Please use this thread to discuss the 2022 Women's DI-III College Lacrosse Season


Previous Posts from the 2021-2022 College Season thread:

Who wins it this year? Does North repeat as Tew winner? What players emerge to lead teams vs last year? Who will lead the freshmen class(lots of redshirts last year)?


Comes down to who wins the duel between Hall and Moreno. Great goalie play making a difference in the tourney in a key spot has been the key to the last two champs (Megan Taylor and UMD in 2019 and Rachel Hall as discussed here).

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Who wins it this year? Does North repeat as Tew winner? What players emerge to lead teams vs last year? Who will lead the freshmen class(lots of redshirts last year)?

It is doubtful that BC Repeats as Champions.

I think UNC is the favorite, regardless of the rankings.

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Most Recent Post:

Would be shocked if both UNC and BC don't make the Final Four. Would also be shocked if either Cuse, UNC or BC don't win it all. It comes down to who gets hot down the stretch of the season. UNC as always will have the best talent but do they play unselfishly as a team and can they overcome their average coaching?

Syracuse will not be in the Final Four, North Carolina does not always have the most talent, UNC is very unselfish, UNC coaching will above average.

16 of the best programs over the past 10 years are in the preseason Top 20 and 16 of the best 22 programs over the past 5 years are in the preseason top 20. UConn, Jacksonville, Drexel and Rutgers are the only new comers or non traditional Top 20 programs that are getting some attention due to their performance in 2021. I do not believe any of those teams except Rutgers would have finish in the Top 20 last year if the Ivy's were in action and the BIG 10 played out of conference games.

Conclusion, the game has grown, the athleticism and skills have improved across the board but in the end the majority of the best players tend to go to the traditional Top 20 programs. Going forward I think Clemson will become competitive quickly, Michigan will continue to be a Top 20 program, Dartmouth will continue to push Princeton and Penn and will most likely be the third IVY to consistently be ranked and make the tournament. USC should be back in the Top 20. Drexel did look good last year but they lost their coach so who knows. Not sure what the deal is at Penn State they had a strong freshmen class last year but they lost some players. Has Duke stopped their slide? Will the Blue Devils be back to being a Top 10 Program? Does Maryland get back to the Final Four? Can BC repeat? Will first year Syracuse Coach guide The Orange to The Final Four? Will the Ivy's be rusty after being off for so long? Don't think Stony Brook will be Top 5 at the end of the Season.

Anyone have a dark horse they think will surprise?

Good luck to all.

NIKE/USA LACROSSE
DIVISION I WOMEN’S PRESEASON TOP 20

​​1. Boston College
2. North Carolina
3. Syracuse
4. Northwestern
5. Stony Brook
6. Maryland
7. Notre Dame
8. Duke
9. Loyola
10. Florida
11. Virginia
12. James Madison
13. Princeton
14. Stanford
15. Denver
16. Rutgers
17. Drexel
18. Jacksonville
19. UConn
20. Penn

Also considered (alphabetical order): Johns Hopkins, Louisville, Michigan, Penn State, Richmond, Temple



Below is cut and paste from previous thread ...

looking back over the past 10 seasons not a lot has changed. There have been a total of 40 programs that have finished the season ranked in the Top 20.

20 programs have finished the season ranked in the Top 20 five times or more over the past 10 seasons. They are:

10 - UNC
10 - Maryland
10 - Boston College
10 - Northwestern
10 - Florida
10 - Virginia
10 - Syracuse
10 - Princeton (actual 9, they did not compete in 2021 but no reason to believe they would not have been top 20)
10 - Penn (see Princeton above :-) )

9 - Stony Brook
9 - Notre Dame

8 - Loyola

7 - Penn State
7 - UMass

6 - Duke
6 - JMU
6 - Denver

5 - Stanford
5 - Dartmouth
5 - Hopkins

Several teams have finished 1 X and some others 2 or 3 times but none are consistently ranked.

Looking at just the past 5 seasons not much has changed...

36 programs have finished the season ranked in the Top 20 over the past 5 years.

22 of those programs have finished in the Top 20 more than once during that 5 years. They are:

5 - UNC
5 - Maryland
5 - Boston College
5 - Northwestern
5 - Florida
5 - Virginia
5 - Syracuse
5 - Princeton (see above)
5 - Penn ( see above)
5 - JMU
5 - Stony Brook

4 - Notre Dame
4 - Loyola
4 - Denver

3 - UMass
3 - Navy
3 - Colorado

3 - Dartmouth (see Penn and Princeton above)

2 - Stanford
2 - Michigan
2 - USC
2 - Duke

Penn State and Hopkins have fallen off a bit while Navy, Colorado, USC and Michigan appear to be on the rise.

In the first couple weekends we should know a lot about the old guard, and most importantly know if there will be some new challengers. SU v Stanford, NW v BC, UNC v JMU to name a few.

I also think Duke and Princeton are going to be much improved.

Who are the surprise players that need to step up for teams to win-we know North, Smith, Hall , Ortega, Masteroni, trenchard, Carney, Cooper, Hawyschuck, Scane, Sears, Donovan, Jenner, All these players have to play well we know even for team to have a chance.

Very well said. Beginning of season will say a lot about how teams stack up in 2022. The Big 3 of UNC, Cuse and BC have a clear edge based on performance last year and talent returning. But each also have a few key questions that have to be answered. All 3 great on the draw. Cuse is so talented on the offensive side of ball but how will playing philosophy change under Treanor and Kent. They also lost few key defenders in Simpkins and Defliese and have a new goalie. UNC absolutely loaded with talent all over the field but how well will ball move on offense with loss of Hoeg. They also lost 3 great defenders and added a few new middies in Aldave and Dirk's so chemistry might take a while to develop. Lots of alphas on offense at UNC - will they play "me ball" or will they gel especially in the big games. BC midlfield was a bit thin last year and they lost Court Weeks. They also lost Urbank who was one of best all-round attackers in the game. Do think their defense will be very good this year. Think teams like Florida, ND and SB take a step back this year. See Princeton, Duke, MD rounding out the Top 6 but will take time for them to prove themselves based on strength of schedule.

If last year taught us anything, it is that it’s a long season and you have to let it play out. Nobody would have predicted BC winning early in the season when they were blown out by UNC and Syracuse. I would love to see some non traditional programs make some noise but I think we will see many of the usual teams in the Top 10.

Northwestern will be in the mix.

As for the strength of schedule for Princeton, Duke and Maryland they all play relatively tough schedules. However, Duke does have a weak out of conference but obviously their ACC schedule is very difficult.

Here are there OOC schedules for Princeton, Duke and Maryland:

Princeton - Virginia, Temple, USC, San Diego State, Penn State, Loyola, Stony Brook, Maryland.

Maryland - St Josephs, Florida, Delaware, William & Mary, Villanova, JMU, Georgetown, Princeton.

Duke - Gardner Webb, Elon, William & Mary, High Point, Wofford, East Carolina, Penn, Davidson, Liberty.

Notre Dame has been guilty of having a weak out of conference schedule in recent years but I think this years OOC schedule is Okay.

Stony Brook has really improved their out of conference schedule over the years , 2022 might be the toughest OOC ever. Should be interesting to see how they do.

With the addition of Pitt and Clemson ACC teams will have fewer OCC games on their schedule in the future.

Stony Brook to join CAA

Monmouth as well

Where will JMU go? Will they stay inn the CAA for Lacrosse?

They have joined the Sunbelt Conference - along with Old Dominion

https://www.jmu.edu/news/2021/11/05-sunbelt-announcement.shtml

I do not believe The Sun Belt Conference has women’s lacrosse.

They will need to find a new lacrosse conference as the CAA has removed all JMU sports from theirconference. JMU womens lacrosse will play a CAA conference schedule this year but are not eligible for the CAA playoffs. The only way they get to NCAA's is through an at large bid

They do not. I believe JMU, ODU and CCU will be only SB schools with WLAX. Presumably JMU will join a different conference for WLAX and FH. Which one remains to be seen.

Maybe the AAC would be a good fit for JMU, not sure where else. The CAA has done this before with conference playoffs/championships when schools announce they are leaving the conference. It seems a bit petty to me, yet once again in college sports we see kids being punished for something they have no have no control over.

JMU lacrosse should be fine, traditionally they are strong enough to make the NCAA Tournament without the automatic bid as they are one of the best programs year in and year out.

Although I dislike the whole Pre-Season thing, I will say congratulations to all who are recognized. Tar Heels should be tough to beat again this year... going out on a limb here picking UNC to win it all. : -)

https://www.insidelacrosse.com/arti...-represented-led-by-nine-tar-heels/58797

Wow!!

North Carolina with 50% of the Top 10 players.... Goalie, Defender, 2 Midfielders and an Attacker... Obviously, they are the definite front runners again this year. Good luck to all teams.

https://www.insidelacrosse.com/slideshow/2022-womens-tewaaraton-top-10-watch-list/163?slide=0

JMU along with HPU have a lot more ability then most to get athletes through admissions.

What is the point/reason for your post? There are many programs that have the ability to get just about any athlete that they want through admissions? Why are you pointing to those two programs?

Whats going to happen to the AEC? Hartford left now SBU..

Preseason ILWomen - IWLCA Poll... Not much different than the other poll.

1 Boston College
2 North Carolina
3 Syracuse
4 Northwestern
5 Notre Dame
6 Stony Brook
7 Florida
8 Duke
9 Maryland
10 Loyola
11 Virginia
12 James Madison
13 Stanford
14 Denver
15 Princeton
16 Drexel
17 Rutgers
18 Jacksonville
19 Penn
20 Johns Hopkins
21 UConn
22 Temple
23 Michigan
24 UMass
25 Penn State


What teams not mentioned have a legit shot at being top 20 at the end of the season?

Dartmouth, USC, Colorado, Arizona State, Towson???

There are a lot of great early season OOC match ups should be fun to watch. Duke once again has weak OOC schedule.

Interested to see early season games.

Northwestern Vs BC
Maryland Vs UVA
Princeton Vs UVA
Syracuse Vs SBU
Florida Vs UNC
JMU Vs UNC

Good Luck to All

Gilbert wil lhave to step up for Northwestern with Scane out.

Stony Brook & JMU must win the majority of their non conference games or they risk missing the NCAA Tournament. Both play a tough non conference schedule so there is not a lot of wiggle room. This could be SBU’s toughest non conference schedule ever. Looks like 5-7 very tough games (UVA, Syracuse, Dartmouth, Florida, Northwestern, Hopkins, Princeton) as well as Hofstra, Brown and Arizona St which are all relatively competitive. If they lose to 5 of the first 7 named I don’t think they will make the tournament. As for JMU they have (UNC, VA tech, Penn State, Rutgers, UVA, Maryland) throw in UConn, Ohio State and Richmond which could be challenging for them. Again, if they lose to 5 of those teams who knows what will happen with the tournament. Keep in mind I’m talking about losing 5 games to top teams… if they lose 5 but knock off one or to of the powers i.e. UNC, Syracuse, Maryland, Northwestern, Princeton, UVA , Florida they should be fine.
It stinks for these teams to not have a chance to compete for a conference championship and automatic bid but it makes their non conference games more interesting and important.
Good Luck,

Stonybrook vs Virginia is just a scrimmage.

Does anyone have any insight if the interim coach at Richmond will become the permanent coach?

Still a challenging out of conference slate. If they do not win at least 2 of 4 vs Syracuse, Florida, Northwestern and Princeton They will have to win the rest of their games or they will be on the bubble unless Hopkins and Dartmouth are Top 20 at the end of the season and they have wins over them as well. I think for the first time Stony Brook has their work cut out for them because they will not get the AQ. I think if they go 0-4 vs SU, FL, NU and Princeton they will have a tough time getting an at large bid.

It does add more pressure with OOC games for both teams. JMU is already somewhat used to it since the CAA is more competitive than AE, and the AQ is not always a sure thing for them. I just hope SB and JMU are not held to a higher standard than ACC/Big Ten teams that also don’t have wins against UNC, NU and SU. Quality wins against other tournament teams - yes - but a top 5 or even top 10 win should not be necessary. For example, Maryland only has two top 10 teams on their schedule since they are not playing UNC and SU this year, and I’m not sure one of them (FL) will stay top 10. Duke will not beat the top ACC teams like usual yet still get in with a high seeding in spite of a really weak OOC schedule.

Yup!

Who won? Score?

So fun to see all the LI players out there from both teams The teams ran a practice together before playing which I’ve never seen before and it was neat to see the different drills for the kids . Fun day SB won by four

What are you talking about? Why would they be held to a higher standard? We don’t know what teams will have played top 10 teams until the end of the year, so you have no Idea how many Top 10 teams MD will have faced. Duke has only made the tournament 2 times in the past 6 seasons and they were not seeded in either appearance. ACC and Big 10 teams in most cases have difficult in an out of conference games so they can get quality wins both in and out of conference. If the traditional power team on SBU’s schedule Syracuse, Florida, Princeton and Northwestern finish in the Top 10 as they have several times in recent years Stony Brook will have to win at least two of those games and probably Win the rest of their games as well. Unless another team on their schedule is ranked high most wins wins will not count for much. Quality wins are always a major consideration for at large bids so unless there are some surprises in the rankings at the end of the regular season Stony Brook will not have a lot of room for error.

So fun to see all the LI players out there from both teams The teams ran a practice together before playing which I’ve never seen before and it was neat to see the different drills for the kids . Fun day SB won by four

Got to watch the scrimmage , the game seemed pretty much even I believe 9-8 then a lot of new players were put in and SBU seemed to pull ahead . If they have played during the season I would say it easily could go either way although I know both teams were missing at least 1 key player each . I think SBU will struggle on offense and UVA on defense . Looking at both teams schedules not getting to play in their conference tournament will make SBU season interesting but I think they will lose 3 games this year and will make the tournament . UVA plays what looks to be possibly the hardest schedule I have seen of any team and if they can manage to go over 500 I think they get in , 500 or under and not in .

It will all depend on where Syracuse, Florida, Princeton, Northwestern, Dartmouth and Hopkins finish the regular season and how Stony Brook does against those teams (other teams matter as well but those are the teams most likely to be Top 10 - 20 at the end of the season). Although Stony Brook usually has a very good record their record vs teams that finish in the Top 10 is not very impressive. Should be an interesting season.

Was also there it was very entertaining and for an early season contest I thought both teams sticks looked very good with very few turnovers These teams will all change. Was interesting that Virginia only had 8 or 9 subs very small bench. Tbh was impressed with both teams and think both will have great seasons. So much speed for both teams. My eye test saw Virginia little more individual based and transition (scored one fabulous one ) on offense while SB was more ball movement with many coming off off feeds. (SB also had two gorgeous BehInd the Back goals) was a fun day tho daughter and friends loved the action. 1st quarter 4-2 SB. 9-8 uva at half 13-10 SB after 3 and 15-11 end score SB. Can’t wait for the weekend and actual games

Duke was a 7 seed last year. Their only wins against tournament teams were High Point and UVA. SBU was an 8 seed. Lost to UNC and SU just like Duke did, beat two tourney teams, Hofstra and Towson. Held to a higher standard it appears since Duke was seeded ahead.

Agree SBU does not have a lot of wiggle room but I think they can get an at large bid with a win over NU, SU, FLA or Princeton, assuming those teams stay top 15 and SBU wins all their other games. Maybe JHU will be a challenge. Wonder if SBU tries to add another quality OOC opponent.

---- "Duke was a 7 seed last year. Their only wins against tournament teams were High Point and UVA. SBU was an 8 seed. Lost to UNC and SU just like Duke did, beat two tourney teams, Hofstra and Towson. Held to a higher standard it appears since Duke was seeded ahead.

Agree SBU does not have a lot of wiggle room but I think they can get an at large bid with a win over NU, SU, FLA or Princeton, assuming those teams stay top 15 and SBU wins all their other games. Maybe JHU will be a challenge. Wonder if SBU tries to add another quality OOC opponent." --------

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Let's try this again.... Below are some actual facts...

Duke was in fact seeded 7th last year, it was Dukes first NCAA appearance since 2016 so it's not as though they get an at large bid to the Tournament with a suspect record.

Duke played 9 games vs teams that were ranked in the Top 20 at the end of the regular season.They were 1 - 8 vs Top 20 teams with their lone quality win coming against Virginia.

Stony Brook played 2 games vs teams that were ranked in the Top 20 at the end of the regular season. They were 0 - 2 vs Top 20 Teams with 0 quality wins.

Stony Brook was not held to a higher standard considering the fact that they had no quality wins (wins vs Top 20 teams) and they played a weak schedule compared to Duke.

It would appear that Stony Brook may actually be held to a lower standard due to the fact that it is unusual for a team with no quality wins and a relatively weak schedule to receive a seed.

Stony Brook has been overrated and overhyped for many years garnering high rankings due to lopsided W L record vs weak competition.

Based on their pre-tournament Rankings, Stony Brook has under performed each year in the NCAA Tournament.

When you look at how Stony Brook has performed Vs Top 10 - 20 Teams, Stony Brook is pedestrian.

Since 2012, Stony Brook is 5 - 21 vs Top 10 Teams (end of season ranking)

Since 2012, Stony Brook is 22 - 25 vs Top 20 Teams (end of season ranking)

Stony Brook always seems to be given the benefit of the doubt (or held to a lower standard) in the preseason polls as well so when they lose one of their OCC games they do not fall too far in the polls.

Based on Stony Brook's actual performance vs competitive teams I'm guessing they would have to schedule OOC teams the same way Duke does in order to insure a .500 record and a chance at an at large bid to the Tournament if they were in the ACC or Big 10.

Stony Brook is very young this year, talented but very young. I like that Spallina never uses that as a crutch and speaks about goals of Final 4 etc. But they will be young and have their work cut out for them. Think they will lose 2/3 games but be in the mix for a 7 or 8 I have seen many other coaches (Florida this year) use the youth as an excuse. Not having the Auto Bid will be interesting but looking at SB schedule they have done a good job with OOC games and teams that will boost RPI obviously wins are best but just playing those games plus Hartford not playing this year will keep that RPI high. You win a few of those and they will maintain a high seed.

Regardless I think a bigger story is JMU and SB being At Large teams will knock others out.

Division I Women’s Lacrosse

Rank Institution Points (FPV) Last Poll
1 Boston College (0 - 0) 648 (24) 1
2 North Carolina (0 - 0) 620 (2) 3
3 Syracuse (0 - 0) 602 2
4 Northwestern (0 - 0) 569 4
5 Notre Dame (0 - 0) 519 6
6 Stony Brook (0 - 0) 509 5
7 Florida (0 - 0) 450 7
8 Duke (0 - 0) 441 8
9 Maryland (0 - 0) 440 10
10 Loyola (0 - 0) 434 9
11 Virginia (0 - 0) 371 11
12 James Madison (0 - 0) 341 12
13 Stanford (0 - 0) 314 16
14 Denver (0 - 0) 285 13
15 Princeton (0 - 0) 265 NR
16 Drexel (0 - 0) 221 15
17 Rutgers (0 - 0) 210 14
18 Jacksonville (0 - 0) 183 18
19 Penn (0 - 0) 163 NR
20 Johns Hopkins (0 - 0) 136 17
21 UConn (0 - 0) 107 21
22 Temple (0 - 0) 88 19
23 Michigan (0 - 0) 83 NR
24 UMass (0 - 0) 78 NR
25 Penn State (0 - 0) 63 T-23

Division II Women’s Lacrosse

Rank Institution Points (FPV) Last Poll
1 Lindenwood (0 - 0) 524 (20) 1
2 UIndy (0 - 0) 496 (1) 3
3 Queens (0 - 0) 478 2
4 Le Moyne (0 - 0) 464 5
5 East Stroudsburg (0 - 0) 404 4
6 West Chester (0 - 0) 403 6
7 Florida Southern (0 - 0) 397 8
8 Rollins (0 - 0) 362 10
9 Regis (CO) (0 - 0) 328 9
10 Roberts Wesleyan (0 - 0) 317 7
11 Adelphi (0 - 0) 306 14
11 Tampa (0 - 0) 306 T-12
13 Limestone (0 - 0) 289 11
14 Grand Valley State (0 - 0) 243 17
15 Mercy (0 - 0) 237 16
16 Bentley (0 - 0) 231 T-12
17 Mount Olive (0 - 0) 192 15
18 Seton Hill (0 - 0) 169 20
19 Pace (0 - 0) 162 19
20 Assumption (0 - 0) 118 18
21 Saint Anselm (0 - 0) 102 22
22 New Haven (0 - 0) 95 21
23 Saint Leo (0 - 0) 63 23
24 Colorado Mesa (0 - 0) 48 24
25 Davenport (0 - 0) 31 25

Division III Women’s Lacrosse

Rank Institution Points (FPV) Last Poll
1 Salisbury (0 - 0) 547 (19) 4
2 Tufts (0 - 0) 529 (3) 3
3 St. John Fisher (0 - 0) 475 9
4 Ithaca (0 - 0) 432 11
5 Washington & Lee (0 - 0) 401 2
6 William Smith (0 - 0) 385 16
7 Franklin & Marshall (0 - 0) 378 1
8 Messiah (0 - 0) 374 10
9 Gettysburg (0 - 0) 363 5
10 TCNJ (0 - 0) 359 14
11 Middlebury (0 - 0) 352 NR
12 Denison (0 - 0) 279 8
13 Cortland (0 - 0) 276 13
14 Catholic (DC) (0 - 0) 250 6
15 Colby (0 - 0) 236 7
16 Brockport (0 - 0) 223 17
17 Wesleyan (CT) (0 - 0) 188 12
18 York (0 - 0) 156 15
19 Amherst (0 - 0) 138 NR
20 Trinity (0 - 0) 101 20
21 Bowdoin (0 - 0) 99 NR
22 Geneseo (0 - 0) 92 18
23 Hamilton (0 - 0) 78 19
24 Christopher Newport (0 - 0) 62 21
25 Chicago (0 - 0) 51 21

It will come down to RPI, quality wins and strength of schedule etc… as The NCAA defines them…. They have done some odd things in the past… especially on the Men’s side.

We will not know who falls where until the regular season ends. Stony Brook has done a good job over the years at scheduling high caliber programs for their OOC games. JMU always plays challenging OOC schedule as well. As stated above , we will not know how it all shake out until the games are played but it looks like JMU has the tougher row to [ChillLaxin].

All SBU and JMU can do now is play who they have on the schedule.

The good news for SBU is the “projected” top four teams on their schedule have some challenges to deal with. Syracuse has a new coach and some injury issues. Florida lost a lot of mainstays to graduation. Princeton has been off for two years. NOrthwestern is without their strongest offensive player.

JMU and Stony Brook will now be competing with ACC, B1G, Ivy and any other conference that usually gets multiple Bids.

It should be interesting to say the least, every game will matter and it could very much come down to head to head. Syracuse, Florida, Princeton, Dartmouth and Hopkins are critical because of the importance of Head to Head outcomes when deciding who gets an at large bid.

Did some SB research because numbers seemed off ( not shocked ) was actually interesting to look back on box scores during Spallina’s tenure they are 36 -25 vs Top 20 opponents was interesting to look at results before he arrived they were terrible. Every season on their archive has the rank of teams on their schedule. Regardless so glad games start this week

The numbers are not off.

You looked at where the opponents were ranked when the games were played, rankings change throughout the season based on performance. The numbers in the previous post reflect Stony Brooks Record vs the opponents actual end of season "Final Ranking" which is the only ranking worth anything. Just because a team is Ranked #1 doesn't mean we crown them National Champions, they actually have to play the games and we see where they end up.

You can beat a team that was ranked 10th on March 1st but if that team is not ranked in the Top 20 at the end of the season you did not beat the number 10 team.

Since 2012, Stony Brook is 5 - 21 vs Top 10 Teams (end of season ranking).

Since 2012, Stony Brook is 22 - 25 vs Top 20 Teams (end of season ranking).


Just looked quickly at some of their schedules on line:

2021 - schedule has USC ranked 13. USC was not Ranked in the Top 20 in the Final Ranking.
2019 - schedule has Hopkins ranked 1. Hopkins was not Ranked in the Top 20 in the Final Ranking.
2018 - schedule has USC ranked 5. USC was not Ranked in the Top 20 in the Final Ranking.
2017 - schedule has Towson ranked 19. Towson was not Ranked in the Top 20 in the Final Ranking.

I'm sure there are several more examples in previous years.

Did you also count wins over UMBC ranked #4 and Albany ranked # 2 as they are listed on the schedule? (wouldn't be shocked)

Try to spin it any way you want but the numbers are accurate.

Did not use AE tourn ranks as ranked games so come on and also if you play a team and at the time of the game the team is ranked it’s beating a ranked a opponent on your in season resume . You also can spin it however you want. I understand what you are saying but the ncaa tournament doesn’t operate that way. Be interesting to see other teams in that 6-15 area ranking Good interesting conversation

The numbers are not off.

You looked at where the opponents were ranked when the games were played, rankings change throughout the season based on performance. The numbers in the previous post reflect Stony Brooks Record vs the opponents actual end of season "Final Ranking" which is the only ranking worth anything. Just because a team is Ranked #1 doesn't mean we crown them National Champions, they actually have to play the games and we see where they end up.

You can beat a team that was ranked 10th on March 1st but if that team is not ranked in the Top 20 at the end of the season you did not beat the number 10 team.

Since 2012, Stony Brook is 5 - 21 vs Top 10 Teams (end of season ranking).

Since 2012, Stony Brook is 22 - 25 vs Top 20 Teams (end of season ranking).


Just looked quickly at some of their schedules on line:

2021 - schedule has USC ranked 13. USC was not Ranked in the Top 20 in the Final Ranking.
2019 - schedule has Hopkins ranked 1. Hopkins was not Ranked in the Top 20 in the Final Ranking.
2018 - schedule has USC ranked 5. USC was not Ranked in the Top 20 in the Final Ranking.
2017 - schedule has Towson ranked 19. Towson was not Ranked in the Top 20 in the Final Ranking.

I'm sure there are several more examples in previous years.

Did you also count wins over UMBC ranked #4 and Albany ranked # 2 as they are listed on the schedule? (wouldn't be shocked)

Try to spin it any way you want but the numbers are accurate.[/

Isn’t East setauket close to SB

While I agree SBU is almost always overhyped and over ranked I have to say Spallina does more with these players that no other top 15 programs even looked at . They can beat anybody while having essentially not top recruits . The problem for Joe is it’s not a great college experience going to a commuter school and the best players have better options .

Why is it that every time Stony Brook is discussed people always diminish the players? Stony Brook has had many great players yet people on here always want to make it all about the coach. This has been the narrative for a long time now but it is not accurate. Stony Brook gets some great players, the propaganda simply is not true.

My post wasn’t meant to disparage players it was actually a compliment that was worded poorly. My point was their recruits are very often not “highly ranked “ out high school. They are excellent and in many cases turn out better than the “highly ranked “ kids out of Hs. My reference was based on past few years inside lacrosse rankings where SB had very few players. I’m certainly not spitballing I went by actual rankings

All the time they are discussions about high school players that either never pan out, or are the superstars they were expected to be. No one ever mentions the exponentially greater level of training, lifting, practice speed, film, and general level of “ professionalism” that goes along with college lacrosse! Kids from hotbed areas have had more training during ms and hs, yes, but those kids enter college with , in general, little what I call “spare capacity”. Soo maybe coaches like Spallina has a knack for spotting the girls who, maybe their parents didn’t throw down money for every single exposure opportunity, every chance to be set by IL contributors, for funding and grabbing the real diamonds in the rough. My guess is Amonte-Hiller has that same knack.
North, Scane, Gilbert, Hall and a few others all started relatively late (6th grade I think I read) never looked to see which of them had over of those storybook high school careers, but someone did their homework, chose not to after the low hanging fruit, and identified those with the biggest perceived room to grow at the college level. With the likes of IL and USAlax citing hs “superstars “ in the hotbeds, the real stars might be missed, and the soo called experts evaluations might more often than not be needed to be taken with a grain of salt.
Soo I think part of my point, kinda buried a little, is that how the girls do in college is every bit of if not more a reflection of how they adapted to the college level and intensity of training, not soo much what they speed up with on the first day of college practice

Too much gibberish to respond to, Spallina would love to get more highly ranked players but cannot simply because going to SBU which is essentially a commuter school is not regarded as good a college experience by many. Take the scrimmage that they just played in the last 2 years UVA has brought in 7 UA senior AA to 1 for SBU so yes Spallina does more with players that were not as highly recruited. It is not that he can see their future potential over other coaches but its more that those players did not have as many options so that is who he can recruit to go there. Spallina seems to have the ability to get these players to reach their potential while many other coaches dont. Maybe its the illegal amount of hours that his teams practice ,who knows.

All of the players that you mention were superstars in HS. Anyone who watched them play could tell they were exceptional. They certainly did not go unnoticed, they were not diamonds in the rough.

They were playing in non hotbed areas where it easy for great players to look great when the competition is not up to snuff and the coaching is not widely recognized and experienced in the toughest playing environments.
Which of them played in the UA senior game? Which of them were not coached or nominated for/won USALax AA ? Did they have the funds to go to every east coast showcase? They started VERY late relatively ( not sure when Gilbert started)
Did u actually see them play in the likes of mid Atlantic, UA, ect?

I once read or hear I can’t recall, that Amonte sought out what she deemed the most athletic girls she could find to build the early NU teams that eventually won it all, supporting my claim that it’s coaching and adaptive potential to the cogitate playing environment. Thus the results of the spallinas and hollers-they don’t rely on IL/USALax/UA lists

Agree, way to much gibberish...

To be clear, just because a player chooses to attend SBU does not mean that the player was not identified as strong players or recruited by other college programs. For many, cost of attendance is a major factor and for many LI kids SBU can be significantly more affordable than many other schools. Just like Maryland, I'm sure many of the Maryland kids would have loved to go to UNC, Virginia, Stanford, Florida, Penn State, USC, Penn, Princeton, Northwestern, Notre Dame etc... but at what cost?

This notion that the SBU players were not recognized by other programs is not true. Just about all of the high performing players for SBU in the past several years were very well known HS players. For many, it's about the $$$ and the kids happiness.

I seem to recall a post on here not long ago that pointed out that Stony Brook had more players the made the Long Island Underclass Under Armour team than any other college program. Players who earn a spot on the LI Under Armour Underclass teams are not diamond in the rough, they are very well known.

There has been a consistent narrative over the years that Pumps up JS as the best coach in college lacrosse (yes, he is an excellent coach). That narrative has also consistently downplayed the actual ability of the Stony Brook Players.

Stony Brook gets very good players.

All were HS AA's

North, Scane and Hall were all Senior Under Armour All-Americans and were recognized by Inside Lacrosse .

Not to lose the point of what I was saying as it pertains to the Spallina ect, is that picking local girls not on all the “ lists” and having great success is as much about the coaching, the players potential to rise up to the college game and seeing something in those players the list makers miss. One concussion from this is that the lists and how they’re made can always be improved with more effort

There is not a single college coach that relies on Inside Lacrosse, USA Lacrosse or Under Armour to identify the players that they recruit.

Did you ever think that people who actually know what they are looking at will identify many of the same players as being a high caliber player with a high level of potential?

There is a reason that the best programs tend to bring in the most players that are “recognized” by the likes of IL, USA lacrosse and UA.

The majority of players from Long Island do not want to stay on The Island, it doesn't matter if they are on the "lists" or not, most do not want to go to school on The Island. The players that do make the so called "lists" generally have many options that are more appealing than SBU for a variety of reasons (academic, lacrosse, social, overall experience etc...).

JS does not "pick local girls that are not on all the lists", if he could get the players that make the lists he would take them. He gets the players who are willing to stay on the Island many of which are excellent players.

How in the world do you know what players other Top 15 programs looked at? Most of the players that have excelled at Stony Brook were very well known Long Island players. Stony Brook does not have a national draw but they attract plenty of talented Long Island players. Some on here would have us believe that SBU brings in kids that can not throw and catch.

Joe knows and recognizes very good players. He is also keenly aware that many good players get overlooked and lost in the politics of LI travel lacrosse. That is his gain for being able to spot these talented players. Yes most of those players he picks up are not at the top of all the notIntelligent “lists and teams”. And many of them go to SBU and break it open. Half credit to Joe’s coaching, polishing them as players, and half discredit to the politics of travel lacrosse. Many of these players were very deserving their whole careers, just ended up on the short end. That is also the chip on the shoulder attitude that joe motivates the whole team with, and he is not wrong.

"Joe knows and recognizes very good players."

I guess other coaches do not know how to recognize very good players. Who are the good players that get overlooked? You make it seem like other coaches are not able to spot talented players. What exactly are you referring to by "all the notIntelligent lists and teams"? What exactly do they break open? So, it's Joe and the politics that are responsible for any success that a Stony Brook player has? The player is not responsible? What exactly were all of these players deserving of?

What exactly has Stony Brook accomplished? You make it sound as though the SBU coach takes players off the street with no experience and wins National Championships with them. We all know JS is a very good coach but the constant beating of the drum of how it's all him is becoming absurd. Just about all of his top players over the years were very well know HS/Club players. As another post pointed out that Stony Brook had more players that made the Long Island Under Armour Underclass Teams than any other college program. The constant belittling of the Stony Brook players is getting old.

Stony Brook is a very good program, JS is a very good coach and Stony Brook gets some very good players. Some of you sycophants must be delusional if you think that JS is the only coach that can identify talent. You act as though the schools that tend to bring in the so called highly touted players are not the best programs in the country. The proof is there for all to see the programs that consistently bring in those highly touted player are consistently the most competitive programs.

When you look their record vs Top 10 teams (5 - 21) during JS's time at Stony Brook it becomes very clear that they are often overrated.

Stony Brook is no different than any other program, they use the same formula, which is: Consistently Identify, recruit and land top tier players/athletes and you will have a very good college team.

No coach wins without talent. as a John Wooden is to have said "it's more about the Jimmy's and the Joe's than about the X's and the 0's"

Very tough to follow, what exactly is your point?

JS is an excellent coach. JS brings in some excellent players. Stony Brook is an excellent program. But this nonsense about JS having some special ability to see talent where others do not is a bit much. Way too much spin and propaganda surrounding the SBU program, not sure where it comes from, can’t tell if it emanates from Stony Brook or if it comes from disgruntled SBU parents who believe their kid was overlooked by UNC, BC, Northwestern, Syracuse etc…

Personally, I just don’t like the way SBU players are diminished by so called supporters of Stony Brook.

Maybe you are on to something. Stony Brook gets some very good players but obviously there are several teams that get better players.

That’s not a knock, it’s just reality. The more I read some of these posts and listen to some people it is apparent that some people have an agenda when it comes to the narrative with respect to Stony Brook. There is definitely an agenda at play.

I think the point here is a very good one. Basically, hotbed players are strong due to the abundance of good coaches and strong competition in the hotbeds. And, they are very developed players by the time they get to college. Players like North, Scane, Gilbert, Hall (from Texas, Michigan, Oregon & Texas) come from areas that have so much less access to that level of opportunity. Recruiting - Coaches are actively seeking those players because they hope they will have much more potential to grow. If you look at the Adrenaline All American 2023 watch list (best to the west), there are a good number of west coast players going to strong DI programs.

Look at the men's game. UVA's Lars Tiffany was quoted saying this exact thing about the west coast players and said that he seeks them out. There has already had a tewaarton winner from Oregon (and Charlotte North is from Texas).

Coaches are looking for those kids from outside the hotbed who can play to the level in high school club play, despite not having had as much access to all the east coast opportunities - they will have more potential for growth.

Coaches look for the best athletes / players that they can find. They could care less where the player is from. Just like when Coaches say that they like Multi Sport Athletes, they want "Athletes". It just so happens that the best athletes have the ability to excel at multiple sports. You will not see Lars or any other coach recruit a kid that plays three sports but sits on the bench in all three, nor will you see him take a kid from California just because he is a west coast kid.

I do not put much stock in what the coaches say, just go back and listen to the nonsense that they spewed about "early recruiting" after listing to them or reading what they were saying publicly how they didn't like it I would then see them on the sidelines watching 8th and 9th graders.

Coaches know what they like and they know what they are looking for, they do not care where the kid is from.

Stony Brook receives a lot of hype due to their usually impressive record. If they played a difficult schedule they would never receive all the hype or high ranking because their record would be very average. Yes they are a very good program but their schedule is nothin like other teams that are considered to be Top 10 programs.
Not sure that they would finish in the Top 10 very often if they played a difficult schedule. Top 20 yes, Top 10 maybe not.

Some good game this coming weekend.

Syracuse Vs Stanford
Northwestern Vs Boston College
JMU Vs UNC
Notre Dame Vs Michigan

New Coach at Cuse. New Offensive look at NU. How will the new faces at UNC fit in? Can Michigan pull off an upset?

There should be some really great games this weekend! So excited about lax starting up.

Michigan was pretty tough in 19 and 20. Hard to tell last year because of the Big 10 only schedule. Honestly surprised they have not been more competitive simply because the school has so much to offer. Maybe they will be the next program to consistently be a Top 20 team. Great academics, great athletic / lacrosse facilities no reason they should not be a Top 10 - 20 Program.

Somewhat incoherent. That said, All of the players that you mention were known to everyone while in HS, they were not diamond in the rough. In this day and age kids can get get good training just about everywhere but atr the end of the day, they player needs to put in the time and most importantly have the God given natural athletic ability.

I'm not exactly sure what the following even means

"Soo maybe coaches like Spallina has a knack for spotting the girls who, maybe their parents didn’t throw down money for every single exposure opportunity, every chance to be set by IL contributors, for funding and grabbing the real diamonds in the rough. "

I assume that you believe that if you spend the $$ you will be recognized by Inside lacrosse. Sorry, there are thousands of parents who spend thousands of dollars sending their kids to everything and they are never recognized. It's not about the $$ it's about the players ability. JS is a very good coach but he is not finding "diamonds in the rough" he is finding good players that pretty much everyone knows are good players.

It sounds to me like your daughter might not have been recognized by IL so you believe the evaluators got it wrong. Most of the players who have been recognized by the likes of IL and USA Lax have also been recognized by the best college programs because that is where the large majority of those players go to school.

By the way, pretty sure North, Scane were both recognized by the experts... no need to take their opinion with a grain of salt.

The real experts are the college coaches at the best college programs and they tend to agree with the people at IL, UA and USA Lax more times than not.

It's not very difficult to spot talented athletes, not too many slip through the cracks.

Nah, if a team falls out of the rankings than you did not beat a ranked team. I don't see any spin in the post that you are responding to, the actual record is the record, it's not spin. It is a fact not opinion that SBU has not done very well against Top 10 teams (nothing wrong with that very few teams do well vs Top 10 teams).

Maybe I am wrong but it seems that Stony Brook usually gets ranked high in the preseason, plays a significantly weaker schedule than the majority of teams that are ranked in the Top 20 therefor they do not lose many games and they remain ranked high throughout the season. Their Strength of Schedule is probably on par with programs like USC and Stanford who over the years have had some success and have been ranked fairly high from time to time but are usually exposed come tournament time. Unfortunately you can not use a teams record as a barometer in Women's Lacrosse when comparing teams from different conferences due to the fact that the level of competition varies so greatly. Some years, teams like UVA, Duke, Penn State, Hopkins might have to play UNC, BC, Northwestern or Maryland 2 or even 3 times because of conference and NCAA tournaments.

The NCAA Tournament absolutely operates that way, The Rankings are not supposed to be used, they use their own RPI formula to rank teams and they use the ranking as it actually is at the end of the regular season. So if a team had a Top 10 RPI in week three of the season but that team lost a bunch of games was not in the RPI Top 10 at the end of the regular season then you are not given credit for have a Top 10 win. That is reality, not spin.

Does ND beating up on central Michigan really help
Them become a better team or are they just padding stats a la Stony Brook?

Not really a fair comparison. Stony Brook dose a very good job scheduling strong programs for their OOC games.ND has had to lighten their OOC schedule a bit in order to ensure at least a .500 record so they can be considered for an at large bid to the Tournament. In any event, this is not youth lacrosse, as long as the stronger team clears their bench “early “ it’s okay. You have to let the players play, they can’t run around playing keep away. That said, It would be nice to see more assisted goals.

My guess is that if Stony Brook were an ACC team they would have to lighten their out of conference schedule a little as well. The reality is, most ACC and Big 10 teams have to be careful who they play OOC.

Wow North doesn’t disappoint at all. She is sensational. NW has to go back to positional defense and learn the lost trait of body position first, don’t chase the stick and learn how to take the charge and force through. North does a great job driving to cage and womens lax rules allow it. Have to play body defense on her even to have a chance.

Duke's out of conference schedule is awful. So far they outscored Gardner-Webb and Elon by a combined 47-8. Look at the rest of their non-conference and there is only one remotely competitive game with Penn.

Gardner-Webb 22-3
Elon 25-5
William & Mary
High Point
Wofford
East Carolina
Penn
Davidson
Liberty

And she was face-guarded!

She only disappoints if you play on the same team as her or when she goes up against the actual best player in the country .

Here we go again…obvious troll…..save it

Don’t take the bait. Obvious troll….just not sure what ur hoping to achieve with this ?

ND and Stanford didn’t disappoint as usual. At least 4 more L for ND

Well I guess confused as she is the best player in the country I would think.

Wow, such an insightful and informative post, thanks for taking the time to add to the conversation. Now slither back under your rock.

Hard to compare ACC teams to Stony Brook. ACC schedules are very difficult while Stony Brook plays a very soft schedule each year.

Stony Brook has used this to their advantage and it has obviously benefited them. Stony Brook pads their record every year which gets them ranked exceedingly high but their high ranking has always been based upon hype and not performance. It is what it is and it is not the fault of SBU that their conference is not super competitive but at the end of the day it has help them in the rankings but possibly left them unprepared for the NCAA Tournament.

Stanford looked pretty good, very competitive on the road against Syracuse. As for ND we have no Idea how good Michigan is so can't really tell much. Long season but ND was probably ranked too high to begin the season.

So after all the talk I had to watch. A closer game than I thought since i just saw final score and read the articles. 10-6 after three. Both goalies solid. What was glaring to me is refs. Can’t have a junior ref on a game this level. Struggled in basic rules.

Good luck to both teams as they move forward. Both team played hard.

You cancel culture CN sycophants are ridiculous. Someone dares to think CN is not the best player in the country and you go all fan girl . Sorry I happen to think the best player in the country is a defender. You all come on here with your defense wins championships but if someone thinks that a defender is the best player in the game it can't be because she does not run with her head down to goal. Is CN the best dodger in the NCAA , yes. Is she very good at the draw yes, as those things are very important it makes her one of the top players in the country. Does she get her team involved ,not really, good at the ride ,not really. I have watched Trenchard from UNC get the better of just about every teams best offensive player without employing a faceguard or them sending an early slide . If you think BC beat UNC last year because of CN you are just wrong it was in spite of her which tells you she is surrounded by a very good team . If you think her offensive teammates enjoy watching her dodge with her head down and not see her open teammates you would be wrong again even if she puts the ball in the back of the net.

What talk? What game are you talking about?

That said Stanford was missing their best player but did not look as competitive on Sunday.

Actually, it is fairly easy to compare. You are giving Duke a pass simply because they are in the ACC and discounting Stony Brook because they are not. Here is a comparison of of their schedules as it relates to current top 25 teams (obviously those rankings can change). Their top 25 team schedules are very comparable and I would argue that Stony Brook has a more competitive non-top 25 schedule.

DUKE Top 25- Syracuse, UNC, BC, Virginia, Notre Dame and Penn
Duke Other- Virginia Tech, Louisville, Pitt, Gardner-Webb, William & Mary, High Point, Wofford, East Carolina, Davidson, Liberty

Stony Brook Top 25- Syracuse, Northwestern, Florida, Princeton and Johns Hopkins
Stony Brook Other- Dartmouth, Arizona State, Yale, Brown, Hofstra, Albany, Binghamton, Vermont, UMBC, UMASS-Lowell, New Hampshire, Vermont

From the preseason top 5 poll, only one team got bounced, ND. Stony Brook somehow climbs two spots into the top 5 (#4), without even playing, that's a nice trick. Northwestern gets handled badly by BC and drops a little bit, below SBU, who would also get spanked by BC. Notre Dame was handled fairly easy this weekend, very surprised how uncompetitive they were in that game, but at least suffered the consequence in the poll. Mich boosted their stock up big, but ND may be suspect, ND stock definitely down. UNC not too much trouble with JMU, both teams stock about the same. Cuse struggled against a ranked Stan, but pulled it out at end and then ran away with another, stock even as is Stanford stock. Other than a big drop for ND and a big rise for Mich, the rest of the rankings reasonably steady. Mich jumped up 12 spots in the poll while ND only dropped 7 spots. That basically means seven teams lost poll spots from that one game and 12 teams were leap frogged. That one was a major upset and was the big shake up for this week. It will be interesting to see how both those teams fair the rest of the season. All other teams/games were not very telling, a few ranked teams pounding down some very poor competition, as expected. Teams expected to win, won, teams expected to lose, lost. The only team that looked like natty contenders so far was BC, but that only because they were playing a very competitive team out of the gate and getting it done easily.

Duke and to some degree Notre Dame have had to schedule less competitive programs for their non conference games because they need to make sure that they are at least .500 so they can be considered for the NCAA tournament.
Stony Brook tries to schedule tough non conference games against competitive programs however there is no guarantee that the programs will be Top 10 or even top 20 in a given year. The result is that Stony Brook plays nowhere near as competitive a schedule as the majority of programs that are considered to be the strongest programs. It is not close and as the post that you are responding to states the relatively weak schedule benefits Stony Brook. Over the years if Stony Brook played a similar schedule to what Maryland, UNC, Syracuse, Northwestern, Virginia, Boston College, Penn State, Notre Dame, Princeton, Florida and Duke the perception of Stony Brook would be much different than it is because the record would be nowhere as impressive as it has been and they would never be ranked as high as they have been. Stony Brooks actual performance vs high caliber teams has not been very good but their overall record is usually outstanding. They just do not play many games against top tier teams the way other highly regarded programs do. Lets see how they do this year, they have a hand full of strong programs on the schedule but at this point we have no idea how those teams will perform. Syracuse has a new coach and injury issues, Northwestern is without a top T award contender, Florida lost a lot to graduation, Princeton has not played a real game in 2 years, same goes for Dartmouth who is usually pretty good but not up there with the top teams and although Hopkins is competitive program they are usually in that 17 - 25 range not top 10 range. Hofstra may take a little step back this year, Albany is competitive every now and then, Arizona State is up and coming but I do not see any of those teams beating Stony Brook and I don't think the rest of the teams on their schedule have much of a chance. Just my opinion, I think it will come down to how they do against Syracuse, Northwestern, Florida and Princeton (and we do not know how those teams will be). If those teams are Top 10 I think SBU will need to beat two of them if they are not top 10 they might have to beat more than that, it is just the way it works out because of the CAA's punitive actions.

You are assuming Northwestern will be very competitive.

I agree with you on Stony Brook, nice trick jumping two spots without playing a game but I think the bigger trick was being ranked 6th to begin with. I would really like to know the justification for that, seems to happen every year but they have never really done anything to justify it.

Now apply that same analytical review to Duke's schedule. Dismiss Syracuse like you did above, dismiss Penn like you did to Princeton above. That leaves Duke with UNC, BC, Virginia and ND. Want to dismiss ND based on their performance against Michigan they are down to 3. So based on 3 very difficult games, that means their out of conference schedule should be Gardner-Webb, William & Mary, High Point, Wofford, East Carolina, Davidson and Liberty with Penn already discounted? That schedule is just as bad as Stony Brook's conference schedule. I do not discount your view of Stony Brook's schedule from a historical perspective but giving Duke a pass on theirs this season is off base.

So hard to watch these miss matched contests. It’s actually disgusting watching some of these teams beating lower level teams down 20-3. Can’t wait till the get their’s. What poor sportsmanship is being displayed. Duke has to be joking beating up on non competitive teams like that. I’ll have my popcorn out when you play BC!

Is it poor sportsmanship when other teams do it? Or just Duke?

So true , putting up 25 is gross and even worse when you have pathetic players running up their numbers in these games

Division I Womens’s Lacrosse 2-14-2022

Rank Institution Points (FPV) Last Poll
1 Boston College (1 - 0) 575 (23) 1
2 North Carolina (1 - 0) 552 2
3 Syracuse (2 - 0) 529 3
4 Stony Brook (0 - 0) 460 6
5 Northwestern (0 - 1) 442 4
6 Duke (2 - 0) 439 8
7 Florida (1 - 0) 428 7
8 Maryland (1 - 0) 421 9
9 Loyola (0 - 0) 371 10
10 Virginia (2 - 0) 351 11
11 Michigan (2 - 0) 328 23
12 Notre Dame (1 - 1) 326 5
13 James Madison (0 - 1) 300 12
14 Stanford (1 - 1) 297 13
15 Denver (1 - 0) 294 14
16 Princeton (0 - 0) 212 15
17 Rutgers (1 - 0) 204 17
18 Jacksonville (1 - 0) 195 18
19 Drexel (1 - 0) 167 16
20 Penn (0 - 0) 122 19
21 Johns Hopkins (1 - 0) 110 20
22 Temple (1 - 0) 76 22
23 UConn (0 - 0) 64 21
24 UMass (1 - 0) 57 24
25 Penn State (0 - 0) 33 25
RV UAlbany, Navy, Colorado, USC, Vanderbilt

I realize RPI was a little off last year, but average RPI of SBU’s 6 conf opponents and Duke’s first 6 opponents is almost identical. It’s one thing to schedule teams that you should beat because ACC is a tough conference, and then there is what Duke did. Embarrassed for them, esp considering they have so many seniors and 5th years. I have no allegiance to SBU and agree they are sometimes ranked a higher than they should be, but come on with defending Duke’s OOC schedule which is within their control. I hope none of you who love to point out how a small group of top ranked academic/lax programs including Duke get all the top players are not the same ones defending this schedule.

It depends on how they manage the game. Duke won 22-3 and 25-5. Duke’s top 2 players scored 22 goals in those two games. That is not a typo. That is a total disgrace. Particularly because it is out of conference and they elected to play these games. Duke has 5 more out of conference games against similar competition and then at least 2 or 3 more in conference. As a better example of how to manage a mis-match, Michigan beat Detroit Mercy 23-2 but 15 different girls scores goals and none had more than 2. That is the right way to do it.

Poor sportsmanship for any team. Syracuse mens did it last weekend too. Nobody wants to see that and Puke is notorious for it. Why not just play a competitive schedule. What are they afraid of?

Apparently most teams do it. If the coach pulls the starters early and gets everyone in the game then there is not much more that can be done. Reserve players put in the same amount of work as the Regulars (kids that play in every game) and in most games the Reserves will not see the field. I do not like to see it but you have to let the kids play.

Above is the post that took us down the rabbit hole.... The first response was something to the effect that ND and some other ACC teams as well as some Big 10 teams have had to schedule some less competitive teams for their non conference games (because their conference game are so difficult) so they can be sure to have at least a .500 record in order to ensure eligibility and consideration for the NCAA Tournament.

I really have not seen a post "defending" Duke for their in-game actions, what I have seen is people pointing out why they do not schedule more Top 10 or even Top 20 non conference games.

I am not sure of the exact timeline but for several years Duke was consistently a Top 10 program maybe even a Top 5 program with Final Four appearances. I think there were then a few years with very average records and even a losing record so the powers that be had to lighten the load in order to keep the record respectable.

No love or detest for Duke but I see why they (and others) have done it. As far as running up the score goes, I think most of the stronger programs are guilty of it.

It depends on how they manage the game. Duke won 22-3 and 25-5. Duke’s top 2 players scored 22 goals in those two games. That is not a typo. That is a total disgrace. Particularly because it is out of conference and they elected to play these games. Duke has 5 more out of conference games against similar competition and then at least 2 or 3 more in conference. As a better example of how to manage a mis-match, Michigan beat Detroit Mercy 23-2 but 15 different girls scored goals and none had more than 2. That is the right way to do it.

Dukes next 4 games. William & Mary, High Point , Wofford and East Carolina

Is there a point to your post? It has been established as to why Duke schedules less competitive programs for their non conference games. Not sure why people are harping on Duke when there are a lot of programs that have several games against teams that they will easily beat. Regardless of who they play out of conference, I'm pretty sure that if you look back over the past 5 - 10 years Duke plays one of the toughest schedule of any team. I would bet that very few programs have played more games against Top 10 and Top 20 Teams than Duke has. They have probably played more game Vs Top 5 teams than just about everyone as well.

this post is in response to Post # 36620 the system only takes a certain amount of posts per thread i guess.

That's some leap you make... But i will bite

Don't recall seeing anyone defending Dukes non conference schedule. Last years RPI was way off and trying to compare Stony Brooks schedule to pretty much any top program, well it is not comparable Stony Brook just does not play a very competitive schedule year in and year out. That is not by choice, they can only schedule so many non conference games. I don't really see a lot of posts pointing out how the "top ranked academic programs get all of the top players". Not a lot of talk about Columbia, Yale, Harvard, Brown, Dartmouth, Vanderbilt, Cornell bringing in all of the top lacrosse players. The top lacrosse programs are a different story. The "Top lacrosse programs" absolutely do get the vast majority of the top lacrosse players. That fact is not really debatable, the year in and year out results prove that.

The other Top teams in the ACC all have much tougher schedules then Duke. BC just played Northwestern, UNC has Florida coming up, Syracuse has Stonybrook and UVA is extremely tough. Duke took the easy way out.

"Is there a point to your post? It has been established as to why Duke schedules less competitive programs for their non conference games. Not sure why people are harping on Duke when there are a lot of programs that have several games against teams that they will easily beat. Regardless of who they play out of conference, I'm pretty sure that if you look back over the past 5 - 10 years Duke plays one of the toughest schedule of any team. I would bet that very few programs have played more games against Top 10 and Top 20 Teams than Duke has. They have probably played more game Vs Top 5 teams than just about everyone as well."

Name the other ACC school that schedules as many completely non competitive non conference games. To say they play one of the toughest schedules is laughable as they are forced to, your schedule is on par with the brand new Pitt team which says a lot about Dukes program and coaches.All of the ACC teams ranked above you play a clearly more difficult schedule and only looked at the next behind you , UVA, and they may play the most difficult schedule of any team in the country. It will not happen but when they come to post season accolades they need to look at the level of competition they are putting up these grossly inflated stats.

If Dukes SOS is laughable I would love to hear your thoughts on approximately 100 - 110 other DI Programs.

Those other D1 programs don’t claim to be Duke. Compare Dukes schedule to the other ACC teams in their division and it is laughable.

Look at the ACC vs. Duke from a non-conference top 25 perspective. Also, the other teams generally have another 1-2 teams on their schedule that might crack the top 25 during the season (except for Pitt, Louisville and Virginia Tech). Duke has no one near that class. Their non-conference is clearly the easiest amongst the top 6 teams in the conference and arguably the worst in the conference.

Syracuse- Stanford, Stonybrook, Northwestern, Florida, Temple, Loyola
UNC- James Madison, Florida, Jacksonville, Northwestern
Viginia- Maryland, Princeton, Stanford, James Madison
Notre Dame- Michigan, Northwestern, Jacksonville
BC- Northwestern, Mass, Denver
Virginia Tech- Jacksonville, James Madison
Louisville- Denver
Duke- Penn
Pitt- Penn State

Puke!

You can harp on Non-Conference all you want but over the past several years, 2015 - 2021 (I would have looked at only the past 5 years but 20' & 21' were not normal)
only UNC, Syracuse, Virginia, Maryland and Boston College have played a more competitive schedule than Duke.

That means what? Duke plays a more competitive schedule than 112 DI Teams.

Here are the actual number of game Vs Top 20 teams from 2015 - 2021

92 - North Carolina
70 - Syracuse
67 - Northwestern
66 - Maryland
63 - Virginia
61 - Boston College
53 - Duke

That's reality, Below are the next group...

52 - Penn State
52 - Notre Dame
48 - Princeton
44 - Florida

Below that we have the following

37 - JMU
37 - Loyola
35 - USC
34 - Stony Brook
33 - Penn
29 - Stanford

Get the picture....

Not this year and the way they are managing these blowouts is bush league.

Oh please, give it a rest already. Even this year with some weak non conference opponents Duke’s schedule will be mor competitive than 100 - 110 teams. I just looked at some other teams schedules over the last few years and most of the top teams have their share of blowouts. No fan of Duke but they play a very challenging schedule compared to most teams. Just look at the earlier post, only 6 programs have played a more competitive schedule in recent years. That is fact not opinion.

“Those other D1 programs don’t claim to be Duke.” Maybe because they are not Duke. Why not compare their schedule to All DI Teams?

Like it or not Duke plays one of the toughest schedules in all of Division I women’s lacrosse.

Not sure why that upsets some people.

What makes Duke’ schedule even more impressive is that the majority of their Top 20 opponents were Regular Season Games, Duke did not make the NCAA Tournament in 17’, 18’, 19’ or 20’ ( no tournament in 2920).

I’m sure many other teams didn’t play Top 20 Teams until the NCAA Tournament therefore their schedules prove to be even weaker when compared to Duke’s.

You Duke people are embarrassing yourselves . First off Duke plays an extremely weak non conference schedule , if they want to be considered a top 20 team then they should act like it with the games they get to pick . They allowed the CN nonsense and then complain when she leaves now have a CN wannabe with no talent who will put up big numbers against these completely overmatched teams and promote her , The strange thing is there is no way that any parent justifies putting up 25 other than the ball hog putting up a career best , gross.

**Looking at your rankings/math here….shouldn’t Duke be in your “mid-tier” with 53 points, 1 point more than PS and ND - rather then 8 points below last place BC in the “top-tier”. But I understand your bias.

I don't think it's a ranking, it is just an actual factual account of the competition each team plays. Too many on here base their comments on opinion not actual results or facts.

Duke plays a weak out of conference schedule but overall they play a more difficult schedule than just about every other team.

This is the second cowardly attack on a young women, why such animosity? Never mind, we know the answer.

In order for a team to be considered a top tier team they should have to play top tier teams.... Can't just go out and beat up on weak competition.

Here is how many games the following teams played against Top 5 opponents from 2015 - 2021 (Penn & Princeton 2014 - 2020 since they did not play in 21)

34 - Syracuse
33 - Northwestern
32 - UNC
31 - Virginia
30 - Maryland

29 - Boston College
25 - Notre Dame
23 - Duke
21 - Florida

19 - JMU
15 - Princeton
14 - Penn State
13 - Penn

9 - USC
9 - Stony Brook
8 - Loyola
6 - Stanford

I guess spin, hype and propaganda can not change facts, perception does not equal reality.

I am guessing that Va Tech and Louisville most likely play a more difficult schedule than USC, Stony Brook, Loyola and Stanford.

Since we are in 2022, look at the facts for this season. Of the 9 teams in the ACC, Duke has the 8th ranked schedule ahead of only Pitt, a first year program.

what are the number if you take out conference games, that are required.

Who cares? Why the obsession with OOC games? A team’s overall schedule is what matters.

What would be the point of that? All games count, what purpose would taking out conference games serve?

It is what it is, Duke consistently plays a more difficult schedule than all but a handful of teams. Conference, non-conference it doesn't matter, they all count.

Why some on here want to spin it any other way seems very strange to me. What could their agenda possibly be? Personally I could care less who Duke plays but the facts are the facts, they play a very competitive schedule.

Sampling of teams and number of current top 25 teams on their 2022 schedule:

Duke - 6

UF - 8
JMU - 7
Drexel - 6
Arizona - 6
Stony Brook - 5
Denver - 5
Vandy - 5

I didn’t even bother checking Big 10 and ACC because they automatically get ranked opponents through conference and then schedule more OOC.

Yes, some of the ranked opponents might drop out but other opponents might be ranked by end of season. Either way, those bubble teams don’t fall too far out of top 25. I’m not sure Duke has any unranked opponents that have a chance of being ranked by end of season. We’ll see if Penn stays top 25.

Lol, that’s funny. Duke is an average team who will be exposed soon enough. Look at their history. They have never won anything except one conference title almost 20 years ago. They just don’t attract the best girls. Not sure why but I have feeling it’s due to the coaching.

Results matter as well. I took the last 5 seasons (2021, 2019, 2018, 2017 and 2016) from Duke's website (they actually have 1 result incorrect against Virginia Tech in the ACC conference tournament) and the final IWLCA rankings. Well, it is pretty clear why Duke's 2022 schedule is ranked 8th out 9 in the ACC, they are not winning competitive games. I count 51 games against top 25 ranked teams (in some poll years the IWLCA only did 20 so I also counted those receiving votes). Duke is 12-39 against ranked teams. During that 5 year stretch, they have 4 top 10 wins, a #8, 2 #9s and a #10. Those results get you their 2022 out of conference schedule as they cannot afford to lose any additional games outside of conference.

Actually, what's funny is how the haters like to change the subject and the narrative. Not a single person on here said anything about Duke winning anything. It was a simple discussion about Strength of Schedule. Duke is certainly an above average team who plays an above average schedule. I'm going out on a limb and going to guess that many of the detractors have an academic inferiority complex . Whatever the horse has been beaten to death and the lies exposed. Duke is a very solid program better than at least 100 other programs and they play one of the more competitive schedules each year.

Haters gonna detest...

Just compare the men's program to the women's and you get the same answer. All the same advantages from a recruiting perspective with different results when it comes to winning time.
Women- 7 NCAA semi-finals (1 in last 10 years), 0 finals and 0 championships
Men- 12 NCAA semi-finals (5 in the last 10 years), 6 finals (3 in the last 10 years) and 3 championships (2 in the last 10 years)

No kidding, that was the point from the beginning...

This is really getting comical. Keep moving the goalpost and the narrative. Now we are comparing Duke Men's and Women's Teams? I just do not get the obsession with trying to diminish Duke.

The Facts are the Facts.

Duke plays a more competitive schedule every year than all but a small number of teams.

Duke, by all accounts is a stronger program than at least 100 other programs.

Duke has accomplished more than probably all but maybe 10 - 15 programs.

Sorry, I just do not understand the detest or the attempts to knock Duke or spread misinformation.

I truly believe it a jealousy or inferiority thing. Either way it's all a bit nutty to me.

I think the whole thing started with people being disgusted with Duke’s unsportsmanlike behavior. Makes people want to root against them. I for one look forward to seeking them getting a taste of their own medicine.

Apparently, results do not matter. Just compare the results of Duke and Stony Brook during the years that you looked at (2016, 2017, 2018, 2019, 2021).

Vs Top 20

12 - 36 Duke
16 - 12 Stony Brook

Vs Top 10

7 - 24 Duke
3 - 11 Stony Brook

Vs Top 5

1 - 19 Duke
0 - 8 Stony Brook

Can someone please explain how Stony Brook gets ranked in the top 10 most years while Duke struggles to get ranked in the Top 20? Sorry, I just do not get it. Stony Brook does not play a very difficult schedule and they rarely beat Top 10 Teams. Doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me.

I guess now we all know why Duke is scheduling less competitive non-conference games. Beat up on those teams and maybe they will be rewarded.

Comparing Duke to the entire universe of D1 lacrosse is silly. That being said, here are their final rankings over the last 5 seasons. Ranked in the top 10-1, top 25-2, unranked- 2. For the unranked, they were less than the 25th ranked team. During that same time, they are 12-39 against teams ranked in the top 25 with only 4 top 10 wins. Their ranking is actually being lifted more by losing to good teams then beating them!!! No matter how you do the math, they are not a top 10-15 team the last 5 seasons.

IWLCA FINAL RANK
2021- #8
2019- #21
2018- unranked
2017- unranked
2016- #11

TOP 25 WIN/LOSS RECORD & TOP 10 WINS
2021- 3-7 (1 vs. #8)
2019- 2-8 (1 vs. #9)
2018- 2-9 (1 vs. #8)
2017- 0-8 (0 wins)
2016- 5-7 (1 vs. #10)

Exactly correct. They played Gardner-Webb and Elon. Won 22-3 and 25-5. Their top two players scored 22 goals.

Not by Choice

Duke beat Gardner-Webb and Elon and jumped 8 spots higher in the IWLCA rankings...

Although I agree with the embarrasment of running up the score like they do. There is no justification to bashing any young women on here, especially when that " no name" "mediocre" " non talented" young women was the #5 recruit in her graduating class according to IL

Here we go again, just like a previous post stated.... Move the goal post and change the narrative. I will take the numbers as being accurate but if you say Duke is not a Top 10 - 15 team, How in the world does a teams like Stony Brook get ranked in the Top 10 even The Top 5? Makes no sense.

100% agree. I'm willing to bet whoever posted it is still mad that the player received more lacrosse accolades and went to a far better University.

Actually, comparing Duke to the entire lacrosse is not silly at all. In fact that is exactly what you are doing when you say they are not a Top 10 - 15 the past 5 seasons. With the exception of: Boston College, Maryland, North Carolin, Northwestern, Florida, Syracuse and possibly Virgina, Princeton and Notre Dame what programs are better? As for your statement "Their ranking is actually being lifted more by losing to good teams then beating them!!!" I will say at least Duke is playing the best teams.

There is no math being done, people are simply putting out actual results. Really it is the Duke haters who keep trying to come up wiith different ways to support their opinion but it simply does not work. The numbers are the numbers.

This has become very entertaining watching haters try to come up with way to negate reality.

"Actually, comparing Duke to the entire lacrosse is not silly at all. In fact that is exactly what you are doing when you say they are not a Top 10 - 15 the past 5 seasons. With the exception of: Boston College, Maryland, North Carolin, Northwestern, Florida, Syracuse and possibly Virgina, Princeton and Notre Dame what programs are better? As for your statement "Their ranking is actually being lifted more by losing to good teams then beating them!!!" I will say at least Duke is playing the best teams.

There is no math being done, people are simply putting out actual results. Really it is the Duke haters who keep trying to come up wiith different ways to support their opinion but it simply does not work. The numbers are the numbers.

This has become very entertaining watching haters try to come up with way to negate reality."

Do you think their out of conference schedule this year is appropriate for a top 20 team? Do you think running up the score by over 20 goals against clearly over matched opponents who you selected to play is good sportsmanship. Its entertaining to watch the Duke fans do anything to avoid admitting the simple truth , your coaches schedule non competitive out of conference games because they know you have a good chance at losing to teams in the top 25 and not getting to .500 and missing the NCAA tournament again. You again try to say that UVA, Princeton,,ND have been possibly better than Duke the past 5 seasons when all have been better , take UVA for example who play a difficult out of conference schedule every year and have made the NCAA tornament each of the last 5 seasons while Duke has not .The ggod news is Duke will make the NCAA tournament this year and will not make it very deep again.

No. Agree that the Duke OOC schedule is not appropriate. But stop crapping on SBU and lets see what you have to say about the Maryland OOC this year. Talk about ducking the competition.

Is this a joke ?

Remarks about individual players will not be tolerated. Please refrain from such comments even if “code” is being used to single them out. Debate about teams, strength of schedule, etc are OK if not entertaining. Do not bring the student athletes into the discussion in a negative way. It’s the first week folks!

No problem with their non conference schedule, they can play who they want. By they way, it was pointed out why they do it very early on and nobody is defending it, it is what it is.

BC just ran up the score 22 - 5 with CN putting up 7, i wonder if we will hear the same BS?

Not a single person on here has not admitted exactly why Duke schedules weak out of conference games.

So, If UVA, Princeton and ND along with the other teams mentioned above are all stronger programs than Duke, which of the other 100 programs are stronger?

Which of the other 100 programs play a tougher schedule?

Who is crapping on Stony Brook? They play a weak schedule every year, they do not do well when they do play strong teams, they have under performed in the NCAA Tournament based on expectations every year. Their record vs Top 10 teams is not good. Those are just facts. sorry if you do not like the truth.

Duke has 1 (Penn) top 25 out of conference opponent, Maryland has 5 (Virginia, Florida, Penn, Princeton, James Madison)

Strange obsession with this non conference nonsense. Overall SOS is really all that matters.

Really digging deep now.

MOVING ON from this super annoying debate between like 3 people...UConn barely squeaked out a win against Fairfield. Is UConn ranked too high?

Current rankings mean very little, the only rankings that have some meaning (even though the selection committee says they are not part of the selection criteria) are the rankings / RPI / SOS / Quality Wins at the end of the regular season. ACC,B1G, Ivy, Patriot, CAA and PAC conferences that many years have multiple at large bids now have two additional teams to compete with in JMU and SBU for the Bid. JMU and Stony Brook also now have a much more difficult path to the Tournament, should be interesting.

Lol, that just about sums it!

Below are the results if you average the final IWLCA rankings over the past 5 full seasons. For the ivies I also used 2015 as they all did not play last year. There are a few years were IWLCA had a top 25 and earlier years where it was a top 20. Where they also had teams as receiving votes I added them as the next ranked team such as #26 or #21. Several teams have a year where they were not ranked. I used a ranking of #30 as a plug. Interesting results. I can see some folks not liking certain teams being ranked ahead of Duke, but that is the data. Also, take Stanford that was 2-0 against Duke, USC that was 1-0 against Duke, PENN 3-1 against Duke. Anyway, don't let a short memory and slanted view take away from how these teams performed. My two cents, #19 is about right for Duke over that time period with an IWLCA ranking of #8, #21, N/R, N/R and #11. They also went 12-39 over that period against top 25 teams with no wins against a team ranked higher then #8.

Let's see how Duke handles their incredibly demanding schedule over the next two weeks with William & Mary, High Point, Wofford and East Carolina.

1. UNC 3.2
2. Maryland 3.4
3. BC 5.2
4. Stony Brook 6.8
5. Syracuse 7.8
6. Florida 8.2
7. Northwestern 8.2
8. Princeton 10.0
9. PENN 12.0
10. Virginia 12.4
11. James Madison 13.0
12. Notre Dame 13.0
13. Penn St. 16.8
14. Loyola 17.2
15. USC 17.8
16. Navy 19.8
17. Stanford 20.0
18. Denver 21.6
19. Duke 22.0
20. Johns Hopkins 22.2
21. Colorado 22.2
22. MASS 23.8
23. Louisville 26.0

Thanks for the leg work.

Since you still want to harp on Duke and only focus on their week out of conference schedule, please tell me how Stony Brook is at 4. They have done absolutely nothing and they play a weak schedule every year.

Many UConn was practicing good sportsmanship. Nah, that’s can’t be it the only team that is unsportsmanlike is Duke. Nobody else would ever run the score up.

I just do not understand the focus on Duke. Has there been a single post where someone has said that Duke should have been ranked higher or that they should have made the tournament in the years where they did not? I have seen several posts over the past year or two or even three that have listed the 10 "best" programs and I am pretty sure that they are the exact same programs that your analysis has identified. I agreed and believed that those 10 programs were the 10 best programs based on their "Final Ranking" over the years. However, this discussion has shed some light on results as apposed to just rankings. Based on performance and results Stony Brook has been highly over ranked. Their SOS does not compare with any of the Top 10 with the exception of possibly Penn and their results in no way justify a top 10 ranking. It appears that the focus on knocking Duke has exposed Stony Brook. Duke seems to be punished for a lackluster record while playing a very difficult schedule while Stony Brook seems to be rewarded for playing a week schedule and padding their record. I am a firm believer that teams should be rewarded for playing a difficult schedule (SOS matters) but at the same time you actually have to win some games against the best teams if you want to be considered a top team. Neither Duke or Stony Brook have done that but their treatment in the polls / rankings has been very different. Based on their SOS every year Duke could probably have been ranked a little higher but Stony Brook should be no where near # 4. USC, Loyola, Penn and Stanford also appear to benefit from a soft schedule but by far Stony Brook has been the most overrated.

A question was asked earlier asking to explain why Stony Brook is always ranked so high, I haven't seen an answer but the reason can not be based on their performance or results.

Not really it says a lot about what a coach thinks of their team , the better teams and coaches want to challenge themselves the lesser teams have coaches that know they can’t compete .

Don’t think Penn State will continue to be in the mix. Their # 13 is because of the earlier time in your data. They have been down since 2019 and they do not look very good at this time. Not picking on PSU but didn’t they go to back to back Final Fours just a short time ago? Denver seems to get over looked. Louisville looked like they were going to make some noise and then they just fizzled out. Syracuse challenges themselves with a very difficult schedule and GG is considered a very good coach but was not able to win. Stony Brook gets a lot of hype, they are always raked high and their coach is considered excellent yet like Syracuse they can’t get it done. Florida and ND similar to Stony Brook and Syracuse but it is the Florida and ND coaches that are blamed for their shortcomings. JMU is still the shining light, they are always competitive, they play a relatively difficult schedule, they won a National Championship with few to no highly touted recruits and most of you do not know the coaches name. Virginia and Princeton are very steady, both play competitive schedules (more so for Virginia/ ACC) and garner some quality wins but haven’t been able to get back to the Final Four or win another National Championship. Would love to see Navy back in the Final Four! 🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸
Hopkins is Hopkins, very steady always around # 20, solid program, excellent academics… Just not the same college experience as the other Big 10 schools. UNC, MD and BC have been in a class by themselves and on another level but MD could be taking a little step back the way Northwestern did after their dominant run. Penn, USC, Loyola and Stanford are all solid but tend to lack depth and that makes it tough to go from Top 20 to Top 10. UMass has flown under the radar, they have had some very good season but have not received the attention that they earned. Colorado??? Very surprised they have not done better, that’s not a knock, they are on that list. IMHO Colorado has a lot to offer, I personally love the place.

Welcome to Insomnia …

Yes really, it’s not rational to be so concerned with a teams non conference schedule. Not normal. What drives the obsession?

I am no fan of Stony Brook, but their numbers are not as bad as many on this forum state. Over the past five full seasons, they played 42 teams ranked in the top 25 of the IWLCA rankings. They went 27-15 against those teams. That is pretty good, but only 4 of those wins were against top 10 opponents and no one ranked higher than #8. Who they beat does not support a #4 ranking, but their schedule is not weak. As a point of reference, they played more top 25 teams at 42 than Duke at 39. I would put Stony Brook more in the #10 range.

As of right now, Richmond, Drexel, Michigan, Hopkins are better than Duke

BC displayed excellent sportsmanship yesterday against UMass. Up 22-5 with 10 seconds left in the game a player from BC picks up a ground ball, sprints down field and takes a shot that was saved by the goalie to end the game. That's sportsmanship!

Can't we just solve this by Duke playng Stony Brook every year in an OCC game!?

Made a revision and added a bit more info...

I am no fan of Stony Brook, but their numbers are not as bad as many on this forum state. Over the past five full seasons, they played 42 teams ranked in the top 25 of the IWLCA rankings. They went 27-15 against those teams. That is pretty good, but only 4 of those wins were against top 10 opponents and no one ranked higher than #8. Who they beat does not support a #4 ranking, but their schedule is not weak. As a point of reference, they played 42 top 25 teams and Duke played 51 going 12-39. So Duke played more top 25, more in the top 10 but their results were substantial worse than Stony Brook 12-39 vs. 27-15. I would put Stony Brook more in the #10 range.

Some great points. In putting this together, it was interesting to see how teams that were highly ranked in 2016-2018 have dropped so far so fast. Penn St and Navy are a couple where that was evident. James Madison lost a tough one to Virginia Tech last night so they will need to rally to stay top 15 this season. I am rooting for the west coast to keep progressing, it will make lacrosse more attractive from my perspective. What this also affirmed was that D1 womens lacrosse at the elite level is still dominated by just two teams in Maryland and Northwestern if you go back a bit further. These 2 teams have won 12 of the last 16 championships with UNC winning 2, BC 1 and James Madison 1.

Not sure why we keep going back to Stony Brook and Duke but here you go.

The "Regular Season" schedules for these two teams do not compare at all, Duke consistently plays a much more difficult schedule. I do not like Top 25 would rather use Top 20 as the benchmark because i believe Top 20 to be more accurate (not sure if i am correct).

From 2016 - 2021 all seasons.

Numbers of Games vs Top 25 Teams

66 - Duke
42 - Stony Brook

Dukes Record

24 - 42 vs Top 25
22 - 41 vs Top 20
8 - 28 vs Top 10
2 - 20 vs Top 5

Stony Brooks Record

30 - 12 vs Top 25
19 - 11 vs Top 20
5 - 8 vs Top 10
1 - 3 vs Top 5

No spin, no propaganda those are the numbers.

Number of games vs Top 20

63 - Duke
30 - Stony Brook

Number of games vs Top 10

36 - Duke
13 - Stony Brook

Number of games vs Top 5

22 - Duke
4 - Stony Brook

The moral of the story is that Stony Brook has been rewarded for playing a relatively weak regular season schedule compared to just about all traditional Top 10 - 20 teams. Duke on the hand appears to be punished for playing a regular season schedule that is more in line with Traditional Top 20 teams.

Not knocking or promoting either team, the numbers are the numbers.
12 of Stony Brooks games were vs teams outside the Top 20, while only 3 of Dukes games were vs teams outside the Top 20.
Duke played much more difficult teams and had more Top 20 wins.

No comparison in the overall Strength of Schedule.

Drexel is good this year and Rutgers may surprise a few.

Both were pretty good last year as well.

Interested in how you got your data on Duke? I manually compared their schedules form 2016-2021 (excluded 2020) against only final IWLCA rankings, not what a team may have been ranked during the year. Duke was nowhere near 66 games vs. the top 25.

Then the same can be said for UNC who beat Furham 20-7

Both were in NCAA's Rutgers beat Drexel

I think it might include 2015.

Looked it over,

2015 - 2021 Only regular season and Conference Playoffs No NCAA Tournament Games. Rankings are IWLCA Final Season Poll.

It is very clear why Duke has lightened the load with their non conference games.

I will take Bc and UNC vs the field this year. I think BC has gotten better defensively but slightly weaker on offense while UNC has gotten weaker on defense and about the same on offense. Coaching goes to BC. I would take UNC every time against BC but I thought the same thing last year.

where did courtney weeks go? didn't see her in the first two BC games.

Ha…

The even a blind squirrel finds a nut theory. Keep picking UNC it may pan out one of these years.

Over the past 8 and 16 full seasons, UNC has had more success at winning national championships than every D1 school except Maryland and Northwestern. In the last 8 full seasons, they have won 2 (25%). In the last 16 years, only UNC (2), BC (1) and James Madison (1) are schools that have won a national title not named Maryland (5) or Northwestern (7). Since 2013 UNC has made 6 of 8 final fours. Tough not to pick on UNC...

Virginia up 9-6 on Maryland at the Half, Maryland scores 8 unanswered goals in like 13 minutes in the 3rd Quarter…. I do not recall Virginia coach using a TO… it’s possible that I missed it but C’mon Man… Give the girls a little help.

Michigan upsets Notre Dame. Virginia Tech upsets JMU. USC upsets Jacksonville. Any other upsets so far?

Vanderbilt beat Notre Dame today.

There was a lot of bashing of Duke for unsportsmanlike behavior for running up the score. It appears as though it was just an excuse to attack Duke, no other teams being attacked for doing the exact same thing.

Maybe if Duke played any quality opponents they wouldn’t get bashed. I’m sure the upcoming games against East Carolina and Wofford will give them a chance to really pad their stats.

Vanderbilt over ND is an upset, USC over Jacksonville not so much.

Michigan yes. Va Tech yes.

ND in trouble early, JMU with no AQ can not afford many more like this.

Should be an interesting year.

What is AQ?

Automatic qualifier for winning the conference

Those other teams such as BC are also guilty of being unsportsmanlike but there did seem to be some differences . The teams BC have run it up against are not the caliber that Duke is doing it against and it looks to me that the removed their top scorer early when she had scored no more than she normally does against the top 10 teams . Duke has kids padding their stats putting up numbers they have no chance at getting against the best teams .

AQ is generally winner of your conference (I think for conferences with 6 or more teams)

Automatic Qualifying

Complete BS.

The petty nonsense from the CAA and America East could definitely hurt both JMU and Stony Brook. Both have a limited number of chances to pick up quality wins. Unless things change, JMU has opportunities with Rutgers, Virginia, Maryland and Drexel. Stony Brook has opportunities with Florida, Northwestern and Princeton. Depending on where their opponents finish the regular season, both teams may need at least two wins vs the teams listed.

New rankings. StoneyBrook put up a great fight against Syracuse and Princeton was so strong against UVA. The other Ivies did not open with difficult games. Kudos to Princeton for starting with a challenge and showing up in big style. Northwestern players and a step-up moment playing ASU and Gilbert fouled out. Took them a moment, but the young players got there.

https://www.usalaxmagazine.com/coll...gt5NeUZ8IHZVoaH97IrMAsDjnTVNDcpvIvtg3Wac

SB v SU game was an enjoyable game to watch. They played lax the old fashion way, up and down the field. I don’t the shot clock came into play very often. Also great fast break to slow break goals on both ends. Settled offense maybe 30-35 percent of goals. Overall a pretty clean game-why because the the one ref controlled it right from the start on the very first yellow he gave. Play clean, or your out. And teams did it. (Couple slide up the shoulder yellows but not with intent)

Great job by refs balancing letting them play and stopping it when they needed to.

Wish more games were played like this….

Ask Stony Brook how they voted when Boston University left the conference in 2013. BU was also banned from post season tournament participation. You reap what you sow.

Very good point.

Syracuse not going to the Final Four, Borderline Top 10. Struggled with both Stanford and Stony Brook. SBU Goalkeeper kept Stony Brook in the game, she is excellent.

Duke leads D1 lacrosse in goals per game at 23 beating their 4 opponents by a combined 92-26. Duke has the #1 and #2 point and goal leaders in the country scoring a combined 42 goals compared to 26 by their opponents. With Wofford and East Carolina coming up the onslaught should continue. The #3 points leader in the country has played two ranked teams, the #4 one ranked team and the #5 two ranked teams. Duke has played Gardner-Webb, High Point, Elon and William & Mary. That is why Duke is catching grief.

Bla, Bla, Bla... plenty of other teas running up the score. Could care less about who Duke plays or how many goals they score. Other teams doing it and nobody is complaining.

22- 5 BC over UMass
19 - 2 Albany over Colgate
22 - 6 BC over BU
21- 2 Monmouth over Central Ct
23 - 6 Syracuse over Binghamton
20 - 2 Jacksonville over Niagara
23 - 2 Michigan over Detroit Mercy

The list goes on... Fine by me to bash Duke but at least be consistent in your bashing...

You are looking at a portion of one dimension and not the entire three combined (strength of schedule, goal differential and individual statistics). Below are the current top 10 teams per game goal differential, top 25 opponents and top individual points per game scorers.

Duke has the #1 goal differential in D1, the #1 and #2 points per game individual scorers in D1 and has played 4 games without a top 25 opponent with two more unranked opponents coming this week. When you look at all three components, Duke is letting its best players run it up against the weakest competition at a rate higher than any other top ranked team in the country. To be clear, this is not a criticism of any player, they are doing what their coaches tell them to do:

Duke- 16, (none) 2 players at 7
Boston College- 14 (Northwestern) 1 player at 6, 1 player at 4
UNC- 10 (Florida, James Madison) 2 players at 5
Michigan- 10 (Notre Dame) 1 player at 3
Maryland- 9 (Virginia) 1 player at 5
Loyola- 9 (Johns Hopkins) 1 player at 6
Syracuse- 7 (Stanford, Stony Brook) 1 player at 6, 1 player at 5
Florida- 5 (UNC) 1 player at 7, 1 player at 5
Northwestern- 3 (BC) 1 player at 4
Stony Brook- -1 (Syracuse) 2 players at 4

Ignorance is bliss….a beat down is looming

Who cares, they will be in their ACC schedule soon enough. Their overall schedule is probably tougher than 85% of D1 teams.

You lose all credibility when you include Stony Brook in you analysis. Stony Brook has always played a much weaker schedule than any other team considered to be be Top 10 - 20 and they have used that weak schedule to garner a very good looking overall record while allowing their players to pad their stats against weak competition.

Teams choose out of conference games they play. Thats what makes Dukes schedule laughable They choose that

It seems to me someone has an ax to grind with Duke. If Duke were the only team to run up the score maybe I could understand the whining but that is not the case, many teams do it , why the focus on Duke? Duke plays a weak non conference schedule but overall their schedule is pretty tough.

It looks like all of the games listed above were out of conference games. They were all Blowouts.

Off the top of my head, Duke will have games vs Syracuse, Penn, Notre Dame, Virginia Tech, Boston College and North Carolina and possibly 1 or 2 additional ACC games. Outside of ACC teams not too many programs will play many more difficult games than Duke. All of the carrying on is a bit much, none of it matters, Duke will either be competitive vs ACC teams or they will not be competitive. It will all come out in the wash. Sorry, I just don’t get the concern over a snapshot in time. There is a lot of lacrosse to be played, time will tell who is who and what is what.

This response is ignorant on many levels. Other teams have been called out many times over the years at both the collegiate and high school levels for doing exactly that on this site. The other teams are doing it so its okay excuse is ridiculous and these coaches should be better than scheduling obviously overmatched opponents and running up the score . Duke is a good team and there is no reason to do this other than having some of your players pad their overinflated stats,

AND ensuring a .500 average come to tournament bid selection time.
It would be great for the sport, and college athletics in general, is the elite academics (NU, Hopkins, Stanford, vanderbilt, Duke, ND, Stanford, USC, Ivies) could make a “pact”, so to speak, where they strive to rotate through all 16 or so schools every 4-5 years in their OOC schedule.

What in the world are you talking about?

Not ignorant at all. No other team is being criticized right now for running up the score or their stats. It would appear that everyone but you knows exactly why Duke has lightened the non conference schedule in recent years.

The pollsters punish team’s who play a difficult schedule and have a very average or below average record and they reward teams that play a (relatively) weak schedule compared to other top 20 caliber teams.

The main reason Duke has changed the caliber of non conference opponents is to ensure at least a .500 record.

They don’t do it so their players can rack up points.

It’s all in the RPI - just you wait...

Watched the game. Good game two solid teams.

Your comments regarding “pretty clean game” are a bit out of left field. Stony Brook with 6 yellow cards… that’s not too clean.

The Dukies are afraid of the virus.. they are staying close to home, buses only.. and wont be getting on any airplanes for an OOC game.. Im sure it cam from the top

Sorry, no. Duke started scheduling less competitive non conference games before the pandemic.

To an extent maybe.. but they always made at least 1 trip out west.. either Stanford or Northwestern

Womens's Division I Rankings 20-21-2022

Rank Institution Points (FPV) Last Poll
1 Boston College (3 - 0) 625 (25) 1
2 North Carolina (3 - 0) 599 2
3 Syracuse (3 - 0) 576 3
4 Stony Brook (0 - 1) 512 4
5 Maryland (2 - 0) 483 8
6 Northwestern (2 - 1) 479 5
7 Florida (1 - 1) 461 7
8 Duke (4 - 0) 454 6
9 Loyola (1 - 0) 419 9
10 Michigan (4 - 0) 391 11
11 Princeton (1 - 0) 383 16
12 Denver (3 - 0) 361 15
13 Virginia (2 - 2) 293 10
14 Rutgers (3 - 0) 252 17
15 Drexel (3 - 0) 229 19
16 Stanford (1 - 2) 197 14
17 Notre Dame (1 - 2) 186 12
18 James Madison (1 - 2) 167 13
19 Penn (1 - 0) 162 20
20 Temple (3 - 0) 157 22
21 Jacksonville (2 - 1) 156 18
22 Vanderbilt (2 - 0) 153 NR
23 USC (3 - 0) 133 NR
24 Johns Hopkins (1 - 1) 48 21
25 UConn (1 - 1) 39 23
RV UMass, Colorado, Ohio State, Virginia Tech, Navy

All the elites should have the opportunity to play one another in OOC play. Instead, you have teams like Duke blowing out Gardner Webb and Elon for clout.

Exactly! Maybe the poster before you went to Duke

Why not just have the best 20 programs complete against each other and only have the best programs complete in the NCAA Tournament.

How many teams make NCAA Tournament this year?

How many automatic bids?

How many at large bids?

Just looked at Virginia's schedule.... Very difficult.

If they do not make the NCAA Tournament I could see them going the way of Duke.

Why Elite academic schools and who decides who the elite academic schools are.

IDK where the cutoff is for "elite" but the premise is a bit idiotic. Especially naming Elon. Elon beat Duke not too long ago and finished in the Top 20 recently, UMass is another example, They lost to Boston College 22-5 this year but they beat Boston College in 2020 and have finished the season ranked in the Top 20 multiple times in recent years.

The whining about Duke is just nonsense, there are a lot of blowouts every year. There have been a many lopsided games already this year but we only seem to hear about Duke.

Can’t wait to catch that Duke Wofford game tomorrow. Should be a real barn burner. Another chance to inflate some stats

I'm looking forward to Jacksonville vs UNC on Sunday. While I think UNC will prove to be too much overall, I do like how much Jacksonville has improved as a team. They really should have beaten USC.

I would say could have, not should have... Although Jacksonville will most likely win their conference, games like that are very important when it comes to getting an at large bid. Quality wins (as the NCAA defines them) wins vs Top 5 RPI, Top 10 RPI, Top 20 RPI (at least on the mens side) not sure criteria for women. Looking at last year RPI, USC would have a QW vs Top 20 RPI Team as Jacksonville was # 16 in RPI.

RPI and the Polls are not always the same.

Fair point, but keep in mind Jacksonville had the lead for a good while, but started to lose out on the ground ball game in the second half. Absolutely a winnable game. It's good to see USC finding some success, as they just haven't been the USC of old for a while.

Notre Dame has been a big disappointment for me.

Virginia is currently 2 - 5 and they are probably better than 110 Teams. Perfect example of why a teams record is not an indication of how a team stacks up in women's DI lacrosse.

Nice win over Va Tech for Liberty!!

Charlotte North was awful on the draws today and should have been benched from that position

Just looking over what actually took place over the Timeline that you went with, the last 5 full seasons of play I wold say Stony Brook should actually be more like 15 based on their performance and results. Your post caused me to look at a few things, your post and the fact that Stony Brook actually moved up in the poll after week 1 even though they did not play seemed a little weird to me.

2016 , 2017, 2018, 2019, 2021 and YTD 2022 because the phenomenon is continuing.

Stony Brooks "Pre-season ranking", "end of regular season ranking" and "final season ranking" have not been justified in any way.

2016 Pre-season 8, regular season 7, final 8.
2017 Pre-season 6, regular season 4, final 4.
2018 Pre-season 2, regular season 1, final 5..
2019 Pre-season 5, regular season 15 final 12.
2021 Pre-season 6, regular season 5, final 5.
2022 Pre-season 6, current ranking 4.

During that time Stony Brook played 4 games vs Top 5 Teams and they are 0 - 4.
They are 3 - 8 vs Top 10 Teams with their best wins against #8 2x.
They have never made the Final Four yet somehow they ended up at 4 in one of the final rankings.

At some point, don't you have to actually win a game against a Top 5 team in order to be considered a top 5 team or be ranked in the Top 5?
One would think that in order to be considered Top 10 on a regular basis you would have to have a winning record vs Top 10 Teams.

Just looking at last year and this year, They are 0 - 4 vs Top 5 Teams. They had 1 win against a Top 20 team #14 Rutgers. 15 of their 19 games last year were against Teams outside the Top 20. I guess results do not matter

Make it make sense, please.

Can someone tell me the Poke check to the stick became legal in womens lacrosse. That is a check towards the body correct. All I am seeing is defenders reaching out and like checking or clawing at the bottom hand. Don’t mind it but didn’t know it was legal. But it looks like the butt end check is always called.

Oh just go away. How about give some credit to UVA players.

I was surprised by the numbers so I took a look. The above must only be looking at the regular season records.
Including post season Stony Brooks record is.

0 - 8 against Top 5
3 - 13 against Top 10

Not trying to pick on Stony Brook but their rankings over the years do not make sense. Facts are facts.

All very fair points. My reasoning for 10 was they did not really lose to teams ranked higher than that. 10-15 is fair, where they finished not so much.

Virginia is 2-3 with losses to BC, Maryland and Princeton.

Huge Virginia fan for how they approach their schedule. I think they make it to a 500 record. They will need to win 3 of the toss ups or upset UNC and/or Syracuse. I think they beat Virginia Tech, James Madison and Richmond and can definitely the other 3 as well.

PROJECTED LOSSES
Maryland (L)
Princeton (L)
BC (L)
UNC
Syracuse

PROJECTED WINS
Elon (W)
Cal (W)
Pitt
Louisville

TOSS UPS
Virginia Tech
James Madison
Richmond
Stanford
Duke
Notre Dame

Exactly, UVA dominated draws. Strange they kept CN in when she kept losing. Others wouldn’t get that slack

Circle play doesn’t count? Obviously you have an issue.

I think Notre Dame is in a much more difficult spot, I could see them easing the schedule in the future. Notre Dame will have to win 4 of their toss up games or upset Syracuse, UNC and/or BC. I do not see them making the NCAAs this season.

PROJECTED LOSSES
Michigan (L)
Vanderbilt (L)
Northwestern (L)
Syracuse
UNC
BC

PROJECTED WINS
Central Michigan (W)
Pitt
Louisville
Marquette

TOSS UPS
Jacksonville
Duke
Virginia
Virginia Tech
Yale
Duke

Apologies, they need to win four of the toss ups or have upsets.

I think that is the point. They have 3 losses, all to Top 10 Teams. There could be a team with a 5 - 0 record that is nowhere near the caliber of team that Virginia is.

No issues, I’m a fan of CN. Yesterday she was horrible on the draw and I was surprised she was left in. Was literally smoked almost every time. Anyone else would have been pulled.

Notre Dame goes 7-9 this year and misses the NCAA. Coach will be on the hot seat next year. ND has not been to a final 4 since 2006.

There have been a couple of interesting and eye opening posts regarding Virginia and Notre Dame and their chances of being .500. As we all know, a team must be at least .500 in order to be eligible for the NCAA Tournament. Many on here applaud programs/coaches that challenge their teams it is not difficult to see why the coaches at Duke may have changed their Tack. Every coach wants to make the NCAA Tournament but their are a limited number of at large bids to be had and the selection process does not always make sense or reward teams for playing a tough schedule. I watched Notre Dame play Northwestern and Virginia play Boston College to think that either UVA or ND might not get an at large bid is a little crazy, both are very good teams.

The 2019 season illustrates how playing challenging schedule can hurt a teams chances of an at large bid as well as negatively impact perception of the team as well as hurt the team in the polls.

I cringe as I write this but here we go, the can of worms is open again.... Take a look at the tale of two teams from 2019. Duke and you guessed it Stony Brook :-)

Stony Brook was ranked # 5 in preseason, Duke was a preseason # 24.

Stony Brook played 0 regular season games vs Top 5 opponents, Duke competed against 5 Top 5 opponents during the regular season (duke went 0-5).
Stony Brook played 2 regular season games vs Top 10 opponents (0-2), Duke played 8 Top 10 teams (1-7) with a win over #9.
Stony Brook played 5 regular season games vs Top 20 teams (2-3) wins over #17 & #19. Duke played 9 Top 20 opponents during the regular season (1 - 8) lone win #9.

Duke had no losses to teams outside the Top 20, Stony Brook had 1 loss to a team not ranked in the Top 20.

Stony Brook finished the regular season ranked 15th.
Duke finished the regular season ranked 16th.

Stony Brook won the AE and was awarded the AQ to the NCAA Tournament.
Duke did not win the ACC and Duke did not receive an At Large Bid to the Tournament.

Stony Brook won 1 Tournament game.

Stony Brook moved up and finished #12 in the Final poll.
Duke did not play a tournament game and dropped in the Final Poll from # 16 to # 21 (out of the Top 20).

Dukes regular season schedule was significantly more difficult and obviously it hurt the Blue Devils.

Playing a less competitive schedule and racking up wins while players pad stats does appear to help the coach, the program and the players in terms of recognition, ranking, tournament etc...

The following year, 2020...

Stony Brook had a preseason ranking of # 5.
Duke was ranked preseason at # 18.

Draw your own conclusions as to why Duke and possibly other programs that compete in very competitive conferences may look to ease up on their non conference games.

Florida vs Maryland and Notre Dame vs Syracuse should be interest this weekend. Is this a must win game for Notre Dame?
Stanford at Virginia, has to be a must win for UVA.

Libery, Liberty, liiiberrrrtyyy .... Great win for the Flames!!
Who will have the next big upset?

The one unknown for 2019, would Stony Brook have received an at-large bid if they were not an AQ? As for the rest of it, I am a fan of Duke's opponent every game for this season. They will get enough wins to meet the 500 record requirement, but that does not guarantee them an at large bid. If would be justice from my perspective if they do not register a top 20 win. It is possible they loss to BC, UNC, Syracuse, Penn and Virginia. Appears Virginia Tech and ND both might slip out of the top 20. ND still has a chance to beat them as well. If those scenarios happen, the selection committee should leave Duke out based on their schedule and not having any top 20 wins. Does Duke finally get back to the form they showed in 2015 and beat several top 10 teams in the same season, time will tell.

Considering the committee left them hanging with a Top 10 win I am sure that they will be left out with no top 20 wins.

ND is not good. They are always hyped up because they are ND. While Duke maybe good the OOC schedule they play is embarrassing. They also pad the stats of the starting studs.

Not true, obvious even ignorant all at the same time.

Richmond with a nice win over State.

Stanford

Maryland looks like the team to beat.

Nah, I will still take UNC but will say they do not look nearly as dominant as they did early last season which may be a good thing for them this season. Maryland will get the hype as they do not really play any of the top 5 teams but will run into one of them in the NCAA tournament and like NW last year they will lose in a marginally competitive game. You can all bash ND but they are still a borderline top 10 team . Couple of unrelated observations; I watched the mens UVA vs Cuse lax game and found it interesting in a game that got pretty chippy at times the men's UVA team let the shot clock expire on several of their possessions in the 4th quarter after it was clear the game was over. With some of the talk about these teams running up the scores maybe taking note of the teams that seem to have good sportsmanship is the way to go.
Way to early Tewaaraton watch, sorry to the CN crazies but right now the best attack player player is Tyrel(cuse) ,the best middy is Mastrianni(unc), the best defender is Trenchard9UNC) and no idea about goalie .

Syracuse not Top 5, Stony Brook Not Top 5... Long Season we will see who finishes the year Top 5, 10, 15, 20. Final Four unless seeding has them play before the final four Maryland, UNC, BC and ???

Virginia and ND both probably a little higher than their ranking. Not sure Duke is Top 10. Loyola did not look very good vs Towson who is struggling. Is Michigan for real? Maybe. Northwestern will be in the mix come Tournament time. Transfers making an impact for MD, Terp's look very good. Princeton looks like the only Ivy that came back ready to play, maybe Penn will pick it up after close loss to Hopkins, two years is a long time off. Denver quietly looking to crack the Top 10. Can Florida turn it around vs Stony Brook this week? That game should be telling, is it a must will for Stony Brook? They do not have many other opportunities to get quality wins. Can Rutgers, Drexel, Vandi, Richmond, USC and Jacksonville hang around all year?

Crazy to think that UVA and ND could possibly not make the Tournament.

What is the deal this year with the NCAA tournament?

How many AQ's and how many at large bids for 2022?

Also if anyone knows what is the minimum win percentage a team needs to be considered for an at large bid , is it .500 or over .500.

Stick checks to the body and clawing with checks towards the body is out of control in womens lacrosse. Just remove the rule check towards the body as a rule Us lacrosse so I no one has to worry about . Also so it can be done on both ends of the field. Offense, defense , rides etc…

ND doesn’t deserve to make tournament. Shocked that people still think they are a top team.

Syracuse at Northwestern today 4:00pm should be a good game. Northwestern 17 - 14.

Such an ignorant statement, why would you say that? They have played 5 games. What teams do you believe are stronger than Notre Dame that are not ranked?

26 teams make the tournament only way ND doesn’t make it is if they are under 500 IMO

Where did you get “26 Teams make the Tournament”?

2019 Bracket. 26 Teams:
https://www.ncaa.com/brackets/lacrosse-women/d1/2019

2021 Bracket 29 Teams (if my counting is correct) - Not sure if the extra teams were due to Covid or not:
https://www.ncaa.com/brackets/lacrosse-women/d1/2021

I'd guess 2022 will have a minimum of 26 teams, but don't know for a fact.

Women’s Division I Poll 2-28-2022

Rank Institution Points (FPV) Last Poll

1 Boston College (5 - 0) 600 (24) 1
2 North Carolina (5 - 0) 572 2
3 Syracuse (4 - 0) 552 3
4 Maryland (3 - 0) 511 5
5 Stony Brook (1 - 1) 506 4
6 Northwestern (3 - 1) 478 6
7 Duke (5 - 0) 422 8
8 Michigan (5 - 0) 420 10
9 Loyola (2 - 0) 393 9
10 Princeton (2 - 0) 392 11
11 Florida (1 - 2) 354 7
12 Denver (4 - 0) 352 12
13 Virginia (3 - 3) 305 13
14 Rutgers (4 - 0) 284 14
15 Drexel (3 - 0) 237 15
16 Notre Dame (1 - 4) 174 17
16 Vanderbilt (3 - 0) 174 22
18 Temple (3 - 1) 160 20
19 USC (3 - 0) 139 23
20 Johns Hopkins (2 - 1) 138 24
21 James Madison (2 - 2) 131 18
22 Jacksonville (2 - 2) 121 21
23 Richmond (4 - 0) 90 NR
24 Penn (1 - 1) 84 19
25 Stanford (1 - 4) 55 16
RV Colorado, UConn, UMass, Penn State, Arizona State

Agree, minimum of 26 but very difficult to find updated info... The NCAA website only has info on the 2021 Tournament. With new programs being added every year and new conferences being formed and teams moving conferences it's tough to know how The 2022 Tournament will be run.

How many teams?
How many Automatic Bids?
How many at large bids?