Come December, there will be an important vote here in New York to require helmets for all girls matches. One of the key arguments in favor of this move is to better protect the defensive players. What is your view? Good move?

Bad move, it will just open it up for more stick swinging.

The full story is available at this web site.

November 9, 2010

Dear friend of women’s lacrosse in New York:

On behalf of the women’s game leadership and Sports Science and Safety committee of US Lacrosse, we are writing to inform you of a very serious threat to the safety of women’s lacrosse players in New York.

In late October, the state’s public high school athletic association’s (NYSPHSAA) safety committee made a motion stating that starting in the 2012 girls lacrosse season, all players will be required to wear a hard shell men’s lacrosse helmet with face mask that meets all NOCSAE standards for the sport of men’s lacrosse. The safety committee is made up of members from all 11 sections in the state, and when they vote on December 2nd, the members should be representing the vote of their section (high school coaches and athletic director’s). If the Safety Committee votes in favor of the motion then it would go to the Executive Committee on December 5th and 6th for either a final vote or dismissal.

If you are opposed to this measure, it is critical that you send a personal email and/or call your area section chair, Athletic Directors and Safety Committee members directly today, and ask them to VOTE NO on the December 2nd question to mandate men’s lacrosse helmets for women’s lacrosse and support the official rules for girls and women’s lacrosse that have been approved by US Lacrosse and endorsed by the National Federation for High School Association.

Please find your NYSPHSAA section chair contact below and use the letter drafted at the link below, and modify depending on the position you serve in the sport, to communicate your opposition to the mandate and cc: Ann Carpenetti, Women’s Director, US Lacrosse acarpenetti@uslacrosse.org and Jacquie Gow, NYS women’s lacrosse chair jgow@glencove.k12.ny.us on all correspondence.

Download the letter draft as a Word document or a PDF.

NYSPHSAA Section Chair Contacts:
Name
Section
Phone
Email

Jennifer Simmons
1
(914) 592-2526
jsimmonsbutt.org

Doug Kenyon
2
(518) 742-2033
dkenyonbutt.org

Fred Gula
2
(518) 355-8783
fgula@mycap.rr.com

John Rathbun
3
(215) 451-4588
jrathbunbutt.com

Ben Nelson
4
(607) 561-2347
bnsectionIVbutt.rr.com

Ed Stores
5
(585) 786-2132
estoresbutt.org

Timm Slade
6
(716) 821-7352
cszczesny@e1b.org

Karen Lopez
7
(518) 834-5276
klopez5276@charter.net

Todd Heimer
8
(516) 396-2488
theimer@mail.nasboces.org

Robert Thabet
9
(845) 294-5799
rthabetbutt.org

Jim Osborne
9
(845) 294-5799
josborne@ouboces.org

Carl Normandin
10
(315) 386-2226 X15103
cnormandinbutt.org

Edward Cinelli
11
(631) 366-4900
ecinellibutt.org


Yours in lacrosse,
The US Lacrosse Women's Division

Ann Kitt-Carpenetti
Women's Division Director

Liz Piper
Women's Divison Associate

This will be defeated.

Umpires need to call more fouls at a younger age level. I've seen many PAL town teams that are made up of premier players who know how to fool the ump and take advantage of less experienced opponents. Granted-they are taught this by their parents/coaches but umsportsmanlike conduct at 11/12yo affects everyone. In my 7 years of coaching I have repeatedly seen the Yellow Jackets at every age level play physical, dirty, and intentional checking games. Not only does it take away from the integrity of the game it doesn't teach a young girl to play correctly. Just my 2 cents...

See this story from Lacrosse Magazine : New York Considers Men's Helmets for Women's Lacrosse

An upcoming vote by the New York State Public High School Athletic Association (NYSPHSAA) to require men's lacrosse helmets to be worn in women's lacrosse as soon as 2012 has advocates of the sport concerned.

"I think the idea of making girls wear helmets that were specifically designed for a different game is irresponsible," said Ann Carpenetti, managing director for game administration for US Lacrosse.

The vote by the NYSPHSAA's Safety & Research Committee is scheduled for Dec. 2 and, if it passes there, would be sent to the NYSPHSAA Executive Committee for a vote on Dec. 5 or 6. Leaders from US Lacrosse, including Carpenetti and Steve Stenersen (president and chief executive officer) spoke against the proposal at a Section 8 (Nassau County) meeting on Tuesday.

The proposal came about due to the desire to reduce the number of concussions in girls' lacrosse. The topic was discussed in New York last year as well, but it was not brought up for a vote, as it has been this year.

US Lacrosse has been at the leading edge of addressing the concern over concussions, but does not support this particular approach.

"There's no data in any sport that tells us that helmets prevent concussions," said Margot Putukian, M.D., the director of athletic medicine services at Princeton University and the chair of the US Lacrosse Sports Science & Safety Committee. "They weren't designed to do that. They were designed to prevent skull fractures and intracranial bleeds."

Whether girls’ lacrosse players should wear helmets continues to be a hot issue. The New York State Public High School Athletic Association (NYSPHAA) Safety Committee discussed the issue during an October 13th conference call.

This was the decision that came about: “Starting with the 2012 Girls’ Lacrosse season all players will be mandated to wear a hard shell helmet with a facemask that meets all of the NOCSAE (National Operating Committee on Standards for Athletic Equipment) requirements for the sport of lacrosse.”

All the seection representatives will vote on whether to allow helmets on December 2nd.

Personally, many of the lacrosse players and coaches I’ve talked to say that they do not want to wear helmets. Maybe it could be a good thing for safety longer term since it seems to get more physical with each passing season.

This just in...from Inside Lacrosse vote was held today and voted NO with a 7 - 2 outcome against girls wearing helmets!

New York State Says 'No' to Helmets for Girls' LacrosseThe New York State Public High School Athletic Association safety committee had proposed a rule that would require girls' lacrosse players to wear helmets beginning in 2012. On Tuesday, the motion was defeated, 7-2.

"Each section had a safety representative that voted according to what their section decided. Section 7 did not vote because it does not have girls' lacrosse.

"If the safety committee had voted in favor of helmets, then there would have been a state vote by the section representatives, according to girls' lacrosse state chairperson Jacquie Gow."

Read the full story at RecordOnline.com.

No helmets headed to girls' lacrosse

Girls will stick to goggles in lacrosse.
(Times Herald-Record/Mira Wassef)

Published: 2:00 AM - 12/03/10
Last updated: 9:34 PM - 12/03/10

The prospect of girls' lacrosse players wearing helmets has been a hot issue for several years.

But the talk turned to action in October when the New York State Public High School Athletic Association safety committee made a motion that would require the use of helmets beginning in the 2012 season.

But that's as far as it got.

The state safety committee voted down the motion, 7-2, on Tuesday. Each section had a safety representative that voted according to what their section decided. Section 7 did not vote because it does not have girls' lacrosse.

If the safety committee had voted in favor of helmets, then there would have been a state vote by the section representatives, according to girls' lacrosse state chairperson Jacquie Gow.

"This was the first time it got to a state vote," Gow said. "I personally don't see a good reason for helmets. The girls' game is different from the boys' game."

Kingston girls' lacrosse coach Debbie Eaton said it's good not to put helmets on girls for now, though she believes more research needs to be done.

"I think this is just the beginning and it will be revisited," Eaton said. "Maybe in the near future they could have some type of lightweight protective head gear. I don't think they should wear the boys' helmets. It's too heavy and girls don't wear shoulder pads and chest protectors like they do in the boys' game. But some kind of protective head gear would be a good thing."

The safety committee reviewed injury data that was collected by the National Federation of High Schools Injury Surveillance Survey for girls' lacrosse and the information collected by the state association from certified athletic trainers before making the motion.

The committee's concern focused on head injuries, including concussions, and with facial lacerations from checking. Girls are required to wear protective eye wear.

To combat the possible injuries, the state has introduced new rules for the upcoming season. If a team gets three yellow cards in game, it will play one man short the next game. If a player gets a red card, she will miss two games.

"This is seen as a necessity to bring people back in line and cut down on the physicality," Cow said.

"The onus is on the coaches to make sure the girls know how to play properly," Eaton said. "We need to preserve the integrity of the women's game and make sure it executed the way it was meant to be."

Newsday has a research article which has reopened this discussion. See the article referenced below.

Newsday Article : Lacrosse Helmet Debate Resumes for Girls

Further to the discussion, Newsday has dedicated the first FIVE PAGES of their Main Edition in Sunday's paper to this topic including several articles and some heart stopping statistics. It is hard to read the details in these pieces and not pause to think about the introduction of helmets of some type (either soft shell or hard shell) into the girls game. Now that the Varsity season is closing and the club/elite tournament season is gearing up, this is a serious topic that should be examined by all clubs, parents, players, and organizations.

After reading the Newsday pieces, we would like to hear your views. Again, congrats to Tom Rock and Stephen Haynes for bringing this debate to a wider audience on Long Island.

On the sidelines of my daughter's lacrosse game we all discussed this issue. It was unanimous: everyone thinks helmets are the way to go.

no way!!! why stop their let them put on shoulder pads and glove,let them play like the boys....

How do you respond to the concussions discussed in the Newsday article? Do we just accept the "couple" of concussions as a cost of playing without helmets? Explain why the girls should NOT wear helmets.

I've said that and I've meant it. <shrugging> Suit 'em up and let them play.

While my prayers go out to the girl who's been out of school since March, the fact is that her concussion would not have been prevented by a helmet and the article represents transparent demagoguery. The statistics in the article were garbage as well. 37% of injuries were concussions or facial injuries? A booboo on the nose? They mix these statistics to mask the fact that there are few concussions in the mix. Those that are would mostly not be prevented by helmets just like they aren't prevented in boys lacrosse.

Full checking should be outlawed. Modified checking should be the norm.

once you put a helmet on the game of girls lacrosse will be forever changed. there will be no difference between girls and boys lacrosse. besides if parents are that concerned aboput their daughter getting a concussion there are small non-obtrusive helmets ive seen girls wear that can 'prevent' tham if really needed

Why are we worried about girls' concussions and not boys? And the answer, "Because they're girls," does not count.

Maybe we should consider taking boys' helmets away and changing their game to be less physical.

I actually agree with this comment however that is another discussion.
I have watched the girls game evolve (or devolve based on your opinion) over the last decade. The size, speed and strength of the girls has increased dramatically. The girls game is FAR more physical and violent today than it was just a couple of years ago. There's no turning back. It's only going to continue to get more physical and violent. We have to look forward and protect the players and helmets are a must in my opinion.
Let's face it, I hate to admit it, but lacrosse is the new soccer with all the bad stuff that goes with soccer. Crazy sideline parents,crazy coaches, trainers everywhere you turn, money, money, money, pressure on the kids. Our cottage sport has grown up and it's a little sad to see.

If this was Facebook I'd "like" your post. :-)

Excellent posting.

The "cottage nature" of lacrosse was lost with $1500+ tournaments and $2000 summer training bills. Still more expensive by a factor of two than soccer, Long Island is a recognized pipeline of lacrosse talent (along with Baltimore). With that recognition came increasing fees, increasing attention, and over the last five years specifically, more intense competition.

Increased competitive focus (and scholarship dollars), particularly for the girls, has led to an influx of players who are raising the bar on overall fitness, athleticism, and physical prowess. The intensity around winning will further increase on Long Island should girls programs be able to successfully mount challenges to the Yellow Jackets program.

The genie is now out of the bottle and we recognized this on Back of THE NET (soccer) about five years ago. We launched Back of THE CAGE specifically to get in front of the information sharing that this market required.

While this all sounds negative, there is one area where lacrosse still "excels" over soccer here on Long Island. While more expensive, the more flexible scheduling, availability of individual showcasing opportunities, and a large number of good training organizations have made lacrosse a more attractive option than it was just five years back.

Girls will wear helmets only after you have some poor kid suffer a life-ending injury. At that point people will wonder why the girls weren't wearing a protective helmet. It's just common sense. They play with a hard ball and a metal stick. You are all just waiting until someone gets killed or hurt severely to wake-up and realize that this is JUST a game and protecting your child should be your number one priority.

This is already happening. Read the study published in November 2021- the data speaks for itself (https://www.nytimes.com/2021/10/08/sports/lacrosse-girls-high-school-helmets-concussions.html)

Girls play aggressively and they should have protection.

"Once you put a helmet on the game of girls lacrosse will be forever changed"? Have you seen a recent game of girls lacrosse? The game has changed as well as the competitive nature, strength and drive of these young women. Increased protection is a must. There really is no good argument against it- why would you NOT choose to minimize risk?

Completely agreed. Wished it were mandatory. Girls are under so much peer pressure to not wear them.

What will the floppers do if helmets are required? I vote no

Soccer has one of the highest rate of concussions in young athletes. Should they wear helmets as well? If you feel concerned for your kids safety, make her wear a helmet. I detest the helmets in girls lacrosse because In my opinion, the kids with the helmets are the most reckless.

Girls don’t need helmets. This is a non contact sport. They need officials that call all the rules as written. Cross checks, illegal checks, body checks, over the head checks and dangerous shots. Call the fouls and issue the yellow card and after getting 2 of those in a game when little Sally has to sit out maybe she’ll get the message. Same for her coaches, they can get cards and after 2 forced to leave the field so when they argue the calls issue them a card as well.

They really need youth coaching from people that understand the rule book not over zealous parents who think jamming the butt end in a girls rib cage is ok, cross checking everyone instead of moving your feet or shooting from where ever with whoever is in front of you is ok hitting girls with your shot or follow through. Pushing a girl to the ground is a foul that never gets called but a defensive slide with no contact generates a free position shot? Or empty stick checks?

Adding a helmet will only lead to adding gloves and arm pads & shoulder pads and then you’ve ruined the game and only added increased injuries.

How about the girls who pretend to get hit in the head and those who trip on purpose when they’re about to lose the ball?? They should get yellow cards too for delay of game.

Agreed. Call a tight game and issue cards, fouls will decrease. It’s almost like the fouls and stick swinging is encouraged in the hopes the refs can’t call them all…..

Totally agree. The head bobbing in an epidemic.

Helmets are awful in girls lax.

Safety is absolutely the number 1 concern! I have only been involved in girls lacrosse for the last 8 years from youth through division 1. IMHO the girls that wear helmets are clearly more reckless with their sticks. I don't think it's intentional, but just wearing a helmet removes a sense of vulnerability that pushes girls to obey the rules. The rules need to be enforced and quicker yellow and red cards are not being called Most of the issues come from just a few girls and they have to change their ways or be removed from the games to protect the other girls and the betterment of the game.

There is currently no proposal for women to be required to wear helmets in NY. IMHO the girls that do wear them are overly aggressive and put themselves and others at risk.

FACTS!

One plus to wearing helmets is the head floppers can’t get away with their nonsense

FACTS? I can understand how one can call the first sentence as FACT. For the second part, that is at best an opinion and not fact. I can't believe how many people now have a bias against girls that wear a helmet as if they are all reckless and aggressive. How many girls with helmets have you watched?

Alot. Obviously it can't be called fact but anyone watching girls can plainly see that the helmeted players are often fearless. Girls lacrosse is poorly officiated and almost always called against the defenders. It easy to see how helmeted players can and DO use that to their advantage at the hs level.

Watching my daughters play against girls in helmets, many do absolutely go in for ground balls and drive to cage with much more abandon. I really hope helmets don't become standard - I fear the women's game will be irreparably changed for the worse.

come on
They do not put their head down and charge the goal, that is not a good answer. If the player wants to wear the helmet than let her. If your daughter ends up with a bad concussion you would wish that she had one on. I think that the offensive players shoot the ball much harder and sometimes may be a little dangerous with the follow thru. Of course the over the head checks are always legal. Yes we can say that the refs need to control the game but thats not the right answer. I like the fast and aggressive game but why not protect the girls also? Maybe start with the youth and add to it every year??

My daughter wears a helmet. She loves it. She doesn't care what anyone thinks. She's the one getting hit in the head with a stick, or not, as the case may be. Maybe if more defensive players could play defense with their feet, she wouldn't feel that way.

I'm with you. My kid is still in elementary school, so may be the other posters were referring to older helmet-wearing kids tend to be more aggressive. I've seen plenty of times that other kids without helmet got whacked with sticks. Ref called it or not, my kid (or as the parent I) feels better with it.

The findings were recently published in an article in The Orthopaedic Journal of Sports Medicine. Wearable sensors synchronized with video verification were used to collect data. Collectively, these findings provide preliminary evidence that wearing lacrosse headgear meeting the ASTM F3137 performance standard does not appreciably change game-play behaviors, while it does reduce the magnitude of head accelerations associated with body impacts sustained during high school girls’ lacrosse

The researchers also expressed the need for further research with larger study populations to validate their findings.

https://www.usalaxmagazine.com/high-school/girls/new-research-provides-data-on-womens-headgear-use

I have not really seen a girl play in a helmet until this weekend. She was one of the shorter girls on the field but easily the most aggressive. It certainly appeared she had no fear of head shots as she constantly ducked under sticks and initiated contact. All calls went her way when she was on offense. I feel the officials are a big part of the problem. A girl on the other team got cross checked to the mouth and all they awarded was a common foul.

I would bets 90% of the posters that say helmeted girls aren't more aggressive, have daughters that play the game with a helmet.

Exactly

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This statement is so moronic and doesn't say anything other than reinforcing the "perception" (not fact). It's equivalent to the following - If parents on here said it's a fact that "all boys wear pink are Happy" and other parents said, "no, you cannot say that's a fact". Then you are going to say that "I bet 90% of the people that said the pink wearing boys are not Happy in fact have sons wearing pink". I'm picking an outrageous statement to prove a point.

With the regular season almost done, I've seen enough to form my own opinion. There are few, if any, girls charging calls. Refs will call a foul on a defender almost every time a girl goes into 3 sometimes 4 defenders. Not only is it impossible to play defense, players refuse to pass knowing they'll get free shots. There is also a severe shortage of competent women's officials but that's a topic for another day.

I believe we are talking about the same game. I've seen the helmeted player before and every call goes her way because of her height. What option does a defender have? Step aside and let her score?

I am in disbelief when girls foolishly run into double and triple teams, stop, start spinning blindly and get a call from the ref. They are often rewarded with an 8 meter shot or possession. Those types of plays make defenders crazy and may be why some girls unload with hard fouls knowing whatever they do will be a foul. Charges need to be called if the offensive players backs into defenders blindly period. A spin move with a little contact requires skill and timing, easy to tell the difference.

I'd put a helmet on my daughter until I see most refs making right calls most of the time and that girls have better control (as they age) and have learned to play the game right (when refs making the right calls). Meanwhile, she is going to be looked at by grown ups (and their kids as influenced by parents) with a bias that she likely will be a more aggressive player.

Absolutely agree! See it in every single game whether the girls wear helmet or not. I'm talking about elementary and middle school games.

My daughter wears a helmet. I know it cuts down on 2 risks - that she gets hit in the back of the head unexpectedly while running
- that she falls backward while playing D and her head hits ground.

All this talk is nonsense. I know I can reduce these 2 risks and she will not have goggles to mess around with every 5 seconds…wearing the helmet is a no-brainer.

Studies have been done. Helmets do not prevent concussion injuries. Rules that are already on the books should be enforced and coaches should teach the correct way to play. Rather than having less skilled girls maul skilled players because the can't keep up. Coaching theory of force the ref to make a call is the biggest threat to girls safety.

I thought studies have shown that women's helmet reduce concussions. And separate studies showed that wearing helmets do NOT change the behavior of players. I guess you choose what you want to read.

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/10/08/sports/lacrosse-girls-high-school-helmets-concussions.html

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/315971181_Helmets_in_women's_lacrosse_what_the_evidence_shows

Love when everyone starts putting out the studies. Studies show drinking wine is great in moderation, and others show drinking wine is terrible. Studies show intermittent fasting is fantastic, and others show how terrible it is for you. Use your eyes. Don't rely on "studies" which always have an ulterior motive.

Deflection.