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fl$ Lawsuit

Posted By: laxislife

fl$ Lawsuit - 07/25/18 04:16 AM

Apparently Bob Jahelka, former co-owner of fl$ was owed 1 million dollars for his buyout in increments of 100k over the course of one year but after 4 months, the payments stopped and the owners of fl$ never answered any phone calls and emails for months so Bob is now suing them from 5 million dollars for breach of contract and is claiming that they are going bankrupt.

Did anyone else receive a copy of the lawsuit to their homes or emails?
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: fl$ Lawsuit - 07/25/18 09:55 AM

no
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: fl$ Lawsuit - 07/25/18 12:54 PM

Just did a search and did not find a filing "For the Love of the Game Lacrosse lawsuit filing". if someone finds, please post the link.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: fl$ Lawsuit - 07/25/18 02:01 PM

The money went to pay for the Huntington storefront
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: fl$ Lawsuit - 07/25/18 08:57 PM

SUPREME COURT OF THE STATE OF NEW YORK
COUNTY OF NASSAU
--------------------------------------------------------------------X
PIONEER INITIATIVES, INC., independently, and
PIONEER INITIATIVES, INC., derivatively on behalf
of all creditors ofFLG Lacrosse, Inc.,
Plaintiffs,
- against -
fl$ LACROSSE, INC. a/k/a FOR THE LOVE OF
THE GAME and GREG MICHAEL WINK.OFF,
individually,
Defendants.
--------------------------------------------------------------------X
SUMMONS
TO THE ABOVE-NAMED DEFENDANTS:
Index No.
Plaintiff Designate Nassau
County as the place of trial.
The basis of venue is the
Residence of Plaintiff Pioneer
Initiatives, Inc.
YOU ARE SUMMONED to answer the Complaint in this action and to serve a copy of
your answer, or, if the Complaint is not served with this Summons, to serve a Notice of
Appearance, on the plaintiff's attorneys within twenty (20) days after the service of this
Summons, exclusive of the day of service (or within thirty (30) days after service is complete if
this Summons is not personally delivered to you within the State of New York); and in case of
your failure to appear or answer, judgment will be taken against you by default for the relief
demanded in the Complaint.
Dated: May 8, 2018
W antagh, New York
To: Michael Winkoff, President
fl$ Lacrosse, Inc.
345 Main Street, Unit #8
Huntington, NY 11743
Michael Winkoff, Individually
47 Crescent Beach Drive
Huntington, NY 11743

VERIFIED COMPLAINT
PIONEER INITIATIVES, INC., independently, and Pioneer Initiatives, Inc., derivatively
on behalf of all creditors of fl$ Lacrosse, Inc. (the "Plaintiff') by and through its undersigned
counsel, LaMonica Herbst & Maniscalco, LLP, as and for its verified complaint (the
"Complaint") against defendants fl$ LACROSSE, INC. a/k/a FOR THE LOVE OF THE
GAME ("fl$ Lacrosse") and GREG MICHAEL WINKOFF, individually ("Winkoff')
( collectively, fl$ Lacrosse and Winkoff shall be referred to as "Defendants"), alleges as
follows:
Preliminary Statement
I. Plaintiffs bring these claims independently and derivatively on behalf of all
creditors of defendant fl$ Lacrosse for, among other things, breach of contract, fraudulent
inducement and breach of fiduciary duty. As more fully set forth herein, there can be no doubt
that the individual defendant Greg Michael Winkoff has engaged, and continues to engage, in a
fraud on the Plaintiffs and the creditors of the defendant fl$ Lacrosse. Through his manipulation, misrepresentation and fraudulent inducement, he caused a buyout of the defendant
fl$ Lacrosse and has been using the cash flow and revenue of the company for his own
personal purposes and diverting it to third parties for his benefit. In doing so, he has purposely
defaulted on a Consulting Agreement only four (4) months after execution despite having the
financial ability to pay it, and has threatened to place the company into bankruptcy or simply
shut it down. Not only does this jeopardize the continued viability of the defendant fl$
Lacrosse, but also the hundreds of players who participate in its programs and the various
contracts for tournaments over the next several years. His actions and behavior are inconsistent
with sound logical principles and reasonable business judgment. At the very least, he should be
removed from his position and this Court should consider the immediate appointment of a
receiver who will act in the best interest of the company, the players, and all of its creditors. But
for judicial intervention, the individual defendant Greg Michael Winkoff is likely to continue
diverting corporate assets for his personal benefit and that of his family to the detriment of
defendant fl$ Lacrosse and its creditors.
THE PARTIES
2. Plaintiff Pioneer Initiatives, Inc. is a New York corporation with a principal place
of business at 1400 Old Country Road, Westbury, New York 11590.
3. Defendant fl$ Lacrosse is a New York corporation with a principal place of
business at 345 Main Street, Unit #8, Huntington, New York 11743.
4. Defendant Greg Michael Winkoff is an individual citizen of the United States
with a personal residence at 4 7 Crescent Beach Drive, Huntington, New York 117 43.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: fl$ Lawsuit - 07/25/18 08:58 PM

And his daughter's wedding!!
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: fl$ Lawsuit - 07/25/18 10:38 PM

"wow ok thanks "
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: fl$ Lawsuit - 07/26/18 01:05 PM

For the Love or For the Money?
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: fl$ Lawsuit - 07/26/18 01:33 PM

Messy...
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: fl$ Lawsuit - 07/27/18 12:13 AM

Originally Posted by Anonymous
Messy...

Great I just signed up for try outs, there goes 81 dollars out the window.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: fl$ Lawsuit - 08/03/18 01:40 AM

Originally Posted by Anonymous
For the Love or For the Money?


FLM, For the Love of the Money!
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: fl$ Lawsuit - 08/03/18 12:29 PM

Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
For the Love or For the Money?


FLM, For the Love of the Money!


FL$ has done a lot of messed up things over the years. Doubt many on LI are sheddding too many tears over this. Mike (a/k/a Greg):
Maybe those Manhasst daddies you used to be so buddy buddy with can help out......
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: fl$ Lawsuit - 08/03/18 01:02 PM

New to the game what messed up things have they done in the past?
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: fl$ Lawsuit - 08/03/18 01:29 PM

Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
For the Love or For the Money?


FLM, For the Love of the Money!


FL$ has done a lot of messed up things over the years. Doubt many on LI are sheddding too many tears over this. Mike (a/k/a Greg):
Maybe those Manhasst daddies you used to be so buddy buddy with can help out......


who would be dumb enough to pay $1 million for fl$? and who would be dumb enough to think they were going to get it?
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
For the Love or For the Money?


FLM, For the Love of the Money!


FL$ has done a lot of messed up things over the years. Doubt many on LI are sheddding too many tears over this. Mike (a/k/a Greg):
Maybe those Manhasst daddies you used to be so buddy buddy with can help out......


who would be dumb enough to pay $1million for fl$? and who would be dumb enough to think they would get paid?
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: fl$ Lawsuit - 08/03/18 01:45 PM

like what, having kids honor their commitment to the team for the 6 week period they ask of that and not leave their other club teammates in the lurch? F Chaminade and their pompous attitude. Is that what you were referring to by messed up? IT seems to me the current issue is a disagreement between two former partners. Both seemed like decent people from my experience, hope they work it out.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: fl$ Lawsuit - 08/03/18 04:10 PM

Originally Posted by Anonymous
The money went to pay for the Huntington storefront


Never understood why they had a storefront. That has to be high rent being on the main strip in Huntington village. Were (or are) they ever a significant player in the lax world? Honest question... I never heard much about them... always the bigger players like 91, Express, Igloo, etc. I see a helmet here and there. Do they have solid teams in the older age groups?.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: fl$ Lawsuit - 08/03/18 05:29 PM

a few years back they had a team that won the "national championship" in FL...since then, not much. the 20's are good. they have a lot of very average teams at younger ages, but solid program just not all in in term of year round dedication from the players and equal playing time across the board. works for some, we wanted more lax.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: fl$ Lawsuit - 08/03/18 07:14 PM

Was at a tourney in PA this summer. Their 2025 team played my son's team. Very Solid B team and could be A if they added one or two players on Attack. Goalie was a monster.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: fl$ Lawsuit - 08/03/18 07:55 PM

Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
For the Love or For the Money?


FLM, For the Love of the Money!


FL$ has done a lot of messed up things over the years. Doubt many on LI are sheddding too many tears over this. Mike (a/k/a Greg):
Maybe those Manhasst daddies you used to be so buddy buddy with can help out......


who would be dumb enough to pay $1 million for fl$? and who would be dumb enough to think they were going to get it?
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
For the Love or For the Money?


FLM, For the Love of the Money!


FL$ has done a lot of messed up things over the years. Doubt many on LI are sheddding too many tears over this. Mike (a/k/a Greg):
Maybe those Manhasst daddies you used to be so buddy buddy with can help out......


who would be dumb enough to pay $1million for fl$? and who would be dumb enough to think they would get paid?


Better think twice about signing on with them. They will take the money from the team to pay for their legal defense. Be careful.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: fl$ Lawsuit - 08/03/18 10:01 PM

What are the things they have done? Having 5 teams per age group, using players from AS team play with lesser teams (and take playing time away from that teams players) so they can get a desired tournament result? Ok
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: fl$ Lawsuit - 08/03/18 10:33 PM

That's ridiculous, who has 5 teams per age group! and they only have one team per age group. Maybe they had more in the past, i'm not sure. Also, if you didn't notice everyone brings kids from the A team down, from time to time, not nice but common.
Originally Posted by Anonymous
What are the things they have done? Having 5 teams per age group, using players from AS team play with lesser teams (and take playing time away from that teams players) so they can get a desired tournament result? Ok
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: fl$ Lawsuit - 08/04/18 04:54 AM

It was a million pesos not a million dollars
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: fl$ Lawsuit - 08/04/18 09:58 PM

Oops, guess I need to work my sarcasm. You are correct they only have one team per age group I was referring to one of the other programs out there that really has screwed people in the past. Although they were on the more expensive side they usually did try to do the right thing. I wonder if J thinks that now the issue has gone public and scared many away from the program that he will have an easier time getting what he feels he is owed.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: fl$ Lawsuit - 08/05/18 12:37 AM

Originally Posted by Anonymous
Oops, guess I need to work my sarcasm. You are correct they only have one team per age group I was referring to one of the other programs out there that really has screwed people in the past. Although they were on the more expensive side they usually did try to do the right thing. I wonder if J thinks that now the issue has gone public and scared many away from the program that he will have an easier time getting what he feels he is owed.


Ah! I see. Sarcasm gets lost on this site. We have been with fl$ for 3 years and have be been very happy with them!
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: fl$ Lawsuit - 08/05/18 03:32 AM

Sorry was being sarcastic they only had 1 team per group unlike some other programs
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: fl$ Lawsuit - 08/05/18 08:14 PM

Been with them for two years, they run a great program. Training all year round with great coaches.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: fl$ Lawsuit - 08/06/18 01:40 AM

Originally Posted by Anonymous
That's ridiculous, who has 5 teams per age group! and they only have one team per age group. Maybe they had more in the past, i'm not sure. Also, if you didn't notice everyone brings kids from the A team down, from time to time, not nice but common.
Originally Posted by Anonymous
What are the things they have done? Having 5 teams per age group, using players from AS team play with lesser teams (and take playing time away from that teams players) so they can get a desired tournament result? Ok



They have had multiple teams at certain ages - they had 2 tams for 2021 for at least 1 or 2 seasons, and that was a horror show!
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: fl$ Lawsuit - 08/06/18 04:41 PM

Didn't you guys know. Winkoff is one of the most influential people in the Lacrosse world as to US Magazine. Ever since that article he portrays himself as the almighty GOD of Long Island Lacrosse. He's says that he has started Lacrosse in urban communites on LI. Truth be told, he's never there or around them. Just when there is a camera.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: fl$ Lawsuit - 08/06/18 05:21 PM

His latest and greatest is he used the Long Island Lacrosse Showcase to line his own pocket. Then has the nerve to have his FL$ coaches coach teams and use that as an opportunity to poach players for FL$. You cannot trust that man or anyone associated with that program.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: fl$ Lawsuit - 08/06/18 06:34 PM

Wow you bring the tar and I'll bring the feathers and we can meet up in Huntington. Face it all Directors/Coaches do shady things to either line their pockets or bring kids into their program. Currently there is no regulatory body in place to monitor their activities. As parents we need to pick the one with the least warts.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: fl$ Lawsuit - 08/06/18 09:00 PM

Why has the organization not put out a statement to it’s players
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: fl$ Lawsuit - 08/06/18 09:19 PM

Originally Posted by Anonymous
His latest and greatest is he used the Long Island Lacrosse Showcase to line his own pocket. Then has the nerve to have his FL$ coaches coach teams and use that as an opportunity to poach players for FL$. You cannot trust that man or anyone associated with that program.


You can't poach a player if they don't want to go to the organization
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: fl$ Lawsuit - 08/06/18 09:30 PM

Originally Posted by Anonymous
Why has the organization not put out a statement to it’s players




The two founders of the Corporation are having a disagreement on a buy out of ownership. Why do you think the customers deserve an explanation? What don't you know that a statement is going to tell you?
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: fl$ Lawsuit - 08/07/18 01:48 PM

You sound like you have an axe to grind. Pretty much every team poaches and they aren’t bad compared to the other big programs on the island.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: fl$ Lawsuit - 08/07/18 04:39 PM

Who’s coaching 24 east 2026 and where are they located out of ?
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: fl$ Lawsuit - 08/07/18 05:04 PM

Originally Posted by Anonymous
Who’s coaching 24 east 2026 and where are they located out of ?

go on website.all coaches listed. one of the Reh's. based on north shore Mt.Sinia-Rocky Point.They have a lot to offer with great coaches.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: fl$ Lawsuit - 08/07/18 05:14 PM

LOL. the guy listing all these "bad things" fl$ does/has done is comical and its clear he has an axe to grind and is grabbing at straws. He sounds desperate. Yawn. Been with other programs boys and girls-they run a nice program. Not perfect mind you, but none of the others are either.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: fl$ Lawsuit - 08/07/18 07:50 PM

So Outlaws are better? Legacy, True Blue? You guys make me laugh.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: fl$ Lawsuit - 08/08/18 04:45 PM

How did tryouts go, turnout, are kids staying with them
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: fl$ Lawsuit - 08/09/18 07:11 PM

Originally Posted by Anonymous
How did tryouts go, turnout, are kids staying with them


no one is leaving
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: fl$ Lawsuit - 08/09/18 09:31 PM

They put their deposit down before they even knew about the lawsuit, of course no one is leaving!!!
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: fl$ Lawsuit - 08/10/18 12:26 PM

The lawsuit should have no impact on the program. These sorts of business disputes happen all the time. They will settle.
We returned to the program, aware of the lawsuit, as we were very happy with the training, coaches and overall player development. They cost less (a bit) than the Igloos/91s/Expresses and are conveniently located for western Suffolk folks.
Tryouts were well attended with a bunch of players from other programs there.. Looking forward to a solid team this year.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: fl$ Lawsuit - 08/10/18 12:49 PM

law suit is irrelevant to the players...
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: fl$ Lawsuit - 08/10/18 03:24 PM

Originally Posted by Anonymous
law suit is irrelevant to the players...


Give me a break. With all lawsuits there is definitely risk to the consumer. If they cant settle or agree business' go out of business all the time as a result and that is a risk to the players. Now I completely agree its business as ussual for now with good coaches and good training but there was also a good manager at my local toys r us and guess what he got screwed when corporate decided to go out of business.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: fl$ Lawsuit - 08/10/18 03:47 PM

Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
law suit is irrelevant to the players...


Give me a break. With all lawsuits there is definitely risk to the consumer. If they cant settle or agree business' go out of business all the time as a result and that is a risk to the players. Now I completely agree its business as ussual for now with good coaches and good training but there was also a good manager at my local toys r us and guess what he got screwed when corporate decided to go out of business.


Parents have no clue. Believe me it happens every day, corporation goes bankrupt, then dissolves. Everyone who is owed money is "SOL."
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: fl$ Lawsuit - 08/10/18 04:05 PM

What appears on this website is a copy of the summons. Has it been served? No index #, maybe it wasn't served as of this time. Could be a tactic to speed up a settlement, and remain out of court, who knows. Anyway, don't pay the full boat up front, string the payments along just in case it turns bad.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: fl$ Lawsuit - 08/10/18 04:06 PM

Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
law suit is irrelevant to the players...


Give me a break. With all lawsuits there is definitely risk to the consumer. If they cant settle or agree business' go out of business all the time as a result and that is a risk to the players. Now I completely agree its business as ussual for now with good coaches and good training but there was also a good manager at my local toys r us and guess what he got screwed when corporate decided to go out of business.



So how does that usually work out for the creditors trying to get all of their money. You think this ex partner want's an insolvent business that will make his deal to collect almost impossible. Come on people think sometimes. He did this to make sure a court enforces the agreement so each party has a vested interest in making sure things continue.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: fl$ Lawsuit - 08/11/18 08:27 AM

Many of the parents on our team knew nothing about the lawsuit
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: fl$ Lawsuit - 08/12/18 02:42 PM

How can they not inform the parents what is going on
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: fl$ Lawsuit - 08/13/18 03:33 PM

because they don't care
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: fl$ Lawsuit - 08/13/18 06:24 PM

Originally Posted by Anonymous
because they don't care


It is really none of their business, and will have little to no impact on the teams. This is a business, and businesses get sued all of the time. I have nothing to do with this organization, but know kids who play there, and they are staying because of the coaches that they play for, and the friends that they have been playing with.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: fl$ Lawsuit - 08/13/18 09:04 PM

Originally Posted by Anonymous
His latest and greatest is he used the Long Island Lacrosse Showcase to line his own pocket. Then has the nerve to have his FL$ coaches coach teams and use that as an opportunity to poach players for FL$. You cannot trust that man or anyone associated with that program.


Exactly why was he involved in the Long Island Showcase?? What does he have to do with the Nassau Coaches Association? And with those points, why is he allowed the access to players to poach them? Anyone who doesn't think he is preying upon kids for HIS/FL$ benefit is lying to themselves. Hook the naive, impressionable kid with BS promises of grandeur, and then convincing the parent is that much easier!
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: fl$ Lawsuit - 08/14/18 02:30 PM

Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
because they don't care


It is really none of their business, and will have little to no impact on the teams. This is a business, and businesses get sued all of the time. I have nothing to do with this organization, but know kids who play there, and they are staying because of the coaches that they play for, and the friends that they have been playing with.


how could it be none of there business, if the team folds then what, Winkoff did threaten to bankrupt the organization
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: fl$ Lawsuit - 08/14/18 03:04 PM

Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
because they don't care


It is really none of their business, and will have little to no impact on the teams. This is a business, and businesses get sued all of the time. I have nothing to do with this organization, but know kids who play there, and they are staying because of the coaches that they play for, and the friends that they have been playing with.


The suit alleges that fl$ is financially unstable due to the owner's actions. If true (and that's a big if) then there is a real risk of insolvency.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: fl$ Lawsuit - 08/14/18 03:49 PM

Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
because they don't care


It is really none of their business, and will have little to no impact on the teams. This is a business, and businesses get sued all of the time. I have nothing to do with this organization, but know kids who play there, and they are staying because of the coaches that they play for, and the friends that they have been playing with.


how could it be none of there business, if the team folds then what, Winkoff did threaten to bankrupt the organization


According to the plaintiff contained within his summons to appear. Like I said, as of now it doesn't appear as if the summons was even filed with the court.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: fl$ Lawsuit - 08/14/18 06:48 PM

Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
because they don't care


It is really none of their business, and will have little to no impact on the teams. This is a business, and businesses get sued all of the time. I have nothing to do with this organization, but know kids who play there, and they are staying because of the coaches that they play for, and the friends that they have been playing with.


how could it be none of there business, if the team folds then what, Winkoff did threaten to bankrupt the organization


According to the plaintiff contained within his summons to appear. Like I said, as of now it doesn't appear as if the summons was even filed with the court.



Then why is BOTC reporting this
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: fl$ Lawsuit - 08/14/18 07:35 PM

Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
because they don't care


It is really none of their business, and will have little to no impact on the teams. This is a business, and businesses get sued all of the time. I have nothing to do with this organization, but know kids who play there, and they are staying because of the coaches that they play for, and the friends that they have been playing with.


how could it be none of there business, if the team folds then what, Winkoff did threaten to bankrupt the organization


According to the plaintiff contained within his summons to appear. Like I said, as of now it doesn't appear as if the summons was even filed with the court.



Then why is BOTC reporting this


Index Number: 0606192/2018

https://iapps.courts.state.ny.us/webcivil/FCASCaseInfo?parm=CaseInfo&index=9N8Po9FEoonXdbi9p64xKA%3D%3D&county=224B5REwS8zyBUpAECb5yw%3D%3D&motion=M&docs=&adate=06/29/2018&civilCaseId=dxBi6sqOF8IYqwTynylsdw%3D%3D
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: fl$ Lawsuit - 08/14/18 07:59 PM

Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
because they don't care


It is really none of their business, and will have little to no impact on the teams. This is a business, and businesses get sued all of the time. I have nothing to do with this organization, but know kids who play there, and they are staying because of the coaches that they play for, and the friends that they have been playing with.


how could it be none of there business, if the team folds then what, Winkoff did threaten to bankrupt the organization


According to the plaintiff contained within his summons to appear. Like I said, as of now it doesn't appear as if the summons was even filed with the court.



Then why is BOTC reporting this


Index Number: 0606192/2018

https://iapps.courts.state.ny.us/webcivil/FCASCaseInfo?parm=CaseInfo&index=9N8Po9FEoonXdbi9p64xKA%3D%3D&county=224B5REwS8zyBUpAECb5yw%3D%3D&motion=M&docs=&adate=06/29/2018&civilCaseId=dxBi6sqOF8IYqwTynylsdw%3D%3D


Mike, I mean mic drop.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: fl$ Lawsuit - 08/14/18 08:05 PM

I guess it was filed
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: fl$ Lawsuit - 08/14/18 08:22 PM

Motion withdrawn.. nothing to see here.
My son is going back because the training and player development there is great.
One more round of tryouts for the 2027/2026/2024 teams on Thursday.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: fl$ Lawsuit - 08/14/18 09:42 PM

It was filed. I don't think I would get involved with them, since there are many other clubs to choose from. Unless you are ready to accept a similar statement from Mr. GW "I'm so sorry, the judge didn't understand, I was forced to do what I had to do."
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: fl$ Lawsuit - 08/14/18 10:16 PM

Originally Posted by Anonymous
Motion withdrawn.. nothing to see here.
My son is going back because the training and player development there is great.
One more round of tryouts for the 2027/2026/2024 teams on Thursday.

I don't think you understand how to read a court docket.

Pioneer was using the same firm that drafted the consulting agreement that is now in question. fl$ sought to disqualify Pioneer's counsel. Pioneer voluntarily switched counsel so fl$'s motion was withdrawn.

Next docket action should be around September 7th when we get to see fl$'s next response in this case.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: fl$ Lawsuit - 08/14/18 10:44 PM

Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Motion withdrawn.. nothing to see here.
My son is going back because the training and player development there is great.
One more round of tryouts for the 2027/2026/2024 teams on Thursday.

I don't think you understand how to read a court docket.

Pioneer was using the same firm that drafted the consulting agreement that is now in question. fl$ sought to disqualify Pioneer's counsel. Pioneer voluntarily switched counsel so fl$'s motion was withdrawn.

Next docket action should be around September 7th when we get to see fl$'s next response in this case.


No they don't understand. Further, the income generated by fl$ will be used to defend themselves and those who are not aware of the cost of litigation, shame on you. Maybe fl$ will be brought out by DLT and DLT will settle the matter pinnies on the dollar.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: fl$ Lawsuit - 08/14/18 11:13 PM

Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Motion withdrawn.. nothing to see here.
My son is going back because the training and player development there is great.
One more round of tryouts for the 2027/2026/2024 teams on Thursday.

I don't think you understand how to read a court docket.

Pioneer was using the same firm that drafted the consulting agreement that is now in question. fl$ sought to disqualify Pioneer's counsel. Pioneer voluntarily switched counsel so fl$'s motion was withdrawn.

Next docket action should be around September 7th when we get to see fl$'s next response in this case.


Exactly.
The case is still on track and proceeding.
Just a motion to disqualify counsel was withdrawn because it was moot, since the party changed counsel voluntarily.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: fl$ Lawsuit - 08/15/18 12:12 PM

Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Motion withdrawn.. nothing to see here.
My son is going back because the training and player development there is great.
One more round of tryouts for the 2027/2026/2024 teams on Thursday.

I don't think you understand how to read a court docket.

Pioneer was using the same firm that drafted the consulting agreement that is now in question. fl$ sought to disqualify Pioneer's counsel. Pioneer voluntarily switched counsel so fl$'s motion was withdrawn.

Next docket action should be around September 7th when we get to see fl$'s next response in this case.


No they don't understand. Further, the income generated by fl$ will be used to defend themselves and those who are not aware of the cost of litigation, shame on you. Maybe fl$ will be brought out by DLT and DLT will settle the matter pinnies on the dollar.


From reading the documents, this consulting agreement is basically a 10 year payout to Pioneer which I suspect was an attempt to avoid some taxes from the sale. The only way out of these monthly payments is to go belly up. There seems to be a fair amount of bad blood between the two parties and I wouldn't put it past them to go nuclear.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: fl$ Lawsuit - 08/22/18 12:02 PM

Everyone is just making things up. Has anyone had an actual issue.? Then stop the BS. This is a very successful business, that has been around for years. No one is going away. These people will work out their personal business issues between partners, and it will be business as usual on the field.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: fl$ Lawsuit - 08/22/18 01:21 PM

Status quo.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: fl$ Lawsuit - 08/22/18 02:26 PM

Originally Posted by Anonymous
Everyone is just making things up. Has anyone had an actual issue.? Then stop the BS. This is a very successful business, that has been around for years. No one is going away. These people will work out their personal business issues between partners, and it will be business as usual on the field.


There is a difference between Joe "everyday" and Joe "business man." Joe everyday will allow his emotions to get in the way when making business decisions, whereas Joe business man in most cases allow his intellect be the driving force when making a business decisions. I bet if FL$ opened up their books, the organization will show it's self in the red, especially considering what going on at the present time. It's only business!
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: fl$ Lawsuit - 08/22/18 03:39 PM

Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Everyone is just making things up. Has anyone had an actual issue.? Then stop the BS. This is a very successful business, that has been around for years. No one is going away. These people will work out their personal business issues between partners, and it will be business as usual on the field.


There is a difference between Joe "everyday" and Joe "business man." Joe everyday will allow his emotions to get in the way when making business decisions, whereas Joe business man in most cases allow his intellect be the driving force when making a business decisions. I bet if FL$ opened up their books, the organization will show it's self in the red, especially considering what going on at the present time. It's only business!



In the red, their tuition is $4000 per player.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: fl$ Lawsuit - 08/22/18 04:28 PM

Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Everyone is just making things up. Has anyone had an actual issue.? Then stop the BS. This is a very successful business, that has been around for years. No one is going away. These people will work out their personal business issues between partners, and it will be business as usual on the field.


There is a difference between Joe "everyday" and Joe "business man." Joe everyday will allow his emotions to get in the way when making business decisions, whereas Joe business man in most cases allow his intellect be the driving force when making a business decisions. I bet if FL$ opened up their books, the organization will show it's self in the red, especially considering what going on at the present time. It's only business!



In the red, their tuition is $4000 per player.

No sense in explaining, some just/will not get it...
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: fl$ Lawsuit - 08/22/18 05:05 PM

Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Everyone is just making things up. Has anyone had an actual issue.? Then stop the BS. This is a very successful business, that has been around for years. No one is going away. These people will work out their personal business issues between partners, and it will be business as usual on the field.


There is a difference between Joe "everyday" and Joe "business man." Joe everyday will allow his emotions to get in the way when making business decisions, whereas Joe business man in most cases allow his intellect be the driving force when making a business decisions. I bet if FL$ opened up their books, the organization will show it's self in the red, especially considering what going on at the present time. It's only business!


This suit should be pretty eyeopening. When they did the deal, fl$ was valued at around $3.5MM. As part of this legal action, I expect there will be various exhibits that provide insight into fl$'s current financials.

Ignoring the action itself, it will be interesting to examine a program's cash flow.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: fl$ Lawsuit - 08/22/18 07:06 PM

Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Everyone is just making things up. Has anyone had an actual issue.? Then stop the BS. This is a very successful business, that has been around for years. No one is going away. These people will work out their personal business issues between partners, and it will be business as usual on the field.


There is a difference between Joe "everyday" and Joe "business man." Joe everyday will allow his emotions to get in the way when making business decisions, whereas Joe business man in most cases allow his intellect be the driving force when making a business decisions. I bet if FL$ opened up their books, the organization will show it's self in the red, especially considering what going on at the present time. It's only business!


This suit should be pretty eyeopening. When they did the deal, fl$ was valued at around $3.5MM. As part of this legal action, I expect there will be various exhibits that provide insight into fl$'s current financials.

Ignoring the action itself, it will be interesting to examine a program's cash flow.


Income tax filing. I bet their expenses are higher than their intake. Many ways to funnel expenses back to themselves through the family. Don't forget their teams mostly attend their in house tournaments. Believe me, the majority of the people giving privates lessons are making out very well, avoid paying taxes on the money (cash) they earn. Therefore, it's a crime if you knowingly avoid paying Uncle Sam.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: fl$ Lawsuit - 08/22/18 07:45 PM

Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
because they don't care


It is really none of their business, and will have little to no impact on the teams. This is a business, and businesses get sued all of the time. I have nothing to do with this organization, but know kids who play there, and they are staying because of the coaches that they play for, and the friends that they have been playing with.


how could it be none of there business, if the team folds then what, Winkoff did threaten to bankrupt the organization



Your dealing with accountants so they certainly know how to make the numbers work in their favor. I wouldn't pay your tuition in full.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: fl$ Lawsuit - 08/27/18 11:12 AM

It is amazing people keep making things up. There is no cash in this business. Bankrupt does not mean put of business. Neither would ever happen. Tour dealing in rumors and speculation.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: fl$ Lawsuit - 08/27/18 02:10 PM

Originally Posted by Anonymous
It is amazing people keep making things up. There is no cash in this business. Bankrupt does not mean put of business. Neither would ever happen. Tour dealing in rumors and speculation.


What are you talking about.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: fl$ Lawsuit - 08/27/18 03:07 PM

As of the end of last weeks court results, G.M.W/FL$ has 30 days to catch up to missed payments or the company will have to file for Chapter 11 as of October 2018.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: fl$ Lawsuit - 08/27/18 03:41 PM

Originally Posted by Anonymous
As of the end of last weeks court results, G.M.W/FL$ has 30 days to catch up to missed payments or the company will have to file for Chapter 11 as of October 2018.


Fold, then start up a new company
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: fl$ Lawsuit - 08/27/18 04:17 PM

Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
As of the end of last weeks court results, G.M.W/FL$ has 30 days to catch up to missed payments or the company will have to file for Chapter 11 as of October 2018.


Fold, then start up a new company


thats what Rebels did, and they're still the same family.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: fl$ Lawsuit - 08/27/18 05:09 PM

Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
As of the end of last weeks court results, G.M.W/FL$ has 30 days to catch up to missed payments or the company will have to file for Chapter 11 as of October 2018.


Fold, then start up a new company


thats what Rebels did, and they're still the same family.


Yup, clean slate.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: fl$ Lawsuit - 08/27/18 07:38 PM

Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
As of the end of last weeks court results, G.M.W/FL$ has 30 days to catch up to missed payments or the company will have to file for Chapter 11 as of October 2018.


Fold, then start up a new company


thats what Rebels did, and they're still the same family.


Yup, clean slate.

Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
As of the end of last weeks court results, G.M.W/FL$ has 30 days to catch up to missed payments or the company will have to file for Chapter 11 as of October 2018.


Fold, then start up a new company


thats what Rebels did, and they're still the same family.



That's not what the Rebels did, what happens to the teams if they file chapter 11.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: fl$ Lawsuit - 08/27/18 08:16 PM

Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
As of the end of last weeks court results, G.M.W/FL$ has 30 days to catch up to missed payments or the company will have to file for Chapter 11 as of October 2018.


Fold, then start up a new company


thats what Rebels did, and they're still the same family.


Yup, clean slate.

Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
As of the end of last weeks court results, G.M.W/FL$ has 30 days to catch up to missed payments or the company will have to file for Chapter 11 as of October 2018.


Fold, then start up a new company


thats what Rebels did, and they're still the same family.



That's not what the Rebels did, what happens to the teams if they file chapter 11.


Dissolve "fl$" corp. and start a new one, example FLM
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: fl$ Lawsuit - 08/28/18 03:07 PM

Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
As of the end of last weeks court results, G.M.W/FL$ has 30 days to catch up to missed payments or the company will have to file for Chapter 11 as of October 2018.


Fold, then start up a new company


How much are they behind in missed payments.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: fl$ Lawsuit - 08/28/18 03:41 PM

Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
As of the end of last weeks court results, G.M.W/FL$ has 30 days to catch up to missed payments or the company will have to file for Chapter 11 as of October 2018.


Fold, then start up a new company


thats what Rebels did, and they're still the same family.


Yup, clean slate.

Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
As of the end of last weeks court results, G.M.W/FL$ has 30 days to catch up to missed payments or the company will have to file for Chapter 11 as of October 2018.


Fold, then start up a new company


thats what Rebels did, and they're still the same family.



That's not what the Rebels did, what happens to the teams if they file chapter 11.


Dissolve "fl$" corp. and start a new one, example FLM

------------------


hahaahhaaa
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: fl$ Lawsuit - 08/28/18 06:27 PM

Originally Posted by Anonymous
As of the end of last weeks court results, G.M.W/FL$ has 30 days to catch up to missed payments or the company will have to file for Chapter 11 as of October 2018.

It doesn't say that anywhere in the filed documents for this case. Just supposition in the initial claim that fl$ is threatening to go bankrupt to avoid the payments.
Posted By: laxislife

Re: fl$ Lawsuit - 08/30/18 05:18 PM

Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
As of the end of last weeks court results, G.M.W/FL$ has 30 days to catch up to missed payments or the company will have to file for Chapter 11 as of October 2018.

It doesn't say that anywhere in the filed documents for this case. Just supposition in the initial claim that fl$ is threatening to go bankrupt to avoid the payments.


I also heard that they had 30 days to pay a balance of approx. 150k in back payments so will be interesting to see what fl$ does in the next 26 days or so
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: fl$ Lawsuit - 09/11/18 02:13 PM

Any new news about this lawsuit?
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: fl$ Lawsuit - 09/11/18 06:24 PM

Originally Posted by Anonymous
Any new news about this lawsuit?

Per latest filing....

fl$ was to pay Pioneer $8,333.33 every month for a period of 10 years ($1MM total)

They started paying June 1, 2017 and made subsequent payments in July, august and September. They defaulted in October 2017 and have not made a payment since September 2017. You can do the math.

Per the latest letter from Pioneer's attorneys:
...Mr. Jahelka and Pioneer seek to file a motion for summary judgement dismissing the counterclaims and third-party claims and also for affirmative summary judgement based upon the straightforward payment defaults under the Consulting agreement. In addition, Mr. Jahelka has serious concerns that Mr. Winkoff is using the revenues of fl$ (namely monies that are due to Mr. Jahelka and Pioneer under the Consulting Agreement) for personal and family uses and likely for the funding of this litigation. In addition, based upon the 2017 fl$ tax returns provided to Mr. Jahelka, fl$ as of December 31, 2017 has an outstanding SBA loan of $333,000, along with an open line of credit in the outstanding amount of $91,000. As of the same date, Mr. Winkoff is reported on the returns to owe fl$ approximately $350,000 from "shareholder loans". As a result, Mr. Jahelka and Pioneer see to file with the summary judgement motion an application for an accounting and/or to retain a receiver or monitor to review the books and records of fl$.

In short, @#$^@#$(^ about to get real.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: fl$ Lawsuit - 09/11/18 06:36 PM

Originally Posted by Anonymous
Any new news about this lawsuit?


Let me also add...

The purchase deal was as follows:

Total price: $1,750,000
Paid at closing: $550,000
Due 10/15/2017: $100,000
Due 3/15/2018: $100,000

Consulting Agreement (basically a no interest loan): $1,000,000 to be paid in monthly increments over 10 years
$100,000/year divided into monthly payments of $8,333.33 that were due on the 1st of the month.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: fl$ Lawsuit - 09/11/18 08:04 PM

will the boys be able to keep their helmets
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: fl$ Lawsuit - 09/11/18 08:52 PM

Originally Posted by Anonymous
will the boys be able to keep their helmets

Yes and no.

They have to return 1/120th of it to Jahelka each month.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: fl$ Lawsuit - 09/11/18 11:32 PM

Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Any new news about this lawsuit?

Per latest filing....

fl$ was to pay Pioneer $8,333.33 every month for a period of 10 years ($1MM total)

They started paying June 1, 2017 and made subsequent payments in July, august and September. They defaulted in October 2017 and have not made a payment since September 2017. You can do the math.

Per the latest letter from Pioneer's attorneys:
...Mr. Jahelka and Pioneer seek to file a motion for summary judgement dismissing the counterclaims and third-party claims and also for affirmative summary judgement based upon the straightforward payment defaults under the Consulting agreement. In addition, Mr. Jahelka has serious concerns that Mr. Winkoff is using the revenues of fl$ (namely monies that are due to Mr. Jahelka and Pioneer under the Consulting Agreement) for personal and family uses and likely for the funding of this litigation. In addition, based upon the 2017 fl$ tax returns provided to Mr. Jahelka, fl$ as of December 31, 2017 has an outstanding SBA loan of $333,000, along with an open line of credit in the outstanding amount of $91,000. As of the same date, Mr. Winkoff is reported on the returns to owe fl$ approximately $350,000 from "shareholder loans". As a result, Mr. Jahelka and Pioneer see to file with the summary judgement motion an application for an accounting and/or to retain a receiver or monitor to review the books and records of fl$.

In short, @#$^@#$(^ about to get real.


I'm kind of glad my son didn't make the team this year.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: fl$ Lawsuit - 09/13/18 12:56 PM

So Winky took a 300k loan from his own business. What is he doing with this money besides pay for his daughters wedding? How naive could he be? Thinking this wouldn't catch up with him?
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: fl$ Lawsuit - 09/13/18 02:30 PM

Originally Posted by Anonymous
So Winky took a 300k loan from his own business. What is he doing with this money besides pay for his daughters wedding? How naive could he be? Thinking this wouldn't catch up with him?

He can certainly borrow money from his business, but what if he's positioning things so that the company doesn't have any assets that can be used to pay Jahelka? Based on the letter to the judge that foreshadows their impending motion, it appears that Jahelka believes Winkoff may be diverting assets out of fl$.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: fl$ Lawsuit - 09/13/18 07:25 PM

He'll survive for a while. Its a shell game with the $ with this guy. When its catches up to him and he can't make payroll or rent on the headquarters on Main Street in Huntington it will all fall apart. I would stay far away from this organization.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: fl$ Lawsuit - 09/14/18 01:44 PM

How competitive are their teams, I never see them at any tournaments.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: fl$ Lawsuit - 09/14/18 02:23 PM

Originally Posted by Anonymous
How competitive are their teams, I never see them at any tournaments.


They keep the money in house. They mainly attend their own tournaments.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: fl$ Lawsuit - 09/14/18 10:23 PM

Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
How competitive are their teams, I never see them at any tournaments.


They keep the money in house. They mainly attend their own tournaments.


If its their own tournaments they must be making a fortune off them, $4000 for tuition, and this guy can't make the payments.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: fl$ Lawsuit - 09/15/18 12:26 PM

Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
How competitive are their teams, I never see them at any tournaments.


They keep the money in house. They mainly attend their own tournaments.


If its their own tournaments they must be making a fortune off them, $4000 for tuition, and this guy can't make the payments.


You are assuming he can't make his payment. More likely he does not *want* to make some specific payments.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: fl$ Lawsuit - 09/15/18 04:35 PM

Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
How competitive are their teams, I never see them at any tournaments.


They keep the money in house. They mainly attend their own tournaments.


If its their own tournaments they must be making a fortune off them, $4000 for tuition, and this guy can't make the payments.


You are assuming he can't make his payment. More likely he does not *want* to make some specific payments.


That's even worst
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: fl$ Lawsuit - 09/16/18 11:01 PM

Especially for an organization the preaches integrity, sportsmanship. What a joke. I don't think winky wll be winning any STUDLETE awards. He certainly won't earn the right to "wear 19".
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: fl$ Lawsuit - 09/17/18 03:30 PM

Have any of you considered perhaps there was a breach of contract by the entity not getting paid leading to the current situation??? Hmmmm.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: fl$ Lawsuit - 09/17/18 05:06 PM

Originally Posted by Anonymous
Have any of you considered perhaps there was a breach of contract by the entity not getting paid leading to the current situation??? Hmmmm.


Have you considered reading the complaint and answer? If you had, you would have also seen the consulting agreement which is basically a fancy way for fl$ to pay Jahelka in monthly increments. The agreement, which was for 10 years/$1MM is pretty specific - you pay whether or not Pioneer renders any services.

If there was a breach of contract, that most certainly would have been brought up in fl$'s answer to the complaint. Instead, fl$ claims that both parties were represented by the same law firm and that Winkoff had no idea what he was signing because Winkoff claims he had no idea Pioneer had to be paid no matter what.

All of this was addressed in the September 7th filings, complete with supporting emails and documents, showing that Winkoff was well aware of what he was signing and knew that the law firm was representing fl$, not Jahelka nor Winkoff.

My comments have and always will be based on the documents filed with the court, not supposition.

And for those following at home, this case has the potential to provide great insight into the financial operations of a club/organizer. If you've ever wondered how these clubs make money, this case is not to be missed.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: fl$ Lawsuit - 09/17/18 06:57 PM

Good point about looking behind the curtain. From help wanted ads for coaches it looks like 5K per season plus free for your kid. I doubt giant clubs pay full price at these tourneys when then bring 10 teams to a stay to play. Say a club has 16 teams of 20 players each at 2K per, 640K of revenue per year. 80K for coach salaries plus 40K free go for coaches children. 200K max for tourney entry fees. heck 100K for field rental/ indoor space etc. That leaves around 250K for admin fees, insurance, marketing, equipment and most important director/owners salary. 150k salary/year possible? I realize most clubs are not that big but some of the cost's will decrease year over year especially if you own your practice facility or host own tournaments. Kickbacks for "Stay to play" etc. Comparison in girls Lax would be HOCO team which is part of howard county rec and parks, free fields, non paid coaches. Fees are around half of private clubs, 1K per kid. I am sure they all make HOCO pay full price at tourneys as well.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: fl$ Lawsuit - 09/17/18 08:17 PM

In addition, 3d lacrosse is filing a lawsuit against True Lacrosse. More behind the curtain opportunities. I think what is interesting is that these clubs along with fl$ are the most expensive clubs in the sport.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: fl$ Lawsuit - 11/19/18 08:12 PM

The landlord of their 345 Main Street store front is now suing FLG due to breach of contract of their lease. They have missed rent payments from July 2018-Present.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: fl$ Lawsuit - 11/19/18 08:48 PM

this is a smart, organized, legal path to insolvency and bankruptcy to avoid paying what is owed. Its legal and shady in the same breath.

Too much money in youth sports which leads to absolutely nothing for all but 2% of high school athletes that go on to receive athletic money in college
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: fl$ Lawsuit - 11/21/18 12:27 AM

At what point do you avoid everything to do with this organization, including the multiple tournaments and showcases they run on LI and elsewhere? What is stopping them from taking the money and then playing the bankruptcy card?
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: fl$ Lawsuit - 11/21/18 02:00 PM

They provide good exposure and good training. Whatever is going on behind the curtain is their problem. Completely satisfied with what is going on in front of the curtain. I'll save my martyrism for other facets of my life. lets see, I could go to Chan, alexgreaseballigloo, crumbling outlaws, db 88+3... please with the holier than thou rhetoric-they are all crooks.
Posted By: NassauLaxDad516

Re: fl$ Lawsuit - 11/21/18 04:02 PM

Originally Posted by Anonymous
At what point do you avoid everything to do with this organization, including the multiple tournaments and showcases they run on LI and elsewhere? What is stopping them from taking the money and then playing the bankruptcy card?


They can easily do this which is concerning. There events have already been declining and so have their teams which is evident so cash flow is certainly an issue and one that I would not want to get involved with if I was a Team thinking about going to one of their events or an individual going to one of their LI showcases...
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: fl$ Lawsuit - 11/21/18 04:42 PM

Originally Posted by NassauLaxDad516
Originally Posted by Anonymous
At what point do you avoid everything to do with this organization, including the multiple tournaments and showcases they run on LI and elsewhere? What is stopping them from taking the money and then playing the bankruptcy card?


They can easily do this which is concerning. There events have already been declining and so have their teams which is evident so cash flow is certainly an issue and one that I would not want to get involved with if I was a Team thinking about going to one of their events or an individual going to one of their LI showcases...

I am not an FL$ parent but I have been around a team that fell apart. The primary value in any team is the coaches. If I had a kid and liked this program I would speak with other parents and the coaches and have an exit plan ready if the team folded. It would not be hard to buy new uniforms and rent a field. Enter tournaments. What cannot be replaced is the coaches and players. Keeping that together and the teams may end in a better place.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: fl$ Lawsuit - 11/21/18 05:31 PM

FLG Tournaments DO not get top teams anymore. Charge way too much
Flg Travels teams are average, but charge big money.
3d Has teams everywhere that are also not good
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: fl$ Lawsuit - 11/21/18 06:46 PM

Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by NassauLaxDad516
Originally Posted by Anonymous
At what point do you avoid everything to do with this organization, including the multiple tournaments and showcases they run on LI and elsewhere? What is stopping them from taking the money and then playing the bankruptcy card?


They can easily do this which is concerning. There events have already been declining and so have their teams which is evident so cash flow is certainly an issue and one that I would not want to get involved with if I was a Team thinking about going to one of their events or an individual going to one of their LI showcases...

I am not an FL$ parent but I have been around a team that fell apart. The primary value in any team is the coaches. If I had a kid and liked this program I would speak with other parents and the coaches and have an exit plan ready if the team folded. It would not be hard to buy new uniforms and rent a field. Enter tournaments. What cannot be replaced is the coaches and players. Keeping that together and the teams may end in a better place.


GO OUTLAWS
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: fl$ Lawsuit - 11/21/18 07:28 PM

GO OUTLAWS[/quote]


GO AWAY
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: fl$ Lawsuit - 11/21/18 07:38 PM

Originally Posted by Anonymous
this is a smart, organized, legal path to insolvency and bankruptcy to avoid paying what is owed. Its legal and shady in the same breath.

Too much money in youth sports which leads to absolutely nothing for all but 2% of high school athletes that go on to receive athletic money in college



laughing all the way to the bank!
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: fl$ Lawsuit - 11/21/18 10:52 PM

FL$ had a really good product for a few years. They had one team in each grade and hadn't gotten into 5 year old travel lacrosse or trying to be in the tournament and showcase business. Their teams were good and considered both exclusive and competitive. Then they expanded too quickly and diluted their talent by adding Suffolk teams. You didn't see them at the best tournaments as they increasingly opted for the 3d events based on their partnership with that organization. Add to that their running over-priced, second-tier showcases and things really began to unravel. Along the way they had their Chaminade feud which caused many talented players to leave. And in the 2020 year they went "all in" on Manhasset only to see those dads turn on them and pull their kids to join the Turtles. Just one bad decision after another....
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: fl$ Lawsuit - 11/22/18 01:18 AM

The Fish Rots From The Head
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: fl$ Lawsuit - 11/23/18 09:34 PM

yellow jackets on the girls side did the same thing. went from elite to anyone who writes a check makes a team. Nothing elite about that!
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: fl$ Lawsuit - 11/24/18 12:50 AM

Originally Posted by Anonymous
FL$ had a really good product for a few years. They had one team in each grade and hadn't gotten into 5 year old travel lacrosse or trying to be in the tournament and showcase business. Their teams were good and considered both exclusive and competitive. Then they expanded too quickly and diluted their talent by adding Suffolk teams. You didn't see them at the best tournaments as they increasingly opted for the 3d events based on their partnership with that organization. Add to that their running over-priced, second-tier showcases and things really began to unravel. Along the way they had their Chaminade feud which caused many talented players to leave. And in the 2020 year they went "all in" on Manhasset only to see those dads turn on them and pull their kids to join the Turtles. Just one bad decision after another....



What was the Chaminade feud?
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: fl$ Lawsuit - 11/24/18 01:16 AM

Originally Posted by Anonymous
yellow jackets on the girls side did the same thing. went from elite to anyone who writes a check makes a team. Nothing elite about that!


The difference for YJ is that their top team is generally in the top 5 nationally. The top team is elite, the program makes money from the others.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: fl$ Lawsuit - 12/05/18 01:16 PM

For those watching at home - an update on the court case.

As you may recall, according to Jahelka, Winkoff agreed to purchase FLG for $1.75MM, structures as $750K in cash and $1MM paid out on a monthly basis via a 10 year consulting agreement which was to be paid regardless of whether or not services were rendered.

In FLG's latest filings, Winkoff claims that he never agreed to paying $1.75MM for the business but rather agreed to pay $750K because the business itself is worth "less than" $1.5MM. He was tricked into signing the consulting agreement because it was worded ambiguously and he didn't understand it.

Two motions waiting for the judge - one to dismiss the claim against the lawyers who drew up the deal (who said they were not representing either party but rather were just memorializing the deal) and another for summary judgement against FLG.

Assuming no more delays, we'll have an answer to the above before Christmas.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: fl$ Lawsuit - 12/05/18 03:36 PM

$1.7m for a company name and a list of "yearly free agent players and coaches"

watch HBO Real sports this month. Talks about the insanity that is the cost of youth sports that's leads to NOTHING....
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: fl$ Lawsuit - 12/05/18 03:45 PM

Originally Posted by Anonymous
For those watching at home - an update on the court case.

As you may recall, according to Jahelka, Winkoff agreed to purchase FLG for $1.75MM, structures as $750K in cash and $1MM paid out on a monthly basis via a 10 year consulting agreement which was to be paid regardless of whether or not services were rendered.

In FLG's latest filings, Winkoff claims that he never agreed to paying $1.75MM for the business but rather agreed to pay $750K because the business itself is worth "less than" $1.5MM. He was tricked into signing the consulting agreement because it was worded ambiguously and he didn't understand it.

Two motions waiting for the judge - one to dismiss the claim against the lawyers who drew up the deal (who said they were not representing either party but rather were just memorializing the deal) and another for summary judgement against FLG.

Assuming no more delays, we'll have an answer to the above before Christmas.


So is the tuition going up?
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: fl$ Lawsuit - 12/06/18 05:32 PM

Both will be tossed and and business will carry on as usual. Bank on it.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: fl$ Lawsuit - 12/06/18 05:39 PM

the Chaminade feud was that the flg kids are supposed to be committed to FLG for the 6 week and only 6 week tournament season and they let you attend everything else ad hoc to accommodate kids other interest/sports and commitments. Chaminade decided to enter a tournament and it was expected all the kids go with Chaminade. It stripped the flg team to barely able to field a team screwing their teammates that they had made a commitment to and they were given an ultimatum-rightly so in my view. Any other 46 weeks out of the year, but not their 6 in week season...
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: fl$ Lawsuit - 12/06/18 07:02 PM

Originally Posted by Anonymous
the Chaminade feud was that the flg kids are supposed to be committed to FLG for the 6 week and only 6 week tournament season and they let you attend everything else ad hoc to accommodate kids other interest/sports and commitments. Chaminade decided to enter a tournament and it was expected all the kids go with Chaminade. It stripped the flg team to barely able to field a team screwing their teammates that they had made a commitment to and they were given an ultimatum-rightly so in my view. Any other 46 weeks out of the year, but not their 6 in week season...


awwww you pathetic lost!!!!!
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: fl$ Lawsuit - 12/06/18 08:00 PM

You forgot to mention that the CHS coach eventually forbade any Chaminade players from playing for this travel team. Not sure if that is still the case, but getting into a fight with one of the top 2 catholic school coaches on LI probably not a good way to grow a youth lacrosse business.
But, I think the thing that really has hurt them, at least in my boys grade, is that the program likes to "turn over" or cut half the team almost every year. They end up alienating a lot of people. This youth sports business runs on word of mouth. It's a people business. Acting like an jerk makes people not like you or your business.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: fl$ Lawsuit - 12/06/18 09:19 PM

"But, I think the thing that really has hurt them, at least in my boys grade, is that the program likes to "turn over" or cut half the team almost every year. They end up alienating a lot of people."

Exactly our experience. Fell for and bought into the whole "Studlete" BS for a few seasons only to find out that FLG really doesn't practice what it preaches. They continue to go above and beyond by broadcasting how invested they are in instilling values and shaping the lives of young lax players. The irony of them now being sued for the reason(s) that they are is priceless.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: fl$ Lawsuit - 12/06/18 09:58 PM

My 2 cents.......If FLG or any club is being counted on to "instill values and shape lives of young lax players" then the PARENTS have failed. The last thing any parent should do is count on some "club lacrosse coach" to instill life values.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: fl$ Lawsuit - 12/06/18 11:26 PM

Originally Posted by Anonymous
My 2 cents.......If FLG or any club is being counted on to "instill values and shape lives of young lax players" then the PARENTS have failed. The last thing any parent should do is count on some "club lacrosse coach" to instill life values.


Put your 2 cents back in your pocket. There was no implication of counting on that. It’s what they preach. If you played for them you would know.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: fl$ Lawsuit - 12/07/18 02:45 PM

So the Chaminade coach forbade players for playing for FLG. Shocker. What else happens due to this? Players get driven toward Express... conflict of interest there? Certainly seems convenient.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: fl$ Lawsuit - 12/07/18 02:47 PM

Turnover for the most part is due to the helicopter parents maneuvering to find a team where their kid will be the star...you'd think by the fourth team they would've figured out it is what it is...
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: fl$ Lawsuit - 12/07/18 02:57 PM

Everyone throws money at these programs like lemmings. Get a tutor for your kid and get them off the wall. It will serve them better for college and beyond. Im sure parents could replace their sideline drinking buddies with actual real and loyal friends if they tried
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: fl$ Lawsuit - 12/07/18 03:30 PM

Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
My 2 cents.......If FLG or any club is being counted on to "instill values and shape lives of young lax players" then the PARENTS have failed. The last thing any parent should do is count on some "club lacrosse coach" to instill life values.


Put your 2 cents back in your pocket. There was no implication of counting on that. It’s what they preach. If you played for them you would know.


And there you have it.....I didn't and wouldn't have my kid play for them. You will need my 2 cents to cover the yearly fee that FLG charges which is highly overpriced. Have a Merry Christmas.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: fl$ Lawsuit - 12/08/18 12:53 PM

FLG made a deal with a bunch of Manhasset daddies only to see them cut and run (big surprise) for Turtlea. How did that work out? Not quite Tenacious Turtles of old despite all the predictions of greatness! FLG jumped the shark. They used to have some good teams.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: fl$ Lawsuit - 12/08/18 06:20 PM

Originally Posted by Anonymous
Turnover for the most part is due to the helicopter parents maneuvering to find a team where their kid will be the star...you'd think by the fourth team they would've figured out it is what it is...


Dumbest post I've ever heard. If your son stays on a team during the recruiting years where he is not a starter or major contributor, you're wasting your money and your kids time. Particularly if you honestly believe your son is a D1 player and has D1 aspirations. Been though the process twice. Last son was on four teams. First one, the Coaches kid played same position. Need I say more? Next one (FLG) was cut after leading the team in scoring for a GC kid that never got a D1 sniff. Next team he was a superstar and received high D1 interest, Director was clueless and could not "get coaches on the phone". Last and final was fantastic, plenty of top 25 interest, Ivy and Patriot. Coach and Director in constant contact with College Coaches. Kid landed at perfect fit for him academically and athletically, with great $$$ athletic scholarship. Unless your kid is the next, Rabil, Thompson or Baptise you had better be a Helicopter parent and take control of the recruiting process. If you think a 16 year old has any clue of what he's actually doing in this process you're more naïve than him. These Coaches are cut throat and will eat your kid alive if you're asleep at the switch. And yes, keep moving travel teams until you find one where the support and fit are right.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: fl$ Lawsuit - 12/10/18 04:54 AM

Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Turnover for the most part is due to the helicopter parents maneuvering to find a team where their kid will be the star...you'd think by the fourth team they would've figured out it is what it is...


Dumbest post I've ever heard. If your son stays on a team during the recruiting years where he is not a starter or major contributor, you're wasting your money and your kids time. Particularly if you honestly believe your son is a D1 player and has D1 aspirations. Been though the process twice. Last son was on four teams. First one, the Coaches kid played same position. Need I say more? Next one (FLG) was cut after leading the team in scoring for a GC kid that never got a D1 sniff. Next team he was a superstar and received high D1 interest, Director was clueless and could not "get coaches on the phone". Last and final was fantastic, plenty of top 25 interest, Ivy and Patriot. Coach and Director in constant contact with College Coaches. Kid landed at perfect fit for him academically and athletically, with great $$$ athletic scholarship. Unless your kid is the next, Rabil, Thompson or Baptise you had better be a Helicopter parent and take control of the recruiting process. If you think a 16 year old has any clue of what he's actually doing in this process you're more naïve than him. These Coaches are cut throat and will eat your kid alive if you're asleep at the switch. And yes, keep moving travel teams until you find one where the support and fit are right.

Agreed!
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: fl$ Lawsuit - 12/10/18 01:36 PM

Glad it worked out.

In most cases if your kid is not a star he will continue to not be a star no matter where you move him. But people will keep blaming the program when their kid is not recruited-maybe he just isn't as good a player as his Mom and Dad think he is or want him to be. Few people look in the mirror these days when its so easy to just dump the blame on some other entity.

There my $.02 you can put towards the FL$ fee.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: fl$ Lawsuit - 12/10/18 01:46 PM

The above post kind of shows why this sport is despised by most casual players and parents. The me first, I gotta get mine because my kid needs or better yet I NEED as a parent for my kid to get recruited. To heck with the team or my teammates its all about me! And everyone wonders why their are ball hogs?

Lacrosse is a great team sport. To the two posters above, remember that because lacrosse is a dead end sport so do you want your kid to be remembered as a good teammate or a donk with the crazy parents?
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: fl$ Lawsuit - 12/10/18 04:20 PM

"The above post "

Assume you are referring to the post that begins "dumbest post I have ever..."
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: fl$ Lawsuit - 12/10/18 08:58 PM

Should be more leaving less staying. "If your kid is not a star he will continue to be not a star no matter where you move him..." Yet if you don't move him you already have your answer. Vague promises? Program reputation? Leave! Find somewhere to play. Loyalty of program to player is near zero. It should be returned in kind.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: fl$ Lawsuit - 12/11/18 01:01 PM

Not a star on Team X. Move to team Y;still not a star. Move to team Z; nope still not a star. Drop down to B program; ah, at least he is on man up now. Where's my scholarship???? Delusional.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: fl$ Lawsuit - 12/11/18 04:15 PM

So stay on team X is your answer. Idiotic.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: fl$ Lawsuit - 12/11/18 06:36 PM

Its not the program! It's your kid! He is what he is!
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: fl$ Lawsuit - 12/11/18 07:32 PM

Originally Posted by Anonymous
Its not the program! It's your kid! He is what he is!


I think you are right......BUT there are cases of kids who flourish under different coaching. Sometimes a kid just needs a fresh start with a new coach. At all levels (even the pros ) players can sometimes really take off when they change their scenery.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: fl$ Lawsuit - 12/11/18 07:48 PM

Merging FLG and Outlaws would be a great idea.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: fl$ Lawsuit - 12/11/18 08:20 PM

Originally Posted by Anonymous
Merging FLG and Outlaws would be a great idea.


The clash of parents would be epic....tats vs. totes
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: fl$ Lawsuit - 12/11/18 09:09 PM

LOL. Some lower back tats for the flg moms and some pastels and sleeves with shirts for the Outlaw folks. Funny.

"I think you are right......BUT there are cases of kids who flourish under different coaching. Sometimes a kid just needs a fresh start with a new coach. At all levels (even the pros ) players can sometimes really take off when they change their scenery."

I can agree with the above statement.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: fl$ Lawsuit - 12/12/18 12:55 AM

Club matters..... a lot. You think all those kids committing from top clubs are the best? Some definitely are, but others not so much. If you are not seen you cannot get recruited. Terps, 91, Legacy got to the top events and have pull to get kids into Showtime and other top events. Getting into Showtime is perhaps the most important. Kids who do well there get pursued heavily after 9/1. FLG jdo ant seem to have that kind of pull anymore.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: fl$ Lawsuit - 12/12/18 02:37 PM

Originally Posted by Anonymous
Club matters..... a lot. You think all those kids committing from top clubs are the best? Some definitely are, but others not so much. If you are not seen you cannot get recruited. Terps, 91, Legacy got to the top events and have pull to get kids into Showtime and other top events. Getting into Showtime is perhaps the most important. Kids who do well there get pursued heavily after 9/1. FLG jdo ant seem to have that kind of pull anymore.


Completely disagree. Yes a club gets more looks. Its easier to make to the NFL playing on Alabama with 12mplayers drafted last year than it was for Carson Wentz to make it to the pro's coming out of North Dakota HOWEVER if your kid is on Alabama and doesn't see the field or only plays when they are up by 30 do you think scouts like that? If your kid is above average its better for him to be the "man" on a B team/club no question (but you will have to work a little harder with colleges to get a look). Good coaches know talent. Lazy coaches just look at the big name clubs. And not to burst your bubble but the average tenure of college lacrosse coaches except for the big guys is about 2 years which means the vast majority of players will play for a different coach than recruits them. PICK A SCHOOL that you ant to be at if you stop playing lacrosse
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: fl$ Lawsuit - 01/17/19 02:57 PM

Whats going on with this lawsuit?
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: fl$ Lawsuit - 01/17/19 05:05 PM

Originally Posted by Anonymous
Whats going on with this lawsuit?


Pioneer submitted a motion for summary judgement that was marked fully submitted on the 11th. Courts have 60 days to decide.

Pioneer submitted evidence that there was an agreement to pay $1MM of the purchase price over 10 years via a consulting contract. Winkoff disagrees and says that he never would have paid that much for the business.

Seems to me Winkoff realized he overpaid for FLG and decided to stiff Jahelka. His defense is that he didn't understand the contract.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: fl$ Lawsuit - 01/17/19 06:02 PM

Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Whats going on with this lawsuit?


Pioneer submitted a motion for summary judgement that was marked fully submitted on the 11th. Courts have 60 days to decide.

Pioneer submitted evidence that there was an agreement to pay $1MM of the purchase price over 10 years via a consulting contract. Winkoff disagrees and says that he never would have paid that much for the business.

Seems to me Winkoff realized he overpaid for FLG and decided to stiff Jahelka. His defense is that he didn't understand the contract.


Terrible businessman. They don't even help the parents with financial issues or family logistics. Club keeps getting worse. I wonder how long they will keep overpaying for the useless storefront.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: fl$ Lawsuit - 01/17/19 09:25 PM

Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Whats going on with this lawsuit?


Pioneer submitted a motion for summary judgement that was marked fully submitted on the 11th. Courts have 60 days to decide.

Pioneer submitted evidence that there was an agreement to pay $1MM of the purchase price over 10 years via a consulting contract. Winkoff disagrees and says that he never would have paid that much for the business.

Seems to me Winkoff realized he overpaid for FLG and decided to stiff Jahelka. His defense is that he didn't understand the contract.


Terrible businessman. They don't even help the parents with financial issues or family logistics. Club keeps getting worse. I wonder how long they will keep overpaying for the useless storefront.


FLG will keep overpaying until many parents pull the plug on the tuition. Additionally, the court may ask, a person with Winkoff's business knowledge and history of business transactions take reasonable steps to fully understand the contract (deal) he agreed to.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: fl$ Lawsuit - 01/17/19 11:15 PM

It seems like everything is just fine, training continues, they are out with a lax magazine (this year its not free there is a fee), and they do a weekly show.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: fl$ Lawsuit - 01/19/19 09:04 AM

Originally Posted by Anonymous
It seems like everything is just fine, training continues, they are out with a lax magazine (this year its not free there is a fee), and they do a weekly show.


Yes I agree, these guys are all over the place doing shows, interviews with lax sports network, they are promoting and bringing more attention to FLG
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: fl$ Lawsuit - 01/20/19 01:07 AM

With the loss of Mike quick and msg varsity. His timing couldn't be better. There is a market, this is the time to capitalize on it, let's see where it goes.
Posted By: NassauLaxDad516

Re: fl$ Lawsuit - 01/20/19 01:22 AM

BOTC should do something like the journal like NE Lax Journal. They have a much larger audience and every club team from LI which have a ton of HS coaches use this site so I think it would make more sense.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: fl$ Lawsuit - 01/20/19 03:58 AM

Originally Posted by Anonymous
It seems like everything is just fine, training continues, they are out with a lax magazine (this year its not free there is a fee), and they do a weekly show.


Sounds like business is good. Also sounds like Winkoff didn't overpay for such a great business after all.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: fl$ Lawsuit - 01/20/19 08:19 PM

Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
It seems like everything is just fine, training continues, they are out with a lax magazine (this year its not free there is a fee), and they do a weekly show.


Sounds like business is good. Also sounds like Winkoff didn't overpay for such a great business after all.


or he (they) can turn something around/reinvent themselves with laxpower down and again no MSG Varsity (and Mike Quick) there is a hole to be filled.

Who was that guy that did the li football weekly vlog. I see more and more of that happening.

The best thing for them (FLG) will be how diverse they can get, without just putting the name brand schools and players. There is so much more than Ward Melville, Massapequa and Garden City.

Should be interesting and I for one am looking forward to it
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: fl$ Lawsuit - 01/21/19 12:50 AM

Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Whats going on with this lawsuit?


Pioneer submitted a motion for summary judgement that was marked fully submitted on the 11th. Courts have 60 days to decide.

Pioneer submitted evidence that there was an agreement to pay $1MM of the purchase price over 10 years via a consulting contract. Winkoff disagrees and says that he never would have paid that much for the business.

Seems to me Winkoff realized he overpaid for FLG and decided to stiff Jahelka. His defense is that he didn't understand the contract.


Didn't think ignorance was a defense. I guess we will all see. I do like what FLG is turning into. If they can present themselves the way they have recently been on the Podcast and social media, I think things are looking good.

As for the other side, are they proven cheaters, and their position tainted?
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: fl$ Lawsuit - 01/21/19 01:17 PM

Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Whats going on with this lawsuit?


Pioneer submitted a motion for summary judgement that was marked fully submitted on the 11th. Courts have 60 days to decide.

Pioneer submitted evidence that there was an agreement to pay $1MM of the purchase price over 10 years via a consulting contract. Winkoff disagrees and says that he never would have paid that much for the business.

Seems to me Winkoff realized he overpaid for FLG and decided to stiff Jahelka. His defense is that he didn't understand the contract.


Didn't think ignorance was a defense. I guess we will all see. I do like what FLG is turning into. If they can present themselves the way they have recently been on the Podcast and social media, I think things are looking good.

As for the other side, are they proven cheaters, and their position tainted?


Winkoff claims that the consulting agreement (which is at the core of this legal battle) is ambiguous therefore the interpretation of the non-authoring party prevails. There is a general rule that a court will construe ambiguous contract terms against the drafter of the agreement. But this rule only applies where one contracting party is in a superior bargaining position, usually either as a result of greater experience or the assistance of counsel.

The total negotiated sale price, according to Jahelka, was $1.75MM. Winkoff paid $750K in cash but the other $1MM was to be paid over 10 years ($100K/year) via a consulting contract with Jahelka's consulting company, Pioneer. Payments were to be made regardless of whether or not services were rendered. The consulting contract and emails presented appear to show that Winkoff had an understanding of both the price and the terms and conditions of the consulting contract.

Are they proven cheaters? Well, no, not yet, anyway. Is their position tainted? If what Jahelka alleges is true, Winkoff is trying to steal $1MM from him. Does that taint FLG?

We shall see.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: fl$ Lawsuit - 01/22/19 01:07 AM

Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Whats going on with this lawsuit?


Pioneer submitted a motion for summary judgement that was marked fully submitted on the 11th. Courts have 60 days to decide.

Pioneer submitted evidence that there was an agreement to pay $1MM of the purchase price over 10 years via a consulting contract. Winkoff disagrees and says that he never would have paid that much for the business.

Seems to me Winkoff realized he overpaid for FLG and decided to stiff Jahelka. His defense is that he didn't understand the contract.


Didn't think ignorance was a defense. I guess we will all see. I do like what FLG is turning into. If they can present themselves the way they have recently been on the Podcast and social media, I think things are looking good.

As for the other side, are they proven cheaters, and their position tainted?


Winkoff claims that the consulting agreement (which is at the core of this legal battle) is ambiguous therefore the interpretation of the non-authoring party prevails. There is a general rule that a court will construe ambiguous contract terms against the drafter of the agreement. But this rule only applies where one contracting party is in a superior bargaining position, usually either as a result of greater experience or the assistance of counsel.

The total negotiated sale price, according to Jahelka, was $1.75MM. Winkoff paid $750K in cash but the other $1MM was to be paid over 10 years ($100K/year) via a consulting contract with Jahelka's consulting company, Pioneer. Payments were to be made regardless of whether or not services were rendered. The consulting contract and emails presented appear to show that Winkoff had an understanding of both the price and the terms and conditions of the consulting contract.

Are they proven cheaters? Well, no, not yet, anyway. Is their position tainted? If what Jahelka alleges is true, Winkoff is trying to steal $1MM from him. Does that taint FLG?

We shall see.


Wasn't thinking the FLG position as tainted (or anything else), but i think you knew that and tried to spin it around. Nice try.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: fl$ Lawsuit - 01/22/19 07:08 PM

Originally Posted by Anonymous
With the loss of Mike quick and msg varsity. His timing couldn't be better. There is a market, this is the time to capitalize on it, let's see where it goes.


PLease Stop, the only ones watching my kids games now is the parents. Nobody cares! Everybody knows its a selfish game with families trying to get recruited
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: fl$ Lawsuit - 01/28/19 02:59 PM

"Everybody knows its a selfish game with families trying to get recruited". SO TRUE. Everyone thinks its a vehicle to get somewhere else...
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: fl$ Lawsuit - 01/29/19 03:36 PM

As of a court ruling yesterday, FLG Lacrosse has 30 days to catch up on their missed payments. If they don't catch up they will have to dissolve the business and it's assets. Highly doubt they will be able to fulfill these missed payments. If they don't they have 60 days from there. Doesn't look like they will make it to the summer season.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: fl$ Lawsuit - 01/29/19 04:14 PM

I hope you are wrong. That would be a disappointment to many of the children they currently have rostered. Though it sounds like it would make you happy.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: fl$ Lawsuit - 01/29/19 05:59 PM

Don't be the last guy holding those Toys R Us gift cards.

Sell Mortimer Sell!
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: fl$ Lawsuit - 01/29/19 07:06 PM

Originally Posted by Anonymous
As of a court ruling yesterday, FLG Lacrosse has 30 days to catch up on their missed payments. If they don't catch up they will have to dissolve the business and it's assets. Highly doubt they will be able to fulfill these missed payments. If they don't they have 60 days from there. Doesn't look like they will make it to the summer season.


Where do you see that? I don't see any updates to the docket and it would be pretty amazing for a judge to rule so quickly given that the request for summary judgement was fully submitted on the 11th.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: fl$ Lawsuit - 01/29/19 10:00 PM

Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
As of a court ruling yesterday, FLG Lacrosse has 30 days to catch up on their missed payments. If they don't catch up they will have to dissolve the business and it's assets. Highly doubt they will be able to fulfill these missed payments. If they don't they have 60 days from there. Doesn't look like they will make it to the summer season.


Where do you see that? I don't see any updates to the docket and it would be pretty amazing for a judge to rule so quickly given that the request for summary judgement was fully submitted on the 11th.


If true, it's time to get got of dodge before it's too late...
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: fl$ Lawsuit - 01/30/19 02:34 PM

Dodge is just fine and a good place to be. I hope they remain viable. With various kids have been with Igloo and Express and like this program the best. If the doomsday you predict actually comes, well there is certainly no shortage of lacrosse programs on LI to choose from. Your trolling will have no effect angry man... Lacrosse and program is good. Disagreement between former partners has zero impact on current product offering-hope that doesn't change.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: fl$ Lawsuit - 01/31/19 07:37 PM

follow your coach if your happy. They will all land somewhere. The sport is full of mercinaries
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: fl$ Lawsuit - 03/13/19 01:42 AM

Has there been any recent updates to the case? Is it business as usual for FLG or are they in they process of dissolving?
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: fl$ Lawsuit - 03/13/19 12:12 PM

Originally Posted by Anonymous
Has there been any recent updates to the case? Is it business as usual for FLG or are they in they process of dissolving?


Pioneer/Jahelka submitted a motion for summary judgement on 1/11/19. There has been no decision yet, but the court is supposed to rule within 60 days which is basically right around the corner though courts often do not meet the 60 day timeline.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: fl$ Lawsuit - 03/13/19 01:48 PM

Business and training as usual...
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: fl$ Lawsuit - 03/13/19 05:06 PM

Wlll they be filing for bankruptcy to avoid any remuneration?
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: fl$ Lawsuit - 04/04/19 07:14 PM

Update on FLG litigation - the judge has "ruled" on the summary judgement.

Interlocutory Order issued 3/29. All partied ordered to appear before the court on April 16th for "a conference in aid of disposition thereof."

This is where the judge is likely to encourage the parties to resolve this issue.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: fl$ Lawsuit - 04/08/19 01:32 PM

Doomsday calls a bit premature...LOL. Move along.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: fl$ Lawsuit - 04/08/19 02:30 PM

Originally Posted by Anonymous
Doomsday calls a bit premature...LOL. Move along.


Not so fast. If Jahelka's claims are valid, FLG owes him around a million dollars, payable immediately. Don't underestimate the impact of such a large payout, or worse, the actions FLG might take to avoid the payment altogether. That's always been the issue here - can FLG survive financially.

Ethical issues aside, it's all about the Benjamins.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: fl$ Lawsuit - 04/08/19 03:16 PM

Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Doomsday calls a bit premature...LOL. Move along.


Not so fast. If Jahelka's claims are valid, FLG owes him around a million dollars, payable immediately. Don't underestimate the impact of such a large payout, or worse, the actions FLG might take to avoid the payment altogether. That's always been the issue here - can FLG survive financially.

Ethical issues aside, it's all about the Benjamins.


Will Jahelka be coaching my son? Should I see if he can get on a new club?
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: fl$ Lawsuit - 04/08/19 05:02 PM

If, if if. For certainly the spring and summer seasons nothing to see here move along.

And anyone casting judgement here really has no idea the discussions or relationship between the two sides leading to this so lets reserve judgement on which party is acting unethical.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: fl$ Lawsuit - 04/08/19 05:53 PM

Originally Posted by Anonymous
If, if if. For certainly the spring and summer seasons nothing to see here move along.

And anyone casting judgement here really has no idea the discussions or relationship between the two sides leading to this so lets reserve judgement on which party is acting unethical.


Court documents speak for themselves. Two parties agreed to terms and then one party decided he overpaid. That about sum it up for you?
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: fl$ Lawsuit - 04/08/19 07:25 PM

No, it doesn't. Because if no judgement is handed down or it is dismissed then it was brought without merit to begin with. Do you understand that logic? Innocent until proven guilty is I believe how US law works. So not rushing to judgement either way.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: fl$ Lawsuit - 04/08/19 08:30 PM

Originally Posted by Anonymous
No, it doesn't. Because if no judgement is handed down or it is dismissed then it was brought without merit to begin with. Do you understand that logic? Innocent until proven guilty is I believe how US law works. So not rushing to judgement either way.


There hasn't even been a trial or discovery. The plaintiff (Jahelka) submitted a motion for summary judgement. The defendant, FLG, didn't submit a motion for dismissal or anything like that.

FLG agreed to a purchase price and payout terms. He now says he didn't understand the terms (even though there is email evidence that he did and that he spoke to his own attorney) and that he never agreed to the price (again email evidence that he did in fact agree to that price.)
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: fl$ Lawsuit - 04/08/19 10:41 PM

Originally Posted by Anonymous
No, it doesn't. Because if no judgement is handed down or it is dismissed then it was brought without merit to begin with. Do you understand that logic? Innocent until proven guilty is I believe how US law works. So not rushing to judgement either way.


There is "guilt" or "innocence" in tort law - please do us all a favor and disregard thr law degree you found in your box of Alphabits!
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: fl$ Lawsuit - 04/09/19 03:13 PM

Ditto to you. Ruling will speak for itself...if there even is one!
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: fl$ Lawsuit - 05/21/19 05:56 PM

June 18t FLG fundraiser at their office in Huntington. Boxing Match: Corey Wink vs Mike Wink to help fund their legal debt.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: fl$ Lawsuit - 05/21/19 08:43 PM

Believe me, these guys will always land on their feet.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: fl$ Lawsuit - 05/21/19 11:08 PM

Going to be tough with today’s Judgment. Will be a few weeks before we find out if the Winkoff’s will still be running FLG. Do they Jahelka’s take over or does Winky bankrupt it.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: fl$ Lawsuit - 05/22/19 11:20 AM

Originally Posted by Anonymous
Going to be tough with today’s Judgment. Will be a few weeks before we find out if the Winkoff’s will still be running FLG. Do they Jahelka’s take over or does Winky bankrupt it.


What judgement would that be? The online docket from the court has nothing.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: fl$ Lawsuit - 05/24/19 07:25 PM

Originally Posted by Anonymous
Going to be tough with today’s Judgment. Will be a few weeks before we find out if the Winkoff’s will still be running FLG. Do they Jahelka’s take over or does Winky bankrupt it.


Well, I guess the person posting the above is pretty close of Jahelka. I see the docket has been updated to reflect that it granted Jahelka's motion for summary judgement.

That's going to leave a mark
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: fl$ Lawsuit - 05/25/19 07:41 AM

Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Going to be tough with today’s Judgment. Will be a few weeks before we find out if the Winkoff’s will still be running FLG. Do they Jahelka’s take over or does Winky bankrupt it.


Well, I guess the person posting the above is pretty close of Jahelka. I see the docket has been updated to reflect that it granted Jahelka's motion for summary judgement.

That's going to leave a mark


What does that mean???
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: fl$ Lawsuit - 05/26/19 09:16 PM

Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Going to be tough with today’s Judgment. Will be a few weeks before we find out if the Winkoff’s will still be running FLG. Do they Jahelka’s take over or does Winky bankrupt it.


Well, I guess the person posting the above is pretty close of Jahelka. I see the docket has been updated to reflect that it granted Jahelka's motion for summary judgement.

That's going to leave a mark


What does that mean???


It means a judge ruled that Winkoff owes Jahelka a lot of money
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: fl$ Lawsuit - 05/27/19 02:21 AM

Does anyone have a link to the judgement ruling?
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: fl$ Lawsuit - 05/28/19 03:55 PM

Okay Lets talk this new FLG GOAT thing. First off, I cant get used to the GOAT being the best player, in my day if you were the goat you lost the game for the team. Goat used to be reserved for the worst player not the best.

Looking at the FLG Sr. GOAT listings, at first I was like okay its just for Public school kids. Then I noticed a few Chaminade and St. Anthony's Kids sprinkled in.

Overall not bad, I guess you cant be right all of the time. Many you can say this kid or that kid and you are splitting hairs but these arent close.I think you snubbed 2 St Anthony's players Attack and Close, Chaminade and/or Garden City Fogo.

For Suffolk, you did have a lot of good LSMs, I think you missed the 2nd best for this season. Question, why select the same amount as close-D? All good players selected, but I again think you missed one of the top 3 for this season. Then I notice not having a St Anthony's Close D, laughable.

Then the biggest miss. No Bonomi on Attack, how does that happen. I have to scratch my head on that one. Very easy to play "which ones doesn't belong here". This right here invalidates what you tried to accomplish. Actually are any of those selected really attack-man or will they all be middies at the next level.

Why only 1 FOGO for suffolk, if you have 2 goalies pick two fogos. You have 2 in Nassau, sure you have 3 of the 4 best in the country in nassua, but why not pick 2 in Suffolk. maybe because noone is close to the #1 Suffolk guy, still you have a few to pick from.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: fl$ Lawsuit - 05/28/19 04:29 PM

Originally Posted by Anonymous
Okay Lets talk this new FLG GOAT thing. First off, I cant get used to the GOAT being the best player, in my day if you were the goat you lost the game for the team. Goat used to be reserved for the worst player not the best.

Looking at the FLG Sr. GOAT listings, at first I was like okay its just for Public school kids. Then I noticed a few Chaminade and St. Anthony's Kids sprinkled in.

Overall not bad, I guess you cant be right all of the time. Many you can say this kid or that kid and you are splitting hairs but these arent close.I think you snubbed 2 St Anthony's players Attack and Close, Chaminade and/or Garden City Fogo.

For Suffolk, you did have a lot of good LSMs, I think you missed the 2nd best for this season. Question, why select the same amount as close-D? All good players selected, but I again think you missed one of the top 3 for this season. Then I notice not having a St Anthony's Close D, laughable.

Then the biggest miss. No Bonomi on Attack, how does that happen. I have to scratch my head on that one. Very easy to play "which ones doesn't belong here". This right here invalidates what you tried to accomplish. Actually are any of those selected really attack-man or will they all be middies at the next level.

Why only 1 FOGO for suffolk, if you have 2 goalies pick two fogos. You have 2 in Nassau, sure you have 3 of the 4 best in the country in nassua, but why not pick 2 in Suffolk. maybe because noone is close to the #1 Suffolk guy, still you have a few to pick from.



Correction on GC fogo he is there under Attack
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: fl$ Lawsuit - 05/28/19 05:13 PM

Originally Posted by Anonymous
Does anyone have a link to the judgement ruling?


https://iapps.courts.state.ny.us/webcivil/FCASCaseInfo?parm=CaseInfo&index=Wh8cOjoRkc0D3JNGI9cjOg%3D%3D&county=elIXU9zGgt1Xyg6rDowHKA%3D%3D&motion=M&docs=&adate=06/19/2019&civilCaseId=b5EIW7NPrJUleUlRiFTA9A%3D%3D

If that doesn't work (the link expires) then go to

and enter index: 0606192/2018

The docket is the one in Nassau Supreme Court
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: fl$ Lawsuit - 05/28/19 05:53 PM

If FLG does not appeal the ruling, then all they owe Jahelka is $100k/ year. For a business that has several boys and girls teams—plus other sources of revenue ( tournaments/media/etc), that’s probably a low single digit percent of revenue. Certainly not a fatal expense and easily managed.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: fl$ Lawsuit - 05/28/19 07:24 PM

Originally Posted by Anonymous
If FLG does not appeal the ruling, then all they owe Jahelka is $100k/ year. For a business that has several boys and girls teams—plus other sources of revenue ( tournaments/media/etc), that’s probably a low single digit percent of revenue. Certainly not a fatal expense and easily managed.


The consulting agreement which the judge basically upheld, has an clause that says if Winkoff misses a payment, the entire sum is due immediately ("Events of Termination: Default - page 4 of contract) plus interest (12.2 page 5).
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: fl$ Lawsuit - 05/29/19 01:11 PM

If Jahelka wants his $$ then he will negotiate a payment plan. They originally went to mediation according to the complaint. They had a commercial disagreement over the contract and the trial court judge ruled in favor of Jahelka. Winkoff can still appeal and Jahelka can burn legal fees fighting. I’d wager this gets settled and Jahelka gets his $$ on some payment plan. Heck, wouldn’t surprise me if he gets back involved in the business some way.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: fl$ Lawsuit - 05/29/19 03:32 PM

Originally Posted by Anonymous
If Jahelka wants his $$ then he will negotiate a payment plan. They originally went to mediation according to the complaint. They had a commercial disagreement over the contract and the trial court judge ruled in favor of Jahelka. Winkoff can still appeal and Jahelka can burn legal fees fighting. I’d wager this gets settled and Jahelka gets his $$ on some payment plan. Heck, wouldn’t surprise me if he gets back involved in the business some way.


I would not give them a red cent of my hard earned money in order for my son to play lacrosse. These two pit bulls could battle this non-sense out themselves. It just goes to show your, it's all about making money, our kids come a distance second or maybe even third on their food chain. Winkoff would be foolish to appeal, likewise the appellate court could end up granting Jahelka legal fees in a appeal. In the end, it all boils down to $$$
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: fl$ Lawsuit - 05/29/19 04:05 PM

Originally Posted by Anonymous
If Jahelka wants his $$ then he will negotiate a payment plan. They originally went to mediation according to the complaint. They had a commercial disagreement over the contract and the trial court judge ruled in favor of Jahelka. Winkoff can still appeal and Jahelka can burn legal fees fighting. I’d wager this gets settled and Jahelka gets his $$ on some payment plan. Heck, wouldn’t surprise me if he gets back involved in the business some way.


And I would wager that the last thing Jahelka wants is for Winkoff to go on a payment plan again...after all, he stiffed him the first time. Further, as part of his motion for summary judgement, Jahelka requested a "neutral to inspect the books and records of FLG." This after making statement that a review of FLG's tax returns showed "evident that Winkoff has taken both company loans and also personal loans from FLG.......Quite clearly, Winkoff is over leveraged and has essentially decided to still Jahelka for his own gain."

Under the terms of the contract, Winkoff owes it all right now, plus interest (15% per annum) for the amounts in arrears. Further, Jahelka still may show additional damages which are also allowed for based on the contract. You can bet his legal fees will be part of that.

But I look forward to the opening of the kimono...er I mean books....
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: fl$ Lawsuit - 05/29/19 05:49 PM

Jahelka is going to have to go back to work to collect anything. Coaching or consulting or pickup up trash after games, something to fulfill his end of the consulting agreement to collect what he is contractually due. Part of that contract involves him working of which their is no evidence, email or otherwise that he has.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: fl$ Lawsuit - 05/29/19 06:11 PM

Originally Posted by Anonymous
Jahelka is going to have to go back to work to collect anything. Coaching or consulting or pickup up trash after games, something to fulfill his end of the consulting agreement to collect what he is contractually due. Part of that contract involves him working of which their is no evidence, email or otherwise that he has.


You should actually read the agreement before making these kinds of comments. You sound like Winkoff right now and we all know how far that argument got him.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: fl$ Lawsuit - 05/29/19 07:06 PM

Of course Jahelka wants to be paid now. But given that he is an unsecured creditor—he has no ability to enforce that if FLG files Chapter 11. The argument about FLG or Winkoff being over leveraged is irrelevant. He controls 100% and can put as much leverage on the company or increase salaries or dividend $$ in any amount as he wants. There are no restrictive covenants in the consulting agreement to prevent that. So Jahelka can negotiate a settlement—or—in an extreme case-/FLG’s owners can file Chapter 11 and Jahelka has to wait for another court to divide up the assets. But keep in mind—businesses can operate while the corporation is in Chapter 11. Happens all the time. So the tournaments and club teams can go on as if nothing happened at the corporate level. Parents shouldn’t be concerned because nothing changes operationally. Jahelka may not like it—but that’s how the our bankruptcy laws work. He could have negotiated additional protections in the agreement but he didn’t.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: fl$ Lawsuit - 05/29/19 07:29 PM

Originally Posted by Anonymous
Of course Jahelka wants to be paid now. But given that he is an unsecured creditor—he has no ability to enforce that if FLG files Chapter 11. The argument about FLG or Winkoff being over leveraged is irrelevant. He controls 100% and can put as much leverage on the company or increase salaries or dividend $$ in any amount as he wants. There are no restrictive covenants in the consulting agreement to prevent that. So Jahelka can negotiate a settlement—or—in an extreme case-/FLG’s owners can file Chapter 11 and Jahelka has to wait for another court to divide up the assets. But keep in mind—businesses can operate while the corporation is in Chapter 11. Happens all the time. So the tournaments and club teams can go on as if nothing happened at the corporate level. Parents shouldn’t be concerned because nothing changes operationally. Jahelka may not like it—but that’s how the our bankruptcy laws work. He could have negotiated additional protections in the agreement but he didn’t.


How many people want to work with an organizer/club owner who is willing to screw over his former business partner? Reading the court documents, it sure seems like Winkoff decided he didn't like the price he paid nor the terms he agreed to and doesn't have a problem walking away from a financial commitment. It's an indicator of his character.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: fl$ Lawsuit - 05/30/19 03:38 PM

I don’t agree this is a character issue. It’s just a commercial dispute and nothing more. You can’t read more into it. Do you think this is the only club that has business dealings you disagree with? Read through other threads, there are lots of clubs with directors that treat their players and families poorly. That’s much much worse. I’d rather go to a club that treats their customers well even if they make business decisions I don’t like. And from what I read, people at FLG are not complaining.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: fl$ Lawsuit - 06/03/19 09:37 AM

The FLG Showcase (girls) was a money maker. I would not recommend this unless you play for FLG.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: fl$ Lawsuit - 06/10/19 12:26 PM

How many girls were even there? Over the past 2 years, they went from having 300 down to 140 and this year I would like think near 100 but can anyone confirm that? They are dying a slow death and the reason why they are trying other revenue streams. Their brand name is tarnished.

Originally Posted by Anonymous
The FLG Showcase (girls) was a money maker. I would not recommend this unless you play for FLG.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: fl$ Lawsuit - 06/10/19 04:10 PM

Was at the FLG tournament this past weekend. Plenty of teams there and well run. Mitchell field is such a better venue than Farmingdale State College. Dreading LI Laxfest this weekend.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: fl$ Lawsuit - 06/25/19 01:05 PM

How's FLG doing with all their showcases and summer events? Hopefully bringing in a lot of cash because it looks like they need to write a $1.22 million dollar check to Jahelka.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: fl$ Lawsuit - 06/26/19 09:38 AM

There were about 120 girls at the FLG Showcase.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: fl$ Lawsuit - 06/27/19 03:06 AM

All is well in FLG land as wait until you see all those kids at camp tomorrow lining up to pay big bucks to play lacrosse duck duck goose. Sorry, I meant Fusion Duck Duck Goose.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: fl$ Lawsuit - 06/27/19 11:13 AM

Originally Posted by Anonymous
All is well in FLG land as wait until you see all those kids at camp tomorrow lining up to pay big bucks to play lacrosse duck duck goose. Sorry, I meant Fusion Duck Duck Goose.


Great news! Sounds like business is good and they should be able to pay that settlement with no problem and move on from this ugly mess!
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: fl$ Lawsuit - 07/02/19 09:19 PM

How is the 2023 team, thinking about trying out.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: fl$ Lawsuit - 07/03/19 01:39 PM

Originally Posted by Anonymous
How is the 2023 team, thinking about trying out.


What position does your son play?
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: fl$ Lawsuit - 07/03/19 03:14 PM

Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
How is the 2023 team, thinking about trying out.


What position does your son play?



Why do you need to know? Oh I know why, because if its your sons position, then the team stinks, if its not then he may be an upgrade and help the team and then you will want him.
The original poster asked a simple question, How is the team.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: fl$ Lawsuit - 07/03/19 03:19 PM

Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
How is the 2023 team, thinking about trying out.


What position does your son play?


At the hospital the surgeon looks at the boy and says "I can't operate on this boy, he is my son."
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: fl$ Lawsuit - 07/09/19 11:51 AM

FLG been dying a slow death for years...bait and switch when it comes to tournaments is old news...streamlining brackets for their teams to get deep...forced off season workouts($$)...promoting kids that pay more over better talent...they have a racket going and anyone who gives them a second look gets what the dearly paid for...nothing
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: fl$ Lawsuit - 07/09/19 05:11 PM

Originally Posted by Anonymous
FLG been dying a slow death for years...bait and switch when it comes to tournaments is old news...streamlining brackets for their teams to get deep...forced off season workouts($$)...promoting kids that pay more over better talent...they have a racket going and anyone who gives them a second look gets what the dearly paid for...nothing


Sounds just like the 2 club experiences my son has had. They are all the same.....
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: fl$ Lawsuit - 07/09/19 06:51 PM

Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
How is the 2023 team, thinking about trying out.


What position does your son play?



Why do you need to know? Oh I know why, because if its your sons position, then the team stinks, if its not then he may be an upgrade and help the team and then you will want him.
The original poster asked a simple question, How is the team.


Stinks. How is that answer for you?
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: fl$ Lawsuit - 07/10/19 01:35 PM

Originally Posted by Anonymous
FLG been dying a slow death for years...bait and switch when it comes to tournaments is old news...streamlining brackets for their teams to get deep...forced off season workouts($$)...promoting kids that pay more over better talent...they have a racket going and anyone who gives them a second look gets what the dearly paid for...nothing


We have been with FLG for years, this is not true at all!
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: fl$ Lawsuit - 07/10/19 05:09 PM

Look in the mirror, or at your personal gene pool. You can't market a kid that isn't marketable. Flg has been great for my son and our family through the years and there are plenty of commits from the 20 team.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: fl$ Lawsuit - 07/17/19 02:57 PM

Seems to be business as usually in FLG land! Not sure what the crazies are talking about - Lawsuit???
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: fl$ Lawsuit - 07/17/19 03:41 PM

Originally Posted by Anonymous
How is the 2023 team, thinking about trying out.

Won a game in a B bracket of a low end tournament. This is not a top team talent and when entering HS if your son is playing at this level for fun that is fine. If you are paying more or have to put up with more then think twice. Plenty of easier teams to play for. This is not going to be a team that gets lots of recruiting attention. Maybe other years but not the 2023 team
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: fl$ Lawsuit - 07/17/19 04:19 PM

Originally Posted by Anonymous
Seems to be business as usually in FLG land! Not sure what the crazies are talking about - Lawsuit???


Proposed settlement agreement files with court
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: fl$ Lawsuit - 07/18/19 12:44 PM

Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Seems to be business as usually in FLG land! Not sure what the crazies are talking about - Lawsuit???


Proposed settlement agreement files with court



Trail date set for 10/3/19. I sure they will settle before then.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: fl$ Lawsuit - 07/18/19 03:10 PM

Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Seems to be business as usually in FLG land! Not sure what the crazies are talking about - Lawsuit???


Proposed settlement agreement files with court



Trail date set for 10/3/19. I sure they will settle before then.


You need to read the electronic documents. There is a settlement agreement there. Winky needs to pay up over 1.2 million smackaroos.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: fl$ Lawsuit - 07/18/19 10:34 PM

Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Seems to be business as usually in FLG land! Not sure what the crazies are talking about - Lawsuit???


Proposed settlement agreement files with court



Trail date set for 10/3/19. I sure they will settle before then.


There is already a judgement for the breach of contract in the amount of $1,224,488.68. The trial date would be for remaining claims and counter claims associated with the case. But the meat of the issue has been decided.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: fl$ Lawsuit - 08/07/19 09:51 PM

Rumor has it Winkoff is ill. I hope he'll be ok as it sounds serious.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: fl$ Lawsuit - 08/08/19 03:42 AM

Winkoff's faltering health has excellent timing, coinciding with discovery. :roflmao: Best wishes for a quick recovery and a naive judge!
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: fl$ Lawsuit - 08/08/19 02:14 PM

i'd prob feel a little bad for the owners of the program and family... if I had never had a conversation with them. Not the nicest to deal with.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: fl$ Lawsuit - 08/08/19 03:44 PM

Originally Posted by Anonymous
i'd prob feel a little bad for the owners of the program and family... if I had never had a conversation with them. Not the nicest to deal with.


I am inclined to feel bad for them as well and I wouldn't wish a tumor/cancer on anyone, regardless of how I feel about them. It's devastating.

But you also have to wonder how such a life changing diagnosis and impending surgery only requires delaying discovery by 30 days. You can do a lot in 30 days, like clean your books, transfer money to the Cayman Islands, etc. but beating cancer isn't one of them.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: fl$ Lawsuit - 08/08/19 04:40 PM

so how long until FLG goes belly up?
Posted By: laxislife

Re: fl$ Lawsuit - 10/05/19 05:47 PM

Originally Posted by Anonymous
so how long until FLG goes belly up?


I would think within the next 10 months or by next years tryouts. Their teams have taken a tremendous hit and their showcases are barely staying afloat...all of that on top of the lawsuit will be too much.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: fl$ Lawsuit - 10/05/19 08:15 PM

You don't treat people (i.e. customers) the right way and it eventually catches up with you. There was a time when FLG was the hottest thing going. Making their team was a true accomplishment. Then they got crazy greedy, entered into ill-advised feuds, let Manhasset fathers essentially dictate certain teams, over-extended themselves with too many teams and diluted their product. Add to that an unnecessary and expensive storefront lease and second rate showcases and you can see how it all unravels. Not crying any tears for them.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: fl$ Lawsuit - 10/07/19 08:09 PM

Once your own kids exit the program as players its tough to stay engaged and know the talent across the island and to recruit. In time, Igloo and others will follow the same (potential) fate.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: fl$ Lawsuit - 10/07/19 08:42 PM

Originally Posted by Anonymous
Once your own kids exit the program as players it's tough to stay engaged and know the talent across the island and to recruit. In time, Igloo and others will follow the same (potential) fate.


Igloo owner's son is committed to play D1 lacrosse in college. Rebels guy went to Dowling, etc.,
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: fl$ Lawsuit - 10/15/19 12:46 AM

Igloo is a very solid program. They are very well-organized, have good coaching, run good practices all year, provide quality uniforms and equipment, etc. They play in fairly good tournaments, although not always the best of the best. If they could join NLF that would really help their kids get recruited. That Elite 80 event they run is expensive but provides insane exposure. None of these clubs are perfect, but I think Igloo is better than most other options with the exception of Express or 91 A teams. Their 2020 team has commits to Harvard, ND, Denver, Bucknell, Sacred Heart and others....
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: fl$ Lawsuit - 10/15/19 02:48 PM

Originally Posted by Anonymous
Igloo is a very solid program. They are very well-organized, have good coaching, run good practices all year, provide quality uniforms and equipment, etc. They play in fairly good tournaments, although not always the best of the best. If they could join NLF that would really help their kids get recruited. That Elite 80 event they run is expensive but provides insane exposure. None of these clubs are perfect, but I think Igloo is better than most other options with the exception of Express or 91 A teams. Their 2020 team has commits to Harvard, ND, Denver, Bucknell, Sacred Heart and others....


If Igloo had great recruiting, then shouldn't have the son gone top 20 D1 not bottom?
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: fl$ Lawsuit - 10/15/19 03:04 PM

Originally Posted by Anonymous
Igloo is a very solid program. They are very well-organized, have good coaching, run good practices all year, provide quality uniforms and equipment, etc. They play in fairly good tournaments, although not always the best of the best. If they could join NLF that would really help their kids get recruited. That Elite 80 event they run is expensive but provides insane exposure. None of these clubs are perfect, but I think Igloo is better than most other options with the exception of Express or 91 A teams. Their 2020 team has commits to Harvard, ND, Denver, Bucknell, Sacred Heart and others....


Omg! What a load of garbage. Igloo is falling apart. It's so much about greed. They charge an outrageous amount and promise the least number of tourneys to kids than any other organisation. They even cheap out on the tourneys they do go to. They dont care about the kids at all. That a bunch of hogwash. The owner is just lining his pocket. Everyone knows the downward spiral of Igloo.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: fl$ Lawsuit - 10/15/19 04:01 PM

Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Igloo is a very solid program. They are very well-organized, have good coaching, run good practices all year, provide quality uniforms and equipment, etc. They play in fairly good tournaments, although not always the best of the best. If they could join NLF that would really help their kids get recruited. That Elite 80 event they run is expensive but provides insane exposure. None of these clubs are perfect, but I think Igloo is better than most other options with the exception of Express or 91 A teams. Their 2020 team has commits to Harvard, ND, Denver, Bucknell, Sacred Heart and others....


Omg! What a load of garbage. Igloo is falling apart. It's so much about greed. They charge an outrageous amount and promise the least number of tourneys to kids than any other organisation. They even cheap out on the tourneys they do go to. They dont care about the kids at all. That a bunch of hogwash. The owner is just lining his pocket. Everyone knows the downward spiral of Igloo.


---------------

on 2028 teams, Igloo player from last year all left and went to other teams. There was a solid A team that vacated the premises... They took anyone who could breathe for their B, and their A is a shell of what it was.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: fl$ Lawsuit - 10/15/19 04:23 PM

Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Igloo is a very solid program. They are very well-organized, have good coaching, run good practices all year, provide quality uniforms and equipment, etc. They play in fairly good tournaments, although not always the best of the best. If they could join NLF that would really help their kids get recruited. That Elite 80 event they run is expensive but provides insane exposure. None of these clubs are perfect, but I think Igloo is better than most other options with the exception of Express or 91 A teams. Their 2020 team has commits to Harvard, ND, Denver, Bucknell, Sacred Heart and others....


Omg! What a load of garbage. Igloo is falling apart. It's so much about greed. They charge an outrageous amount and promise the least number of tourneys to kids than any other organisation. They even cheap out on the tourneys they do go to. They dont care about the kids at all. That a bunch of hogwash. The owner is just lining his pocket. Everyone knows the downward spiral of Igloo.


---------------

on 2028 teams, Igloo player from last year all left and went to other teams. There was a solid A team that vacated the premises... They took anyone who could breathe for their B, and their A is a shell of what it was.





And its many more age groups than just 2028 falling apart.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: fl$ Lawsuit - 10/15/19 04:28 PM

Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Igloo is a very solid program. They are very well-organized, have good coaching, run good practices all year, provide quality uniforms and equipment, etc. They play in fairly good tournaments, although not always the best of the best. If they could join NLF that would really help their kids get recruited. That Elite 80 event they run is expensive but provides insane exposure. None of these clubs are perfect, but I think Igloo is better than most other options with the exception of Express or 91 A teams. Their 2020 team has commits to Harvard, ND, Denver, Bucknell, Sacred Heart and others....


Omg! What a load of garbage. Igloo is falling apart. It's so much about greed. They charge an outrageous amount and promise the least number of tourneys to kids than any other organisation. They even cheap out on the tourneys they do go to. They dont care about the kids at all. That a bunch of hogwash. The owner is just lining his pocket. Everyone knows the downward spiral of Igloo.


---------------

on 2028 teams, Igloo player from last year all left and went to other teams. There was a solid A team that vacated the premises... They took anyone who could breathe for their B, and their A is a shell of what it was.





And its many more age groups than just 2028 falling apart.


Heard the same about the 2022 age group.

Too bad, from the outside looking in, I thought they did it the best.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: fl$ Lawsuit - 10/15/19 06:22 PM

Somehow this became the Igloo thread.

I guess now that FLG and Jahelka settled there's nothing else to talk about?
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: fl$ Lawsuit - 10/15/19 07:19 PM

Originally Posted by Anonymous
Somehow this became the Igloo thread.

I guess now that FLG and Jahelka settled there's nothing else to talk about?


FLG is a better club than Igloo anyway. Hopefully we won't read your annoying threads about a lawsuit anymore. lost.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: fl$ Lawsuit - 10/15/19 09:26 PM

Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Somehow this became the Igloo thread.

I guess now that FLG and Jahelka settled there's nothing else to talk about?


FLG is a better club than Igloo anyway. Hopefully we won't read your annoying threads about a lawsuit anymore. lost.


That would be FLG that lost.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: fl$ Lawsuit - 10/15/19 10:50 PM

you realize you're talking about 4th graders right? let me guess, your kid is one of the "stars" who moved away from igloo a.

flg use to be legit and not all that long ago. it's a shame that they have fallen so far.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: fl$ Lawsuit - 10/16/19 02:02 AM

I think the issue is that the younger Igloo teams may be struggling a bit even if 2020 and 2021 were pretty good.

FLG is a shadow of its former self. They play in second tier tournaments and are a B team organization now. That is too bad, because they were big before 91 and were the hottest ticket in town for a while.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: fl$ Lawsuit - 10/16/19 01:19 PM

Originally Posted by Anonymous
Somehow this became the Igloo thread.

I guess now that FLG and Jahelka settled there's nothing else to talk about?


So they did end up settling ?
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: fl$ Lawsuit - 10/16/19 01:43 PM

Originally Posted by Anonymous
I think the issue is that the younger Igloo teams may be struggling a bit even if 2020 and 2021 were pretty good.

FLG is a shadow of its former self. They play in second tier tournaments and are a B team organization now. That is too bad, because they were big before 91 and were the hottest ticket in town for a while.



Igloo has strayed far from the motto on there website. They are the exact opposite. It's all about the money even though they pretend otherwise.

Unfortunately you are correct about flg. And honestly they dont try to hide that.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: fl$ Lawsuit - 10/16/19 01:53 PM

Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Somehow this became the Igloo thread.

I guess now that FLG and Jahelka settled there's nothing else to talk about?


So they did end up settling ?


Yes, no need to discuss it any longer. FLG will be the next big LI lax club.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: fl$ Lawsuit - 10/16/19 03:57 PM

Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
I think the issue is that the younger Igloo teams may be struggling a bit even if 2020 and 2021 were pretty good.

FLG is a shadow of its former self. They play in second tier tournaments and are a B team organization now. That is too bad, because they were big before 91 and were the hottest ticket in town for a while.



Igloo has strayed far from the motto on there website. They are the exact opposite. It's all about the money even though they pretend otherwise.

Unfortunately you are correct about flg. And honestly they dont try to hide that.


Igloo is well run as far as organization, but the $ has gotten out of control. At least they stopped putting the financial break down on the team packages. They used to put $75 for balls, and cones. If you have 20 paying players on a roster that's $1500 per team for balls and cones. Glad they realized they shouldn't advertise that anymore.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: fl$ Lawsuit - 10/16/19 04:35 PM

Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
I think the issue is that the younger Igloo teams may be struggling a bit even if 2020 and 2021 were pretty good.

FLG is a shadow of its former self. They play in second tier tournaments and are a B team organization now. That is too bad, because they were big before 91 and were the hottest ticket in town for a while.



Igloo has strayed far from the motto on there website. They are the exact opposite. It's all about the money even though they pretend otherwise.

Unfortunately you are correct about flg. And honestly they dont try to hide that.


Igloo is well run as far as organization, but the $ has gotten out of control. At least they stopped putting the financial break down on the team packages. They used to put $75 for balls, and cones. If you have 20 paying players on a roster that's $1500 per team for balls and cones. Glad they realized they shouldn't advertise that anymore.


It would be great if FLG disclosed how much their high rent useless store on Main St costs the paying customers.
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