Use this thread for miscellaneous complaints about coaches, parents, refs, directors etc.....

Why would you promote this? There is enough complaints in the board especially when everyone is anonymous . Why let people and programs be slandered .

wth are you talking bout Willis?

This thread was created to clear up the Lost and Found thread that has become something it should not be.

Relax and don't slander anyone!!

my sons coach is a mean person
my sons summer team charges too much
my wife keeps getting older
nobody thinks my kid is as good as I know he is
the girls game has too many whistles
early recruiting is great if you sign early
early recruiting sucks if you don't sign early
if they had sticks like today's when I played I would have rocked
my boss undervalues my worth
i hate Gary Coleman references
Trumps douchery is taking away from the other candidates douchery
did i mention that my wife keeps getting older

You forgot one.

Your a gimp.

Supports the site's recent move toward being more like the Jerry Springer show.

You're a gimp

Of which your a contributor. Congrats!!

Ground balls during a face off should be an entirely different stat. It's one thing to get a loose ball from anywhere on the field and a different thing to have "loose" ball set right in front of your face.

to go a step further - F/O wins should only be clean wins they need a new stat for "team" face off win - it is so silly when a kid wins the draw clean, ball goes right to the wing person who doesn't control the GB, a scrum happens and the other team gets the ball, now the fogo gets the win when in fact he lost the draw

Should be some interesting conversation on here

Anonymous posters suck and should not be allowed to post on BOTC - the dialog would be greatly enhanced by register users only post rule

While I personally agree with you, the web policy allows anonymous posting. Maybe we can look at it as keeping us all on out toes. Also, people who do not post with their names are really anonymous as well.

.....and yet you post anonymously yourself. Dopey

There used to be links to most of the Long Island-based travel team websites (as well as Connecticut and Maryland teams), which was a good resource for players and parents looking for these organizations. Why were those taken down? Can those be put back on the site?

They were taken down because some of the clubs were acting in a manner that were not in the best interest of the players or their parents. BOTC will not promote clubs that are not focused on the kids as much as they are to their bottom-line.

We have organizations like My Tournaments/Team 91/LI Hurricanes/ and quite a few more all owned and run by the same people. They appear to manipulate their teams in their own tournaments.

BOTC commands a very serious amount of views over the course of a day, week, and month, so much so, that we found ourselves being used...and we have stopped that.

By having a list of clubs we would be contributing to this "smoke and mirrors" mechanism on the part of multiple teams under a single ownership or control.

If you have a question about a specific club you can email or private message us or make a post.

As I told the folks at My Tournaments, Sean Chamberlain & Co., when they kept your money after canceling the Lax Fest, and BOTC took them to task on this board, and received a terse and combative toned phone call basically telling me that their advertising bought our silence, I informed the caller that BOTC is NOT for sale to any advertiser.

if a club screws up or [lacrosse] over a player or does anything that we deem unsatisfactory we will say something...advertiser or not.

Rock on Larry!!!

Hilarious! Posts like this make BOTC irresistable.

My beef is with clubs that can't get back to you when you send e-mail asking a few questions. Three clubs have not gotten back to me in over a week now. I know people go on vacation and such, but all these clubs sent emails out regarding tryouts. Is it too much to ask to have someone monitor your business website and respond back ? Even a simple- we don't know yet, is better than nothing.

smart move.

I can see your point about not wanting to support clubs with some self serving motives, but I still think there should be a website where someone can go to see all of the clubs in an area of the country and also see what level of play (AA, A, B, etc) those clubs typically register their teams.

Not supporting those clubs is admirable and just; however, not allowing those clubs to be mentioned on a lacrosse board (positively or negatively) is silly. Like a 8 year old taking his ball and going home and ruining for the rest of the kids that want to play.

Where are the Hurricane parents? 3/4 grade team was ran poorly. Coach pulled out of a tournament without letting most of the team know. They were wandering around the tournament looking for him. The dad called the night before and was told by the coach that he was busy eating . Ended up with a college kid coaching the sidelines most games and barely got the ball over the mid line.Then they brought in part of a team from Massapequa for another game. Parents were chasing them for refunds that were promised but ended up with a $250 credit for next season. This team seems like it was a 91 off shoot simply set up to hurt igloos numbers . Same thing with the Ducks this year near Legacy .

Hurricanes had a great thing going, but the Director was a no show and the guy that 91 assigned to run it couldn't care less about the club. He was an all star lax player at and when he showed up to the Hub, all he did was talk to coaches or sit on the bench. They will be thanked by nobody re-enrolling this season. Maybe they can learn their lesson that parents aren't stupid and they watch what goes on!!

The players who were on Hurricanes never would have made Igloo. No loss there.

Please. It's Igloo, not the Bandits. Plenty of those kids would have made it.

Work sucks today

my wife's cooking sucks

Completely untrue! Busy eating? Walking around a tournament? That is biggest bunch of nonsense I have seen in a while. Come on guy. Instead of an anonymous post why dont you send Legacy an email or call them?

I see the term "dad coach" thrown around here pretty often, usually in a negative way. Is this because of the perceived and/or actual favoritism towards their own kids? What exactly constitutes a "dad coach". Example, Joe Smith coaches his sons club team but is also the head coach of a school's varsity or JV team. Does that render him dad coach status?

Yes. That's dad coach status. People have to accept the fact that any parent coaching their kid will have an inherent bias. And based upon experience with many teams the coaches kid is one of the more skilled players 90% of the time (I did not say best player). Often that is a simple function of parent having devoted time to playing one on one with their child. Most important is whether the parent coach is qualified. Good luck trying to find enough experienced and qualified non-parent coaches for all of these teams. And unless you are willing to step up and coach and do a better job, stop complaining. Welcome to life.

We also see that the dad coaches son never comes off the field, gets choice spots whether they belong there or not and let's not forget about daddy coaches son's best friends. I can deal with that in town teams for a lousy few hundred. But when it's a few grand I'd rather have an unbiased coach. And plenty of good teams have those.

A breath of fresh air
Values and ethics trumps greed
Rarely seen these days

Thanks for the reply and I agree with your last sentence in particular. I do find it a bit disheartening that this term is given such a negative connotation around here

No doubt an independent coach is the ideal. I'm just suggesting that there are not enough good coaches even if you're paying. And I'm just pointing out reality. My own son is faced with the issue. The coach and [lacrosse]'t coach both have a son on the team. That's 2 spots immediately filled. And at least two other kids are friends and play in the same town and they are not very good. Doesn't matter, that's now 4 spots filled. The conflicts abound. I can suck it up and deal with it or I can waste countless hours trying to find teams for my son to try out for where there is no parent coach. I suspect that just trying to extract that information during tryouts will be near impossible. Values and ethics should trump greed but it won't.

My two sons are both on travel teams with Daddy coaches. It's a tale of two cities.

On one team, the coaches's sons are assist machines and play any position needed by the team and coaches are tough on them. Total communication and organization. Kids have fun, get in a ton of practices and tons of reps in practice. No BS. Plenty of championships but also losses to better teams they can learn from.

On the other team, coaches's sons are nice kids who belong on the team but not starting. Coaches are good but the overplaying of their kids is tearing team apart. Tons of BS. It's sad because it's a great group of kids.

As parents, I think we all know there is going to be some coach's courtesy to their sons, but it's got to be balanced and the coach's have to have a grip on reality and care about putting the team first.

Bill Tierney is a dad coach, he and his son did okay. His kid was a goalie though, so it is different all together. Maybe that is the key, dad coaches should have fogos or goalies.

Many say his preference for his son playing at Priceton is a reason for him being asked to leave.

Isn't he the Denver coach who said he would never recruit early but somehow there are 2018s verbally committed?

Parent coaching goes bad when their sons aren't strong players and they over play them. This creates a problem in youth, hs, or even college. In youth whem the coach builds a team around his mediocre so it's a reciepe for disaster. No one is fooled.

Everyone ready for this years CATTLE CALLS !

MMMMOOOOOWWWWW!!!!!!!

Are you excited to mow your lawn?

Conflicting tryout dates.

Why do the Long Island based Clubs not have their own
Threads while the Maryland Clubs do?

Now.. I have a question for you.. Who are you and who are you affiliated with?

We do not discuss our business with anonymous posters.

If you want to know register and sign in or email me.

I am a long time consumer of your product.
I am sitting on the LIRR right now looking through
Postings My wife has my son at a tryout tonight.
I was looking for feedback from other consumers
Before I commit thousands of dollars to another year
Of travel lacrosse. Back of the Cage was always a
Good source of club specific information. No conspiracy

Well, then you have plenty of time to send me an email.

cjowins@optonline.net

There is a rumor abounding at this years tryouts that a Chaminade coach is instructing his 2018 players to avoid playing for certain travel teams...I'm guessing any travel team that isn't Express or poses any kinda talent drain to Express. My kid plays for neither, but parents if this is true, what the &$@!, it's time to stop the nonsense and push back ...who makes these decisions, you or the coach...so many are afraid of blowing there kids chances by pissing off the coach...what have we come to...these guys can suck your wallet dry with their travel team associations AND determine your kids future for you...? where is the loyalty, they get to make you break ties with teams who taught your kid to play the game? this sucks and we give them this power by knuckling under...anybody hear this same rumor. What do you feel about it?

I say good for them. Sorry I may be in the minority. I want to strengthen my son's HS team. I wished my son's HS coach gave direction such as this.

It all comes down to the $$, is it reasonable or not. That is where I get a little nervous. You have a captivated audience, no need to milk them dry.

Feel sorry for the kids who get forced to play for HS coach and get limited playtime for both HS team and travel. How do you handle that??

I don't see this as a good thing at all. If the coach said we are practicing at the school as a team, okay maybe, but to not play on specific travel teams because the coach supports another or gains profit from one, is not okay. I hope this rumor is false.

There's been a rumor floating around that the coach of the Northport girl's lacrosse program directs the girls towards a particular travel program. Are these rumors accurate? Has anyone else heard similar?
Also on the same subject - I've heard buddies of mine down in Maryland say the same thing about the McDonogh girls program and the coach there directing the players towards a particular travel club program. I wonder if all these rumors are true...

hey, I'm all for keeping your school team strong...but nobody plays travel during school, maybe they train with travel before, but that is making them better...this is about coaches telling kids AND which programs that can play for and more specifically which they CAN NOT! this seems to be done in order to cut the competitive legs off those programs as they grow into possible contention with Express, No consideration as to parental choice, logistics of other children participation in the programs and it's location. It's about captive players and collecting another 'Check'. Parents should be contacting the Chaminade and asking the administrative staff how they could turn a blind eye to these strong arm tactics by one of their own...but they don't because they too are afraid to 'mess with success'...it's a shame, thought Chaminade stood for more than that...and I know they are not alone, express has it's greedy little fingers into all the top schools coaches...3

Why not start by getting the story straight before you come on here bashing the Chaminade coach?

this subject had gotten my Irish up...my son is 2019 entering Chaminade in the fall, he plays for the program that was allegedly singled out...if the coaching staff their thinks they can browbeat parents into accepting these mandates, they are in for a fight...several other fathers that spoke on the subject feel similarly, we will pull our kids in mass. play for our already highly touted HS ( several from same nassau community, you know which one)... I'm told a legally represented letter to CHSAA alerting to this ( they know but want to be on the record) is in the works by one of 2018 dads... another dad is likewise placing calls to a friend at the NYSSWA to get someone do a story (I've heard)...all this needless nonsense that these parents are now going through because a coach sees himself as something more than that...all this before my son even steps foot through the doors,... sad...be careful looking the other way Chaminade, a good few are rethinking the choice of going there. What's more important? Your integrity or your coaches wallet?

Your referencing the two best travel programs in the nation, hands down, and the best school program in the nation, hands down. A bigger problem is when HS coaches are involved with crappy clubs, and players are forced to give up good clubs to go play for some half assed money making scheme the coach puts together.

LOL post of the day

OK people lets remember there are two side to every story here. Regarding the Chaminade situation if you are not 100% privy to the actual details why post here without all the facts. If you are involved and know the details post them

This is what I know and please correct me if I am wrong. There is an underlying issue between the Chaminade coach and a particular travel team and it has nothing to do with guiding players to any particular club team. The Chaminade coach was unhappy the way this travel program treated Chaminade players when they had to miss a summer travel event to play in a school event for Chaminade. Remember this is just a handful of player from each team from 9th-11th grade. The handling of the request by the travel program resulted in players being disciplined. This did not sit well with the Chaminade coach. So if a coach tries to protect his players from unfair treatment is an issue with you than you can complain. These are the facts I was made aware of.

stop whining, do what you want with your kid and make your kid the best player they can be, if they are the best they will play if they are not then they will not - many many players have started for both Chammy and St A's the last few years that did not play express but they were the best so they played, Chaminaide is loaded with 91 players that are and will be starters for the next few years including probably the best mid and D - so just stop it.

it's a parents responsibility to protect their kids outside of the game, not the coach's...when a coach says" I better not hear of anybody playing for $&@" he has overstepped his bounds, set himself up to supersede parents wishes... and I know the whole story, so didn't need the recap...All I'm saying is we pay a pretty hefty tuition to these schools, they in turn pay the coach to do just that, coach. Not legislate who the players can play for,regardless of his personal feeling on the subject. We'll protect our kids, Coach's coach the team...it's the outside interests that muddle the picture and make being objective impossible. Parents who didn't agree with the travel teams handling of the situation can take it up with them or switch teams, no need to have that parental control ripped away. And, your delusional if you think best players always end up on top, we need not have that conversation. For the record, I didn't agree with the severity oftravel teams decision, but I respect the people involved. They had EVERY players interests in mind, not just the few.

and as for the whole story...not interested in putting people out there who were deceptive as to where they were going to be, thus missing a team commitment, leaving the team short handed...vague for a reason because these are class people and absolutely great kids...we have all done it...called in sick to go golfing, etc...when busted, disapline warranted, disapline meet...severity was the only question for me...but, I have no problem with the travel teams staff feeling that the teams were let down and the teammates as well... the caliber of the players involved was undeniable and Chaminade is blessed to have them...the coach looks like a Saint for sticking up for his players...never mind it served his interests to deny the other teams...and now he is the hero...stop it...Coaches who stop over this line need to be reigned back in...or is looking the other way when players break commitments as long as they are not yoursthe lessons YOU want taught by your coach...enough said on this subject, raise your kids as you see fit, Good luck to all

Players were disciplined for their HS coaches decision to have them play in a tournament. Overall I believe a players commitment is to their High School. So why discipline the kids? I don't think anyone was deceptive about where they were going to play on that particular weekend. So I think that's a bit misleading. The fact that kids were disciplined because their coach from Chaminade required them to play for him is what twisted the Chaminade Coach.

"Twisted" covers it...Coach is at fault for 'REQUIRING' these young men to break a commitment entered into with travel teammates and coaches...that's why I didn't necessarily agree with disapline, who is going to go against their HS coach in that circumstance, especially with that team...Don't fault the boys or parents for stepping into line even though it was costly both financially to the parents and competitively for the teams...should not of been put in that position...this is where we are at, these coaches control our kids futures and dictate the terms of they're staying in good graces, we gave them that power, we should take it back....had the circumstances been reversed and the players opted to last minute cancel on their HS team leaving them undermanned in a key tournament, I would bet the house the HS coach would have met out some serious type of disapline...yet the travel team is painted as the bad guys for doing the same...just a little hypocritical...Then to ORDER them to cut ties with an organization they have been happily associated with since they learned to play the game because disaplines were handed out, that's where the line is crossed and affiliationsKDk5FP with other organizations are brought into question...what's the true motivation? that question wouldn't be asked if these outside interests didn't exist...nobody says your not entitled to make a buck in the off season, but every bodies integrity is tested when these situation arise...again, sad.

if you parents are sending your kids to Chaminade just for lacrosse , that's just sad. Travel lacrosse parents have blinders on and make most decisions including picking a college based on lacrosse offers and playing time. IF your kid quit the game tomorrow, would they be in the right school or college?

Athletics and other extra curricular activities are all part of the experience and shouldn't be discounted. You want a well round kid when HS is over. Academics are most important , but can't say disregard everything else when making decisions.

These benches are very deep and at St.Ant's the benches were used poorly.Unfortunately for thos just entering into each school,if you don't like it,they can and will tell you to go back to where you came.
Best of Luck!

As I like to think I am not new to this, each year brings its own bit of challenges (not limited or different to any other years challenges).

regarding the catholic schools affiliations and some of the issues. I would like my son to either be a flyer or Friar and in this time of year we are narrowing which club to continue with or consider.

Understanding their benches are deep what gets my son (who works his tail off) on the short side of the bench. What clubs are seen as friendly with them (outside of Express). What club was recently put on their S/list.

I know commited kids from both that are looking to leave the schools and play last few years in public . Not happy with the old school style of coaching and apparently more people echoing the sentiments that they were saying don't worry about my jr high school boy playing express

Don't let the door hit them on the way out! JM and his "old school" coaching has worked out pretty well over 30+ years at Chaminade. Oh, but you're right Mommy and Daddy probably have more credibility and wisdom to bestow when it comes to coaching HS lacrosse. Goodbye and good luck to any kid who doesn't think he is getting top quality coaching and, more importantly, a top quality education at Chaminade.

It's about the education not lacrosse. Everyone living through their kids needs a reality check. Lacrosse means nothing now and even less in a few years. Enjoy your kids.

That's all very true. Hall of Fame coach!! Probably not a more decorated coach, school or lacrosse program!

The part you left out with all of the HS coaches being involved with clubs is the conflict of interest, money making and politics that did not exist 30 years ago!! It's all unfortunate but true. There were no clubs 30 years ago. Was much better for kids and coaches were focused on teaching and coaching, not making money!!

I think your saying that some couldn't hack it academically others couldn't handle the structure, and others who just couldn't hack it on the lacrosse field, its that plain and simple. If your going to a school for just lacrosse which is scary especially at this age and you are not getting playing time you leave. The teams are that good and yes you will see a committed kid leave because he isn't getting playing time. Happens all the time.

This is crazy. I was a Head coach (not express) and had 7 Chaminade players on my team. I knew before the season started about this tourney they were asked "ASKED" not required to play in so I did not schedule anything that weekend. Sure the kids felt obligated because they wanted to play for their HS coach what kid wouldn't want to. It was open to all 9-11 graders. Plenty to choose from to field a team.

Is Top Lacrosse Tournaments a Legacy vehicle as part of their plan to take over the lax world? Similar Web Site, Same Venue in East Islip.....Will this be just another version of the "other guys"?

Of course it it. They are following the identical business model: heavy marketing, swallow smaller competitive teams, run your own tourneys and charge your players a double dip. They're just about 3-4 years behind the other.

Most likely looking for an alternative for other organizations that have been screwed over by My Lacrosse scheduling or no refund cancellations .

If parents and players knew about this HS tourney BEFORE travel season began then no one would have obligated to play with their travel team. My understanding is it was not known about till commitments were already entered into and set. That's what lead to this mess...fact is, recognizing that it was more last minute than not, each had to make a choice...again, can't blame the travel team for disaplining those who opted out last minute, just cooler heads should have prevailed across the board. Hopefully there will be a meeting of the minds and sort it out more amiably... The nonsense needs to end, travel teams serve a vital role in developement and recruitment, probably have surpassed the HS team for shear exposure. ( not that team, but in general )HS coaches trying recapture that importance before they become irrelevant in the process... Most blue chip players are commited before they hit varsity, so varsity coaches ARE becoming a little irrelevant to the particular endevour...parents need to be the custodians of that process, not the coach regardless of 30 years in the game. They may know more about it but doesn't make them infalable or uncorruptable. Arrogant to think you know what's better for my kid than I do, even if true.

A friend told me about this site and it really is like driving by a car wreck. You just can’t help but keep looking. And here I am now writing something just so I feel heard. There are people here (and they all sound like parents) bitching and sniping about youth lacrosse. Really kind of pathetic that people feel the need to complain about how unfair the system is for a 2024 team. That’s 4th grade right? Man, that’s rough when you are convinced that your 4th grader’s future is determined by what summer team he plays on and even sadder if, as a parent, you believe they have failed if they don’t make the AA team in a particular program.

Here's a fact. Lacrosse has changed dramatically and so much of the fun has been sucked out of it. Your kids don’t just go out and play anymore for the sake of playing. They go out and pound the wall at your behest to get better for the next tryout so they can make the next team because you, the parents, have convinced yourselves that lacrosse equals success. That is success not only for your child but in some warped way you view it as success for yourself, that it somehow elevates your status in the community and reflects your achievements. Guess what? It doesn’t. If you went to a crap college or no college and feel like you didn’t reach your full potential the fact that your son is the leading goal scorer for the 2022 Black team isn’t going to change that one bit. And if you were a HS All-American that played at Virginia, got a great wall street job and make lots of money? Good for you, congrats. The fact that your son is on the 2018 B team and doesn’t have shot at playing in college doesn’t make him a failure because he didn’t walk in your shoes. It just makes you a [lacrosse] for holding him to that standard.

Here’s what is true:

1. There is no pot of scholarship gold at the end of the rainbow. We’ve all heard it but no one wants to believe it. Everyone hangs on to the belief that it may be different for their kid. If you were too busy spending money on summer teams and clinics hoping to develop that next superstar and didn’t save a dime for college that just makes you stupid. Welcome to Nassau CC.

2. Unless your kid is a really really good student in addition to being a stud athlete, they are not getting into Princeton. Could your star athlete really not get into Mount St. Mary’s without lacrosse? That’s really not a very high bar to get over. Here’s a novel idea, spend just half as much time riding them to do well in school as you do working on their weak hand and you may be surprised about the opportunities that open up without a lacrosse stick.

3. Playing lacrosse in college is cool but be careful what you ask for. I’ve lost count of the college players that graduate and are completely incapable of surviving in the real world as their peers go out and get real jobs. All those hours of hard work playing on a team sounds like a great platform for future success, right? Wrong. You missed out on all of the other activities that help you form and develop life skills. A ridiculous number of players are years out of college scraping by coaching clinics, camps and, no surprise, summer teams.

4. These summer teams are businesses. And just like your workplace politics are involved. It may be true that Johnny didn’t make the team because a weaker player’s cousin plays for Duke and the coaches want that kid just to say “his older cousin plays for Duke” and for some bizarre reason hope that the kid gets better because it’s in his genes. Welcome to real life. It’s not going to define your son whether he’s 9 or 18.

5. If you are that good of a player. You will be found.

I’m sure I’m opening myself up to comments like, “his kid must suck” and things of that nature so I will tell you that my kid is slightly above average, plays on an average team and loves to play despite the pressures of the current environment. But he does recognize the pressure and despite his mental toughness sometimes resents the atmosphere for what is only a game. Early signs of burn out. He’s only 12.

Or they weren't happy with their cut from when MLT ran things for them.

Thank you for a well written truthful post. Unfortunately most of those that need to hear it will read it and not see themselves anyway.

I would agree with some of what you said but for my son, he got into a much better school than he could have without lax. Got substantial scholarship money. It elevated the respect our family got in the community. This all happened because of extreme sacrifice by all parties involved. My son always striving to be better. This meant jumping from team to team like a ladder. Us as parents putting Lacrosse first so many times we were not able to do things other "normal " families do, because of the cost of the travel, and putting up with the training which at times put great stress on the whole family. Was it all worth it? Yes!! The lessons learned through this journey will enable my son to succeed in whatever he chooses to do. It has already opened so many doors for him, and he is taking advantage of the connections made. He has inspired his younger siblings to have a strong work ethic, so they can hope to follow in his footsteps. We were never a "political" family. Just a family that worked together so our son could succeed. Through the good, bad and ugly of youth sports!

Wow two excellent perspectives. I feel like I am right in the middle and its tough to figure out. I will definitely have both sides in m thoughts when I make a decision about my son

His kid must suck!


Just kidding.

If that's true you are quite lucky and should be proud but if your perceive that your status is somehow elevated by your son's success, that's a bit disturbing to me. His status is not yours. Either way you took a big gamble and won. Most will not and you can't get that time back. They are only children for a short while.

What you maybe don't realize is that getting a kid to that level is a joint effort. The parents are a major part of a kids success no matter how great kid is, they need support and advice throughout the journey. When ever I am out in my community, people come up and congratulate me on my son an our whole families commitment to our kids. That what I mean about status. And it feels good! We never saw this as a gamble. Just working together, sacrifice, for a goal. I believe you need these qualities to be successful at anything. Good life lessons if nothing else.

I also have a committed son, and our process was no where near as intensive for him or the family as it has apparently been for others. Did we sit in traffic on the way down to MD for a tourny? Yes, but there was more fun and family time on those car rides and in those cramped hotel rooms than we would have ever had at home. I would again pay--probably double--to have those days again.

Laughing , joking, singing (and yes, cursing the traffic and the merge at 8A) all the way up and down the NJ turnpike. We are a closer family as a result.

For those of us parents that work full time--how often do you really have a family dinner at home at 6pm like most of us did when we were growing up? Hardly ever in my house, but on those trips, we were together, 24/7, breakfast , lunch and dinner and then when they were younger, sitting by the hotel pool...

Now, if you spend that time telling your kid what he did wrong and how much harder he needs to work to play at the next level, you missed an opportunity to bond with your kid...but you also probably would have done the same thing at home.

Sometimes, people need to see the forest through the trees and recognize that whether it is lax in MD or soccer in philly, it is an opportunity to know and bond with the people that should matter most in your life. Stop looking ahead to what may or may not happen in the future and enjoy the time...

As far as the recruitment process, I posted on the 2018 site a few days back with some of the things that worked for us. Mine did get athletic dollars, but 25%, while great, at a great school, which I will not name, is not going to change my life or his...

Keep it fun and use your time wisely, it is coming to an end quickly. Soon, they will be at college, whether they play lax or not, that drive home after you drop them off at the dorms, is never laughing and singing, mostly you and the others in your car crying!

One club starts teams in Maryland. Legacy teams up with Laxachusetts and starts Legacy Boston. Exact same model.

Here is a fact, there are many,travel parents that will send their kid to any college that offers them a spot and a few bucks so they can continue the water cooler talk of my kid is on the Black team and now my kid has been recruited and got a scholarship to play at school XYZ

The kids going to Princeton are few are far between but those kids should be applauded for bundling athletics and academics to get a great education.

The other parents needs to ask themselves that if their kid wasn't playing lacrosse, is there any chance their kid would have ever picked that school for academics, location and fit?

Bravo. Sometimes I wish I didn't find this site. And as someone else mentioned, the people who this does apply to, won't realize it. "he must be talking about someone else"

Nice post. I coach 12 year olds and try very hard to keep things fun, although we have pretty intense practices (that doesn't mean red-faced screaming, just little downtime and try to minimize goofing around). It's a lot of pressure on the bottom of the roster who are improving, whether it's little things like suprise popcicles or ending practice with a fun contest, it seems to work. For the first time, we had a our last tournament in July and all the kids just wanted to know when practice started back up again. My point is that you can't forget what a wonderful age that is because they can accomplish more as athletes but are still KIDS. Heck, watch the Duke coaching clinics and listen to how hard Danowski tries to end his practices on a fun note. Not sure we as parents and coaches should ever stop making sure the experience is fun.

I've found many director at different clubs are part of 2 organizations. Is this a conflict of interest or are clubs really part of other clubs?

How about Directors that run multiple tournaments? That smells the worst

Amen...this s/b required reading by ALL folks on not only this site, but to anyone ever thinking about having their child play travel lacrosse.
What never seems to get out to folks is the fact that even at a "big time', D1 program, the money that gets doled out to a lacrosse proghram is not that much. Not to mention there are 30+ kids to split whatever dollar amount that program gets. So...if you saved the 2k+ every year for the next 5/6 years, it would prob be more than whatever your child would get in college...

Why , if its a quality tournament that gets the directors teams to play against quality competition , who cares.

Seriously? You usually play other teams in your own club and you pay full retail for the director to double dip. Sounds like the Mob.

not true - my son has played travel lacrosse since second grade and is now in college - he played on well coached travel teams and we never paid more then $1,000 a year tuition - he is getting more athletic money per year then we paid for all the travel tuition combined.... we did not do it for that reason or chase the scholarship dream but it didn't suck when it found him

I have posted on other boards similar messages to what I am going to reply to you. Many many kids go to sleep away camp every summer at cost many times what travel lacrosse costs us, a one week family vacation or cruise would cost more then a whole summer of lacrosse, - we choose to spend our money and vacation time with our kids and have a great time doing it, my dad would have loved to spend every second of his weekends with me and my brothers on long road trips to exotic places and get to watch us play lacrosse, My wife and I are loving the experience and treasuring the time we get to spend with your kids "on the road" and would not trade it for a trip to Hawaii every year......it is not about ROI it is about investing your time and money into your children

I would love to know what program because I agree that time with the kids is great but sharing a sideline and hotel with most travel parents makes your skin crawl. If you come out of it with 1 or 2 other families on a team of 25 that you like, trust, respect and would like to associate with after lacrosse you did great. Most are there just for their kids - team and teammates be damned!

Agreed. It is a construct that only exists because of the business model. And the business model doesn't really care about your kids, it cares only about making money. And that's OK but you have to appreciate it for what it is. Ultimately it's an absurd way for people to be spending so much of their time because they feel that they have to in order to keep progressing and to avoid missing out on anything. Playing lacrosse is great, getting better is great, getting recruited to colleges great. But the current environment totally sucks.

Thank you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I applaude the candor, wisdom and perspective of the last few posters. doesn't seem like the complaint dept. More like the sage advice dept. My son just got dropped by his 2019 A team...he is broken hearted, needed to cheer him up and reminded him that this is a journey, all sports are a journey, you take it together. I reminded him of how much he has improved through the last few years with that club, the friendships he has made, the memories...not wasted time, good times, yes, as you said, even in traffic on the jersey turnpike and cheap motels in Maryland, we did it together and are closer for it, hope he does the same for his kid...he'll pick himself up today and head out another teams tryout and we will start the process again with new kids, families and coaches...wouldn't want it any other way...

Wishing your son all the best and may he shine at his next tryout.

fl$ 's feud with Chaminade has officially reached a new low....

Just throwing that out there or you actually have some information to post ?

Good luck, things happen for a reason and you and your son will be just fine because you have the right attitude. Prove people wrong!!

I have been there with one of my sons and it is heart breaking but he came out a better person for all he got out of it and persevering and finding a new "home" team. He's in the recruiting process now and had learned so much from all the coaches over the years and doubled his friendships between the two teams.

It wasn't easy at first but it was good in the end. I hope your son feels better soon and I wish him luck. Parenting is not always easy and our hearts often feel their pain more deeply than they even do.

Happened to my son two years ago when he was going into 7th grade. Kid was one of the leading scorers on the team. He couldn't understand it, was devastated. I told him, literally F$3@ them, now they can't have you on their team. We'll find a new team. It wasn't easy, it was towards the end of tryout season. He was accepted to a couple of B teams at the last minute. He tried a few practices and he felt the kids weren't on his level. We reached out to another club in early December. All the while continuing to train. He went to an indoor practice with this team. He had what he thought was an OK practice. Turns out the coaches loved him. He became one of the center pieces of the new teams offense. Fast forward to the spring. He gets an opportunity to play his old team. He blows their doors off with 3 goals and 2 assts in the first half. To the point where they're face guarding him in a ole OBLL game at field of dreams.
Fast forward to the summer, they meet again. They face guard and double him all game. He still manages to get the ball with 20 seconds left. Finds his teammate on the doorstep and they win again.
The season is now over, we're on Vacation. The Director of the old team is calling me begging to have him back, we made a mistake, on and on. So I string him along, I even pay for the tryout. Guy is calling day before, can't wait to have him back, blah, blah, blah. I say we'll see you tomorrow.
Let's just say, I hope they're still not waiting for him to show at the tryout.... Can't tell you how good that made me and my son feel. We laughed ourselves silly over it.
Today he's still doing great. He has a number of D1 schools very interested.
Point of this whole story: Just keep playing and don't let some dopey club tell you whether or not your son is good enough to play at a top level. Listen to yourself and your son! Things can and will workout for the best.

It's not fl$ , Its FOR THE LOVE OF MONEY

would love to hear more on that subject, not because I'm into this gossip crap, but if a team is seriously on the outs with a targeted highschool for my son, I would like to know...save myself the time, money and trouble...come on, let's hear the latest

thanks for your support and kind words, trying to keep perspective...he feels better because several kids from the team that dropped him have reached out through their multitude of social networks and said the team screwed up, that the kids they dropped him for although ok, are not as good as my son because they know them, same school..his ****Deleted****told him he should of made it...seems like they added a bunch of one certain HS's players, so the drop may have had a political component...makes him feel better but betrayed, he trusted them to make selections on merit alone, turns out certain kids who made the team never even made the second night of tryouts...makes me shake my head...such nonsense...I too trusted this team was different...he may not of made it on merit in the coaches eyes, but this info doesn't allow for a clean break on the subject...anyway, thanks again...

come on, you gotta expand on that statement, was targeting that team this year, but the feud thing made me think twice...something new you heard about fl$/Chaminade face off?

They cut the kids involved in the summer tournemant dispute when it happened. Now they have gotten real nasty and cut their siblings, cousins and other returning players identified as "Chaminade kids." Current and prosepctive Flyers beware!

At the 2019 age group?

so what teams are friendly with Chaminade and St Anthony's. If you cant say maybe then all of the teams are and where you play is a crock of @#$!

Which team?

Heard it was taking Manhassat kids over GC kids on 2020 hadn't heard the Chaminade angle

In '20 there are still GC kids on the team. 3 did not make the team and it had nothing to do with the said Catholic school dispute. in '20 is was based on the talent of who showed up at the tryout. I am a parent NOT from Gc or 'Set.

CHAMINIDE WILL RULE WITH OR WITHOUT THE STUPID CLUB POLITICS. THE TOP OF THE LINE , CREAM OF THE CROP, SUPERIOR BREEDING ALWAYS COMES THRU.

You are a [lacrosse]!!!

That worked real well for the Germans, did it...

You just dropped the mic on that dude!

Not what happened last year when they versed the LI publics. LOL!!!!

do you breed extra "I"'s at ChaminAde

I think the OLM broodmare that dropped you on your head and the Chaminade Stud that conceived you must be so proud of the gelding they have in you

Gelding...... That is funny:)

All I have to say is WARD MELVILLE! ! See you Cham snob!

Well, as I said, trying to take the high road and give the benefit of the doubt to the coaches who evaluated the tryout, but with all the Manhasset helmets that were there, gotta think something else was in the works despite the tryout itself...hearing that all the other ages had a similar look confirms it...looks like they are turning their backs on the Catholic school boys, padding their team with publics because they have been blackballed at Chaminade ( we can only assume since the Express relationship carries to all the Catholics' coaches, so might the ban... ) Cutting their loses early before players are told to by HS coaches...good business decision,..crappy thing to do to kids who are in their recruitment years! (never mind their innocent younger siblings). Basically shot them in the foot by not being upfront about this move, allowing the parents and kids the ability to chose another organizations tryout...Express and 91 were same night, so these kids now have limited ability to play on higher exposure teams...Wow, gotta hand it to you, had me fooled, believed you were about the kids first, that's what you professed, what you said set you apart... still think handing out disapline for the summer tourney fiasco was proper, I agreed with principle not the severity of the disapline...still defend the stand taken, that a commitment is a commitment...however, this late reversal of moral fiber in favor of future monetary stability is sorrowful...pandering to certain schools, padding the team with kids who didn't even come to the tryout, thought you were above that nonsense...I think you can piece together which team...

You don't "verse" somebody, you play them. (Sorry, pet peeve.)

For the love of the Green....

Agree

So fl$ runs another pricy tryout... collects tryout fees from everyone that shows expecting a fair shot; yet they secretly have blackball list for anyone in catholic school(especially Chaminade).

That might be a new low in lacrosse.

Also, as far as the discipline and dispute goes, yes the players have obligations to both teams (and teammates) but. in my book the obligation to school team trumps the "pay travel" team.

In the "customer is always right" mindset, fl$ should have made an accommodation for their players(paying customers).

Teams change tourneys all the time...unless perhaps it was a fl$ affiliated tourney that they line their own pockets with tourney fees (the old double dip).

Isn't it just possible that the kids selected were just better?

That's what happened at 2020

Amen! Terribly disappointing behavior from an organization that prides and markets itself on being above all of this low-brow stuff. They could not have handled these tryouts any worse. I also don't see the upside in going to war with Chaminade. There are lots of travel teams out there for kids/parents to choose from.....but there is only one Chaminade.

Winkoff is a very vindictive man. Not as nice as people think. I admit real good lacrosse coach but has a nasty side to him.

Get your facts straight. Chaminade kids or not signed on to play for team for a two month summer season. Numbers on that team are finite. If they don't show for a tournament team could be significantly diluted. They committed. Numbers for Chaminade summer team are infinite in the off season and they can be replaced. Chaminade coach fired the first silo about what program to not play for... FACT. '20 team still has 2 GC kids that were skilled enough to make the team. Three Manhasset kids defected from Express and earned their spots adding to the Manhasset contingent on the team--there was no cencerted effort to go out and get more Manhasset players vs. GC. Several Manhasset kids that tried out did not make the team. Sour grapes from some GC parents... Go Manhasset. Woodstick will reside on the North Shore for years to come.

So the fact that there were a lot of Manhassset helmets at the tryout means something else was in the works?

Take it down a notch Manhasset Daddy....

Vindictive? Perhaps. Real good lacrosse coach? Are you serious? Have you seen him on the sidelines? He's a joke. Ranting and raving half the time, barking at kids and then contradicting himself seconds later. Painful to watch.

Exactly. No dog in this hunt but based on the Manhasset tool's last comment, I hope GC pounds Manhasset next year.

Thus my first statement about benefit of doubt, I saw the tryouts, consider myself pretty objective guy...if team wants to go in another fdirection, so be it...not denying that beauty is in the eye of the beholder, in this case talent...it's all the garbage associated with this situation that brings out this rhetoric...and kids who don't even come to a night of tryouts can neither be better nor worse, regardless of past play history...just not an even playing field, fee aside, just not what was expected from this organization...my son got better playing with team, grateful, really positive experience and attitudes towards teaching, that's why we were surprised...enough said, good luck to all ghe boys

Sorry to hear. Good luck to you and I hope your son finds a competitive team with good people to play with.

Here's a new twist on reclassifying.

Kid announces he is going to do a PG year.

Still graduates with his age appropriate class, but plays DOWN a year for his Club team (i.e. will graduate 2017 but plays on 2018 club).

Thoughts?

It stinks but the world we live in now is that 2018 means the year they will be entering college not the year they are graduating HS, for most kids it is the same year but for a kid the is going to PG it is not - - so in your example the kid is graduating HS in 2017 and then PG'ing so will enter college in the fall of 2018 and is playing summer ball as a 2018 -

unfortunately it is not new, been happening the past few years. Still a crock. If you are PG'ing you should be playing as tough of competition as you can on age or above; you are Pging for goodness sake, why to get into a better school to play, challenge yourself!!!

Garden City rated top again, Mahasset not even on this list

Here are the 10 “snobbiest” places in New [lacrosse], according to RoadSnacks:

Garden City
Huntington
Rockville Centre
Massapequa
Melville
White Plains
Syosset
New City
Saratoga Springs
Merrick

You would think a child posted this, but something tells me it is yet another "gem" from a Manhasset Daddy. You are truly embarrassing yourself and your community at this point.

Their rating criteria is a bit byzantine. A number of those towns I would never consider "snobby" while a few not on there certainly come to mind... Manhasset not on their due to the fact that there is a low income area and housing projects bringing down the Median while GC, generally speaking is more homogeneous. List does not take into account attitude, but extrapolates home value, income, private schools and arts venues into the criteria extrapolating those combination of things equate to snobbiness...ok then.

I would like to complain about posts like the one above that is well written, well thought out, accurate and dead on target, sort of a snobby post if you ask me.

Nope - I posted the original list from the patch because it seemed kinda funny in a real stupid kind of way and with the lacrosse towns mentioned BTW my town IS on the list and yours probably isn't

As the author of the "analysis" I find the comments all funny and good natured. I also am from a town embedded in the Huntington umbrella...

you mean Medford didn't make the list?

Cheating, cheater.

It is a funny list...and my little village made it! Signed: A Proud Snob!

LOL. Since they are so well 'versed' I bet they can also expunge on the 'prose' of the superior education. :-)
But then again it's all just knowing English.

Hi - I'm a Marylander and was wondering: Do people really live in Garden City? Isn't that just a mall and a lot of strip malls?

the mall isn't really Garden City, it's on the very edge of town. most of the commerce is on the borders

Garden City is a unique hamlet in Queens.

Nassau County..

A magical place where the beer flows like wine and women instinctively flock like the salmon of Capostrano.

You bit on that one.

Bitter too.. lol

LOL. Yes.

I could be mistaken here, but Garden City is actually an old, old, wooden ship, from the...civil war era

Nassau is the new Queens. Drive through GC, Franklin Sq, etc. Big difference compared to 20 years ago.

I was just saying that the other day.. Queens is like NYC, Nassau the new Queens and Suffolk the new Nassau.. agree with ya here.

Not North of 25A

Come on lacrosse please.

for all you laxers..
HS LI results....2014/15
Nassau- 3
Suffolk- 0
build some sidewalks ans sewers and we will talk

lol

Let's hope it stays that way.

I heard Al Sharpton has a kid who is 2025 material...looking at GC for place to play....

Better off at a club in Baltimore

Girls 631 SWEEP STATE CHAMPS!!!

I get it, I won't Swallow.

Not on the girls side.
Suffolk 3
Nassau 0

Guess you haven't been to the north shore

Now that's funny.

as a parent of a PG player I just had to response to this- At my son's school the PG players play against college teams they do not play against HS seniors-The PG class mostly have their college commits and the ones that dont are being watched closely by coaches-The varsity team will play HS seniors - so there is no playing down as you say-

I think you need to be made aware of kids that are claiming to PG and play on travel teams a year down. Because you state you are PGing doesn't give you the right to play a year down.

unfortunately, you don't need a right, there are no rules, there is no governing organization and you can pretty much do whatever you want and there is nothing anybody can do about it - nobody is breaking rules because there are no rules

Has anyone ever added sand to a shaft for weight? Or is there a better way to add weight?

I have added BBs and packed stick down then put silicone at bottom and let it dry. Put butt end on and it worked fine. A lot cheaper than buying a weighted stick.

no you are wrong that there are no rules; they are rules of Law.

Fraudulent Misrepresentation

a plaintiff can recover against a defendant on the grounds of fraudulent misrepresentation if (1) a representation was made; (2) that was false; (3) that when made, the representation was known to be false or made recklessly without knowledge of its truth; (4) that it was made with the intention that the plaintiff rely on it; (5) that the plaintiff did rely on it; and (6) that the plaintiff suffered damages as a result.

Many organizations sign contracts to play in tournaments.

Probably held up for years but will drag all parties involved in the mud for a bit. not worth it.

Ethics where have they gone?

Exactly. So many people with zero morals or ethics, who hide behind the weak defense that "there's no law against it." There's no specific law against lots of things but a civilized society relies on people to take into account how their actions impact others. There is a moral code of conduct that is completely lost on these narcissistic weaklings.

Great. A lawyer! So you are going back 8 years and will prove the kid had no intention of prep school? Demand your tee shirt back?

No PG players play down they play college teams I don't know what you all are talking about when you think they play high school seniors- the varsity team in school just play seniors and our JV plays the 9,10,11 grade teams so no one is getting an advantage - PG players are there for various reasons one being that the college that they are committed to wanted one more year of play at their prep school

I have an example: there is a kid in 10th grade says he is going to PG a year and now plays with 9th grade travel team. He has yet to PG yet takes advantage of saying he is PGing. I get it when you are in your PG year at the school you are paying to go to but when your still in 10th grade and taking a spot from a true 9th grader on a travel team that's BS.

This is an example of pure cheating. Why doesn't everybody decide to do a PG year and play down a year? Who's to say in 2 years that's still his plan . Loose regulation is making lacrosse a less respectable game for youth players.

That's exactly why lacrosse needs to be age based. To eliminate those trying to exploit the system. Shameful to those who do, and find a hole to get your kid to be noticed. Really just disgusting, and don't think everyone doesn't know and talk about your cheating ways.

Here's a narative for the holdback parents. An older boy beats up your younger son. You go to the parents and ask,why doesn't your boy pick on someone his own age? The parents respond, our son got his [lacrosse] kicked by kids his own age, so we told him to beat up younger boys, that way he feels better and most importantly, so do we. You're ok with that response right?

here's a narrative for the real world, you have a Sophomore in High School that is a good lacrosse player and good student, but to better his lot in life you decide to have him PG a year after HS to help him get recruited to play lacrosse in college, now to be on the same playing field with a lot of kids from south of Long Island who repeated 8th grade he decides to play summer lacrosse as a 9th grader so he will play with against kids that he is now competing with to be recruited and it works, he gets recruited to an outstanding lacrosse school and great academic university. But he is the real problem he will face.....he must now live with the ridicule of the faceless, nameless anonymous posters on BOTC I am sure he regrets his decision now that he is looked poorly upon by all the "Harrison Bergeron" nothing heads on this site

I see what you mean now - a 10th grader can not play down because he said he will PG after his senior year - PG means that you completed all 4 years of high school and will be PG ing ( post grad) at a prep school - when you are in your prep year the team plays a college schedule never against high schools - maybe what is happening is parents might leave a child back when they make a transition into a private or prep school in 9th or 10th grade having the student repeat the grade Vand then the player will play down which is an advantage to the team for sure but it's not a PG player - he can then PG somewhere too and get another year of growth in the sport-

I guess you don't see the irony in complaining about anonymous posters as you post anonymously??? Pulling out a Vonnegut reference at the end to demonstrate your deep intellect. So transparent. Must be another benefit of the PG!

Who does Harrison Bergeron play for?

Okay ready for power rankings again. Not sure if that is good or bad. What's everyone's thoughts. I just hate the flip flopping of how the leagues are done. Wished they would also play the Catholics into the mix to,see who is really the top teams.

Love Ct and NJ tournament of all schools concept.

They do! Don't you remember last year chaminade was beat by Ward Melville and Pequa

Harrison Bergeron definitely plays for one of them there snobby towns- you can tell from the name.

What's the point, I just don't get it. If a large nba or major league contract was waiting for you at the end, pg, holdback do whatever you have to do. Millions of dollers to play a sport. I'd holdback my son. I could careless what anyone says, especially on this site. However what's at the end of this rainbow, maybe 8, 10 grand off tuition. Coaching a club team or giving private lessons for a few grand a year. Playing in MLL for 1000 a game. I just don't see why people holdback academically sound kids, to be a year older in lacrosse. I just don't get it. If my parents told me in 7 th grade, we are holding you back, so you can be better in lacrosse, all my friends move up a grade, except me. I would have been devastated.

It is not about $$$ per se. It is about taking a kid who might otherwise go to some mid level, very ordinary school and using lax to get him into Cornell, Duke or some other school that wouldn't even look at them without a sports hook. That is the ever more elusive dream that people are chasing...I think most people are not in it expecting to get a free ride. They want their kid in a better school.

And then the kid is not able to handle the academics of a cornell or duke and bounces around from one school to the next (flunking out each time, but getting to play a year of lax for a coach who wants to win at any cost)and after his four years of eligibility are up he has nothing to show for it but some great lax memories and a degree in hard knocks

Unfortunately pre-first/holding back/PG works for many children, not all .And now that the youth leagues and club teams permit all these kids to play down... Playing down will continue and get worst in my opinion at youth level. USL is a joke and does nothing about it except moan every once in a while.

I totally agree, however, you do know where USL offices are right? You also know which D1 team is one of the biggest beneficiaries of holdbacks and double holdbacks right? Do we really need to discuss this disgrace any further? Please. Never going to change until this sport gets a real governing body that isn't in bed with the top D1 programs. I really wonder what the general public, non-lacrosse type people would think about this whole mess? A sport where kids are forced to play a sport with heavy contact against kids 2 years older than them. Amazing.

AAU basketball has it right...government issued photo ID is now the standard for age confirmation and identification...doing it for years already in youth football because THEY care who gets hurt and who gets an unfair advantage...start it at the young levels NOW and clean up this sport for tomorrow , already to late for our kids to have a level playing field...all it would take is Express and 91 to say enough and others would follow, and they wouldn't lose a dime...just some players and MAYBE a win or two...we are already at a disadvantage against out of state teams because of school age, but no reason to ignore this issue... reach out to crabs, leading edge, etc and stop the nonsense...College coaches need to hold the line at their prospect camps, heard some are doing just that, but they all need too get going...Long Island elite could lead they way...

A non-lacrosse player, non-minority, male student with a 95 GPA and a 27 on the ACT's can not think about any Ivy league school but an exceptional lacrosse player with those numbers might be able to get into an Ivy and if that kid needs to repeat a year either in 8th or PG to get the Ivy coach interested in him then to me it seems to be a no brainer. much harder getting into an Ivy then staying in an Ivy. It is not that these kids are not qualified to go to these schools it is that there are so many qualified kids that it is really hard to get it and if Lacrosse is your hook, use it same as if it was crew, acting, debate or oboe

Craziness. My 7th grader turned 12 two weeks ago. His friend, also a 7th grader, turns 13 tomorrow. My son is barely 5 feet. His friend is 5'8". That's the difference between pre-pubescent and post pubescent. In this age range size dominates athleticism and good stick skills. Yes, it will equalize as the boys head into 9th grade but for this period of time it is a killer for those on the young side and puts them at distinct disadvantage. And the fact is that it's much harder to lose a spot on a good team than it is to win that spot.

Well said. This same reasoning goes for most good schools today. The landscape is way more competitive than in years past.
These kids still need the academics however and no amount of lacrosse talent can overcome poor grades. Lax is a door opener for a kid with good grades.

Yup. I have dealt with this with my son for years. Getting overlooked because he is immature and young (and a little less coordinated). He made his middle school team but doesn't see the time others do. He is in 8th grade, and still 12, there are at least a half dozen A players in the 2021 year (a year below) that are older than him. He has football starting in a couple of weeks and there are kids 14 that he is trying to compete with. The sad fact is all too many programs(both town and club) wash kids out by 9th grade and they are done. Then by junior / senior year the team has a handful of 5foot 9 kids playing who were anointed in 7th grade and a half dozen 6 ' 1" -6' 2" kids doing nothing in the spring. My kid's "problem" was that academically he was ready to go to kindergarten so we put him in school rather than have him "pg" an extra year when he was 4! (If only I had been aligned with one of the top travel programs who could have given me this recruiting advice back then)

91 just had tryouts in Maryland. They are grade based teams... Count them out .. I dont see anything stopping this disgusting aspects of lacrosse at the youth level...And for sure the USL isnt going too

"My kid's "problem" was that academically he was ready to go to kindergarten so we put him in school rather than have him "pg" an extra year when he was 4! (If only I had been aligned with one of the top travel programs who could have given me this recruiting advice back then)"

Is this sarcasm? Or would you really hold your academically ready for kindergarten kid back a year on the advice of a travel coach/director?

I go to my kid's travel coach for financial AND marital advice too.

sarcasm

Ha!! It's a sad state of affairs in youth sports when I even had to ask

No, it's a sad state of affairs where people actually do this.

This forum is obviously 99% anonymous. Even with a handle, it is still anonymous, but having a handle adds credibility to the poster. I am not so much "complaining" about the anonymity as I am that the moderator(s) can see who is posting. Sometimes they chip in their 2 cents when someone is trashing one of their sponsors and points out "you are from jersey what do you care" or "you are the same person trashing said team, so you obviously have an issue". Make this website more transparent to everyone or just keep your moderator info to yourself. It is obvious there are a ton of shills on here promoting one team or trash talking a competitor's team. When everything is anonymous and moderators chip in at times, it makes me question the legitimacy of this site.

Thank you for your totally unbiased opinion. I will feel free to offer mine as well. If you are not happy, feel free to stay away. You won't hurt our feelings.

I will say whatever the [lacrosse] I want, just as you do..

When you have a handle there is an email associated with that handle and the moderators can contact you directly. So if your going to go and bash someone its easy to just contact you. What do you want from us. We try and keep dialogue open and eliminate the mean spirited stuff. We also have done our best to monitor when there are people who ask questions and answer them. It happens all the time. We also have tried to eliminate the deceptive practices that some clubs have attempted and by doing so we have protected the consumer. There used to be a moderator who loved the drama and they are no longer affiliated with the site. They would allow for some real crappy stuff to be said. We wont tolerate it.

ATTENTION Vicarious: You are shouting orders to us like you own the place. You don't own this site, but I do, and nothing here is going to change. Deal with it or not. I trust that this post and the two above have clearly communicated to your anonymity exactly what our position is.

Since you are from Northport, I can't help but wonder how close you may be to one of the nastiest coaches and clubs on the Island, the Yellow Jackets and their Mistress, errr I mean coach, Carol Rose?

that included in the travel fee? or ala carte?

you start a complaint thread and then take it personally when people make complaints - my advice, don't start a "kiss my sister" thread

I'm guessing the intent of this thread is not to serve as a forum to complain to the site owners about their site. Suggesting changes is one thing, being a jerk about it is another.

Thank you and you are so correct. We seem to have an over abundance of those in here.

Everyone is thinking division 1.Ivy league, top notch schools, etc. Anyone think Division III NESCAC schools? Williams,Amherst. Tufts,etc? It is a very competitive league and educationally as good and difficult to gain entrance as the Ivy's. Your kid gets a top notch education and the contacts to boot. They don't have to live eat sleep lacrosse. Just have fun!

Huge NESCAC fan. Great post. Great academic and athletic opportunities.

Or Patriot league

I agree, great point. Its the parents , not the kids. Dad wants to brag to his friends, that his kid has a scholarship to duke or virginia. Meanwhile the scholarship pays 1/8 of his tuition, but he leaves that part out to his friends. Some of the D3 schools are incredible. Academically sound and kid gets to play and have a great college expierience.

Yeah but parents need to be a little on the wealthy side to attend those schools. No money in div 3.

I think people need to realize that the money being offered in D1 is also very little. 12.6 Scholarships per team. Most teams have at least 30-35 players some as many as 40-45. Good grades can get you more money than lacrosse. Combine a great lacrosse player with great grades and that's a nice combo and something coaches love because they can give you less of their money and get you more from the school.

how about a technical school, Stevens MIT or even RPI. all good schools and guess what you will get when you graduate.. a J O B.

Uh oh...you better run and hide. You make entirely too much sense to be on this forum. All the mouth breathers with D1 full ride 9 year old sons will attack you now.

how bout it's football season and everyone just give it a rest till lacrosse starts.

HOW DARE YOU, my 5 month old daughter is already getting looked at by Duke. I'd sent in her birth video and the video of her first baby food meal... they ARE interested and mentioned 'not worrying about money'

NCAA recruiting rules differ by division. Division I and Division II schools are able to offer athletic scholarships. Division III schools can only award academic scholarships and need-based financial aid.

Division III coaches are permitted to contact athletes earlier than Division I and Division II coaches. After your junior year, a Division III coach is allowed to have an unlimited amount of contact with you and your parents away from his or her college campus. D-III coaches are also permitted to send printed materials and make calls any time before your junior year. However, you are only allowed one official visit beginning your senior year. You may take as many unofficial visits as you want.

Remember that unofficial visits are on you expense-wise. Coaches may not provide you with any form of monetary benefit. They can't even buy you lunch or a snack in the cafeteria

Did you really come on a lacrosse forum to complain about people talking about lacrosse, you must really get pissed when retail stores have Chritmas decorations up before Thankgiving. oh and by the way, it is always lacrosse season, summer club teams tryouts have already concluded and club team practices are all ready started, HS parents are already getting their checkbooks out and Farmingdale fall league starts next weekend. J E T S suck suck suck

Better start some private lessons asap...Ty has here down on the recruiting chart! Sorry at this time she is DIII material. Might want to also consider not letting her start 1st grade until she is 15... She put her right up there with the rest of holdbacks and get a shout out from Ty.

The nerve of some people or organizations. I just saw a post where some think the parents are selfish or unscrupulous. Why because they want to do the best for their children.


Some teams and even different organization, regardless of age group since this issue crosses over many age groups. Really need to look in the mirror.

TAKE CARE OF WHO YOU HAVE SO THEY DO NOT NEED TO LOOK FOR ANTHOER OPTION. IF YOU DONT DO THAT, DONT [lacrosse] AND TALK ABOUT THEM WHEN THEY LEAVE AND GO SOMEWHERE ELSE. ITS LIKE BLAMING SOMEONE ELESE FOR SOMETHING YOU DID.

IF A GROUP OF KIDS LEAVE A TEAM, IT IS NOT BECAUSE 1 OR 2 KIDS/FAMILIES RECRUITED THEM. IT IS USUALLY BECAUSE THE WISEN UP; BEING LIED TO OR UNKEPT PROMISES OF THE DIRECTION OF TEAM BY THE COACH OR THE ORGANIZATION CATCHES UP TO YOU WHEN YOU DONT DELIVER.

A regular Bill Shakespeare here....

Seriously though, every comment on these boards has to be looked at through the proper glasses.... Parents are often speaking out of pride, but more hopefully for the protection/betterment of their kids; team trolls are often speaking on behalf of their coffers, but more hopefully out of care for the team's success.

Excellent post

Three Village Lacrosse is a joke and the board is nothing but a self serving group of men who wheel and deal to make it work for their own kids. What happened to one town one team gentlemen. Kids are leaving in droves and I don't blame them!

There are coaches of some 3 Villages teams that have no business being involved in youth sports. Punks teaching kids how to play like punks. I guess when adults achieve no success in their life, the success of the youth lacrosse team takes on transcendental significance. Coach, nothing wrong with wearing flouresent T-shirts to work!!

Maybe. Not the case here , but can understand why someone from outside may think that. What would you call a person who has no intention of going to a team , that spends two days at a tryout , speaking to one parent at a time trying to talk them into leaving? I have a few ideas. Everyone respects doing what is best for your kids. The behavior here unfortunately , was disgraceful and not in best interest Of the who wanted to play on this team because they were happy with the club , team and coach. Their was no regard for them. Then the same parents approach what's left of team when options are limited. Wasn't a realistic financial option for all the boys. Those unscrupulous , selfish parents didn't think about that!!

everything boils down to loyalty. there will always be the parents looking for the what's perceived as being bigger and better. yes look out for your kid but stop being disruptive and go on your merry way. it's beyond childish what some of these parents are doing.

Excellent academic schools in NESCAC as well as a few other DIII conferences. Would be happy for my son to attend any of them but please understand that there is still a significant time commitment to the lacrosse team at these institutions as well. they don't get to "Just have fun".

Yes there is a significant commitment but nothing like D1. They do hold fall practices and they do lift but it isn't at 6am before class with a strength coach. The kids work hard because they want to be better. In D1 you are owned by the program. There is no missing anything for any reason. It can be a job. Which is fine if you are an instant starter. Everyone there was a STAR in high school and most kids have to work their way onto the field.

I am not sure everyone is thinking D1 is the only avenue. I know plenty of players who are well aware of those New England schools. I believe the players and families of serious HS players understand they have more time to be considered for those. It goes in stages.

Not everyone but a large majority on here think that their boy is the next Rabil. While many may be great players,there are a lot of great players. I know some great HS players who scored 50-60 goals a year. When they got to D1 they were average first line middies after a year or two on the bench. One was strictly a defensive midfielder although a very good one. They went to great academic schools .Which it should be about.

Anyone else seeing a fall off in PAL enrollment numbers in Nassau? Seems like a few big programs and everyone else has given up. That's what happens when coaches don't pass the ball around at the younger ages.

Do you have a SPECIFIC gripe or just like spouting off in caps? Does it make you feel better about your poor behavior. If unhappy somewhere , move on and do what's best for your kid. Who would spend a full weekend trying to sabatosh a 6th grade lacrosse team and the poor kids left standing ?

In the current environment everyone thinks they are going to give an early verbal in 8th grade which means the process of squeezing kids out has really ramped up. In the old days everyone made it through the PAL years with no issues now kids are getting pushed out in 3rd or 4th grade by coaches not forcing kids to share the ball around.

This may be actually be my favorite post. The above guy is griping about someone else's griping not being specific enough for him.
I was going to gripe about guys griping about other peoples gripes until I realized that if I did that I would actually be griping about gripes so I stopped myself. WHEW!!!!

just think about how many times you hear a coach yell during a game "go to goal so & so"..that tells you all you need to know about PAL coaches...usually its the coaches son/daughter doing the yelling too....other kids figure why bother..

I have a gripe with the parents that are constantly criticizing PAL coaches. It's a thankless job. Nobody steps up to volunteer but then everyone comes out of the woodwork and bashes the coach. I'm sorry but if the coach's kid is one of the better players, then he/she is going to play more. Maybe learn how to play the game and coach it yourselves next time around

I agree. It bothers me how the term "daddy coach" is used disparagingly around here. Step up and coach, show the "daddy coaches" how it's done. You're already "coaching" from the sidelines anyway. Seems like the sidelines are filled with armchair coaches who are good at criticizing but incapable of taking action.

Same guy who bashed 2024 for leaving because they refused to be strong armed now put his son on a club team. 2 sets of rules.

Yeah- Frankly, even if their kid plays more than they should, they are spending their free time for a thankless/blame-laden job. If their kid gets some extra minutes of field time- fine with me.

The fact that PAL teams are dwindling isn't a good thing at all by the way regardless of the reasons for it.

good points as many club teams have coaches with kids on the team. 10 years ago a town travel team might have been an extra $100. Now it's $1500-$3000 or more for essentially the same thing

You mean to say, you ALMOST stopped yourself!!


And yes, if you take the time to complain, complain about something specific. That's what I just did!

It is clearly not the same thing. Expensive yes, essentially the same as PAL - no way Jose.

Suffolk County PAL Football Mission Statement program is to provide a safe and caring environment for as many children as possible to play organized tackle football. The PAL Football Board of Directors will ensure that all children are protected and treated with respect and dignity by their respective organizations and coaches.

I'm sure lacrosse can't be any different
Any coach discouraging a 3rd grade kid
Should be removed from the organization immediatly

Spot on. I have tons of respect for daddy coaches volunteering to coach lacrosse but don't lecture us on stepping up. If you are coaching, do the right thing and teach the kids the right way to play a Team Sport - pass the ball around. For those "go to goal guys" you are doing 95% of your team a disservice.

I was the guy who made the comment about hearing how the term daddy coach is used around here. I'm not saying people never have a basis for complaint. At the same time though some parents just nitpick at everything.

So you sound like you get it, the daddies that don't are winning 15-4 with only 3 kids scoring all game and usually one of the scorers is their kid. Unfortunately modern day lacrosse craves stat padding and it is ruining the game at a very young age.

People who coach like that are D-bags, dad coach or not. Especially at the younger ages where there isn't as much at stake as the older kids

Three Village a joke? Their 2023 & 2022 teams were some of the best and well coached in the age group last season, club or PAL. Regarding the board, I believe they are truly trying to do what's best for Ward Melville. I would agree that the board member you are referring was a self serving a.., but the board did the right thing and asked him to step down and when he asked if his son could play for both 3v and the club team the board said no....upholding their decision to not let the "A" team kids play out. From what I have seen, BK is one of the best guys around the game and most of the board members are just trying to do what's best for WM.

With that said, its a shame to see what 3v parents are doing to the league. The disgruntled 2024 parents/ coaches are as self serving as the 3v board member. These same guys could have helped developed kids within the 3v program that would have ultimately feed WMHS, but instead choose to be self serving and created High Voltage, which is a " hybrid" team of the better 3v kids and a few kids from other towns so their own kids could play out and get a scholarship out of third grade!?!?

Who's the joke?

Three Village has it right for the most part....Most towns wish they had what we have...stop being a hater and get a clue.

3v was a great program and like many other programs in any sport, they are losing out to club sports. And there are great board members and coaches, and some that are truly pursuing a personal agenda. 3v gets a lot of heat because they took a hard position on club ball by drawing a line in the sand and saying "if you play for us, you don't play club, we are 3v and we do it better than any club team out there, you don't need to go anywhere". As the father of a 3v player who was given the opportunity to play with one of the top club programs (we chose to go), I can tell you that the top club programs prepare you child to play at the next level light years ahead of a town-based program. Its not just the level of opponents, its also the depth and everyday talent your kid will have to face in practice that makes the biggest difference. 3v is far from a joke, but their unwillingness to seek an amicable solution with the parents whose kids wanted to play high level travel ball (Im trying to be politically correct), was not right. There are so many talented kids in that program and so many great local tournaments in the Spring, that this could have been worked out and the boys that wanted to play club could have done so after the spring pal season and some local tourneys. But everybody got their backs up and said "good go, we don't need you". Well, if we had it to do over again, we would probably take a different approach I venture to guess. In our particular case the board talked parents into staying with promises that were not delivered upon. I don't think they intended to deceive, but people put their faith in them because they were the 3v board, and therefore had to know better than a few parents who felt we were slipping behind due to the top club programs. Pride, stubbornness and a lack of communication and willingness to understand the other guy's side of the issue are what caused the demise of my son's age group (no I wont say it). And all of the sniping, back stabbing and misrepresentation about what people actually said didn't help. So now you have a bunch of parents who pretend to like each other when they seek each other at school games -It should have never have come to this, its silly. Club ball is not for everyone, I know, but it works fine for some. the 3v board needs to get with the times (whether what is happening is good for the sport overall or not) and try to work through this 3v vs. club issue before its too late. Call me an eternal optimist, but there has to be an amicable solution to this - it really is not a very complex problem on the grand scheme of things- right? Go Patriots!

Last I checked, just because a kid plays for a club team doesn't mean that they aren't going to play for their high school.

The coaching staff of High Voltage and 2024 parents are all good people who have the best interests of their children at heart. High Voltage has not once come out and talked poorly of the Three Village program to it's parents or players. In fact, we urged our parents to go to their meeting and then make an informed decision on what would be a better fit for their child. Most, if not all, 2024 parents chose to come to High Voltage and that alone speaks volumes about the current state of the Three Village Lacrosse league.

High Voltage finished it's summer campaign by winning the LI Lax Clash 3rd Grade A Bracket and went undefeated at Greenport vs. ESM, Bayport, and Sachem. They also won the Blatant Indoor Winter League Championship for 3rd grade. The coaches must be doing something right.

The bottom line is this: if Three Village lacrosse was providing what our parents and children expected of a youth program, our kids would still be playing there. Their policy of not being allowed to play on a club team and a Three Village A Travel team has destroyed the league. Especially, when this rule is "selectively" enforced to allow current and past board members to do both but not the general membership. They also choose to MANDATE that in addition to your travel practice and weekly game that your child has to have ANOTHER IN-HOUSE practice AND IN-HOUSE GAME. 4 days of lacrosse.

As far as kids getting scholarships in 3rd grade...stop. It's all just cheap shots because our team has experienced the success that your league could not provide for our kids.

The landscape of the lacrosse world has changed. It's as simple as the concept of natural selection: Evolve with the times or die...

time will tell what happens, the next few years will be the litmus test on the in-house travel verses club travel will be.

3v for all my years didn't want any players to go out of town. Shame they had some of the best and I think that it drew a divide amongst them, lets see how they do while together under one roof in HS, SW didn't what kids to go outside either, but who cares, now they are on board with a club. SE not to sure, they had plenty of travel underclassmen on varsity LY. So I guess it worked

Will the new wave of strengthening the Schools program be with Clubs the HS coach is involved with. Allowing the players to have levels to play at is great (clubs have a b and even c for younger) why, because we all know there are different levels of play (A players and B/B+ players) that make a varsity program work, not all players are A (sorry AA) players. But All levels get better playing at or above their level... a component a club is better to deal with than district. I think this will be the next new wave. (More expensive but new)

... and if the parents are smart, they will do what is best for their child not a program or damn town director or brd...

Everyone is trying to hang onto players for dear life since every sport is year round. Our LAx PAL is crumbling because they wont play nice with baseball softball and soccer. We don't even field teams in every age group which is a travesty.

Some of the best 3V 2020 kids inclung a goalie left this year for Legacy

I call it genius...

People you do understand that some of the best teams in their age groups were put together by full recruitment and defection from other programs. Its a common occurrence. Just based on the success of the teams I am sure the players and parents are happy they left their original programs.

I never said the parents or coaches of high voltage were bad people or bad coaches, I just said they were self serving. As you emphasize in you first few sentences, "the best interest of their children".

I am not a board member, but have been a supporter of Three Village and Ward Melville for a long time. I have had sons come thru the program and two of them went on to play D1. Not that this makes me an expert, but you don't see value for WMHS in keeping the kids together?

I have never seen your team play, but it's a bit disturbing that you define your coaching ability by the wins you listed. Anybody that takes the better 3V kids and sprinkles in a few other good kids from other towns should win his fare share of games at that level. I am not implying that you have bad coaches, just stating an obvious point. My question would be are you developing any kids that are raw athletes that could be future studs for WMHS?

I do know a few of the individuals on the board and believe that the board has interests of helping WMHS be successful, not just their own kid. I am sure there are bad apples on the board and things have happened in the past that were not fair. You will see this in any youth organization, and especially as you run the gauntlet of club organizations. But their policy of not to play out, and recent enforcement of this policy on an actual board members son, who by the way may be the best goalie on LI in his age group and developed within the 3V program, says a lot.

And by the way.....this is not the first time this has happened. In the recent past, when the club teams were truly elite teams and not watered down cash checking machines, coach Cuozzo, then Hoppy to a lesser extent, got involved and kept the kids together.

Case in point, the '13 team had quite a few kids that could have played on some of the best club teams at that time, but they stuck together and it seemed to work out for all.

The landscape of lacrosse is changing, and fear, the me-me-me generation, and greed are killing the youth organizations that provide the opportunity for kids to develop and learn the game.

While you guys running High Voltage maybe well intentioned good guys. It does appear that you solely have the best interest of your kid at heart and not the greater 3V lacrosse community.

FYI - Some of the best times my boys had was playing in the in-house league. Tons of fun, no politics. it's a shame that parents today feel their kid is too good to play in that league.

Who are the bigger PAL towns, enrollment wise. How do they do it? Is there school district involvement?

The best boys and girls travel teams on LI can be coached by me and you why? because they have the best talent. These big clubs are PR machines and have poaching down to a science why? BECAUSE ITS GOOD FOR A VERY BIG BUSINESS!

Some of the best programs are worth millions and millionairs are usually ruthless, that's why they have what they have.

Finally someone gets it. The big clubs are a business. They are in business to make money. That is their first priority. They will tell you whatever they think you need to hear to get you to play for them so they can collect your money. If you think they are looking out for your best interest before their own you are delusional.

Great post.

all well and good but I would bet on a top club team for recruitment over any high school coach.

only if your kid is on THE top club team. Otherwise get him on a team with good coaching, and a talent level that fits him where he can thrive. Not one where he'll be a number and another tuition to fund the top team. If you're kid is not one of the elite they'll get lost in the big programs. Go with a smaller club or one that has one team in the age group with a good coach.

Let's not generalize with any high school coach....
GC, WM, Manhasset, SW, SE all coaches that have equal or better recruitment for their kids than the club programs

College coaches will listen to those guys over any club coach or director - they will actually lean on those guys more than they do the club guys during the recruiting process

Well,most of those kids got recruited from their clubs. Those coaches were blessed with talent and didn't hesitate to take the credit for it! I know first hand, being from one of those programs.

Yes, most of the top clubs are filled with those particular towns you just mentioned. How about the several hundred other towns? You won't get it from your high school coach. Trust me.

And who do you think the first call goes to after the college coach talks to the club team coach? I can guarantee its the high school coach. Recruiting is about more than just lacrosse ability. It also involves academics. No college coach wants to make a commitment to a kid that will not be able to handle the school academically and will be gone after one year. The club coach cannot vouch for what type of student he is, only the high school coach can give that information.

K

Very well said lots of 2019 kids jumping ship will be very disappointed down the road!

your first sentence proves my point. And transcripts speak for themselves. You need the club exposure. Its just the way it is. Not every kid will make it because the sport is flooded. Be realistic about your chances. It is a business first. Welcome to America. Not everyone gets a trophy in real life.

True, if you have a high school coach that is not involved. Luckily my sons played for a coach that is involved and helped every player that wanted to play in college to find a place to play.
EVERY PLAYER....not just the D1 players. Most are not D1 players. Most in fact will play D3 in college, many will play D2 and a small percentage will play D1. A good high school coach is intersted in helping all his players find a place where they will fit in a play. Most clubs are only interested in helping the stand-out players to pad their club resume and sucker more people into playing for them. They all brag about the 4 or 5 they have every year that commit to D1 schools but what about the other 40 or 50 kids that played on both their A and B teams? They are left on their own or they get help from their varsity coach.
Don't kid yourself. It's all about lining their pockets and using whoever they have to to keep the business going.

That's exactly what the problem is! Most high school coaches are political,and only help who they want to help. I heard there are some school districts that are being invested SE,SW, Manhasset, along with the AD's Regarding abuse of their power. How do they sleep at night? Why were they rehired? They are ruining the sport for these boys. These men are abusive! Over the years complaints have been put in and superintendents have left. Finally they are being investigated. Let's put the fun back in the game. If anyone gets the opportunity to watch a game take notes how the stats are padded for certain players.

Really?? What investigation?? What proof do you have??

Many, many HS coaches are outstanding and help kids with recruiting far more than clubs do.

Maybe we should investigate you. Your accusations are disgusting and possibly you should finally be revealed as the hypochondriac you are.

Take your meds and go watch a butterfly for a few hours. Relax.

You're kidding me right? 5th and 6th grade. Come back in a few years...the recruiting years... when your town team is getting spanked and overlooked because you drank too much of the 3v cool aid. Then you play patriot elite and attend recruiting tournaments that have less than a dozen coaches trying to watch games on 10 different fields. It is all a joke. Your best investment is with the top club teams if you can get on their top 2 teams. Take it from someone who has been through the system, not a hater, also believed until went through it.

such inspiring words of wisdom. There are some good high school coaches but they cant do it without club teams. The training pales in comparison.

There is no right answer to this. It's all about who you know and may or may not have connections with . There are kids who never played on club teams that are recognized because someone in their family knows somebody. High school coaches will make somebody get seen if they think that kid has promise for a college team. High school coaches and club teams can both be beneficial

3V one of the best teams town or club?! That's rich. Plus, whatever your thoughts are regarding the board, the coaching and development of the kids, etc, are all wrong. You are clearly a 3Villager. If you can get out of the woods and take a good look at the trees, you will find a completely different picture.

I would put 4 or five other towns in 2022 up against 3v, and maybe 3V wins a couple, but I guarantee the boys on the other teams carry themselves with greater class and dignity.

BTW, what club teams did these kids beat? Probably not any of the top echelon ...

I heard that 2024 High Voltage team is more like Power Outage.

This says it all right here, and I quote,
"Your best investment is with the top club teams IF YOU CAN GET ON THEIR TOP 2 TEAMS."
That's all the club teams care about, promoting their top teams to pad their stats to get more naive parents like you to shell out thousands of dollars to them.
The high school coach will help EVERYONE on their team find a place to play if they want to play, from the best D1 players to a kid that is not that good but loves the game and will play for a college club team just to keep playing.
The problem coming down the road is that their are so many club teams now that the talent on each team is getting watered down as they all poach from each other.
College coaches can't be everywhere and can't see everyone.
In the past when the clubs were truly for the elite players it was easy for coaches to watch a game and see 5-10 true blue chip D1 prospects on the field at the same time. That time is past already. Watch the best club teams play today and you may see one or two true D1 can't miss prospects playing each other.
The tide will turn and colleges will go back to recruiting through the high schools again.
And don't even get me started on early recruiting. How many boys that verbally commit in 8th, 9th or even 10th grade actually finish their college years at the school they initially commited to??????
At that age they are committing to a name not even knowing what they want to study in collge or if that school will be a good fit for them later on.

high coaches will help EVERYONE. if I had a nickel for every time I heard that one. the tides do change from where colleges recruit from. find the best fit. there is plenty of clubs to choose from. even if they are watered down you still need that exposure and training.

They will not go back to the high schools for anything. Wake up. Look at the numbers. Clubs are getting smarter, moving to different states, keeping track of the kids that have promise. Showing through the young years of playing what they thrive at and what they need work on. College coaches are able to call a club and get the stats on a solid amount of players all at one time. High school coaches come and go, I have seen it first hand. Your kid plays for a coach for 2 years and the coach leaves or retires, now a new coach steps in and knows nothing about what went on the years he wasn't there. Play for a good organized club that shows interest in your son. Is $ involved? Of course it is. What doesn't? As a parent you need to smarten up and realize your child's capabilities. If he's a legit player and has a shot, you keep him in the top competitive arena and hope he continues to thrive. If he's a B player than stick with town and don't waste your $. In the end except for a few, HS coaches are a joke and if you look closely they are the ones that are grabbing the $. Starting clinics and charging parents with the promise they will watch the progress and do what they can for their son. If you don't do it than the fear sets in that your son will be cut playing time because you weren't part of their "program". Once again wake up to the reality.

Really??????
The high school coaches have been doing a fine job of it without help from any club coaches up until about 10 years ago.
Hogh School and College lacrosse didn't just start in the last 10-15 years.
But now the clubs convinced people to pay them big bucks for the same thing the the high school coaches were doing as part of their job for a long, long time.

It's a sad state of affairs when individuals find that making anonymous digs is the best use of ones time. Regarding the self-serving accusations made against the coaches and parents of High Voltage, I have to say I am confused. If putting ones child before a school, town, or community is self serving then jot my name on the very top of that self serving list. If you have some unspoken commitment to a group of friends like the three musketeers and that works for you, more power to you. A parents loyalty should most certainly lie first and foremost with their child in my opinion. If you are putting your friends and community before the wellbeing of you own child, it is you that has it backwards. Don't get me wrong, I care a great deal about my community, just not more than my children. As for not watching a High Voltage game.... Perhaps you should before passing judgment. There are kids that have been playing since kindergarten and kids that just picked up a stick. There are boys that play on a club team and boys that do not. The coaches on that team are committed, available, and have the ability to get the most from the boys and yes, they win. I hate to break it to you but kids do like to win. I find that the people that most like to point out that it's not about Winning and losing but about developing players is trying to distract people from the fact that they didn't win a game all season. If you are developing players you should be able to win a game or two. The bottom line is that the coaches and parents of High Voltage decided to go a different direction. One that works best for them. At no point in time has anyone ever said anything good, bad or indifferent for that matter regarding Three Village. If I was a betting man, I would say that this whole back and forth was started by someone other than HV. I do however hope it stops for the sake of our community and more importantly our children. One day whether we like it or not our children are going to find their way onto this website. It is up to us what they read.

That could not be further from the truth.... It's all part of the sales pitch and it's clear they sold you. Let's think for a second, why do all of these clubs want top HS coaches in their program?? Because they have connections and a true understanding of the recruiting process.

You're a clown. Look at the #s. College Lacrosse recruiting has gone up 10 fold since the club teams have been in existence. 15 years ago 1 or 2 kids maybe got the nod to move to College ball, now 5-10 kids are getting that opportunity. Why do you think when you read an up and coming players bio it has a section that says Club Team? You are either a coach or an assistant with your opinion. Learn what's going on around you before making statements. A few HS coaches are good, but most are there for a paycheck and to give a select few opportunities. Oh and by the way check the last posters comments; HS coaches opening up their own clinics to rake in the $ they don't want club teams to get? These guys turned what was once a free sport to learn at the town level, now into their own personal money grab. Those guys are what's ruining the sport not club teams who you know going into it will cost money. Now High school coaches have Lacrosse companies with some BS initials and they bring their friends in to coach and everyone fills their piggy bank. Keep believing in them though, too funny.

so we agree you need the club exposure in this day and age.

you are talking in circles. could it be the reverse as well. YOU NEED THE CLUBS. PERIOD.

We have 20 committed players for the 2016 season. Spread your propaganda elsewhere. I think you have it wrong, when High Voltage plays YOUR team it will be LIGHTS OUT for you!

Let me tell you something Mean Gene, when I get in that ring on Saturday night...... ooooooooooooooooh look out boy 'cuz I'm gonna take these 22 inch pythons and show people what it's all about out. When I get in that squared circle, people are gonna pay Mean Gene.

This "LIGHTS OUT" stuff- very WWE, very vicarious living, very silly.

What exactly are they "committed" to? Relax Killer and say it slowly...4th grade lacrosse. Repeat as necessary.

The board of 3Village does what is best for them. Not so long ago the board allowed kids on the 2017 age group play on their team and a travel team for one year. Now why did they allow that you ask, because 4 of the board members had kids at that age group on the team and they wanted that team to stay intact for that year.

I know they have used a board members business to help evaluate teams at some age groups. Is that a conflict of interest ?

One of the biggest things 3Vlax prepares you for is the conflict of interest being that Patriot Elite is all about A Conflict Of Interest!!!

The idea that someone is spouting nonsense about killer 2024 players is a hoot... Some of the 2024's still need a spot-check as to whether or not they've wet the bed each morning. This isn't a knock against them, THEY ARE EIGHT YEARS OLD... as are some of their parents.

Not from 3v or 2024, but it does take a commitment from both players and parents and coaches to make any program beit town or travel work.

lose the commitment to the team or individual and you lost the team. Saw it happen a few times.

that said I have 3 children in HS and one MS, and have seen 3v for years somehow be there at the end.

Enough of 3V what about West Islip what of them and what's going on there

How about Syosset? How about Massapequa? What is going on with the Smithtowns? Oh wait its football season, have fun boys!

The 2016 Boys Youth Rules was announced by USL today.

I guess all the chatter about age vs grade really wasn't touched and its still a two year span U9-11-13-15, with the Aug 31 cut off date. Looks like the choice was to not modify the rules or mention a governing body that will monitor age appropriate play. No proverbial hammer came down. Someone please correct me, I'd like to be wrong.

- The hotspot towns will continue to kindergarten redshirt and deny.
- The wealthy private school families will continue to kindergarten redshirt and holdback in 8th grade and deny.
- The über wealthy private school families will continue to kindergarten redshirt, holdback in 8th grade, and PG a year and deny.
- The middle income public school families will have on age/grade players who are extremely talented kids because they are tough and play up. But they will get shafted for the college recruiting scene because the colleges will continue to rake in the money from the wealthy families for notoriety. For middle income families, Honoring the Game will become Resent the Game and a big ole flip of the bird.

As the Talking Heads once said, 'same as it ever was'.

Meanwhile, WSYL will gain ground with their even older age requirements and the double holdbacks win on ESPN, and USL won't know why it happened.

Something tells me the people running the industry are those who took advantage to begin with.

Keep growing it!

I can't stop laughing...

USL's focus is almost exclusively on growing the sport, contrary to the tripe that they publish. Anything, including the welfare of the children and the spirit of youth sports, that interferes with that objective, is summarily dismissed. They are painfully aware of the ongoing issue with grade based competition and the epidemic of kids and teams playing down. The have consistently chosen to remain silent on the subject. They are a useless organization.

Agree... To not stand up and take a stand in the playing down an age in YOUTH lacrosse world makes the USL a joke...

Really? So where did the college teams get their players before the club teams emerged? hmmmm...maybe from the high schools????
And you call me a clown???? LOL

Yes, more players are recruited and playing in college today but that is because there are more college lacrosse teams today. It is a growing sport but that has nothing to do with the club tams, they are simply taking advantage of the current popularity of lacrosse.

You forget to take your pills. Are you really that blinded by all the club bs. I have been around this game for over 40years and am proud to call some of the best players to ever play the game my friends. FYI the big club phenomenon has been around for I believe 12 years and that's Express. There are others that have been around longer but they didn't take it to the next level. Before all these youth clubs there was North Hempstead, Harveys and a few others that fielded teams where ex college players played and that's where the Saints Lizards and other LI Pro and Semi Pro teams evolved from. As for the college recruiting scene before the clubs there were always good players and they were always found. The clubs used to be for the elite players but when it became a business and all businesses are in it to make money you have theses clubs selling the BS that this team is an AA team and that team is an A team and so on down the line. This is all to get people who are chasing the dream to shell out more and more money for more training for more privates and everything else under the sun. College coaches will always find the best players for their teams regardless of where they play Town ball or Travel. A stud is a stud on any field. So please go sell your Kool-Aid somewhere else. It might work on the uneducated and newbies but it doesn't work here.

As for coaches doing extra to make their own high school teams better isn't that developing their team. The more a team plays together the better the more cohesive they are. Yes it is a job and if they don't do well they lose that job. So now we say they are taking advantage of the players and parents. Well if they don't do the extra then the parents complain they are not doing enough and get them fired.

a stud is a stud but he still needs the training. my son is 13 and there is a world of difference between his skill level and the skill level of his stud friends who just play town ball. every sport is knee deep in the travel scene now. it may have been different decades ago but this is the way it is right now. you are not sold by it because you've been there done that. there is so much more competition now. parents are just trying to give their child the best opportunities available to them.

Thank you. Another person that can see through the hype.

Training is training. Shooting wallball and other types of skill training done by the right person and applied in game situations is all it takes for some. There are natural athletes and then there are those made into athletes. Not saying one is better or worse than the other. One tends to burn out and it's usually the latter of the two. I understand getting exposed to the right people is important but it used to not be about the money but the real love of the game. Mentors used to pass on their knowledge now businessmen pass it on for the all mighty $. That's why there is no honor left on the game reclassifying, pg years, hold backs etc. All about winning not the tradition.

Fortunately or unfortunately the hype opens up doors that just playing town ball will not afford. Times have changed for better or worse.

But is the hype really necessary? My older boys graduated in 2010 and 2012 and both played in college, one for a D1 program and one for a D2 program and neither played club ball. My youngest is in high school now and not playing club ball either and I am sure he will find a good school and play lacrosse when he graduates.

he probably will especially with a legacy ahead of him. sounds like you are in a good district. some more than others need the club ball.

Your kids are the exception. The elite athletes, and most skilled players will always have opportunities to play, f they want to. However, most kids are B players and probably need the club teams to keep improving their game, and to get the most possible exposure, connections, etc.

Don't be so sure. Lacrosse recruiting has changed dramatically since your son's graduated. Yes I said dramatically over the past 4 years.

We will see. I am not really concerned with him playing for a "lacrosse powerhouse". More concerned with him getting into a good school of his choice that will ofer what he wants to study. He can play lacrosee anytime but his education is what is important. After college if he wants to continue to play for fun in a mens league no one is going to ask him what college he played for.

Thank you. This is a very polished and accurate read on the evolution and current state of lacrosse.

BTW, nothing can replace hours of wall ball, miles run, and sprints gutted out. Last time I checked, you don't need a coach for any of that.

Question. Who are all of these kids being held back in 7th-9th grade? There is no way they are in public school. Public schools would never let that happen. How many catholic schools or other private schools are there absorbing all of these holdbacks? Doesn't seem like these numbers add up.

[quote=Anonymous]Question. Who are all of these kids being held back in 7th-9th grade? There is no way they are in public school. Public schools would never let that happen. How many catholic schools or other private schools are there absorbing all of these holdbacks? Doesn't seem like these numbers add up. [/quote

Here on LI it is k-8 privates. They are happy to do it. Such as St. Pats, Laurel Hill, and plenty of others. Fortunately there are not a lot of parents that choose to holdback their kids here. For most it would not really matter anyway bease there is a reason they are not that good.. I respect more the kids who get recruited and then decide to pg. Most get full rides to 40k plus pg schools lIke Deerfield, Salisbury, etc. That makes a lot more sense!

Public schools "let it happen" more than you would think
Parents go to thru proper Chanel's and claim that little Johnny or Gina are not ready for next level of school

good article today in CNN money about Professiona lacrosse.

http://money.cnn.com/2015/09/28/sma...ob_homepage_money_pool&iid=obnetwork

OK, what did Joel Tinney do that constituted a "violation of NCAA rules"? Can it really be that bad that they can't give any details? Knowing the NCAA, he probably was paid $50 to work a camp over the summer. Without any details we are forced to assume the worst. Come on, man.

How about Danowski and his "all parents are crazy" rants. We should all " just let the kids play" stop putting so much pressure on them to constantly be training, etc.

And yet what is the good coach doing this week me but running money grab group clinic at the Hub this holiday weekend.

Can you say "hypocrite"?

All club teams have their negatives, but how about a club team that has kids fly in, team never practices, and the owner showcases those kids and those that pay his consulting fee? I say bogus.

Haha, yea, saw that! I believe he is actually in violation of US Lacrosse rules. Players and coaches of US Lacrosse teams are forbidden to advertise private clinics stating the are affiliated with the organization.

You better call up and rat him out.

I am the father of a 7th grader (2021). My kid was born in late 2001 and is turning 14 next week. He has kids on his town team that just turned 12. He is a young man playing with boys. He's average size for his age but with the onset of puberty you can just see how much more athletically developed he is. His age alone allows him to be more dominant without necessarily being the kid with the best stick. He was held back before kindergarten and again when he moved to a private school this year (for academic reasons). Objectively it's not really fair but he is a 2021 and that's where he has to play.

I am the father of a 7th grader (2021). My kid was born in late 2001 and is turning 14 next week. He has kids on his town team that just turned 12. He is a young man playing with boys. He's average size for his age but with the onset of puberty you can just see how much more athletically developed he is. His age alone allows him to be more dominant without necessarily being the kid with the best stick. He was held back before kindergarten and again when he moved to a private school this year (for academic reasons). Objectively it's not really fair but he is a 2021 and that's where he has to play. [/quote

So what's your complaint? I'm sure everyone reading this post with a 12 year old 2021 son now has something else to [lacrosse] about.

No 7th graders should be turning 14 next week. My 8th grader does not turn 14 till next summer. The only thing you are is a cheater!

Not sure if you are for real. But what you say is the exact reason why it is done. Average to slightly above average held back a year or two .Turn above average at youth level. And with the extra playing time and instruction the average player on age might just become a little above most on age kids when he gets to HS. Good strategy if you want an advantage most dont get.

And so are quite a few others out there. It's not new - it's been going on for years. Look at the Stanwicks.

Guess that makes it ok

The double holdback (start kindergarten late, than repeat a grade at some point later) is common among many wealthy families. Middle class and lower families have financial pressures making sure they send their kids to kindergarten on time, and can't afford the extra year of private school tuition later on. Forget about lax - being older gives them an edge academically and socially, which helps them get into the better schools, etc. Than once they graduate from a top college, this fact justifies the nepotism that gets them a plum job.

US Soccer just went to calendar year to match up with the world. It sure would be nice.............

One of the few things the soccer leagues do right is issuing validated player cards to avoid the cheating that runs rampant in lacrosse

I love the sport of LAX. But holding back your kid for 2yrs or playing down for a win. Then handing that kid a stick and allowing him to check is completely disgraceful.

And unfortunately it will probably take something tragic to happen by a kid big for his age and 2 years older to a kid small for age and 2 years younger before people would really do something about changing the age from graduation year to birth year and to require stricter player identification measures.

It very simple all travel teams need to have player passes just as they do for travel soccer
Why lacrosse doesn't have this policy ?
The passes have player pic - team - organization - date of birth
Simple yet effective

Right on

One of the few things?

I really feel strongly that tournament organizers should offer full service massage tables and services and manicure/pedicure booths. I mean come on, we are hanging around those fields all day long and could use a release and another activity. Think of the $$ these establishments would bring in!

Can we also have eyebrow threading? I am always late getting mine done.

hear, hear!. Awesome idea! Happy Endings and free Cup of Coffee too!....

Maybe a barber chair and hot towel shave
Lol

The rule at most private school leagues is that you can't be 19 to start the school year (8/31) and still be eligible. Normal kids typically enter their senior year at 17, so most of these kids can only be held back 1 year without violating the league rules.

It was cool that ESPN devoted so much time to Hampton's new D1 program, but why didn't they show the game? They already had the cameras and announcers in place. Weird.

Not weird, we've all seen the story is bigger than the game. Unfortunately, The best thing they did for Hampton was not show the game.

I'm new to this forum and I just don't understand USLacrosse not going to an age based system. I've seen soccer mentioned but even in baseball , where it is age based, talented kids are expected to play up. My son is an undersized 2020 Attack whose westchester club team added 5 reclassifieds this year. (3 of which are a foot taller and 60-70 pounds heavier and TWO years older).
Despite his passion for the game, he used to pride himself on the hits he'd take in front of the crease while creating a goal, but now quite frankly, he sheepishly admits he's not sure how much more he can take.( There are only so many Jordan Wolf motivational videos a father can show)
And I'm sorry, but where is the 'talent' of a 2 year older, 6ft 165 pound Middie taking the ball from one end to the other? And until US Lacrosse re-thinks it's grade based system, and parents are under the impression college coaches are recruiting at the 8th/9th grade then it will only get worse, until like you say something tragic happens at this 8th grade level.

US Lacrosse sets guidelines but does not have control over whether clubs, league & tournaments organize by grade or age. The do have a set of "best practices" that recommend age based guidelines with preference for single year (u11,u12,u13) if there's enough. You can criticize them for not have the strength or leadership to mandate age guidelines but they are on record as supporting age rather than grade for youth lacrosse. It's club operators that decided to change to grade and the tournaments adjusted. Tournaments make money if they attract a full field of teams. When there is demand for age based teams tournaments will adjust accordingly.

US Lacrosse has been and remains WEAK and will never ever mandate changes to club lacrosse. Soccer just mandated roster age changes starting next year and they have a ton more kids to deal with. US Lacrosse should set some sort of national guidelines on age and require legitimate player cards but we all know it will never ever happen and that is BS!

Does pretty much everyone still use US Lacrosse insurance? Is that no longer the case?

Agree. And so that begs the question what is the point of mandating a US Lacrosse membership and paying a fee to a virtually powerless organization?

It's just about filler the coffers. They are a useless, gutless governing body. Par for the course. The whole sport is just about recruitment to play in college. They are not for building the game for the masses

It will be interesting to see what happens when USL has their huge complex in MD completed and starts hosting true national championships every year. Grade based? Age based with an allowable window (summer bdays)?, hard Jan 1 or Sep 1 cutoffs?, or the stupid U13, U11, U9 crap they push now?

USL facility plans just have one field. Don't believe intent is to hold tournaments there but to be able to host national team tryouts and training

For now.... They have 12 acres to work with.

Anyone that runs tournaments will continue to do what the clubs want them to do because the clubs register the teams. The business model will never ever change. Club's run the sport.

How is it allowed that coaches and assistant coaches can accept money to train players on their own team? Isn't this a glaring conflict of interest? Especially when those players are getting preferential treatment?

BM did it on Honey Badgers.

Travel is understandable, but I'm referring to Varsity coaches/assistant coaches. AD's let this persist?

Not really. What people decide to do on their own time is nobody else's business. If you want your kid to be trained on the side with your coach just approach the coach and stop complaining about it and whining

Can't tell people what to do with their private time. The only thing an AD could do is not allow the coach to use school facilities. If you don't agree with it, it does not make it wrong or illegal.

Immoral, absolutely. Parents are essentially buying playing time.

Actually, I'm fairly certain that if the coach is receiving a paycheck from the district he's not allowed to charge to work with the kids that he's already being paid to work with.

It is a conflict of interest.

Sorry no law against it. Coach can do whatever he wants in his free time. Parents can pay whatever they want to whomever they want. So no laws being broken.

Conflict of interest, immoral, etc.. Those are opinions not laws. I have never heard of any law or any situation where a coach got in trouble for doing "private" lessons.

I don't agree with this practice and I think ethically it's a conflict of interest. But some might view this as paying your science teacher to come to your house to tutor you. I don't think there are any rules against that

I'm not talking about breaking the law; however, it's more than likely against district policy. Considering that teachers in that particular district are not allowed to charge students to tutor them (because they're already being paid to teach them), the same will hold true for coaches. Compound that with the fact that the players in question are underclassmen being brought up to play for his varsity team, I think there is a case to be made against it.

Really, you think that it is ok for a coach at a public HS to get paid directly by parents? Depending on how you want to look at it, it is either bribery or extortion.

If you do not see a problem with HS coaches from public schools operating for profit programs where they strongly encourage/coerce kids/parents to pay them to play for them you are not being honest.

I wonder how may paranoid varsity coaches read these posts and assume it is themselves being written about

Agreed. This was one of the contributing factors for a boys coach losing his job at a local district, though he was running a travel club. Now the girl's assistant coach is doing it. It seems fishy that parents can put upwards of $1000 in a coaches pocket and, in an unprecedented move, get brought up to the varsity team. It's disconcerting at the very least, grounds for dismissal at most.

....and then there are the travel program "extras" like over priced uniforms, the referrals to local gyms for team workouts, new helmets, winter practices the coach never deigns to attend himself but rather leaves to suck up daddy coaches and on and on it goes..:And let's not even get started on the fundraiser which gets held right before tryouts.

You guys are all nuts or I am. Ok I am, I know. If you want to win and have a serious team with a good experience you need to do the extras. You do it for your son and his friends who have become an extension of your family. You do it so they have the experience of their lives. So what if a coach gets a little extra scratch, do you think he should just volunteer his time. Now you may say everyone cant pay them. Sure, but we know who those are and it takes a village and it takes sacrifices. You are only as good as you surround yourself with.

I know I am partially nuts. I was willing as a parent to do what I could to help the team. But the administration coaches and parents talked a big game but when push came to shove no one really wanted to do anything extra.

So what happens the better kids leave, or the parents with the means leave. You complains that district make you do things extra, well yes if you want to be a serious team you should want to do the extra, if not I guess you are okay with mediocrity!

(I am not saying people don't take advantage of situations but it takes a village of parents coaches and administration working for a common goal. Everyone knowing their role because each does have a role to play)

Ok so teachers tutoring is an issue also. People get a life. Sometimes you just need to relax. It's mommy and daddys like the ones above that have made youth sports on Long Island horrible. Stop watch watching, everyone gets a trophy, crybabies. Wah wah wah. No wonder there are so many self entitled brats running around. You have created these little monsters.

First thing first I am being honest. I feel your being dishonest. In a court of law facts and laws are what prevail. No where is there a law that says what you are saying. It's your opinion. Show me where it written that it's against the law. You are the type of person that just assumes if it doesn't sit well with you it's against the law. I sit on a number of boards and steering committees and it's hysterical to have people come before them with complaints that laws are being broken and xyz needs to stop. Then when handed and presented with documentation and law books showing they are incorrect with their claim they start accusing there's collusion and the boards paid off etc. You sure you haven't been before one of my boards.

Nope board members overstepped their bounds in the case you are referring to. Some personal stuff played out in one of the most recent coach dismissals. Not the coach running a travel team. Uninformed and faceless claims on the internet.

And he wasn't flat out taking cash from parents and promising things like the girl's assistant. That's inexcusable.

Hearsay

Not hearsay at all. From the horses mouth. He was getting paid to train one player and when the father of the other player found out he basically forced him to train her too. And yes, they pay him.

So the parent forced the issue and forced the coach to train their kid? This is the coaches fault, how?

Yeah, what's the big deal? I would love it if a couple of the math teachers in our district got together and started a tutoring business. It would be even better if they marketed their business exclusively to the students who are in their classes. Better still if they were able to create the perception that not paying to take part in their program would be frowned upon by the teachers. Parents could line up to pay. Who cares if the parents are holding their nose as they write the checks? Most of the parents can afford it and they will view it as the cost of doing business. What a great business model. No need to compete for business just have the parents believe that paying for the service will be appreciated by the teachers.

And so we continue to pay.

I would happily pay to have the teachers my son has tutor him on the side. But only if they do not tutor all of them. Because Then the teacher could be holding back in the school classroom - that's would be wrong. What I want is the extra!!! The extra that will get my kid ahead.

Be it his teacher who knows him and knows where she will be directing her lessons or another tutor who knows him and the direction of the subject... I don't care, let me chose don't tell me the best option for my child is no long an option. Who do you think you are to tell me what to do with my kid!!!

Wow. You're not very bright. There is an obvious conflict of interest. In the teacher/tutor example, are the tutored kids being given preferential grades because the parents are paying the teacher? Are the kids who aren't paying to be tutored given worse grades/less class time attention, after school attention. Pay to play ... Pay to get a good grade etc. If you can't see the problem with it, you are dense.

That is precisely the issue. If the coach doesn't play these girls, the parents may feel like the training isn't working and stop. You know coach is counting on that training money and doesn't want the stream to end, especially when he'll have them for another 6 Varsity seasons. They will pay him. He will make sure they play to continue the flow of cash to his pocket.

wy does it all have to be inherently evil.

Why cant a teacher tutor a student to help them catch up or get ahead. Doesn't mean the test will be graded softer.

When it comes to a tutor you go with recommendations and qualifications. You go to those who your neighbors or friends have used before. Those who have helped dare I say on Standard tests before so you know what you are getting. You go to a proven teacher.

If that tutor just happens to be my childs teacher even better. If my kid gets more attention, I am good with that - like a bonus, are you that dense you wouldn't.

If you people are talking about the Sayville girls varsity coach, get a life. Kiss him on both cheeks and thank him for coaching your kid. He's an amazing coach. If he put someone ahead of your kid it's for a reason - they're better! Wish he was my daughters coach. Sayville even looks like it would be a nice place to live if you could get past all the fruity people.

Coach situation: Player A not getting much playing time, needs to work on a few things. Pays HS coach for private lessons - gets better / maybe doesn't get better - gets more playing time. Player B sees Player A pay for lessons and play more, now Player B pays for lessons, etc. Did the kids really get better or is the coach just making it appear that way to attract more business? He/she controls cause and effect.

Tutor situation: Student A struggling in class, needs some help. Pays HS teacher for private tutoring, grades improve (either legitimately in an objective subject or with help in a subjective one). Student B sees Student A's grades improve and now pays teacher for tutoring, etc. Did the students just need some one-on-one time or is the teacher holding back in class to attract more business? Again, teacher has all the control.

Whether either case is above board or not, there is clearly an opportunity for abuse and the perception of favoritism exists.

yes the opportunity exists and as a parent you should she if it is real progress or not.

Totally agree!!! There is no difference. The conflicts for a math teacher and a student are exactly the same for a coach and a player. If it's been addressed for the math teacher it should be addressed for the coach.

You are either a moron or you have no moral compass. If you can not see that there is a clear conflict of interest when a coach or a teacher attempts to coerce a student to use "pay for" their service. Perception is reality and in our district many of the players and parents feel that they must pay to play. I wonder where they got that idea? It is not about building a team or about the kids. It is about the money.

It has been said on this site before. Depending on which side you look at it from if is either bribery or extortion. In any event it is wrong and it should not be permitted. I guess if you are in a business where it is perfectly acceptable to bribe or extort you would see nothing wrong with it.

I am not the moron, and have a rosey moral compass; I know the difference when things are going south.

If whomever you choose to tutor or train your son help them progress it is a win. If it is a teacher or coach you have even better. If I see the hint of impropriety, rather decline I leave. If leaving has retribution I will deal with it.

If going to a coach or teacher provides benefits, if unwarranted I will step up.

I am coming form the side of no town coach I was ever involved with (school or otherwise offered to train for $$). I am an advocate of throwing the school coach some $$ if and when they do extras. If the opportunity exists like throw money in a bucket at a local fundraiser.

I do see how people can take advantage but you need to surround yourself with good people just like you. better yet you need to surround your sons with good people/families/kids, You are only as good as the people you surround yourself with!

On a recommendation from a friend, I reached out to the Sayville varsity coach to train my daughter. Met with him and he told me he simply didn't have the time to work with her. He spent the next two hours teaching me how to work with her. On an 85 degree June day in the midday sun. Two hours and then he wouldn't take a dime from me. Just wished us luck and to reach out to him if I had any questions.

I see him at tournaments, he checks in to see how she's doing. We don't live in Sayville. My daughter will never play for him. She may well one day play against him. Thats not somebody who's in it for the money. That's somebody who's a good person, loves kids and loves lacrosse. He's a class act.

That's a very touching, but completely irrelevant story. I don't think the town was ever stated, so I don't want to make assumptions that it was Sayville. The fact that he takes money from parents in the town, when he told others that he won't train girls from the town, and then moved them up to varsity way earlier than has ever been done before is the issue. And it leaves a bad taste in a lot of mouths. Many will be out to pull his ticket.

I think it is only a matter of time (in districts where there is a conflict of interest) before a parent or a group of parents bring a complaint to the Superintendent and or the Board of Education.

seems as though the girls did well with the extra coaching to me and deserved to move up. Who cares if it was unprecedented. What is irrelevant is the fact that he was paid to coach up players on his personal time. YOU and others are making it relevant because it better serves your agenda. Coaches are entitled to do whatever they want on their fee time. They can't win. I am sick of people trying to disgrace great coaches to serve some personal agenda. I am sure that if it were your child that got bumped up to varsity your would be singing a different tune. You should think before posting anonymous posts. Good people get hurt by slanderous accusations such as these. If you want to try to disgrace someone don't be a coward and sign your name. I bet we would find that your child's playing time or position is somehow threatened in some way.

yaaaaaaawwwwnnnn.....

Sayville public relations company is back. Thought they took a break after football season. Low division football team that is in paper every week. Now girls lax. Board member must have daughter on team.

I don't know if the conflicts are the same, but if you train a kid in a sport and he/she makes a team, it is looked upon as immoral because that usually means that a possibly deserving kid is getting dropped. If a teacher tutors a kid and he/she gets better grades, it doesn't effect the other kids in the class. Another kid isn't getting bumped from the Varsity Math class to JV.

Another tough guy telling people to sign their name . I noticed that you didn't identify yourself. Go away [lacrosse].

The conflict is worse. When your kid is wait listed to the school she wants to go to and the kid who got tutored by the teacher got in because she got a better grade in her math class the question will get asked.

Just heard on the news that a major part of the money raised for the Wounded Warrior Project, which is funded by certain lacrosse charity tournaments goes towards stays in 5 star hotels for administration , and not to the deserving!

I would like to hear more about this

If that happens, the only one to blame is yourself. If your kid didn't get a good enough grade, that's your fault. Maybe you should have gotten your own tutor. It isn't the fault of another parent who sought out help for their child. These are 2 totally different situations. A student does not get dropped from a class because another student is doing better or has a relationship with a teacher. Your opportunity is not denied. But it can happen in the world of lacrosse where there are limited spots and opportunities.

What is it that you do not understand?

If a teacher or a coach is running a for profit business and they coerce the kids (parents) that they teach or coach into paying for their service it is wrong.

Don't waste your time. That post was from one of the girls' parents. They paid to get better opportunities for their 7th grade kids. It worked. The assistant coach is the one who should be held accountable. And given recent history in that town, I'm sure he will be soon.

maybe you need to expand your media reading beyond this website if you want to know more about something like a potential problem with a charity

So what if you have two players who play for the same HS. Player 1 plays for a club outside of town, developes into a great player and gets recruited to play divI. Player 2 stays with the HS coach and plays for their in town club, developes into a good player but doesn't get recruited. Now the HS season rolls around and player 2 is playing over player 1. If both players had the same opportunities to get recruited, it's natural to conclude player 2 is playing because they stuck with/ paid the HS coach through the club. That scenario happens every year and is a conflict anyway you cut it.

CNN and Fox News both reporting the issue.

I really don't see a teacher "coercing" parents for tutoring services. I believe this is a reach. There are plenty of tutoring services out there and I'm sure that the teacher is not going to jeopardize their reputation by giving lower grades to a student that uses another service. With a child that needed tutoring services, each district has a list of qualified tutors for any subject that your child needs. And guess what, many of the districts teachers are on that list. It is not a conspiracy.

As far a the coaching argument goes, I agree.

I believe in a few things... Just because you think something to be so, doesn't mean it is. and if it looks, smells, and taste like something it generally is... but a rose with any other name will still smell as sweet. finding the balance between that is a the secret.

I was one of the biggest "Bloggers" about not everyone is inherently evil and you cant just ban something because you think impropriety can take place. You cant say something bad was done just because the opportunity existed. Go back to the Brady Bunch or icarly... dont judge a book by its cover and don't jump to a conclusions!!

I wished my town coaches offered more or did training. I wished my children's' teachers did tutor (the ones I liked). I would have paid top dollar for that, making sure they progressed over the entire grade not just their class... keeping a sharp eye out for any funny business.

I never said the other side, you know when you feel you got slighted. I did say as a parent you need to step up and do what is best for your son/daughter. I also believe (especially when it comes to our children's abilities) we look at things through rose colored glasses, many times we need to step back and take an honest look.

If the players are close in ability, then the club helped get your child noticed by colleges (good on you), but that does not make him/her any better than the other child. If close in ability, that other child will have the upper hand seeing the field in HS, the townHS coach knows the other player more. I have no problem with that. You choose Club which helped you for college, they choose the HS which is leading to more field time.

Now if the players are not close in ability it will been seen by all not just some. You will not have to say a thing but listen to the crowd when the player is in over your child. We have all seen players that we think are better than another get less time. Why, will anyone ever know. Maybe the coach just likes them better... maybe it is attitude maybe it is those intangibles you cant measure... or maybe the parent works in the school district and/or helped the youth program.

No one can tell you when to step up. If you have a good coach he will listen to a rational conversation not an emotional one. if you have a good team and captains you wont have to step up. If you don't have either that just sucks! Me, I say time will tell, give it at least a game or two to prove out. Preseason is not the time for that, it is how you finish!!


sorry you feel this way already especially since season hasn't even started yet.

It may have an impact in the class, my kids AP/Honors classes generally have a curve on the grades that are generally based on the highest scorer so if a kid gets extra tutoring ,scores real high, it may impact the other kids grades in the class possibly bumping them from honors to not.

Teachers are not allowed to charge $$ to tutor their own students. They can tutor students in other classes till the cows come home, just not there own. That's the rule, for obvious reasons.

My brother in law is an AD in Suffolk. He said the same thing applies to coaches. They can't charge players on their teams for training.

Sounds like this guy is choosing money over principles. He'll be gone by next season.

You miss the point completely.

Coaches running a for profit business and coercing players (parents) to pay to play for them is wrong.

its easier to place blame on someone than take ownership. Your mad that you didn't approach the coach or get your child extra training. So it's everybody else's fault. Get off your [lacrosse] and be proactive. Help you child become better. Don't attack the coach and parents that took the appropriate steps to improve their child's skills. That's on you buddy. It's blatantly obvious that your jealous. No other reason to attack someone's character. What's worse is your teaching your child that instead of working harder for something they want, it's easier to stomp your feet and scream bias. Grow up, put your big boy pants on and show your child that hard work pays off.

Bet those 7th DELETED! Thats GOT to hurt.

They can't do that. Thats why their kid is second best, it's because the parent is second best. The parent doesn't put forth extra effort so the kid doesn't know to do it either. And the circle of fail continues ...

You really are an idiot. Clearly, you're the parent that is buying playing time. Congrats.

If I did, which I haven't , I can assure you my check book wouldn't notice. My family isn't part of the circle of fail. We leave that all to you. Enjoy!

Obviously you're one of the moms. No man would ever reference a checkbook! Not even anonymously! lol!

Besides the club teams, is there any place on this site that lists people available for one on one instruction? Is it crazy to get training for a kid in 5th grade?

Go to a kid who plays HS ball and ask them or their parents if they can work with your kid.

I agree with that response. My biggest learning as a father of an 8th grader, is to keep it fun and don't burn him out. My son plays multiple sports and enjoys the variety. If you make it all work, he'll quit. Getting to play with a kid he looks up to will make it fun. Better yet, just get his friends together to throw it around. Good luck.

Is it me or do refs never call slashing any more? Defenders are always hitting hips, thighs and legs without a flag constantly!

It's the same with pushing. Unless the kid falls down its not a push.

Same with cross checks. Whatever happened to keeping your hands together when checking?

Refs are getting very sloppy and kids are getting hurt. Clean it up Refs.

Do your job. Be consistent. Protect the kids.



.!.

Get a grip mom! Did your son come home with a bruise? I'm sure if he knew you were on here crying he would be mortified! And if he's not... Might be time to check when baseball sign-ups are.

I agree that the majority of games are not called by the book, but the game as called usually is fine.

Perhaps the rules just need to be updated to reflect the game as it is called and the way people are happy with it.

I propose the below updates so everyone is on the same page:

Pushing is legal unless the player falls.

Checking anywhere on the body is fine. (Opens the market for more hip and leg pads)

Cross checking is fine except to head and neck.

Look, this game used to be played on wide open fields and plains and it was to the death. It was and is (despite our best efforts at civilizing it) still supposed to have a roughness to it. If you think it is too rough, have your son play baseball.

It's not too rough,but the rules should reflect the way the refs call it and I think every can agree that presently there are written rules and totally different enforced rules.

I have been reading these arguments about coaches running summer programs for their town players and can see both sides of the argument.
I have a question, and please just give me your opinions because I am very conflicted.
I have an opinion on this but want to hear what others think.
Which scenario is worse in your opinion:

1) The H.S. coach runs a summer program that he gets paid to coach and charges under $1000.00/player for 5 summer tournaments. He encourages his players to stay together and play tournaments together. He tells them they can also play for clubs if they like but he wants the town team to come first if there are conflicts.

2) The H.S. coach coaches a H.S. level team for one of the big clubs. He is being paid upwards of $10,000.00 to coach this team because the club believes having hm there will attract players. He encourages his H.S. players to try out for the club telling them there is no guarantee they will make his team or the "B" team on the club. The club charges $3000.00 for 5 summer tournaments.

Is one scenario a worse conflict of interest for the coach than another? I have had both scenarios with my first 3 boys and I know whch I chose for them and how it worked out for them. My 4th boy starts HS next year and we have a similar situation again and I am curious as to what other people who post about this think.

Thank you for your opinions.

Basketball has lots of rules that are never enforced also. Traveling and carrying the ball are standard practices.

In scenario 1 it is the kid that truly suffers. I know this because my son had to deal with it. The tournaments the HS team plays in are lower level, with little exposure to college coaches. The kid feels obligated to play with the school in tournaments that are useless for the recruiting process. 5 tourns, average of 5 games. That's 25 useless games. Now the kid does 3 prospect days and 3 showcases. That's another 18-20 games. Then another 25 games with the travel his team. With that said, your son has now played almost 70 games in this scenario. Not to mention practices with the school and travel. All this happens between June and July. Hopefully by August your son doesn't have some kind of over use injury like mine had... Morale of the story, when it comes to the recruiting process, you need to put the KID first and beg for forgiveness from everyone else.

Here is my complaint:
It's...
"you're stupid," not "your stupid"
"too many holdbacks," not "to many holdbacks"
"pound your chest," not "pound you're chest"
"their only in fourth grade!" not "there only in fourth grade"

Less blogging, more reading the New [lacrosse] Times, Washington Post or whatever...

Thanks Captain Grammar, but I think you mean "they're only in fourth grade". [lacrosse]

lmao, classic.

Public service announcement:

Their, There, or They're?
Their is a possessive pronoun. It always describes a noun.

Note the spelling of their. It comes from the word they, so the e comes before the i.


There is an adverb meaning "that location." It is sometimes used with the verb to be as an idiom. It is spelled like here which means "this location."

They're is a contraction of they are. Note the spelling: The a from are is replaced by an apostrophe.

Less posting incorrect corrections.........just sayin