Information, discussions, and questions covering the teams, clubs, and players in the Girls 2015 age group can be posted here.

News from the Long Island Wave 2015 group : The 2015 team ended at the Best of the Beach with a 2-2 record. Good under most circumstances but below the expectations of its players and coaches. This team continues to show signs of breaking out since they are a superior team from top to bottom with fabulous coaching supplied by Diana and Lauren Lopez. Overall the team sported an 11-9 record. They only had a loosing record at one tournament, the Club Nationals, where they went 1-3. At the Upper Atlantic they just missed the playoffs with a 3-1 record. Hopefully this team will return in tack for the 2012 summer season as they did this last one. If they do the team will have a big 2012 season because they are one of the best teams the Wave has fielded at this level. If what happened to the Wave teams that preceded them, in the third season of playing together, happens to the 2015's then the 2012 season will be the break out season all connected to this team expect.

News from Team Elevate on their Girls 2015 program : Congratulations to their 2014/2015 group for making the semifinals of the Long Island LaxFest at Framingdale State College.

News from Team 91 Covering their Girls 2015 (Rising Freshman) Program : Congratulations for winning the 2011 Upper Atlantic Tournament (Orange team).

What tournaments did they attend. National Draw is one of the most competative. I would expect a breakout team to do well there.

+
What is the purpose of this post? are you trying to drum up business or are you putting the other 2015 teams on notice? Why don't you play the the yellow jacket 2015 team to see how ready you are for a breakout season! Just play in the competitve tournaments first. you people are hysterical! This can't be an adult!

Rule number one : Do not call out a board moderator. Rule number two : Become a registered poster if you want a voice.

This had nothing to do with drumming up business. BOTC is starting age group based threads as opposed to exclusively club based threads and we are publishing news from around Long Island on an age group basis.

BOTC Industries is completely amazed at the outright arrogance from some readers. If the Yellow Jackets 2015 group would like to add their thoughts to this thread, BOTC would welcome that input. However, that does not diminish the contributions made by any other club on Long Island - whether self-posted or posted via a moderator.

Do you really want to have the discussion about who is being the adult here? You do realize that BOTC is sharing the Long Island Wave end-of-season summary here, right? Think about it.

Interesting that the Beach Bums only go until the 8th grade (2016). Does anyone know if they are strictly focused on "intramural" development and leave the college recruiting to another organization?

The Liberty actually list their 2015 team achievements as including the Beach Bums summer tournament.

"Congratulations to the 2015 Black Team — LI Lax Fest Champions and LI Beach Bums Champions"

I have heard they do plan to continue as the current teams age. Beach Bums, that is.

Why not "question" a moderator? (who knew you were a moderator anyway?) No one is arrogant. I have no affiliation to YJ 2015. I just know they are a great team. Furthermore if you are going to post unbias information maybe you should not label a team "superior"! If you are just reposting information from somewhere, then I apologize. It just seems that many posters here use these forums just to pound their chest about their own kids teams. It is unfortunate because there has been some valuable information on this site. It just seems that you have to sift through 10 self serving posts to get to one. Either way I feel the site serves a good purpose. As far as being anonymous, I don't think that being identified by "cage sage", laxer dad or any other nickname gives you any less anonymity!

You have no affiliation to the Yellow Jackets? Seriously - that is what you want u to believe. Come on - you got caught by the moderator, now go sit in the corner with your "dunce" cap on and have a nice timeout.

Well said, I totally agree..
Signed Anonymous

The post clearly said "News from the Long Island Wave 2015 group." Like someone said, why diminish the accomplishments of other teams...kids for goodness sakes? It's info that is on their website and there is nothing wrong with a club to be proud of the girls on their teams.

I'd hardly call those tournaments obscure.

Yellow Jackets Results

2015 Blue : Lax for the Cure Champions, National Draw Champions, Lax Inception Champions, Ocean City Beach Lax Champions, U15 National Champions

2015 Red : National Draw Cleveland Division Champions

2015 Gold : Ocean City Beach Lax Finalists

Yawn. Go beat that drum on the YJ thread.

no beating of drum just simple truth

And your point is what? That the only worthy club is YJ?

powder, how come any team can come on and put up some of their stats and you have no problem with it but when a yj fan/parent puts up some of their stats you act like a child.

Really, that other team can brag about their 11 an 9 record!! and when the yj's talk about their accomplishments then its a problem. Any other club can come on and talk about their record too. Isn't this thread here to educate people. There are a lot of clubs out there and seeing the records and accomplishments of other clubs can inform people who want to join or switch clubs. By reacting the way you do its kind of petty. Be interested to hear who your daughter plays for??

Maybe I misunderstood. I took the YJ stats post as an attempt to show that only YJ goes to "worthy" tournaments, therefore any other clubs that post winning records should not be touting their wins as they were less "worthy."

Purely posting the stats is fine. Trying to imply that the other teams aren't really competitors because they don't go to all the tournaments YJ attend, that's what rubbed me wrong, and if I was wrong, mea culpa.

So are you saying the tounaments themselves don't matter?

I think powderfinger is a top gun perhaps?

I am now (or rather, my daughter is). LOL But I wasn't when I wrote last night's post.

Since winning and level of tournaments doesn't seem to matter that's a good place to be.

Huh?

how come YJ kids are going to topguns but no topguns kids are going to YJ???

yj has not had tryouts yet. Tg players could come to those tryouts also. Plus yj is more competetive, field better teams overall. Some kids don't get as mush playing time maybe or they think they will make a high team. Don't forget a lot of yj age groups field 3 or 4 teams.

My guess as to why girls are going from yj to tg but not so much in the other direction
1) More girls overall play yj so they have more to lose so to speak
2) Top level of yj is more competitive to make then top level teams of TG so many parents would rather have their kids play so called "A" team for top guns then play "B" level for yj
3)TG are doing a better and more aggressive job of recriuting kids from other clubs
4)Shannon Smith

1) True
2) True
3) Def helps to have try-outs earlier but loyal YJ players will not jump ship
4) Shannon Smith: Great player, great at teaching skills but did a bad job at U-15 Nationals her most important challenge to date. Not a successful tourney record 2011 also. Had to be disappointing. Bottom line the majority of "best" players probably will stay with YJ for the next few years. Her best hope is to grab the young (3rd - 5th grade) players for the future of her program

BOTC completely disagrees with your assessment of the U/15 Nationals and Shannon Smith's coaching. Specifically, BOTC believes that she did an exceptional job at the U/15 Nationals. Let's give some specifics based on FACTS of the tournament rather than feelings:

• Fact #1 : Top Guns made the National Final Four which was an achievement to start.
• Fact #2 : After trailing early, solid play and coaching brought the match for third place level at 5-5 coming to the half.
• Fact #3 : Adjustments made at halftime paid immediate dividends with Top Guns opening a 8-5 lead three minutes into the second half.
• Fact #4 : After falling behind again 10-9, Smith rallied her team with a well timed time-out leading to the equalizer with just 36 seconds remaining.
• Fact #5 : The free position ball with less than a second was netted but waived off (appropriately) by the referee crew.
• Fact #6 : Both teams traded opportunities throughout the overtime

Here's the point : a coach's number one job is to get their team into a position to win in every single match. Whether the team wins or loses can be the result of dozens of facts from players to yes, coaching. BOTC believes that Coach Smith did an exceptional job to meet the challenge.

If you doubt our sourcing, BOTC live blogged this event at the following link :

http://www.backofthecage.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=806&page=21

That was a well thought out. logical assessment. But the bottom line: She didn't beat the Yellow Jacket team, didnt come in 2nd, or 3rd but 4th. If you think thats a good job I bet she doesnt. Do you think she would be happy for her Northwestern team to come in 4th. Doubt it.

There is a difference between doing a bad job as a coach and being disappointed with the results of your team in a semifinal/final playoff. Disappointed with the results? Sure, competitors like Shannon would be. Bad job as a coach? Not at all. The poster to whom I responded assessed the performance as "bad coaching".

Now, if you want to look at this discussion through a results prism, the semifinal loss was to the better team and one could argue that the match would have been better suited for a finals. That said, the Maryland side that took the bronze was a quality team all season and got the bounce in overtime.

To make the point crystal clear, Points #3, #4, and #5 show why we thought Coach Smith did an excellent job.

She made adjustments that exploited the opponent after the halftime break (3), rallied her team from a losing position into a tie heading for overtime with a well positioned coaching timeout (4), and managed to position her team with a chance to win at the buzzer (5).

Getting your team in a position to win in championship rounds is everything in coaching. She absolutely passed that test.

Note also that experience and seasoning will come with time - one of the solid adjustments made in the U/15 National Championship Game was made by Coach Carol Rose where experience showed. During our live blogging, we wrote the following :

...Rose and the team are going for lower shots - want more bounce shots to challenge the talented Stars Gold keeper. Yellow Jackets equalize on just that type of shot moving the score to 2-2 with less than six remaining. Convert immediately again for a 3-2 advantage with 5:30 remaining. Goals by Pirreca and Mitchell put the Jackets on the lead.

Now, there are twenty years of coaching experience that divide Coach Rose and Coach Smith and we are certainly not comparing coaching credentials as yet. However, one would be foolish not to think that Coach Smith could be one of the best coaching resources for the region since Coach Rose.

i coach 3rd grade girls for 2 years now, and i know to tell the girls to shoot low. if thats all coach rose told them, oh boy

" one could argue
that the match would have been better suited for a finals."
Not sure what that means .

BOTC had taken one line from the full blogging report to make our point. To explain the actual game situation, the feeling was that the Stars keeper was more vulnerable up high but once the game was being played, it was felt that bounce shots were the better approach based on what was being seen on the field. In summary, the instructions and adjustments made for a third grade group and a U/15 squad might use the same words, but the execution is very different.

Exactly what is the problem here? Our assertion is that a Top Guns/Yellow Jackets national championship game (as opposed to being on the same side of the bracket) would have been a very compelling final.

The Stars team was a better team than the Top gun team. Although I do think the Top Guns could have beat Top of the Bay. If I remenber correctly the Stars team beat Top of the Bay easily.

Correct - it is very possible that the final results were an accurate represnetation of the top four teams. Again, the conversation started with a coaching discussion more so than the team placements.

"Exactly what is the problem here? Our assertion is that a Top Guns/Yellow Jackets national championship game (as opposed to being on the same side of the bracket) would have been a very compelling final. "
Your answer to my statement is the problem, top guns took 4th your answer seems to assert if they had been on the other side of the bracket they would have made it to the finals discounting the performance of the 2 and 3 place teams

If you are saying a top gun/YJ final would have been exciting your crazy. I would not have even been close, YJ is a far far superior team at that level. Oh, I'm not a YJ parent!

Totally disagree, Top Guns would have beat them. I have seen both teams play. And I am not a Top Guns parent.

I disagree with your statement while the YJ were definately the better team the YJ brought up all their better players which Top Guns did not. Top Guns did not play to their full potential and in the end they got beat fair and square. YJ deserved to win that game and yes I am a Top Guns parent and was at the game.

So are you saying that both TG and YJ don't have all their better players on their top teams?

The National Championship teams rosters rules are based on birthdates (like soccer), not graduation years (as most other lax tournaments usually are). If you look at back posts from the Championship game, YJ had top players from 2014 team and 2015 team playing (won't mention names...). TG may not have done the same and kept w/ their 2015 team....

so are you saying that the players that top gun brought up, at leat 2 were not their best players? Why did they play so much? Bottom line, yj had 2 lines of almost equal talent and top gun ran out of gas about two thirds of game. Score would have been a blow out if yj was a little more accurate during first ten minutes of game. Really, there was no real competition at the entire tournament as is evidenced by the scores of the games that yj participated. Top gun game them at least somewhat of a game if not a real challenge. Better shot placement and that game would have been a blow out too.

<Editted player reference> isn't one of the better 2015's????? Stop with the excuses. You lost to a better team! It wasn't close!

If that is true than the TG teams should consistantly beat the YJ teams at the 2014 and 2015 level! That didn't happen. The TG teams are competitive, the kids are good players. Why is it so hard to accept that those Yellow Jacket teams are just better right now. It is not a big deal! You just make yourself look so childish and petty! No need for excuses!

top gun brough their 2014 team and a few players from 2015 team

"Totally disagree, Top Guns would have beat them. I have seen both teams play. And I am not a Top Guns parent."

I actually agree you must not be a TG parent because then you would know that they did play and YJ beat them .TG took 4th so to say that they would have beat them is silly

You need to get a grip. The YJ 2015 is so superior I don't think it would really be a competition. I find it interesting that the TG teams don't win any major tournaments but yet they still think they are the best. Oh right, how can they win if the YJ win them all! Get a grip. It would be so much less obnoxious if you just admitted your not 1st on LI but 2nd, or maybe 3rd.

new- poster....As a Top gun parent I would probably agree with that assessment(TG's #2 -#3). Not to take anything away from the YJ teams and program, they have pretty much been the dominate program for many years now. When my daughter first joined TG's I was really not sure what to expect from this club since it was brand new, untested and unproven. Certainly wasn't expecting them to be so competative so soon, it was a gamble that paid off very well. Is it the powerhouse program that YJ's is? (talking program and not specifically 2015 here).Last year, not quite. This year, maybe, hopefully, especially with all the new players from try-outs. Even if it takes another year or two, I'm quite certain they will be neck and neck with the YJ's quite soon, like I said they rose way past my expectations so soon, so who knows. It's funny to see all the parents bickering who is better, if that's what gets you going, have at it. All I'll say is that they are both very good programs, so whoever your daughter plays for, good luck.

They will never be neck and neck with 2015 blue. That team has 100 wins already, no losses.

2015 yj blue,2016 yj blue , 2017yj blue,2018yj. The top gun teams at these age levels cannot compete against these teams as of yet.The 2016 tg teams is at best the 4th best team on the island.That being said I think TG is going to make some noise after these age groups in that I think they are doing a better job recruiting the young kids.Only time will tell.

I guess we will see

Exactly, can you really expect any club to slap together a team in a year or two and take down a yellow jacket team that has been together for years and years (amassing over 100 games-2017 reference), which is especially more the case for the older teams. It's suprising the TG teams are competitive at all (yet they are). But I agree, give the younger teams time to develope and they will be neck and neck. And that's what you should want as a parent no matter what club your daughter plays for. A CHOICE. A choice to play for whatever competitive club you want.

2015 not 2017 reference, sorry

regarding the 2016 age group, who is in your top 4??
#1 Yellow Jackets
#2
#3
#4 TopGuns

I agree, choice is good. I'm a YJ parent and I do hope that TG is successful in getting better each year. Seems to me that it is still somewhat "regionial" and that has hurt clubs like express and Liberty. Boards like this may help to increase the interest and create a more competitive environment. Competion helps everyone.

100 wins???? Has the team been playing since pre-K????

2016 top teams on LI in no particular order would be express, suffolk county all-stars,yellow-jackets,the team based out of wantagh(not sure of their travel team name)and I would put yj gold above tg at this time in my opinion.

2016 allstars beat YJ blue twice already.I beleive they should be considered the best on LI at that age

News for the 2015 age group from Mid-Atlantic Tournament : Top Guns 2015 Purple defeats Diamonds 2015, 9-4, in opening game. Top Guns 2015 Black win handily, 11-1, over Jets Black 2015 in their first game.

Top Guns 2015 Purple do not advance despite the 4W-0L-0T record - they lose the tie-breaker to Skywalkers 2015 Blue who also ran the bracket. Tough break scheduling-wise that these two did not get the chance to meet for the spot. Skywalkers had a +45 differential; +24 for the Top Guns.

Being a Liberty parent ,I have to say that I don't Think that TG has done any damage to Liberty, But has devastated 91. and hurt express on a much lesser scale . 2015 YJ blue is the best team on long island bar none, sorry TG parents wishful thinking doesn't make it so. And before you go off the rails , TG and Liberty have not played yet so let them play before you start sticking you chest out and speculate how much better TG is than Liberty. Remember your program is new , and though you have done well , you still have a way to go Good luck to all your daughters

Didn't mean that TG has hurt Liberty, but rather that being regional (heavy on Manhasset and not much away from north shore of Nassau county)limits them.

It is a shame that YJs, Liberty, Express and Team 91 were all not at the tournament. I would like to have seen them play against each other.

Even in the age groups where there was more Long Island representation, the Long Island teams are generally split apart during the group play phase. You only get to see the teams play each other in the knock-out rounds and that is only if every team manages to get through the group play stage. Even an undefeated record (one Top Guns team this weekend) is sometimes not enough to get through the brackets. So, it is mostly skill and teamwork, but an element of luck is also involved.

I NEVER want to see Long Island teams playing each other after a 5 hour drive onth NJ Turnpike. Even in the bracket rounds I'd rather go home early and meet up somewhere later. What would be nice is to see all of them playing on LI.

Agreed. Nothing pisses off the parents more than driving through traffic, paying tolls and travel expenses, and then finding out you're playing teams from LI.

i would say that was true if liberty had a big showing of girls from the babylon, islip area before but since that was not true before I don't see how it hurts them. if anything the Mineola, Carl Place new hyde park girls have gone to other smaller start ups Park lax Togsz etc. TG really hurt 91 girls (mostly because 91 does not care about the girls program) and ended South bay where I know at least 15 girls from 2 teams came from.(and yes I know tom carro took all the girls from a team to carol Rose and started YJ east

Yes, it is fun to face non-local teams, but if you never face the local competition, does it really matter?

The "pissed-off-parent" picture works in the youth soccer world, Powderfinger, because the Long Island teams will regularly face each other in league play and other local tournaments. Think of how many teams support East Meadow's Ref-Fuel or Albertson/Riley's National Elite Showcase. The money flows on Long Island and the competition, at least in these events, remains local and strong.

In the lacrosse world, particularly on the girls side, you can likely count on one hand the number of Long Island matches that have taken place on Long Island this year between the Yellow Jackets, Liberty, Top Guns and a few select others - and that is including all age groups.

Partially due to the lack of an organizing league or structure, patronizing another club's tournament is seen as building up that other club at your own expense. Hopefully, that climate will change over time. Goodness knows that BOTC made calls to try and change the landscape for the Elite Showcase this summer to no avail - despite it being the top girls recruitment tool in our own backyard. Perhaps, the ground will be more fertile next year - we can hope.

It remains disappointing that we do not see more "Long Island Derbies" and a more united "Long Island" force when the teams head off the Island.

I agree that YJ 2015 is a very good team. Having said that , the times they are a changing. Parents are losing faith in a rigid "win at all cost" program that disparages the players who can't produce. And by the way, How much money is there in running 3 or 4 teams per age group???? If it is really about the kids then why are parents secretly trying to get out of YJ without being blackballed by the YJ leadership?

Point taken, CageSage. I hadn't thought of it in that perspective. There's still no denying the grumbling on the sidelines though,

True, though, that it would be great for LI Lax if there were local tournaments attended by the local clubs. Refresh my memory, what happened with the Elite tournament? Why was it not well attended?

How do you make this statement? Is there any validity to it. State some facts??

For LI teams to play LI teams on Long Island just doesn't work. What is there to win, only lose. So one LI team loses to another LI tam, them all the parents want to take their daughters to the "winning program". They write it up in back of the cage saying our program is better than yours. Play a tournament in Maryland and there is nothing to lose. It's all about the money

The Elite Showcase was well attended on the coaching side (approximately 25 institutions represented) and the team count (approximately 75-80 teams) was below the total capacity by a slight amount. The Yellow Jackets teams accounted for about 25 of the total teams.

The Long Island teams (non-Yellow Jackets) that attended included these : Long Island Raiders, Long Island Express, Smithtown, Team 91, Huntington, Nor'Easter, Hauppauge, Premier, Farmingdale, and Long Island Pride. Even with these clubs, the number of attending teams were limited.

Our point is that teams like the Long Island Liberty and Top Guns to name two just chose not to attend. Our question is why would these franchises not attend this showcase opportunity? When BOTC made personal calls, we were told that the money was only helping the Yellow Jackets program, the attending coaches were not of interest, the tournament was "too expensive", and that the clubs had other plans.

The fact remains that the off-Island representation at our own home town recruiting event was stronger than the local support. For a full listing of the teams involved, access the following link : Long Island Elite Showcase Schedule (PDF Format)

BOTC has to agree that the original poster brings an agenda to this thread that seems misplaced. We do not understand the "losing faith" or "blackballed" comments. On the one hand, the post talks about a lack of faith, yet then discusses the program's reach. What does it mean to be blackballed by a program in which you have no faith?

I didn't see any college coaches there.
I think your numbers on teams are about right. The LI clubs that did send teams sent very limited numbers of teams, not their whole clubs.

I have no personal knowledge but I can imagine that the price of the tournament is probably a legit gripe.

I feel like the 25 minute mini-game format hurts them and that the late season date hurts them.

Whether it's the above reasons, personal animosity or something else entirely, the fact remains that this tournament used to be MUCH better. With lots of clubs from upstate, New England, Jersey and Maryland as well as the full clubs on LI. Hopefully it will get better again.

Who runs the Elite Showcase?

The Yellow Jackets organization.

thats why the numbers are down

Disagree. Where else are the long island teams suppossed to play each other? There really are no tournaments to speak of on long island, so if it were not for these out of state, or at least off of long island tournaments, LI teams would never get to play one another. I think it's nice that most tournaments try to limit playing next door teams in the pool play. LI geographically just can't handle the space needed for these moster tournament, feilds, parking, hotels etc.... And if you want to try to compare the elite showcase to one of the big tournaments, don't waste your time. Plus the fact that none of the long island teams want to further fund the yj organization.

I see they had 75-80 teams in the tourney. The Numbers were not down very much at all. That tourney has never been that big. Maybe 90 at the most. What are you talking about? They have a big draw from Ct. They obviously dont need the LI teams to play.

Another Ignorant Statement very Classy!!

The college coaches love them!! Get a grip they recruit all their kids

I'll tell you what I heard. I did not experience this firsthand so consider it hearsay, but those who told me believed it. The feeling is that Carol Rose manipulates the schedules to favor YJ. If YJ is initially scheduled to play a tougher, more competitive team, then perhaps there is a schedule change so that team plays consecutive games so they don't reach the YJ teams fresh.

Is it true? I have no idea. But apparently the belief alone could be enough to keep clubs from the Elite tournament.

<now settling back to watch the fireworks>

Given the overall strength of Long Island's lacrosse programs collectively, Long Island must establish itself as a stronger recruiting foothold across numerous clubs; it will do this only if the Long Island clubs completely support these types of local recruiting events. While we agree that the Elite Tournament might not "need" Long Island teams in order to fill its book of available team slots, the tournament would undoubtedly be a more valuable "property" (for want of a better word) if unilateral support across Long Island's top programs was avaiable. After all, there is value in a college coach being able to see player X from the Yellow Jackets, player Y from the Top Guns, and player Z from the Liberty in a single weekend and single location.

Earlier, we used an analogy from the Girls Soccer world. Albertson (Fury) and Paul Riley's program have walked around with a bulls-eye on their backs for sometime - the strongest girls programs on the whole and the most revered and hated for that reason. However, when Paul formed the National Elite Showcase (Thanksgiving weekend) the top Long Island premier teams came out to support the tournament. Why? Simply stated, it was a great recruiting venue for the local soccer programs.

Every day that Long Island teams drive the five hours down I-95 to Maryland to showcase (and eventually play each other while funding the Maryland programs) is another indication that the Baltimore beltway is gaining strength as a national power for recruiting at Long Island's expense.

Looking at this situation through any one team's prism will not work. The view just has to be on a Long Island lacrosse basis. The market will shrink given the direction currently being followed, not grow.

The schedule file is attached. While BOTC has heard the "rumor", let's find the spot in the schedule whether the conspiracy theory holds. [BOTC has supplied the tools; we will leave it to the readers to undercover the "evidence". Quite frankly, the argument about "fixed" schedules just feels empty to us.]

At the end of the day, Powderfinger, we heard earlier that the complaint was that the 25-minute game format was a turn-off for some. Now, we are hearing that two back-to-back 25 minute games are being manipulated. Who knows? Maybe all of the conspiracy theories are correct. But, isn't being able to play two 25-minute "halves" with an inter-game break a reasonable request in the lacrosse world? Particularly for a showcase player?

The one point that is critical about your note is perception. The emotion is driven by perception. If BOTC could help smooth the ruffled-feathers, it would be worthwhile for the game. Clearly we are shining the light on the subject in an effort to bring about change - and if not change, at least enhance the dialogue.

The fact is the other LI programs are NOT STRONG enough as CLUBS to compete against the YJ teams as a whole. Yes they may win a few games here and there, but they will LOOSE more than they win. CLUB OWNERS dont want their parents to see this and thus they stay away from YJ as much as possible so they dont LOOSE MONEY. Its all about the MONEY. They not only AVOID YJ on LI, but they AVOID YJ by not entering in the same tourneys.

IF you think these club owners want to go head to head with YJ
your crazy. They may talk a good game, but NONE of them have the National Recognition yet they YJ has. Will they maybe. It depends how hard they want to work. Only time will tell.

The conspiracy schedule sounds far fetched. Club Owners who are ready to take on the YJ as a whole, because they feel they can compete, would not care about their assigned schedule. They think they will win no matter what schedule they received.

Maybe we can get directors of tourney to schedule longer games since that seams to be a legitimate complaint. May not be doable with a 1 day event with so many teams.

Instead of talking trash get your Club Owner to go KICK THEIR [lacrosse] on the field instead of avoiding them for NO REASON

Stop with the nonsense of setting teams up for failure , a couple years ago my daughters yj team played a year older 2015 yj blue and a year older top tg team, if that is setting them up for an easy tournament I must have missed something.This year they played something like 11 games in two days having to start some of the games man down because the other girls were coming from the previous game on the other side of the venue when they played in Delaware. Every year in every sport there are these conspiracy theories, I think some people just over think it.

first off, I am not surprised that conn. teams go to the elite tourney, doesn't carol have her hand in the ct. chargers, and i'm sure there are connections to other teams up there through the chargers. Understanding that there is a cost to running this event, couldn't carol find a worthy charity to donate the money to, and maybe even include the other directors in the choosing of such a charity. then it would be a little difficult for the other clubs to justify not attending. that is if they really wanted the best teams from the island to play on the island, If it is just to showcase YJ against not as competitive teams and make money because she did all work than hey , she deserves it, she works very hard. but i don't know if that would work either. carol must be angry at shannon, and i don't know why danielle and carol don't see eye to eye. personally i think it would be fantastic to see all the li teams go at each other on the island, it could only help island lacrosse

She tried that already lax for hope the same teams avoided YJ again.

From where did you get this information? Jeff Brameier is the Founder/Director of the Connnecticut Chargers lacrosse program. Please share the source of your information.

BOTC is missing this argument entirely.

Why does a Long Island lacrosse club like the Yellow Jackets that has the ability to attract a significant number of college coaches for their showcase need to turn over revenues to charity in order to attract other Long Island teams? The Yellow Jackets are sharing their recruiting contacts (colleges) by getting the coaches onto the Island. This is what completely baffles us here at BOTC.

The tournament cost is effectively multiple times cheaper than trying to get access to those same coaches off Long Island at another club's tournament. So, why does profit need to be turned over to charity for doing the work and then providing access to those coaches?

This is why BOTC comes off as a "Carol Rose" supporter when we are just trying to give a balanced view. Our guess is that the Yellow Jackets will play everyone and anyone that shows up. The results of any one showcase game will not determine the club's reputation, national standing, or recruitment of players.

Having spoken directly with Coach Rose on all of the Long Island relationships, we do not think that there is ill-will with Shannon Smith on any level, but there is a competitive aspect that does exist now for position in the marketplace. As for the Yellow Jackets/Liberty relationship, we can hand over heart say that principle participants maintain what can best be termed a cold relationship. Danielle and Carol were friends and teammates from years back - the genesis of the Liberty program is where the source of the rift can be found. Basically, the Liberty was not originally supposed to be based on Long Island.

We agree.

As a premier level or elite level coach, ducking any competition is a sign that the coach is not thinking about improving. When we were coaching, we looked forward to playing the number one team. We lost more often than we won, however when you lose to the best, you know that you are in second place and on the climb. Nothing better for an athlete than to present a clear challenge to raise their game. This is about coaching and inspiring your team.

Perhaps, but at least the thinking is proactive. What would it take to get the Elite Showcase to be a two-day event?

While we might not have said it the same way :-), we agree with the sentiment.

How about everyone else reading this 2015 thread thinking about showcasing? What is your view? The discussion has been lively and informative.

Cage Sage - I have read many of your posts and you definitely come off as a Carol Rose/YJ supporter. That is very easy to see.

Carol was the first to the market with the YJ's and she built a great program, anyone who would say differently is full of it. She clearly has the numbers which is a huge advantage. However, she also has a win at all cost mentality.

You seem fairly new to the whole girl's lacrosse club scene and you seem a little naive. Why can't we all get along? You don't know history. Carol's own coaches are scared of her. They might not admit it publicly, but they are.

You claim she has no problem with Shannon starting the TG's - you are out of your mind. You have no idea what she has done behind the scenes to bad mouth Shannon and her father. She has made some pretty outlandish comments. If she treats her former players this way, how do you think she treats opposing team or clubs from LI.

It's not that other LI clubs don't want to play in their tournament because of talent of the YJ's or fear, it's because they don't want to help her financially.

The YJ's are the top program on LI right now. In a few years from now - maybe not.

My daughter's non-yj team played in this tournament. I think many of the yellow jacket teams participated, and that is alot of teams. I don't know the numbers but it certainly felt like every field had a yj team on it, they certainly made up the bulk of organizations represented in this tournament. We didn't know going in that this tournament was basically run by yj's, but it is apparent now. The "in thing" with lax tournaments these days seems to be incorporating a charity theme, which this one had. This one benefitted the fight against breast cancer, and it is good to see money being collected and donated to a good cause. The tournament sponsors asked each player to raise I think $100 or more to donate, which my daughter was very excited and happy to do. Do not know if a portion of the tournaments proceeds were also donated, you would hope so. But anyway back to the response, you are right the other long island teams saw what I did not, that this was a yj sponsored event and stayed away from it. Yet it was still a good excuse to play some fall ball and in the end, it supported a good cause. I think if you want to get all the other long island teams to compete at a LI based tournament, it can't be sponsored by one of the clubs, there seems to be too much ill will there, especially towards YJ's. And I don't think there is anywhere on LI that you could pull off a real tournament like they do in PA, NJ and MD. So if it can't be done right, why even bother other than to keep the sticks in the girl’s hands. And that is what this tournament was, 7 vs. 7, tiny fields, short half, one day... whatever. A chance to get a stick in the girl's hands. But a far cry from a real tournament.

I agree with Cage Sage.Despite what Carol R. may say I have heard that she has relentlessly badmouthed a wonderful and exceptionally talented youg role model, Shannon, and her father. Now in truth Shannon is too classy to say this, and for me it is only third hand but my sense, as I go to tournaments and watch how various people conduct their business, I'm inclined to lean towards some truth in this. I can certainly see why CR might feel that Shannon owes her, as the Yellow Jackets were a big part of her own development. But it seems to me that we should celebrate having such a talent come back and spread her own wings, bringing her own signature into the development of lacrosse here on the Island. Just my opinion.

I hope that some day we can find a way to have a TRUE cooperative effort in running a Long Island Tournament. Heh I could pass on seing the NJ Turnpike. However, I suspect that as long as it is a Yellow Jackets only gig, it will always carry some bad vibes for some of our local programs.

BOTC seems pretty levelheaded so it may fall to an independent "Commissioner" liike you to pull this off. Best of Luck with that! I'll volunteer if it is a Long Island "Team" effort.

Tournaments are money makers, regardless of the sport. Clubs host tournaments to raise funds. No shame in that. I just think that it is unreasonable to expect clubs to work together to put on a LI festival, too many chiefs, not enough indians in that. Now, if lax ever got a LI governin body, maybe that organization could put something together...

Secondly, has anyone seen the fields in Brentwood adjacent to SCCC West? Huge fields. I've been there for soccer, not sure who owns them, but that seems like a great location to host a lax tournament. It's close enough to the LIE for hotels, too. Lord knows we all stay at hotels a good distance from all our out-of-state tournaments.

Just my two cents, your mileage may vary.

As a current YJ coach the statement regarding the coaches being afraid of her is completly ridiculous!! Sad you had to make that up.

I totally agree with most of this post. I have herd of the Danielle ,Carol feud over liberty being started on the island, I don't see the problem with danielle starting a program here ,I didn't know Carol owned Long Island, I believe Carol played earlier for Manhassett than Danielle , and that there is a little jealousy over how well Danielle fared . I also can understand Carol could be upset over losing most Manhassett players to Danielle, Manhassett has been a lax powerhouse for decades , and what team would not want that talent pool to choose from. But why should Danielle give up her own players to Carol,I think it was well within her rights to start a program based where she coaches a varsity team. as far as getting college coaches go Danielle had a small tourney up at Manhassett where at the end of the day Syracuse , Fairfield and Stony Brook , all played each other,so obviously Danielle has no problem contacting D1 coaches and, I noticed that Carol Rose was also there.And personally , if I were Carol Rose I'd be pissed at Shannon a little bit too, I went to TG tryouts and there were a bunch of YJ defects there. That being said Shannon also has every right to start a program here too.

Maybe if a charitable organization that has no ties to any one club decided to put together a long island championship the various clubs would support it. Seems it would be a win for all involved.Would prefer it to be a championship format. That being said I have yet to see this win at all costs mentality on any yj team .My daughter played for yj in the past switched to another club then back again and I have seen little difference in the attitudes toward winning between clubs.

CR does not care about any of them. She has over 26 teams. Who really cares. She will retire soon and move away from this garbage.

I have seen this firsthand on a number of occasions and it is absolutely NOT made up.

From the looks of coaching staff it has been one of the most consistant staffs around. Not much turnover from year to year. That says it all!

So your saying CR has a right to be pissed at Shannon because some girls may decide to switch teams? That is crazy talk, if she is to be pissed at anyone, it should be at players for leaving, and you can't even get mad at that. All these other program have every right to start up and operate where ever and however they want, if a control freak can't handle that, too bad. I think its great for they girls to have options to play on various competitive teams. The more competitive clubs that spring up, the better. And that's what we are seeing here.

Given the number of new clubs that have sprung up, one would have to assume that unhappy trainers and coaching staff members would have jumped shipped to catch on with other emerging programs. With new programs come many new opportunities - call it the "internet" expansion of youth lacrosse! If that "jumping ship" has not taken place with this fertile ground, you would have to think that the trainers are not that unhappy at all. We agree that the stability in the staffing does speak volumes.

It all depends on how the owners directors went about starting their own clubs. I have heard of directors who were coaches /directers for one club who had access to that clubs e-mail lists etc. and took these lists to use for contacting existing players about going to a new club. I would see how there might be some hard feelings in that case.Although everyone has the right to go out on their own.

Don't know if i really have a problem with this either. So you have a coach, director leaving for whatever reason (make one up). They are unhappy or see greener pastures going another route. They can't force players to leave with them, but if the player is also unhappy about certain aspects and/or sees greener pastures they may go too. Some players may be quite happy where they are and others may be happy to see the coach go. Bottom line is, all people, players, coaches, directors, parents should do what is best for themselves. Many people are unhappy with many aspects of what comes along with the YG organization, yet many people are quite happy to be a part of it. The kids on these team owe the organization nothing, and are free to leave for whatever reason. I have heard talk and have read on these threads that many people won't leave certain teams for fear of being black balled. Is this a concern between travel clubs or is there school ties to be concerned of?

I stand corrected, i didn't mean she was justified, I meant Shannon is probably one of her most successful players, and maybe Carol felt a little betrayed.

[Please note : additional content in this posting was lost during reformatting. - CageSage]

Is this really fair for us to Specualte on how CR feels. I think this has gone way overboard and needs to be stopped.

From the looks of an email sent by the club today the YJ has huge numbers for tryouts and is doing just fine with all the other clubs. There is room for all the kids to play. I really dont think she is spending or should I say wasting any valuable time worrying about any of this. You should stop making cmments about stuff you really have no information about.

Good luck to all the clubs and our LI kids.

Does anyone have info on fl$ 2015?

I have heard that this is a new group that is being started by s few parents unhappy from Liberty

Dame straight she feels betrayed. When Shannon scored the winning goal in the NCAA final four against North Carolina, Carol Rose and her Crony Coaches yelled out “Check her Stick” “Check her Stick”. Instead of being happy for her in the last minute of the game, she was looking for Shannon to fail. WOW! Talk about being bitter and yes it happen I was standing in front of Carol and Mitchell and others on her staff when they yelled it out.

NO Wrong they were talking about the stick check that occurred in the nationals game the same weekend and were Joking about it. Maybe UNC should have called a stickcheck!! Its part of the game.

Dont twist the story into anything more than that!! They are not wishing for her to fail. I was there too!!

Given that UNC was mentioned in both posts, it is pretty clear that something was said ... and that the last two posters were sitting within maybe a couple of seats of one another?

One thing for sure : It is a long way from Long Island's High School scene to the Final Four. Some are in the stands, some are on the field.

Except when your stirring the pot for NO reason. Are you bored

Just to be clear... I was at the game between Northwestern and UNC. and after Shannons game winning goal the ref's did indeed check her stick, I'm not saying that they heard Coach Rose yelling but they checked her stick. as a matter of fact they aslo check the stick of Northwestern Defenseman Taylor Thorton after she ran out the clock.. obviously both sticks were legal and the rest is history..

No twisting about it. They were talking about the game they were wacthing not the Nationals, Nice try. Besides If I were in Carol's Yellow Zig-Tech (Shoes) I would want my competition to fail too. That's life. Don't try to cover it up deal with it..

If I remember correctly, I think that the ref's checked every girls stick several times during that game. there were more whistles than a 4th grade PAL game.

There was a great Stick Check in the Long Island Team 3 game maybe their was a comparison made!

. Can we take this off girls 2015 thread? Nothing to do with this thread. They created these threads for a reason. Why don't you start your own bash the yellow jackets thread and sign in your name and get off this thread!

YJ's get bashed on every thread, even their own. If you want a thread where there is not YJ bashing, you should check out the boys threads. All the organizations get bashed here in anonymous-land. Like how you call everyone out for posting anonymous while doing the same yourself.

. I am not bashing anyone my daughter is a 2015 and these last few posts have to do with NCAA and Shannon and coach rose and nothing to
Do with 2015

[Thquote=Anonymous]. I am not bashing anyone my daughter is a 2015 and these last few posts have to do with NCAA and Shannon and coach rose and nothing to
Do with 2015
[/quote]

It would be nice to see every thread sorta stay on topic, but often discussions spin off. I find the spin offs interesting and funny. The thread title is a starting point for discussion, where the discussion goes from there is anyones guess. Relax and go with it, if threads wandering off topic bothers you, all these threads on BOTC are going to keep you up all night because they all go off topic.

YJ are not going to give tryout results for 3 weeks..what's the hold up?

There are age groups that did not try out yet. She always puts them all out at once.

Why wait? Let the kids know.

Most already know even if it is not official.

YJ 15 blue, are head and shoulders above all LI teams and , m&d, heroes, united and even most 2014 teams. nobody competes with this team. plain and simple, simply the best. we will see at u15 nationals this summer. this team beats everyone badly. wait till u15 nats in florida this summer. if you played this team last year and you didn't lose by more than 10 goals ,, please respond with score and tourn and date. else shutup.
YJ blue parents, that right....

Where did this come from?

. Seriously, let's be humble here for a minute and just be happy how our team is playing now!

how come you seem to be the only yj team that has not played up in age the lasy few years, could it be you are protecting the unbeaten streak. At national draw this year they were the oldest team in age gruop, at national draw last year2010 you were oldest team in your age group strange coincidence.

No they were in correct bracket with all other 2015 teams. Try again.

Dude, you can't be serious with this. Even if this is your opinion, it comes off as extremely obnoxious and arrogant. This is the behavior all the other clubs kill the yj's for. You are an embarrassment to yj parents and to all lacrosse parents, you should tone it way down. Unless this was posted by a player, then you are an embarrassment to yj players and to all lacrosse players. Get real.

Where do you people get this from?
In 2010 every 2014 was in their bracket at national draw but M and D black and YJ blue. This team plays up all the time. It happens to be a very good team. They work hard. Give them credit. Will they lose? probably. So what ? It won't change anything! they will still be a great team, but I am sure there will be plenty of haters come on this site and crow about it.Then say how they aren't that good! It is sad how people in the lax community get pleasure off of their "rivals" failures.

they lost players this year.

Really embarrassing post for whomever wrote that

They lost one kid to track. There are plenty of talented kids that will replace any one kid.

i am a YJ parent and I couldn't agree with you more! There is no place for this garbage in youth sports. That team is not arrogant at all. It is hard working and confident but never arrogant. I question whether this is from anyone affiliated with the YJ's. It almost seems like someone purposely wrote this to get a reaction and stir the pot.

I guess time will tell.

WOW can't wait to see some team out there beat your team even if it's by one goal. It would be so much fun reading this thread. How Arrogant! It’s funny that over the years I’ve gotten to know this team and the parent’s reaction. It would be great to see the steam.

"In 2010 every 2014 was in their bracket at national draw but M and D black and YJ blue"
Not strange to you that probably the two best teams in the 2014 age group play up that year then when the 2015 yj blue are in the same age situation they elect to stay down. I wonder why the yj have different rules for what divisions teams play in for national championships from year to year.All yj blue teams I know of have played against the year older yj blue . Has 2015 ever played 2014 blue ?

Really? That would make you feel all giddy? Do you stay up at night thinking about it? What a loser! Think about it dude! Does a group of 14 year old girls success really get under your skin? I don't think the parents on that team care at all if they lose or not. They know the kids have worked hard and are a great team. I am also sure someone will beat them! Every team will have a bad day! It is people like you who will make a big deal of it, just to [lacrosse] people off. If you really knew the team and the parents you would not be saying that!

Here we go! Another conspiracy theory! fyi. 13 blue hasn't played 14,14 hasn't played 15 and 15 hasn't played 16. There goes that theory! The team doesn't duck anyone!

No they have never played a real game. I think 2014 would win pretty easily. 2015 has played 2014 gold a couple of times an won without too much trouble...

WOW can't wait to see some team out there beat your team even if it's by one goal. It would be so much fun reading this thread. How Arrogant! It’s funny that over the years I’ve gotten to know this team and the parent’s reaction. It would be great to see the steam.

Really? That would make you feel all giddy? Do you stay up at night thinking about it? What a loser! Think about it dude! Does a group of 14 year old girls success really get under your skin? I don't think the parents on that team care at all if they lose or not. They know the kids have worked hard and are a great team. I am also sure someone will beat them! Every team will have a bad day! It is people like you who will make a big deal of it, just to [lacrosse] people off. If you really knew the team and the parents you would not be saying that!

The answers to your question is NO.
The only loser is the person / parent who started this message.
Oh Yes. The parents do care if they win or lose. It’s about collage.
Yes all the kids work hard and they do deserve to win for all the girls in all the Clubs.
Yes at one point the 2015 Blue will lose and I would want to see the reaction of the YJ club and this thread.
The only person pissed seems to be you. And I do know the team and the parents and that’s why I said what I said.

If you read the previous posts, there were YJ parents who agreed with you regarding the post you are referring to. I don't think you will get the reaction you are looking for. I hate to dissapoint you. No one is pissed. Just pointing out some of the rediculous behavior that goes on on this site. There is no need to be cynical or negative. The better all the girls and clubs play, the better off they everyone will be! btw The team doesn't need to be undefeated for the girls to get looks from colleges. They will do just fine.

I’m not disappointed and I did get the response I was looking for, a reasonable response and respect for the girls who play this great sport. Not being cynical or negative I was just pointing out the arrogance of the parents or maybe players who wrote the post we are talking about. And how damaging it is to the YJ organization and all the LI Clubs, this is why YJ get such a bad reputation. Btw this attitude gives all the LI Club the same reputation from clubs outside the LI area, I never applied that a team had to be undefeated for collages to look at them but it seems that some YJ supporters or parents feel that way. Otherwise they would have never posted there statement that started this discussion. I think the YJ supporter or parents should clean house before started a post like the one we are talking about. Have fun and let’s enjoy the game.

That is also a reasonable response. I really don't think that it was anyone who is affiliated with the YJ who wrote that post. I really think it is someone looking to stir the pot. If so, it was successful.

let's try and at least spell college correctly if you're trying to get into one

How do you know they weren't talking about a work of formal art, primarily in the visual arts, made from an assemblage of different forms, thus creating a new whole?

Maybe cage sage can get a spell checker added to the posting form.

once is a mistake, 3-4 times is a trend

WOW is that all you got? Really? No wounded why the YJ get a bad reputation. I fact they deserve it because of people like you. Stop living your glory days and think about your kids and their future, if they follow your footsteps there going nowhere. It’s sad that some people feel they must always be on top and when someone else has a good point or idea there attacked, for what, their spelling. Very Sad.

I'm not a YJ parent but I get a laugh out of the spelling police. I think I've probably posted a correction or two myself. So sue me. "Your" instead of "you're" bothers me, as does "collage" instead of "college." After years of posting on various forums, I've mostly given up. It's not worth the bandwidth. Don't assume the spelling police are trying to one-up the poster. Bad spelling, and even worse, bad punctuation really do make for rough reading.

Team Elevate is holding a tryout for 2015 girls ONLY on Saturday December 17th at the Hofstra Bubble from 5-6:30pm.

Information can be found on the tryout board.

Also - SPECIAL THANKS to those who have are helping with our HOLIDAY MAGIC Charity. We still need help and 100% of everything we receive goes directly to the kids in homeless shelters.

Can ayone give me some insight into team elevate? I have never heard of this club but I am instereted in the 2015 girls team. thanks

BOTC would recommend visiting the Team Elevate web site (link is available in the Long Island Clubs content island to the right of your display). There, you will see program details, club philosophy pages, and some endorsements which might help you decide if you would like to attend tryouts for their 2015 program.

You can also directly contact Dave Kotowski (see the tryout thread) for a personal conversation. Note that Team Elevate also sports Abby Morgan on the staff from the Hofstra Women's Program.

Doubtful you will find anything but great things on the website.

This age group will be playing in the U-15 National Championships at Disney's "Espn Wide World of Sports" this July. The LI Yellow Jackets are defending Champions. Any info on other LI club teams making the trip? I would expect some heavy hitters from Maryland will be there (M&D, Hero's etc..)

BOTC congratulates the following 2015 girls who have been selected to represent Long Island in the 2012 Brine National Lacrosse Classic. This event will be held from June 29th through July 3rd in Maryland.

Amorison, Alyssa, M, 2015, Huntington, NY
Apuzzo, Samantha, M, 2015, West Babylon, NY
Bonafede, Ella, M, 2015, Bay Shore, NY
Daly, Lauren, G, 2015, Shoreham, NY

Saw them this weekend. They seemed to be coached well but lacked over all talent.

US Lacrosse has released the girls youth lacrosse teams that will compete in the fourth annual US Lacrosse Under-15 National Championships from July 24th through July 26th at the ESPN Wide World of Sports Complex in Lake Buena Vista, Florida.

US Lacrosse Girls’ U15 National Championship
Be More Lax (Md.)
Cardinal (Va.)
Coast2Coast NorCal (Calif.)
Coyotes Fusion (Colo.)
CT Dodgers (Conn.)
Desert Heat (Ariz.)
Eagle Stix Atlanta (Ga.)
Houston (Texas)
Lax Maniax (Fla.)
Lightning (Ga.)
Lonestar (Texas)
Long Island Liberty (N.Y.)
Long Island Top Guns (N.Y.)
NorCal Elite Blue (Calif.)
NorCal Elite Green (Calif.)
North Carolina
Pacific Falcons Blue (Calif.)
Sky Walkers 2015 Blue (Md.)
StickBenders (Fla.)
Top of the Bay (Md.)
Triple Threat National (Calif.)
Utah
Washington State
Yellow Jackets Team 1 (N.Y.)
Yellow Jackets Team 2 (N.Y.)

4 teams from California and only 2 from Maryland. Are the California teams so strong that there needs to be 4 of them? At least Sky Walkers will be there to give the L.I. teams a run for there money. Why isn't Stars Gold on this list they took 2nd place last year?

To me it seems this all started with a boast from a Y.J. parent about how much better 2015 blue is than every other team, and how they crush everyone by 10 or more goals. The truth is they got beat in Md. and didn't make it to finals. Then they went to a very weak Lax By The Sea tournament where you prediction came true against some of the weakest travel programs around, then you went to a mediocre National draw where your only competition was against yourselves and M&D and you lost there too. Now your going to a camp???? who are you going to beat there. I know your going to say its a recruitment camp Yadda Yadda Yadda.... And your boasting about that tourney in Fla. last year there was no Loony's M&D, MD Sky Walkers Liberty, Heros, did you play anyone down there? very good you beat teams from Cali and Texas. Seems like you didn't just have a bad game , seems like a trend