches immediately go into
crisis mode and have to narrow down which parents will freak out the most sending texts, emails and phone calls to coaches and club owners if their kids aren’t on the list….merit based for sure

Definitely not their best player

Padding their own tournament is not suprising for those Two faced directors. They may still struggle anyway smh

Legacy gators and legacy east stunk

Gators have fallen hard. Don't want to single out kids but that team is so small.

Is the dad coach still the de facto head coach?

Some things never change ....Machine playing B teams at their own "my lollipop tournament"....should be ashamed of yourselves. Weak .

Been telling someone i know on Gators move on still with them . Terrible product organization puts out for insane tuition and would join the east team ? So many other options for teams

Hey...look at us we beat all teams for a combined 80-0 . Yippy . Sad. Go play in real tournaments outside of your dynamic owned tournaments.

It’s a great day to be a Outlaw!

which tourney?

Fall jam....sad B team tournament

Whos this coach that always comes up on here ? Good or bad

If your kid plays for them or has played in last several years you know who it is. . No not a good situation. Just a reason the ownership has let that team slide out of control and i dont think ownership even cares as long as tgey get their close to 30 players at 4k a pop..too bad team had potential at one time

Don't have an opinion on machine one way or the other, but what's wrong with starting the fall season with some warm-up games? College teams do it all the time.

Lollipops ? They played up and destroyed the competition. Where do you want they to Play ?

"Played up" lol.......same thing different year . Played up in a horrible tournament against horrible 2026 B teams that any 2030 team could beat . Go out of your own weak tournaments, take a trip to Delaware and Maryland and play BBL, hawks , and other top teams in your grade level . You don't fool anyone when you " play up" against horrible teams . Everyone knows that the 2026 B brackets are weak .

It’s a great day to be a Outlaw!

They 2026 Legacy team . Someone is very jealous i see . You will be OK. Serious question please answer What team does your kid play for again so i compare here ?

Very jealous person

Honestly - it can be a little dangerous playing up against A and B level teams. No one likes getting beat by younger and smaller kids, and some of those A and B teams replace skill with aggression.

I mean why are you still worried about machine they took the World Series and you’re still upset about it. Move on

Are you going to answer what team your son plays for ?
Sincerely, GV

Won what ? Old news champ…..nobody cares or remembers the World Series . See you at the NAL in November . That’s a real tournament

You’ll find out where my sons team plays when we play machine. Will be loud and clear .

Shore scrimmage Vs kodiak last night.

Kodiak looks like a 6th grade Pal team compared to shore. Shore handled them easily and got Ugly quick. Kodiak tallest player was maybe shoulder height of many shore players. Dad on kodiak mentioned 7 B kids up from their organization and it showed.

Going to be a long year for them. However, great group of parents and no issues on field.

All bark no bite . Enough already toxic parent .
Sincerely , GV

Thanks for the color...great accomplishment for Shore when "Kodiak tallest player was maybe shoulder height of many shore players"

Toxic parent? Lol. Machine parents are literally fist fighting their coaches and I’m a toxic parent . Hahaha, you’re too much. See you soon . I would bet the ranch that machine can’t handle real teams at The fall NAL coming up as well as next springs big tournaments. We shall see.

Oh will we ? You thinking that or little johnny ? Please answer are you little bit jealous ? Has your son tried out for 91 or played on Rage and couldn’t break the roster because the way you talk you have some thin skin for that team . Just enjoy the time dude .
Sincerely, GV

Jealous , hahaha. That's your answer for everything. You sound like a middle school girl

Genius, why did the almighty machine pull out of the closing NLF last season ? I'll help you with that ... apparently they were " afraid to lose and wanted to go out in a high note" hahaha...who does that ? Champions don't shy away from the biggest tournament if the summer . Facts

Stop hiding behind your keyboard . What team does your little johnny play for dad ? Lets hear it all talk

GV

You have to hear yourself . Who cares .

S2S will spank machine any time any place

Stop it 😭😭😭

Let me quess your on your 3rd or 4th club team tough dad

Is anyone HUMBLE anymore about this non future dead end sport when its all said and done ?? Enjoy the moment now when they are 13 yrs old . Im sure half the. Parents on here cant run a 100yard sprint . Relax already. Its comical.

More important than all of this...does anyone know who/why the creepy dad takes pictures/videos of teams/kids other than his own son???

Is it the long haired guy from 91 who is always at other team games?

You mean the Coach of the World Series Champions 91 Machine who scouts? If that guy he was also MLL and college star as well as top youth coach. Wish he coached my sons team.

no you don’t

Get a hold of yourself ......and your head out of BS behind . Oh and by the way he want a college star so relax pal...he played at Hofstra and was not a star there. As far as the world series ....the world what ? Nobody cares about the world series. You're living in the past ...nobody cares about the world series last year and definitely not this year . Nice job 91 dad, you're pathetic.

I think it is the most penalized player who ever played the game.

We were with 91 in the early years. They do develop players well and obviously have good teams but since it is youth lacrosse the sleazy vibe you got with the organization, some coaches and parents i am glad we left ( yes voluntarily because some fool i am sure will chime in ' oh your kid wasnt good enough etc ) when i was at a tournament and saw them struttung in with a wagon and boom box i said to myself yhat i was glad my kid wasnt in that bs environment especially with a deadend sport .

Bingo.....same here left voluntarily and glad we did . Obnoxious, trashy organization from top to bottom

Brian was a 1st team AA his senior year at Hofstra and is probably the best all-around defensive player I ever played against. I take it you never played lacrosse?

We left too. Best move ever!

Brian was a 1st team AA his senior year at Hofstra and is probably the best all-around defensive player I ever played against. I take it you never played lacrosse?[/quote

That's right ....senior year only . Also was the most penalized player by a wide margin in professional. Hardly something to be proud of and considered a dirty , less skill player by his peers

I don’t know the guy as a coach but any player who is a D1 first team AA shouldn’t ever be bashed for his lacrosse abilities.

I am his peer, you are not. Stop.

[Censored] 91 (and youth lacrosse) all you want, but pretending that BS was some sort of mediocre player back in the day is complete and utter nonsense.

And there you go. The oldest comeback on thus anonymous thread. As soon as you challenge anything with an organization or person it is mentioned that uou didn't play lacrosse or sny other athletic accomplishment from parent. You are only a toxic parent who sits on couch living through your kid !?!? Give me a break.

Re: I am his peer and you're not.

Seriously you want to go down this road? Being a former D1 coach albeit not lax i could [Censored] off on coaches and organizations that cannot evaluate overall athleticism in this sport which overlaps with all sports. Ie they will look for the kid with a flashy stick at a young age but miss the fact you have middie who cannot protect ball or get seperation at the midfield or upu have 6 undersized attack who get manhandled etc.

Just because somone played d1 lax doesn't mean they can coach or evaluate talent necessarily

Yes, their ‘B’ team progressed a lot last year due to a great coaching staff. Yes, it’s true a lot of the ‘A’ team players left, but they moved up about eight players from the ‘B’ team to the ‘A’ team. Fall will be tough for them to transition to the higher level of play. However, by Spring time they should be a solid ‘A’ team. If the team can stay together maybe they will be able to compete at the ‘AA’ level next year. FYI - the team is 100% on age, no holdbacks.

Yes, Igloo’s ‘B’ progressed a lot last year due to a great coaching staff. Yes, it’s true a lot of the ‘A’ team players left, but they moved up about eight players from the ‘B’ team to the ‘A’ team. Fall will be tough for them to transition to the higher level of play. However, by Spring time they should be a solid ‘A’ team. If the team can stay together maybe they will be able to compete at the ‘AA’ level next year. FYI - the team is 100% on age, no holdbacks.

Agreed.

Some former D1 AA dad coaches, from various organizations, lost sight of their original objective, the development of all players through the game of lacrosse irrespective if they were coaching their own who is on that team. These former D1 AA dad coaches are not only hurting their non favorite or non son players in the form of non exposure in the fear of their son being upstaged by a clearly better overall teammate. The player child is also negatively affected by this toxic environment because all sons feel an obligation to over please their dad which could cause extreme stress for that player child.

Organizations need to go back to why they originally started their given organization and not lining their pockets because children are getting messed up mentally and are not being nurtured through this great game of lacrosse.

SAD

I didn't say anything at all about coaching or talent evaluation. I have no experience with 91 or any of its teams.

I just called bull when someone on here claimed that BS was just a mediocre player back in the day. He most certainly was not.

agreed but you also must agree that you made a large assumption that all D1 AA Dad Coaches not just 91 also Express, Igloo, Rebels, etc etc the list goes on Dad Coaches at least 85-90% of the time are only worrying about their own and favorites not all the kids on the team. Maybe these parents should stop looking at their son’s coaches’ resume and watch what that coach is actually doing for your son in practice, training sessions that are extra really?!?! So these organizations’ creators were already known names from their careers but they lost sight of their actual goals and intentions originally held by them when they started their respective organizations. Then money, business partners, etc etc leads to losing those original awesomely principals of facilitating relationships between players and players, players and coaches, and also fostering relationships with all opponents and opposing coaches. No one says it like it is, parents should not focus on the lacrosse knowledge your child receives from their given organization and D1 AA Dad Coach, focus on the values that are being instilled while developing those useless lax skills when it comes to life. This principal I have never forgotten through many years of participating in this great game, which is: Coaches should never coach a team that has their blood on the roster. That coach will always lose their focus and nepotism occurs. It’s human nature, can’t do anything about it but find a team without any coaches that have a children or relatives on your son’s roster. For many years in the past before pay to play travel organizations, coaches had no ulterior motives. Those coaches coached up ever child in the way they child needed to be coached up, while instilling teamwork, work ethic, sportsmanship etc etc.


Need to get back to those core values instilled in the past and not what I call currently bizzaro world (Seinfeld reference sorry)!!!

What’s wrong with calling it like it is???

Please enough ready about 91 and the coach . Anything eles you parents can talk about ? Lets go Zelden for Governor for NY !!

Sincerely GV

really you are a snuck get off this forum you are cancer to it.

Who ?

When you have to slash your way through lacrosse with the most penalties ever by a very wide margin, you are mediocre. No skill just rah rah

What happened with Team 91 LI Machine at NAL last weekend? Machine lost to 3D New England 5-9, and then LI Express beat 3D New England 9-5. Was Machine missing players? Is 3D that good?

Congrats to LIE for taking home the title at NAL, but those results were all over the place...

Mesa beats BBL and Mad Dog National

LIE squeaks by FCA MD and Madlax in back-to-back OT games, and then rolls to relatively easy wins over 3D and Mesa.

Machine takes down Mad Dog National in consolation game.

Then after going 1-2 at NAL, Mad Dog National takes down Red Hots, Next Level and DC Express the next day to go 3-0.

Their holdbacks plane was delayed.

Does Machine have holdbacks?

Holdbacks were there for many of the teams listed above just not for Machine. Let the guesses start.

darn. Some free time on your hands. Maybe you should be the beat reporter for ESPN youth lax?.

It's actually quite simple ....machine went out of their own "my lacrosse tournament" and lost . And they will lose all of the big tournaments in the spring .

Express beat machine 9-4 last year so let's not pretend that machine is the better team . They got a cakewalk I to the final of the woods qeeies and then beat a tired BBL team that had a much harder path. Keep looking at the tournaments that they play in and I will gaurantee you that if it's not a " my lacrosse tournament" that they own and control the brackets they will lose every time

What's the deal with Legacy Gators? They got smoked once again.free falling.

Says the guy lurking on an 8th grade lacrosse forum. We all have issues here. Just own it.

Simpler explanation-it’s fall lacrosse, kids have other sports obligations and line ups change day to day

Isn't if funny how USCL posts 91 highlighta only dron the NAL when they didn't win anything. Where are the winners or plays from the winning teams ? Hmmm....biases.much ?

Machine are at a disadvantage because they are 'on age'. They get beat when they play 14-15 yr olds.
Express has figured out that the only way to win a tournament like the NAL is by having a higher average player age. Their 2027 squad is now mostly hold-backs/reclasses/kids who should already be in HS.

I saw them both at NAL, and the Machine kids looked bigger than Express TBH.

A bit too late for 2027 but a good thing. Maybe my grandkids wont deal with the bs as much
https://www.insidelacrosse.com/arti...tm_term=0_92eedbe203-453270e06b-56796588

Every team has their share of holdbacks, including Machine.

Wrong. Nice try Machine dad.

To start off I am not a 91 parent. I don’t understand why everyone rips Machine apart. They truly are a great on age team. I was at the NAL this weekend and a large majority of those teams are not on age. That’s why most of them were not in the World Series. And it’s ironic now that there is an article out about changing the rules for youth lacrosse to follow birth year, like every other sport.

As for Express, they have 6-8 kids on that team that are close to 15 years old.

To start off I am not a 91 parent. I don’t understand why everyone rips Machine apart. They truly are a great on age team. I was at the NAL this weekend and a large majority of those teams are not on age. That’s why most of them were not in the World Series. And it’s ironic now that there is an article out about changing the rules for youth lacrosse to follow birth year, like every other sport.

As for Express, they have 6-8 kids on that team that are close to 15 years old.

Sounds about right

Not true. You’re spending misinformation about this Express team. Funny, don’t remember anyone ever saying Machine didn’t deserve WSL chip. Time to look in the mirror.

So you’re saying express doesn’t have any holdbacks on the 2027 team? That is definitely not true. Repeating 8th grade before enrolling at St. Anthonys is definitely holding back…

Just to clarify some things . Express has 4 coaches sons on the team as well as 4 reclassed kids . Anyone that says differently is lying . Oh and by the way to the reclassed kids dads,guess what ? True " studs" don't reclass, real studs stay at their age level and rise above the competition. It's sad what's happening with the reclass situation but it appears that a fix is finally on its way . I bet all reclassed kids parents are now paranoid to see what happens with their kids .

Put perfectly your kids can’t be studs if they can’t hang with their own age 😂

And don't forget , 2 of the 4 coaches kids are holdbacks . So that's 6 kids in that team that are one year older

What do you mean about the fix is on its’s way ? Is lacrosse finally going to be like yourh soccer thats Strict and other sports and have some kind of age appropriate card have to show ??

They should just change the team name to " Haugen's holdbacks"

https://www.insidelacrosse.com/arti...cation-is-coming-to-youth-lacrosse/60381

Yes . There is an article on inside lacrosse about reclassing and how they are hoping to fix that issue as soon as next spring.

#realstudsdontreclass

#hatersaregonnahate

detest what exactly ....the facts are very clear-the top players in their respective age group don't reclass .,no need to...so I'll assume your son wasn't getting any playing time with his age group so you reclassed him ? Good for you guy I'm sure he's a star now . Get the video reels ready

he got into a fight the week before the world series with a parent and got tuned up

he got into a fight the week before the world series with a parent and got tuned up

Machine Dad

Truth

Man this is the third or fourth post from Kaos that I agree with....strange times

😂😂

Express has kids that play at multiple yrs for the WS. The reclassing is disgusting

You're mixing apples and oranges ....yes they do use players from different years for ws but guess what it's all according to the ws rules with a birth certificate

The reclassing is a diffi story . As the person earlier said ,if you're son is really a student he doesn't reclass . The best players in their respective age groups that are good players get playing time and stay with their " real " graduation year . These reclassed kids/parents are delusional and yes it is disgusting

It’s a great day to be a Outlaw!

Don’t let facts get in the way of a good story. Both the top commits in ‘22 and ‘21 (from the same LI club) reclassed. Some would say multiple times.

Lol....if you're an express reclass parent you are delusional if you think your student of a son will be a top commit .hahaha, not even close pal but hey can't fault a guy for dreaming

I believe that but the problem is everyone things little Johnny is going to be the top recruit. Let him play at his own age group and take it from there

Real studs don't reclass

Makes it even worse that the parents encouraging this work in education or have positions of influence in youth athletics.

Makes it even worse that the parents encouraging this work in education or have positions of influence in youth athletics.

If they are playing in the WS multiple years they are playing UP the first year and on-age the second year. Congrats to that kid!

So then why were the last 2 top recruits from Long Island (Duke and Syracuse) both kids who were a year older than everyone else ? If you look at the top 10 recruiting classes the last few years they almost all are reclassed. I think reclassing is silly but the stats don’t lie. If a reclassing moves you into the top 10 as opposed to a top 50 recruit……that will have a big impact on how much money you receive.

Listen put little Johnny back in correct grade.

Let's just tell it like it is .....the team with the most reclassed kids is express for 2027. The 2026 team is deep and has a lot of talent , so your sons just weren't good enough to hang with those kids . Just because your sons reclassed does not automatically make them the number one recruit in the country . They have to play the game and based on what I have heard so far, you wasted your time reclassing as your son is still not some kind of student that you think he is . Good luck getting that money you speak of , not happening . Besides, it sounds like come next spring/summer you won't even be allowed to play with 2027 if the new rules are enforced.

And let me stop you before you start saying " stop complaining " etc......is USCL is addressing the issue then it's a sport wide ,parent wide agreement that reclassing has gotten out of hand . It's actually pretty ridiculous that some kids are graduating college at 24 for lacrosse. Absurd .

Pretty accurate …

But wull tournament organizers be left to enforce? If so then there is no chance these guys " roll " on teams that pay er entry fees then reciprocate at tgeor tournament. We know the organizations that do this

Sadly the parents that have older kids playing down technically, don’t think they are cheating. They believe their kid is a star. But we know he is playing younger kids. It really is gross.

Years ago, everybody knew the kids who played up. Those kids were admired. Those days are long gone.

Just a reminder - there are 27's in LI that are still only 13yr old's having to against 15yr old's when they travel out of state.
Think about that.

You guys have beaten this horse to death over and over again. These boys are almost in high school. If you talk about this at home your boys hear you and you are giving them built in excuses to not play hard against the holdbacks. What’s next? They get to high school and say “but dad, he’s a sophomore/junior I can’t beat him”. In the immortal words of Coach Boone “you’re crippling them, you’re crippling them for life”. The age cutoff is a unicorn, especially for this age group.

Not sure what your point is ? Are you saying reclassing is justified or are you saying that reclassing is ridiculous because they have to play older kids ? Regardless, I'm sure 99.9% of parents and kids polled will tell you that holding back and reclassing is ridiculous. As a matter of fact , even the college players think it's ridiculous. My son did a training with a kid in college who didn't reclass and was also a top recruit and he talked about how ridiculous it is as well . You will not find anyone in support of reclassing except for those parents who are forcing their kid to do it . It's sad and pathetic.

There’s a nice growth spurt from 8th to 9th holdback dad..no one’s crippling anyone for life 😂🤣😅

Ha! Playing up? I’m thrilled when I can even find guys playing on-age in the AA level. Growing up I remember the best baseball players played up to get better. I was not exposed to this world of holding back, “late birthdays”, parent supported reclassing etc. It is just so bizarre that parents want their kids to be surrounded by younger smaller less mature children just so that they can thump their chest at the club and say “my kid plays AA for …”

All of you crying about holdbacks sound worse than the very few parents who support it. Life isn't fair. Adjust and move on. The kids will be stronger for it.

No one’s crying hold back dad.. just a shame how it’s become the new thing to do and everyone’s jumping on board.

#realstudsdontreclass

Think about this for a minute...at a game on the sidelines a kid scores a goal or does something good on the field and one parent says to the next " oh that's kids a reclass/holdback "........your reclass.ia never going to get the credit for doing something on the field because he's a reclass/holdback ....you can't have it both ways ..is what it is . But if it makes you feel better than I guess it's worth it right ?

There’s a nice growth spurt from 8th to 9th holdback dad..no one’s crippling anyone for life 😂🤣

Forgive me if I don’t take the advice of Dr Bearded Kaos on the growth potential of Americas youth. Go string a stick Bro

Think your holdback can help me string this stick 😭😭😂

I actually agree with him. What’s the sense of complaining about this constantly. It is what it is and hopefully they will change it. To be honest it won’t impact this age group anyway. They’ll be in high school by then.

His son'l doesn't have time to string a stick , he's too busy " dominating " kids younger than him lol

😭😭guess this stick will never get strung 😭

Dads who string sticks have the most major league issues.

If they don't get maimed along the way, sure.
Safety is a concern bozo.

If they don't get maimed along the way, sure.
Safety is a concern bozo.

C’mon man admit it, you grew up playing Dungeons and Dragons in your fort in the backyard. Week to week the worst injury I see in youth lacrosse are kids getting hit in the stones by the ball. And no my kids aren’t holdbacks and no I don’t support it blah blah blah. But I simply don’t see kids getting “maimed” in a sport where a push in the back draws a flag

Agreed.

The folks like you that say move on are the problem just as much as the holdbacks. People have been voicing their opinion on boards like this and directly to clubs and US Lacrosse and they are making progress. Not everyone has an only child or just thinks about themselves. Some care about the sport, some are looking out for their younger kids who hopefully will not have to deal with holdbacks if they voice their opinions now. You either have a defeatist attitude or you are a holdback Dad. Either way people have the right to voice their opinions and you have the right to scroll on by if you don’t want to read it.

the joke about holdbacks is that people truly do it for the outside chance their kid will be a good athlete as a child (moms and dads dreams) thats the true stupidity of it all. Instead letting the kid develop naturally see where he/she stands senior year maybe then pg a a year accomplish the same thing by then at least you will have a true idea if he/she will be a "player" thats the right way to do it, not the current way where its done so little Johny can be the best lax player on a 7th grade team...thats dense and parents need to get a clue . I agree nobody is getting maimed in lax it's not that type of sport , the kids are getting burnt out from the over playing but not maimed. I ve heard so many stories of kids going to college to play lax then giving it up b/c they were tired of it after playing year round for 10-12 years of their lives. Create well rounded athletes thats what needs to be the focus ,not a laser focused specialist lax player as kids. We can look back at our sports lives and remember the kid who was the great player in 6-8th grade and got to high school and just disappeared.

Holdbacks take roster spots and time on the field away from on age kids, that’s the problem. Some kids will never have the chance to “get stronger” because they are being blocked. Take a look at the top ranked kids and, more often than not, they are on the older side. It’s a clear advantage. It’s not even really debatable and I don’t blame parents for doing it. I’ve seen it with my older son, on his 91 team two kids dropped down right before they entered 9th grade, one’s going to Harvard, the other Michigan. It worked. The two starters they replaced weren’t quite as happy.

Why isn’t Machine listed as #1 in the latest US Club Rankings?

The best is the parents that claim their kid plays up - when they're just a hold back and are actually playing on age. That always gives me a laugh.

There was an attackman who made varsity in 8th grade a few years ago that even got an article in Newsday. Hold back - whoop-de-do, the kid was older than most freshman. But Newsday bought in and ran with an article about this star 8th grader. Total joke. Worst part is, the kid was a great player. Too bad Mom and Dad had to put a cloud around it with BS hype to boost their own egos.

It's very simple ....because they're not #1. Not even close . Might not even crack the top 10.

#realstudsdontreclass

Yea, but if the rankings were based off on age teams - Machine would be #1.
No one is impressed with the holdback teams.

Agreed on this. 91 would still be number 1 if age-based. The rankings are pointless. It is essentially a list of the teams with the oldest players.. The top three clubs are probably stacked with kids who could/should be in HS already

Whaaa...whaaa...whaaa. 91 cry babies at it again . A lot of would of , could of , should ofs....go win some games and be quiet . You do a lot of talking about holdbacks for a team that claims that they " play up " into 2026 brackets . How does that make any sense ?

The original Orange Crush team inadvertently caused the holdback phenomenon in club lacrosse. The Non- LI clubs didn't have the skill or drive to coach kids up correctly so they resorted in playing their older kids down to make up for the skill and work ethic. And now here we are.

Sad

Makes sense they played up in b or c brackets these holdbacks are coming from A or Aa teams to come beat on little teams . The rankings are a joke again the top teams have the most holdbacks so it is what it is..

You mean that crush team introduced holdbacks.....we all know that the beloved #1 recruit going to Syracuse is a holdback lol

You're not making any sense once again... Your 91 machine says that they play up yet you complain about holdbacks....makes no sense whatsoever

Kaos.....your team went to the "on age " world series and got smoked off the field and went 0-4.....didn't win one game . So stop.your crying , it's embarrassing

I’ll stop crying once your team gets rid of holdbacks. Holdback dads are the best 😂😂

Kaos.....your team went to the "on age " world series and got smoked off the field and went 0-4.....didn't win one game . So stop.your crying , it's embarrassing[/quote]


And a little off subject are we 😂😂kids had a blast loved the experience. Your team didn’t take the championship so what’s the issue 😭😭😭😭 exactly

And a little off subject are we 😂😂kids had a blast loved the experience. Your team didn’t take the championship so what’s the issue 😭😭😭😭 exactly[/quote]


Wow...let me slow it down for you . A..B...C
..D...E...F...G.....back to kindergarten. You are complaining about holdbacks when your team had a chance to beat "on age " teams and couldn't even win one game . So whether the teams are on age now or have holdbacks what's the difference? You'll get smoked either way . And your a 91 dad where one of your teams brags that they play up but you're complaining about holdbacks . Can't have it both ways . Get a clue about what you're saying .

B team dad are the best

#realstudsdontholdback/reclass

Wow...let me slow it down for you . A..B...C
..D...E...F...G.....back to kindergarten. You are complaining about holdbacks when your team had a chance to beat "on age " teams and couldn't even win one game . So whether the teams are on age now or have holdbacks what's the difference? You'll get smoked either way . And your a 91 dad where one of your teams brags that they play up but you're complaining about holdbacks . Can't have it both ways . Get a clue about what you're saying .[/quote]


Where’s the rest of the alphabet..

Igloo Kodiak is pathetic this year, no bright spots on the team and have lost to countless b teams in the fall

What's the point of this post?

The coach destroyed the team. That's what happens when you have a daddy coach.

Hold backs and reclasses are not about youth lacrosse and winning t shirts. It’s about college. It could mean the difference between D3 and D2 and scholarship $. Or D2 and D1. It’s about using lacrosse to get into the school that maybe as a regular student applying you get wait listed.

Good luck with that holdback/reclass dad. I have now personally seen quite a few holdbacks and reclassed kids that are just not that special and won't make a difference for them . I've seen a reclass not play that much, I have seen a reclass make the B team etc......just because they reclass doesn't make them a great player . And definitely haven't seen any one kid dominate this past fall that reclassed so you're just one of the bunch now just one year older . Oh and by the way , nobody cares about lacrosse that much anyway.....so good luck trying to get your one year older son I to a school for lacrosse, when he joins the real world it will be irrelevant.

If it were only about college then the best approach would be to play on-age for as long as possible and only reclass in 8th or 9th grade. That lets the kid develop against the best competition and still be older during their hs sophomore season. The fact that many parents choose to hold back as early as 4th and 5th grade indicates it is about bragging rights and t shirts.

No. It’s about masking no talent while that no talent kid steps over on age kids who have more talent. It’s cheating the system and worse teaching no talent kids to cheat in life. Highly doubt this cheating teaches life time values for success. Everyone is laughing behind you and your kids back. You’re lost.

Exactly. After 9th grade no one cares about the holdbacks.

Not true. All the on age kids and parents care of whom these holdbacks stepped over to steal the limelight. Go ahead and wear that scarlet letter H proudly. SMH

Only the parents of the teams that lose care about holdbacks.

Can’t play senior year if you repeat freshmen year. LI not a great place to reclass cause of lack of private/prep schools. Lax may not matter that much. But going from a Richmond on age to a Duke as hold back makes a difference.

Going to Duke lol.... I holdback/reclass I have seen in the 2027 age group is going to Duke ..keep dreaming

Sorry to burst the reclass dad bubble but it's very simple ...if your son is a game changing great player like you think he is ....he should be playing up not reclassing and playing down . Think about that for a minute ...you think your son is so special , first if all if he is special then he's a starter with his own age group ....and if he's really unbelievable then he plays up . Your not fooling anyone but yourself with this reclass [Censored] . And from what I hear there are some private high schools on long island that will no longer allow reclassing ....good move . Time for the reclass dad to go home and look in the mirror and say " what the heck did I just do for my son " . There is not one positive reason for reclassing . You are basically telling your son hes not good enough to compete at his own age level ....very sad

LOL, is right. Jeez.
These holdback dads are delusional.
Definitely the same guys paying for national team showcases at the end of July for 8th grade college coach "exposure"

My guess is that most kids that reclass don't end up benefiting at all. They end up at D3 schools they wouldn't otherwise want to go to and could get into if they didn't even play lacrosse. Instead of choosing the best school for their future they choose one so the parents can tell people "my son plays college lacrosse".

With that said - there are kids that reclass that do benefit and get into a top school they otherwise would not have. I just think those cases are a really small minority.

How many of the top 50 or 100 prospects each year are on age?

Seems like the percentages are definitely slanted to holdbacks so the coaches want old kids and don’t care about youth competition.

Parents are chasing Maryland and Syracuse and Princeton etc,. Until those schools stop rewarding it nothing will change.

The holdback scenario really benefits the kid at a younger age in youth. They get extra year of training and playing up. Then by the time HS rolls around they are probably much better at Lacrosse from that extra year and playing up? Then when they move down at youth after playing up and getting some extra size. They stand out and get to be starters and that gets them better and the attention.

With all that said, I do not believe holdbacks at the youth level should be allowed! Hope the rules change as it’s a clear unfair advantage for the elite! Kids should only be allowed to play up and never down! It really needs to go to age based and that’s that!

While I agree with most of this especially the part that lacrosse needs to be age based ....I disagree with the whole " gets them better and more attention". I have personally watched reclassed that just aren't that special at all and don't stand out . Have also seen kids reclass and not even start . So that being said it's really a bad decision on the parents part ....but I guess everyone think they're son is special lol so it is what it is

Do you guys all pee sitting down? No need to reply, I know the answer, carry on with holdback discussion for the next year

Thanks for the advice reclass dad ....we know you don't like to be called out on reclassing your kid be asue it's weak but it's a relevant discussion that affects the kids and the teams ..so carry on with your brainless comments

Maybe check the rosters of most D-1 schools and see how many are “on age” it’s not too many. The rules will never change, go scroll through BOTC for the past 5-6 years, same tired argument. If your kid is that good, the holdback doesn’t matter, if he’s not, then the holdback will dominate him. I know it’s tough to hear but it’s a fact. BTW, those touting D-2 schools over D-3, they are subpar academic institutions, just look at them.

Funny that you mention that ....I personally know of a dominant 2026 team on long island that don't have only 1 reclass . That's it , and they still go out and dominate . What happened to the players that didn't play on that team, you guess right ...they reclassed . That doesn't make them any better , they just couldn't hang with that team and their own age group . That is all. They are not studs and never will be .

That’s great news! Since holdbacks are not studs can we talk about something else?

Heard Express A has some serious/blatantly obvious daddy ball issues ,many unhappy campers . That's a sure way to blow up a team .

Uh oh.....Coach C better wake up before he loses half the team

Sounds like someone hit a nerve. You pay for an extra tuition check, and junior still isn’t starting?

Remember holdbacks [Censored]. They are not studs. Only mediocre players need to holdback. It doesn’t make a difference in high school and college recruiting. Let’s move on.

The 15yr old freshman doesn't have an advantage over the 13yr old freshman?

Of course he does. If there was no advantage why would you do it?

Lol....coach C doesn't like to lose money , they better straighten it out before it's too late

Bingo!!

Would love to see Real Sports tv show do a piece on holdbacks. Imagine how fool the parents would come across on tv. You’re making your 13 yr old switch schools, leave his friends and repeat the same curriculum so he can gain an advantage in a sport that pays nothing essentially to its pro athletes.

Yes...I also heard that the daddy ball has reached an intolerable level . Awful

Some good competition down in Florida Club Nationals. Games started today. Should get heated up with all the games tomorrow!!

I love how everyone falls in love with these tournament names " club nationals " lol.....how is it a club national when some of the top clubs aren't even represented? And the best is not everything is a showcase in the winter even for 8th graders . What the " showcases " is nothing more than a [Censored] clinic at this point . So let's relax with the " club nationals " and " showcase " talk. You're just falling in line to shell out some money over the winter for the people who run these things .

Don’t forget about the “Club World Championship” in Texas this week…….. LOL!!!!

Some of the more ridiculous " showcases " on long island are run by long island lacrosse journal aka the winkoffs . Calling "showcases " and " college bound " things for kids as young as 7th grade ...they're awful . Then they put out a " all.long island team " which is another joke . They don't even know boys teams anymore and they claim to evaluate boys and create a long island all star team lol....again , no one goes to these things and they call them "top players" etc.......just stop already it's ridiculous. Grasping at straws for more money .

Well said.
They should also just call it the holdback club nationals.

Hahaha....go take a look at tourney machine . " Club national " event in Florida and a " club world championship "in Texas at the same time . These tournament guys are too much. All of these " national " and " world championship " events when if you look at the brackets there are some horrible horrible B level teams there . And of course the parents shelles out the money because it sounds special and they can post it all.over the place that their son was at a " national ' event whan in fact that are far from it . All they need to add now is " college bound national showcase " for 7th graders and we are all set .

Spot on. Most of those teams are stinkers. People spend a ton for these nonsense " National tournaments..smh

Next will be " the real national world championship tournament" followed by the " real national world showcase for 5th grade and up " lol....these guys are ridiculous and the parents are even worse posting slow mo videos on Instagram of their son looking really good when in fact the kid was cut 3 times and ia now on their 4th team . Come on now . And then of course as has been discussed at length on this thread , the videos come out of the reclass kids dominating kids younger than them lol...yes yes a real stand out ok layer ...let's go to the video tape lol

Posted this in the 25s

Lax truths

Love reading these forums and the variety of opinions. Some are very helpful and some are laughable. Having been through the process, here are what I believe, to me, tone the “truths” and by truth, it applies to the bell curve majority. Disclaimer: these truths are really just opinion and you know what they say about people with opinions…

1. Many parents are trying to live vicariously through their children. Thus they don’t make the best lax decisions because they are doing it for themselves md not their kids but they still try to justify it.
2. I’ve seen the majority of lax parents make a lax decision for their college choice, not an academic decision, which is a short term decision with long term consequences
3. The vast majority of successful lacrosse players are reclass / PG. Period. It works. But not for all….
4. …as those successful players that reclassed are not representative of the true outcomes of most the holdbacks. The majority end up not at duke or the ivies. People need to look at the people who delayed college by 1-3 years and ended up exactly where they would have been had they not held back. That is where the majority of holdbacks end up, back at square 1 or square 2, not square 100 like everyone believes they end up.
5. Lacrosse is finite. Anybody who dreams of making a living out of playing lacrosse should consider a different career path
6. Stop comparing lacrosse success to basketball and football success. It shows you just want to be a wannabe in a niche sport. Those NIL deals are not for you. And don’t use a Georgia qb as the gold standard for being closer to 30 then 20 years old as the dream we should be chasing.
7. See #4 for football and basketball as again, we only see the successes and not the majority of the people who don’t go on to succeed.
8. Holdbacks are not illegal. They are allowed.
9. Holdbacks are a [Censored] way to get ahead in life. Can’t succeed in your own grade? Go ahead and beat up on kids younger than you. You can use “holding back” to get ahead in life at this stage in your life but that “get out of jail card” is a one time use only. You can’t use a holdback to solve all your deficiencies; it usually just hides them. But everyone who holds back and ended up not succeeded has always found a way to justify their holdback and come up with some reason why it was good. No one has enough courage to say it was a mistake. Lacrosse rewards those who cannot compete in their own grade but it should be the other way around. If you want your kid to get better , play you, not down.
10. The majority of holdbacks don’t go on to UNC, Virginia, duke and ivies. See #4
11. Lacrosse is quickly becoming an niche sport that caters to the wealthy. Equity is becoming a huge problem.
12. Club lacrosse is a business. They do not care about your recruitment unless it benefits them
13. College and club lacrosse are the chokepoints of what is ruining lacrosse. They want older kids because they are more mature, faster and stronger and will do anything to get them. That’s why they want holdbacks.
14. No no one cares about club lacrosse in high school. Check the 2022-2024 forums. No one posted in them because no one cares
15. Prospect days are purely a way for coaches to make money, unless you are actually invited
16. Speaking of making money, showcases are also in it to make money
17. Guess what? There’s nothing wrong with making money. But don’t fall prey to every event that spams you with an email inviting you to super duper future phenoms apex first class 1% all american showcase. Chose your events carefully. Avoid most with an “all star” team. Use these events to get film.
18. To get recruited you will have to do the dirty work and get yourself exposed at some of these money making showcases and prospect days. Make film, contact coaches and teams and most of all be good because that is what you are eventually going to be judged on
19. #18 is a farce. The best way into college is through connections. I hope your high school coach or if you are lucky enough to have a club coach that cares, has those connections
20. There is nothing wrong with playing lacrosse in college. Do it to have fun. And don’t think for a moment that yiu can’t play play lacrosse in college. There are 75 d2 and 175 d3 schools all with spots available. That being said, see point #2
21. If you are pretty good then you can play d1. Everybody thinks d1 is unobtainable but there are plenty of d1 schools that are not that good that you can play at but…see point# 22
22. However don’t play d1 just for the sake of saying you played d1. You are much better off at a NESCAc or centennial d3 school then saying you played for Wagner hampton NJIT VMi sacred heart clevelandst vmi bellarmine Siena Detroitmercy LIU Manhattan etc. you get what I’m saying. The bottom 33 of lacrosse d1 are not that good and academically maybe not the strongest.
23. D2 is a good option but they are not the strongest academically
24. The majority of lax players go into finance. You want to go to a school with good education and good connections. And for goodness sake, when being recruited it is much better to say you are undecided then say anything in STEM. Many coaches don’t want students who study STEM. They want athletes.
25. Good luck being recruited if you play defense. They are the hardest to get recruited. Coaches want goalies, fogo, attackmen first. Then middies. Then LSM and SSDM and then dpoles last. The prospect days always seem to have too many dpoles and not enough middies.
26. If you are truly a superstar in the sport, then almost none of this applies to you. The rest of you? This is all “truth”
27. No matter where you go to school it will end up fine as soon as you stop chasing the lacrosse dream. Enjoy this time with your kids. It’s supposed to be fun. And please stop living vicariously through your kids. A wise man said don’t let lacrosse use you, you use lacrosse.

Remember this does not apply to everyone, it applies to the bell curve majority. Congrats to the few who beat the system or are lucky outliers. My condolences to those who spent 1-3 years reclassing and chasing a dream and missed out future income and personal growth. And yes, my two kids were not holdbacks and are doing perfectly fine playing lacrosse in college.

#realstudsdontreclass

Truth. #realstudsplayup

#realstudsdontreclass

There seems to be some class resentment in the reclass debate. Not every parent can afford it and that causes some jealousy. Reclassing is an advantage on the field, just like being rich is an advantage off the field. But you can't buy class, happiness, or speed. The best players will get recruited in HS, regardless of age.

Wait until the spring when the tournament directors ask for age based competition and require birth certificates as suggested by us lax. There are going to be some reclass/holdback kids sitting on the sidelines watching either the 2027 team or having to go to 2026 and never seeing the field lol....lose lose in my opinion. And yes , as if this coming spring if tournament directors follow the suggestions of us lax then they can and will ask for biirth certificates for age based as they can run the tournament how they see fit and I'm sure there will be at least a few tournaments that will take advantage of this new recommendation

Don’t see how they could enforce these rules with tournaments already paid for along with club tuitions, club directors would lose their minds. I’d expect these changes to be made going into next season. Also, if what I’m hearing is accurate the age window will be broader than you’d think. It would eliminate the double holdbacks but not the kids who would be on the edge of traditional age cutoffs.

What did you hear? How does it eliminate only double holdbacks. What are the guidelines.

With US Lacrosse taking an official stance on move to age base, Clubs and Tournament Directors will follow. If Clubs and Tournaments Directors don’t follow, they open themselves to liability. They won’t want to risk their organization or income over a few holdbacks.

US Lacrosse met with NLF and agreed on age based lacrosse Fall 2023-Summer 2024. All NLF events will be age based. Remember all the NLF teams and their affiliates are some big names in club lacrosse:
Crabs
HHH
Leading Edge
Team 91
LI Express
Laxachusetts
Denver Elite
Eclipse
Primetime
Madlax
Resolute
Thunder
Sweetlax
West Coast Starz

Holdback/reclass dads are shaking right now ....calling up the directors that recommended reclassing and saying " is this right ? Did you know this ? What did you do to us ? Can we have a refund ? " Lololol..

#realstudsdontreclass

There’s no way Crabs agreed to this.

We will see

They don’t need 100% of NLF members to agree in order to make a change.

https://www.insidelacrosse.com/arti...cation-is-coming-to-youth-lacrosse/60381

All Team 91 LI teams have little to no hold backs (some teams /grades have absolutely zero). And they are the very best team in the grade, more often than not. Not arguable. Can’t wait to see how they OBLITERATE these holdback teams, when they don’t have any holdbacks, which was the only thing that enabled them to be remotely competitive.

Think about that.

The best team in every grade, now will play every other team, only these teams won’t have any of their best players. Most will be made up of all new players who are a year younger. 91 Long Island teams will be the ONLY elite team at every grade, followed by the Express LI teams.

Facts...and its not even just 91'. The other LI clubs will win substantially more now as well with the change.
Lacrosse is going back to the middle class.

Are you actually reading the article? First of all, I don’t think any definitive decision has been made and most importantly, this will likely not apply to high school. Even if it is implemented, these boys will be in high school by then so it won’t apply to them.

I can see the younger ages getting excited by this news but the shop has sailed for this age group.

Correct

This is mainly being driven by 91LI. Anyone else see the part about it being voted on by all NLF teams ? Last I checked all of the other NLF teams are heavily laden with reclasses. Do you think it will get voted through? I have doubts.

Me too

The NLF directors have not been shy about their willingness to go ahead based . Last season they already installed " grade based tournament" where the holdbacks weren't allowed to participate. This year I'm sure after reclassing and being in the " same grade " they will move forward with age based tournament. We will see

It still won’t apply to this age group. According to the article at least.

When you're a tournament director it could apply to any age group you choose . It's your tournament and you make the rules . We will see

Yes but we are referring to this article and it says that it won’t apply to high school.

Speaking of high school....if you're a reclass because you didn't play on your on age team and felt the need to reclass....what happens let's say you choose to go to st Anthony's ? Now you're back in the same pool of kids who were playing with your " on age " team and you were on the sidelines . Do you think that you're going to play in high school when you couldn't even hang with those same kids on your club team ? I doubt it . You can't hide so once you mix back up in high school you'll be back on the sidelines again until senior year lol.....fools

Agreed which is why I’m not sure we talk about holdback so much. Especially at this age group. It’s time to move on.

It looks like there were some decent matchups at Sandstorm this weekend.

Looks like you’re the only who cares. How’d your son do?

Not quite sure why you have to be nasty but my son did well. It’s MLK day, try to practice some kindness.

It's MLK day.. Let me brag about how awesome by son is...

Nobody was bragging. You asked how he did I said well. Let’s not lie. Anyway it seems that you weren’t there. For those that were there, I thought the teams played well and there were some good matchups.

Looks to me from the results that s2s went to play with the big boys and got spanked . Those 2 wins were against bad teams .

Was it worth it to fly all the way to Cali to beat two mediocre teams?

Who were the mediocre teams?

Looks like S2S hung with everyone except maybe ADVNC. And ADVNC was probably the only top 10 team in the 2027 division. Kings, Texas Nationals and Nation United are solid top 20-ish teams in attendance. I don't know what S2S expectations were, but seems like a decent outing.

I guess the bar is very low at s2s "hung with everyone ".... congratulations

Another no knowing lacrosse dad pretzel!!!

Man I hope these kids don’t turn out to be anything like their parents.

s2s has been "hanging in there " for years ....same results different year

I will say this about s2s...they never shy away from the top teams . That being said , they never finish at the top of any tournaments with the top teams in them . Always still a few players away from being a great team that can win on the big stage .

Not every program can be top 10 caliber, and I don't recall anyone from S2S claiming to be the best. Like many other LI teams touted on here, they can compete with the best programs.

And other than Laxachussets and maybe LI Express this year, no NE team can beat the best programs in PA, MD, TX, CO and CA anyway.

Untrue. S2S will be just fine with their ridiculous additions in off season!!! Just watch.

We did just watch ....and the results were not good . Can only beat mediocre teams just like every year . A lot of talkers at s2s both players and parents but unfortunately that doesn't convert to anything special on the field

No you are an insta gratification baby. He/She must be a know-it-all millennial. Go figure!

Great post Lax Truths!

Unsanctioned club tournaments don't need to follow any USA Lacrosse age recommended guidelines. If the NLFs, Adrenalines, NALs and other higher-level tournaments want to follow age verification, those tournaments will quickly become irrelevant for the top programs around the country that accept reclasses. These programs will seek to play in non-age verified tournaments (Naptown will never change) and a new set of power tournaments will emerge. It starts at the top and the top of the food chain is the NCAA. The NCAA will need put in say a 19-year-old max freshman enrollment age for all sports and then let the reclassing take place in college. Similar to taking a red shirt year which many freshmen already do. Until that day comes, the top 2027s and younger age group players will be playing with reclasses going forward whether you like it or not.

There’s nothing you can do to stop it so don’t try.
Holdback Dad has spoken!

#realstudsdontreclass

Just stop calling it 2027s already

OR more likely many tournaments will thrive with age verification. Parents and kids will love it. The reclass kids can have their own tournaments.

These boys are going into high school. Who cares about holdbacks anymore?

NLF will be interesting. Last year was " on grade " . I wonder is this season it will be " on age". There will be some very unhappy campers if that's the case . Holdbacks/reclasses back with the teams they weren't playing on for that tournament is they go age based

detest to keep asking the question but it’s almost March. Has the NLF said anything about the decision on “age” that was supposed to be out by end of January? I don’t think they have which means this is not getting resolved anytime soon.

I’d think all the NLF clubs would have to agree. No way Laxachusetts agrees to on age anything.

Still in junior high hold back dad

It’s not going to happen.

Only team that really wants it is 91LI and maybe LI Express. No other NLF teams and associate members are interested in on age. Only compromise you may see is an 18-24 month window, eliminating the double holdback/reclass.

LI Express has 6 holdback/reclass on their 2027 team ....I don't think they want either lol

Not sure why people are spending so much time on this. It was never going to happen, especially at the high school level. If 91LI wants it so badly, they should start their own tournament. I’m not sure who’d be in it, but they could try.

Well.....91 successed last season when they forced NLF to be garage based . We shall see

If you don’t know why then you are either a holdback Dad, not too bright or both.

I’m not a holdback dad and you’re the one not too bright. They’re going into high school so they’re going to play against older kids. Get used to it.

Everyone acts like there’s no JV team in High School. Yes kids will play 2 of their 4 years against kids a year older than them in High School. Against a holdback they are playing a kid 2 years older. The holdback player never plays anyone older than him throughout all 4 years. You’re ok with cheating and that’s fine. Good luck teaching your kid morals when you have none yourself. You can’t reason with people that believe the ends always justify the means.

This post caught my eye. My son is an undersized on age 2024. Always been very undersized and still is today. His first few years of lacrosse, I played him up a year. Then brought him down to on age where he’s been ever since. Never ever considered holding him back. My moral compass simply would not allow it. And I’m appalled at people that do it. But there were huge benefits that I learned from the experience. I raised a hard nosed competitor, willing and eager to compete to be his best. And in fact the best. No quitting. No going the warm and fuzzy way of going the easiest possible route. No daddy buying him playing time against younger, weaker, smaller and slower opponents. My boy set his goals early on and EARNED what he got through a relentless work ethic and unwavering determination. This work ethic carried over to the classroom.

How did it turn out?? He soared past every single holdback as an undersized on age player throughout his youth career and was rewarded during college recruiting as a prized recruit. He committed to his dream school shortly after 9/1, which is both an elite level institution and lacrosse program. And maybe best of all, he got a deal where I won’t be paying a dime for college (and zero loans).

I have realized in so many ways that not holding him back gave my son life lessons that will serve him the rest of his life. Work ethic. Determination. Goal setting and achievement. Over all odds. Powerful life lessons to be sure. Kid simply put is a big time winner, which is in large part due to not holding him back. Holdback parents think they are helping their children by holding them back. Giving their kids an unfair advantage. However, in the big picture, they are hurting their children in sooooo many different ways.

All you parents of on age athletes. Stay the course knowing you are not only doing “the right thing” but also what is truely in your sons best interest.

No he wasn't and no he isn't. Put your name on it if this is the shining example.

you sound like a sideline laxer Dad. Glad I do not have to be around you in real life.

Fella, my sons best interest is to put him in the best situation possible. No morals required and no worries about judgement. Lacrosse is paying his way so judge away. If he took your kids spot too bad! We "cheated" with the help of all his teachers and coaches. Woo hoo! #reclassingbestdecisionever

#realstufsdontreclass

Feel sorry for you, Mr Eagle Scout.

Amen!!!!

You really have to laugh at anything that [Censored] and the winkoffs put out for boys ...just saw an " invite only " list of players for all long island games with kids that were literally cut from certain clubs because they were 7th on the attack depth chart but somehow are " top players " of long island ? Hahaha ....can even make this stuff up . Saw another kid as a roo ssdm who should be on a B team thaya how and he is . Winks , please stick to girls lacrosse, you're embarrassing yourselves. Even worse are the parents paying these fools to be part of a pretend all star team . What a joke

Agreed ....can the winkoffs stay out of boys lacrosse that they know nothing about ? Let me hear which "tournaments" they went to in order to " evaluate " the " selections " made for their All LI games ....seriously . There are kids that were " invited " that got cut off if 3 travel teams and some are B team players yet they were evaluated by the winkoffs who by the way dont go to any boy tournaments and they hand select the All LI team ? Hahahaha.....anyone who knows the 2027 class will look at the selections and know that there are kids on there that don't even play on their respective clubs . Sham

Agree with the 2024 poster the best players are still playing up all the way to college.All my sons played up the whole way.Coaches are not dopes.

Winkoff should just be straight w people..sign up for their box leagues, college recruiting events, etc. and they will declare you a "Wave 1" top player in Long Island. One of the best scams/money grabs in the game!!

The girls side they have flg players from teams that are B teams ranked 80 plus. The girls side is just as ridiculous.

What is the long island lacrosse showcase with tryouts etc in Nassau and Suffolk? Useless money grab? . Not bad?

Everything the winkoffs touch turns to [Censored] . Give it up already . Your lists are ridiculous and everyone knows it . You can't fool people when they know all of the players for each respective year .There are too players not in their lists and horrible players making it because they know the winkoffs or a coach that knows the winkoffs . They claim to go to tournaments to evaluate players but no one has seen them anywhere near a boys tournament. Apparently people have made the list with an email or even a posted comment about themselves. It's ridiculous all around .

It will only benefit to sport to get everyone on the same age. The club and college game will not suffer and by keeping everything age based, it will only serve to draw more players into the sport. The sport would benefit from having a solid "middle class" as opposed to the very top heavy with everyone else being also-rans at the club and college level which is limiting the growth of the sport

Worth trying out for Nike National team even though still a year young? Older son played and got his early commit from this event.

Go check out the NLF Instagram announcement today . Beginning next year ...NLF and USA Lacrosse will implement "age based competition". Done deal . [Censored] for all of the reclasses that were sold a bag of goods by their directors. Have fun playing with your own age again

No tryouts for LI, invitation only

2029 down. Not this age group.

Same for most regions other than NJ, South, West. Nice to see, avoids the money grab tryout. 155 college coaches for the 24s last summer. Best national talent.Wish they did it for middle school years.

To be clear. The issue isn’t about going against a kid that is older and risk of getting hurt. The issue is that this same reclass or double holdback kid is taking a spot in that persons recruiting class. This is not fair. Let’s say Hopkins only is looking for 3 defenders in their class. Chances are they will pick the kids that are 12-24 mos older. While there are exceptions I don’t care what you say but those kids are stronger, taller and arguable faster. Just more athletic. Not to say arguably may have better IQ from an extra year or two of playing. The issue is magnified more when you look at how little spots are filled for each grade by position.

There is a problem when you play in a recruiting event too. Last year juniors open published birth dates. Normal grade for most part was 2006 birth year, easily 65-75% were 2005s with a bunch of 2004s on top of that which was disgusting.

What does this have to do with 2027? The new rules are for 28s down.

It's been said once before and it's worth repeating....reclassing is WEAK. All it shiws is that the kids couldn't get on the field and compete with his own age group so decides to reclass with the hopes of standing out with a group of kids a year younger . Weak and pathetic any way you slice it . I don't care about the size difference or any of that stuff ....bottom line is it's weak and sad and you're not fooling anyone because everyone knows who you are .

Well get used to it because it’s not going anywhere. At least for this age group.

It's still weak ,pathetic and sleazy . And yes we all have gotten used to the weak and sleazy already . It's actually pretty funny actually , these same parents walong around saying their kids a student are the parents who reclasses their kid. Amazing

Only guys who golf all the time and cheat on their wife and kids are above.

Sounds like those guys are having a great time while you're busy reclassing your kid

This didn’t age well.

Did you read the article genius? Doesn’t affect this age group at all. Or are you one of those dopes posting this on every age group in this forum? I’m all for the age verification for U14 but who cares once they reach HS.
And who gives a hoot about the NLF tournaments anymore anyway? They call it the national championship but how can they when these NLF teams have loopholes to keep their toughest competition from entering these tournaments? Spare me the business reasoning, it’s complete cowardice.

What do you mean. It doesn’t impact this age

How s
How so? I thought the rules only applied for 29s down.

What do you mean it didn’t age well. It doesn’t apply to this age group.

#realstudsdontreclass...... reclassing is for the weak

Seems like you care and it is driving you fool. Good luck in life.

LOL, which one of the 6 does your son play for? Maybe he plays for Leading Edge which blocks BBL? Or Crabs which blocks Hawks? Or 91 LI that blocks Shore2Shore?

Well seen as they are aging out of the NAL, the NLF becomes the premier tournament of the summer for these guys. Either that or Naptown.

Sadly naptown went down tubes years ago now only NAL andNLF TO BE SEEN.

Which team will have the most reclasses this weekend at NLF?

#adultsdon’tcalllittleboysstuds

You won’t understand what I am about to say, but your gene pool is just too dense to ever secure a top D1 roster spot. You could hold back your kid three years and it wouldn’t make a difference. Best advice I could give you, to better mankind, is for you to stop reproducing. Believe me, you can trust me on this one.

Looks like 91 once again gave Machine a relatively easy schedule in pool play at NLF - Texas Nationals, Laxachusetts YELLOW, and Leading Edge. Meanwhile, Texas Nationals have to play Machine, Laxachusetts Black and Kings…dang.

Looks like there should be some good matchups tomorrow.

Machine are not what they used to be but probably still the frontrunner. Legacy still plays AA ? That's going to end poorly for them but the carrott dangling for parents wil still continue. Joke

They are better
And at tourneys like NLF where 4+ teams make bracket stop whining about schedules. Day 2 u have to beat the good teams there’s no faking it

Ouch ....10-1? Machine beats express. I guess they have to find more reclasses ? Or is daddy ball not working ? Embarrassing

Machine should flip into the the 27 Black division at NAL and run it back against Leading Edge and Texas. Those were good games this weekend. Well played all around.

NOBODY CARES ABOUT MACHINE. Go back to work.

Machine is the team to beat. And it will only get better. Hear the best kids in the grade are coming on.

Anyone know why Platinum Cup allowed the Canadian team to play down 1 year? The claim from their parents was 8th grade in Canada is 2008 birth year but that's not true, it's 2009. This same club was kicked out of Naptown last year for bringing a bunch of 26's to the tournament. I wouldn't even know how to protest but it was ridiculous.

Their 2009 birth year team played as a 2027 at Summer Exposure this weekend so you would think their 2008s would play as a 2026.

Crickets on here with Machine undefeated....again!

Does Rage still play?

Yes, they played the men from Canada and were beaten in the playoffs. It was a physical mismatch playing agaisnt a roster of mostly 26's.

What was excuses for other games they played? I thought they looked like a decent team . Destroyed sidewinders then lost to nationals ? And tied Denver elite? Sidewinders beat Denver elite on Sunday and they are terrible!

quote=Anonymous]

What was excuses for other games they played? I thought they looked like a decent team . Destroyed sidewinders then lost to nationals ? And tied Denver elite? Sidewinders beat Denver elite on Sunday and they are terrible![/quote]

Don't know. Don't care. more interested in why a tourney would allow such blatant cheating. I watched Evolve played a good MD team in the final and they were bigger at every kid on the entire roster down the line. And that's a MD team I'm talking about.

Machine does look good. Who did they pick up since the WSYL tournament last summer?

Don't know. Don't care. more interested in why a tourney would allow such blatant cheating. I watched Evolve played a good MD team in the final and they were bigger at every kid on the entire roster down the line. And that's a MD team I'm talking about.[/quote]

"Blatant cheating" is a little harsh. Grouping kids by birth year makes it difficult to align with graduating year divisions so you can either play older kids and get crushed like the 2009 team did or you can play younger kids like the 2008 team did. That 2008 team would have gotten smoked in the 2026 division. The team and organizers probably looked at the level of talent in the 2027 division and figured that'd be the best match - and it probably was. LI Rage and Next Level both played them tight.

"Blatant cheating" is a little harsh. Grouping kids by birth year makes it difficult to align with graduating year divisions so you can either play older kids and get crushed like the 2009 team did or you can play younger kids like the 2008 team did. That 2008 team would have gotten smoked in the 2026 division. The team and organizers probably looked at the level of talent in the 2027 division and figured that'd be the best match - and it probably was. LI Rage and Next Level both played them tight.[/quote]

Would agree but majority of the team was rising 10th graders, not 9th. It was a class based tournament and evolve’s average age was much older. I guess we know you are from Canada and not NY.

I didn't use "eh" once and I don't play hockey. Just offering a theory as to why they played in that group. Their director probably argued that all the MD teams have a bunch of kids that should be rising 10th graders. Next Level or LI Rage families should be proud their kids did well against them and not so worried about missing out on a $2 medal.

Funny, but not only are you a holdback apologist, but also think directors should use the "eye test" or take coaches opinions instead of using age or class divisions. btw, Evolve would've gotten smoked in the division they should have played, the 26's. Rage easily beats them at a comparable class level.

Platinum Cup rules has age-cutoff of January 1 so seems like Evolve was placed properly.

Sorry hoser. Evolve was playing with mostly rising 10th graders. No mention of a January 1 cutoff. This is why The Circuit was such a big success. Age and class verification.

DIVISIONS – BOYS:
* 2024 (Grade 11)
* 2025 (Grade 10)
* 2026 (Grade 9)
* 2027 (Grade 8)
* 2028 (Grade 7)
* 2029 (Grade 6)
* 2030 (Grade 5)
OTHER INFO:
* This event is for Boys teams
* This is a AA event
* All players MUST register to participate
* All players MUST be members of USA Lacrosse
* Divisions are based on “grade completed” by Summer 2023
* The division that a team plays in is dictated by the oldest player on that team
* This event is open to any and all, limited only by age and number

Everytime Rage loses there are always complaints. [Censored] it up.

Click on "Tournament Rules" and you'll see the January 1 cutoff for each of the age groups. They may have added that just to include them.

Ugh oh. Lots of reclassers sweating this one out.

Tournament is already over dumb___

Hope everyone realizes that circuit only verifies online. Nobody verifies on the field.
Nothing stopping teams from putting whoever they want on the field come game time.

Tell me again Evolve didn’t bring 26’s to Platinum Cup. They got beat several times at a b level tourney by really bad clubs.

But they did verify and there were rules with limits and the clubs all agreed. The rosters did not change after January 1. It was a great effort and really well run. One look at the size of the players on the field told you it was different. It was also noticeably different looking at the rosters vs the same clubs rosters at different tournaments.

I disagree

The Circuit allows Nationals LC to play. Tells you all you need to know. They are the top organization when it comes to cheating with fluid rosters and older kids. If Nationals LC is present at a tournament, it is a second rate tournament with zero integrity or credibility.

They verify online. It’s meaningless! Nobody checks to see who is playing that day. I did not notice size being any different. Until there is a way to verify roster on field before game it’s all smoke and mirrors. Sorry to burst your bubble.

Saw the U.S. Club Lax rankings this am. Am not a Machine parent, but don’t know how they can only be at #5 after the run they’ve had at NAL and Millon. Not all wins were by a ton of points, but they have taken down some big names and are clearly the best team team in 2027 right now. No one else even has an argument.

oh, ok Massapequa Machine Dad. We get it... you're not a Machine parent (wink wink).

I think you answered your own question. I’m assuming because they win so many games by one point. I personally think that’s great coaching.

Ok bearded chaos

Madlax caught cheating again at Naptown. At least 1 2026 was playing down in the 2027 division under the old "reclassing this fall" defense. Madlax claimed they thought it was okay and because there was no age or class verification in place, The player didn't exactly hide it as he was wearing his Deerfield helmet. Hogan didn't do anything except tell them the high schooler couldn't play the next day.

Madlax caught cheating again at Naptown. At least 1 2026 was playing down in the 2027 division under the old "reclassing this fall" defense. Madlax claimed they thought it was okay and because there was no age or class verification in place, The player didn't exactly hide it as he was wearing his Deerfield helmet. Hogan didn't do anything except tell them the high schooler couldn't play the next day.
Get your eyes checked.

Whatever
Whatever. One look at True National's team tells you all you need to know. None of these national or regional teams care about the class divisions. I would guess they are each carrying 5-7 players in the 2026 class. This is the worst tournament with the worst amount of cheating I've seen in a long time. On top of that, it might be the worst officiated both on the field and at the box.

A lot of mommy and daddy dreams bout to be crushed

If the kid will be a freshman next year, then he’s a 2027. I don’t like the reclass thing, but everyone has them and it’s just a fact of life in 2028 and older.

Not true. You become a 2027 when you attend school as a 2027. There's a reason why NLF is changing the rules. It's become so rampant as to make the sport a laughing stock.

Go to Tourney Machine for Naptown, select Documents and the first one is Player Eligibility and the first rule is: "All players must compete in the division with the class they were in during the 2022-2023 Academic year." If the kid was in 9th grade last year it is 100% cheating.

How was the One Percent (Team 91) Showcase?

There is tons from LI Express and all the other great clubs. Great event. Best one so far.

Awful....a lot of B team players there . Very sloppy play. Definitely not " the best of the best " .

Should rename it to 91's Coaches Kids ShowCase ....

They are the best in the country.

Exactly right . Complete waste of time and blatantly obvious who they " take care of " at this nothing " one percent " showcase . Never again

Hit the wall

Naptown is the premier recruiting event over the summer for high school. Over 400 colleges and universities recruit at this event over three days including numerous elite prep and private schools that recruit the youth age groups. More than NLF and NAL combined. 27s had #1, #2, #3, #4 ranked teams in country playing in this event this week. No other tournament in country can boast this. NLF will lose all reclass youth players going forward if they go to age verification. NLF will become like every other upper-level tournament for youth ages with this move. Nothing special about NLF teams if they need to play without all of the best players. Naptown will remain place for all on-age and reclass competition.

You want to truly clean up the reclass system, have the NCAA put a maximum age enrollment limit for incoming freshman. If freshman need a red shirt year to gain a physical advantage, which many do, they can take it freshman year.

Correction: The 27's, playing with a solid core of 26's, had #1, #2, #3, #4 ranked teams. When you think of the tournament in that light, you realize it wasn't that great. Not only were there many, many 26's playing as 27's, all but a handful are not reclassing or holding back this upcoming year because they are already in high school.

I also find it comincal high schools are out there trolling the 27's to consider their schools. It's late June. Are they really going to grease the kids so some kid can get into their school this fall? Or is the next step to tell them to begin the admission process in the fall towards a transfer and holdback in Fall of '24? I guess that's why this sport holds the position it does.

Tell that to all of the B team players you had there . Funny how clubs have kids that aren't good enough to make their A team sign up for a " best of the best showcase '. Comical

Why do you care?

Why do you post st***d things? You must have been a '26 playing in the '27 division.

Why do you post st***d things? You must have been a '26 playing in the '27 division.

Congratulations on repeating 9th grade.

We’re almost done with this silly holdback conversation. My son isn’t a holdback but he’s certainly gotten better and is more prepared for high school as a result of playing against them. Thanks holdbacks!

Only thing tgat will stop 1-2 year holdbacks playing will be lawsuits to hold organizers an uslax associations responsible. Sounds nuts but they dont have to win the lawsuir but you get a kid laid out with a gead injury etc to the wrong family and the suits will begin flying. Sure they will never win but that will be all it takes for change...legal fees time, headaches and they will change

The high school coaches are recruiting for '24 not '23. Prep schools don't care if you are a rising 8th grader or PG candidate, they look for future players, especially if you can afford to pay full or partial tuition. Private day or boarding school programs will only get stronger with US Lacrosse pushing for age verification.

Tournament directors need to adopt age-verification if it's going to work. US Lacrosse is not a governing body and cannot enforce age-verification. US Lacrosse offers insurance coverage to member programs that have 100% of its players and coaches with US Lacrosse membership #s. I would think tournament directors carry US Lacrosse insurance for their tournaments as well. Maybe you can withhold insurance coverage as a small deterrent to reclass eligible programs and tournament directors, but those programs/tournament directors will just get their insurance from other carriers.

Do you know how many reclass players participated between the top 4 teams at Naptown? Guessing not as many as you think. It will be interesting to see if this group of '27 national teams continue to dominate in the rankings in high school. Usually, the national teams splinter and the stronger local and regional teams are the standouts. There is a strong movement with national teams now at the youth level.

Let the reclass argument go and enjoy high school club lacrosse. If your kid plays for a legit program, reclasses are inevitable.

It’s about obvious and current 26’s playing in the class below them. I would venture 6-8 per team. Mad Dog played a tourney literally the weekend before Naptown and showed up the next day with 15 new players. Every player was bigger and faster. You don’t travel to 2 tournaments playing 5 days in a row and have 2 rosters. 3d Georgia played in the same 2 tournaments and had the same roster for both.

This won’t happen in high school because now the players are easily identifiable.

What's the difference....express also has 6 reclasses. I guess they all do it so no point in singling one out .

Just keep signing those waivers! So concerned about your kids safety but you put him out in the field anyway. Seems like you really do t care about his safety at all!

Mad Dog National (West) didn't play the weekend before and hadn't played since NAL in early June. Colorado Kings played Great 8 the weekend before which features a number of Mad Dog players. Guessing most of the top national kids played Crab Feast or Great 8 and rolled right into Naptown. 3D Georgia is a great program and guessing they ran into deeper national teams at Naptown. Tired maybe, outmatched most likely.

Mad Dog West played in Great 8. Then brought in a mix of 26’s and kings for Naptown.

Congratulations on repeating 9th grade.

At the First in Class clinic, a number (more than 3) of 26’s were caught trying to play down as 27’s. Because it was a showcase and not a tournament, they were removed and assigned to the 26 group. This caused drills and teams to be disrupted for the organizers and participants.

Right....and express carries 6 2026 kids on their roster to every practice and tournament. So what's your point ?

You just made it for him. Congratulations on you son repeating 9th grade.

. If holdbacks are dominating your kid he has no future in lacrosse.

Sorry. He’s not a holdback, but he is getting ready for high school where he will most certainly play against kids older than him. Perhaps you should start concentrating on that.

No, he won’t. Jv bound where the 10th graders are on age and the same age as the freshman. Sorry mommy

Mad Dog showed up to Naptown with a different roster because the team that played at Great 8 was their Mad Dog West Elite team (CA kids only) while their Mad Dog National West team that won Naptown was their National Black team (CA, CO, TX). Mad Dog National Black went by National West for some reason and the National Gold (B team) went by National East at Naptown. Hope that clears things up for you. Mad Dog National Black has been a top 5 team for a while now.

the Mad Dog 2027 team at Great 8 was the Mad Dog West Elite team of just California kids while the Mad Dog National West team at Naptown was Mad Dog National Black, comprised of players from Mad Dog West Elite (CA), Kings (CO) and Texas Nationals, along with a few others. So, no, not the same team at all. Naptown had numerous other national and regional teams, so different class of competition in that one.

You're the sorry one on here crying because your kid can't play against anyone older than him. My kids been playing up for years.

There weren’t any 2026s on Mad Dog at Naptown. Give me a break. They have a few reclasses, as does every elite team. Much less than most of the teams they play, including the BBL team they played in the final.

He does have a future. Just probably not at the D1 level. And that’s ok.