So there are two sets of criteria used in tournaments for age, my opinion - they both stink.
1- Graduation Year, this seems like a good idea until one takes into account the kids held back a year - and in youth sports that does make a big difference.
2- The U system. Why USALax uses every other year is beyond me. Causes the same issue as Grad year. Plus why make the cut off August?

And what is actually done to enforce these age requirements anyway? Nothing of substance!
I know this topic is mentioned on nearly every tournament result forum page. I guess nobody at USALax pays attention or cares enough to listen - as long as we keep up the membership dues. Not playing is not an option - hurts the kids. Playing also can hurt the kids. The U system breaks the boys apart from their friends. My suggestion would be to go by original grad year & supply id cards. It's really not rocket science.

So the 91 teams take a beating at beachlax this past weekend and you want to change the rules?

I recognize that NY is December 1, but the September 1 date aligns with the cutoff for schools here in Va, and I am told that of most other states.
As for every year v. every other year age ranges, it has to do with numbers. Clubs in non-hotbed areas struggle to form teams at a single age, and would not be competitive.
Overall, the current system seems to be antiquated. As sport has grown, it would make sense to have clubs governed by a single authority, charged with rules, ages, insurance, etc. USLacrosse needs to step up and respond faster to the evolving issues

91 teams didn't take a beating. So I don't know where your getting that info.

This thread was not intended to discuss the merits or outcomes of 91 or any other club for that matter.

VaLaxDad makes a good point about age cut off outside of NY, which is why the U system is used in other sports - but two year groupings is not adequate. It wouldn't be that difficult for USLacrosse to come up with a standard that matches the majority of the population for youth lacrosse. Current system is not working and needs to be addressed.

US lacrosse needs to go to single year9u 10u 11u 12u13u 14u 15u. If you go grade only teams will stack their team with play back kids.

Most events are independently operated. US Lacrosse set guidelines that fit the events that they run. Not every team plays in their events, so identification cards issued from US Lax with D.O.B and current grade would be the best answer. It will give proof that can be used at any event. Should not be that hard, they could have an option to upload a picture during the registration process. When it comes in the mail you have the id card ready to go.

Yes, that would be a great start. USlacrosse also issues supplemental insurance for most (all?) events that I have been to--they could simply refuse to insure events that don't comply.

ID cards WITH PICTURE ID, verified by Birth Certificate. You own the card - if you play with XYZ team and do not have your card you do not play, if next weekend you play with ABC team don't have your card, you don't play - no ticky no shirty....Takes all of 2 minutes to check a team in (before each game) and make even more simple..go by US Hockey ages, 99's play with 99's, 98s play with 98's...it is pretty simple - BUT US Lacrosse will not step up...it is very sad for the governing body not to act at all...they MUST have pull with the insurance companies that insure these tourneys independent or otherwise...

In my experience the insurance just askes the organizer to require each player is/has a US lacrosse # and waivers are filled out, but as a player if you do not have them you are still able to run the event without being liable. The onus is on the teams to provide you not for you to demand to collect it. I wish all coaches knew that one. Because truly under law if their player causes an issue or is hurt the coach is the responsible party.

So all you daddy coaches beware.

Let's make it simple. Every player has an ID. Just like soccer does.

No more sneaking kids on teams or lying needed.

Totally agree!! US Lacrosse needs to make it happen.

AMEN TO THAT!!

not sure if they ( US Lacrosse) have the infrastructure to take on this monumental task. They should start offering the service at the convention fan fest, NCAA final 4 etc.

Give or take $13,000,000 a year in dues should be a heck of a place to start

Soccer does it. You have money for travel. You have money to implement id's

Is that seriously what they earn?

I am not sure BOC wants to have a topic dedicated to this topic. It will take 90% of the posts away from other topics. It really is ridiculous how every age group and tournament topic posts continually about supposed age violations.

Part of the problem is that there are too many groups following different age groups and different cutoffs. 12/1 vs 9/1. 2020 vs U13, etc. I have to believe most people are following the league rules, but when it comes to tournaments and inter-league contests, the differences are obvious in the performance levels and the complaining starts.

USL really should start certifying every league and tournament and in order to be certified, they must follow the single year USL birthday cutoffs:

Birthdate Age Bracket
9/1/1997 – 9/1/1998 U15
9/1/1998 - 9/1/1999 U14
9/1/1999 - 9/1/2000 U13
9/1/2000 - 9/1/2001 U12
9/1/2001 – 9/1/2002 U11
9/1/2002 - 9/1/2003 U10
9/1/2003 - 9/1/2004 U9


Steve Stenersen of USL posted this response on another site…..
“The problem with grade-based segmentation in youth sports is, of course, that it's not in the best interests of kids. The different rates of physical and cognitive development at each age varies widely so, in contact sport like boys' lacrosse, it's simply not safe to allow kids of such varying ages and development levels to compete against each other. Nor does it reinforce the fundamental principles of fair play and fun that are essential to player retention in youth sports. Allowing the club "system" and associated recruiting events to determine what's best for your child is not only a clear conflict of interest...it's a tremendous abdication of responsibility by the primary consumers of a child's lacrosse experience - parents. As most people should know by now, sport-specialization at an early age, year-round play, and the belief that playing more games is essential to player development are all myths. Sport specialization and year-round play burn kids out, drive them out of sport at too early an age, and lead to what has become an epidemic of overuse injuries in developing bodies. And, contrary to popular belief, playing more games doesn't make a player better; too often it simply reinforces bad habits because the quality of coaching offered by club teams is so inconsistent. It's incredibly ironic that peer pressure among parents plays such a significant role in the decisions they make on behalf of their kids...as does fear of retribution against their children from club programs and their coaches. That fear, alone, should trigger a serious concern. Sadly, parental ego also plays a role at times. But none of those are justifiable excuses for parents to allow and enable the youth lacrosse "industry" to make decisions based on its own interests...not those of the children they are paid to best serve. The single biggest factor in determining a child's success on the athletic field is genetics, not how much you play or pay. The overwhelming majority of kids who play club lacrosse and attend recruiting events won't get a college scholarship or admissions preference to play lacrosse in college. Most won't even play at the high school level. Club programs and tournaments are not inherently bad, but they need to be held accountable to what's best for your child. In a free market economy, it's up to the consumer - us parents - to make that happen. Or not.”

What are you talking about sneaking kids on teams? Who are you to say my son cant play in a tournament any weekend he is free from his Travel or town team.

I agree, an Id system is a good idea but not to limit the players, just protect them. Many players play for their town teams that travels and those same boys are involved with various travel organizations. Many times these same boys will play with friends they have made along the way at the spur of the moment.

Why dont you think this should be allowed, why cant players be able to do this? You say sneak a player on. These travel teams do not play in a league. Until they d,o any player can play on as many teams as he doesn't have a conflict with.

I agree. Kids should be allowed to change teams so long as they are not too old. However, I think that all tournaments should not allow kids to play on more then one team. That would stop the older kid from playing down or the "A" kid from helping out his program's "B" team.

For every team you play. You pay for membership. enough dropping varsity players down at tournaments to help jv. Enough bending the rules. Guess it's worth teaching kids to be corrupt because most careers are these days. Way to go strong island. When you can't win on your own merit. Cheat

By far this is not a Long Island only issue, by even stating that shows your ignorance. The issue at hand is can we parents band together and make a change to the systems. Are we willing to contact the clubs, the tournament organizers & the USLacrosse to address this problem.

Lax is getting to be big business. It's time the overseeing authorities makes a stand to correct this.

Wow I think that is drastic. For every team you play you pay. How about, I register for a child and from that the tournament/teams know who my son is.

Summer Sizzle put out a magazine (for lack of a better word) that shows all the rosters - you can check who you are playing had town and HS grad yr. All tournaments should do this so you can self police. But I am sure there is a cost.

http://www.uslacrosse.org/about-us-lacrosse/contact-us.aspx

Lets tell USLacrosse and see what happens. Seems like most people want to go single year and be given a vehicle (like an ID card) to validate.

My son's team is playing in the U-15 National Championship and I had to upload his birth certificate for age verification on the US Lacrosse site....so they have the technology......

I filled out the request for the review age guidelines. Everyone who thinks this should be reviewed, go fill it out. Perhaps we can actually enact some positive change. And maybe for transition purposes tournaments run ones like Aloha does. Age based and grade based until every goes to age.

But that's the only tournament I know that does that. It's good to know the technology is there but I have yet to see it in widespread use. Even two years ago when my daughter went to U15s, we just handed a copy of the birth cert to her coach.

This is the type of positive action I intended to come from this post - well done. Please, if you think this is an important issue - follow suit and post that you did it. Tell your friends that are concerned to do the same.

I just did it! You all should too!

Good stuff. At the very least I hope it will be reviewed and taken under advisement. Interestingly nothing negative on this thread. So that leads me to believe everyone wants this.

I heard people actually sign up for US LAX and use a fake birthdate so when they register for tournaments like TRi State check it appears kid is age eligible.

Need a better system or someone to get seriously hurt before change is made.

I did that! you don't need o provide any proof. I actually did it so my son could try out for an older team and I didn't want them to know he was younger, but I'm sure it works both ways.

With all the talk about teams adding older players, I would have thought this topic would be on fire with people posting that they notified USLacrosse and want them to address this. I guess people just like to complain and not do anything about it. Really how hard is it to send an email?

I think that tournament organizers should spot check teams against the rosters they registered their teams with. If a kid is on the field and not on the roster, team is asked to leave tournament immediately and forfeit their games. Might stop teams from stacking their roster after they find out who they are scheduled to play in tournaments.

I am a father of a boy that currently plays for a 2020 team. He's a very strong player but born later in the year (August). So next year my wife and I decided that we are going to hold him back and repeat 6th grade again, purely for athletic reasons. He's an excellent student also, but he will now dominate in the 6th grade for the 2015 season. It's within the current US Lacrosse age guidelines so anyone that doesn't like this move can suck it.

Maturity and scholastic's are reasons to have your son repeat. Athletics = you're a tool. Get your head out of your butt. You are not doing your son any service.

That is very sad. sacrificing academics for the sake of trying to get an advantage in a recreational sport. If he is a good student, how will the school allow you to make that decision? Very sad

And if he gets a scholarship as a result? Playing devils advocate, but if it is an ends to means.

[quote=Anonymous I am a father of a boy that currently plays for a 2020 team. He's a very strong player but born later in the year (August). So next year my wife and I decided that we are going to hold him back and repeat 6th grade again, purely for athletic reasons. He's an excellent student also, but he will now dominate in the 6th grade for the 2015 season. It's within the current US Lacrosse age guidelines so anyone that doesn't like this move can suck it. [/quote]

Yeah baby! Your "7th grader" is going to dominate those little 6th grade "suckers". Just don't let your son know that he "sucked" on age because it just might have the opposite effect that your gaming is hoping to achieve. Oh, and I hope he stays focused on his academics because that's the best avenue to achieving his dreams.

Best of luck. Your family needs it.

Scholarships are a pipe dream, yes they are out there, but for any given kid, the chances are very, very slim. If your kid is good enough to qualify, then I don't think a year either way is going to make a difference.

Have a friend who's son was recruited as a sophomore from a top club to a D1 school (winner of multiple national championships) - and he only got a partial scholarship.

Take all your club fees, private lesson and clinic fees, along with the money spent for gas, food, and hotels, for all of those tournaments over the 6-8 years that you do this, put that money in and index fund, there's your scholarship.

Father of the 2020 soon-to-be 2021 hold back is here again...to be clear, my son is an A-A+ student so no academic issues and is a solid A-A+ player. Since US Lacrosse allows it, we are simply holding him back a year to give him yet another advantage, it's legal/within the rules, so what's the problem. Last piece of information for you all - I make a ton of money, so don't need scholarship $$$, this is all about putting my son in the best position possible so he can be the best under US Lacrosse rules. You only live once people...

So I take it your child is in 5th-6th grade. With my children now playing in high school and still being a coach, just hope junior continues to grow and continues to be quick. I've seen many little superstars fade by the time their in high school.

I would do it if I could, can't afford it. My sons are both great players and will probably play in college, but as parents we want to put our kids in the best possible position. Only thing not fair is that it comes down to $$$

So holding him back, like being left back, like the special kids? Here's a news flash if you are good enough, everyone can play in college especially if you have tons of money. So hold him back like the special kids so he can be a stronger lacrosse player. You my friend are what is wrong with todays parents of an athletes. When he blows his knee out or decides he doesn't want to play in school then what. Its the kids life, not yours. WHAT A TOOL OF A PARENT! I look forward to him coaching my grandkids as a Express summer coach making a few pennies 15 years from now. (something tells me the original email is probably a joke, but with todays parents you never know.)

Lets try to get back to a productive thread. Whether or not the community believes in the tactics of a particular poster is not relevant. This attitude to look for loop holes within rules is what we are looking for USLacrosse, the Club Administrators and Tournament Organizers to address. Either embrace a single "U" age system or enforce the "original" graduation year of the players.

even if USL puts a system in place for ID's and even if they only sanction tourneys that are age based it will still not make a difference, there is nothing that says a tournament will have to be or want to be USL sanctioned event and nothing that will force them. Any decent recruiting tournament will always be grade based because that is what the college recruiters want to see 2017's v 2017's.

My son is a 2018 and was born in 2000 (correct birth year for grade) and plays on a competitive summer team, I would never join a team that was age based and only went to age based tournaments - I want him playing against 2018's regardless of age because that is who is competing against for a college roster spot.

When all is said and done nobody cares who wins a tournament and it is not about the competition it is about improving as a player and getting into a better scholastic college then you could have without lacrosse.

Work on an academic scholarship. More of them, so odds are better if the child is a A, A+ sturdent

Well said.

Once the kids are in high school, I age that the grade level works fine. You have kids fighting for jv and varsity spots in high school and the only time something is a little off is a kid there past his true senior year. However, for kids truely 8th grade or younger, the parents need to focus on creating a fair competitive environment by playing based on age. If a kid wants to play up - fine, let him challenge himself, but playing down though any loopholes or hold backs or other method is wrong and against the spirit of fair play. If your kid wants to dominate his age group, tell him to practice and hit the wall, don't have him play down.

So if my son was born on August 15, 2002 and is in 6th grade this year (2020), and one of his friends was born on August 8th of the same year but his parents started him late in school such that he plays with the 2021, do you see a problem with this scenario?

The issue isn't one or two kids but a team (or core of a team) made up of those kids.

The rule in NY by most accounts is Nov , US lacrosse has Sept. There will always be older and younger (Aug 31st vs Sept 1 of the same year) and there will always be those that are close to the cutoff (Aug 1st) that feel shortchanged or will bend the rules to benefit themselves (Sept 15th).

To me if your kid is born prior to Nov you should be in the grade with kids born the same year as you. But that is me. If you are held or left back you do play with your grade. If you feel better with you older kid beating up on younger kids so be it. Why wouldn't you play him up with his age until HS, then let him shine in HS when he is the oldest boy who played a tougher youth experience.

Work on an academic scholarship. More of them, so odds are better if the child is a A, A+ sturdent

Completely agree. Long term academics are infinitely more important than lax skills...

I was a Dec birthdate I was always the youngest to do everything, at times they tried to prevent me from "playing up" which was playing with my grade because of my birth month/age. Fortunately my folks were smart enough to say "those are the boys in his grade... Look at his skills look at his size... play my son with is friends in his grade... it is not fair to the boys a year younger..." I look at my folks; they had integrity.

I was fortunate to attend some competitive sports camps and in a particular camp competed against guys from Maslin Ohio. As a soph in HS, I was competing against boys the same age as Sr's in my school. It didn't bother me because i wanted to play Varisty. What I didn't realize till much later was it happened everywhere, they held back kids in 5/6 grade just to play Football. I thought it was something that just happened at that particular school or in that area. I thought it was funny.

I also played college sports, that is where I thought the age difference was amazing. I was at a distinct disadvantage. Playing football with boys from Texas and Penn puts you at a distinct disadvantage. They were always a year older than most and close to 2 years older from me. Playing with boys from NYC was also scary (They were legitimate Left backs). I was a 17year freshman competing against 19/20 year old freshman (fall not spring sport there was no turning or just turned you are what you are). A very scary scene. Going in I knew if I wanted to play Id have to beat out 20 year olds I just thought they'd be upper classmen, I didn't think I'd be competing against these older Texas boys every year the rest of my college career. (yes Soph and Jr year most freshman were older than me)

In that same time period, this was not happening in Lacrosse. The older boys in lacrosse were those that went to "Prep school" for a year. They went there to get college ready. I see the current climate of lacrosse changed to what I witnessed in the 80's of Football and the bigger money sports. If the colleges didn't do anything (between then and now) to change the rules I don't think it will stop instead I think it will just gain traction in lacrosse.

If your son us born within a month of the cutoff and is small for his age, the league should approve a waiver, especially if he was born premature. But let the league decide.

December 1 is the guideline in NYS to start school. If a child is born before that he should go to Kindergarten by NYS standards. If you want youth sports safe (like football, soccer, baseball, etc.) you play AGE. When the kid gets to HS then you can go to grad year because the colleges want to know when they graduate. It's easy, safety for youth and graduating year for HS

What is the cut off for Maryland. My daughter played a MD team this weekend and the girls on average were a 1/2 head taller than all of our girls.

Maryland's cutoff for school grades is 9/1. The same cutoff suggested by USL.

But you can't prove a grade. So when someone is held they are older but in the grade younger.

How about a system similar to youth football, soccer, and baseball. Every youth player has a registration card. Birthdate has been verified by presentation of a birth certificate. Play by age.

Needs to be age delimited (U) with ID cards. Pick a date that most can agree on and roll with it. Say Sep 30 - give the parents of kids with Oct and Nov birthdays the option of playing "Up" with the friends/schoolmates if in a school that goes till Dec 1. Playing up is not a problem, it playing down that people have an issue with and with grade based systems, there is too many variables to skirt the system.

I reached out to U.S. Lacrosse (www.uslacrosse.org) on the subject of single year age guidelines. I was pleasantly surprised by the timeliness of their responses and their readiness to engage on this topic. It was quite apparent that this is a subject that is very much on their radar. Below are the responses I received to my email questions (which I removed to keep this post somewhat concise). Most importantly, the last paragraph highlights how you can reach out to USL and voice your point of view. If this issue is really that important to you, then take a few minutes to have your opinion count.

From U.S. Lacrosse

I appreciate your email and the concern about age eligibility. The age vs. grade has been a big debate and huge issue of contention for many areas. US Lacrosse has been fervent in their support of an age based system. I can tell you personally, that US Lacrosse has not been silent on this topic.

US Lacrosse spends hundreds of thousands annually in health and safety research, and coached and officials education. Additionally, we review the rules we put forth each year and have pushed those rules and recommendations to groups, leagues and events. It is at events we see the largest age discrepancies, we unfortunately do not have any oversight of those events unless they are run by US Lacrosse.

While we set forth best practices annually, many tournament directors either choose to not adopt or enforce our recommendations. Furthermore, many of these directors turn their head once the check has cleared. This doesn’t provide the best experience for any individual whether it be a participant, coach, official or parent.

US lacrosse has been proactive in ensuring the best experience for everyone in the game. Our membership department is testing an age verification product this summer, with a larger deployment next summer. Our Gold Stick program, identifies leagues who use the best practices and rules of US Lacrosse. In the summer of 2015, we plan to have a Gold Stick Tournament sanctioning model in place, I suggest you attend these tournaments and events. Finally, work with your fellow parents and coaches to choose tournaments that offer USL certified officials and US Lacrosse Rules.

There is risk related to every sport, and to each time an individual steps onto a lacrosse field. US Lacrosse has advocated for no more than 24 months in age difference between youngest and oldest player for the fact that many developing areas cannot field a full team at one age. We will continue to evaluate our age grouping and engage individuals like yourself for their insight as we move forward.

To give you some history to this, the age groups came out of the high school structure, where the age difference can be anywhere from between one and five years. The move by the organization was to reduce it to less than twenty four months to create a safe, equitable, enjoyable, and level playing field.

Going forward this may be reduced to a year, but in 2014 the age guidelines will remain the same. As I’ve mentioned earlier, we review this every year. I encourage you to complete our rules survey and even submit a rule change, both of these can be found on the following webpage:
http://www.uslacrosse.org/rules/boys-rules.aspx
The deadline states May 20,014, but it can be considered for next year and can be used as a reference point in meetings going forward. Since the age guidelines are not a rule, just write “Age & Eligibility Guidelines” where it asks for rule name. Use the number 1 for page, section and article.

Glad to hear some truth on this matter.

Nice response from USLacrosse, I unfortunately did not receive anything from my inquiry. But I am happy to see their response none the less. I would hope the Gold Stick standards are publicized before try-out season!

This should put a rest to majority of complaints there are on this subject. It will be up to us as parents to "push" the travels clubs in choosing a Gold Stick tourney.

That is why team long island has gone to age vs grade because it doesn't allow the teams to cheat by using overage kids and the playing field is fair and less chance for injury. The problem is the other organizations are profit based and they care about the check and not the safety of the player

For grade based, We are seeing a problem with teams without red shirts outright lying about grade, just so they can keep the older kids on the team and level the playing field. They are younger age divisions and maybe the kids are planning on repeating 8th grade so the graduation year isn't really a lie.

Any inquires can be submitted to Boys Youth Rules <boysyouthrules@uslacrosse.org>

Received a similar response from US Lacrosse but they do have control if they want it. Several of the tournament providers known for not verifying ages and turning their backs on teams that are known offenders of loading teams with kids outside of even the two year span, are using US Lacrosse insurance and they should not be allowed to use the insurance if they are not willing to collect birth certificates and report cards similar to the structure used by AAU for basketball and other sports. This is not rocket science - other supervisory athletic organizations do it and we deserve better for our kids. $25-35 a year and they are not requiring even those tournaments requiring US Lacrosse membership #s for registration and who are using their blanket insurance (that we pay for) to institute guidelines. Gold Stick is a step in the right direction but it is voluntary. Kudos to the Dicks NDP tournies for stepping up to require birth certificates this year and keeping them on file for future years! Please send a message by encouraging your clubs to walk away from events that do not require proof of age.

We were at Sweetlaxin tourney this weekend, in our grade based bracket there were 2 teams that went undefeated. I inquired why there was not a play off between these 2 teams. The staff member told me that they found out that one of the undefeated teams had 11 6th graders playing on a 5th grade based team. They were removed from the playoff contention. USLacrosse based tournament, nuff said....

Shameful and the kids deserve so much more from US Lacrosse. Time for US Lacrosse to actually provide a service for the fees they are charging each player. Keep the magazine and actually institute requirements designed to protect kids from teams not following age and/or grade guidelines. And sanction the coaches and clubs that are found to be in violation - send a message before someone gets hurt.

At least something was done unlike the un sanctioned tournaments. How many more times do I have to see kids my size claiming to be in grade school. Why is it there is no age verification?

And Gongas tried to turn Suffolk PAL into age and got voted down by the other town reps. If you voted against and your a town PAL rep. Shame on you.

Team LI does not go age based! What a bogus selfs erring lie. I saw players on their U13 team who just finished up 8th grade. And lets not say they all have "magic birthdays" because I know these kids and know for a fact they do not.

What grade a child is in has little relation to what AGE he is. ALL of the boys on this team qualify for U13 by US Lacrosse rules. The boys who just finished 8th were all born in the 4th quarter of 2000. If you know the kids, as you say, then you are a deluded liar to claim anything else. Again AGE, not GRADE is what matters for a U based team.

When a child is held back, or repeats a grade, he does not become younger. You have magically changed his projected graduation date specifically to make him eligible to play with and against younger kids. You didn't make him younger

ok Mr know it all!You are not too swift are you? U-13= born 9/1/2000 or later! Kids who have bithdates in 2000 are SUPPOSED to be in 8th grade going into 9th. btw they played in the 2018 (rising 9th ) anyway because they are not allowed to play against the OLDER 7th graders (born before 9/1/2000). you are comical!

Yeah, nothing wrong with playing a kid who is age eligible who is in the higher grade. In fact, as that is the opposite of people holding back their kid for athletic reasons, perhaps it is laudable. Of course, if mature enough, he might want to play up to be with this friends, but that is their choice.

I want to vent for a moment. I was in a U11A division early this month in a big tournament under U.S. Lacrosse age rules. The tournament director let a U13B team play in our division, because they were missing half their kids and pulled up some U11 kids . I emailed the fact it was a U13 team to tournament director well in advance, but since I was not scheduled to play them, I did not make a bigger issue of it. It was frightening to watch the difference in size between some of those U13's and the U11's they played (7th grade D vs 4th grade A!), particularly as some of tournament refs still thought bodychecking is allowed at U11 as long as the player takes less than 3 steps (one cited that to me as a U.S. lacrosse rule). Anyway, to add ironic insult to (thank god no) injury and to stray a bit off topic, the director's U11 team beat my team pretty bad in pool play but we earned a rematch in the championship and got up on their (admittedly better) team in the first half and the tournament director came over to our sideline in the middle of the game and in front of the kids and accused our team of adding (presumably U13) new players or else how could we get up on his program's team? Huge distraction and other team went on 4-goal run before he calmed down and believed we had the same kids and we coaches were allowed to coach again. True story. Too bad he only cared about age rules when his team was losing. We are going to be pickier with our tournaments next year, for sure.

TOO MUCH MONEY INVOLVED FOR ANYONE TO CHANGE, SORRY

can you tell us what tournament this was, so everyone knows to steer clear

Wonder if it is the same tournament that let rising Freshman play rising 7th graders in the equivalent of the U13 B Division - the size differential was huge, kids got hurt and several teams asked for the roster to be reviewed - the size difference was that big. Men playing boys. It was the Hogan Summer EXposure tournament which required US Lacrosse ids to play so probably using their insurance yet the kids were not protected. We will stay clear of that promoters tournaments in the future.

It wasn't Hogan's and my impression having played in their tournaments twice is that they were one of the good guys. In fact, I was going to replace this big Southern tournament with Summer Exposure for our multiple travel teams. I think it is tremendously important for age rules to be respected. I mean it's kids we are talking about.

Boys between the ages of 8 and 15 are growing and gaining weight as fast as they ever will in their life.

On average, they grow 2.4" a year and gain 10 pounds a year. So in a two year per division system, the youngest average kid (e.g. born 8/31/2002) will be 20 pounds lighter and 4.8" shorter than the oldest average kid (e.g. born 9/1/2001).

If you have an old 1year holdback (reclass born 9/1/2000), that kid on average will be 30 pounds heavier and 7.3" taller than the youngest in that 2 year division. That is huge difference especially at the 8-9 year old range.

Of course every kid is different and these are just averages, but you can see why for the fairest and safest games, the leagues should really limit the age differences - especially from 8-15 years old.

As a parent who has witnessed larger kids breaking smaller kids bones on more than 1 occasion and also seen multiple concussions induced by the larger kids in the U9 and U11 ages brackets, I feel we should work towards enforcing a single year division system with age (not grade) cut offs until the kids are 15 or 16.

Age / Weight/ Height data:
https://edc2.healthtap.com/ht-stagi...ri20121213-30526-1i4c4nq.jpeg?1386569716

My team ages up to U13 on September 1 (2021s). 4-5 of my midfielders weigh 75-80 lbs, which is around 25% for an 11 1/2 years old per the above chart. Compare to a kid who is 12 1/2 years old and in the 75-90% range (not unusual for a travel team) and weighs 110-130 lbs.

Not complaining my team is small - that's who made the team - but one can see how much safer it will be for my kids to play other kids their age. Playing in 2021 divisions should provide that, barring a bunch of hold-backs and I've only heard of one 2021 team accused of that. But, at least in my case, I will seek tournaments that have a 2021/U12 division and avoid those tournaments who don't enforce their own age rules.

PS - Last Fall was a mess with the new U.S. Lacrosse age rules going into effect and some smaller tournaments seemingly being clueless. Saw a 4th grade team play a 6th grade team in one championship. Hopefully, that won't reoccur this year.

well said
player passes should be standard for all travel teams regardless of sport

Have to admit that my kid was one of the kids asked to fill a spot on an established travel team. Walking thru the tournament area with all the tents set up, half the kids know him and know he does not play for the uniform he has on. He looked at me and said he will never do this again. That was one of those moments where you realize your not as wise as you think and maybe the kid has a clue. I will take his advice, never again.

Fortunately this was only a single tournament for your son. I could not imagine holding back my 6th grader and having him walk through the halls for the rest of his academic career in front of kids who know he is "wearing a uniform for a team he doesn't play for."

At the Express tryout a goalie who was a 2018 last year is now a 2019. Give me a break.

I think most people would agree that there should be player ID's except for the win at all cost coaches and little Johnnys dad that likes watching his 6th grader dominate in a 4th grade league...

Yup...he is repeating 8th grade. He was on Terps two years ago, Wolverines last year. He was on his way to Chamminade, but probably was 3 on the 9th grade depth chart.

how many other hold backs does 2019 Express have. Or better yet how many boys born in 2000 or sooner Including Sept - Dec months?

I would like to see lacrosse adopt the same system that youth hockey uses. It is done by your birth year thats it plain and simple. When you play in other parts of the country it doesnt become an issue when the school cut off is. Until then its really just cheating .

what does a player or parent get when we pay for a US Lacrosse #? What is the benefit?

You get that garbage magazine.

I believe hockey teams have a binder that has each kid's Hockey ID and a team roster that can't change every tourney (or mid tourney). Makes sense as does the age thing. That said most hockey players go to juniors before HS so they enter HS at 20 or so, but it is expected. You are allowed to play up but not down. All in all it makes sense, is consistent and is fair. Right now lacrosse has gotten off the rails, there is at least one large national club with regional and national teams that plays musical players so they ensure wins. A few of the kids are playing at two age groups claiming they will take a PG year when they play down.

I am all for a player playing as much as he or she wants on as many teams as he/she is physically capable of . Some like to play on an off weekend, why not? So I can see a player playing on multiple teams. A child should not be restricted.

These are open tournaments not set leagues and a roster can and should be able to change.

Now did I understand you claim a player was playing down because they said they will eventually PG? Now I'v heard it all,

Eventually I intend to hold my child back..Not sure what grade , maybe do a PG...I want to play down a year, my child has a late birthday..Shouldn't my child get the benefit of all these kids that have been heldback, started late, etc...Why do these select players get an advantage the majority of players dont including mine....Club Youth lacrosse forward will always have this black cloud hanging over it due to the consequences of letting these select players play down..It will start a bigger movement to hold your child back like the epidemic going on in private schools in Maryland.

Some people are saying that kids are being held back multiple years. This is not the case (at least in Baltimore, Annapolis, and DC). The very oldest a kid can be as a senior in these private school leagues is 19.

MIAA (Baltimore/Annapolis) and IAC (DC/MD/VA) both say "A student who has attained his/her 19th birthday before August 31 of a given academic year is not eligible to participate."

This is happening. It is completely unfair when team A registers one set of players then stacks the NewEngland Team A (for example) with kids from multiple states to win games.

Yes, I personally know a few players playing 2 years, claiming they will PG at a later date.

So which government agency is policing this to ensure no kids are actually older? Come on really? I'm sure these win at all cost private schools are "self" policing, right?

They probably self police the way the SEC does. Find out about a violation on the opposing team, then disclose it the week before you play them to get that player out for the week while they are under investigation.

Quick question: If a LI player does a PG year, is it still cheating? Or does that only apply to the rest of the country? Isn't that taking away a legitimate opportunity from a deserving 2016?

"No. 6 senior @BrianWilletts, A, Smithtown East (N.Y.) has decommitted from Carolina. He just told me he will PG and play for @NDlacrosse."

lets get this started - my son is a 2018 and I verify his birthday is 3/19/2000 - who's next

On the age verification, the reason why some kids are a year to 2 yrs older is the school cut off date, New [lacrosse] is December and i believe the other states start in September. So if your in 9th grade in another state and your held back you can be two years older then that kid from long island in 9th grade. depending on where his/her birthday is.

Likely for ND the kid had to do a PG year to get his academics squared away because while he could make it grades wise in Carolina, he could not in ND. And at the College level, it (a PG year) is not an issue. He isn't going to play next year as a 2016, is he? No, this kid is doing it the right way!

Why are you assuming that a PG year will be good for his GPA? He might do well but he might also struggle at a boarding school. What happens to the ND opportunity if he struggles? There's no guarantee that his grades will improve.

AAU just implemented new age requirements to cut down on cheating and double hold backs
You will need picture ID with age on it to play in tournaments

AAU has about as much influence over youth lax as USA Lacrosse does - none !

My 2018 son is 8/1/2000. [cb]

Let's start with age verification on BOTC. These posts are getting ridiculous!

I just signed son up for a tournament where the registration system cross-referenced the birthdate with the U.S. Lacrosse database based on the number. (I had typed in 2/21 instead of 2/12 and it kicked me out until I fixed.) Pretty nifty. I doubt many parents used a fake birthdate when they signed up for U.S. Lacrosse in the first place and, regardless, let U.S. Lacrosse require proof of birth once and let tournaments rely on that.

I like the idea but seems meaningless without names, no?

2019 - 6/23/2001

One of the players on my sons 2019 team had his arm broken today by a giant player from Edge Lacrosse out of Canada in the 3D fl$ tournament in MD.

Parents on sideline were saying the kids are in 9th grade and some in 10th.

Talk about unsafe and unfair. My son is a decent size 13 year old and should NOT be playing against these beasts one and two years older and that's assuming none were held back!!!

Im sure it has written in a prior post
but all players should have players cards with -photo -jersey # and Date of birth

Too much money involved for the travel programs controlling the game. Never going to change. Every year its the same thing on both the boys and girls side. It absolute bullcrap. The largest youth sport in the country soccer does it with zero problems.

is that the team with that middie someone said was committed as a 2019.

Rediculous

Yes they do
make it club responsibility
no cards no games
the idea is simple

Lacrosse is living in the stone ages when it comes to this. How in this day and age do not they not play in age brackets vs "school years" is beyond me. In addition @ any given tourney outside of a once in a while USLacrosse registration (still dont require birth certificates to register) requirement, you can have upper class kids fill roster spots for teams. To sum it up, you can have a kid get "left back" 2x's and be 2 years older than the kids in his age group and be legitamely eligible.

Unfortunately it will take one good lawsuit or a fatality on the field for US lacrosse to make any changes. Let's hope it's the latter.

The 800 pound gorillas in the travel world don't want it so it wont happen. US lacrosse is just happy the travel teams keep forcing the kids to register for US lax

Spot on
all youth sports should and need to be done by date of birth
period end of story

just played this weekend at a girls tournament. We had 3 different age groups on the team and it appeared that some teams had kids playing down again

YES! Play up at your own peril but no playing down. But certain clubs love it! You will never see this at a 3D tourney.

In 8th grade it is hard enough when some of the boys have hit puberty and are 180 lb men and some boys are skinny 80 lb boys.

Not endorsing the holdback thing , but skinny at age kids usually aren't seen at elite level teams. That's just the way it is. Size does matter when it comes down to fielding a team of 20 kids. Face the reality if your kid is too small. Sorry but true.

Someone needs to tell that to some of the smaller Crush boys running cicles around our kids twice their size in the u15a bracket last weekend . Our team is from MD and they dominated us. Never underestimate a component based on size!

Edge are a bunch of thugs whose behavior is better suited to a hockey team. I wish tournament organizers in the US would tell them to stay home.

Well said

Hey that's my birthday, we must be twins!

They play tough because they are more exposed to box lacrosse. Nothing "thuggery" about that. If the refs don't call the fouls, then they must not be fouls. Personally, I like their toughness.
Stick skill wise they have finesse, on defense I will admit they lack composure. That doesn't mean they shouldn't get an invite.

Their a year older. Their website says 2019 Tryout, looking for 9th grade and exceptional 8th graders. They clearly define what reclassing means to them. Taking your PG year "now" and playing in your PG grad year...NOW! wth. Not making it up its on their site! Their not tough, their not, their a year older beating up on younger kids, real tough.

Just because the other team is big doesn't mean they have elite skills. So yes a smaller team can run circle around bigger kids. I did say elite teams in my post.

I see what you are saying. And I don't believe in stacking rosters. That's not right and it's dangerous.

US Lax....where are you?!! All it takes is some clear definitions. Put out requirements to tourney leaders, etc.

Picture ID with birth dates. Line the kids up before every game and then let them play.

The sport of Lacrosse is begging for this. If US Lax did this, the CLA would follow.

But the local directors an dclub leaders are for the mostpart fighting it, SCPAL voted down going to age limits instead of grade and having football like rosters.

The better skilled players will always trump size in lacrosse. And the tournament featured elite teams from MD and Canada. this can be seen at the youth and HS level.

Skill over size, that is true, however it places the kids at serious risk of injury. More so when the big kids get frustrated at losing. Teams who try to make up for lack of skill with brute force, and clueless parents who think "that's lacrosse" do a real disservice to the game and the rest of us have an obligation to call it out when we see it.

Have to agree here. Seen that happen plenty of times!

Agreed too. Particularly at ages when some kids are hitting puberty and some aren't.

Not rocket science. US Lacrosse requires Proof of Birth and establish software that allows tournaments to offer online registration and waivers that cross reference US Lacrosse database.

The Edge program and the 2019 LI Express Westchester kids injury should not really be part of the HOLDBACK conversation. The Edge 2019 team was made up of current 9th and 10th graders--not holdbacks....they are just outright cheating and putting kids at risk of serious injury.

If you are a current 9th or 10th grader you are NOT a 2019 grad year. Therefore, you should NOT be playing on a 2019 team. Nor, should the EDGE LACROSSE program be permitted to stack a roster of older kids and enter them in a 2019 division.

My son was 5' 95 lbs in 9th grade, graduated at 6'2 180 and became much more skilled than the early bloomers who relied only on size in 9th grade. I think this is going to separate the smart college coaches from the ones caught up in early recruiting frenzy. They tend to recruit early bloomers early partially because the whole process is so new they aren't used to evaluating the potential of 14 year olds because they had been used to evaluating 16 and 17 year olds. Size is an advantage to a point, I don't disagree, but sometimes it is overemphasized in 9th grade.

Understand the different dynamics of box lacrosse, leave them in the box.

Same mentality as the sideline coaching dads who shout "take him out" or "put him on his back" - sends the wrong message to the kids.

Would like to hear more from the poster who said they had a player's arm broken by an Edge 2019 player.

From the 2019 thread:

PLEASE READ from EDGE Lacrosse website:

Fall 2014 - Edge 2020 Team (2001/2002 Born/U13)

The 2020/U13 age will be a mixed age of the top 2001 and 2002 born players. This is due to early reclassification of our 2018 and 2019 teams as they enter and prepare for FRESHMEN and Rising Freshmen events. Reclassification is the process in which a player competes in their PG (Post graduate) age division as opposed to their natural 4 year grad year. This is due to US players starting school a year later or staying back a year prior to entering high school. This results in US born players to be a year older as we enter high school. With early recruitment becoming increasingly common among the top DI schools, it is important for our members to reclassify in grade 8/9 in order to compete against similar aged US counterparts. Reclassifying provides our members with the best opportunities to be recruited by the top DI programs in grade 9 and 10.

I'm glad [lacrosse]'s requires proof of birthdate in re the Edge teams.

geesh what is everyone thinking? lacrosse is a game that will be over after college. Get an education and graduate on time

I believe this might qualify as criminal if a player is injured. How can the guys running tournaments permit them to register knowing they are older kids?

This is the program policy??????????

Ban the EDGE LACROSSE from all US tournaments.

wondering if in Canadian educational system might be different. kids with 2001/2002 bdays if born Sept 1 2001 or later would be age appropriate for u13 and the correct age for 2020 in most US jurisdictions

1-1-01 to 8-31-01 is a pretty big gap though.

Let's take it easy on our neibors to the north. They are not the Soviets .

Why would the Edge program need to justify recruiting older kids for their teams if that was the norm i Canada?

there seems to be 2 different things here. If the players are still in 9th not 8th it could get interesting. if held back and in 8th nothing you can do about it.

as far as criminal not to sure about criminal but civil boundaries yes; if one of these 9th grade boys hurts another any waiver the hurt boy's family signed will become null and void. Since the prescribed predetermine level of play was not upheld.

it also seems as if the tournament was warned a head of time and put that warning in a few public forums. this could be very interesting as it rolls out.

Is there a rule on stick length? When my son's team played them at Cornell their shorty sticks looked unusually short....as in impossible to check short.

Edge Lacrosse simply bumps each team down one year in registration, just check their website:

Age Classification
2015/2016 - (1996/1997 Born)
2017 - (1998 Born)
2018 - (1999 Born)
2019 - (2000 Born) Reclassified team
2019 - (2001 Born) TRYOUT with 2020 team

They don't even attempt to hide the fact that they are cheating. This is NOT reclassification, this is a purposeful behavior to give their players an.....EDGE. If every team simply played a year down, they would dominate. But, there is a real consequence, that being injuries. The player who got hurt at the Md tournament by a 2019 Edge player is one example. If that kid was now paralyzed, what would the reaction be?

Maybe it is a Canadian thing. The APEX teams from Canada who played this past weekend had many kids who were in the grade a year older than the published division. 2019 grad years playing on the 2020 team - they openly discussed it on the field and saw nothing wrong with it. What they said on the field was easily validated as a few weekends before the same team played Hogan and self reported grad years of 2019. Their stick skills not too great so they tried to make up for it by brute force and physical play. It will take a life changing injury and lawsuit to make them think twice about not validating grades and ages in the youth divisions.

if playing HS rules yes. pretty ballzy to ask for a stick check. never heard of one in a youth game, but I guess this isn't youth anymore.

It is easy (as many have done) to dismiss the age differential that is now showing up due to non-age based teams as a relatively minor matter. After all, the argument goes, good players play up etc... the risk of injury also seems to get discounted as just a "risk of the game".

As the parent of a 6th grader playing on a AA 20/21 team at the Autumn Classic last weekend I saw the Apex 2020 team and it was very good with very, very big, and very physical players. Only by the luck of the brackets did my son's team not play Apex and for that I am thankful. Otherwise 6th graders would have been playing big 8th graders (who were all 4-6 inches taller and 20 to 30 pounds heavier). A player is going to get badly hurt. I am seriously considering pulling my son out of lacrosse, a sport he loves, and have him play soccer.

This is a big issue that is changing youth lacrosse as I write this and it is not going to go away.

Check out the team photos from Facebook

2019: http://instagram.com/p/vgj0CbktxN/

2020: http://instagram.com/p/vgiMrlkt1k/

one year difference? I think not!

13 years old? Maybe the coach is a [lacrosse].

Wow a lot of those boys are bigger than the kids on my kid's 2017 team and we have some 6'2" 190 lb boys. Granted there are typically a few early bloomers but they look 15 or 16.

Other boards are beginning to cite the Age Verification board and this thread about Edge Lacrosse. I think everyone who understands what they are doing will be thoroughly appalled, it really is revolting and something should be done. I sent an email to the coach of my sons team asking him to not register in any tournaments the Edge is playing in.

Something needs to be done.

This is all about the MONEY!!!! The (men?) running these top teams are also running these tournaments! How come one of the biggest L.I. tournaments didn't even ask for waivers last year? So teams could play down or liability when a fifth grader gets paralyzed by a seventh grader on the same field! They are not playing for glory, but so that team can win and said team can make more MONEY!!! The new angle is these teams are fielding and entering multiple teams per grade level and combining kids from both teams to which ever team makes finals!!!
How come when these kids hit High School level and can not play down (because the recruiters are watching) these great TEAMS can't win a game!!!
For all the Teams playing at the right level and putting their kids in the best Colleges, we look forward to playing these teams in the future. This is not about the MONEY but the KIDS and the legacy of this great game.

It is about the money and the clubs and a completely ineffectual national organization, US Lacrosse, that has as its core mission precisely what it refuses to do, promote player safety. I would encourage concerned parents to contact US Lacrosse as I have done. I do not expect that any one complaint to US Lacrosse will do anything, but if enough people complain (and expose US Lacrosse for being completely ineffectual) then perhaps US Lacrosse will feel some pressure to do something. Anything at this point would be an improvement.

Money is the root - Stop paying US lacrosse. Stop the source of money and force them to listen.

3d does this with HS players, juniors play as 2017s claiming they are going to do a PG year then next tourney or even same tourney they are on a 2016 team. One kid played as a 2017 this summer then committed as a 2016 the following week. It is about winning so your club looks better.

I was just alerted to this message board so please bear with me and let me get the facts in order regarding the Edge lacrosse program:

The Edge lacrosse program enters their teams in divisions that are one year younger than the actual age of their entire team? They are NOT reclassifying, they are just out right cheating. On top of this, some kid got his arm broken by one of the older Edge players. Do I have this all correct?

Who is permitting this to occur?
Who is ultimately liable if a player is seriously injured?
What can we do as parents to protect our children?
Any ideas?

lets not forget that the Edge team probably "re-classed" their "9th graders" last year anyway, so the "current 9th graders" they are recruiting for the 8th grade (2019) team are actually 10th graders. They can't get away with this in ice hockey, USA Hockey will not allow it, so they turn to lacrosse (since Canadians are terrible at football, baseball, soccer and basketball, all sports that are governed by birth year, enough said...)

For 2017s Edge specifies 1998 birth year. In the US 2017s would be late 1998 and 1999s, depending on school enrollment cut offs.

The 2019 is the most shocking as they specify they want 9th graders ( 2018s ) and talented 8th graders, and will compete at u15 tourneys. With the exception of nationals i15 typically preclude high school players.

We need to be vocal with our coaches and clubs who in turn must be vocal with the organizers of any tournament that Edge is entered in. US Lacrosse should be helping out here but they are not.

Unfortunately tons of American teams do it too.

As published team policy? Don't think so. Purposely recruiting kids one grade older and trying to rationuze it via some school year mumbo jumbo is not the same as a team having a few holdbacks.

A couple of Canadian kids steal a few roster spots on Div1 teams and you people are losing your minds!!

If your worrying about your litle boy playing against a reclassed kid a year older what the heck ya going to do when he gets to college and has to play against kids 3 years older!!

Chess club has openings

In college they won't play any kids! They will play against grown men of varying ages. That's the difference.

Most kids will hit puberty by then, the college level also really have the better kids playing. Right now a lot of is it for fun and people shouldnt cheat. Better question, what are these kids who play down going to do when they get to college and dont have the advantage anymore ?

Please show me a US based program that publishes a policy of registering teams one division below their teams actual age.

Read this carefully before posting a response

Edge Lacrosse website:

This is due to early reclassification of our 2018 and 2019 teams as they enter and prepare for FRESHMEN and Rising Freshmen events. Reclassification is the process in which a player competes in their PG (Post graduate) age division as opposed to their natural 4 year grad year. This is due to US players starting school a year later or staying back a year prior to entering high school. This results in US born players to be a year older as we enter highschool. With early recruitment becoming increasingly common among the top DI schools, it is important for our members to reclassify in grade 8/9 in order to compete against similar aged US counterparts. Reclassifying provides our members with the best opportunities to be recruited by the top DI programs in grade 9 and 10.

This could be the most narrow minded, idiotic response I've read on this entire message board. Chess club?

I am worried about my 6th grader, who has not yet hit puberty, playing against the 8th (or 9th) grader with hairy legs and a five o'clock shadow. pretty confident that things will even out some by high school.

Could not agree more with the prior poster's categorization of this comment as "idiotic". No one is talking about or concerned about size difference of college players. The concern is youth lacrosse and the move from age based teams to grade based teams (and the resulting absurd and dangerous mismatches of age and size as older players are held back or just ignore the applicable grade level and play down). Pretending there is no issue will not make the issue go away. Moreover, suggesting that players who are grade appropriate in age and size should either just deal with hold backs or"play chess" is beyond idiotic and speaks volumes as to the author.

What is the difference of U11 where kids can be 2 years apart vs grade based where most kids will be within 15 months given most hold backs are likely summer birthdays?

Maybe the Chess comment was thrown out there to see who would bite.
Fish On!!

There were a healthy amount of 2017 boys playing today for their HS varsity teams. There was also a good amount of 2018's and we even noticed a few 2019's families on the fields today.

The difference is they choose to play up they knew they were playing older opponents. The few young ins' I knew playing their folks did some homework. Their sons also have the bodies and skill to hold their own.

Knowledge is power. Not knowing who you are playing is dangerous.

If programs like Edge are permitted to enter teams "down" and age bracket by tournament program directors, this will become the new norm. All "elite" programs will start doing the same thing to remain competitive.

Youth lacrosse needs leaders, who will step up?

We all need to step up. Write a letter to US Lacrosse, and if in Canada to the CLA. Talk to tournament organizers and put the pressure on. It may take time, but Age Verification Cards need to become a reality.

This Canadien club doesn't understand what reclassification means. As I understand it, when US players are re-classified, they retake 8th grade. In the example of the boy who had his arm broken, the 2019 players are all grad year 2019. The Edge club makes an assumption that ALL of the players will do a post grad year so they decided to register teams based on their post grad graduation year.....?

This is a twisted way to gain an advantage for your clubs players. I feel for the kid who got hurt but lacrosse players get injured. As a parent, I would like to have a choice as to if I allow my son to play against older kids, we shouldn't be deceived. That's what this is about for me. We, as parents, are being deceived so I do not have the ability to make a decision with the facts at hand.

What is this "We" [lacrosse] ? What are you French now ? Some o u LI parents are doing it now. It will get worse. Now these future stars are starting school late here on LI so it's not as obvious when they are 13. Everyone is nuts. Parents dreams of D1 is over for a lot of LI kids. Sport exploded all over by now. The Canadians are superior athletes. Plain and simple. Hockey , box , whatever it is they have it.

This needs to be shared with ALL TOURNAMENT DIRECTORS where this team plans to play. By notifying them of this practice, you void any waiver. You are notifying them that the brackets they set are not being adhered to, and therefore if they allow the team to compete in an improper age group, they are voiding their agreement as a vendor.
The truth of the matter is, this club is allowing 2018 players, who may have been held back already, to play as 2019 players. Even if you do a PG year, you still graduate your HS and then move on.
For those of you ranting and raving that re-classing is cheating, this club is actually the ones who are cheating.

You are not reading the program policy. Show me any US programs registering teams in lower age groups because the players MIGHT do a year of post grad before college. They are not reclassifying a few players by having them repeat 8th grade, they are reclassifying entire teams based on the premise that the kids expect to do a PG year. That's just wrong and no other program in the US is doing it. Please correct me if I am wrong.

Why are tournament organizers allowing a program to cheat so blatantly? Why would they risk being sued by some kids family who gets badly injured?

Is this what lacrosse is all about? Its not how I was raised on the game and I'll not support nor foster this type of behavior. I spoke with our club teams director about this Canadian team from Edge Lacrosse because my son is a 2019 grad. I sent out emails to all of the parents describing what the Edge does and they are in complete agreement that we will not allow our kids to play them in a tournament.

Action must be taken, stop posting and start doing something. Send some emails to these Frog Thugs. One of our parents suggested the parents of the player who was injured should press charges against the Edge club. He's an attorney.

Agreed. I'm not going to allow my son to play against all the holdback loving clubs (Express North, Crabs, Laxachuesetts, Express). Come on now. While it's unfortunate that a boy got hurt, I think he was on the 2019 Express North team which has at least 8-9 holdbacks. Seems like they were possibly playing an aged appropriate team in Edge. Repeating 8th grade is crazy and should be a major embarrassment for the parents and kids. But it is what it is. Go on the field and play. This site seems to be way too consumed with cheaters. Let's move on.

Should re-title this thread "The Whining Parents". Glad my parents generation was not like the current one. They just dropped me off at practice and said "do your best and play hard". No wonder many people proclaim the pussification of America. Can't hover over little Johnnie forever folks.

Edge should just be evaluated for what they are: a team that is a year older than the divisions they are currently permitted to enter. So 2020 Edge should be welcome at any tournament.....provided they take their rightful place in the 2019 division and so on and so forth for all their teams. Given how they advertise their program on their own website I don't see how they could be surprised. Nor, as an attorney, do I think that tournamant directors would be absolved of liability if an Edge kid seriously hurt someone. Even a passing view of the Edge website site reveals their philosophy so it will be tough for any director to claim ignorance. Presumably there is some basic due diligence associated with hosting a tournament. Somebody will get hurt, a lawsuit will follow, and then maybe people who currently look the other way will start paying serious attention.

I am Canadian - my son was born in Nov 1998 and is in grade 11, so he is a 2016. He is 6'2" 210 lbs and a very physical D man.
If he went to school in most states he would be in grade 10 being a Nov baby, so now he is a 2017. If he was to repeat grade 8 like some American kids that would make him a 2018!!

If he were to go to college in 2016 he would show up at college as a 17 year old. Most College coaches we have spoke to have stated the they dont want 17 year olds on thier roster and he should do a PG year/reclass.

He doesnt play for Edge but dont blame Edge for the whole reclass fiasco in the end it is the Colleges that make the decisions and will pay for most of the schooling so if they want reclassified kids, people will reclass!!!

If the kids broken arm was a broken neck, would we dismiss this as whining? Not a topic that should garner so much attention? Get real people, this issue needs to be addressed head on. Save the sport and don't allow kids to be placed in harms way without notice.

why doesn't Suffolk lacrosse have the same thing as Suffolk pal football they use a program called direct roster when the players are registered a pictures and put it is get printed out with their name birthdate and organization
it needs to start somewhere

If you feel Edge should do that ok. What about the US teams ? Are they dismissed because they only have some on the teams that do it ? Let's not be hypocritical here. Every team is doing it now. Whether it's the whole team or just a few.

2018 crabs have six 1998 b days and a bunch of 1999. That is just plain cheating.
If they played age, they be at best just an average team

This post points out the irony and hypocrisy of the current holdback / age based team fiasco. As long as the big east coast clubs (and compliant parents with visions of D-1 positions for their sons) can game the rules by going to age based teams and holding kids back to get age and size advantage (the euphemism the "advantage of time" is precious); everything is just fine. Anyone who complains is a "whiner" and an over protective "helicopter parent" who just will not let the boys play. However, as soon as a team dares to be constituted entirely of holdbacks (which is the logical end result to the system gaming), then there is strident bitching and moaning that that team is "cheating". How dare a team be created with just holdbacks and players playing down. Put another way, it’s OK if we do it for some players (and get a competitive advantage over other teams), but it is not OK (in fact it's cheating or much worse) if another team does it for all players and gets a competitive advantage over us.

The problem is that using grade level as the standard for organizing teams is no standard at all, if (as is the case); parents, coaches are willing hold kids back or simply play kids down. In a grade based system how can you even challenge or enforce against players playing down? There is no proof as to what grade a kid is in (which is the point of course and what makes grade based teams so seductive until it backfires).

As arbitrary as age based teams can be around the edges, it is the only solution for youth lacrosse. A prior poster had it right: Lacrosse at this point has no integrity.

That's why this thread exists to prompt some kind of U.S. Lacrosse action to regulate tournament age/grade rules. It's the wild west right now and that's not safe.

The best course of action right now is to encourage your program to only pick tournaments that actually have or enforce age or grade rules. Sadly, those seem to be the exception to the rule.

By the way, regarding Canadian age rules for grades, I think they are only about 1 month different than the rule for NY, which is in turn only about 3 months different than U.S. Lacrosse. Certainly not different enough to justify dropping teams down an entire grade level.

And since when did wanting collective action for safe and competitively fair gameplay count as whining? Are all the sports that have it a bunch of whiners? I'd say holding back your kid for artificial competitive advantage is the ultimate "whine", but then again I can certainly see why parents do it for recruiting reasons.

There is a very important difference. Edge Lacrosse signs up entire teams in younger divisions as their program policy. When you play teams that have a few kids how were reclassified its the decision of the parents. Additionally, the Edge Lacrosse program is registering teams in younger brackets based on an assumption that all of the players will play a post graduation year and basing the registration on that year. Individual reclassified kids are being moved in school to the lower grad year now. In my mind, these two points differentiate the two scenarios and frankly, its not even debatable.

The fact is that most of the parents that complain about the holdbacks say it's about safety but in reality it's about the older kids dominating on the field and getting the better recruiting options.

Just be honest and say that you don't like older kids taking away precious D1 spots from your kid.

I don't look at this thread or yourself as whining. You have an educated civilized approach. It's the person who cap locks and writes d bag cheaters. They are going about it all wrong. IMO. There's peaceful protest and then there's the people who burn and loot. I have no symphathy and they just annoy me. There's a wrong and a right way.

Here is another way to look at it, if the Edge players reclassed and repeated 8th grade (like US players are doing), when they are in 9th grade they should "actually" be in 10th grade, correct? Their website plainly states that they are looking for 9th graders to play on their 8th grade team. Those 9th graders are "actually" 10th graders. That is where I have a problem. To take it one step further, if the parents held the boys back in kindergarten (like a lot of people do), he is "actually" an 11th grader, playing against 8th graders, give me a break.

in Canada you cant hold your kid back for kindergarten and a quarter of the kids start school a year early as the school system is Jan-Dec unlike USA that is Sept-Aug. You are misinformed on Canadian school system.

Your truly do not get it. It is not about the D1 spots (although I suspect it is for you). It is about showing up at a tournament with kids 11 to 13 years old and playing in brackets with kids 14 and 15 year olds. Not so bad for the 13 year old playing against a 14 year old, but quite a problem when the 15 year old goes after the 11 year old in a game setting. When that happens it is not a game, but a bad and dangerous (yes dangerous) farce.

As a parent, I want the ability to make decisions about my son's safety. We do it every day, why not in sports. If someone asks my son to play up, I am making the conscious decision to allow him to play with/against older kids and accept the risk. It seems Edge Lacrosse is playing teams that believe them to be 2019 (13 year olds) when in fact they are at least one year older. The deception creates a situation that does not allow me as a parent to make an informed decision about my son playing against older kids, an inherently more dangerous endeavor.

Does anyone know how the parents of the injured 2019 player has responded? Have they posted on the board?

This practice needs to stop. Let everyone play straight up and see where your kid ranks. Gaming the system only puts kids...they are just kids... in jeopardy.

For anyone concerned about this issue, please contact US Lacrosse and voice your opinion - http://www.uslacrosse.org/about-us-lacrosse/contact-us.aspx

If you don't speak up, nothing will be done.

Well said. For the parents of middle schoolers this is all about safety. Any parent who has been on the receiving end of this nonsense knows the gut wrenching feeling when their kid is being knocked around by kids a full helmet taller.

Unfortunately, seems as nothing will ever be done

under what scenario are 11 yr olds playing against 15 yr olds even with grade based events? Are suggesting kids are being held back 3 times? exaggerating to make a point weakens the argument.

perhaps grade based tournaments should also have an age limit, ie to play in 2020 they have to be born after june 1, 2001, that would accommodate "reasonable" holdbacks. so the oldest and youngest would be 18 months apart...

It needs to be done by age group and dob
example
girls or boys U-11 have to be born in 2004
it's simple
if your left back sorry but athletics should not be your top priority and if your parents puy you in school late your playing on grade

I just heard of a youth wrestler in 6th grade who is a youth state champ his parents are attempting yo have repeat grade so he can get his weight up and have more years on varsity

RE: age verification

(I transferred this from another thread as I feel it may be of help to some...fwiw; our plan resulted in a top 5 2017 commit for an age appropriate player.)

We've been down this road so many times...

Yes it is deplorable that re-classed kids must use a younger venue to be able to become visible for recruiting purposes.

It's not going away anytime soon.

The only immediate solution is for dads of younger than 2017/2018 to get as much additional training as possible. Showing up for practice is not going to be enough.

Do what we did: invest in the best private coaching you can for your sons position.
Invest in an early age appropriate private conditioning program with a personal trainer.

Get him on the best team he can qualify for where he has a realistic chance of starting or at least get even playing time (those clubs are out there)

Maintain strict academic standards. No high grades = no lax or other sports. It's a privilege, not a right to play.

Look for any signs of stress. It's supposed to be fun. If it's not; find out why and try to work towards a solution.

Let him find his way; don't push.

Be 100% supportive; win or lose.

If he's good; he will kick the butts on the older kids who have to play down. Typically, their skill sets don't match their physical maturity advantage (why would they be playing down instead of with their peers?) and are easy prey for good players.

Be positive.

All of the Edge Players on 2019 were born in 2000. Get over yourself

edge 2019 all played bantam box lacrosse last summer which includes age verification. Bantam Box in 2014 was for players born in 2001 and 2000. A slight exaggeration saying these kids are in grade 10. NONE of them are over the age of 14

Yeah but being born in January of 2000 is a lot different than being born in October of 2000

2000 b-day belongs in 2018...that is the point

Omg 2000 is Grad year 2018..... 2001=2019

I think the point is "most" states allow ANY kid born after July 1 to play in the grade he/she is in, so long as they have their 19th birthday AFTER July 1.

The problem is "most" local/state educational boards "recommend" Dec 1 as the cut-off date for class designation to enter kindergarten.

But, what is a parent to do with the slower developing child that has a birth date between July 1 & November 30?

We have to get to a point where we say it's either age & weight, or grade qualifications for competition.

I think we can all agree, age & weight is the safest and most appropriate standard to grow our sport.

Identification cards, with annual, digital-update-ability as to what town & club team a player is affiliated with should be the goal. Photo, birth dates, etc.

Let's just create a standard and go with it. Talk to your local governing bodies, send emails and letter to US Lax, have conversations with those "in the know" and we can standardize competition qualifications.

Youth Lacrosse locally and nationally is BEGGING for this.

We have been through this before. You says "most" schools use December 1 as a cut off date when you enter kindergarten. You are wrong. See this link for a state by state cut off date listing: http://www.schoolsnmore.com/articles/article/107-kindergarten-cut-off-dates-by-state

Also, as we all know us lacrosse uses 9.1

That chart sure does put a huge hole in the whiner's theory. Looks like most states (as well as US Lacrosse) use a 9/1 cutoff. Next excuse please?

I don't think the poster is whining or trying to make excuses. It seems pretty clear he/she is trying to set the tone for an educated discussion to come up with a standardized set of qualifications for grade & age eligibility.

Less thumping of the chest, more open discussion and we might get there.

Maryland's cutoff to enter kindergarten in a public school is 9/1. If you are not age 5 by 9/1, you do not begin kindergarten until the following fall.

Actually makes more sense that way!

9.1 is the cut off date for the majority of states. Ny and Hawaii are the latest dates. Read that link in the earlier post

Well, if Sep 1 is the current cutoff in the majority of the states, the let's get this some nationwide.

Write letters to US Lax AND to your local organizations. Let's get standardized photo ID's with birthdates, town & club affiliations clearly stated.

Then we need to put the pressure on the "Tourney Circuit" and demand higher standards.

Nah, I will just come here to thump my chest when my kid wins and whine when my kid loses to "older" players

Ya about 9 months different while US Lacrosse has 24 month cohorts. Calm down. That Edge team already has kids with offers. I don't think Canadians are making the NCAA because of grad year manipulation. They are making it because they have advanced stick skills and tough courtesy of box lacrosse. Time to evaluate how our kids play the sport.

Us lacrosse uses 9.1 as their cut off date. Most age based tourneys go by us lacrosse rules. However, most tourneys are moving towards grade based not age based. Us lacrosse can't do anything about this. It is up to the tourney director to determine their own rules. Us lax has nothing to do with private tourneys. Finally, having grade based tourneys makes it easier for colleges to recruit because they dont have to guess what grade the kid is in.

Canada is Jan 1st
So the Sept to Dec Canadian born kid is one whole year behind the American kid.
Edge not looking like cheaters now!!

I really liked the guy that stated separate them by size and weight.
Lets see I am a College Coach - do I go to field #3 and watch the 5'5" 140lb and under game or do I go to field #1 and watch the 6 footers?

Lol I think it's fair to say that is just not a option- but it does speak to why proper age verification is paramount in all sports

No LI dad is going to respond to this because you just exposed their B.S.

[quote=Anonymous]I really liked the guy that stated separate them by size and weight.
Lets see I am a College Coach - do I go to field #3 and watch the 5'5" 140lb and under game or do I go to field #1 and watch the 6 footers?
/quote]

In that sentence you don't capitalize "College Coach."

What position are you in to verify the birth dates of the Edge program players?

I think some posters are missing the point of the Edge Lacrosse program issue. The program, not the parents, is structured so that their rosters are one year older than the teams they play against.

Obfuscate the point all you want. The fact remains their business model centers around organized and purposeful cheating which endangers players without parents having the ability to decide if they want their child playing against older kids.

School cutoff dates, weight, height....its all a smoke screen that I must believe is being sent up by an Edge employee or director.

My sons coach has already confirmed they will not register for tournaments that allows the Edge teams to participate. He's an old school Syracuse alumni who is hyper competitive but thinks the Edge program policy is dangerous and completely unfair. I think he has some pull with a bunch of larger tournaments through his college relationships. Hopefully it has the desired effect.

Is he going to avoid Sweetlax, 3d, Crabs et al? They are all doing it. Are you LI people that slow?

Edge Parent. All players born in 2000. All players 14 yrs old or younger.

How are they all in full puberty then? Is that a Canada thing? Please??

My son is a 2002- 7th grader and will be 13 in the early part of this new year - So the 2000 kids will be 15 starting in about 1 month. Aren't most kids turning 14 in 8th grade - the 2019 year???? Our 9th graders turn 15, not our 8th graders. Are we talking about 2019 Edge being 2000 yr born?

It seems to me that the slow LI people are trying to bring some sanity to a dangerous and unethical situation. While the Wendy whiners in the greater Balto area that have clearly flouted the rules for years are upset by any push to right the ship.
Canadians are following the lead of the cheaters south of the 49th, but they have always followed big brother. You can't blame them.

Let's all agree, September 1 cutoff date. If kids aren't 5yrs old by 9/1, they don't have to enter kindergarten.

Let's get the US Lax, CLA, OLA, etc, to show some leadership and mandate birth certificate verified photo ID's.

All of the side-bantering, including mine, doesn't mean a thing until we have organized, mandated standardization of age verification.

I have friends who are affiliated with the Edge program, and I Iove the lacrosse they produce, but the language on their website is disturbing. It illustrates the need for standardized age verification.

play by grade only - stop the BS - 2018's play against 2018's

That is great for your old kid, but seems unfair to have barely 14 year olds playing against 16 year olds because they "decided" to repeat 8th grade twice or just "reclassified" (maybe do a PG year 4 years from now).

Cheating is cheating.

Cheat - act dishonestly or unfairly in order to gain an advantage , especially in a game or examination

That is from the dictionary. Does that hit a little close to home?

Some American clubs started this practice. How can we blame Edge for following. Btw the CLA does not sanction and have nothing to do with Canadian club teams. They sanction box lacrosse and national and international field teams and tournaments.

You don't think the best lacrosse players in Ontario have started puberty by 14? They are the too players for their area...of course they are going to be big.

So Edge parent if the are all 2000 birthdays then you should be playing in the 2018 and NOT the 2019 division. I believe that is the point everyone is trying to make.

Yes, but the CLA can help organize/pressure the Ontario Lacrosse Association, and other provincial lacrosse associations, to adhere to a strict guideline.

Not to mention Stan Cockerton has held positions on the OLA , is a NCAA & Canadian HOFer, and is currently an executive with the International Lacrosse Federation.

It's time to bring some uniformed regulation to our game. Especially as we see the growth of it both nationally and internationally.

And I think it has been proven many times that 14 yr olds are currently playing 2019 all over the place.

But I dont think that there are teams that are all 2000 birthdays. Yes do I believe that there are 2or 3 on some of the top Long Island teams but not the whole team. And I dont agree with that either

I totally disagree, my son is born in 2000 and is in 9th grade, I don't care how old other kids are, I want my son to play against 2018's and it does not matter if they were born late 1998 or anytime in 1999, if they are graduating high school in 2018 and or starting college in the fall of 2018 then that is my sons competition and that is who the college coaches are going to be comparing him too, not same age but same grade, stop crying about this point, it is never going to change - and it is NOT cheating

I was in total agreement until you said its not cheating !

It doesn't matter because colleges dont care , but it is cheating. How can you say it's not? You are keeping kid back to gain an advantage. That's definition of cheating

Once a cheat - ALWAYS a cheat....you are cheating yourself and especially your son.

I believe you are missing the point. We are seeing more and more 9th grade/2018 boys playing at the 8th grade 2019 level as a 2019 team. A fact that the Edge website clearly states they do. The difference between an old freshman and a young 8th grader can be significant and poses safety issues. My son plays for a team listed as an offending team (Laxachusetts) as a 2019. He is an 8th grader and I don't know of any of the boys that are playing down as suggested. They are all 8th graders. Now I know the Clams do play kids down. I know of younger 2019 light kids that play 2020 and they regularly have HS boys play down to get them more exposure.

Forget about what grade he is in , was he born in 2001 that is the question . Isnt that how youth hockey in New England does it . If the rules of youth hockey are strictly enforced then why is it different in lacrosse . I am sure that some of the boys play both sports .

Correct all are late 2000 (Sept cutoff) or 2001 kids. Should definitely have a system like hockey or pop Warner football for review. But in reality other than safety the only advantage is the club gets bragging rights that they won this tournament or that one. Any advantage for the almighty parental $. Unless the boy changes grade he will eventually have to play with the big boys. For my son it is the training at this age. He trains with 19s, 18s, and with HS boys team. Btw neither of my boys teams have ever had any any problem competing with and beating the Edge teams.

There are no American club teams that register their teams in divisions that are one year below their age level. There are a few parents who have decided to hold their sons back a year. The difference can not be over emphasized. Are you serious in arguing the point?

But these 2000 born kids are turning 15. One or two holdbacks fine- but all your players are 2000- meaning by the end of tournament season in August- many of your players are actually 15 yr olds and not 14, like true 2019 players that should be born in 2001... get it now? lol

The difference being the Edge Lacrosse has a simply stated program directive: "WE WILL PLAY AGAINST YOUNGER TEAMS"

You hit the nail right on the head. Edge Lacrosse gains an advantage by playing against younger teams. Why is there any debate on the issue? Bad for lacrosse and potentially dangerous to the kids.

seriously? Remove your head from the sand. I saw at least 4 "American Club" teams with all 2000s playing 2019 this fall. A "few parents"....give me a break.

Name the program.
Show me the proof.

"Edge Lacrosse tears up Fall ball"

would be embarrassed if I found out my sons team played their entire season against teams that were younger than our kids. I would consider it a waste of time playing kids younger than our own age, it certainly doesn't make them better, it gives them a false sense of their abilities. This is what's wrong with youth lacrosse.

http://instagram.com/p/vfSq20ktyF/?modal=true

So how to organize these thoughts and get them officially put in front of US Lacrosse. Is there a procedure for new petitions?

I don't think you have a true grasp of what Edge is doing. They aren't travelling down to these tournaments to get better or to test themselves. That's what box lacrosse is for, where the norm is for the best players to age up. Any false sense of abilities gets quickly sorted out once you are in junior playing 20 year olds. Your worth as a player in Canada is decided first and foremost by the ability and toughness you show in box. These recruiting tournaments are strictly business. They are coming down to get scholarships and it's working because the college coaches do not care one bit. In fact, they come up to Canadians and actively instigate reclassifying. While I wholeheartedly agree that the practice of dropping a team down is wrong and should be eliminated, the same should be done for the practice of holding kids back at kindergarten and grade 8. Edge didn't open the door, they just kicked it wide open. If you have even one relassified kid on your club team, unfortunately you have no right to complain about Edge. Either there are rules or there isn't and right now there isn't. The only way to stop it is for people to demand US lacrosse adopt a hard age policy in line with box lacrosse in Canada or youth hockey/soccer. It's actually amazing that there isn't to be honest. Until then, if Crabs, Dukes, etc., keep relassifying, expect Edge to keep doing it too.

This is the issue. Contacting US Lacrosse on an individual level feels good (I encourage anyone so inclined to do so as I have), but I am sure it makes no difference.

An organized effort might make a difference (particularly with the growing helmet fiasco). US Lacrosse is a very weak organization that so far as I can tell is captive to the clubs. That being said, US Lacrosse is now issuing cards to player members with their membership number and birth date, so the beginning of an infrastructure seems to be place.

Realize that we are up against the clubs and club owners who like the present system just fine. The clubs advocated for the current grade based non-system and they "own it". The grade based teams makes putting teams together administratively easier and the opaqueness of grade based teams (without age bands) gives the club owners maximum flexibility to "game" the system (which they absolutely do).

I don't think you have a true grasp of what Edge is doing. They aren't travelling down to these tournaments to get better or to test themselves. That's what box lacrosse is for, where the norm is for the best players to age up. Any false sense of abilities gets quickly sorted out once you are in junior playing 20 year olds. Your worth as a player in Canada is decided first and foremost by the ability and toughness you show in box. These recruiting tournaments are strictly business. They are coming down to get scholarships and it's working because the college coaches do not care one bit. In fact, they come up to Canadians and actively instigate reclassifying. While I wholeheartedly agree that the practice of dropping a team down is wrong and should be eliminated, the same should be done for the practice of holding kids back at kindergarten and grade 8. Edge didn't open the door, they just kicked it wide open. If you have even one relassified kid on your club team, unfortunately you have no right to complain about Edge. Either there are rules or there isn't and right now there isn't. The only way to stop it is for people to demand US lacrosse adopt a hard age policy in line with box lacrosse in Canada or youth hockey/soccer. It's actually amazing that there isn't to be honest. Until then, if Crabs, Dukes, etc., keep relassifying, expect Edge to keep doing it too. [/quote]

Could not agree more with the sentiments expressed above. At present, there are effectively no rules. The US clubs are only upset at Edge because Edge "out gamed" them. US Lacrosse is unhappily the answer here. Any thoughts as to how to bring organized and concerted pressure on US Lacrosse? Although a completely different area, watch the helmet issue. I am attaching a link to a post put out by US Lacrosse to refs relating to how noncomplying helmets are to be handled.

https://www.[lacrosse]/Group...t%20-%20Officials%20Memo%20-%20Final.pdf

Under the caption of "Why is this important" is this lead sentence. "The safety of players is the most important thing and is everyone's responsibility in the game." If that is the position (and it certainly should be), then US Lacrosse needs to be actively be pushing for age based restrictions.

Why would a tournament director let an entire team play down a grade? Who (other than Edge) would go to a tournament that did again?

There is a major difference between a parent deciding their son is too small to or is having issues keeping up in school and holding them back a year and Edge Lacrosse which just plays entire teams down an age group. You really don't see the difference? So, its okay if a travel team plays down two years? Three? My 4th grader would look great playing against 2nd graders.

I would like to know what "American Club" teams are playing teams down an age division. Please share with the board the program, the grad year and the tournament. Thank you.

I don't see the difference as it applies to high-level club lacrosse. Leaving it up to parents discretion is what has led to this debacle in the first place. I don't care if a kid has to be held back for academic reasons, that makes sense. Why that child should gain an athletic benefit for poor academic performance doesn't. Nor does letting parents decide if there child is too small for their age and holding them back. If your child is so small that you seriously fear he can't play within his own age group, I think you have 3 choices. You can either understand the child will always be small and should learn to use it to his advantage, you can play the child down to the appropriate level of play (within age, ie. from AA to A), or you can pick a more appropriate sport. Otherwise, it's entirely possible that Edge just happens to be a team full of parents who thought their kids were too small for 2018 or need an extra year of schooling. Oh wait, that's exactly what happened isn't? If it's good for one it's good for all. Sliding scales don't work and parental discretion absolutely does not work. You need hard rules enforced by US lacrosse using age not grade. It's the only way to close loop holes and keep it fair. Or don't and stop bitching about Edge. But hey, at least they only reclassified once. How many 2019's are getting ready for their driving tests next year? Now that's scary

What US based lacrosse program is registering entire teams down an age group?

What exactly led to Edge Lacrosse basing their club's program on playing against younger kids in tournaments? I'm not following your logic.

None that I know of..But plenty have grade based teams with kids that have been held back a grade.

So, Mr. Canadian, what is the answer? Every lax program has to play down against younger competition? Only Edge?

Parental discretion doesn't work? So the response is lying about the kids age? You post a lot of BS. How would your team do against age appropriate competition?

From US Lacrosse website: 2015 Age Grouping Quick Reference Table


Birthdate Age Bracket


Born on or after 9/1/1999 U15
Born on or after 9/1/2001 U13
Born on or after 9/1/2003 U11
Born on or after 9/1/2005 U9

....So, to take this a step further and fill in for U14, U12, U10 & U8, we assume 9/1 is the cut-off date for each given year.

September 1 is also the academic cut-off date for "most" states (to correct a previous poster), so this is reasonable.

The way I see it, we all need to pressure not only US Lacrosse, but also our local town/county & state officials to set these standards.

We need to be vocal and enlist the support of coaches and parents.

It's been said before, if soccer/hockey, etc. can do it, than so can lacrosse.

Get involved, be persistent, make this happen.

Birth year based is the way to go. I just found this site, I'm in CO and every single sophomore who has committed in my state (that I am aware of) is age appropriate with the exception of one, and as some can guess he is the one with the dad who is a big lax name. IMHO he would be committed anyway. There are now several 2016s playing as 2017s, but they are currently juniors, and none have been picked up. At least one is academically motivated, but his GPA is extremely low (1.something) so I question the prudence of trying to attend any D1 school to play lacrosse if you cannot maintain even a D average, (heck I would not let my kid do it if he was under a B average) another year will not change that.

9/1/14-8/30/15 seems to be the norm in the majority of the states, and are also the US Lax recommended eligibility dates.

Make these the requirements, along with photo IDs. Have US Lax require IDs be checked prior to all games or the US Lax insurance coverage is void for that tourney.

This may be the only way to get tourney directors to adhere to age verification regulations.

It will also stop organizations from sliding kids around from other teams at the youth level to win. Bad situation in Vail a few years back when a team brought kids from other teams in for the U15 championship game, boys were literally on the sidelines switching out jerseys. The same organization got DQ'd at U17 for unrostered kids. Meanwhile, parents of kids who paid to be on the team were asking the opposing team to complain because their kids were on the bench after paying and traveling. Funny thing is that Vail is just for fun, not really a recruiting thing but cheaters gonna cheat, right? In that case the coach was a well-known guy and everyone was afraid to say anything.

I'm still waiting to read a post from one of the parents of the kid who got hurt at the fall 3D tournament. Their opinion should matter. They should raise some [lacrosse] and complain to the guys running the tournaments. They are the gate keepers.

Just read an email from Rob Panel about his new training company that "breeds fair play,and confidence"

Was it fair Rob that you were a holdback and pg and redshirt? Will you tell the kids to repeat grades like you did to get an advantage?

Hypocritical

Don't misjudge my response and not that it right for any kid to get injured but what if that kid was a reclass too. That team has several also. What about the kid who injured him ? Do you stop to think maybe he feels horrible ? Oh wait he's a Canadian who cheats. This site continues to be a soap opera.

I just wish people would pose viable solutions to this problem rather than vent about their feelings or stories they can tell.

Maybe then this site wouldn't be soap opera as you say.

Its not the Edge kids' fault, its the parents and more so the program admins. I don't know anything about the player who was injured, but does it really matter? Its the program practices that are in question and the tournament directors collecting fat checks who allow teams to register in whatever division they choose without proof. I agree with the person who posted it will take a serious injury followed by that tournament getting sued. Its the way of our world.

Answer? Age based bracketing with proof of age cards administered by US Lacrosse. I've already passed along my opinion to our town program director, but I'm not sure what that will do.

Gate Keepers????

Guess what Jamie is 100% on board with playing kids up, reclassifying, etc. He did it with his own kid.

Wow He must have been an old geezer by the time he graduated. Problem with lacrosse is that College is the pinnacle of this sport. And being older to a point that is never reached for college is easy with several years of staying back. If there was a paying pro lacrosse the players would be itching to go there early

Could you imagine how good College Footbal or Basketball would be if nobody left early.
Unfortunately 65% of those kids that school early for NBA/NFL will be broke and looking for work by 45 years of age.
Good thing lacrosse has a 84% graduation rate so your kid can earn good money with his degree for the rest of his life!!

The 2019 thread is fixated on registering teams down a year and the Edge lacrosse program. Its certainly a concern that is spreading.

Heh, in non-hotbeds good youth teams play up in the top division. A completely different animal IMHO because parents agree to have kids play with older kids not vice versa.

Playing up is fine so long as you know what you have signed up for. The problem is that with no age restrictions you cannot make an informed decision. I made the mistake of allowing my son to play up (6th grade playing on a 7th grade team) only to find at a tournament this fall that his team was playing an 8th grade team with a number of hold backs. The situation in my judgment was dangerous and the result was predictable.

It was ultimately my fault, but it was really infuriating.

Then both sports would have a holdback mentality like lacrosse. The older they are to start and play college the better.

I'm wondering what US program will follow the Edge lead of registering down entire teams. If Edge is permitted to continue this practice, others will be forced to follow.

I doubt rather hope no teams in the hotbeds do this. It is sad enough when one player does this. Read about the hoppla over the Express goalie. doubt any other organization would want to stick their necks out. with kids doing the holdback thing in 8th -10th grade

actually there are hoops players that get recruited from AAU teams to switch to prep schools and repeat grades. fairly common. not driven by parents with deep pockets but opportunity for players to get D1 offers and schools hoping hoop ringers will take team to promise land

How can you guys be so naive to think it doesn't happen already? Do LI teams not encounter the Crabs or Sweetlax?

Happens all the time on LI too. 91 orange, Crush, express all have players that are too old, born before Dec. 1. If you have one kid that is too old you are cheating, in NY MD or canada

Call people cheaters all you want, but Dec 1 is NOT the cut-off date. Sep 1 is, for US Lax and most of the states academic and athletic guidelines. So, please get off of your high horse.

This is exactly why we need uniformed age verification requirements. Until we do, clubs like Edge will game the system. But for ALL kids born after Sep 1, they are all eligible and playing in their proper grade.

If you're going to whine and complain because your snotty nosed kid maybe playing against older kids sometimes, get the date right. It's Sept. 1. Of course, if there are a couple that are July/Aug. and miss the cutoff, by all means call the US Atty General and Obama. We need to lock these kids and their no good, lying, cheating parents up and throw away the key. It would be a national tragedy to have your over protected kid have to play some others a few months older.

When the program actively registers teams in divisions that are at least a year younger, then YES, something needs to be done. Don't confuse the two.

Why do I feel like this is from a dad who couldn't bear to watch precious get creamed by kids his own age and figured repeating a grade or two would make him a force? Whose kid again is over protected?

BTW my age appropriate 2017 has been recruited by top schools. He's not even big for his age.

Congrats! Go pump your chest where people care.

First its only a few months older..then its a few few months older..Cheating is cheating and you are a cheater ...pretty simple..

What's pretty simple is that you don't get it. Sep 1 is the athletic cut off date, even in NY State. Get your head out of your [lacrosse] and stop whining.

If you want to do something about real cheaters that holdback, PG and then play down, get on the horn to US Lax & your local Lax organizations and push for photo ID age verification.

The 3 months (Sep 1-Nov 30) that you seem to be complaining about, have always been part of the landscape even for states and local boards of Ed that recommend kids age 5 on or before Dec 1 start kindergarten.

You see, we live in a free country, and families can decide for themselves if their child is ready to go to school full time or not. The states athletic boards then apply the age standards for safety.

Do some reading before you accuse people of cheating.

Sorry, you sir do not get. Example: If a roster of players are graduating HS in 2017, they should not be registered in a 2018 bracket. How is it any more complicated than that?

Oh, I completely get that. In response to .... "First its only a few months older..then its a few few months older..Cheating is cheating and you are a cheater ...pretty simple.."

So, either state that you are talking about reclassing an entire roster, or not.

"Sorry, you sir do not get. Example: If a roster of players are graduating HS in 2017, they should not be registered in a 2018 bracket. How is it any more complicated than that?"

If a student plans to finish grade 12 in 2017 then do a PG year he will be a 2018.
What part of that do you not get!!

He is still graduating in 2017, whether he is doing a post graduate year, joining the military before college, joining the peace corps, etc.

To avoid this controversy, kids should be grouped by their birth years.

My 9th grade son plans to spend 3 years in the Peace Corps after HS before college so he is playing with our 2021 team. He's killing it out there! We are so proud of him.

No he is not a 2018 kid. You are a [lacrosse] idiot. You are the ones who are manipulating the system. Personally I don't care about the age issue my kid plays up whenever he can. This has caused people to think he is older. But the year that is thrown around is a players HS graduating year. not the year he enters college.

Do you want to change that now? get with it. In this example the player is a 2017 doing a PG year. Not a 2018 kid!!!!

To me if you started school as a hold back (Didnt start when the municipality told you to), whatever, your a loser not a cheater. Yes I said it a loser. Your child had issues and couldn't cut it, so you intervened. I know plenty of parents which did this only because they thought their kid wont be successful. Loser, your kid is smarter in the grade they are in now because they're older. Plain and simple. Wonder if national Honor society could do a stat on that one.

To me if you started school on time and got held back for non academic/medical reasons prior to 11 grade you are a cheater (which is worse than loser).

To me if you do a PG year you are okay. You are trying to better your situation. Not on a tax dollar or not at the expense of another child moving ahead who is on schedule.

Intends to do a PG year? Are you justifying playing teams down based on plans/hopes/dreams FIVE YEARS hence? Read your post again sir. PG stands for POST GRADUATION. Tournaments register teams based on HS GRADUATION...not what might happen POST GRADUATION.

My friend from Canada. I was trying to remain neutral on this debate because I abhor the parents who are indeed cheating by holding their kids back. But, you completely lost me with the argument that the Edge program is legit because you are including the PG year when determining where teams should be bracketed in tournaments. That logic couldn't be more twisted nor farcical in defending. I sincerely hope this type thinking, based purely on greed, does not become the norm in youth lacrosse.

good luck with that...

From a college coach POV:

2018 is not HS graduation year (Spring 2018)
2018 is college matriculation year (Fall 2018)

I hate to say it, but the reclasses rule the day

college coaches have always said...when do we get them on campus? They don't care...this whole reclass thing may explain why LI sucks so bad at the UA tournament....all their guys are a year younger

At local recruiting show case- 2018- said to one of the directors my son is having hard time competing here. he ask his bday- which is age appropriate for 2018. he said he is to young. most of these kids are 1 to 2 years older, he will not be able to compete unless he has size or unbelievable speed.

Bottom line, look at college rosters. Kids playing today graduating high school are going away to schools as 18 year olds. Most kids go away to schools in august. US lacrosse aug 31 cutoff seems to be the norm for 95 percent of the kids. I was an end of the year kid when i went to school, way back when, I was 17. You don't see that much in college lax anymore. Kids are 18 when they go away to school as lacrosse players. Its not cheating, its the US lax cutoff . Now using that US Lax cutoff also seems to be the norm in club lacrosse as well . Again its not cheating.Thats the cutoff almost everyone uses. Parents want their kids to start kindergarden at 5 yrs old , not 4, is not cheating. Those kids graduating high school at 19 or in some cases 20, having 9 yr old kids, playing 7 yr old kids. This is cheating.

I understand that fact but the Edge is H-edge-ing their bets that the players will PG or reclass and havnt as of yet done so. If I were that player I wont do a PG Id red shirt on my dime and practice with the team.

The middie "committed" from Edge when is he committed for? Has he a verbal because he is in 9th grade? and is no longer in 8th grade yet he plays in a 2019 bracket.

Keep this thread rolling boys. Great entertainment. Nothing you say on here will change a thing, but it sure is funny!

Again....hold backs must do domain order to compete with age appropriate domination from Long Island.

.they just can't match up skill wise; so they must cheat. Period. P

Luckily, the best of 2017 and 2018 Long Island kids who are true Age appropriate are all committing as expected.

Canada and the DMV areas can continue to propagate the cheating but the skill set deficiencies will be apparent in college for the most part.

My 2017 is 5'8" and 135 lbs, he is planning on growing and adding weight so can I list him at 6"3" and 200lbs? After all, that is the plan. He also has a 3.0, but I am sure his grades will get better so we have 3.9 on his video, because by the time he graduates he will have that.

Apparently it is their 6'3 200+ D guy. He's not committed but has offers from attending camps. He is a reclassified 2019. His brother did the same thing and is going to JHU next year.

What was coaches name from that show "Coach"

Wonderful. The Edge is having a 6'3" 200 lb 2018 kid play down against 2019 kids...??? and you idiots wonder why people are up in arms. You really can't be serious. Is he the Edge player that broke that kids arm in MD? Everyone associated with Edge should be embarrassed.

Take a look at this picture via the link below, they have a bunch of huge kids on the team, which is 6'3"?

http://instagram.com/p/vgj0CbktxN/

I too have been swayed from "neutrality". These people from Canada are making inane arguments to justify despicable behavior.

It's #13 I think

Without identifying a particular kid, one of them looks like hrs 16.

Does the Edge hire [lacrosse] coaches or are those "13 year olds" all gigantic. Must be a lot of fun for these kids to beat up on younger players. Joy.

I have to agree with you. If my son is 6'3" 200 lbs, what justification do I have for playing younger and much smaller competition? Tournament directors are placing themselves in an untenable situation. Jeopardizing the safety of the players for money will result in ugliness.

Rather than just venting on this message board, parents who think age verification is an important issue should contact the following:

US Lacrosse - http://www.uslacrosse.org/about-us-lacrosse/contact-us.aspx

They have a greater impact on town teams but US Lacrosse & their state chapters can put some pressure on tournament directors (esp. if tournaments & teams rely on US Lacrosse insurance). Kids injured by older kids will result in lawsuits and this will impact US Lacrosse insurance.

Tournaments - https://www.google.com/#q=lacrosse+tournaments+summer

While some tournaments are starting to address the age issue, most are only focused on grade-levels (because this is what college coaches are focused on). Nevertheless, pressure by parents & teams can force tournaments to relook at this issue. If you have played the Edge team in a tournament, contact the directors of those tournament and discuss why this type of club behavior can result in injured kids. Moreover, you should also contact local tournaments because local parents & local teams will have a greater impact.

College organizations such as NCAA - http://www.ncaa.org/about/who-we-are/contact-us

Until college coaches stop recruiting 9th graders, some parents and clubs will have an incentive to game the system. College organizations need to be prodded by parents & teams and encouraged to revise their recruiting procedures.

Good point, I would empathize if the kid was 5' and 98 lbs, but he is huge compared to 2018s (even 2016s) , much less 2019. I don't see how a coach thinks he can evaluate this player's skill when he is playing kids who literally weigh half of what he does. If I were I college coach I'd want to see him play kids his size to evaluate him. Those of you with older kids know some of the players who are giant 8th graders stop skill development because they can use force, while their later blooming counterparts become faster and more skilled because they don't have size early on, most catch up and as juniors on are much better than the kid whose main attribute was size.

I predict that if the early recruiting continues coaches will find themselves most burned by kids who seem better but are just bigger and older.

Hmmmm, now if you guys actually knew the boy from watching him instead of just presuming you know everything about him and his family from what you read on this forum, you would know that he routinely plays against every grad year above him and has for a while. He also more than holds his own, even against 2015's. The fact that you guys want to split hairs between an 8th grade repeat or a kid who plans to PG, that's your problem. This summer the majority of players at Jake Reed and on elite club teams will be born in 2000, same age as him. But then again, you American guys have actually began double-reclassifying your kids now haven't you? Oh but they did 8th grade three times so it's okay. Hypocrites!

[lacrosse] coaches, LOL. If my sons team plays Edge Lacrosse this summer (and I expect they will) my advice will be simple: protect yourself by all means necessary. Do whatever you must to ensure you can compete against them. By ALL means necessary.

http://instagram.com/p/uqYYz8Etzl/

Maybe #3?

Perhaps some of the younger kids who are true 2019'ers will grow and catch up. See you Candian guys in the summer or next fall.

I'm embarrassed for the Canadian clubs that stoop to this level of programmed cheating.

I guess they just miss their Grade 13.

I am sure he's a good kid who doesn't need to play down.

It's the "plans to PG" basis of playing down that is so ludicrous to readers.

This isn't complicated. Top clubs just need to tell tournament directors that they expect graduation-year teams to actually be made of teams actually in that class or they will go to another tournament.

The idea of my taking my 2020 team and playing in 2021 divisions in 2016, on the basis that they will all be recruited by boarding schools in my state that sometimes have kids reclass or because they will PG or because they will take a "gap year" in Europe is insane. Hey, those boarding schools and Culver recruit Canadians. How about you actually reclass?

That's solid advice against Canadian box players who grow up thinking nothing of dropping the gloves inside an enclosed box. LOL

Apparently it is their 6'3 200+ D guy. He's not committed but has offers from attending camps. He is a reclassified 2019. His brother did the same thing and is going to JHU next year. [/quote]

Take a look at this picture via the link below, they have a bunch of huge kids on the team, which is 6'3"?

http://instagram.com/p/vgj0CbktxN/ [/quote]

Does the Edge hire [lacrosse] coaches or are those "13 year olds" all gigantic. Must be a lot of fun for these kids to beat up on younger players. Joy. [/quote]

[lacrosse] coaches, LOL. If my sons team plays Edge Lacrosse this summer (and I expect they will) my advice will be simple: protect yourself by all means necessary. Do whatever you must to ensure you can compete against them. By ALL means necessary. [/quote]

That's solid advice against Canadian box players who grow up thinking nothing of dropping the gloves inside an enclosed box. LOL[/quote]

Interesting comment coming from a country that pays hundreds of millions a year to watch minorities beat the snot out of each in a ring for 10 rounds.

All means necessary eh? You are a disgusting excuse for a human being!!!! And for whomever posted the picture and those pointing fingers and signalling out a kid, shame on you all. Publicly identifying a kid with pictures should be banded from this site. Whatever age he is 2019 or 2018 it does not matter,he is still a kid and does not deserve the public ridicule. Did you ever think about how this is effecting the kid and their family. We all get it, you don't agree with playing down, but at this point there is no rules against it and college coaches prefer it; therefore, the kid is doing nothing wrong. Where are the pics of all the other teams and kids that are doing it, huh?

It would take me approximately 5 seconds to change the birthdate on a scanned birth certificate. Kids should submit certificates when they first register as youth. Most parents won't cheat on a 6 year old's certificate.

So many tournies are run by organizations who strongly endorse hold backs, anticipated PG years, etc. 3D and Crabs both actively encourage it.

This is the crux of my indignation, thank you for posting. This kid should not be playing down and possess a danger to real 13 year old opponents. Shame on Edge Lacrosse for promoting this practice as a program ethos.

IF he and his parents are doing nothing wrong, then they all should smile at the camera proudly.CHEATERS LIKE TO HIDE.

I think some Long Island programs need to start putting together PG teams that will play down a year when playing out of state. Don't play any other LI teams, and then go pound the teams from out of state. Give them a taste of their own medicine. Imagine how the people in PA and MD would react to that one?? WOW...

If he s that big, why would his jrk off parents even hold him back. Seems unnecessary….

Cyber-bullying: use of information technology to repeatedly harm or harass other people in a deliberate manner. Cyber-bullying could be limited to posting rumors or gossips about a person in the internet bringing about hatred in other's minds; or it may go to the extent of PERSONALLY IDENTIFYING VICTIMS and publishing materials severely deframing and humiliating them.

But hey, by all means necessary keep teaching your kids these values all because one kid out of HUNDREDS is only doing what college coaches want him to do (AGAIN NO RULES AGAINST IT!!!!)

We all have our opinions but keep the photos and personally identifying kids out of it! Its not just wrong, it is illegal.

If I had to guess it's because he's matching ages with the jrk off parents in Maryland, Philly and Upstate NY.

Einstein: The entire team is playing against younger kids, not one kid.

Who is the poster trying so hard to steer the threat topic away from Edge Lacrosse? Any guesses?

You must be an admin for Edge. Congratulations on turning youth lacrosse into a farce. I encourage you to continue celebrating fraudulent wins against younger competition.

Sorry, nothing illegal about telling the truth ever...however, i completely agree it isn't appropriate to single kids out. Completely wrong and wish the people here would put an end to that practice.

That said, it is ironic that the people that scream the loudest that they are breaking no rules by playing younger because they will PG later are the same ones complaining that showing the picture of a kid is illegal/unfair...

Also ironic that at least one parent of a reclassed kid, clearly sees the moral wrong if all people on one team do it...

As long as you can all sleep at night...

Take a look at this picture via the link below, they have a bunch of huge kids on the team, which is 6'3"?

http://instagram.com/p/vgj0CbktxN/ [/quote]

Does the Edge hire [lacrosse] coaches or are those "13 year olds" all gigantic. Must be a lot of fun for these kids to beat up on younger players. Joy. [/quote]

[lacrosse] coaches, LOL. If my sons team plays Edge Lacrosse this summer (and I expect they will) my advice will be simple: protect yourself by all means necessary. Do whatever you must to ensure you can compete against them. By ALL means necessary. [/quote]

That's solid advice against Canadian box players who grow up thinking nothing of dropping the gloves inside an enclosed box. LOL[/quote]

Interesting comment coming from a country that pays hundreds of millions a year to watch minorities beat the snot out of each in a ring for 10 rounds. [/quote]

Fall 2014 - Edge 2019 Team (2000 Born/ U15)

We will be hosting INVITE only tryouts for the fall 2019 team. Looking for grade 9 or exceptional 8th graders to compete with us this fall. We expect this team to be very strong and compete against the top grade 8/U15 teams in North America.

Wrong! I have nothing to do with Edge Lacrosse what so ever! Just an outsider that thinks it is terribly wrong with what you are doing to this kid when it happens so many other places.

No s**t Sherlock….it's been said on this forum many times….

What has also been said many times…….. it's not just this one team that is doing it. Tournaments are filled with teams that have all re-classed kids.

But that's not the point here…point is, one kid is being pointed out in pictures over and over, slandering him and his family…

I am curious. This upcoming summer all of the club teams in Maryland, PA , Canada have gone grade base ..some to accommodate holdbacks others??. What will long island teams do about this. Arent Long island teams already at a disadvantage with grade base teams due to Dec1/Jan1 school start birthday. Maryland is Sept 1.
Does Long Island Teams have any holdbacks teams??

I still think this Edge policy of openly registering teams in younger brackets will force other clubs to follow suit in order to compete on equal ground. This will spread unless aggressively policed by tournament directors. I think the web page copy of the Edge advert for 9th graders to come try out for the 2019 team is what pushed me over the edge. They plainly use this as a marketing ploy "you will be playing against American 8th graders...."

This is so much a disgusting part of sports and Athletics. Registering an an entire team to play down is just plain wrong and disgusting. What is this teaching children? How to cheat? Means justify the end no matter how it is obtained? What kind of morals do you expect the children to have. Frankly what kind of morals do these parents have?
You can spin this anyway you want , others are doing it, PG coming up, we are reclassifying later, etc...but it is disgusting and wrong.
And we wonder why the values of many youth and adults is so self serving ..forget what is good for the whole , I am getting mine no matter what it takes. Great lessons.

Tournaments need to stop going Grad year and go stricly grade based. What grade did you just complete! I know a NH Tomohawk who was the best 2019 attack man they had and because his parents have decided that his course is going to be a PG year someday he's now on their 2020 team. Thats right from the coaches mouth too.

Why would a college coach want to see prospects playing against younger competition?

He wouldn't, but this is the environment created by early recruiting. Stop recruiting 9th grade kids and all of this stops. I do think an open practice of fielding kids one year up from their competition is absolutely wrong. I read on this forum a copied portion of the website advert from Edge lacrosse. I just can not believe these guys would advertise their 2019 team will be constituted by 9th graders. Come on guys, have you no shame? Its youth lacrosse!?!?

Regarding the reposting of team photos, once its in the Ethernet of the cyber world, it is free game. Someone from Edge must have posted those photos, correct?

It's not free game when the posting of the picture is followed up by the singling out of individual barely-teenaged kids. That's called CYBERBULLYING. "Come on guys, have you no shame? It's youth lacrosse!?!?"

What exactly was posted that you would deem "cyberbullying"? Ridiculous.

A claim of "Cyber-bullying" is out of line in this instance. No name has been cited, nothing derogatory has been posted... How can you claim any malice towards any one or multiple players? Its evident, the vitriol is aimed solely at the Edge Lacrosse program and its policies and from where I stand--with good reason.

The practice of playing against younger competition (entire team) is simply wrong. I've read the counter arguments and they simply don't hold up. "some kids do it..", "the Edge players intend to do a PG year...", "Its what college coaches want to see...". Weak reasoning for outright cheating, unless the tournament directors are aware and the opposing teams are notified before hand so the parents can decide if they want to play against older kids. Even then----WEAK.

there has been a few post which boarder the questionable but not bullying. Questions like. What was the coaches name from the 80's show Coach?
Middie or defensemen in question?

I think you may misunderstand what the Canadians are doing and why. They don't come down here to cheat and win tournaments, they come down to play the recruiting game which has very little in defined rules. They are playing the game the same way the Cabs and others are. They aren't coming down for a tournament t shirt or trophy. They have box for that.

The "why they are doing it" question never entered my mind. I couldn't care less why they are doing it, its being done and I think its wrong. Why doesn't every program just register their teams down a grade? Looking good against younger competition is pathetic practice.

I agree with your logic. Every team who will be playing them should be notified in advance of their age. The tournament director will ultimately be responsible for any injuries so I believe it will deter them from accepting their registration. There are plenty of great teams to stock tournament brackets.

Why not just have kids post their birth dates on their helmets?

Someone told me at soccer tourneys they have GPAs and SAT scores written on their arms, does anyone know if that is true?

If u think let's just say , Laxfest gets registration from Edge , do you really think they are going to tell them no ? And do really think the top LI teams would pull out ? I didn't think so.

Interesting, but I doubt it. I would laugh well maybe not laugh but sign if they put them in the same bracket as Express north. You could probably guess they will not be in the same bracket as Orange and will have to face Laxachusetts and Express before they get to Orange in the final

when did soccer players start wearing helmets with #s on them!! to funny

The fact of the matter is, it is dangerous to have a whole team play down against unsuspecting teams. So maybe the bigger clubs know Edge plays their team down, but what about the lesser known clubs from non hot bed areas?

It also makes me think that teams that play up on occasion like Crush and Express should not do so, as it could absolutely be a safety issue for these teams. That's a shame because now they will run over the 2020 division at Laxfest and end up playing one another.

I still am not sure how you can register a whole team for any year you like. Can any team just say- we will pg- so we choose to play xxxx year? Why not pg for 2 years? I know lax is mainly unregulated, but this practice seems really over the top and it would be nice for all tournament directors to set rules and enforce them. If the rule is that a team can pick their division because they will all pg- then others know in advance and can choose to join, look elsewhere or pg their team too! It sounds so over the top ridiculous when you think about soccer, hockey or baseball and how strictly they enforce rules- heck in hockey you have to get a release just to try out for another team! Then you have lax and you can choose whatever year you'd like to play. Crazy.

Where does it say that? Starting a new paragraph typically signals a change in topic. "too" funny.

Youth Lacrosse is out of control with no governing body that has any power. Why a simple age base format with cards ( like soccer) isnt done just shows what type of people are involved.. In hotbed areas I hear this constant honor the game concept, what a joke it is. No control at ages in tournaments anywhere. And the letting of kids play down is ridiculous and disgusting. Maryland letting the private school holdbacks play down at youth level is another joke. All these private schools have some type of character education to do the right thing in school. I guess getting an advantage and playing down is one .

The state of youth lacrosse is a joke. Kids and whole teams playing down to look good against younger competition? Sad, really. Why?

Governing body is weak. "Grow the game" is a nice sound bite, but reality is "Grow the kid at any cost and get a scholarship" USLacrosse stands by, whistling next to the hopkins and crabs graveyard of youth lacrosse, also known as Cordish center.

UNC, UVA and Hopkins coaches point fingers at each other, say they hate it, but do nothing. They win nothing either. Karma has a way of catching up with you

What can we, the concerned parents do? Write USLacrosse? Maybe...

What about the administrators of these colleges? They act high and mighty, with noble speeches of character, integrity and honesty when it comes to non-athletes, but their schools are destroying youth lacrosse by recruiting at an age when half the kids haven't gone through puberty. Why can't they do something?

The pursuit of $$ in football and basketball partially justifies recruiting wars, but non-revenue sports, like lacrosse? No $$, drag on athletic department, and giving school a black eye! Just say no to crazy recruiting of 8th graders and make recruiting happen after sophmore year.

I think these administrators and university presidents need to see what a joke their schools are becoming to the large section of non-recruits to make this insanity stop.

This is a perfect example of the Great Lax Age Debate:

http://www.insidelacrosse.com/article/fall-club-wrap-up-madlax/30318

First, is IL proud to feature Madlax and publish a visual reference of the player imbalances we all see every tournament? In essence, IL Editing staff is supporting such practices by featuring Madlax in a 'fall club wrap up', while featuring the disparities. The art department did a great job however. The vignette effect is pretty, it really brings out the contrast of the dark leg hair.

Second, Madlax, you couldn't find a better image? In this shot, one could actually superimpose the smaller player in the larger player's body! If you're going to promote yourselves as 'one of the top teams in the country at every graduation year', at least provide a picture that supports the statement. You may have just proven it false.

A reader's perception may very well be Madlax is great beating down the smaller players-and that is a bad way to market yourselves Madlax! Furthermore, when looking at this image, the eye immediately follows the line downward, left to right, to the smaller Thunder player. Credit goes to him, going step for step against a Madlax big gun. Thunder is being promoted, not Madlax.

Worst of all, Madlax did a disservice to one of it's talented athletes by featuring him in this light.

IN CONCLUSION, this image may help perpetuate the age vs grad year debate in the youth lax circuit. But for the purpose of this article...shame on you IL Editors & Madlax! If IL uses an image like this, make sure it's worthwhile and feature it in an exposé to help the safety of the players, the negatives of recruitment, and most importantly, honoring the game.

Agree with your points and will add that Madlax is not even in the top tier of club teams when getting kids recruited. Way down the list on numbers compared to many other clubs. Madlax is the poster child for extracting as much money as possible from gullible and uninformed parents. That is what they do the best - I'll give him that.

The photo looks like it was taken at a father/son event.

Thats funny... but true

Absolutely ridiculous. The Madlax player is at least 3 years older than the Thunder kid. Madlax should be embarrassed. If the only way you can win is to cheat-- what's the point. You obviously don't have any confidence in your coaching or player development. And when they graduate college they will be significantly older than their bosses. They should feel more stupid then than they look now.

ALSO POSTED ON CRABS THREAD:

Crabs commenters are right, take this debate to this thread.

The problem with this debate and the arguments over aged based versus school year based teams with the safety or competitive factors all taken into account is still just that, an argument. US Lacrosse is in no position to tell prep schools what to do, and no body should make rules for prep schools if they want to keep it that same that kids who repeated grades can play school sports in their grade. There isn't anything wrong with that because there are examples of youths held back for health or academic reasons, and I am a parent of a kid in that category. It is unfair to prejudice those kids, so you can't prejudice anyone including kids who do it for sports reasons.

For now the club owners run things and want grade based club teams. I am on the side of US Lacrosse best practices that club lacrosse should be age based to promote safety and equity for the participants, but that is just my argument. There are reasons why ice hockey and soccer are age based for sanctioned non-school competitions, and the winning argument wasn't fairness to make that happen it was safety. The three leading concussion incident rate sports ten years ago were football, soccer and ice hockey. Now it is football, lacrosse and soccer. Soccer has high concussion rates because of head ball collisions and goalies hitting heads on goal posts. Many goalies have started wearing head gear and the sport does debate field player head gear. But the rule to go to age based was safety, get the older versus younger kids issue off the board and do single year age based teams by rule. Ice hockey did this same thing long before soccer for the same reasons, and concussion rates in sanctioned leagues events went down substantially following that.

Lacrosse has two problems. First, growth rate of head injuries and the growth rate of soft tissue injuries at a greater rate of growth than any other sport in the last decade. The first we have to blame on the way the game is played and not the equipment, the second may or may not be a casualty of sports specialization and overuse syndrome injuries. These growth rates are also highest at the youth levels with less physically mature and developed players. Second, we don't know what the growth rate from six months ago is yet because there isn't enough data to make any valid conclusions. The advocates of grade based teams are correct, you can't prove that lacrosse is less safe today because of grade based teams and moreover last year there were age based teams with two year spreads. So the argument that a holdback kid 18 months older is moot since we used to have U-11, U-13 and U-15. Thus grade based teams could not be any less safe than a year ago and according to the birth tables and rules that say you can't reclassify over and over again because players over the age of 19 are not allowed to play high school sports. Just my opinion that those are not BAD arguments, but they are also not GOOD arguments in support of grade based club or recreation lacrosse.

What isn't an opinion but is a fact is that soccer and ice hockey rules bodies realized after pouring over data that single year teams are better than two-year bracket age groups for these youth contact sports and that single year age based teams are best practices. If we can accept soccer and ice hockey as a model -- and some of us again argue against that -- then lacrosse eventually goes that way. Clearly US Lacrosse pushed it and for now the club and recreation leagues pushed back and we have grade based club and recreation lacrosse leagues. For now there isn't injury rate data in yet to denounce the grade based system, and quite possibly with the prior system of two-year spread age based teams it may very well be impossible to have any looking backwards data that says "here, lacrosse is so much more unsafe today over a few years ago"...the best hope for those who want age based is that relative to ice hockey and soccer, that lacrosse is trending higher and higher with head trauma injuries, therefore there is a relative data set to make the argument from. Again just my opinion, but I do see that happening and weakening the grade based system to a point where clubs and recreation leagues will need to go to U-8, U-9, U-10, etc. My argument is that lacrosse is not a large or mature enough sport to come to its own fair bargains, and it also has a very weak governing body in US Lacrosse, so the time it will take to sort this out with safety data versus other comparible head impact trauma risk sports like soccer and ice hockey in the years to come. I don't see this happening anytime soon because the science needs years of data with cases of head injuries to make a different conclusion.

The Madlax player is 2018 with a fall 1999 birthday. He has not been held back and does not play down, but he is very big. I'm not a fan of the grade based system, but calling a team or a particular kid a cheater based on your uninformed assessment of an online photograph is offensive.

I am the just prior poster, see prior post. You can always find big 13 year olds and small 13 year olds, etc. for their age. If we keep it at that the worst of all worlds is this alone which we will need to accept, some kids are big for their age. I agree it is awful and classless to point at a photo of a kid and say "look at that one", especially when it is crying wolf because it isn't a held back kid. Look at this through my eyes. I have a son who repeated an early grade for health reasons. He is nail skinny but over 6'0 as an eighth grader now and the searing and unwelcomed looks we see and parent comments we hear are sickening. If they just put him with kids his birth year, he'd still be a tree next to a kid like in that photo, but at least it would disarm this problem of cheaters, doing this to be recruited, etc. Level it out and make it fair. Soccer parents aren't complaining and their kids are being recruited early by NCAA coaches who are not complaining either. Simple and fair.

We know Madlax and that 2018 team, and they are a terrific team with great players. That said, I do have one salty comment for that program: it is YOU the club owner, coaches and parents who have promoted these kids as 14 year-old public figures. Two Madlax early commits are trending like Justin Bieber now on Twitter from lacrosse recruiting journalists, camps, clinics and events guys. Little kids have Twitter accounts headlining their school and graduation year...and they are 9th graders and these schools are the colleges they won't attend for another 4 years! And now you'd like to jam toothpaste back into the tube and whine that people get on anonymous forums or other internet mediums to aim negatives at a kid? I share the disgust in the commentary onto minors, but give no credibility to the Madlax, Crabs, Sweetlax, etc. "victim nation" when it bites back. The fault is plainly on the club and the parents straight to the ground.

Very true. But in NY , fall 1999, is 2017!

Why wouldn't a program director reject the registration of a team that's practices could jeopardize the safety of unknowing younger players and then hold the director's accountable? There are PLENTY of "elite" or top tier programs to register for a tournament. I certainly wouldn't take on the liability nor could I sleep at night if a kid was seriously injured and I couldhave prevented it.

MD is a fall date cut for school years, so a fall 1999 kid is a 2018. In some other states like NY it is the calendar year cut. Again, the negatives at this kid are unfair but again they were hard earned by the public attention clubs like Madlax and prep schools and the families crave for 14 year olds. You put your kids in a circus ring don't be disappointed when this happens.

glad someone who knows the kid could set the record straight. there are many valid arguments for age vs grade. But making false assumptions and exaggerating to make your points cheapens the argument and comes across as whining.

I respect your points, and the best route is for your club owner to answer to you the customers. Tell him to not sign up for tournaments that will allow grade based youth teams. If you are an elite club, there are always going to be other elite tournaments. The tournament organizers will shift very fast if they lost Sweetlax, LI Express, Team 91, Dukes, top NE clubs WCS from their tournament draws. The unfortunate truth is the loudest cheerleaders are guys like your club owner who support the reclassified schemes and sign you up for it. The consumers need to say no. If they won't for the sake of having their kid on an elite team it doesn't work and we can't complain about it for now.

A fall 1999 birthday is 2017 in ny. So who screams cheater????

What is wrong with you NY parents???? In almost all other states the cut-off for entering Kindergarten is 8/31 (or 9/1) so if you kid is not 5 by 8/31 or 9/1, they are NOT ALLOWED to start K. That does NOT make a player will a fall birthday a CHEATER. No idea why NY has a school cut-off of 12/31. This is the problem. Not the other states... Get a grip

So why then would Team 91 early commit that was born in Oct 1999 be playing as a 2018?

I meant "tournament directors", not program directors. The people running tournaments dictate this practice. Reject registration from programs that misrepresent teams (Edge Lacrosse registering whole teams down. etc)

So what. Most of the country says a fall 1999 is 2018. Maybe you should move.

You have no idea what that kids age is. You just show your ignorance by making the above statement. Does it bother you that you are ignorant or are you just used to it and can't help yourself?

The kid was held back, the Thunder kid that is. Wanted to play for the Crabs.

Mrs. Beckwith check your own rosters before throwing stones at kids

Ty Xanders needs to do a lunatic lacrosse mommies and daddies watch list by 2015, 2016. Between the Deadspin article charaters and this thread a lot of "spots" will be off the board. Seriously, I think Ty Xanders would take this seriously and the college coaches would get a howl out of it.

LOL! Excellent idea. This site is hilarious though. I drop in from time to time to get a good laugh. Great entertainment from a bunch of truly lunatic parents. I think a Watchlist for the loons would be the most interesting article in lacrosse of all time!

3d has a new village idiot. Ryan Danehy tweeted the "reclassify" strategy tactics list. The new one is don't reclassify but verbally commit to doing a PG year. So now kids will verbally commit to prep schools sight unseen to be able to say they are committed to a college as a 14year old. And 3d advises the kids and families to do this ??

I could be wrong but wasn't this tried in the 80's and those that didn't make it to the prep school lost there spot in the college they wanted. Didn't the d2 schools benefit from these tactics in the mid to late 80's could've been sooner.

Isn't this the Edge Lacrosse explanation for registering teams down a year in tournaments? They claim the entire roster intends to PG? Very sad.

Promising to go PG 4-5 years before it is to occur should not be the basis for playing down.

Ryan Danehy
&#8207;@RPDLacrosse Re-classing can be done a few ways. You can:

1. Repeat 8th grade
2. PG

Or

3. Declare yourself a year younger on rosters w/ intent to PG

This is the type of person who should not be involved in youth lacrosse. Why don't we just try working hard and every plays straight up instead of working every angle and gaming the system. This guy is a disgrace.

Why would EXPRESS pull out ? Don't they have lots of large, left back players? ? ?

The sad thing is kids follow these clowns on Twitter and believe they are preaching a gospel on how to be a D1 recruit in lacrosse. I don't get why this sport can't just fly straight and do age based club teams and events. If a 15 year old can't hang with his peers and wants to PG, verbally fake commit to a nameless boarding school for a PG year or verbally commit to being Mormon to go off on a mission for a few years that an be his own can of issues. 15 is young, but of a kid does not have the nads to compete then daddy and club pimp ain't gonna help him overcome it by hiding in the Berkshires for a year.

Ryan Danehy and Ty Xanders should book a room for a lax bro losers reunion in Piscattaway.

Very simple tell director of tournament I will play in tournament but will not play edge, Dukes or laxachusset do to age safety issue. If you put me against them I will forfeit

I long ago remember ice hockey players who did PG years. They were great hockey players usually from Canada who needed the academic finishing year to be able to go to a good US college. The PG year had absolutely nothing to do with being a year older once at college or looking better against younger players. A lot of those guys were expected to be NHL draft picks and had bigger fish to fry in their sport. If anything it was something remedial they didn't want to do but needed to do for the admissions office to take them on. Lacrosse is not like that. Lacrosse parents will spend hundreds of thousands to buy in.

Having a few players who were held back is different than a program playing teams a division younger with the excuse of intent to PG. Just my opinion. I'm NOT in favor of these parents who hold their kids back because their kids can't cut it on the field but playing teams down without holding them back is unacceptable in my book when its systemic.

Merry Christmas to all. Lets hope Santa brings some common sense to the sport.

Add his boss too, Jamie Munro suggests this, as well. While playing D1 lax could be the be all and end all for some insane people, why anyone would want to pay $50K for a prep school for the honor is beyond my comprehension. For sure he has suggested this to families who can't really afford to do that then spend another 45K/yr at an expensive school when junior gets a 1/4 scholarship. At the end of the day older kids win tourneys, winning tourneys makes for successful clubs.

These guys have a business, it is about the business, consumers need to beware of the hype. If you are looking to a 3D for guidance on how to raise your kid or make rational decisions you are insane. They are hired to make your kid recruitable. That is their goal, not what is best for your kid, that is the decision of the parents. No one is forced, it is just suggested.

So when do performance enhancing drugs enter the picture? Or am I being naïve thinking that isn't an issue in youth lacrosse.

Most kids on my son's teams drink creatine shakes until it starts coming out their ears. We told our son whey powder in chocolate milk, which he did for a while but stopped because he is big for his age and came to realize it wasn't going to do much for him. Kids will do anything though. If a kid was faced with a decision to take steroids to make into a college prospect lacrosse player, given the irrational nature of the sport I would not be shocked if a lot of kids did it. Sad.

My new year wish is in agreement with a prior poster...I hope more rationality can enter the sport in 2015 and that kids can also get more enjoyment out of it without the sole focus of recruiting when they get to be 13.

It's still cheating all around.

Cheats the normal kids these cheaters have to play against

and

the legit kids that get passed over.

do you think the PG studs are paying $50k
dont think so!!

Boarding schools have financial aid for families needing it. Otherwise, yes the family pays up. Prep schools run like a business. There are a few basically non-academic sports academies in NE like Avon, Sailsbury and a few others like Hun and Peddie. Those for some sports will be more for sports scholarships possibly. The better NE prep schools, no. Lacrosse people give themselves more credit for being ace lax players than these schools do. Prep schools care a lot more about tuition paying good students than a sport like lacrosse.

If you are a super stud maybe not, but if you are so lame you couldn't get recruited with the kids your age then yep, probably paying full freight.

I'm guessing players like the Thompson brothers got some help because they had some financial need and were phenomenal players, not wannabes like so many whose daddys want to pay to see JR play D1 lax.

What does PG stand for?

Post Graduate is PG.

Prior poster who thinks lacrosse studs have a scholarship waiting is out of his mind if you're talking about Deerfield, Choate, etc. Those schools will go financial aid where needed but the over inflated view of how lacrosse is prized somehow by these schools is misplaced.

How can a club purposely recruit older kids for grad year teams and then register teams in the wrong age division of tournaments? Tournament management, if they are aware, should be ashamed. With all of the talented teams I see playing all summer and fall this practice should be banned.

Lol I saw the picture and most of the boys look 15 and 16. That is a joke and they chest pump, I would be embarrassed. I'm sorry if you look at a real 2019 team they look a lot younger.

I have a 7th grader and he'd look unsafe and foolish on the field with those kids. I am sure Edge has some good players, and they're good kids but this is another example of lacrosse club guys and daddies running wild. This dodging around to get kids on the field with others so much younger and smaller is a disgrace. This is not high school or college where kids can handle high school varsity as 9th graders or play JV. My kid is a normal 7th grader and he does not have a choice to opt out of playing these kids unless he quits lacrosse. Is anyone else's middle school kid rapidly listing interest in lacrosse for all the wrong reasons? Mine is. My youngest already quit because he likes two other sports more and that had a lot to do with a lunatic U-11 coach and some sideline daddy coaches berating the boys. This sport won't grow if this is how it goes.

Unfortunately, it is the same in all youth sports. Running from lacrosse won't change that fact. Youth sports is the product of how insane this generation of parents are now. We all have to deal with it in our own way though.

6' 3" 8th grader, HELD BACK BY PARENTS, who should be in H. S. ? ? ?

Would be hysterical if it wasn't so pathetic.

What kind of nut would hold a young man this size back to compete with much smaller kids ? Is this what college coaches are focussed on now ? Is this what this sport has come down to ?

It is pathetic. It will reach a point where lacrosse honeymoon is over as a growth sport and kids who are good athletes will go to real sports that have more scholarship programs and money.

Remember how exciting it was when Michigan went varsity, then a few other programs added on in Furman, U Richmond? It seemed like lacrosse would roll on. No D1 new programs follow through, no momentum in the big $$ conferences like SEC and Pac 12. No follow through in ACC. Why not Miami and Fla State and Ga Tech? Those are all high growth youth game areas? No CU Boulder no USC or UCLA or even a UC Irvine. Those are all wildly popular areas. I think college administrators are laughing at the thought of starting a lacrosse program. The only rumored new D1 program now is College of Charleston, a.k.a. CoC, a.k.a. I couldn't get into Clemson but my parents have $60K a year for me to go somewhere for 4 years. A better question than is this what the sport has come to would be is this all lacrosse will be? A country club kid sport with some socially [lacrosse] parental additives from places like Canada or Baltimore where kids are 20 before they go to college?

Hmmmm, I thought schools like Florida and Florida st in the south. Arizona and Stanford out west and a few big Midwest schools were looking to turn their club programs into varsity programs. And by the way wasn't this sport always a country club kid sport mixed with a few blue collar kids. So I am not sure what you are getting at.

The post makes a point. Why no D1 growth? I find it incredible still no SEC conference teams and no added ACC teams. I've been hearing for 5 years now about all those Florida and California universities taking their club team up to varsity but no movement. Lacrosse will never be interesting or exciting to a lot of kids unless there are more D1 opportunities with real scholarship money. Is anyone's kid growing up dreaming of someday getting a scholarship to Furman ?!?

The big schools have problems starting new Varsity mens programs because of title 9. I'm sure many schools would be willing to start a mens varsity lacrosse program but don't want to start a new varsity womans program.

The big schools have problems starting new Varsity mens programs because of title 9. I'm sure many schools would be willing to start a mens varsity lacrosse program but don't want to start a new varsity womans program. [/quote]

This makes no sense, the cost of starting a women's program pales in comparison to starting a men's program. There has to be more to it than simply not wanting a women's program. There are probably 75-80 more women's team in the NCAA right now.

Regarding D1 lax programs, I think Title 9 forced many colleges to drop Men's lacrosse. So, starting with the following schools, lacrosse simply needs to recapture schools who dropped lacrosse!!:

Boston College, Michigan State, Gannon University, Morgan State, UConn, UNH, Butler, Radford, William & Mary, NC State, Bowling Green, William & Mary, etc.

Youth programs like Edge lacrosse simply need to be met head on by tourney directors who refuse their registration unless they play in their proper age group. It's really that simple.

Title IV isn't sport for sport - it's participation. So schools that have football need to balance that out with girls participation with another sport. A good example is Vanderbilt and BC.

I would add that the lack of new D1 programs has ZERO to do with whether youth lax is organized by grade, age, holdbacks etc. Colleges that add lax do so because they believe it will affect admissions and fundraising in a positive way. To big SEC football schools the addition of men's lax would require the addition of 40+ spots for woman's sports - and all the scholarship money, coaches salaries, travel etc. for them to be competitive - because the Alabama's of the world wouldn't add lax to be a bottom feeder. On the other hand a small private college that costs $50k/yr adding men's and woman's lacrosse would mean 80-100 spots filled with mostly rich kids whose parents can pay full freight. You know the country club set. So there's plenty of new D3 teams being added every year to cater the all the parents that spend $2k/yr for lax starting in 3rd grade.

The age thing has nothing to do with whether D1 athletic directors entertain lacrosse. There are only two reasons for a major conference school to add a sport. You can be competitive to win conference or NCAA and then money. If lacrosse can add some cache to alumni pride on the giving side or attract full paying students. Lacrosse is more the second. One wonders why ACC SEC or Pac 12 schools are not moving...at all. Maybe the D1 administrators see lacrosse as better suited for a club sport rather than a varsity one. Same tuition paying kids and a lower budget to support them. The reasons for not going have more to do with dollars than with making the numbers work on the women's side. Every athletic department is happy to add women's sports. Those programs have higher graduation rates and team GPAs across the board and generally have fewer off the field problems. Boys lacrosse is known for trouble, whether that is fair or not.

You guys crack me up. Nobody cares about this issue except you deranged LI dads.

Deranged because you guys hold back your kids for athletic advantage, and it's wrong!!!

Well, using THREE exclamation points really shows me how serious the issue is. Really.

And no, my son didn't reclassify. But he's in HS and plays against kids younger and older than me. It's not that big a deal.

Except to Sal from Huntington.

Is not

YES YOU ARE LOSER PARENTS, DEFENSIVE KID FROM JERSEY, PLAYED FOR TERPS RECLASSIFIED THE KID IS 6'1, HEY DAD I LOST ALL RESPECT FOR YOU, YOU ARE A FING CHEATER.

The "all caps" really drives your point home. We'll done.

Any chance you drive a Trans-Am?

Iroc like my LI buddies.

The reason the LI club teams aren't making more of a stink and allow Edge Ontario and other with reclassified teams to enter grade based tournaments is because their clubs are also full of holdbacks. Go ask Legacy about their 6 ft. 7th grade attackman who is a year older....or Crush and Express about their holdbacks. Don't count on the clubs to stop the practice anytime soon is my point, because they all do it. People come on here and cry about Edge but their own clubs do the same thing, although perhaps not as open and unapologetically as Edge. It is wrong whether done in Canada or here on lovely Long Island. And it is not about not wanting to "test yourself", "compete against kids older as you will need to in HS" blah blah blah. I just don't want my 5' 2", 100lb 7th grader getting his arm broken by some 6 ft 190lb cheater.....

Italian [lacrosse] Out Cruising.

I drove a 5.0 Mustang, do I count as a LI cry baby?

My son is an 8th grader, 5'11" and about 155 lbs. Over the summer he was on the bigger side for kids his age as soon as Fall ball started he was middle of the pack to even small (yes we did play Edge Lacrosse). I was absolutely fine with him playing against bigger, older kids but when I knew they were older before agreeing to play. He had been asked to play with an older team, so I knew what he would be up against. When his team played Edge Lacrosse, I had no idea they were older but I could see they were not just taller but also "filled out"....beefier, more mature physically. The problem I see is some of the kids on his team are small, even tiny and because there is an age difference, its really not fair or safe for them to be playing against older, bigger, faster kids.

One solution? Why doesn't every program agree to register their teams in a younger bracket across the board? Pre-empting the clubs registering all of their teams down a division (Edge..who else?).

How did edge play in dicks this past week if that is an age based tourney?lost to igloo in the final.

They encourage their older players to play down, not U11 because they aren't in recruiting ages. They clearly state on their website that this practice is recommended for their students to get recognition for recruiting purposes.

You LI dads are obsessed over nothing. The entire lacrosse community outside of STRONG ISLAND laughs at you.

They say that about the scam artist that laughs all the way to the bank... enjoy the laughing- cheaters will be cheaters and we still win playing the older kids that can not make it with their aged peers- after all- that is the only reason why you would repeat- no? If they could- they would stay right where they were meant to be.

Lax, the only sport where a 5'7" suburban dad can actually dream his son may make it big. Lol- a partial scholarship and bragging rights.

Except it's not cheating. God, you uneducated LI dads are a riot.

Your kid sucks on age so you and the loser mom leave him back,to become a social misfit freak, his claim to fame will be buying booze in 10th grade, with a beard. LOSERS

Awww... do not feel badly, your son needed to repeat? I heard they may start to allow you to drop two years- that might work for him if one year does not. You might have to do it anyway- I heard full teams are dropping a year- that will take away your son's edge- gee that would stink for your kid.

Why would anyone look down upon anyone trying to ensure fair play is adhered to. The lacrosse community can not restrict parents from actually holding their kids back. Its an insane practice for athletic advantages. But, the athletic community can force clubs like Edge to play their teams in the age appropriate divisions in tournaments.

Why would anyone deride parents stressing fair play? Playing teams down an age group is shameful.

Holding back a kid for whatever reason is wrong. What does that teach the kid? that it is ok to cheat in life, real class act some of these parents are. My son Has been playing up a grade since he has been in 7th grade not down, if you want them to get better you play up not down. What is he gonna learn by beating players that aren't as good as an older kid. Tisk Tisk. Shame on you

No, my son didn't reclassify, you moron.

Seriously, your paranoia/insecurities are off the charts.

I guess he'll learn all that and more when he takes an ivy spot. The end will justify the means.

It's the definition of cheating

cheat - act unfairly in order to gain an advantage, especially in a game or examination

That is from the dictionary. Can not really debate this?

Insecurities? I didn't use any name calling sir. It's just the facts- you only reclass if you are not good enough to play with your own peers. There is no other reason to do so. Can you name one?

I would beg, borrow and steal and cheat to better my child's future

And that says it all about what type of person you are. Teach kids to cheat instead of working hard to get ahead.

Reclassifying is not breaking a single rule. Some families do it because their son isn't doing well academically. Some do it for maturity/emotional reasons. Some do it purely for an athletic benefit.

Get over it. If you had your way, there would be a freshman, sophomore, junior and senior lacrosse team. Nobody cares about this except Bizaaro Strong Island Internet tough guys.

So you would knock over a liquor store at gunpoint if it meant your kid could play lax at a D1 school? You don't mean that....so stop talking like a dope.

Mom here on LI. I am not over it and never will be.

It is true what has been written about in history. You raise your children differently in the south.

Up here, on LI, we raise our children to work hard in school, practice, train and respect their coaches and teammates.

We do not need to cheat to give our children an advantage.

Continue to have luncheons, tea parties, socials, BBQ's with your buddies and your wives and keep telling yourselves what you are doing to your sons is OK with the rest of the country.

That way you can sleep at night.

Guaranteed when your sons move up here to the big city, after sj fisishes JR. College, he will be embarrassed to tell his associates he was 16 years old the day he stepped on his HS lacrosse field as a freshman.

Reclassifying is only a very temporary advantage, then the real world comes crashing down and then what do you do as a parent? Kids need to learn how to over come adversity, deal with difficult situations and work on their own to succeed. Mom and Dad manipulating reality, if only temporarily, is a sad lesson to teach a child as they mature. Forget all of the excuses, reclassifying is pathetic and even worse are the programs that don't even reclassify. They just promise the entire team will PG and play down against younger competition (see Edge Lacrosse et al). That's even worse.

That's what you don't get dummy. It's not about the lacrosse. It's about using lacrosse to get access to otherwise unattainable academic opportunities which change a life trajectory and potentially genet ions. If repeating 8th grade gives my kid a better shot at an ivy or duke then yep I will do it.

Before I address the banality of this overused, broad sweeping catch all excuse of yours; I should qualify that I am the father of an age/class appropriate D1commited player. He has a 96.6 average in the 10th grade and is in all honors classes. Yes; he is rather disciplined and successful and he is from Stong Island. He works his [lacrosse] off on and off of the field.

Now then; on to the dissection of your extremely compelling suggestion that reclassifying is not breaking any rules and to then...get over it.

Let us first analyze the claim that some do it if their child is not doing well academically. What type of parent would even choose to do so and then continue to allow the child to play a sport that is clearly taking valuable study time away from said challenged student? Is it better to say "we held him back and he still plays lax" or would it be better to just eliminate all extracurricular activities that may be a distraction and keep the child in their proper class and do a better job in parenting and supervising this child academically?

Decisions to do the former are purely ego driven choices of the parents and is an example of poor parenting at best.

To reclassify for emotional and or maturity reasons is replete with myriad reasons to not even be playing lax, and focusing more the child's inherent developmental needs. Clearly group activities and sports, as well as other group activities, may have a role in this type of child's growth, but is beyond this forum to expand upon fully; and the absurd idea that a parent might still yet have the ego driven decision to hold ones kid back and pressure him with the physical and emotional demands of competitive sports such as lax is purely irresponsible on multiple levels.

the hold back for purely athletic reasons is, by definitions stated in this thread earlier, as being consistent with the "cheating" word that so frightens your type that you would rather glady hide behind the labeling of the child as emotionally unprepared or having academic deficiencies before admitting to the fact that your child needs to cheat in order to compete. That label so frightens you all.

I'll repeat: cheat in order to compete.

This has become the path for so many of your ilk that it is approaching viral expansion proportions and you have all become numb and comfortable with the notion that it's ok to do if others are as well. Great character flaws on display for all to see, and we all do see it.

Here on Strong Island, at least, it has yet to become so prevalent that we would all look the other way.

Our kids have been and will always be successful against the cheaters for years and years. Their skill sets have yet to be surpassed by those of the cheating nations down south which always makes it fun for us to watch our players run circles around the loafing oversized hold back cheaters.

Their successes gained while playing true to age and respecting the principles that hard work and practice pays off carries over into their post school professions and it is these qualities that we strive to instill in our kids which ensure that these values are upheld for future generations to come.

Stong Island ethics trumps DMV area cheating every time.

Thus, as you have so eloquently stated; "get over it" Our boys don't need to cheat to compete.

Here is what you don't get: if your kid isn't up to par academically to achieve IVY standards and the required academic index; then your hold back intentions are wrought with disillusionment. Just because an IVY shows interest does not mean that your middle of the class kid will get in; so keep an eye on that community college as that is where he will end up if you plan on winning a lottery ticket without the grades to support it.

Better off spending your lax money on tutors for junior if you feel IVY is unattainable without lax.

Hope your son is as good if not better than the guys who ended up playing on the US team or are playing on a MLL team for him to take an IVY spot. But it is ok to dream i guess and give false hope

VERY WELL SAID, my fellow Strong Islander.

I am asking permission to cut and paste this post as a response to the hold back, cheating parents who will defend their position.

If you get too wordy you lose them. Their motto- if you can't make the cut, play with the younger kids. That's the bottom line- no other reason to do so. Call it what you want- not cheating, giving an advantage etc- bottom line though- if you can't cut it- drop a year and see if you fair better. GL to the kids whose parents felt they couldn't make the cut. God forbid they still haven't by Junior yr- talk about pressure.

In Maryland the holdback/reclassify is out of control. In the last two years all club youth lacroose went grade base to accomdate this disgusting aspect of holding kids back in sports.
The private schools are the engine as few public schools hold back kids unless its absolutely needed. MIAA schools are rift with these holdbacks. I personally know of one MIAA school grade that has over half the boys in it heldback!And it is common at many others. Many of the elite MIAA HS teams have many holdbacks/reclassify on them. Basically college freshman going against HS players. It will only get worst in MD, not better as more parents see the effect of holding your child back for an advantage. #1 MD club Crabs are the king of holdbacks and everyone wants to play for them , especially MIAA kids.

You sound like a total dbag

The truth hurts doesn't it?

Don't worry. Keep telling yourself that leaving your academically sound son back in the 8th grade, making him repeat a year of school that he successfully mastered, is OK.

You will be able to sleep better at night that way. No need to worry about his future as a real man.

He will just bully his way around, cheat his boss, stab his co-workers in the back, and when he is brought to HR, he can call you and your wife to speak to the VP in charge and let her know you allowed this to happen when your son was 13yrs old, so why is it not OK now.

Then you can tell the President of the company how she should change the rules in order for your son to complete his work assignment in a timely manner or better yet, ask to have his job description refitted to better suit your sons underachieving skill level.

There is always the mail cart to push. You have made sure Prescott is able to knock down the present worker in the mail room, the guy with 3 years experience, the one working to support his family, pay his mortgage, contributing to society everyday of his life, happily, with a smile for each department secretary he delivers mail to.

"Prescott can deliver the mail, you just watch and see."

Hyperbole much?

Please do, fellow strong islander, please do.

It has been scientifically proven that the youngest kids in any grouping by age do the worst.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...tion_UEFA_youth_tournaments_2010.pdf.jpg

The same pattern has been seen in soccer, baseball, and hockey.

From the data shown, the only "fair" thing to do is break up the leagues by the month the kids are born in. It might involve a lot more travel to pull all these leagues together, but anything else is cheating the younger kids born near the end of the age cut off.

You are so naive. Your straight A little Johnny isn't getting into an ivy or duke without lax. Btw, look at the rosters for those schools and check the birthdays. Vast majority are hold backs. Better prepared for lax and academics.

Perfect post, thank you. I am yet to hear a valid argument against age based club teams and events. Reclassify for whatever reason and be a freshman again or later, but for club you should play your birth year without complaints. I am yet to hear or meet a parent of a reclassified kid who does not think his kid is a D1 level player. Well, D1 level talents should have no troubles at all hanging with their age year peers in club events.

Well said & well written!

The vast majority of parents in CT agree completely with your comments.

Here is what you don't get: if your kid isn't up to par academically to achieve IVY standards and the required academic index; then your hold back intentions are wrought with disillusionment. Just because an IVY shows interest does not mean that your middle of the class kid will get in; so keep an eye on that community college as that is where he will end up if you plan on winning a lottery ticket without the grades to support it.

Better off spending your lax money on tutors for junior if you feel IVY is unattainable without lax. [/quote]

You are so naive. Your straight A little Johnny isn't getting into an ivy or duke without lax. Btw, look at the rosters for those schools and check the birthdays. Vast majority are hold backs. Better prepared for lax and academics. [/quote]

your ignorance on this matter is epic, Mr. Cheater.

Do you really think your academically sub-par, hold back stands a chance against an age on academic and lax stud getting in? You are a fool.

You are dismissed from this class on reality.

(oh and btw; mine is already in; sorry to burst your bubble...did it all on his own and no cheating needed, thank you very much!)

enjoy your lottery chase of a pipe dream, cheater. get ready for 13th grade when your hold back doesn't cut the mustard

You are so naive. Your straight A little Johnny isn't getting into an ivy or duke without lax. Btw, look at the rosters for those schools and check the birthdays. Vast majority are hold backs. Better prepared for lax and academics. [/quote]

your ignorance on this matter is epic, Mr. Cheater.

Do you really think your academically sub-par, hold back stands a chance against an age on academic and lax stud getting in? You are a fool.

You are dismissed from this class on reality.

(oh and btw; mine is already in; sorry to burst your bubble...did it all on his own and no cheating needed, thank you very much!)

enjoy your lottery chase of a pipe dream, cheater. get ready for 13th grade when your hold back doesn't cut the mustard

[/quote] you mean 14th

I assume you are directing this drivel towards someone from Maryland. Couple of thoughts:

1. Maryland is not "the South"

2. I guess "luncheons, tea parties, socials, BBQ's with your buddies and your wives" are unique to Maryland (and "the South")

3. You must be a horrible lay.