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Posted By: lax516 Bypassing Middle School Lax for Club Team - 01/30/13 05:08 PM
From what I understand in Soccer these days, the trend is for the best players to bypass your school teams in favor of your club team. I guess the thinking is playing with the best players and having more productive training will improve accelerate a players development and thus increase their opportunities to play in the future.
Will lacrosse go in this direction? As anyone who's child plays on a competitive club team can attest. Going from club back to middle school sure seems like a waste of time for the best kids. These middle school coaches are trying to teach 35-40 kids, which creates a tremendous amount of standing around, not to mention districts and the state being more interested in participation % than competition.
If some of these club teams or private coaches had a quality team 4-5x a week for 1.5- 2 hours can you imagine how fast they would progress?
I'm sure this has been discussed within the community and I am now starting to wonder if club/ private lacrosse would be more productive than the public schools programs.
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Bypassing Middle School Lax for Club Team - 01/30/13 06:06 PM
Originally Posted by lax516
From what I understand in Soccer these days, the trend is for the best players to bypass your school teams in favor of your club team. I guess the thinking is playing with the best players and having more productive training will improve accelerate a players development and thus increase their opportunities to play in the future.
Will lacrosse go in this direction? As anyone who's child plays on a competitive club team can attest. Going from club back to middle school sure seems like a waste of time for the best kids. These middle school coaches are trying to teach 35-40 kids, which creates a tremendous amount of standing around, not to mention districts and the state being more interested in participation % than competition.
If some of these club teams or private coaches had a quality team 4-5x a week for 1.5- 2 hours can you imagine how fast they would progress?
I'm sure this has been discussed within the community and I am now starting to wonder if club/ private lacrosse would be more productive than the public schools programs.


Interesting observation. In our town the Middle Schhol program is the same as PAL. No cut and equal playing time. At what point do you cull the herd. I'm all for kumbaya but at some point if little Johnny can't play it's time to give up the sport. Our high school program suffers because of this system.
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Bypassing Middle School Lax for Club Team - 01/30/13 06:11 PM
Originally Posted by lax516
From what I understand in Soccer these days, the trend is for the best players to bypass your school teams in favor of your club team. I guess the thinking is playing with the best players and having more productive training will improve accelerate a players development and thus increase their opportunities to play in the future.
Will lacrosse go in this direction? As anyone who's child plays on a competitive club team can attest. Going from club back to middle school sure seems like a waste of time for the best kids. These middle school coaches are trying to teach 35-40 kids, which creates a tremendous amount of standing around, not to mention districts and the state being more interested in participation % than competition.
If some of these club teams or private coaches had a quality team 4-5x a week for 1.5- 2 hours can you imagine how fast they would progress?
I'm sure this has been discussed within the community and I am now starting to wonder if club/ private lacrosse would be more productive than the public schools programs.


Absolutely agree. Same for most JV and High Schools too! The problem is who would the clubs play? there just arent that many that would have the critical mass of kids so that you could have a 14 game schedule comparable to what the schools have.
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Bypassing Middle School Lax for Club Team - 01/30/13 06:23 PM
Originally Posted by lax516
From what I understand in Soccer these days, the trend is for the best players to bypass your school teams in favor of your club team. I guess the thinking is playing with the best players and having more productive training will improve accelerate a players development and thus increase their opportunities to play in the future.
Will lacrosse go in this direction? As anyone who's child plays on a competitive club team can attest. Going from club back to middle school sure seems like a waste of time for the best kids. These middle school coaches are trying to teach 35-40 kids, which creates a tremendous amount of standing around, not to mention districts and the state being more interested in participation % than competition.
If some of these club teams or private coaches had a quality team 4-5x a week for 1.5- 2 hours can you imagine how fast they would progress?
I'm sure this has been discussed within the community and I am now starting to wonder if club/ private lacrosse would be more productive than the public schools programs.


I know on Long Island many school districts pull up their best middle school players to jv/varsity for that very reason. If your school does not maybe you should look into it. It is a tremendous advantage, but keep in mind there is a rigourous NYS physical test that they must pass before tryouts. Best of luck.
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Bypassing Middle School Lax for Club Team - 01/30/13 06:57 PM
Originally Posted by lax516
From what I understand in Soccer these days, the trend is for the best players to bypass your school teams in favor of your club team. I guess the thinking is playing with the best players and having more productive training will improve accelerate a players development and thus increase their opportunities to play in the future.
Will lacrosse go in this direction? As anyone who's child plays on a competitive club team can attest. Going from club back to middle school sure seems like a waste of time for the best kids. These middle school coaches are trying to teach 35-40 kids, which creates a tremendous amount of standing around, not to mention districts and the state being more interested in participation % than competition.
If some of these club teams or private coaches had a quality team 4-5x a week for 1.5- 2 hours can you imagine how fast they would progress?
I'm sure this has been discussed within the community and I am now starting to wonder if club/ private lacrosse would be more productive than the public schools programs.


They're already doing it in Maryland, the clubs have a spring season. Players are permitted to play both rec/travel and club but when conflict arise, clubs take priority. Look at a club like M&D on the girl's side, already a pretty tough club. The elementary and MS teams now practice and play together year round. Looking at likely 60 practices and 60 games/year. Imagine how well the kids will play together, and look, when they hit recruiting years
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Bypassing Middle School Lax for Club Team - 01/30/13 07:51 PM
If the current trend continues, it seems likely that the best players will forgo middle schools teams for club teams. Perhaps it will even extend to high school teams. My kid plays for a good club team and I think this trend is really unfortunate. High school lacrosse were some of my best memories. I really wish everyone would step back and let the kids be kids and enjoy their middle school and high school teams playing alongside their friends from their towns in front of local student. Don't mean to get on a soapbox. These are just my humble opinions.
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Bypassing Middle School Lax for Club Team - 01/30/13 08:35 PM
Based on some of the posts on the 2017 and 2018 thread, some players might be bypassing high school and go straight to D1!!!
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Bypassing Middle School Lax for Club Team - 01/30/13 08:57 PM
great thread. Glad that others see this through similar eyes

I am positive that Playing "down" with the jr high team is very frustrating for my son after coming in from year long practices and games with his club to be with kids who cannot throw or catch very well at all.
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Bypassing Middle School Lax for Club Team - 01/30/13 09:19 PM
Originally Posted by Anonymous
If the current trend continues, it seems likely that the best players will forgo middle schools teams for club teams. Perhaps it will even extend to high school teams. My kid plays for a good club team and I think this trend is really unfortunate. High school lacrosse were some of my best memories. I really wish everyone would step back and let the kids be kids and enjoy their middle school and high school teams playing alongside their friends from their towns in front of local student. Don't mean to get on a soapbox. These are just my humble opinions.


I think 99% if parents who played school sports loved the experience and cherish the memories. A distinct memory I have is that the best kids played and most others watched, the 5th qtr was for developing kids. These days the game is for everyone and the 5th qtr is for the more competitive kids. It's just not the experience it was.
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Bypassing Middle School Lax for Club Team - 01/30/13 09:46 PM
I suppose there are very weak school teams out there, but where I live there is a select team for 7th and a select team for 8th, and then a combined 7/8th team for the next players down. Anyone taking their son off the select grade team -- with 4 or 5 practices a week + games, all of which are already paid for by your taxes -- just to play with maybe one or two "better" players on a club and pay out the nose for that privilege -- would be viewed as insane.

And considering the middle school program is the pipeline to the high school team, pulling him could have a negative impact on his future prospects within that system.

I also believe the club programs will lose ground even for the summer ... each year another group of school district coaches form "school"/town summer programs, and there has been movement off the club teams on to those town select squads. Parents are tiring of the high club fees, and the summer programs being run by the local school coaches are generally cheaper (not always, but far from the most expensive). This trend will continue as local coaches will continue jumping on the summer fees bandwagon, and parents will want to make those connections.



Posted By: Anonymous Re: Bypassing Middle School Lax for Club Team - 01/30/13 11:09 PM
I don't know that most school districts pull up from the middle school teams. I know it happens, but I think that it is more the exception than the rule. I have seen an exceptional 8th grader start, and do well, but it is rarely on a really competitive team (ie: Farmingdale or Garden City... just to name a few). I have also seen that same girl play age appropriate club and not score a goal. My daughters school dist does not allow 8th grader to play up in the High School unless that sport is not offered in the middle school.
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Bypassing Middle School Lax for Club Team - 01/30/13 11:15 PM
2 words for you "Missy Franklin"... Nuff said.
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Bypassing Middle School Lax for Club Team - 01/31/13 02:01 AM
Are Catholic or private middle schools any different? Any insight would be appreciated.
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Bypassing Middle School Lax for Club Team - 01/31/13 02:08 AM
Originally Posted by Anonymous
I don't know that most school districts pull up from the middle school teams. I know it happens, but I think that it is more the exception than the rule. I have seen an exceptional 8th grader start, and do well, but it is rarely on a really competitive team (ie: Farmingdale or Garden City... just to name a few). I have also seen that same girl play age appropriate club and not score a goal. My daughters school dist does not allow 8th grader to play up in the High School unless that sport is not offered in the middle school.

I think 8th graders who get pulled up to varsity are truly few and far between, and having coached h.s. for quite a few years I can tell you in my experience they should be. They are the elite athletes, often in many sports.
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Bypassing Middle School Lax for Club Team - 01/31/13 02:11 AM
Thats s slippery slope. DOes the Varsity coach play the better player of the kid who paid him over the summer




Originally Posted by ProtonPower
I suppose there are very weak school teams out there, but where I live there is a select team for 7th and a select team for 8th, and then a combined 7/8th team for the next players down. Anyone taking their son off the select grade team -- with 4 or 5 practices a week + games, all of which are already paid for by your taxes -- just to play with maybe one or two "better" players on a club and pay out the nose for that privilege -- would be viewed as insane.

And considering the middle school program is the pipeline to the high school team, pulling him could have a negative impact on his future prospects within that system.

I also believe the club programs will lose ground even for the summer ... each year another group of school district coaches form "school"/town summer programs, and there has been movement off the club teams on to those town select squads. Parents are tiring of the high club fees, and the summer programs being run by the local school coaches are generally cheaper (not always, but far from the most expensive). This trend will continue as local coaches will continue jumping on the summer fees bandwagon, and parents will want to make those connections.



Posted By: Anonymous Re: Bypassing Middle School Lax for Club Team - 01/31/13 02:19 AM
Originally Posted by ProtonPower
I suppose there are very weak school teams out there, but where I live there is a select team for 7th and a select team for 8th, and then a combined 7/8th team for the next players down. Anyone taking their son off the select grade team -- with 4 or 5 practices a week + games, all of which are already paid for by your taxes -- just to play with maybe one or two "better" players on a club and pay out the nose for that privilege -- would be viewed as insane.

And considering the middle school program is the pipeline to the high school team, pulling him could have a negative impact on his future prospects within that system.

I also believe the club programs will lose ground even for the summer ... each year another group of school district coaches form "school"/town summer programs, and there has been movement off the club teams on to those town select squads. Parents are tiring of the high club fees, and the summer programs being run by the local school coaches are generally cheaper (not always, but far from the most expensive). This trend will continue as local coaches will continue jumping on the summer fees bandwagon, and parents will want to make those connections.

That's great they split it up like that. how many boys to they carry on the select 7 and 8 teams?

Originally Posted by Anonymous
Are Catholic or private middle schools any different? Any insight would be appreciated.


Catholic middle schools may or may not even have sports. If they do they are limited to baseball, basketball type sports. They are a situation when club ball would be a necessity.
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Bypassing Middle School Lax for Club Team - 01/31/13 02:55 AM
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Thats s slippery slope. DOes the Varsity coach play the better player of the kid who paid him over the summer


Huge conflict of interest for a teacher/coach. There are several school districts that are currently investigating conflicts of interest for current coaches who also run travel programs. Both boys and girls. Finally some people are starting to look at what is a terrible conflict of interest that has a negative effect on the kids involved.
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Bypassing Middle School Lax for Club Team - 01/31/13 02:57 AM
Originally Posted by LaxMom1310
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Are Catholic or private middle schools any different? Any insight would be appreciated.


Catholic middle schools may or may not even have sports. If they do they are limited to baseball, basketball type sports. They are a situation when club ball would be a necessity.

You're dating yourself, almost all Catholic schools have soccer & lax programs for 7/8 graders and there are a few that can compete with almost any public school program - these are a lot of the same kids that wind up in Chaminade, St Anthony's, Kellenberg, Mercy, etc
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by LaxMom1310
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Are Catholic or private middle schools any different? Any insight would be appreciated.


Catholic middle schools may or may not even have sports. If they do they are limited to baseball, basketball type sports. They are a situation when club ball would be a necessity.

You're dating yourself, almost all Catholic schools have soccer & lax programs for 7/8 graders and there are a few that can compete with almost any public school program - these are a lot of the same kids that wind up in Chaminade, St Anthony's, Kellenberg, Mercy, etc


I was just at St Patricks open house on Sunday and it was actually one thing we were most curious about. I went to St Mary's in East Islip also they didn't have it either.
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Bypassing Middle School Lax for Club Team - 01/31/13 01:05 PM
Kellenberg Latin School has all sports for 7/8 graders.
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Bypassing Middle School Lax for Club Team - 01/31/13 01:22 PM
Originally Posted by LaxMom1310
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by LaxMom1310
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Are Catholic or private middle schools any different? Any insight would be appreciated.


Catholic middle schools may or may not even have sports. If they do they are limited to baseball, basketball type sports. They are a situation when club ball would be a necessity.

You're dating yourself, almost all Catholic schools have soccer & lax programs for 7/8 graders and there are a few that can compete with almost any public school program - these are a lot of the same kids that wind up in Chaminade, St Anthony's, Kellenberg, Mercy, etc


I was just at St Patricks open house on Sunday and it was actually one thing we were most curious about. I went to St Mary's in East Islip also they didn't have it either.

Islip has boys lax only at this time, you can google catholic middle schools athletic association and all the information on what schools participate in lacrosse(probably 10 each for both boys and girls) and the various other sports being offered is there to look at - good luck with your decision!
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Bypassing Middle School Lax for Club Team - 01/31/13 02:01 PM
If your child plays for one of the stronger "A" teams "Yellow Jackets, Top Guns, Liberty" or on the boys side '91, Express, etc.." Playing on their JHS / Middle School team will be a step back. Some would call it a waste of time.

Compare the coaching, how many 7th/8th grade school teams have a coach who can compare to Carol Rose, Danielle Gallagher or Shannon Smith? Also, how many of the 30 or so girls on a school team can earn a spot on one of the top club teams?

I would think the same is true on the boys side. Coaching and caliber of player is going to be significantly better on the top club teams.

Im not sure their is any benefit for the stronger player to play school ball in JHS.

I don't know that I would call it a total waste but in terms of "Player Development" it is not the best use of the players time.

My kids will be playing for their JHS Team even though I do not believe it is the best way to help improve their game.

Translation: "it is OK to want to win... Just not OK to want to win at all costs"

However, if one of my children ask to play only for their Club Team I would strongly consider that option.





Posted By: Anonymous Re: Bypassing Middle School Lax for Club Team - 01/31/13 02:16 PM
Which catholic school (parochial) can compete with (public) middle school programs. Id be interested to see, id also like to know their academic standards/standings. (Maybe Latin School but not St. Patrick's, at least not yet.)

It is always interesting to see who goes from public MS schools, to catholic school HS.

Even more interesting to see them come back to public school after a year or two.
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
I don't know that most school districts pull up from the middle school teams. I know it happens, but I think that it is more the exception than the rule. I have seen an exceptional 8th grader start, and do well, but it is rarely on a really competitive team (ie: Farmingdale or Garden City... just to name a few). I have also seen that same girl play age appropriate club and not score a goal. My daughters school dist does not allow 8th grader to play up in the High School unless that sport is not offered in the middle school.

I think 8th graders who get pulled up to varsity are truly few and far between, and having coached h.s. for quite a few years I can tell you in my experience they should be. They are the elite athletes, often in many sports.


It completely depends on your district. My kids are in a small district and MS kids are regularly pulled up to play JV, and even Varsity, sports. Our district is not big enough to have select teams and "other" teams in MS, nor would our budget have room for this. What we get is 40+ MS kids on a team, some of whom have worlds of experience and some of whom are on the team because it's a chance for them to try it for free or because that's what their set of friends is doing or even because their parents are making them. The coaches are left trying to teach the beginners the sport, the experienced are not learning anything but they are getting the school sport experience of playing and most kids value that. It is what it is. Not optimal but it's two years out of your life (or less if you get pulled up), not the end of the world.

Now, as for bypassing MS sports for club, all I know is in my district that might eventually be forced on us because our school board is always always always talking about cutting MS sports altogether.
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Bypassing Middle School Lax for Club Team - 01/31/13 03:54 PM
I am faced with this dilemma now with my 8th grade son. He plays on his town travel team and on a summer travel team.As spring rolls around he will have lots of "travel" practice commitments. Last year the JHS "experinece" was wanting to say the least. Poor coaching and many players with little or no skills or lax knowledge. He has stated that he does not want to play school ball but I am afraid of alienating the HS coaches. We are in a strong LAX town. Some 8th graders are moved up to JV in our town but they are the exception, not the rule. My son is on the cusp of being able to play at the JV level but he and both agree he is not there yet. Nor will the school move 8th graders onto the freshman team. What to do? I have told him to play school lax and just have fun with it but he counters that its practice everyday and all they do is work on basic drills coupled with limited playing time b/c coach has to play everyone.
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Bypassing Middle School Lax for Club Team - 01/31/13 04:31 PM
Tough situation in front of you. I experienced the same last year with my 8th grader. He did have the opportunity to play up and was actually brought up to varsity. He had the backing of his MS coach, who selfishly wanted him to play MS but in my sons beast interest and developement pushed hard for him to be brought up. I would suggest you talk with the coaches and see where they may feel your son fits in. They may see something in his ability that they would like to develop. As for travel ball, my son plays on a very good travel team thru out the summer. Good luck
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Bypassing Middle School Lax for Club Team - 01/31/13 04:57 PM
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Thats s slippery slope. DOes the Varsity coach play the better player of the kid who paid him over the summer


Huge conflict of interest for a teacher/coach. There are several school districts that are currently investigating conflicts of interest for current coaches who also run travel programs. Both boys and girls. Finally some people are starting to look at what is a terrible conflict of interest that has a negative effect on the kids involved.


If this is the case its possible that outcome of whatever investigations you are referring to could lead to the Chaminade, St Anthony's, Kellenberg (All Express Directors) head JV and Varsity coaches may have to make a decision to either leave the school or divest themselves from their club programs. Which way do you think that will go?
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Bypassing Middle School Lax for Club Team - 01/31/13 05:03 PM
Originally Posted by Anonymous
I am faced with this dilemma now with my 8th grade son. He plays on his town travel team and on a summer travel team.As spring rolls around he will have lots of "travel" practice commitments. Last year the JHS "experinece" was wanting to say the least. Poor coaching and many players with little or no skills or lax knowledge. He has stated that he does not want to play school ball but I am afraid of alienating the HS coaches. We are in a strong LAX town. Some 8th graders are moved up to JV in our town but they are the exception, not the rule. My son is on the cusp of being able to play at the JV level but he and both agree he is not there yet. Nor will the school move 8th graders onto the freshman team. What to do? I have told him to play school lax and just have fun with it but he counters that its practice everyday and all they do is work on basic drills coupled with limited playing time b/c coach has to play everyone.


This should not be a "dilemma"...MS sports are what they are. Your son/daughter will be playing with his peers. As stated here, all of these kids are playing club ball year round. They have a lot of Lacrosse. Being on a school team is about being on a team. Im not "dating myself" when I say "that is important". I keep hearing on here about the individual kid, lacrosse is a team sport! There is something to be said about a kid who is "lights out" good, who plays for his school team and becomes a teacher, a leader, a role model. That is what playing team sports is about. Your kid (who is better than everyone else) can learn so much from this. sure it is frustrating sometimes but, learn from it, teach from it. It is such an incredible opportunity for a child to learn patients and acceptance. I Don't mean to get on my "soap box" but, it is frustrating to hear parents talking that their child is "too good" to play on a team or that it is a "waste of time". Nothing is a waste of time if you learn from it. And do I think not playing on a MS team will alienate a HS coach... Absolutely! Coaches want team players, no matter how talented they are. Go out there, play well & enjoy your time with some friends, you're 13 years old!
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Bypassing Middle School Lax for Club Team - 01/31/13 06:01 PM
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Thats s slippery slope. DOes the Varsity coach play the better player of the kid who paid him over the summer


Huge conflict of interest for a teacher/coach. There are several school districts that are currently investigating conflicts of interest for current coaches who also run travel programs. Both boys and girls. Finally some people are starting to look at what is a terrible conflict of interest that has a negative effect on the kids involved.


If this is the case its possible that outcome of whatever investigations you are referring to could lead to the Chaminade, St Anthony's, Kellenberg (All Express Directors) head JV and Varsity coaches may have to make a decision to either leave the school or divest themselves from their club programs. Which way do you think that will go?


Interesting point except for the fact that the schools you mentioned are private. If it is OK with the school then no investigation is going to change that.
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Bypassing Middle School Lax for Club Team - 01/31/13 07:18 PM
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Thats s slippery slope. DOes the Varsity coach play the better player of the kid who paid him over the summer


Huge conflict of interest for a teacher/coach. There are several school districts that are currently investigating conflicts of interest for current coaches who also run travel programs. Both boys and girls. Finally some people are starting to look at what is a terrible conflict of interest that has a negative effect on the kids involved.


If this is the case its possible that outcome of whatever investigations you are referring to could lead to the Chaminade, St Anthony's, Kellenberg (All Express Directors) head JV and Varsity coaches may have to make a decision to either leave the school or divest themselves from their club programs. Which way do you think that will go?


Interesting point except for the fact that the schools you mentioned are private. If it is OK with the school then no investigation is going to change that.


100% correct on the privates - not an issue for the schools. As far as the publics go, it is big issue. Not sure if it is statewide or district wide, but in our district teachers are not allowed to have any compensation whatsoever from students that they teach (obvious conflict of interest). However, we have situations where gym teachers and other teachers are directly getting paid for summer programs in which their teachers are also their summer coaches. If a teacher can not get paid to tutor their own students, why should teachers abe allowed to "tutor" their own kids in sports.
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Bypassing Middle School Lax for Club Team - 01/31/13 07:23 PM
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Thats s slippery slope. DOes the Varsity coach play the better player of the kid who paid him over the summer


Huge conflict of interest for a teacher/coach. There are several school districts that are currently investigating conflicts of interest for current coaches who also run travel programs. Both boys and girls. Finally some people are starting to look at what is a terrible conflict of interest that has a negative effect on the kids involved.


If this is the case its possible that outcome of whatever investigations you are referring to could lead to the Chaminade, St Anthony's, Kellenberg (All Express Directors) head JV and Varsity coaches may have to make a decision to either leave the school or divest themselves from their club programs. Which way do you think that will go?


Interesting point except for the fact that the schools you mentioned are private. If it is OK with the school then no investigation is going to change that.


Why would that make any difference. The conflict of interest still exists and if a public school is looking into it than why not a private school. Bottom line kidds should be able to play for any club they want regardless of whether or not their private/public HS coach is affiliated with the program without fear of repurcussion. Everybody can say "oh that's nonsense and the coaches wouldn't do that..." Really?... then I'd like you to check out this bridge I have for sale!
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Bypassing Middle School Lax for Club Team - 01/31/13 07:26 PM
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
I am faced with this dilemma now with my 8th grade son. He plays on his town travel team and on a summer travel team.As spring rolls around he will have lots of "travel" practice commitments. Last year the JHS "experinece" was wanting to say the least. Poor coaching and many players with little or no skills or lax knowledge. He has stated that he does not want to play school ball but I am afraid of alienating the HS coaches. We are in a strong LAX town. Some 8th graders are moved up to JV in our town but they are the exception, not the rule. My son is on the cusp of being able to play at the JV level but he and both agree he is not there yet. Nor will the school move 8th graders onto the freshman team. What to do? I have told him to play school lax and just have fun with it but he counters that its practice everyday and all they do is work on basic drills coupled with limited playing time b/c coach has to play everyone.


This should not be a "dilemma"...MS sports are what they are. Your son/daughter will be playing with his peers. As stated here, all of these kids are playing club ball year round. They have a lot of Lacrosse. Being on a school team is about being on a team. Im not "dating myself" when I say "that is important". I keep hearing on here about the individual kid, lacrosse is a team sport! There is something to be said about a kid who is "lights out" good, who plays for his school team and becomes a teacher, a leader, a role model. That is what playing team sports is about. Your kid (who is better than everyone else) can learn so much from this. sure it is frustrating sometimes but, learn from it, teach from it. It is such an incredible opportunity for a child to learn patients and acceptance. I Don't mean to get on my "soap box" but, it is frustrating to hear parents talking that their child is "too good" to play on a team or that it is a "waste of time". Nothing is a waste of time if you learn from it. And do I think not playing on a MS team will alienate a HS coach... Absolutely! Coaches want team players, no matter how talented they are. Go out there, play well & enjoy your time with some friends, you're 13 years old!


Couldn't agree with you more. All valid points. Great post.
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Bypassing Middle School Lax for Club Team - 01/31/13 07:57 PM
Public School / Town Programs are where the conflicts of interest are. The Problem is when kids are excluded from Town / Shool programs if they play for a "private club".

Posted By: Anonymous Re: Bypassing Middle School Lax for Club Team - 01/31/13 08:12 PM
Indeed, public school coaches getting involved in the summer/year-round club business presents numerous issues, not the least of which is potential unfairness to the kids (i.e., preferential treatment for club players when playing for the school team, etc.).

But ALL those potential issues may already exist for coaches at the Catholic HS programs mentioned above.

I wonder if the administration at Chaminade and St. Anthony's have any idea the club connections are so strong?

Posted By: Anonymous Re: Bypassing Middle School Lax for Club Team - 01/31/13 08:50 PM
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Thats s slippery slope. DOes the Varsity coach play the better player of the kid who paid him over the summer


Huge conflict of interest for a teacher/coach. There are several school districts that are currently investigating conflicts of interest for current coaches who also run travel programs. Both boys and girls. Finally some people are starting to look at what is a terrible conflict of interest that has a negative effect on the kids involved.


If this is the case its possible that outcome of whatever investigations you are referring to could lead to the Chaminade, St Anthony's, Kellenberg (All Express Directors) head JV and Varsity coaches may have to make a decision to either leave the school or divest themselves from their club programs. Which way do you think that will go?


anyone involved in the private school system at the high school level knows very well that they have there own set of rules for everything and could care less what public school protocol is. also rest assured that they are very much aware of everything going on involving somebody that's employed by them when it comes to clubs/clinics/camps etc
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Bypassing Middle School Lax for Club Team - 01/31/13 09:00 PM
As an athletic chairperson of a public L.I. school I can assure you (and I have been around longer than I should be) that it is very rare that an 8th grade athlete gets pulled up to varsity. Just an fyi, there are many steps taken before a student is selected, i.e. varsity coach observation and a NYS physical test that some of the strongest football players can't pass. There is no way around the test, it must be administered and observed and signed document is sent to Albany. It's no joke.
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Bypassing Middle School Lax for Club Team - 01/31/13 09:12 PM

Originally Posted by ProtonPower
Indeed, public school coaches getting involved in the summer/year-round club business presents numerous issues, not the least of which is potential unfairness to the kids (i.e., preferential treatment for club players when playing for the school team, etc.).

But ALL those potential issues may already exist for coaches at the Catholic HS programs mentioned above.

I wonder if the administration at Chaminade and St. Anthony's have any idea the club connections are so strong?

Of course they do...they benefit from it!!! Kids leave public/town programs and select the private option and it all works for many on both sides of the team. Schools obtain students and clubs get players. It really needs to be an individual choice for what is best for each family. Too many conflicts on both sides regardless of private or public.There are issues on the public side with teachers/coaches making it mandatory to play for them only.
No easy answer.
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Bypassing Middle School Lax for Club Team - 01/31/13 10:45 PM
Gymnastics, tennis ,golf , I can see an 8th grader play varsity. But lacrosse is a contact sport. The physical strength between a possible 18 year old and 13/14 yr old is flat out dangerous. Any school official would be careless to do that
Originally Posted by Anonymous
As an athletic chairperson of a public L.I. school I can assure you (and I have been around longer than I should be) that it is very rare that an 8th grade athlete gets pulled up to varsity. Just an fyi, there are many steps taken before a student is selected, i.e. varsity coach observation and a NYS physical test that some of the strongest football players can't pass. There is no way around the test, it must be administered and observed and signed document is sent to Albany. It's no joke.


I repeat, it depends on the district. I've also heard of that test being given and re-given until an athlete passes if that's how the powers that be want it to happen. I also believe, if you read the small print on the NYS doc, that the AD can sign off on an athelete moving up despite not passing the test. Is this squirrely? You betcha.
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Gymnastics, tennis ,golf , I can see an 8th grader play varsity. But lacrosse is a contact sport. The physical strength between a possible 18 year old and 13/14 yr old is flat out dangerous. Any school official would be careless to do that


The child in question must meet certain physical guidelines, but athletically and in physical maturity. Here is the link to the NYS guideline: http://www.p12.nysed.gov/ciai/pe/documents/scrivised2005.pdf
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Bypassing Middle School Lax for Club Team - 02/01/13 03:29 AM
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Gymnastics, tennis ,golf , I can see an 8th grader play varsity. But lacrosse is a contact sport. The physical strength between a possible 18 year old and 13/14 yr old is flat out dangerous. Any school official would be careless to do that

....in your opinion, correct? Can you declare this for every situation? Have you ever seen a 110 lb Junior/Senior? Have you ever seen a 200 lb 13 yr old? They DO exist, and our love for hormone injected livestock has seen that these kids are around (genetics may play a small part as well). Wish the kid well, as your child will learn from this expression of benevolence. I just mean to point out that we have probably seen some of the most gross mismatches occur on high school fields, and the kids usually come out just fine. If a kid is willing, and an athletic department is willing, and all are within the guidelines of safety put forth by our state, maybe we should cheer on little Johnny, and show more concern for the nubie whom is sure to get creamed by the jock of the same age headed his way at a full gallop!
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Bypassing Middle School Lax for Club Team - 02/01/13 03:34 AM
Originally Posted by Anonymous
I am faced with this dilemma now with my 8th grade son. He plays on his town travel team and on a summer travel team.As spring rolls around he will have lots of "travel" practice commitments. Last year the JHS "experinece" was wanting to say the least. Poor coaching and many players with little or no skills or lax knowledge. He has stated that he does not want to play school ball but I am afraid of alienating the HS coaches. We are in a strong LAX town. Some 8th graders are moved up to JV in our town but they are the exception, not the rule. My son is on the cusp of being able to play at the JV level but he and both agree he is not there yet. Nor will the school move 8th graders onto the freshman team. What to do? I have told him to play school lax and just have fun with it but he counters that its practice everyday and all they do is work on basic drills coupled with limited playing time b/c coach has to play everyone.

Is being "on the cusp" of moving up enough of a reason to feel as if staying with your grade is a waste of time? Stick with it, forge the friendships, etc. Let him enjoy it. That's just this one guys opinion, as I know far too little of your individual situation. Have fun!
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Bypassing Middle School Lax for Club Team - 02/01/13 01:52 PM
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Gymnastics, tennis ,golf , I can see an 8th grader play varsity. But lacrosse is a contact sport. The physical strength between a possible 18 year old and 13/14 yr old is flat out dangerous. Any school official would be careless to do that

....in your opinion, correct? Can you declare this for every situation? Have you ever seen a 110 lb Junior/Senior? Have you ever seen a 200 lb 13 yr old? They DO exist, and our love for hormone injected livestock has seen that these kids are around (genetics may play a small part as well). Wish the kid well, as your child will learn from this expression of benevolence. I just mean to point out that we have probably seen some of the most gross mismatches occur on high school fields, and the kids usually come out just fine. If a kid is willing, and an athletic department is willing, and all are within the guidelines of safety put forth by our state, maybe we should cheer on little Johnny, and show more concern for the nubie whom is sure to get creamed by the jock of the same age headed his way at a full gallop!


Speaking of hormones - recently overheard one long island 2016 kid tell another on an airplane that they take hormone injections because "my dad says it will make me grow". Looking at this kid, he was slightly bigger than his friend. This is now the second one that I've heard about in this grade - the other being a clearly over zealous father in a well-to-do town with a rich lax history. Parents messing with mother nature regardless of long term repurcussions or just medically necessary? Anybody else hearing anything along these lines?
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Bypassing Middle School Lax for Club Team - 02/01/13 02:36 PM
This was our experience with middle school lacrosse: our son played for both the school team and a select travel team. He had the advantage of being coached by those that were knowledgeable of the game outside the realm of school ball. What we did encounter with school lacrosse, was the school coach has there own philosophy of how to play the game, and at times he wasn't instructing the players correctly and there were conflicts with what the school coach considered the correct thing to do in the face of adversity. We feel that middle school lacrosse is an opportunity to stay connected to your peers and school coaches, but we watched our son take a step back during the coarse of the school season as there were players that couldn't pass well or catch, didn't know there slides on defense and there knowledge of the game was lacking. Our son looked forward to playing for his school and therefore, it was a positive experience.
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Bypassing Middle School Lax for Club Team - 02/01/13 03:25 PM
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Gymnastics, tennis ,golf , I can see an 8th grader play varsity. But lacrosse is a contact sport. The physical strength between a possible 18 year old and 13/14 yr old is flat out dangerous. Any school official would be careless to do that

....in your opinion, correct? Can you declare this for every situation? Have you ever seen a 110 lb Junior/Senior? Have you ever seen a 200 lb 13 yr old? They DO exist, and our love for hormone injected livestock has seen that these kids are around (genetics may play a small part as well). Wish the kid well, as your child will learn from this expression of benevolence. I just mean to point out that we have probably seen some of the most gross mismatches occur on high school fields, and the kids usually come out just fine. If a kid is willing, and an athletic department is willing, and all are within the guidelines of safety put forth by our state, maybe we should cheer on little Johnny, and show more concern for the nubie whom is sure to get creamed by the jock of the same age headed his way at a full gallop!


Speaking of hormones - recently overheard one long island 2016 kid tell another on an airplane that they take hormone injections because "my dad says it will make me grow". Looking at this kid, he was slightly bigger than his friend. This is now the second one that I've heard about in this grade - the other being a clearly over zealous father in a well-to-do town with a rich lax history. Parents messing with mother nature regardless of long term repurcussions or just medically necessary? Anybody else hearing anything along these lines?


No
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Speaking of hormones - recently overheard one long island 2016 kid tell another on an airplane that they take hormone injections because "my dad says it will make me grow". Looking at this kid, he was slightly bigger than his friend. This is now the second one that I've heard about in this grade - the other being a clearly over zealous father in a well-to-do town with a rich lax history. Parents messing with mother nature regardless of long term repurcussions or just medically necessary? Anybody else hearing anything along these lines?
This post is pathetic. Not only is hormone injection outside of a doctor's medically documented need a criminal offense, but as a parent, for you to have "heard" this serious issue and walk away from the situation - only to then post on our BOTC Main Message Forum - implies one of several things :

[1] You condone this behavior and have chosen to discuss the issue for personal validation.

[2] You do not condone the behavior but refuse to be an adult and confront the situation for the better health of the young man involved.

[3] You have made up this story in order to drive some off-topic discussion.

Here at BOTC, we are hoping that the answer is [3]. In either of the first two cases, you are crossing the line into criminal behavior and that is objectionable at any level.
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Bypassing Middle School Lax for Club Team - 02/01/13 04:57 PM
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Gymnastics, tennis ,golf , I can see an 8th grader play varsity. But lacrosse is a contact sport. The physical strength between a possible 18 year old and 13/14 yr old is flat out dangerous. Any school official would be careless to do that

....in your opinion, correct? Can you declare this for every situation? Have you ever seen a 110 lb Junior/Senior? Have you ever seen a 200 lb 13 yr old? They DO exist, and our love for hormone injected livestock has seen that these kids are around (genetics may play a small part as well). Wish the kid well, as your child will learn from this expression of benevolence. I just mean to point out that we have probably seen some of the most gross mismatches occur on high school fields, and the kids usually come out just fine. If a kid is willing, and an athletic department is willing, and all are within the guidelines of safety put forth by our state, maybe we should cheer on little Johnny, and show more concern for the nubie whom is sure to get creamed by the jock of the same age headed his way at a full gallop!


Speaking of hormones - recently overheard one long island 2016 kid tell another on an airplane that they take hormone injections because "my dad says it will make me grow". Looking at this kid, he was slightly bigger than his friend. This is now the second one that I've heard about in this grade - the other being a clearly over zealous father in a well-to-do town with a rich lax history. Parents messing with mother nature regardless of long term repurcussions or just medically necessary? Anybody else hearing anything along these lines?


No


I've actually researched this fairly extensively just out of curiosity. Basically I came out on the side of "just don't do it!". Only in the case of fairly severe cases of hormone deficiency does it even begin to cross over into the area of medically necessary. There are many doctors who strongly believe that the long term consequences can be severely detrimental leading to many potential health problems as an adult - mainly involving the liver, link to certain cancers, cardiovascular and circulatory systems - particular abnormalities of the heart (enlargement) - remember the heart is a muscle and affected the same way a bicep would be. Don't even think about it for an athletic edge! Unfortunately there are parents who will try to push the envelope and for sure if you look hard enough for a doctor to go along with it you'll find one too.
Originally Posted by Anonymous
I've actually researched this fairly extensively just out of curiosity. Basically I came out on the side of "just don't do it!". Only in the case of fairly severe cases of hormone deficiency does it even begin to cross over into the area of medically necessary. There are many doctors who strongly believe that the long term consequences can be severely detrimental leading to many potential health problems as an adult - mainly involving the liver, link to certain cancers, cardiovascular and circulatory systems - particular abnormalities of the heart (enlargement) - remember the heart is a muscle and affected the same way a bicep would be. Don't even think about it for an athletic edge! Unfortunately there are parents who will try to push the envelope and for sure if you look hard enough for a doctor to go along with it you'll find one too.
You posted that your were aware of a conversation [which had to be within a row or two of where you were sitting on an airplane] between boys in the Class of 2016 age group.

While you might want to mask the discussion into a "don't do it" framework, you have either posted wrongly to stir this issue or you ignored a young man who was using these dangerous chemicals.

So, how much of this research did you share with the young man in question ... or did you turn a deaf ear?
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Bypassing Middle School Lax for Club Team - 02/01/13 07:03 PM
Originally Posted by Powderfinger
Originally Posted by Anonymous
As an athletic chairperson of a public L.I. school I can assure you (and I have been around longer than I should be) that it is very rare that an 8th grade athlete gets pulled up to varsity. Just an fyi, there are many steps taken before a student is selected, i.e. varsity coach observation and a NYS physical test that some of the strongest football players can't pass. There is no way around the test, it must be administered and observed and signed document is sent to Albany. It's no joke.


I repeat, it depends on the district. I've also heard of that test being given and re-given until an athlete passes if that's how the powers that be want it to happen. I also believe, if you read the small print on the NYS doc, that the AD can sign off on an athelete moving up despite not passing the test. Is this squirrely? You betcha.


It depends on each district if they allow a child to move up. It is a state governed mandatory physical test that each athlete has to pass to move up. The standards of that test are different for different sports (contact/non-contact etc.) It is not in "small print", there is actually an addtional application called Special Approval Request Application that can be sent to NYS for approval (if the athlete can not meet a certain standard) Is that "squirrely"? I dont think so..It is a process for a student/athlete to be good enough for a JV or Varsity coach to take notice of him/her & it is a VERY dificult test to pass. Do you not think that the coaches, AD, parents & the students know the pros and cons of making a decision like this? Why is anyone angry or questioning the process? Some kids (even without hormone injections) are just bigger, stronger, faster, more atheletic, focused, etc. @ an earlier age. Good for them (& the school districts they live in)
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Bypassing Middle School Lax for Club Team - 02/01/13 07:46 PM
It is criminal and it is called endangering the welfare of a child and that is shameful
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Bypassing Middle School Lax for Club Team - 02/01/13 08:35 PM
Wake up people!!!! The hormone stuff is all over the wrestling community and most wrestlers and parents are well aware of it. Maybe not as much in lax as of now but it is out there. Many of the wrestlers know which "doctors" that they need to go to to get the meds.
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Bypassing Middle School Lax for Club Team - 02/01/13 08:49 PM
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Powderfinger
Originally Posted by Anonymous
As an athletic chairperson of a public L.I. school I can assure you (and I have been around longer than I should be) that it is very rare that an 8th grade athlete gets pulled up to varsity. Just an fyi, there are many steps taken before a student is selected, i.e. varsity coach observation and a NYS physical test that some of the strongest football players can't pass. There is no way around the test, it must be administered and observed and signed document is sent to Albany. It's no joke.


I repeat, it depends on the district. I've also heard of that test being given and re-given until an athlete passes if that's how the powers that be want it to happen. I also believe, if you read the small print on the NYS doc, that the AD can sign off on an athelete moving up despite not passing the test. Is this squirrely? You betcha.


It depends on each district if they allow a child to move up. It is a state governed mandatory physical test that each athlete has to pass to move up. The standards of that test are different for different sports (contact/non-contact etc.) It is not in "small print", there is actually an addtional application called Special Approval Request Application that can be sent to NYS for approval (if the athlete can not meet a certain standard) Is that "squirrely"? I dont think so..It is a process for a student/athlete to be good enough for a JV or Varsity coach to take notice of him/her & it is a VERY dificult test to pass. Do you not think that the coaches, AD, parents & the students know the pros and cons of making a decision like this? Why is anyone angry or questioning the process? Some kids (even without hormone injections) are just bigger, stronger, faster, more atheletic, focused, etc. @ an earlier age. Good for them (& the school districts they live in)

NOTHING "squirrely" about the test. My daughter was asked to play varsity basketball and lacrosse but despite working out could not pass the palms out chin up arm hang component of the test. Our middle school program takes as many kids as they can which results in 20 on a basketball team and 35+ on the lacrosse team. They learn nothing about the sport/skills and the coaches hired are most often friends of the principal and have no athletic experience. Thankfully the high school program is well run. My daughter has chosen to be the manager for the varsity program.
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Wake up people!!!! The hormone stuff is all over the wrestling community and most wrestlers and parents are well aware of it. Maybe not as much in lax as of now but it is out there. Many of the wrestlers know which "doctors" that they need to go to to get the meds.


Ditto the basketball world. People are crazy! I know a bball family whose kids were above average height but "not tall enough." They talked a LOT about growth hormone shots for their boys but they moved and I'm not sure they ever did it. The boys are all over 6' now, but that was expected as their parents were also tall. Tall and crazy.

I know one parent, not a sports parent either, whose son was always very small. They looked into growth shots and ultimately decided against it because there were too many negatives. Their son is 18yo now and 5'7". But he doesn't have breasts or have to worry about future tumors and that sounds like a good tradeoff to me.
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Bypassing Middle School Lax for Club Team - 02/01/13 11:48 PM
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Wake up people!!!! The hormone stuff is all over the wrestling community and most wrestlers and parents are well aware of it. Maybe not as much in lax as of now but it is out there. Many of the wrestlers know which "doctors" that they need to go to to get the meds.


coached youth wrestling for years and been around the sport for over 30 years and have never heard of anyone involved with hormone therapy on Long Island. I also have been around Olympic and World champions and never heard about it. Maybe WWE but here on Long Island I have not. Yes there are those who feel the need to have an edge and will take steroids or HGH but giving this type of crap to a kid who does not need it for a medical situation is nuts. I also think this thread started off as somthing else. Lets go back to the original topic.
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Wake up people!!!! The hormone stuff is all over the wrestling community and most wrestlers and parents are well aware of it. Maybe not as much in lax as of now but it is out there. Many of the wrestlers know which "doctors" that they need to go to to get the meds.


coached youth wrestling for years and been around the sport for over 30 years and have never heard of anyone involved with hormone therapy on Long Island. I also have been around Olympic and World champions and never heard about it. Maybe WWE but here on Long Island I have not. Yes there are those who feel the need to have an edge and will take steroids or HGH but giving this type of crap to a kid who does not need it for a medical situation is nuts. I also think this thread started off as somthing else. Lets go back to the original topic.
Two very interesting topics have emerged : Middle School vs. Club Lacrosse and the much darker question of steroid usage. BOTC would certainly support going back to our original discussion topic, but we cannot turn a blind eye to the specter of steroid usage.
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Bypassing Middle School Lax for Club Team - 02/02/13 02:05 PM
Agree with the latest comments since two issues are being discussed. To think that this HGH issue would even be a discussion in the high school age groups is disturbing.
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Bypassing Middle School Lax for Club Team - 02/02/13 02:11 PM
Originally Posted by CageSage
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Wake up people!!!! The hormone stuff is all over the wrestling community and most wrestlers and parents are well aware of it. Maybe not as much in lax as of now but it is out there. Many of the wrestlers know which "doctors" that they need to go to to get the meds.


coached youth wrestling for years and been around the sport for over 30 years and have never heard of anyone involved with hormone therapy on Long Island. I also have been around Olympic and World champions and never heard about it. Maybe WWE but here on Long Island I have not. Yes there are those who feel the need to have an edge and will take steroids or HGH but giving this type of crap to a kid who does not need it for a medical situation is nuts. I also think this thread started off as somthing else. Lets go back to the original topic.
Two very interesting topics have emerged : Middle School vs. Club Lacrosse and the much darker question of steroid usage. BOTC would certainly support going back to our original discussion topic, but we cannot turn a blind eye to the specter of steroid usage.



Cage, steroid usage and a Doctor giving HGH injections are two different issues. Believe it or not, a parent who is concerned about their son growing can get a Dr to start HGH injection much easier than you would think. It is far more available than most people know. It just so happens that the the other effects of HGH are increased musle mass. Which ultimately increases speed. That's right, strength equals speed, another topic for all these speed guys having kids running ladders and cones to increase speed. (useless)
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Bypassing Middle School Lax for Club Team - 02/02/13 02:17 PM
Two things. In regards to the middle school lax issue, here in my town, it is expected that you will play middle school lacrosse, it is just part of the feeder process for the high school. They very rarely bring kids up, unless you are truly special.

As to the steroid use, I have heard whispers and rumors about certain kids in our age group and there are a few kids that you look at and scratch your head about how they grew so big so fast, but who's to know? I can definitely believe there are overzealous, misguided parents out there that would do that to their child. Not sure why anyone would want to risk their childs health over a few years of athletic prowess is beyond me. Like someone said earlier it borders on endangering the welfare of a child and criminality. Having said all that I dont think its a widespread issue in youth lacrosse, lets just hope it stays that way.
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Bypassing Middle School Lax for Club Team - 02/02/13 03:02 PM
OF Course, it is a conflict of interest!! whether Private school or Public - these Summer teams are a for profit venture! Parents and kids are forced to carefully navigate thru the consequence of their choices, for the fear of backlash from HS Coaches...

There needs to be an immediate end to this Conflict of interest!!

....But who is the governing body that would "investigate" or regulate this alarming trend?
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Bypassing Middle School Lax for Club Team - 02/02/13 03:12 PM
When size, speed, strength etc are important (ie..all sports) people will try to find an edge. The HGH issue with kids is out there and it is easier to obtain than you think from certain doctors. Combine that with the notion of holding a kid back, late bloomers etc and thats why you see such a disparity between kids at the middle school age. Add to that the idea that 8th graders are getting "looks" at a money making camp, the hope that "my kid" will get a scholarship, and you have all the ingredients for problems with a sport like Lax.
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Bypassing Middle School Lax for Club Team - 02/02/13 04:51 PM
Originally Posted by Anonymous
When size, speed, strength etc are important (ie..all sports) people will try to find an edge. The HGH issue with kids is out there and it is easier to obtain than you think from certain doctors. Combine that with the notion of holding a kid back, late bloomers etc and thats why you see such a disparity between kids at the middle school age. Add to that the idea that 8th graders are getting "looks" at a money making camp, the hope that "my kid" will get a scholarship, and you have all the ingredients for problems with a sport like Lax.


The parents are the problems with a sport like lax (or soccer or wrestling or football or tennis or bolwing etc...)
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Bypassing Middle School Lax for Club Team - 02/02/13 07:21 PM
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by CageSage
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Wake up people!!!! The hormone stuff is all over the wrestling community and most wrestlers and parents are well aware of it. Maybe not as much in lax as of now but it is out there. Many of the wrestlers know which "doctors" that they need to go to to get the meds.


coached youth wrestling for years and been around the sport for over 30 years and have never heard of anyone involved with hormone therapy on Long Island. I also have been around Olympic and World champions and never heard about it. Maybe WWE but here on Long Island I have not. Yes there are those who feel the need to have an edge and will take steroids or HGH but giving this type of crap to a kid who does not need it for a medical situation is nuts. I also think this thread started off as somthing else. Lets go back to the original topic.
Two very interesting topics have emerged : Middle School vs. Club Lacrosse and the much darker question of steroid usage. BOTC would certainly support going back to our original discussion topic, but we cannot turn a blind eye to the specter of steroid usage.



Cage, steroid usage and a Doctor giving HGH injections are two different issues. Believe it or not, a parent who is concerned about their son growing can get a Dr to start HGH injection much easier than you would think. It is far more available than most people know. It just so happens that the the other effects of HGH are increased musle mass. Which ultimately increases speed. That's right, strength equals speed, another topic for all these speed guys having kids running ladders and cones to increase speed. (useless)


They're not necessarily running ladders an cons t develop straight-line speed. Other than track, straight-line speed, while impressive, isn't particularly useful.
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Bypassing Middle School Lax for Club Team - 02/04/13 02:08 PM
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by CageSage
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Wake up people!!!! The hormone stuff is all over the wrestling community and most wrestlers and parents are well aware of it. Maybe not as much in lax as of now but it is out there. Many of the wrestlers know which "doctors" that they need to go to to get the meds.


coached youth wrestling for years and been around the sport for over 30 years and have never heard of anyone involved with hormone therapy on Long Island. I also have been around Olympic and World champions and never heard about it. Maybe WWE but here on Long Island I have not. Yes there are those who feel the need to have an edge and will take steroids or HGH but giving this type of crap to a kid who does not need it for a medical situation is nuts. I also think this thread started off as somthing else. Lets go back to the original topic.
Two very interesting topics have emerged : Middle School vs. Club Lacrosse and the much darker question of steroid usage. BOTC would certainly support going back to our original discussion topic, but we cannot turn a blind eye to the specter of steroid usage.



Cage, steroid usage and a Doctor giving HGH injections are two different issues. Believe it or not, a parent who is concerned about their son growing can get a Dr to start HGH injection much easier than you would think. It is far more available than most people know. It just so happens that the the other effects of HGH are increased musle mass. Which ultimately increases speed. That's right, strength equals speed, another topic for all these speed guys having kids running ladders and cones to increase speed. (useless)


They're not necessarily running ladders an cons t develop straight-line speed. Other than track, straight-line speed, while impressive, isn't particularly useful.


Not talking just straight line speed. The ability for an athelete to make a cut and change direction comes from strength, not from running through ladders and cones over and over. If the legs do not have the musle mass and strength to absorb the force needed to change direction, the cut will not happen. Watch younger kids, the smaller lighter kids look much more nimble. Why? They weigh less and their legs can handle the force need to make a cut. When they get older, the bigger kids leg strength catches up. Its all about strength... If your not strength training, all the cones and ladder mean nothing!
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Bypassing Middle School Lax for Club Team - 02/04/13 08:42 PM
not to change the subject or anything but I would welcome Bypassing Middle School Lax for Club Team. I don't buy into the "help the town and help the weaker kids" argument at all, the smarter kids never come over my house to help my kid do math homework and I couldn't care less about my HS rankings, I care about my own kid and whats best for him/her and I would love if he/she could play with her select team all year round and never have to play middle school with a bunch of new kids that aren't dedicated to the game.
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Bypassing Middle School Lax for Club Team - 02/04/13 10:10 PM
Well, then pay for club lax. I'm sure his HS coach won't hold it against him. (Actually, I'm not at all sure about that.)

Maybe pay for Express and send him to Chaminade or St. Anthony's (if he gets in). Then, you can keep paying Express even after he gets in, because that's the way it works at some places (but only if you want your son to actually get playing time).

Or, he can play with his friends on the middle school team for nothing and be a stand out and impress his low-ranked HS coaches.

Or maybe do both.
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Bypassing Middle School Lax for Club Team - 02/04/13 11:22 PM
Originally Posted by Anonymous
not to change the subject or anything but I would welcome Bypassing Middle School Lax for Club Team. I don't buy into the "help the town and help the weaker kids" argument at all, the smarter kids never come over my house to help my kid do math homework and I couldn't care less about my HS rankings, I care about my own kid and whats best for him/her and I would love if he/she could play with her select team all year round and never have to play middle school with a bunch of new kids that aren't dedicated to the game.


Nice....Anyone have thoughts regarding this ME attitude so many parents seem to be passing along to their children?
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Bypassing Middle School Lax for Club Team - 02/05/13 12:29 AM
Originally Posted by Anonymous
not to change the subject or anything but I would welcome Bypassing Middle School Lax for Club Team. I don't buy into the "help the town and help the weaker kids" argument at all, the smarter kids never come over my house to help my kid do math homework and I couldn't care less about my HS rankings, I care about my own kid and whats best for him/her and I would love if he/she could play with her select team all year round and never have to play middle school with a bunch of new kids that aren't dedicated to the game.


jeeze...not a team player I see! Do what you want, let us know how it goes in the end. BTW...some of the smarter kids do stay after & help the other kids in math (just saying;)
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Bypassing Middle School Lax for Club Team - 02/05/13 01:48 AM
im sure if your less skilled "mathlete" went to the math club the better mathletes would play with him.
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Bypassing Middle School Lax for Club Team - 02/05/13 01:09 PM
Originally Posted by Anonymous
not to change the subject or anything but I would welcome Bypassing Middle School Lax for Club Team. I don't buy into the "help the town and help the weaker kids" argument at all, the smarter kids never come over my house to help my kid do math homework and I couldn't care less about my HS rankings, I care about my own kid and whats best for him/her and I would love if he/she could play with her select team all year round and never have to play middle school with a bunch of new kids that aren't dedicated to the game.


I for one appreciate the honesty and wrestle with this issue myself. It seems the other side of this argument is driven by fear of retribution by coaches and the community.
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Bypassing Middle School Lax for Club Team - 02/05/13 02:15 PM
Why is it OK for Town / Youth / Middle School / HS programs to place kids on different teams ( A / B ) or cut kids completely but its not OK for the best players in that same town to want to play with a higher caliber team?



Posted By: Anonymous Re: Bypassing Middle School Lax for Club Team - 02/05/13 02:17 PM
Originally Posted by Anonymous
not to change the subject or anything but I would welcome Bypassing Middle School Lax for Club Team. I don't buy into the "help the town and help the weaker kids" argument at all, the smarter kids never come over my house to help my kid do math homework and I couldn't care less about my HS rankings, I care about my own kid and whats best for him/her and I would love if he/she could play with her select team all year round and never have to play middle school with a bunch of new kids that aren't dedicated to the game.


So let's assume your kid gets recruited to play college lacrosse, maybe not top 10 D1 or have a chance at NCAA championship, but has an opportunity to play. Do you, or your son, turn it down because it's lower end D1, D2 or D3? Do you, or your son, quit if he is not a starter and maybe just a practice player? Do you, or your son, quit if the team has poor season?

My kids play town/school/PAL, town travel, and club travel. There are lessons learned at every level of play aside from what makes "ME" better. Being able to find a way to contribute to any team is a quality attribute, loyalty is another.

That said, if your decision is to go private, by all means support those clubs that are tied into those private schools. They are, in many ways, the middle school feeder to their high schools.
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Bypassing Middle School Lax for Club Team - 02/05/13 02:33 PM
Originally Posted by Anonymous
If the current trend continues, it seems likely that the best players will forgo middle schools teams for club teams. Perhaps it will even extend to high school teams. My kid plays for a good club team and I think this trend is really unfortunate. High school lacrosse were some of my best memories. I really wish everyone would step back and let the kids be kids and enjoy their middle school and high school teams playing alongside their friends from their towns in front of local student. Don't mean to get on a soapbox. These are just my humble opinions.


My son use to play for fl$ - their philosophy was that (1) school work comes first (2) school teams come second (3) fl$ comes third. While that may not have translated into the "best" travel team, it did make sure the boys have their priorities straight.
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Bypassing Middle School Lax for Club Team - 02/05/13 02:35 PM
I would like to know your feelings on the Town Program that does not allow boys to play on their PAL team if they choose to play for club team.

I would also like your opinion on "loyalty" with regard to the same town program that will cut a boy who has been "loyal" for many years.

Posted By: Anonymous Re: Bypassing Middle School Lax for Club Team - 02/05/13 03:33 PM
Originally Posted by Anonymous
I would like to know your feelings on the Town Program that does not allow boys to play on their PAL team if they choose to play for club team.

I would also like your opinion on "loyalty" with regard to the same town program that will cut a boy who has been "loyal" for many years.



Don't agree with either-

Club makes town better.

Town kid that doesn't make town A team should have place to play, B team.

If you situation differs, agree tough call.
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Bypassing Middle School Lax for Club Team - 02/05/13 04:14 PM
Originally Posted by Anonymous
I would like to know your feelings on the Town Program that does not allow boys to play on their PAL team if they choose to play for club team.

I would also like your opinion on "loyalty" with regard to the same town program that will cut a boy who has been "loyal" for many years.


What town would that be? I've never seen a question on a PAL form asking what other activites the kid will be doing on a Sunday.
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Bypassing Middle School Lax for Club Team - 02/05/13 06:17 PM
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
not to change the subject or anything but I would welcome Bypassing Middle School Lax for Club Team. I don't buy into the "help the town and help the weaker kids" argument at all, the smarter kids never come over my house to help my kid do math homework and I couldn't care less about my HS rankings, I care about my own kid and whats best for him/her and I would love if he/she could play with her select team all year round and never have to play middle school with a bunch of new kids that aren't dedicated to the game.


I for one appreciate the honesty and wrestle with this issue myself. It seems the other side of this argument is driven by fear of retribution by coaches and the community.


No, the other side, in my sons case, is being a team player, loyalty, sportsmanship, patients, acceptance, town pride, friendships, ...pretty much the basis of becoming a "Man".
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Bypassing Middle School Lax for Club Team - 02/05/13 09:08 PM
Originally Posted by Anonymous
I would like to know your feelings on the Town Program that does not allow boys to play on their PAL team if they choose to play for club team.

I would also like your opinion on "loyalty" with regard to the same town program that will cut a boy who has been "loyal" for many years.



Mr M again?
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Bypassing Middle School Lax for Club Team - 02/05/13 09:43 PM
Originally Posted by Anonymous
I would like to know your feelings on the Town Program that does not allow boys to play on their PAL team if they choose to play for club team.

I would also like your opinion on "loyalty" with regard to the same town program that will cut a boy who has been "loyal" for many years.



My understanding is PAL is a no cut league. Am I wrong about this ?
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Bypassing Middle School Lax for Club Team - 02/05/13 11:06 PM
PAL accepts every player "it's about the kids" they are instructional........as far as middle school lacrosse, I would rather my son be a team player....honor....loyalty....code, don't bypass the opportunity
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Bypassing Middle School Lax for Club Team - 02/05/13 11:24 PM
-- "No, the other side, in my sons case, is being a team player, loyalty, sportsmanship, patients, acceptance, town pride, friendships, ...pretty much the basis of becoming a "Man". --"

So now you cant become a man if you play for a select club??

I am amazed by your arrogance.





Posted By: Anonymous Re: Bypassing Middle School Lax for Club Team - 02/06/13 01:16 AM
It's a code. Lt Kaffee
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Bypassing Middle School Lax for Club Team - 02/06/13 01:54 AM
You Want The Truth?

You Can't Handle The Truth!
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Bypassing Middle School Lax for Club Team - 02/06/13 02:07 AM
Originally Posted by Anonymous
You Want The Truth?

You Can't Handle The Truth!


"You sleep under the blanket of democracy I provide and then question the way I provide it" I would rather you just say thank you and went on your way. Otherwise grab a weapon and stand a post"

Col. Nathan R. Jessop

Classic
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Bypassing Middle School Lax for Club Team - 02/06/13 02:20 AM
Originally Posted by Anonymous
-- "No, the other side, in my sons case, is being a team player, loyalty, sportsmanship, patients, acceptance, town pride, friendships, ...pretty much the basis of becoming a "Man". --"

So now you cant become a man if you play for a select club??

I am amazed by your arrogance.

Im amazed by yours...that was never said. You can play on both.





Posted By: Anonymous Re: Bypassing Middle School Lax for Club Team - 02/06/13 02:28 AM
What town does not allow the children in their community play PAL if they play for a club team? Is that even allowed? Looked on both Nassau's and Suffolk's PAL website and nowhere does is say that children should be excluded if they play for a club team.
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Bypassing Middle School Lax for Club Team - 02/06/13 02:32 AM
Originally Posted by Anonymous
-- "No, the other side, in my sons case, is being a team player, loyalty, sportsmanship, patients, acceptance, town pride, friendships, ...pretty much the basis of becoming a "Man". --"

So now you cant become a man if you play for a select club??

I am amazed by your arrogance.

I am amzed by how you got that from that post.





Posted By: Anonymous Re: Bypassing Middle School Lax for Club Team - 02/06/13 03:11 AM
Ward Melville school district plays in which pal league and why and who governs it and that pal.
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Bypassing Middle School Lax for Club Team - 02/06/13 05:23 AM
fl$... isn't that the organiztion that makes players sign an agreement that they won't play for another team... even their town team?? its certainly "for the Love" of something... but it ain't Lacrosse;)
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Bypassing Middle School Lax for Club Team - 02/06/13 05:38 AM
wow! how do you do it?? ...I'll nominate you for Father of the year:/
So all those Man lessons are reserved for the kid who decides to play for the town that he lives in??
sounds less about Lacrosse competition and more about all that polyanna "fair share" talk
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Bypassing Middle School Lax for Club Team - 02/06/13 11:45 AM
In my sons situation we have made every effort to stay and play with the PAL team. Our town will not/does not shun playing for select teams. The playing level is just not there. So to try and get the best competition we had to go outside of our program and play select. We are considering not playing for the middle school because of the everyone makes it and plays mentality. Which means 30-40 kids and one coach. It's tough because yes he wants to play with his friends but is a complete waste of his time. He plays goalie and faces injury due to weak players in front of him. Have watched him face 40 shots in a game with his PAL team. He's left naked on way too many plays playing teams like Ward Melville, Manhasset, Garden City, and Smithtown. What's everyone's opinion on this.
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Bypassing Middle School Lax for Club Team - 02/06/13 12:24 PM
I'm not the one who asked but I happen to know that 3village doesnt allow you to play both. Not sure of any other towns
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Bypassing Middle School Lax for Club Team - 02/06/13 02:14 PM
Originally Posted by Anonymous
wow! how do you do it?? ...I'll nominate you for Father of the year:/
So all those Man lessons are reserved for the kid who decides to play for the town that he lives in??
sounds less about Lacrosse competition and more about all that polyanna "fair share" talk


No, absolutely not reserved for that kid exclusively. They are some of the reasons on the "other side" of the arguement to play MS ball.You can twist that post into whatever you want in your angry little mind. Bottom line is none of these kids are "too good" to play on MS ball & nothing is a "waste of time", if you learn from it. Lets hear what ridiculousness you can twist that into! BTW, Being "father of the year" might be strange for me.
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Bypassing Middle School Lax for Club Team - 02/06/13 02:28 PM
Originally Posted by Anonymous
fl$... isn't that the organiztion that makes players sign an agreement that they won't play for another team... even their town team?? its certainly "for the Love" of something... but it ain't Lacrosse;)


They must sign that they will not play for another club team during the summer season. It is about committment and loyalty.
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Bypassing Middle School Lax for Club Team - 02/06/13 03:01 PM
wrong - fl$ insists that you play with your PAL team if there is a conflict in the Spring. Get your facts straight.
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Bypassing Middle School Lax for Club Team - 02/06/13 06:36 PM
Three Village does not allow kids to play PAL if they play on a club team.
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Bypassing Middle School Lax for Club Team - 02/06/13 07:37 PM
A goalie playing on a weak middle school team behind a suspect defense, against much stronger middle school competition ...

I say get the boy some good pads and leg protection and have at it! No better preparation than having 40-50 real shots taken at you. And he'll have to be creative and really alert when walking the ball up.

But no way would I put him out there without leg gear.
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Bypassing Middle School Lax for Club Team - 02/06/13 10:23 PM
Originally Posted by Anonymous
A goalie playing on a weak middle school team behind a suspect defense, against much stronger middle school competition ...

I say get the boy some good pads and leg protection and have at it! No better preparation than having 40-50 real shots taken at you. And he'll have to be creative and really alert when walking the ball up.

But no way would I put him out there without leg gear.


Thanks for the reply. He's thick headed and wont wear leg pads. I have tried but just doesnt like them. Again thanks for the reply.
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Bypassing Middle School Lax for Club Team - 02/06/13 10:30 PM
Why is his team facing those caliber teams then ?
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Bypassing Middle School Lax for Club Team - 02/06/13 11:26 PM
Athletic Director puts them in A division for Middle School. W
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Why is his team facing those caliber teams then ?


IME (Suffolk County), MS "leagues" are geographic rather than based on power or school size. My very small school district, where any good players move up to HS in 8th grade, faced very large districts where seemingly no one got moved up. Hence, domination by the large school over us. Also keep in mind that at that age, everyone wants to be the hotshot attack. No one is much interested in playing defense so there isn't a lot of effort trying to protect the goalie from the kids that do have any skill. That's my feeling, anyway, based on what I've seen through 3 kids playing MS lax.
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Bypassing Middle School Lax for Club Team - 02/07/13 12:15 AM
It is not a waste of time, it's just not the best use of time if the goal is to constantly improve.

My kids will play for their JHS Team even though it will be a step back.

If your child is playing for one of the stronger clubs "A" team there is a very good chance that both the coaching and players will be better on the club team.

If you choose not to play for your MS / JHS team just remember that your child can still experience all that is positive about participating in a Team Sport.

The "Town / MS / JHS" only proponents do not have all rights reserved.
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Bypassing Middle School Lax for Club Team - 02/07/13 12:36 AM
Originally Posted by Anonymous
It is not a waste of time, it's just not the best use of time if the goal is to constantly improve.

My kids will play for their JHS Team even though it will be a step back.

If your child is playing for one of the stronger clubs "A" team there is a very good chance that both the coaching and players will be better on the club team.

If you choose not to play for your MS / JHS team just remember that your child can still experience all that is positive about participating in a Team Sport.

The "Town / MS / JHS" only proponents do not have all rights reserved.


Try being a little humble. Your son may be the next Paul Rabil, but maybe, just maybe he's just another kid that is a good lax player on an A club team. Trust me when I say a lot will happen between MS and HS. Kids who are superstars in MS sometimes become just another player by the time HS rolls around. You need to keep that in mind before you make a hasty decision to not play MS lax. Most HS coaches will remember you thumbing your nose at the program. If your son remains a superstar in won't matter. However, if the talent levels out by the time HS comes around (which it usually does) your son could be in a really bad situation. A HS coach who remembers you were TOO good for us....
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Bypassing Middle School Lax for Club Team - 02/07/13 12:49 AM
Its a tough call. He will play middle school but I am most worried about him being injured and his confidence/psyche. As a goalie a lot of your game is in your head. Most goalies can attest to this. When being barraged by shots you tend to go away from your fundamental form and make saves because you are diving all over the place. This opens you up to getting hit in places you normally wouldnt because when playing in a good system 99% of saves are being made by the stick or your in the right position to block it with the chest protector if not saved by the stick. Slides and squeeze the crease/gle are not even taught or done because of skill level being weak.

He does play on a very strong Club team and he works with great goalie coaches.
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Bypassing Middle School Lax for Club Team - 02/07/13 12:58 AM
Originally Posted by Anonymous
In my sons situation we have made every effort to stay and play with the PAL team. Our town will not/does not shun playing for select teams. The playing level is just not there. So to try and get the best competition we had to go outside of our program and play select. We are considering not playing for the middle school because of the everyone makes it and plays mentality. Which means 30-40 kids and one coach. It's tough because yes he wants to play with his friends but is a complete waste of his time. He plays goalie and faces injury due to weak players in front of him. Have watched him face 40 shots in a game with his PAL team. He's left naked on way too many plays playing teams like Ward Melville, Manhasset, Garden City, and Smithtown. What's everyone's opinion on this.


Here at Daly Goalie Training we encourage our goalies to play as much as possible and see as many shots as they can for whichever team needs a goalie. Each time he takes the field he can work on a different aspect of his game and if the defense is weak it guarantees many shots. I see young goalies complaining their defense is horrible after the game and my comment is always the same. That means more shots on you which means more practice FOR you. Keep up the good work!
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Bypassing Middle School Lax for Club Team - 02/07/13 03:07 AM
I agree the more you play and more shots you see the better you get. He's been practicing, training, or playing games 4 days a week for the past 2 years. So he is getting plenty of looks. Do over 300 shots a weekend mornings as father son time. We are doing middle school, PAL, and club. A lot I know but he loves it.
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Bypassing Middle School Lax for Club Team - 02/07/13 06:06 AM
I agree with one thing - if you are in 7th or 8th grade... Why wouldn't a player want to play on his middle school team?? ...its everyday after school running around playing lax w friends... its only the PAL and Club teams schedules that often conflict...

...a choice that makes playing PAL after 6th grade has become a TOTAL waste of time for any experienced, athletic player... YOUR point is lost when you start generalizing and handing out badges of loyalty for playing home town PAL

Did it occur to you that the 7th or 8th grade player who decides to try out for a highly competitive club team without the comfort of his buddy's around , may be considered courageous?? maybe even start learning those "man" lessons that you like so much;)
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Bypassing Middle School Lax for Club Team - 02/07/13 06:22 AM
making a 12 year old sign a commitment waiver as a condition to play for youth club (fl$) team is rediculous...
1 - if its all about loyalty and commitment, why are the players forced to sign??
2- last time I checked, fl$ was not free, nor gauranteeing playing time, nor scholarships

so please stop!! fl$ doesnt have to look too far as to reasons why, even the newest of club teams are rapidly leaving them in the dust...
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Bypassing Middle School Lax for Club Team - 02/07/13 02:10 PM
I think the reason why fl$ had people sign the commitment letter was not to disuade people from playing from their town or PAL team, but, beacuse they were forming a team with a limited number of boys and couldn't have a situation where some boys show up to one tournament and don't show up at the next. If all the boys are committed to playing for the team during the summer tournament season, then the coaches don't have to worry about their team complexion. If a boy can't commit, that leaves a roster spot to one who can.

Also, our experience is that fl$ has committed itself to ensure roughly equal playing time. While that may, in certain circumstances, result in not having the best players out on the field all the time, it helps with every player's development.

Last, beacause they have been able to draw from a relatively deep pool, I have not seen fl$ being left in the dust as you are suggesting. They certainly have not won as many tournaments as the Turtles, but they have a different model and have made their share of finals and have even won a number of tournaments. It's middle school, so I can't imagine winning a tournament at this age should be considered so critical. Rather, player development should be the focus.
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Bypassing Middle School Lax for Club Team - 02/07/13 02:13 PM
I think Three Village makes their 3rd grade parents sign some sort of commitment letter.
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Bypassing Middle School Lax for Club Team - 02/07/13 02:38 PM
Originally Posted by Anonymous
making a 12 year old sign a commitment waiver as a condition to play for youth club (fl$) team is rediculous...
1 - if its all about loyalty and commitment, why are the players forced to sign??
2- last time I checked, fl$ was not free, nor gauranteeing playing time, nor scholarships

so please stop!! fl$ doesnt have to look too far as to reasons why, even the newest of club teams are rapidly leaving them in the dust...


The committment is for the summer team - School and PAL come first during the spring, though not many play PAL in 7th or 8th. Playing time is pretty equal, save for man up and man down situations. No ringers are brought in to fill spots at tournaments. If you've ever heard the directors/coaches speak to the boys, they stress school over everything.
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Bypassing Middle School Lax for Club Team - 02/07/13 03:46 PM
Playing school lacrosse is fun. I agree from a competitive standpoint that it is a waste of time but the kids enjoy it (at least my sons team did). Ask your kid if he wants to play. If he says no , then don't make him play. This will just give the other kids more playing time.
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Bypassing Middle School Lax for Club Team - 02/07/13 04:23 PM
Stop spreading bad information. If you are from 3V you know that is not true. If you are not, I would suggest that you get your information from someone who knows and understands the reasoning and philosophy of 3V Lacrosse.
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Bypassing Middle School Lax for Club Team - 02/07/13 04:33 PM
Originally Posted by Anonymous
I agree with one thing - if you are in 7th or 8th grade... Why wouldn't a player want to play on his middle school team?? ...its everyday after school running around playing lax w friends... its only the PAL and Club teams schedules that often conflict...

...a choice that makes playing PAL after 6th grade has become a TOTAL waste of time for any experienced, athletic player... YOUR point is lost when you start generalizing and handing out badges of loyalty for playing home town PAL

Did it occur to you that the 7th or 8th grade player who decides to try out for a highly competitive club team without the comfort of his buddy's around , may be considered courageous?? maybe even start learning those "man" lessons that you like so much;)


If you looked back & re-read the post it states "in my sons case" & he is a "highly competitive" club player who ALSO played MS ball. It is not a dig towards club teams. It is in regard to parents who feel their child (boy or girl) is too good to play MS ball. There are kids that are VERY good, who have been on club teams for years & play for the middle school for other reasons than fear of retribution by HS coaches & community.
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Bypassing Middle School Lax for Club Team - 02/07/13 05:15 PM
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Playing school lacrosse is fun. I agree from a competitive standpoint that it is a waste of time but the kids enjoy it (at least my sons team did). Ask your kid if he wants to play. If he says no , then don't make him play. This will just give the other kids more playing time.


Agree totally Playing in MS can be FUN leave it up to the Child
that goes for most MS Sports. If your child is competitive they
know the difference between MS sports and Travel or club sports.
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Bypassing Middle School Lax for Club Team - 02/07/13 06:32 PM
Originally Posted by Anonymous
I agree with one thing - if you are in 7th or 8th grade... Why wouldn't a player want to play on his middle school team?? ...its everyday after school running around playing lax w friends... its only the PAL and Club teams schedules that often conflict...

...a choice that makes playing PAL after 6th grade has become a TOTAL waste of time for any experienced, athletic player... YOUR point is lost when you start generalizing and handing out badges of loyalty for playing home town PAL

Did it occur to you that the 7th or 8th grade player who decides to try out for a highly competitive club team without the comfort of his buddy's around , may be considered courageous?? maybe even start learning those "man" lessons that you like so much;)


Always want him to play with friends but we are getting to an age where players can be shooting the ball 70-80mph. Goalies take a lot of abuse and the concern is injury. Your friends are your friends regardless if you play a sport together.if the players on the team can't make the club team he's on them what. This has been the case the last two years. I don't get you reference to being loyal to your PAL team. What's the issue? We are being loyal to his teammates and friends. There are no other goalies in his grade. Where would the team be then? Middle school and PAL.
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Bypassing Middle School Lax for Club Team - 02/07/13 09:11 PM
Any opinions bypassing a school team that plays summer lax (Not free of charge), versus playing on one of the many elite travel teams instead?
Will the school coach hold it against the kid for not wanting to play with the school team during the summer?
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Any opinions bypassing a school team that plays summer lax (Not free of charge), versus playing on one of the many elite travel teams instead?
Will the school coach hold it against the kid for not wanting to play with the school team during the summer?


I'd say it depends on the coach, and the kid. I've had three kids go through various summer leagues and it's generally not taken seriously, especially as the summer progresses. By season's end, everyone has lost interest or gone away and sometimes not even a full squad shows up. Furthermore, the coaches are not supposed to coach the summer league (although some do), so it's a parent or an alumnus coaching so if your intent is to impress a coach you may be wasting your time.

I'd ask other parents in your district to see how it's played out in the past in your area.
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Bypassing Middle School Lax for Club Team - 02/08/13 02:28 AM
What's not true? The 3rd grade commitment letter from 3V or boys in the community not being allowed to play PAL?
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Bypassing Middle School Lax for Club Team - 02/08/13 04:51 PM
Originally Posted by Powderfinger
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Any opinions bypassing a school team that plays summer lax (Not free of charge), versus playing on one of the many elite travel teams instead?
Will the school coach hold it against the kid for not wanting to play with the school team during the summer?


I'd say it depends on the coach, and the kid. I've had three kids go through various summer leagues and it's generally not taken seriously, especially as the summer progresses. By season's end, everyone has lost interest or gone away and sometimes not even a full squad shows up. Furthermore, the coaches are not supposed to coach the summer league (although some do), so it's a parent or an alumnus coaching so if your intent is to impress a coach you may be wasting your time.

I'd ask other parents in your district to see how it's played out in the past in your area.


The problem we have is our varsity coach and an A.D. from a neighboring district coach the summer team and they charge quite a bit without making cuts or holding tryouts. They are also forming a younger "travel" team, and yes-if you don't pay you won't play for the school. My son and several of his friends tried out for and would like to play on legit travel teams but it was strongly "suggested" that they stay with the team to "build the program". Coincidently, the coachs son made varsity as a freshman last year, barely played and got pummeled when he did but that's politics 101.
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Bypassing Middle School Lax for Club Team - 02/08/13 07:43 PM
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Powderfinger
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Any opinions bypassing a school team that plays summer lax (Not free of charge), versus playing on one of the many elite travel teams instead?
Will the school coach hold it against the kid for not wanting to play with the school team during the summer?


I'd say it depends on the coach, and the kid. I've had three kids go through various summer leagues and it's generally not taken seriously, especially as the summer progresses. By season's end, everyone has lost interest or gone away and sometimes not even a full squad shows up. Furthermore, the coaches are not supposed to coach the summer league (although some do), so it's a parent or an alumnus coaching so if your intent is to impress a coach you may be wasting your time.

I'd ask other parents in your district to see how it's played out in the past in your area.


The problem we have is our varsity coach and an A.D. from a neighboring district coach the summer team and they charge quite a bit without making cuts or holding tryouts. They are also forming a younger "travel" team, and yes-if you don't pay you won't play for the school. My son and several of his friends tried out for and would like to play on legit travel teams but it was strongly "suggested" that they stay with the team to "build the program". Coincidently, the coachs son made varsity as a freshman last year, barely played and got pummeled when he did but that's politics 101.
So, I guess that there are many different situations, with extrememely varying factors which contribute. Why do so many folks seem to cite THEIR circumstances, and determine that THEIR course is the only way to go? I would think that the schools position on this matter, the students ability, the PAL teams attributes, the PAL coach's policy, the childs intensity level, and many more points make each scenario a bit different. It may be that what you believe is the "only way to go", may not be the only way to go.
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Bypassing Middle School Lax for Club Team - 02/08/13 07:46 PM
Originally Posted by Anonymous
I agree with one thing - if you are in 7th or 8th grade... Why wouldn't a player want to play on his middle school team?? ...its everyday after school running around playing lax w friends... its only the PAL and Club teams schedules that often conflict...

...a choice that makes playing PAL after 6th grade has become a TOTAL waste of time for any experienced, athletic player... YOUR point is lost when you start generalizing and handing out badges of loyalty for playing home town PAL

Did it occur to you that the 7th or 8th grade player who decides to try out for a highly competitive club team without the comfort of his buddy's around , may be considered courageous?? maybe even start learning those "man" lessons that you like so much;)
Has it not occurred to you that all towns relationships with the local PAL may not be similar to the one in your locale? ...even for a moment?
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Bypassing Middle School Lax for Club Team - 02/08/13 07:48 PM
Originally Posted by Anonymous
making a 12 year old sign a commitment waiver as a condition to play for youth club (fl$) team is rediculous...
1 - if its all about loyalty and commitment, why are the players forced to sign??
2- last time I checked, fl$ was not free, nor gauranteeing playing time, nor scholarships

so please stop!! fl$ doesnt have to look too far as to reasons why, even the newest of club teams are rapidly leaving them in the dust...
IF that is true, then the policy will probably change. It sounds ridiculous, but I try not to believe everything i read!
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Bypassing Middle School Lax for Club Team - 02/09/13 01:52 AM
In our town the varsity coaches are not happy that many players are playing for their club teams for the summer instead of the school team. How many towns have their varsity coaches involved in coaching the summer teams also?Just wondering what others experience has been?
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Bypassing Middle School Lax for Club Team - 02/09/13 02:07 AM
Are the varsity coache coaching the MS kids in the summer ? Then what do they care. Fathers who favor their own kid coach most of those teams.
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Bypassing Middle School Lax for Club Team - 02/09/13 04:03 AM
District coaches are coaching the varsity and JV teams(current 8th graders and up). They care because they are loosing players in the summer to the club teams.
Originally Posted by Anonymous
District coaches are coaching the varsity and JV teams(current 8th graders and up). They care because they are loosing players in the summer to the club teams.


Ugh, that's just wrong. The clubs are where the kids are learning their skills and I wish the school coaches would remember that fact. I'll paint with a broad stroke here but my kids didn't learn bubkus from their school coaches, they learned what they learned from club programs and used those skills to better the school team, not the other way around. Your mileage may vary but that's how it is in my district, where coaches come from the teaching pool first and any teacher can hold on to their coaching position for as long as they want it, regardless of performance.
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Bypassing Middle School Lax for Club Team - 02/09/13 01:26 PM
Walking a fine line here...how do they coach all summer(assume they get some kind of compensation) and not put themselves in a situation of conflict of interest? Also it seems kind of unfair if a player has played on a club team for a few years and now has to decide to leave that program or upset the apple cart at school? Especially in todays early recruiting game. Players need to have the coaches help and if you have a player show up summer before 9th grade for a school team that the school coaches don't know yet,that players is taking a chance of loosing a spot on a travel team that in most cases has played together for a lenghtof time and all year round.Not an easy decision at all.
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Bypassing Middle School Lax for Club Team - 02/09/13 01:42 PM
Originally Posted by Anonymous
District coaches are coaching the varsity and JV teams(current 8th graders and up). They care because they are loosing players in the summer to the club teams.


This must be Team Smithtown JV/Varity, Coaches sent out a feisty email saying that if you play for a club team and can't make a full commitment to Team Smithtown then you'll get your money back. Email also said, if you were planning on going to a catholic school, don't plan on being with Team Smithtown. Now, it never said anything about kids who decide to play with their club teams not getting any play time on the school team, that is the area I would be concerned about.

Interesting that they would send that out, given the fact at the earlier grades kids are allowed to play with clubs and Team Smithtown.
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Bypassing Middle School Lax for Club Team - 02/09/13 02:44 PM
Originally Posted by Powderfinger
Originally Posted by Anonymous
District coaches are coaching the varsity and JV teams(current 8th graders and up). They care because they are loosing players in the summer to the club teams.


Ugh, that's just wrong. The clubs are where the kids are learning their skills and I wish the school coaches would remember that fact. I'll paint with a broad stroke here but my kids didn't learn bubkus from their school coaches, they learned what they learned from club programs and used those skills to better the school team, not the other way around. Your mileage may vary but that's how it is in my district, where coaches come from the teaching pool first and any teacher can hold on to their coaching position for as long as they want it, regardless of performance.


In our schools, the town team in the 7th and 8th grade sent a letter that if you do not play for the town club team, then I will severely affect your chances if Playing varsity! Also, the kids on that town club are forbidden to do any outside LAX.
They are B level at best in a tourney, yet our son plays for a AA club team. Why would thy not recognize the inherent value of letting a kid play high level club LAX and then bringing that experience back to the town team
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Bypassing Middle School Lax for Club Team - 02/09/13 03:10 PM
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Powderfinger
Originally Posted by Anonymous
District coaches are coaching the varsity and JV teams(current 8th graders and up). They care because they are loosing players in the summer to the club teams.


Ugh, that's just wrong. The clubs are where the kids are learning their skills and I wish the school coaches would remember that fact. I'll paint with a broad stroke here but my kids didn't learn bubkus from their school coaches, they learned what they learned from club programs and used those skills to better the school team, not the other way around. Your mileage may vary but that's how it is in my district, where coaches come from the teaching pool first and any teacher can hold on to their coaching position for as long as they want it, regardless of performance.


In our schools, the town team in the 7th and 8th grade sent a letter that if you do not play for the town club team, then I will severely affect your chances if Playing varsity! Also, the kids on that town club are forbidden to do any outside LAX.
They are B level at best in a tourney, yet our son plays for a AA club team. Why would thy not recognize the inherent value of letting a kid play high level club LAX and then bringing that experience back to the town team


If this is true- that is insane!!!!
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Bypassing Middle School Lax for Club Team - 02/09/13 03:21 PM
stop. you're grasping at straws... adolenscent relationships change from day to day, if not minute to minute.
Based on your warped logic... your son's loyalty and relationships will contintue to his choice of community college vs. going away to college... maybe all his wonderful bonds will continue when they interview for the same job crazy
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Bypassing Middle School Lax for Club Team - 02/09/13 03:37 PM
this alarming trend is sounding too familiar - public school coaches are over stepping their bounds... what is EVEN more alarming is the profitiering by school coaches
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Bypassing Middle School Lax for Club Team - 02/09/13 04:17 PM
your points are fair. but keep in mind that if a 12 year old attends the required practices and the fl$ tournaments... what gives fl$ the right to dictate free time choices to a non compensated, 12 yr old amateur athlete??
at the best it's arrogant, at worst, it's exploitive...

therein lies the slippery slope of this trend of tug of war between HS coaches, getting into the play for pay, "or else" business, vs. Club lax hooks... in all senarios, the 7th and 8 th grade player always finishes last...

More kids are deciding; who and where, to play, purely out of fear from backlash from a vindictive coach or organization....
signing such BS agreements, simply validates this trend!

is anyone else sharing these concerns??
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Powderfinger
Originally Posted by Anonymous
District coaches are coaching the varsity and JV teams(current 8th graders and up). They care because they are loosing players in the summer to the club teams.


Ugh, that's just wrong. The clubs are where the kids are learning their skills and I wish the school coaches would remember that fact. I'll paint with a broad stroke here but my kids didn't learn bubkus from their school coaches, they learned what they learned from club programs and used those skills to better the school team, not the other way around. Your mileage may vary but that's how it is in my district, where coaches come from the teaching pool first and any teacher can hold on to their coaching position for as long as they want it, regardless of performance.


In our schools, the town team in the 7th and 8th grade sent a letter that if you do not play for the town club team, then I will severely affect your chances if Playing varsity! Also, the kids on that town club are forbidden to do any outside LAX.
They are B level at best in a tourney, yet our son plays for a AA club team. Why would thy not recognize the inherent value of letting a kid play high level club LAX and then bringing that experience back to the town team


That's just terrible. But it reminded me that my son's lacrosse team (a start-up, we liked it) folded after the a bunch of the boys from two other towns were told they "had" to play for their town/school team. That was the end of my boy's lacrosse career because by that time it was too late to try out for another club. Lucky for him he found a new love with
another sport.
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Bypassing Middle School Lax for Club Team - 02/09/13 05:59 PM
Please identify any sport where the top athletes in the world at that sport have achieved their success by playing / training with “only” their neighbors.

If you want your child to become the best player “that He/She can be” then they must play / train with and against the best “that He /She” can compete with.

My kids will play for their JHS Team but I would not want to hold a player back if that child had the ability to play and train with a much more competitive team. To restrict a player and coerce that player into playing for “only” the Town/JHS Team would be selfish.

I guess in some of these towns, if a child became a Professional or Olympic Athlete that athlete would be shunned by certain people if they had played / trained with a “Club” other than the “Town Club”.
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Bypassing Middle School Lax for Club Team - 02/09/13 06:18 PM
$$$ - say, 20-25 kids at xxx.00 dollars- 4 or tournaments say 1000 per, not a bad part time job to help supplement the , school teacher - not discouraging anyone from making extra cash, but not sure how a school district looks at that.

Let the kids play during their school spring season, if kid is good enough to make one of the li travel teams so be it, they get exposure to other coaching, playing with new kids while making new friends, that's a bad thing???' I think not.

If a school coach holds that against a kid, that is so wrong...
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Bypassing Middle School Lax for Club Team - 02/09/13 06:36 PM
I'm trying to figure out why any parent would let some coach tell them what they will or will not do when it comes to their child playing in High School. As I've heard in ESM, if kids play outside of the town, they are shunned..... If I hope this isn't the case. The affected parents need to bring it to the attention of the administrators in the district.... I wish the varsity coach of my son's town would even think about saying such a thing to me. You guys need to stand up to these coaches.

LaxDad#14

Originally Posted by Powderfinger
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Powderfinger
Originally Posted by Anonymous
District coaches are coaching the varsity and JV teams(current 8th graders and up). They care because they are loosing players in the summer to the club teams.


Ugh, that's just wrong. The clubs are where the kids are learning their skills and I wish the school coaches would remember that fact. I'll paint with a broad stroke here but my kids didn't learn bubkus from their school coaches, they learned what they learned from club programs and used those skills to better the school team, not the other way around. Your mileage may vary but that's how it is in my district, where coaches come from the teaching pool first and any teacher can hold on to their coaching position for as long as they want it, regardless of performance.


In our schools, the town team in the 7th and 8th grade sent a letter that if you do not play for the town club team, then I will severely affect your chances if Playing varsity! Also, the kids on that town club are forbidden to do any outside LAX.
They are B level at best in a tourney, yet our son plays for a AA club team. Why would thy not recognize the inherent value of letting a kid play high level club LAX and then bringing that experience back to the town team


That's just terrible. But it reminded me that my son's lacrosse team (a start-up, we liked it) folded after the a bunch of the boys from two other towns were told they "had" to play for their town/school team. That was the end of my boy's lacrosse career because by that time it was too late to try out for another club. Lucky for him he found a new love with
another sport.
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Bypassing Middle School Lax for Club Team - 02/09/13 06:38 PM
Originally Posted by Anonymous
stop. you're grasping at straws... adolenscent relationships change from day to day, if not minute to minute.
Based on your warped logic... your son's loyalty and relationships will contintue to his choice of community college vs. going away to college... maybe all his wonderful bonds will continue when they interview for the same job crazy



Sad for you/your child that their relationships change so quickly. I have many childhood friends that I have not gone to college with or interviewed for the same job, just kept the bond. My kids, the same thing. Its not "warped logic" to think that you can be an "incredible" lax player & not think you are "too good" to play on your MS team, as well as advance on very competitive level. I would love to see some research on the top Lax players that came out of LI. Did they play MS ball or did their daddys think it was a "waste of time"? Honestly, would like to see the stats
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Bypassing Middle School Lax for Club Team - 02/09/13 07:29 PM
If you are talking about Team Smithtown, I don't understand why you would have a problem with JV/Varsity coaches wanting kids to play with school team. Are you talking in H.S. or middle school ? Smithtown West has been a nationally ranked program for a while, sending many players to top D-1,D-2 and D-3 colleges. If you're son is a good player he will be looked at playing for Smithtown West. Now Smithtown East- not as good, but they still have players play top college lax. I'm sure you already know this. If your son was on one of top 3 club teams in high school and went to S.E. , then I think you may have a decision to make. If he is going to West , I would have him play for H.S. team. If he is talented he will get looked at. The varsity/J.V. coaches want kids to play together for cohesiveness and to learn their system. Is it selfish ? Maybe, but like I said the programs are some of the best on L.I. and I'm sure they want to keep it that way.
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Bypassing Middle School Lax for Club Team - 02/09/13 07:46 PM
Originally Posted by Anonymous
If you are talking about Team Smithtown, I don't understand why you would have a problem with JV/Varsity coaches wanting kids to play with school team. Are you talking in H.S. or middle school ? Smithtown West has been a nationally ranked program for a while, sending many players to top D-1,D-2 and D-3 colleges. If you're son is a good player he will be looked at playing for Smithtown West. Now Smithtown East- not as good, but they still have players play top college lax. I'm sure you already know this. If your son was on one of top 3 club teams in high school and went to S.E. , then I think you may have a decision to make. If he is going to West , I would have him play for H.S. team. If he is talented he will get looked at. The varsity/J.V. coaches want kids to play together for cohesiveness and to learn their system. Is it selfish ? Maybe, but like I said the programs are some of the best on L.I. and I'm sure they want to keep it that way.


A lot of kids (turtles/91/outlaws/express) that have been playing club for years are about to enter HS.. I would think playing AA with club is a lot better than being on East or West teams, and for the coaches to hold it against the kids is ridiculous.. When my kid enters this age, I will look to the club to help him get college looks not these selfish coaches.
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Bypassing Middle School Lax for Club Team - 02/09/13 10:00 PM
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Powderfinger
Originally Posted by Anonymous
District coaches are coaching the varsity and JV teams(current 8th graders and up). They care because they are loosing players in the summer to the club teams.


Ugh, that's just wrong. The clubs are where the kids are learning their skills and I wish the school coaches would remember that fact. I'll paint with a broad stroke here but my kids didn't learn bubkus from their school coaches, they learned what they learned from club programs and used those skills to better the school team, not the other way around. Your mileage may vary but that's how it is in my district, where coaches come from the teaching pool first and any teacher can hold on to their coaching position for as long as they want it, regardless of performance.


In our schools, the town team in the 7th and 8th grade sent a letter that if you do not play for the town club team, then I will severely affect your chances if Playing varsity! Also, the kids on that town club are forbidden to do any outside LAX.
They are B level at best in a tourney, yet our son plays for a AA club team. Why would thy not recognize the inherent value of letting a kid play high level club LAX and then bringing that experience back to the town team


If this is true- that is insane!!!!


You can't make this up...seriously. It's sad. You should see the resentment given the few club players.
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Bypassing Middle School Lax for Club Team - 02/10/13 12:37 AM
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Powderfinger
Originally Posted by Anonymous
District coaches are coaching the varsity and JV teams(current 8th graders and up). They care because they are loosing players in the summer to the club teams.


Ugh, that's just wrong. The clubs are where the kids are learning their skills and I wish the school coaches would remember that fact. I'll paint with a broad stroke here but my kids didn't learn bubkus from their school coaches, they learned what they learned from club programs and used those skills to better the school team, not the other way around. Your mileage may vary but that's how it is in my district, where coaches come from the teaching pool first and any teacher can hold on to their coaching position for as long as they want it, regardless of performance.


In our schools, the town team in the 7th and 8th grade sent a letter that if you do not play for the town club team, then I will severely affect your chances if Playing varsity! Also, the kids on that town club are forbidden to do any outside LAX.
They are B level at best in a tourney, yet our son plays for a AA club team. Why would thy not recognize the inherent value of letting a kid play high level club LAX and then bringing that experience back to the town team


There was an actual letter sent to your home stating that? If that is true, bring it to your school board.
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Bypassing Middle School Lax for Club Team - 02/10/13 12:48 AM
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
If you are talking about Team Smithtown, I don't understand why you would have a problem with JV/Varsity coaches wanting kids to play with school team. Are you talking in H.S. or middle school ? Smithtown West has been a nationally ranked program for a while, sending many players to top D-1,D-2 and D-3 colleges. If you're son is a good player he will be looked at playing for Smithtown West. Now Smithtown East- not as good, but they still have players play top college lax. I'm sure you already know this. If your son was on one of top 3 club teams in high school and went to S.E. , then I think you may have a decision to make. If he is going to West , I would have him play for H.S. team. If he is talented he will get looked at. The varsity/J.V. coaches want kids to play together for cohesiveness and to learn their system. Is it selfish ? Maybe, but like I said the programs are some of the best on L.I. and I'm sure they want to keep it that way.


A lot of kids (turtles/91/outlaws/express) that have been playing club for years are about to enter HS.. I would think playing AA with club is a lot better than being on East or West teams, and for the coaches to hold it against the kids is ridiculous.. When my kid enters this age, I will look to the club to help him get college looks not these selfish coaches.


How is this any different with st Anthony's or Chaminade? There is no difference and if people have a problem with public school coaches then they should also have a problem with the coaches from those two being the directors of a club. The only difference between the school types are the sources of school revenue. Otherwise the exact same conflicts exist and the kids feel the same if not more pressures not to stray, which is just wrong. How many st Anthony's kids play for another club not called express. I bet less than 15% brave souls of the JV and varsity rosters.
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Bypassing Middle School Lax for Club Team - 02/10/13 01:03 AM
Originally Posted by Anonymous
If you are talking about Team Smithtown, I don't understand why you would have a problem with JV/Varsity coaches wanting kids to play with school team. Are you talking in H.S. or middle school ? Smithtown West has been a nationally ranked program for a while, sending many players to top D-1,D-2 and D-3 colleges. If you're son is a good player he will be looked at playing for Smithtown West. Now Smithtown East- not as good, but they still have players play top college lax. I'm sure you already know this. If your son was on one of top 3 club teams in high school and went to S.E. , then I think you may have a decision to make. If he is going to West , I would have him play for H.S. team. If he is talented he will get looked at. The varsity/J.V. coaches want kids to play together for cohesiveness and to learn their system. Is it selfish ? Maybe, but like I said the programs are some of the best on L.I. and I'm sure they want to keep it that way.



Problem with Smithtown is that they are so deep that you could be a kid who gets college looks but they will never know about since you ride the bench in SMithtown. Meanwhile you cold get playing time on a travel team and get lots of looks
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Bypassing Middle School Lax for Club Team - 02/10/13 01:04 AM
Ive heard several of the Turtle kids are going to bypass school ball and play exclusively with the Turtles? Can anyone shed any light on this? If thats true I think its a mistake on their parts. There is something special about playing for your town, your school and your friends. I played a varsity sport in High school and I can honestly say its an experience I wouldnt trade for the world. I understand the Turtles are very good and they will probably get more college looks by playing with them, but I think its possible to do both.
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Bypassing Middle School Lax for Club Team - 02/10/13 02:37 AM
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
If you are talking about Team Smithtown, I don't understand why you would have a problem with JV/Varsity coaches wanting kids to play with school team. Are you talking in H.S. or middle school ? Smithtown West has been a nationally ranked program for a while, sending many players to top D-1,D-2 and D-3 colleges. If you're son is a good player he will be looked at playing for Smithtown West. Now Smithtown East- not as good, but they still have players play top college lax. I'm sure you already know this. If your son was on one of top 3 club teams in high school and went to S.E. , then I think you may have a decision to make. If he is going to West , I would have him play for H.S. team. If he is talented he will get looked at. The varsity/J.V. coaches want kids to play together for cohesiveness and to learn their system. Is it selfish ? Maybe, but like I said the programs are some of the best on L.I. and I'm sure they want to keep it that way.


A lot of kids (turtles/91/outlaws/express) that have been playing club for years are about to enter HS.. I would think playing AA with club is a lot better than being on East or West teams, and for the coaches to hold it against the kids is ridiculous.. When my kid enters this age, I will look to the club to help him get college looks not these selfish coaches.


How is this any different with st Anthony's or Chaminade? There is no difference and if people have a problem with public school coaches then they should also have a problem with the coaches from those two being the directors of a club. The only difference between the school types are the sources of school revenue. Otherwise the exact same conflicts exist and the kids feel the same if not more pressures not to stray, which is just wrong. How many st Anthony's kids play for another club not called express. I bet less than 15% brave souls of the JV and varsity rosters.


No difference, its all wrong!
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Bypassing Middle School Lax for Club Team - 02/10/13 03:58 AM
Why would you not play for your high school team if they are very competitive ? Both Smithtown teams fit this category, with West being a top twenty nationally ranked team. Are most of these turtle kids from the east side of town ? Why would you give up a chance at playing for county and state titles ? You play on Long Island, if you are that good someone will find you. I could see the logic if you didnt have a competitive program. It just seems selfish to me. Ward Melville and W.Islip play together each summer and have had a pretty good record sending kids to D-1 schools and more importantly playing for county/state titles that these kids will cherish for a lifetime. Maybe the me second attitude is why !
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Bypassing Middle School Lax for Club Team - 02/10/13 04:34 AM
thank you for your pity... do you offer a class or a have a video on how develop my son into a loyal, tollirant, compassionate, well rounded Man?? ....or should I skip all that and sign him up for 8th grade PAL as you originally suggested??
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Bypassing Middle School Lax for Club Team - 02/10/13 04:45 AM
While I share your opinion that playing school varsity is a great experience,
As long as its the kids choice ,rather than a turtle coach dictating terms... I think you have to respect the players decision...
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Bypassing Middle School Lax for Club Team - 02/10/13 02:32 PM
Originally Posted by Anonymous
thank you for your pity... do you offer a class or a have a video on how develop my son into a loyal, tollirant, compassionate, well rounded Man?? ....or should I skip all that and sign him up for 8th grade PAL as you originally suggested??


You could use a class or video yourself
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Bypassing Middle School Lax for Club Team - 02/10/13 03:38 PM
This is how I feel about HS JV and Varsity coaches giving attitude to those players that play on a team outside the schools summer team...........this is called BULLYING and as far as we know, there is ZERO tolerance for that kind of behavior in a school environment........lead by example coaches....why should a player be punished for building character, skills and sportsmanship!! They are team players, and exemplify committment, dedication, perserverance and integrity.... all the traits a school coach should want.....Shame on these coaches be a coach and a leader and stop acting as if you are in high school yourself!!
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Bypassing Middle School Lax for Club Team - 02/10/13 04:27 PM
Originally Posted by Anonymous
This is how I feel about HS JV and Varsity coaches giving attitude to those players that play on a team outside the schools summer team...........this is called BULLYING and as far as we know, there is ZERO tolerance for that kind of behavior in a school environment........lead by example coaches....why should a player be punished for building character, skills and sportsmanship!! They are team players, and exemplify committment, dedication, perserverance and integrity.... all the traits a school coach should want.....Shame on these coaches be a coach and a leader and stop acting as if you are in high school yourself!!


Lets turn that around... is it any less of a bullying tactic if the Turtles organizers "strongly suggested, offered or otherwise encouraged" an alternative to the boys intended to bypass their school seasons? What would be the outcome be for a boy who decided to play with his school and bypass the Turtles "school season alternative"? We all know the answer to that. Bullying pressure comes from the clubs too!
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Bypassing Middle School Lax for Club Team - 02/10/13 04:51 PM
A player works hard to earn and keep a spot on a travel team, this is a choice the player made way before entering high school, in fact most have played with travel teams since 5th grade.......why should a player give up that spot? if they committ to playing with a specific team they should keep that committment and therefore that club coach relies on their presence during summer tournaments....it is not that the player does not want to be part of a schools summer tournament team, they do!!!! but when you have earned a spot on a club team, how do you give that up? Why should a high school coach punish a player for keeping a committment? Most players try to do both hoping to keep peace
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Bypassing Middle School Lax for Club Team - 02/10/13 04:56 PM
Agreed, we aren't talking about the Turtles though, we are talking about high school coaches dictating how a player should choose to spend their time over the summer by giving attitude. This player is there 100 percent for their high school team, practices with them gives their all during the school season...........he is dedicated, this is what should be recognized
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Bypassing Middle School Lax for Club Team - 02/10/13 05:01 PM
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
This is how I feel about HS JV and Varsity coaches giving attitude to those players that play on a team outside the schools summer team...........this is called BULLYING and as far as we know, there is ZERO tolerance for that kind of behavior in a school environment........lead by example coaches....why should a player be punished for building character, skills and sportsmanship!! They are team players, and exemplify committment, dedication, perserverance and integrity.... all the traits a school coach should want.....Shame on these coaches be a coach and a leader and stop acting as if you are in high school yourself!!


Lets turn that around... is it any less of a bullying tactic if the Turtles organizers "strongly suggested, offered or otherwise encouraged" an alternative to the boys intended to bypass their school seasons? What would be the outcome be for a boy who decided to play with his school and bypass the Turtles "school season alternative"? We all know the answer to that. Bullying pressure comes from the clubs too!


Hate to pop the bubble, but the turtles have never been asked to not play for their MS teams.
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Bypassing Middle School Lax for Club Team - 02/10/13 09:19 PM
why does the middle school need to ask. Do the all mighty turtle players need written invitation to play with their middle school. Most should have already played in 7th since its an 8th grade team. its about a sense of town pride.
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Bypassing Middle School Lax for Club Team - 02/10/13 09:57 PM
Not sure about those Turtles, but MOST clubs tell their players that school events always come first, we are taking summer people how does that interfere with school, and as far as middle school, I agree that a player should play for their school team, support the school, that same player should also play for their school team throughout high school......a well rounded individual/player can learn something from every coach he or she playes for, but those coaches also have to respect a players decision to advance their skills if that is what they want, and not hold being on a club team during the summer against them when it comes to playing time in the spring!
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Bypassing Middle School Lax for Club Team - 02/10/13 11:12 PM
Well said.
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Not sure about those Turtles, but MOST clubs tell their players that school events always come first, we are taking summer people how does that interfere with school, and as far as middle school, I agree that a player should play for their school team, support the school, that same player should also play for their school team throughout high school......a well rounded individual/player can learn something from every coach he or she playes for, but those coaches also have to respect a players decision to advance their skills if that is what they want, and not hold being on a club team during the summer against them when it comes to playing time in the spring!


The gist of one of the discussions in this thread is that some SCHOOLS field summer teams and if your kid doesn't play for the SCHOOL in the summer then their playing time during the regular season will be negatively affected. So it appears for some school districts, school does affect the summer season.

Posted By: Anonymous Re: Bypassing Middle School Lax for Club Team - 02/11/13 02:33 AM
Here is a thought why are all of us paying 1,300 plus a year to play on the travel teams?? One of the strongest towns on long island if not the strongest run there summer travel teams in house & all volunteer for under $300 a kid everyone that wants in is included. A teams and B teams are formed they travel out of state and kids on the B teams get recruited and play at the next level. It can be done but it requires everyone involved to think of the town program as a whole from K-12 and keep as many kids playing together . Too many parents are only worried about Jr. and dont see the big picture! Start them young, keep them together, and they will wait there turn to step on the Varsity field . Its that simple.
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Bypassing Middle School Lax for Club Team - 02/11/13 03:01 AM
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Here is a thought why are all of us paying 1,300 plus a year to play on the travel teams?? One of the strongest towns on long island if not the strongest run there summer travel teams in house & all volunteer for under $300 a kid everyone that wants in is included. A teams and B teams are formed they travel out of state and kids on the B teams get recruited and play at the next level. It can be done but it requires everyone involved to think of the town program as a whole from K-12 and keep as many kids playing together . Too many parents are only worried about Jr. and dont see the big picture! Start them young, keep them together, and they will wait there turn to step on the Varsity field . Its that simple.


What town?
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Bypassing Middle School Lax for Club Team - 02/11/13 01:43 PM
Everyone that wants in is included?? really??? they don't hold tryouts to pick and choose....oh and your last name isn't important either right????? just asking.....oh and yeah what town is that?
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Bypassing Middle School Lax for Club Team - 02/11/13 02:00 PM
It's not a Town, its a magical place known as Fantasyland.
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Bypassing Middle School Lax for Club Team - 02/11/13 02:43 PM
Three Village ( Ward Melville ) , Northport ?
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Bypassing Middle School Lax for Club Team - 02/11/13 05:03 PM
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Here is a thought why are all of us paying 1,300 plus a year to play on the travel teams?? One of the strongest towns on long island if not the strongest run there summer travel teams in house & all volunteer for under $300 a kid everyone that wants in is included. A teams and B teams are formed they travel out of state and kids on the B teams get recruited and play at the next level. It can be done but it requires everyone involved to think of the town program as a whole from K-12 and keep as many kids playing together . Too many parents are only worried about Jr. and dont see the big picture! Start them young, keep them together, and they will wait there turn to step on the Varsity field . Its that simple.


What town?


WestIslip
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Bypassing Middle School Lax for Club Team - 02/11/13 05:04 PM
This may work in bigger town but usually doesn't in smaller ones. The talent pool isn't as deep. Pain and simple.
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Bypassing Middle School Lax for Club Team - 02/11/13 05:52 PM
What about the middle of the road and weaker teams where kids may not get the exposure, where as, if they are good enough to make a top 5 LI travel club and play at an “A” or “AA” level their chances probably are better getting exposure playing with that team versus their HS summer team.

There area lot more middle of the road and weaker teams versus WI, 3Village, garden city, etc...

Not the kids fault where they go to school.
Those HS coaches should not hold it against them.
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Bypassing Middle School Lax for Club Team - 02/11/13 06:50 PM
Why do high schools coaches act this way? what are they thinking when they blatantly discrimate against a player that does play for an outside club team during the summer as opposed to playing for their school team. If a school team wants to be competitive during their SCHOOL season, why don't they put the better players in, are they trying to prove how powerful they are? It is frustrating and so sad for the player...I guess it is all a part of lifes lessons, there are always going to be people in your life that just aren't fair...don't let that be an obstacle. Maybe if you conform to their dictatorship, you will get playing time in the spring.
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Bypassing Middle School Lax for Club Team - 02/11/13 07:02 PM
... and the stronger players from the "middle of the road and weaker programs" are stronger than the "middle of the road and weaker players" from the stronger programs.

It should not be held against the stronger players if they want to play and train with better players in the off season.

Posted By: Anonymous Re: Bypassing Middle School Lax for Club Team - 02/11/13 07:05 PM
Are you aware that many pre-H.S. WI kids play on clubs nowadays ? There hasn't been defections from the H.S. summer teams because of the quality of the coaching staff. However, I can see that changing in the future if the current H.S. staff leaves/retires and the program drops a notch or two, then some of the top kids may play for the top clubs instead. I have seen a few kids choose the club team when conflicts arise at the pre H.S. level.
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Here is a thought why are all of us paying 1,300 plus a year to play on the travel teams?? One of the strongest towns on long island if not the strongest run there summer travel teams in house & all volunteer for under $300 a kid everyone that wants in is included. A teams and B teams are formed they travel out of state and kids on the B teams get recruited and play at the next level. It can be done but it requires everyone involved to think of the town program as a whole from K-12 and keep as many kids playing together . Too many parents are only worried about Jr. and dont see the big picture! Start them young, keep them together, and they will wait there turn to step on the Varsity field . Its that simple.


What town?


WestIslip
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Bypassing Middle School Lax for Club Team - 02/11/13 07:41 PM
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
If you are talking about Team Smithtown, I don't understand why you would have a problem with JV/Varsity coaches wanting kids to play with school team. Are you talking in H.S. or middle school ? Smithtown West has been a nationally ranked program for a while, sending many players to top D-1,D-2 and D-3 colleges. If you're son is a good player he will be looked at playing for Smithtown West. Now Smithtown East- not as good, but they still have players play top college lax. I'm sure you already know this. If your son was on one of top 3 club teams in high school and went to S.E. , then I think you may have a decision to make. If he is going to West , I would have him play for H.S. team. If he is talented he will get looked at. The varsity/J.V. coaches want kids to play together for cohesiveness and to learn their system. Is it selfish ? Maybe, but like I said the programs are some of the best on L.I. and I'm sure they want to keep it that way.


A lot of kids (turtles/91/outlaws/express) that have been playing club for years are about to enter HS.. I would think playing AA with club is a lot better than being on East or West teams, and for the coaches to hold it against the kids is ridiculous.. When my kid enters this age, I will look to the club to help him get college looks not these selfish coaches.

I believe that all agree that playing AA IS better, for your LACROSSE. The issue being discussed is, it seems to me, "should the school, OR the travel team, OR the PAL determine that your child ONLY play with THEM? OR, is there a way that the child can participate with more than ONE team to gain benefits offered by each? Am i misunderstanding this, as it seems the prior person is?
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Bypassing Middle School Lax for Club Team - 02/11/13 07:59 PM
Are the Syosset Spartans a town team or a club team? or both?
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Bypassing Middle School Lax for Club Team - 02/11/13 11:22 PM
The Spartans are a "Town Travel" team. The team is open to those players who live in the Syosset CSD. They hold tryouts for those players who want a more competitive experience than PAL. However at the younger levels ( I believe up to 6th grade) if you make the SPartans you still have to play PAL. My son is on one f the teams and he enjoys playing w/his school friends.
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Bypassing Middle School Lax for Club Team - 02/12/13 01:10 PM
--"if you make the SPartans you still have to play PAL. My son is on one f the teams and he enjoys playing w/his school friends."

How many elementary schools does Syosset have? Do they break up their PAL Teams by School?
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Bypassing Middle School Lax for Club Team - 02/12/13 01:48 PM
The Syosset 7th grade team traveled to Durham NC this past weekend for Duke opener and scrimmaged some local North Carolina squads.

Thought this was unusual for a PAL/town team. I guess this may have been the tryout/travel team.
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Bypassing Middle School Lax for Club Team - 02/12/13 02:16 PM
Syosset has 7 elementary schools. Surprsingly they only field one or two PAL teams per grade considering how large a district it is, but they have a strong Soccer program and Baseball is very strong as well so I think that draws alot of kids. Also LAX is still "alien" to some parents. Not sure what they do now but when my son played there was one team that pooled all the schools. If you need more info about Syosset PAL go to sylax.org that is there website. I think there is a link on BOC as well.
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Bypassing Middle School Lax for Club Team - 02/12/13 04:04 PM
That is the issue, and I believe it is more about the schools giving players a hard time...been through PAL and coaches never demanded that you just play PAL how could they, it is instructional and all are welcome.....I think the problem lies with the school and high school coaches that put together teams during the summer.....many players do participate in both if they can, but conflicts arise and the player is torn between the school team and the club.....explaining to a high school coach that you can't be at a tournament because it conflicts with an outside team is tough.....there are always repercussions...........
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Bypassing Middle School Lax for Club Team - 02/12/13 04:33 PM
I've seen the current Syosset 7th grade team play (last summer), and they were very, very good. Better than most club and town teams, and I'm sure they compare favorably to even the top clubs.

My son's team lost to them by what I think was 11-1 ... he scored the only goal but the D high-lowed him as he went across the crease. Close to a cheap shot but that was a message sent (and received).

Apparently that group has been together for several years, and it shows. If Syosset is able to keep and train the boys that way in all the grades, then I would say save your money and play for Syosset.
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Bypassing Middle School Lax for Club Team - 02/13/13 02:25 PM
The Syosset Spartans is the perfect combination of town/travel at least on the 7th grade level, not all kids play but most do. almost half the team also plays on select travel teams (express,91,fl$ ect.) they are coached by Syosset HS coaches and play mainly a spring tournament schedule so as to minimize conflicts with summer teams. the people that organize and schedule ask everybody what the summer teams schedules are and if there is a conflict nobody holds it against you if you play with your travel team. It takes work and compromise but it can be done and it is great for the kids that don't play on a summer team to get the extra lacrosse and the experience.
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Bypassing Middle School Lax for Club Team - 02/13/13 03:27 PM
Agreed. The Spartans participate in tournaments that are "front loaded" in the early spring. This year my sons last Spartans tourny is JDRF and his first travel tourny is JDRF. No conflicts otherwise and I think JDRF does town on the first day and travel on the second. He is on the 8th grade team now and loved it last year. Spartan program is execllent, I do suspect that the experience does differ from grade to grade. He played a lot as did all the other boys. Coaching was excellent and the boys had fun and I think we won most of our games as well. Speaking of winning and losing whenever we do lose a game whether its LAX, basketball etc I will usually talk to him about it after in the car to see if he is upset, his response is usually "whats for lunch?" so I think that as parents we have to remember that at this age the kids are not taking losing a game as hard as we think they do.
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Bypassing Middle School Lax for Club Team - 02/13/13 06:18 PM
maybe it works in syosset cause the h.s. coach also runs a travel summer program (tribe now with the dune dogs)so it might be a bit hipocritacal to tell a boy to only play for the school.in my sons district the h.s. coaches have a very small group of boys to work with (only 18 showed for summer tryouts)so they hold a grudge against the boys who choose to play club.very disturbing for all the boys and parents involved. the ad says the answer to pay for play and all the other issues is that if enough parents complain the district will just close the program so deal with it. life at a small school sadly phil
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Bypassing Middle School Lax for Club Team - 02/13/13 06:43 PM
Coach Calabria has nothing to do with the Syosset Spartans now or in the past.
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Bypassing Middle School Lax for Club Team - 02/13/13 07:53 PM
Originally Posted by Anonymous
maybe it works in syosset cause the h.s. coach also runs a travel summer program (tribe now with the dune dogs)so it might be a bit hipocritacal to tell a boy to only play for the school.in my sons district the h.s. coaches have a very small group of boys to work with (only 18 showed for summer tryouts)so they hold a grudge against the boys who choose to play club.very disturbing for all the boys and parents involved. the ad says the answer to pay for play and all the other issues is that if enough parents complain the district will just close the program so deal with it. life at a small school sadly phil


Get that AD to put that in an email. Then forward it to the superindendent of your district, with a copy to newsday and news 12. Ask all their thoughts on this little conflict of interest. Sit back, and watch the fireworks... Can you say, new coach and new AD???
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Coach Calabria has nothing to do with the Syosset Spartans now or in the past.
Note that John Calabria is part of the Long Island Lacrosse Academy (see the Sponsor's Panel above) and is offering two summer clinics under the LILA banner. Based on my conversations with him, this is all very independent of the Syosset club program.
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Bypassing Middle School Lax for Club Team - 02/13/13 08:37 PM
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
maybe it works in syosset cause the h.s. coach also runs a travel summer program (tribe now with the dune dogs)so it might be a bit hipocritacal to tell a boy to only play for the school.in my sons district the h.s. coaches have a very small group of boys to work with (only 18 showed for summer tryouts)so they hold a grudge against the boys who choose to play club.very disturbing for all the boys and parents involved. the ad says the answer to pay for play and all the other issues is that if enough parents complain the district will just close the program so deal with it. life at a small school sadly phil


Get that AD to put that in an email. Then forward it to the superindendent of your district, with a copy to newsday and news 12. Ask all their thoughts on this little conflict of interest. Sit back, and watch the fireworks... Can you say, new coach and new AD???


Then why is it ok for the St Anthonys and Chaminade coaches to be directors of Express? Answer - its not. I've spoken to several St anthonys parents whos boys are burried on the B or C team with the Express and are concerned about the problems their son would face if they left for an "A" team with another program. Its a big problem and I don't understand why the AD of those schools don't .
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Bypassing Middle School Lax for Club Team - 02/13/13 08:42 PM
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
maybe it works in syosset cause the h.s. coach also runs a travel summer program (tribe now with the dune dogs)so it might be a bit hipocritacal to tell a boy to only play for the school.in my sons district the h.s. coaches have a very small group of boys to work with (only 18 showed for summer tryouts)so they hold a grudge against the boys who choose to play club.very disturbing for all the boys and parents involved. the ad says the answer to pay for play and all the other issues is that if enough parents complain the district will just close the program so deal with it. life at a small school sadly phil


Get that AD to put that in an email. Then forward it to the superindendent of your district, with a copy to newsday and news 12. Ask all their thoughts on this little conflict of interest. Sit back, and watch the fireworks... Can you say, new coach and new AD???


Syosset Spartans is a town travel team program for district kids grades 4-8 run by Syosset Youth Lacrosse (District Dads). Coach Calabria has nothing to do with the Syosset youth program and/or Syosset Spartans.
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Bypassing Middle School Lax for Club Team - 02/13/13 08:48 PM
Calabria is a good guy and keeps getting dragged into this post
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Calabria is a good guy and keeps getting dragged into this post
Agreed. BOTC has set the record straight on the subject.
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Bypassing Middle School Lax for Club Team - 02/13/13 09:04 PM
Spartans parent here Cage and you are correct as are the posters defending Coach C. People want to know about Spartans program contact Sylax. As I posted before I only have good things to say about it, nor have I heard of any pressure to go to LILA or play on a coach's summer team. There are boys on my sons team playing on at least 4 different summer teams.
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Bypassing Middle School Lax for Club Team - 02/13/13 09:44 PM
Originally Posted by CageSage
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Calabria is a good guy and keeps getting dragged into this post
Agreed. BOTC has set the record straight on the subject.


Calabria is not directly involved in the Spartans but has been very supportive of the concept, members of his staff coach the Spartan's teams and it flows nicely into the HS summer team that has many kids playing for Syosset HS summer team and travel summer teams - If you are lucky enough to live in Syosset you will have the opportunity to play a lot of lacrosse.
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Bypassing Middle School Lax for Club Team - 02/14/13 12:42 AM
Channy, lets it be known that if you play for St. Ant.s and DON'T play for the Express, it's going to be a problem for you. I don't know how the School lets him get away with this but it has been going on for years.
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Bypassing Middle School Lax for Club Team - 02/14/13 01:01 AM
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by CageSage
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Calabria is a good guy and keeps getting dragged into this post
Agreed. BOTC has set the record straight on the subject.


Calabria is not directly involved in the Spartans but has been very supportive of the concept, members of his staff coach the Spartan's teams and it flows nicely into the HS summer team that has many kids playing for Syosset HS summer team and travel summer teams - If you are lucky enough to live in Syosset you will have the opportunity to play a lot of lacrosse.



Agreed...... Syosset has top notch coaches, and parents that not only care but take their lacrosse seriously . Looks like their well run PAL youth program, Spartans travel program and their middle and high school programs are all working well together with great results...... Nassau County Champions last year and Long Island Champions a few years ago. My town and many other towns would be smart to take a close look at what Syosset is doing starting at a young age with their kids and how their programs are run..... I'm sure all of our towns would benefit to take some lessons from Syosset.
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Bypassing Middle School Lax for Club Team - 02/14/13 01:07 AM
Originally Posted by Anonymous
The Syosset 7th grade team traveled to Durham NC this past weekend for Duke opener and scrimmaged some local North Carolina squads.

Thought this was unusual for a PAL/town team. I guess this may have been the tryout/travel team.



Yes that was the 7th grade Syosset Spartans Travel Team...... Although it is basically the same team that always played PAL together
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Bypassing Middle School Lax for Club Team - 02/14/13 02:28 AM
Not true comment. MC tells boys in the JV meetings that while he is proud of the Express teams he plays the best players at St A regardless of travel club. There are a lot of very talented players NOT on orange teams that have to play elsewhere to compete in Elite brackets during summer because orange teams hold only so many roster spots and many are on teams due to their connections or daddy influences.
He does not need every player in Express. He has a plethora of kids looking to make any of the Blue, gray and white teams that don't mind cause their skills are NOT orange level. Not every great player can make an orange team and if kids go to other clubs to play at Higher summer levels to get looks it's part of the process .
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Bypassing Middle School Lax for Club Team - 02/14/13 12:01 PM
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
The Syosset 7th grade team traveled to Durham NC this past weekend for Duke opener and scrimmaged some local North Carolina squads.

Thought this was unusual for a PAL/town team. I guess this may have been the tryout/travel team.



Yes that was the 7th grade Syosset Spartans Travel Team...... Although it is basically the same team that always played PAL together


How did they do?
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Bypassing Middle School Lax for Club Team - 02/14/13 03:17 PM
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
The Syosset 7th grade team traveled to Durham NC this past weekend for Duke opener and scrimmaged some local North Carolina squads.

Thought this was unusual for a PAL/town team. I guess this may have been the tryout/travel team.



Yes that was the 7th grade Syosset Spartans Travel Team...... Although it is basically the same team that always played PAL together


Syosset has 2 PAL teams and while most kids that play on the Spartans play on the same PAL team some play on the other team, not all of the Spartans 7th grade played PAL at least two travel players played Spartans and not PAL and also they have a few kids that played PAL and not Spartans, that really is the beauty of the organization is that you play what works for you but you have a lot of options
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Bypassing Middle School Lax for Club Team - 02/14/13 08:54 PM
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Syosset has 2 PAL teams and while most kids that play on the Spartans play on the same PAL team some play on the other team, not all of the Spartans 7th grade played PAL at least two travel players played Spartans and not PAL and also they have a few kids that played PAL and not Spartans, that really is the beauty of the organization is that you play what works for you but you have a lot of options
Syosset seems like it is a club structured to handle club, PAL, and varsity requirements. Impressive to read about all of the pieces being in one place at one time.
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Bypassing Middle School Lax for Club Team - 02/16/13 10:36 PM
Its a town and we do it right. No travel teams and yes we do get recruited to div 1 schools without paying a million dollars and running every day of our lives for lax. It is also a Magical experience when our boys play side by side all year round. It does happen and virtually for free and effortless.
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Bypassing Middle School Lax for Club Team - 02/17/13 02:57 PM
Question about the Syosset Summer Lax program - this does sound good so help out if you know the answers to any of these below questions because it is so rare that a town can successfully pull this off:
Does anyone know if the HS Summer Tournament teams are playing in the Elite division or B division?
Do individual players attend recruiting camps?
What is the cost per player for the summer tournament team?

It would be interesting to find out is the system makes the player or do a few key players make the system look good...
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Bypassing Middle School Lax for Club Team - 02/17/13 04:03 PM
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Its a town and we do it right. No travel teams and yes we do get recruited to div 1 schools without paying a million dollars and running every day of our lives for lax. It is also a Magical experience when our boys play side by side all year round. It does happen and virtually for free and effortless.


My son has a kid from syosset on his travel team...
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Bypassing Middle School Lax for Club Team - 02/17/13 06:43 PM
There are Syosset kids on EVERY travel program at ALL ages.
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Bypassing Middle School Lax for Club Team - 02/17/13 07:16 PM
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Question about the Syosset Summer Lax program - this does sound good so help out if you know the answers to any of these below questions because it is so rare that a town can successfully pull this off:
Does anyone know if the HS Summer Tournament teams are playing in the Elite division or B division?
Do individual players attend recruiting camps?
What is the cost per player for the summer tournament team?

It would be interesting to find out is the system makes the player or do a few key players make the system look good...


This is a middle school topic that was started, not high school. However....

Elite or B division-- depends on grade
Recruiting camps-- yes, as individuals, many do, representing Syosset
Costs for summer team-- Youth travel Spartans team - very reasonable fee

Many kids In Syosset at every age level play club travel in addition to PAL, school and town travel.

Players benefit the system and the system benefits the players.
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Bypassing Middle School Lax for Club Team - 02/18/13 05:30 PM
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Question about the Syosset Summer Lax program - this does sound good so help out if you know the answers to any of these below questions because it is so rare that a town can successfully pull this off:
Does anyone know if the HS Summer Tournament teams are playing in the Elite division or B division?
Do individual players attend recruiting camps?
What is the cost per player for the summer tournament team?

It would be interesting to find out is the system makes the player or do a few key players make the system look good...


This is a middle school topic that was started, not high school. However....

Elite or B division-- depends on grade
Recruiting camps-- yes, as individuals, many do, representing Syosset
Costs for summer team-- Youth travel Spartans team - very reasonable fee

Many kids In Syosset at every age level play club travel in addition to PAL, school and town travel.

Players benefit the system and the system benefits the players.


Is the Syosset love in over yet? Done patting each other on the back?
BTW, exactly what elite tournaments have these AMAZING teams won? Have never seen or heard of them in any of the the tourneys that are of note. The players that make the difference on any of those teams are those who play club ball outside of the town system I am sure. It's how it is in most townie teams. They take credit for the hard work of the few who actually go an play LAX all year and benefit from that experience, just as the MS teams do now.
So back on topic; I do not feel that MS ball benefits the elite club player who has to play down in order to represent the school team. Put the pom-poms away until high school. That is where they all catch up and can enjoy the "school experience" as a unit. Until then, MS ball is a waste of time for the advanced player. Keep them on their club teams and keep them getting better. It pays off in the end.
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Bypassing Middle School Lax for Club Team - 02/18/13 06:01 PM
Unfortunately for some of us, we have to play middle school or face the consequences from the JV/Varsity coaches. Just the way it is.....
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Bypassing Middle School Lax for Club Team - 02/18/13 06:05 PM
But the questions also rolls over to high school and the high school coaches. I agree that if a player wants to improve and compete at a higher level they should play club ball, but what happens during the summer when the high school coaches put together school teams to compete in tournaments and your child can't committ to being there 100 percent of the time because of conflicts in tournaments. Our experience has been that the child that plays for a team outside of the school venue is "punished" for doing so. Their playing time with the high school team is reduced even though their skills are clearly more advanced they play second string. What should a player do? This type of behavior makes the player and the parent feel horrible. As a parent you watch all of their hardwork, the time and committment go down the tubes because the player sits on the sidelines because he chooses to play for a travel team during the summer.
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Bypassing Middle School Lax for Club Team - 02/18/13 06:57 PM
Originally Posted by Anonymous
But the questions also rolls over to high school and the high school coaches. I agree that if a player wants to improve and compete at a higher level they should play club ball, but what happens during the summer when the high school coaches put together school teams to compete in tournaments and your child can't committ to being there 100 percent of the time because of conflicts in tournaments. Our experience has been that the child that plays for a team outside of the school venue is "punished" for doing so. Their playing time with the high school team is reduced even though their skills are clearly more advanced they play second string. What should a player do? This type of behavior makes the player and the parent feel horrible. As a parent you watch all of their hardwork, the time and committment go down the tubes because the player sits on the sidelines because he chooses to play for a travel team during the summer.
I don't know about boys lacrosse, but in girls lacrosse ( and I'm sure it's the same ) It almost does not matter what happens in the spring. Almost without exception, every college coach is trying to win there own games to worry about High School games, and M.S. games count even less. Being in the middle of the recruiting experience this year I can say without question school ball mattes very little unless you are in G.C. Manhasset, St. Anthony, Chaminade, W.I. , or Sacred Hart.
In my opinion to the original question, why would you not want your kid on the field as often as possible. Even if you kid has to "play down" ( by the way that sounds really elitist, what is your kid to good for everyone els) what he/she is showing is school/team spirit, and every coach on earth wants to see that.
In the summer If your son /daughter wants to play club over H.S. team ball then let them, despite any repercussions from the coach. In the end remember, colleges are not looking to recruit until summer, so if you kid plays second string not first, who cares the only one getting hurt is the H.S. coach, he looks foolish and petty for sitting talented players.
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Bypassing Middle School Lax for Club Team - 02/18/13 07:52 PM
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Unfortunately for some of us, we have to play middle school or face the consequences from the JV/Varsity coaches. Just the way it is.....


That is just unacceptable yet true and unfortunately, in spite of how i feel about MS ball, it will be the case for my son as well

The kids playing town ball have been told if they have any desire to play varsity, then they better play for the town summer team.

The hard part is that there will much resentment when the club team players come back to school ball and take the spots that the" town team only" team players thought they had locked up. It's already happening when our club players come back to play MS ball

Coaches will play the players who help the team win. Be they town or club players, yet the town parents have guzzled the Kool aide and believe their kids will be rewarded with varsity spots for staying with the town team only.

That will make for some interesting political banter when it doesn't happen.
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Bypassing Middle School Lax for Club Team - 02/18/13 10:21 PM
Not in our district my friend, but you are correct about your last name, it matters...... I guess you just have to be a member of "that good ole boy club" we aren't included. Our district doesn't play the best that is why they will never improve.
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Bypassing Middle School Lax for Club Team - 02/19/13 03:52 AM
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Unfortunately for some of us, we have to play middle school or face the consequences from the JV/Varsity coaches. Just the way it is.....


I am very confused, here we say the kids may get punished for not playing ms/hs summer ball, but dont you want your kids to gel well with each other and dont you want them to play togther as much as possible.


If your kid is that good he could help the boys become better are you so arrogant as to not want your kid doing that.

then you may say he is playing to much, bull, because if he was invited to play with an elite all star team right after he just played with his AAA team you'd be all in, but ill play along how much is too much for a 13 - 16 yo.

I say you try and work out both. I have been around long enough to see players switching shirts on the sidelines to head out from their club win to play for their town (two fields over).

I have seen youth players be affiliated with 2 club teams and do the same thing.

why not have your cake and eat it too.


Posted By: Anonymous Re: Bypassing Middle School Lax for Club Team - 02/19/13 01:14 PM
Most try to do both, but some times it isn't possible especially when your not at the same location. Trust me, my child doesn't think he is better than anyone else, but he is made to feel like he isn't part of a school team because he chooses to play club ball, that is what we are talking about!!!
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Bypassing Middle School Lax for Club Team - 02/19/13 02:30 PM
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Most try to do both, but some times it isn't possible especially when your not at the same location. Trust me, my child doesn't think he is better than anyone else, but he is made to feel like he isn't part of a school team because he chooses to play club ball, that is what we are talking about!!!
My daughter is made to feel the same way, so I understand what your saying. My advice to my daughter is to do what will get you closer to her goal, and do your best to shrug off the nasty comments she receives at school. Though it's hard for a 12-17 year old to understand, Middle and High School will come to an end and it's more important to do the thing that will further there aspirations, than to cave into peer pressure, or pressure from a coach that knows his role in the recruiting process is going the way of the dinosaur. Stay strong for your kid, guide them to do the right thing for them, not the easy one
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Bypassing Middle School Lax for Club Team - 02/19/13 10:25 PM
What do you do when the HS coach tells 7&8th graders that if they want to play in HS they should play for "their" club team in the summer?
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Bypassing Middle School Lax for Club Team - 02/20/13 12:16 AM
play for the club of your choice. H.S. ball does not mean that much. Tell the school superintendent. Do what is best for your kid ,not for the H.S. coach
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Bypassing Middle School Lax for Club Team - 02/20/13 09:47 PM
Originally Posted by Anonymous
play for the club of your choice. H.S. ball does not mean that much. Tell the school superintendent. Do what is best for your kid ,not for the H.S. coach


I don't think the St Anthony's or Chaminade superintendent (or equivalent) will ever do anything to stop the pressure (overt or covert) that those coaches use to force boys to play Express. Its still very wrong for those coaches to do both.
Originally Posted by Anonymous
play for the club of your choice. H.S. ball does not mean that much. Tell the school superintendent. Do what is best for your kid ,not for the H.S. coach


I dunno, from what I've read here and seen in Newsday and rankings, some schools are highly ranked and I'd think that does matter for recruiting. But then again, could it be that those ranked schools are those running the top notch summer programs? It seems Smithown West does, WI, St. A's. I'm just guessing, I'm in a small district and thankfully haven't had to make this choice.
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Bypassing Middle School Lax for Club Team - 02/21/13 03:06 AM
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
play for the club of your choice. H.S. ball does not mean that much. Tell the school superintendent. Do what is best for your kid ,not for the H.S. coach


I don't think the St Anthony's or Chaminade superintendent (or equivalent) will ever do anything to stop the pressure (overt or covert) that those coaches use to force boys to play Express. Its still very wrong for those coaches to do both.

there is a big difference between public and private school with regard to conflict of interest, when you sign on for chaminade or st. a it all comes with the territory - no one is holding a gun to your head, you don't like it you leave. public school conflict of interest is another story and the fact that they're paid with tax payer funds and then find the need to manipulate thier students for extra money is disgusting
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Bypassing Middle School Lax for Club Team - 02/21/13 03:48 PM
Maybe HS ball doesnt matter in your town, come down to GC or Manhasset for that matter and you will see a different side of this argument.
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Bypassing Middle School Lax for Club Team - 02/21/13 05:01 PM
Don't most kids from GC and Man play outside the town? Every travel team I see is full of kids with helmets from these towns. Are these towns now putting pressure on the kids to play only with the town over the summer?
If so, it kind of flys in the face of the reasoning to go town only. GC was number one team in the country and the kids all played on outside travel teams.
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Bypassing Middle School Lax for Club Team - 02/21/13 05:32 PM
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Don't most kids from GC and Man play outside the town? Every travel team I see is full of kids with helmets from these towns. Are these towns now putting pressure on the kids to play only with the town over the summer?
If so, it kind of flys in the face of the reasoning to go town only. GC was number one team in the country and the kids all played on outside travel teams.


GC now guilty of attempting to do so
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Bypassing Middle School Lax for Club Team - 02/21/13 05:35 PM
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Don't most kids from GC and Man play outside the town? Every travel team I see is full of kids with helmets from these towns. Are these towns now putting pressure on the kids to play only with the town over the summer?
If so, it kind of flys in the face of the reasoning to go town only. GC was number one team in the country and the kids all played on outside travel teams.


Is Garden City #1 in the country?
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Bypassing Middle School Lax for Club Team - 02/21/13 05:52 PM
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Don't most kids from GC and Man play outside the town? Every travel team I see is full of kids with helmets from these towns. Are these towns now putting pressure on the kids to play only with the town over the summer?
If so, it kind of flys in the face of the reasoning to go town only. GC was number one team in the country and the kids all played on outside travel teams.


Not the other posters point (I believe)

someone mentioned HS doesn't matter. I think many (GC, Manhasset) and many others would disagree. Many do play outside the town for club teams, however the town is still very strong as these players contribute to both. If you are in a good district/with a good program, HS matters very much, and the benefits of finding a way to contribute can be realized in middle school with support from the top down. Some are fortunate in that players can do both with appreciation of the best end result.

All players/families find there place- town only, town/HS and club, club "#" and private HS. You have to be able to assess your own situation and do what is best. Not to say it is easy or always available.
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Bypassing Middle School Lax for Club Team - 02/21/13 09:00 PM
I would be surpised if they are in the top five this year.
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Bypassing Middle School Lax for Club Team - 02/21/13 09:34 PM
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
play for the club of your choice. H.S. ball does not mean that much. Tell the school superintendent. Do what is best for your kid ,not for the H.S. coach


I don't think the St Anthony's or Chaminade superintendent (or equivalent) will ever do anything to stop the pressure (overt or covert) that those coaches use to force boys to play Express. Its still very wrong for those coaches to do both.

there is a big difference between public and private school with regard to conflict of interest, when you sign on for chaminade or st. a it all comes with the territory - no one is holding a gun to your head, you don't like it you leave. public school conflict of interest is another story and the fact that they're paid with tax payer funds and then find the need to manipulate thier students for extra money is disgusting


I disagree strongly. It makes no difference how the school is funded - either taxes or tuition. The conflict of interest is exactly the same. It shouldn't "come with the territory" no matter how the school is funded. There are some brave souls who play for St. Anthonys or Chaminade and also for fl$ and other clubs not called Express. Good for them for not caving into the pressure. But the pressure from St. A's or Chaminade shouldn't exist in the first place. The powers that be at St. A's and Chaminade should stop this - but they won't.
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Bypassing Middle School Lax for Club Team - 02/21/13 09:37 PM
Originally Posted by Anonymous
I would be surpised if they are in the top five this year.


get ready to be surprised and impressed....sorry...just the way it is. no need to argue that point
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Bypassing Middle School Lax for Club Team - 02/21/13 09:52 PM
Anyone who doesn't believe that HS ball matters to these kids needs to come down to the Woodstick Classic. I believe its in Manhasset this year, maybe Cage can confirm.
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Anyone who doesn't believe that HS ball matters to these kids needs to come down to the Woodstick Classic. I believe its in Manhasset this year, maybe Cage can confirm.
The 123rd Edition of the Woodstick Classic will be played on April 27th with the faceoff planned for 7:00pm. This year's Classic will be held at Manhasset High School. Circle this non-league match for your Saturday night date!
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Bypassing Middle School Lax for Club Team - 02/21/13 10:00 PM
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Maybe HS ball doesnt matter in your town, come down to GC or Manhasset for that matter and you will see a different side of this argument.
If your going to jump in the middle of a conversation, at least go back and read the beginning statement. G.C. Manhasset, St.Anthony, W.I. were all originally singled out as the few H.S. teams that still matter because almost every coach pays attention to the teams with such a rich history in the game. Sachem, E.S.M., S.W.R. levittown , E.I. ect... not so much
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Bypassing Middle School Lax for Club Team - 02/21/13 10:18 PM
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Anyone who doesn't believe that HS ball matters to these kids needs to come down to the Woodstick Classic. I believe its in Manhasset this year, maybe Cage can confirm.

The issue on both the boys and girls side is the coaches leveraging there position as teachers/coaches with the students via pay for play summer teams and camps and it shouldn't be allowed, it starts as young as 10 years old - kids are told they have to play for a particular summer team or else...
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Bypassing Middle School Lax for Club Team - 02/22/13 02:22 PM
The recent success of Garden City is interesting, because it highlights the benefits of both middle school and club teams, and I think pretty much disproves the theory that your "elite" kid shouldn't play for the middle school program. Allow me to elaborate ...

The classes of 2011 and 2012 in Garden City had the benefit of a couple of dads starting their own club team, called the Sharks. I believe this was sometime in 2005 or 2006. The Sharks were loosely affiliated with Gordon Purdie's Checkmate program at Adelphi (which is in GC). At least initially, the boys who played for the Sharks were told they could NOT play for GC Middle School in the spring. This allowed for more boys to play lax for GCMS starting in 7th grade, because many of the "studs" were already playing for the Sharks.

You now had a situation where a LOT of boys were playing a lot of lax for very good coaches. The Sharks were dominant. The stuff of legend really. But the GCMS team was still quite good, and some of those GCMS-only players became very, very good players for the High School.

At some point the Sharks relented and removed the "you can't play for the middle school" rule, and there was some back and forth, especially in the summer. It became a little weird when some of the GC school coaches started appearing as Sharks coaches (at least in print), and I can only assume that this indicates there were no hard feelings on the part of the GC school coaches.

The rest is history. GC being #1 in the country is the direct result of two competing programs, GCMS and the Sharks, producing a lot of great lax players, who then combined in High School to create a dominant team, deep with talent.

What remains to be seen is whether this success will continue, since I believe all the original Sharks players have now graduated.

On another note: I don't want to add to the "Syosset lovefest", but they appear to be on the same path -- a strong travel "club" team for boys who live in the town, plus what I assume is a good middle school program, with at least some cooperation among the two groups.

But hey, what do I know!



Posted By: Anonymous Re: Bypassing Middle School Lax for Club Team - 02/22/13 03:04 PM
Originally Posted by Anonymous
The recent success of Garden City is interesting, because it highlights the benefits of both middle school and club teams, and I think pretty much disproves the theory that your "elite" kid shouldn't play for the middle school program. Allow me to elaborate ...

The classes of 2011 and 2012 in Garden City had the benefit of a couple of dads starting their own club team, called the Sharks. I believe this was sometime in 2005 or 2006. The Sharks were loosely affiliated with Gordon Purdie's Checkmate program at Adelphi (which is in GC). At least initially, the boys who played for the Sharks were told they could NOT play for GC Middle School in the spring. This allowed for more boys to play lax for GCMS starting in 7th grade, because many of the "studs" were already playing for the Sharks.

You now had a situation where a LOT of boys were playing a lot of lax for very good coaches. The Sharks were dominant. The stuff of legend really. But the GCMS team was still quite good, and some of those GCMS-only players became very, very good players for the High School.

At some point the Sharks relented and removed the "you can't play for the middle school" rule, and there was some back and forth, especially in the summer. It became a little weird when some of the GC school coaches started appearing as Sharks coaches (at least in print), and I can only assume that this indicates there were no hard feelings on the part of the GC school coaches.

The rest is history. GC being #1 in the country is the direct result of two competing programs, GCMS and the Sharks, producing a lot of great lax players, who then combined in High School to create a dominant team, deep with talent.

What remains to be seen is whether this success will continue, since I believe all the original Sharks players have now graduated.

On another note: I don't want to add to the "Syosset lovefest", but they appear to be on the same path -- a strong travel "club" team for boys who live in the town, plus what I assume is a good middle school program, with at least some cooperation among the two groups.

But hey, what do I know!


Not to be a d%&* but the term "stuff of legends" really does not apply to mid school travel team under any circumstances
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Bypassing Middle School Lax for Club Team - 02/22/13 04:49 PM
Yes very similiar to what is happening in Syosset. A few years back some dads started the Spartans for a select group of MS boys (current 2016 or 2015 I believe) and since than it has been expanding to include grades 3-8. As far a Syosset having a good middle school program, I would disgaree. District has two middle schools so it splits the better players up. So except for a few very good 8th graders who will be moved up to JV, the MS program is basically developmental. The better Syosset MS players while still playing MS ball will play Spartans and are also free to play club (they set up Spartans so the 2 schedules do not conflict). I am not there yet with my MS son so I cannot comment on "pressure" to play on HS summer team.
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Bypassing Middle School Lax for Club Team - 02/22/13 05:14 PM
Um, those GCMS-Sharks boys ended up at Harvard, Yale, Penn, Colgate, Maryland, Amherst and Penn State ... etc. etc. I believe they had 3 HS All-Americans (maybe more). I'm not sure they ever lost a game, although they must have at some point over the middle school years into early high school.

This started back in 2005-06. You know, before the club team explosion and before you were paying attention.

Go ask MC if he remembers that team!
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Bypassing Middle School Lax for Club Team - 02/22/13 09:04 PM
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Um, those GCMS-Sharks boys ended up at Harvard, Yale, Penn, Colgate, Maryland, Amherst and Penn State ... etc. etc. I believe they had 3 HS All-Americans (maybe more). I'm not sure they ever lost a game, although they must have at some point over the middle school years into early high school.

This started back in 2005-06. You know, before the club team explosion and before you were paying attention.

Go ask MC if he remembers that team!


okay, go to any lacrosse venue today and ask" hey, remember that that 2005 Shark Team from Long Island" and see how many people know about it. When your the "stuff of legends " your remembered by the average player in your sport
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Bypassing Middle School Lax for Club Team - 02/22/13 10:15 PM
The recent success of GC ? Where have you been or are you a Lax expert or critic because your kids play now.
The Sharks actually had six All Americans at the same time:

Dwyer
Jahelka
Mahon
Fisher
Berkery
Marino
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Bypassing Middle School Lax for Club Team - 02/22/13 11:48 PM
"The recent success of GC ? Where have you been or are you a Lax expert or critic because your kids play now."

I'm only referring to the last two years as "recent". GC is always good, but #1 national rankings are rare. And there's a reason the last two classes were so dominant.

And if I know what was happening in 2005, I've been around longer than most here, and likely much longer than you.
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Bypassing Middle School Lax for Club Team - 02/23/13 12:57 AM
Please explain.

Did the boys listed above not play for their local JHS Team and instead play and train with a "club team" or did they play club in addition to their JHS team?

Posted By: Anonymous Re: Bypassing Middle School Lax for Club Team - 02/23/13 01:16 AM
2005 ? Wow. What about 95 and 85 and 75 and 65. You must be real old. This whole national ranking thing is a gimmick. Any given Sunday for example. Not that I'm questioning their lacrosse dominance and breeding they've been producing for decades. Theyre youth football teams stop in 6th grade and they play for the MS. By the way how's their football team ?
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Bypassing Middle School Lax for Club Team - 02/23/13 01:37 AM
Originally Posted by Anonymous
"The recent success of GC ? Where have you been or are you a Lax expert or critic because your kids play now."

I'm only referring to the last two years as "recent". GC is always good, but #1 national rankings are rare. And there's a reason the last two classes were so dominant.

And if I know what was happening in 2005, I've been around longer than most here, and likely much longer than you.

National rankings mean absolutely nothing when it comes to HS teams and very little when it comes to players. How much time, effort and resources do you think goes into something like ranking HS teams? The answer is very, very little
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Bypassing Middle School Lax for Club Team - 02/23/13 02:41 AM
Originally Posted by LAXadaysickal
The Sharks actually had six All Americans at the same time:

Dwyer
Jahelka
Mahon
Fisher
Berkery
Marino


2 of the 6 just got kicked out of Harvard due to their involvement in the cheating scandal. The girls goalie from GC at Harvard also got kicked out too so maybe you should ease up on the GC lovefest.
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Bypassing Middle School Lax for Club Team - 02/23/13 02:46 AM
They all went on to play for fl$ - check it
The topic here is whether to bypass middle school for a club, and the point made was there's a recent example of success where the boys on a great high school team came from both.

What does football, 1972 and the time spent on ranking a team have to do with any of this?
fl$ = Jahelka

So if that's where they later went, not surprising.
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Bypassing Middle School Lax for Club Team - 02/23/13 03:37 AM
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by LAXadaysickal
The Sharks actually had six All Americans at the same time:

Dwyer
Jahelka
Mahon
Fisher
Berkery
Marino


2 of the 6 just got kicked out of Harvard due to their involvement in the cheating scandal. The girls goalie from GC at Harvard also got kicked out too so maybe you should ease up on the GC lovefest.


Please educate yourself before such making slanderous statements. You've fallen prey to mob media mentality
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by LAXadaysickal
The Sharks actually had six All Americans at the same time:

Dwyer
Jahelka
Mahon
Fisher
Berkery
Marino


2 of the 6 just got kicked out of Harvard due to their involvement in the cheating scandal. The girls goalie from GC at Harvard also got kicked out too so maybe you should ease up on the GC lovefest.


Please educate yourself before such making slanderous statements. You've fallen prey to mob media mentality
Questions follow.

[1] Are they attending Harvard right now or not? If they are, the statement is in error. If they are not, the statement is accurate. In neither case would that be slander. This story has been reported in a very factual format from both the Boston Globe and local news reports.

[2] Is your expectation that they will rejoin Harvard at some time in the future? This is a personal choice of each student-athlete to reapply in the normal judicial process.

[3] Do you think that Harvard is expecting them to rejoin? You see, this is the most important question. Would you suspect that Harvard is looking to continue this story or bring it to closure?
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Bypassing Middle School Lax for Club Team - 02/23/13 01:12 PM
I am always amazed by how hatful, resentful and jealous some of the posters are on this site.

I had a simple question.

Did the boys listed choose to play and train 'only" with a “Club” team during their JHS years?
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Bypassing Middle School Lax for Club Team - 02/23/13 01:46 PM
Maligning young people in a bad (and suspect) situation publicly may not be slander, just pathetic.

My first reaction was "good" throw the cheaters out. But on closer review this "cheating scandal" is pretty weak. But that topic is addresses elsewhere on this board.
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Bypassing Middle School Lax for Club Team - 02/23/13 02:58 PM
From my understanding the cheating scandal at Harvard involved many athletes, not just lacrosse players. From what it looks like what the kids did was no different than other kids have been doing for years and the Professor involved all of a sudden took exception and made a complaint. Its not suprising given a good portion of academia's attitude towards athletics that athletes were singled out and punished in this case. At the very least the details of this case seem sketchy. Im going to give the kids the benefit of the doubt on this one.
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Bypassing Middle School Lax for Club Team - 02/23/13 06:54 PM
These kids are exceptional scholar-athletes. Please do not discredit their accomplishments based on an open book, no-show 'gut' course. Harvard administration was out to get the professor who they felt was a bit too relaxed in his teaching standards. Unfortunately 125 students got caught in the middle. You should only hope your own childern have some of their success.
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Bypassing Middle School Lax for Club Team - 02/23/13 09:15 PM
Originally Posted by Anonymous
These kids are exceptional scholar-athletes. Please do not discredit their accomplishments based on an open book, no-show 'gut' course. Harvard administration was out to get the professor who they felt was a bit too relaxed in his teaching standards. Unfortunately 125 students got caught in the middle. You should only hope your own childern have some of their success.


They may be exceptional scholar-athletes but, they also cheated & got caught. Do not make excuses for these ADULTS. It was a take home, open book test. How much easier could it have been? It specifically stated to do the work individually & unfortunately they chose to share their answers. I am sure they were & still will be successful but, they need to take responsibility for their actions!

It is disgraceful that some ppl actually take joy in their misfortune....hopefully these talented scholar-athletes can learn from their mistakes and move forward.
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Bypassing Middle School Lax for Club Team - 02/24/13 04:23 AM
Seems weird to me that 100+ Harvard students (30% or more of the students enrolled in this class) would choose this take home, open book, gut course exam as the time to "cheat". These students don't have to cheat to succeed (even the athletes who might not otherwise have been admitted), and the sheer numbers involved points to a mistake or misunderstanding, especially in an academic environment that has been encouraging "collaboration" for the last 30 years.

I'm sure the faction in the administration that believes there should be no admissions exceptions for athletes, ground their axes when they realized a number of athletes were involved.

It appears all these students can apply for readmission, and perhaps many will be back at Harvard in the future. However, I doubt those who were admitted based in part on their athletic prowess will get the same consideration the next time around.

People need to take responsibility for their actions, but there may be more going on here. I'm sure far worse has gone unpunished at Harvard.
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Bypassing Middle School Lax for Club Team - 02/24/13 03:26 PM
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Seems weird to me that 100+ Harvard students (30% or more of the students enrolled in this class) would choose this take home, open book, gut course exam as the time to "cheat". These students don't have to cheat to succeed (even the athletes who might not otherwise have been admitted), and the sheer numbers involved points to a mistake or misunderstanding, especially in an academic environment that has been encouraging "collaboration" for the last 30 years.



I'm sure the faction in the administration that believes there should be no admissions exceptions for athletes, ground their axes when they realized a number of athletes were involved.

It appears all these students can apply for readmission, and perhaps many will be back at Harvard in the future. However, I doubt those who were admitted based in part on their athletic prowess will get the same consideration the next time around.

People need to take responsibility for their actions, but there may be more going on here. I'm sure far worse has gone unpunished at Harvard.


Why do find it weird that 30% cheated? You stated that you were sure that far worse has gone unpunished at Harvard. The easy way presented itself & these students chose to take it. 70% chose to follow the rules.

Im sure these are wonderful, talented young adults but, they made a choice. It's difficult to read some of these posts (& articles) pointing a finger @ the professor or the university. When do parents step back and say "my kid made a mistake & he/she has to live with that". Sure it is embarassing & it probably isnt in the student athletes nature but, first semester (or third) @ a high pressure university, on top of the rigour of full time sport is a tough place to be. That was an easy answer to one final. They made a poor choice and now have to live with that.
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Seems weird to me that 100+ Harvard students (30% or more of the students enrolled in this class) would choose this take home, open book, gut course exam as the time to "cheat".
According to the Harvard Admissions Web Site Statistics for the Class of 2016, 1665 students enrolled for classes in September. Figuring that is the size of the average year at the institution, 100 students is a very small population from the entire undergraduate base of some 6400 students. Still, we are talking about 1.5% of the enrolled total student body.

Originally Posted by Anonymous
These students don't have to cheat to succeed (even the athletes who might not otherwise have been admitted), and the sheer numbers involved points to a mistake or misunderstanding, especially in an academic environment that has been encouraging "collaboration" for the last 30 years.
There are two strongly warring factions involved here : a University "Honor Code" for exams and the idea of collaboration, particularly on a take-home final examination. Based on various academics with whom BOTC has discussed this subject, whether you more strongly support an "Honor Code" or the take-home final concept dictates how you see this issue.

Originally Posted by Anonymous
I'm sure the faction in the administration that believes there should be no admissions exceptions for athletes, ground their axes when they realized a number of athletes were involved.
Actually, the investigation took placed based on an audit of consistently worded answers across exam booklets, not due to athletics.

Originally Posted by Anonymous
It appears all these students can apply for readmission, and perhaps many will be back at Harvard in the future. However, I doubt those who were admitted based in part on their athletic prowess will get the same consideration the next time around.
Will the institution open this debate for a second time? Will these students (not just student-athletes) now need to compete with the entire transfer pool for admission? Unless agreements which are not public were agreed prior to the expulsions, BOTC doubts that any more than 25% of these students will be re-accepted.

Originally Posted by Anonymous
People need to take responsibility for their actions, but there may be more going on here. I'm sure far worse has gone unpunished at Harvard.
Comparing this situation against other "unpunished" or "unidentified" rules infractions shows a lack of rigor. If such were the baseline for a society of laws, no one would ever be convicted in the court system as there will always be some one "who got away with it".

Whether or not cheating actually took place in this course, the ultimate question at stake here is one of ETHICS. The school feels that there was a breach of ETHICAL behavior by the students involved for either excessive collaboration or outright cheating. The students felt that such collaboration on a final exam was considered ETHICAL (or so goes the argument) and therefore went without question.

So, a question for our readers : when the students were asked for the names of individuals with whom they worked on the exam, were the names provided? Based on what we have read in the media, not very many students were forthcoming with this information. Limited reporting? Perhaps.

In closing, if the students truly believed that their behavior and actions were ETHICAL, would there have been any hesitancy in identifying the study-group members?

Now, can we prove either side of this debate? Absolutely not based on the publicly disclosed information. However it is fairly clear that that University's inquisition did not provide adequate answers from the students to explain the ETHICAL nature of the results.
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Bypassing Middle School Lax for Club Team - 02/24/13 06:06 PM
I'll stand by my view ... I don't think it likely that 100 Harvard students (or Yale students, or Rutgers students) out of a sample of 280 would all cheat at the same time, on an open book take home exam, in a gut course, when there was absolutely no need to cheat. Not looking to excuse bad behavior, but under these facts those numbers point more to a misunderstanding or mistake (more so than the assumption that all 100 "took the easy way out" on what was already an easy exam).
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Bypassing Middle School Lax for Club Team - 03/04/13 08:44 PM
Originally Posted by Anonymous
These kids are exceptional scholar-athletes. Please do not discredit their accomplishments based on an open book, no-show 'gut' course. Harvard administration was out to get the professor who they felt was a bit too relaxed in his teaching standards. Unfortunately 125 students got caught in the middle. You should only hope your own childern have some of their success.


Maybe they were cheating all through High School and were not caught until now.
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Bypassing Middle School Lax for Club Team - 03/04/13 08:55 PM
National rankings mean absolutely nothing when it comes to HS teams and very little when it comes to players. How much time, effort and resources do you think goes into something like ranking HS teams? The answer is very, very little [/quote]

I was wondering when someone would come on here and throw this GC # 1 thing around. It's too bad this win-at-all-costs philosphy is now infecting school sports.
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Bypassing Middle School Lax for Club Team - 03/04/13 11:56 PM
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
National rankings mean absolutely nothing when it comes to HS teams and very little when it comes to players. How much time, effort and resources do you think goes into something like ranking HS teams? The answer is very, very little


I was wondering when someone would come on here and throw this GC # 1 thing around. It's too bad this win-at-all-costs philosphy is now infecting school sports.


Amen. They can't even get the colleges right, why should anybody take any stock in a high school "ranking" unless there's an actual playoff system like the NCAAs. This is a phenomenon thats developed only in the past 10 years and its an absolute joke - on all of us. And, its bad for the kids too - they start believing it and either go into a game over confident or already mentally defeated because of this BS. Unfortunately the genie is out of the bottle on this one.
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Bypassing Middle School Lax for Club Team - 03/14/13 12:46 PM
what do you do when they start eliminating 7th/8th grade teams due to budget cuts. My school district had and A and B team. It looks like the B team is getting dropped. Just found out last week. Any ideas for supplement team play. His summer travel team does not offer spring league.
Originally Posted by Anonymous
what do you do when they start eliminating 7th/8th grade teams due to budget cuts. My school district had and A and B team. It looks like the B team is getting dropped. Just found out last week. Any ideas for supplement team play. His summer travel team does not offer spring league.
One of three options will be an outcome from the cutting of middle (modified) school sports.

The first is that the school district itself will form a pay-for-play structure similar to what district parents will form when an austerity budget is employed and a sports program requires saving. In this case, the funds for the entire team(s) must be raised to avoid just individual players paying.

The second option is that external programs involving middle school (sixth, seventh, eighth graders depending on the district) students will blossom during the Spring season. Here, you will have individual players in a pay-for-play situation.

The third outcome will be an earlier culling of marginal or lightly interested players from the sport resulting in a smaller field of players from which to choose at the High School age groups.

The most likely outcome will be the second of these three options.

In your case, your club team might not have a Spring program but there are many that do and there are training camps throughout the season advertised here on BOTC. Many of these options should prove suitable for your family and/or budget.

Not to sound silly, but there is also a thing called a "pick-up" game ... why not have the players pull together some school yard games themselves?
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Bypassing Middle School Lax for Club Team - 03/14/13 06:39 PM
Originally Posted by CageSage
Originally Posted by Anonymous
what do you do when they start eliminating 7th/8th grade teams due to budget cuts. My school district had and A and B team. It looks like the B team is getting dropped. Just found out last week. Any ideas for supplement team play. His summer travel team does not offer spring league.
One of three options will be an outcome from the cutting of middle (modified) school sports.

The first is that the school district itself will form a pay-for-play structure similar to what district parents will form when an austerity budget is employed and a sports program requires saving. In this case, the funds for the entire team(s) must be raised to avoid just individual players paying.

The second option is that external programs involving middle school (sixth, seventh, eighth graders depending on the district) students will blossom during the Spring season. Here, you will have individual players in a pay-for-play situation.

The third outcome will be an earlier culling of marginal or lightly interested players from the sport resulting in a smaller field of players from which to choose at the High School age groups.

The most likely outcome will be the second of these three options.

In your case, your club team might not have a Spring program but there are many that do and there are training camps throughout the season advertised here on BOTC. Many of these options should prove suitable for your family and/or budget.

Not to sound silly, but there is also a thing called a "pick-up" game ... why not have the players pull together some school yard games themselves?


In our District the two team program was eliminated 4 years ago. My son's grade was the first early culled group. As a result, he is one of only 9 field players and 2 goalies left playing. This is down from 43 kids and two PAL teams when they were in 6th grade. Very sad to see. Some of the kids grew late, and some didn't play travel. There are some of them that are now big strong kids. Others are now part of small group that hang out before school and have their smokes... Not sure if this is a by product of early cuts, but I'm sure it didn't help.
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Bypassing Middle School Lax for Club Team - 03/14/13 10:21 PM
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by CageSage
Originally Posted by Anonymous
what do you do when they start eliminating 7th/8th grade teams due to budget cuts. My school district had and A and B team. It looks like the B team is getting dropped. Just found out last week. Any ideas for supplement team play. His summer travel team does not offer spring league.
One of three options will be an outcome from the cutting of middle (modified) school sports.

The first is that the school district itself will form a pay-for-play structure similar to what district parents will form when an austerity budget is employed and a sports program requires saving. In this case, the funds for the entire team(s) must be raised to avoid just individual players paying.

The second option is that external programs involving middle school (sixth, seventh, eighth graders depending on the district) students will blossom during the Spring season. Here, you will have individual players in a pay-for-play situation.

The third outcome will be an earlier culling of marginal or lightly interested players from the sport resulting in a smaller field of players from which to choose at the High School age groups.

The most likely outcome will be the second of these three options.

In your case, your club team might not have a Spring program but there are many that do and there are training camps throughout the season advertised here on BOTC. Many of these options should prove suitable for your family and/or budget.

Not to sound silly, but there is also a thing called a "pick-up" game ... why not have the players pull together some school yard games themselves?


In our District the two team program was eliminated 4 years ago. My son's grade was the first early culled group. As a result, he is one of only 9 field players and 2 goalies left playing. This is down from 43 kids and two PAL teams when they were in 6th grade. Very sad to see. Some of the kids grew late, and some didn't play travel. There are some of them that are now big strong kids. Others are now part of small group that hang out before school and have their smokes... Not sure if this is a by product of early cuts, but I'm sure it didn't help.

most schools have a no cut policy for 7/8th grade teams and it is equally horrible to watch - 50 kids, five quarters of subbing the entire team out after each one, every kid gets 8-9 minutes - ridiculous. lets just face the fact that all middle school sports are pretty much a waste of time do to the whole PC thing that goes on regarding cuts, some schools even carry that policy on throught HS
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Bypassing Middle School Lax for Club Team - 05/09/13 05:23 PM
I was one of the pro-middle school parents posting here before ... and now that we're half way through, my opinion has totally changed. So far, almost a complete waste of time, and we're in one of the best lax towns.

The boys can all play. The issue is with the coaching ... my son's coach forgets who plays what positions, and has no idea how to manage the talent he has. Worse, he has what can only be described as a poor understanding of the game. For example, he criticizes the wrong players on mistakes -- yelling at a kid who makes a good pass that was missed, instead of the kid who took the pass off his facemask, etc. He's mad when kids take open shots, but calls for passes to kids who are clearly covered. Defense is a complete mystery to him -- no communication at all to that end of the field.

What little communication he has appears to be confusing the boys and sending the wrong message. It's not a total disaster (yet), but you can already see he is turning some of the boys away from the game.

Thankfully his travel team has a coach who understands the game and appears to care.
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Bypassing Middle School Lax for Club Team - 05/09/13 08:25 PM
Originally Posted by Anonymous
I was one of the pro-middle school parents posting here before ... and now that we're half way through, my opinion has totally changed. So far, almost a complete waste of time, and we're in one of the best lax towns.

The boys can all play. The issue is with the coaching ... my son's coach forgets who plays what positions, and has no idea how to manage the talent he has. Worse, he has what can only be described as a poor understanding of the game. For example, he criticizes the wrong players on mistakes -- yelling at a kid who makes a good pass that was missed, instead of the kid who took the pass off his facemask, etc. He's mad when kids take open shots, but calls for passes to kids who are clearly covered. Defense is a complete mystery to him -- no communication at all to that end of the field.

What little communication he has appears to be confusing the boys and sending the wrong message. It's not a total disaster (yet), but you can already see he is turning some of the boys away from the game.

Thankfully his travel team has a coach who understands the game and appears to care.


Most, if not all Middle School coaches have never picked up a lacrosse stick. They coach for the money. They don't care about wins or losses. Once they become a coach it is very hard to have them removed. But fear not, the future of Long Island Middle School Sports will disappear within the next 5 years. With school districts starting to be in major budget toubles, MS Sports will be the first thing to go. All sports club teams, not just LAX, will become very important.
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Bypassing Middle School Lax for Club Team - 05/10/13 12:14 PM
My son just got an invite for a new travel football team for13 and 14 year olds, that is based on the same business model as the club lax teams....somebody sees the wave of the future of middle school sports!!
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Bypassing Middle School Lax for Club Team - 05/22/13 05:41 PM
Well, with just a couple of games left, I can say middle school lax wasn't so great. My son played a lot, but coaching was no better than PAL. Coach gets mad at offensive players for dodging and going to the cage??? Even when "plays" are not working.
The only positive is the kids play together with their friends.
I hate to say it, but I can see this MS stuff going away. If the travel teams start offering an alternative, it will be hard to justify playing MS. I even believe it won't be too far off when kids start bagging HS for Club. It's already happening with soccer. If you're in a so-so lax district, it might be a better option?
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Bypassing Middle School Lax for Club Team - 05/22/13 07:18 PM
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Well, with just a couple of games left, I can say middle school lax wasn't so great. My son played a lot, but coaching was no better than PAL. Coach gets mad at offensive players for dodging and going to the cage??? Even when "plays" are not working.
The only positive is the kids play together with their friends.
I hate to say it, but I can see this MS stuff going away. If the travel teams start offering an alternative, it will be hard to justify playing MS. I even believe it won't be too far off when kids start bagging HS for Club. It's already happening with soccer. If you're in a so-so lax district, it might be a better option?


Middle School Sports is horrendous these days because it's not about the best players playing like it used to be for ALL school sports. Now everyone plays and most schools don't even cut.

My sons school team is mediocre at best yet they are 7-0. The teams they play can't even catch the ball. There have been entire games played where the other team hasn't gotten a shot on goal. Not because of how good the defense is but strictly due to how bad the players are. It's terrible for the strong players on our team because they rarely get to play more than a few minutes due to the scores being out of hand and the coach playing the weakest kids for 3 quarters.
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Bypassing Middle School Lax for Club Team - 05/22/13 07:46 PM
You will not see the GC's, Farmingdales, etc... giving up the MS or HS lax programs. Anyone who says that see that coming, isn't from a LAX town.
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Bypassing Middle School Lax for Club Team - 05/22/13 08:10 PM
I can only speak for my son. My son plays on a very competitive club team and got playing time on his school 1st quarter/3rd quarter squad. While the training wasn't great and the 5 Qs are a pain in the a$$, he spent every day playing with his friends from school and having fun!

You should all know there isn't much scholarship money in LAX,if a kid gets recruited in 10th grade and gets a $10k scholarship to a $50k school, he is doing very well. The sport is about fun and learning, not about scholarships. As far as I am concerned, it was a great experience for my kid because he enjoyed it, nothing else matters.
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Bypassing Middle School Lax for Club Team - 05/23/13 12:01 AM
Originally Posted by Anonymous
You will not see the GC's, Farmingdales, etc... giving up the MS or HS lax programs. Anyone who says that see that coming, isn't from a LAX town.


That's what the guy said. If your from a "so-so lax district". Sadly, there are many really good players that have to play in bad programs, MS and HS. Not only that, what about all those kids at GC and F'dale that are great players and don't really get much time? On many teams they would start. Quite frankly, they would be better served on a club team. Instead of going to practice everyday and not playing so much. I guess they're with their friends... Who knows.
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Bypassing Middle School Lax for Club Team - 05/23/13 12:07 AM
Originally Posted by Anonymous
I can only speak for my son. My son plays on a very competitive club team and got playing time on his school 1st quarter/3rd quarter squad. While the training wasn't great and the 5 Qs are a pain in the a$$, he spent every day playing with his friends from school and having fun!

You should all know there isn't much scholarship money in LAX,if a kid gets recruited in 10th grade and gets a $10k scholarship to a $50k school, he is doing very well. The sport is about fun and learning, not about scholarships. As far as I am concerned, it was a great experience for my kid because he enjoyed it, nothing else matters.


Everybody knows the scholarship deal. However, from the posts above it seems that there are some really bad situations out in lax land. Those kids might be happier with an alternative option in the spring. Just saying...
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Bypassing Middle School Lax for Club Team - 05/23/13 01:01 AM
I'm from Farmingdale and even though its a strong lax town I predict within 5 years there won't be any middle school sports. I remember when they got rid of 9th grade teams in the 90's and then 7th grade sports 2 yrs ago. The next step is all of middle school sports.
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Bypassing Middle School Lax for Club Team - 05/23/13 09:37 AM
What are you the Superintendent.
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Bypassing Middle School Lax for Club Team - 05/23/13 11:55 AM
Does anyone the exact middles school lax rules? I hear that most schools play 5 quarter games but my sons team only played 2 5 quarter games last year and 1 this year. The other games were normal 4 quarter games where the best players played most if not all of the game.
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Bypassing Middle School Lax for Club Team - 05/23/13 12:24 PM
Originally Posted by Anonymous
I'm from Farmingdale and even though its a strong lax town I predict within 5 years there won't be any middle school sports. I remember when they got rid of 9th grade teams in the 90's and then 7th grade sports 2 yrs ago. The next step is all of middle school sports.


Well that is where East Islip is at now, no middle school sports. Then again their high school program is horrible so I guess it is no big loss. These kids will go play club lacrosse earlier and before you know it the high school program won't exist either.
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Does anyone the exact middles school lax rules? I hear that most schools play 5 quarter games but my sons team only played 2 5 quarter games last year and 1 this year. The other games were normal 4 quarter games where the best players played most if not all of the game.


What I heard when my kids played MS was that it depended on team size. If the teams were small enough (ha! a rare occurance) then you only played 4 quarters. It was all about making sure everyone had enough playing time and if they felt that had been accomplished in 4 quarters then the game ended.
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Bypassing Middle School Lax for Club Team - 05/23/13 12:52 PM
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Does anyone the exact middles school lax rules? I hear that most schools play 5 quarter games but my sons team only played 2 5 quarter games last year and 1 this year. The other games were normal 4 quarter games where the best players played most if not all of the game.


I don't know the exact number for each sport, but it depends on how many players are on each team. From my experience on the girls side, it seems like schools that have two teams only play 4 Q's and the ones with only one team, and are therefore overloaded, play 5. Both teams have to have the minimum number to play the 5th quarter.
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Does anyone the exact middles school lax rules? I hear that most schools play 5 quarter games but my sons team only played 2 5 quarter games last year and 1 this year. The other games were normal 4 quarter games where the best players played most if not all of the game.
The responses regarding team size are largely on target. If you go to BOTC's Rules and Regulations Forum, you will find the NYSPHSAA Handbook for 2012-2014. Starting on Page 133 in the Handbook, you will find complete coverage of Modified Sports.

In part, you will find the following:

6. EXTENDED PLAYING TIME: Eligibility for play in an extended playing time should be determined on the basis of the following participation standards:
a) Players with no participation in the regular game/contest should be eligible for play in an extended playing time.
b) Players whose participation in the regular contest was limited, i.e., their total participation was no more than one-half of the regular playing periods/quarters shall also be eligible for play in an extended playing time.
c) Limited participation shall be further defined to mean that entry into a playing period rather than actual playing time shall constitute "participation" in the regulation contest.

Optional Plan for use at the league or Section level: If a team has fewer than the minimum number of players to play the 5 period concept the following game rules will apply.

A 4 quarter game will be played with the number of minutes being increased for each quarter (see chart); however no player may play more than 3 quarters (*see exception). This will apply provided the team has a sufficient numbers of players so as not to exceed the NYSPHSAA regulated playing time allocation for each sport (see following chart).


The table mentioned has the following information.

Boys Lacrosse
Time Limit - Regulation Game : 9 Minute Quarters
Time Limit - Five Period Play : 9 Minute Periods
Time Limit - Four Quarter, Extended Play : 11 Minute Quarters
Minimum Number Of Players Needed for Extended Four Quarter Play : 14

Girls Lacrosse
Time Limit - Regulation Game : 25 Minute Halves
Time Limit - Five Period Play : 12 Minute Periods
Time Limit - Four Quarter, Extended Play : 15 Minute Quarters
Minimum Number Of Players Needed for Extended Four Quarter Play : 16

In boys’ and girls’ lacrosse and in girls' field hockey, if a team has only one goal keeper that goal keeper may play in all periods of 4 Quarter Extended Play or in all periods of 5 Period Play. Except for the goal keeper, the "time" allocated for the game will not be extended. All players except for the goal keeper will follow the 4 quarter or 5 periods extended playing time format and are therefore only eligible to play 3 periods.
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Bypassing Middle School Lax for Club Team - 05/23/13 01:28 PM
Middle school lacrosse is atrocious and if your son is a good club lacrosse player it will only hurt his development. They let anyone play, the officiating is horrendous, if they sneeze on each other its a penalty. If it wasnt mandatory for my son to play in my town, he would skip it in a second.
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Bypassing Middle School Lax for Club Team - 05/23/13 01:29 PM
Thanks for all of the replies about the MS rules. My sons team has about 40 kids and most of the teams we have played have had similar amounts so I don't understand why the games are 4 quarters. I'm thinking that it's because the scores are usually out of hand by the end of the first but I really don't know.
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Bypassing Middle School Lax for Club Team - 05/23/13 01:50 PM
There is much more to Middle School sports then the sport itself. There is the simple fact that that the kids are participating in a physical activity every day of the week. Yes, club teams practice, but not every day. It also teaches them something about time management. Balancing homework and other commitments after practice forces them to take some responsibility for their time and how they spend it.

There is also the social aspect of participating on a school team. Middle School is often a big adjustment for young students. Here they have the chance to bond with their friends, take some pride in representing their school and socialize with other kids whom they would not normally have something in common with. This also helps to bolster confidence and helps them assimilate with others in the school. Other students and teachers often attend these games. Sometimes the “benefits” of being on a team are not realized on the field but rather in the hallways the next day. “Hey, I saw you out on the field yesterday...”

Perhaps the stronger players are not being challenged as much as they would like, but they do have the stick in their hands everyday, and that is always a good thing. The weaker or new players benefit from practicing against the better players everyday. They may not get as much playing time but they get the practice in everyday. It only helps to make them better.

If you look at each game as a stepping stone to D1 lacrosse in your sons career, then yes, it may seem like a waist of time. But, if you look at it as an opportunity for him have fun with his friends, continue to expand his love and knowledge of the game, and grow as a student athlete and member of the school community, then it is certainly worth it.

“Club lacrosse only” may give them a better lacrosse experience but they would missing out on a lot more.
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Bypassing Middle School Lax for Club Team - 05/23/13 02:36 PM
That could be the dumbest statement yet
On this topic! MS kids get to play with their
Neighborhood friends, which doesn't happen
In club lax. They are developing for their
School program, not for the selfish reasons
You are thinking about. Let me guess: you
Could care less how your your sons team does
As long as he plays good. Great lesson!
Your thinking about scholarships for your son
Instead of him playing with friends. Any lax
Played is good lax played.
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Bypassing Middle School Lax for Club Team - 05/23/13 03:18 PM
Originally Posted by Anonymous
There is much more to Middle School sports then the sport itself. There is the simple fact that that the kids are participating in a physical activity every day of the week. Yes, club teams practice, but not every day. It also teaches them something about time management. Balancing homework and other commitments after practice forces them to take some responsibility for their time and how they spend it.

There is also the social aspect of participating on a school team. Middle School is often a big adjustment for young students. Here they have the chance to bond with their friends, take some pride in representing their school and socialize with other kids whom they would not normally have something in common with. This also helps to bolster confidence and helps them assimilate with others in the school. Other students and teachers often attend these games. Sometimes the “benefits” of being on a team are not realized on the field but rather in the hallways the next day. “Hey, I saw you out on the field yesterday...”

Perhaps the stronger players are not being challenged as much as they would like, but they do have the stick in their hands everyday, and that is always a good thing. The weaker or new players benefit from practicing against the better players everyday. They may not get as much playing time but they get the practice in everyday. It only helps to make them better.

If you look at each game as a stepping stone to D1 lacrosse in your sons career, then yes, it may seem like a waist of time. But, if you look at it as an opportunity for him have fun with his friends, continue to expand his love and knowledge of the game, and grow as a student athlete and member of the school community, then it is certainly worth it.

“Club lacrosse only” may give them a better lacrosse experience but they would missing out on a lot more.


very well said
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Bypassing Middle School Lax for Club Team - 05/23/13 06:16 PM
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
There is much more to Middle School sports then the sport itself. There is the simple fact that that the kids are participating in a physical activity every day of the week. Yes, club teams practice, but not every day. It also teaches them something about time management. Balancing homework and other commitments after practice forces them to take some responsibility for their time and how they spend it.

There is also the social aspect of participating on a school team. Middle School is often a big adjustment for young students. Here they have the chance to bond with their friends, take some pride in representing their school and socialize with other kids whom they would not normally have something in common with. This also helps to bolster confidence and helps them assimilate with others in the school. Other students and teachers often attend these games. Sometimes the “benefits” of being on a team are not realized on the field but rather in the hallways the next day. “Hey, I saw you out on the field yesterday...”

Perhaps the stronger players are not being challenged as much as they would like, but they do have the stick in their hands everyday, and that is always a good thing. The weaker or new players benefit from practicing against the better players everyday. They may not get as much playing time but they get the practice in everyday. It only helps to make them better.

If you look at each game as a stepping stone to D1 lacrosse in your sons career, then yes, it may seem like a waist of time. But, if you look at it as an opportunity for him have fun with his friends, continue to expand his love and knowledge of the game, and grow as a student athlete and member of the school community, then it is certainly worth it.

“Club lacrosse only” may give them a better lacrosse experience but they would missing out on a lot more.


very well said



Oh golly gee pee wilikers, that's just so sweet. I'm going to barf on my key board. Maybe the boys can have a tea social after the next game. WOW. The movies are for social time.
Believe it or not,some of these kids are very into this sport. Stop treating it like a play date. Why is it that when athletes want to play at a high level its a bad thing??? When academically gifted or musically gifted children want to express themselves at the highest levels, we give them Honors and AP classes. (rightfully so) We don't make them go to math with the kids that can't add. Do we? Not the athletes, they need to play with the kids who just started the sport three days ago... Hey Johnny, you can play 400 songs on the piano, go play with the kid who just started today. Practice with him everyday, even though he can't hit a note. You're with your friends, its all good. Is that not insane??
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Bypassing Middle School Lax for Club Team - 05/23/13 07:11 PM
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
There is much more to Middle School sports then the sport itself. There is the simple fact that that the kids are participating in a physical activity every day of the week. Yes, club teams practice, but not every day. It also teaches them something about time management. Balancing homework and other commitments after practice forces them to take some responsibility for their time and how they spend it.

There is also the social aspect of participating on a school team. Middle School is often a big adjustment for young students. Here they have the chance to bond with their friends, take some pride in representing their school and socialize with other kids whom they would not normally have something in common with. This also helps to bolster confidence and helps them assimilate with others in the school. Other students and teachers often attend these games. Sometimes the “benefits” of being on a team are not realized on the field but rather in the hallways the next day. “Hey, I saw you out on the field yesterday...”

Perhaps the stronger players are not being challenged as much as they would like, but they do have the stick in their hands everyday, and that is always a good thing. The weaker or new players benefit from practicing against the better players everyday. They may not get as much playing time but they get the practice in everyday. It only helps to make them better.

If you look at each game as a stepping stone to D1 lacrosse in your sons career, then yes, it may seem like a waist of time. But, if you look at it as an opportunity for him have fun with his friends, continue to expand his love and knowledge of the game, and grow as a student athlete and member of the school community, then it is certainly worth it.

“Club lacrosse only” may give them a better lacrosse experience but they would missing out on a lot more.


very well said



Oh golly gee pee wilikers, that's just so sweet. I'm going to barf on my key board. Maybe the boys can have a tea social after the next game. WOW. The movies are for social time.
Believe it or not,some of these kids are very into this sport. Stop treating it like a play date. Why is it that when athletes want to play at a high level its a bad thing??? When academically gifted or musically gifted children want to express themselves at the highest levels, we give them Honors and AP classes. (rightfully so) We don't make them go to math with the kids that can't add. Do we? Not the athletes, they need to play with the kids who just started the sport three days ago... Hey Johnny, you can play 400 songs on the piano, go play with the kid who just started today. Practice with him everyday, even though he can't hit a note. You're with your friends, its all good. Is that not insane??


I agree. When I was in middle school we had a combined 7,8,and 9th grade team with cuts. At some point as a feeder program to the high schools some of these kids may unfortunately be told that they aren't good enough to play. God forbid we hurt someones feelings. PAL is good for kumbaya and goes up until 8th grade . School sports are not glorified playdates nor should they ever be.
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Bypassing Middle School Lax for Club Team - 05/23/13 08:01 PM
No one said that playing at a high level is a bad thing. I was addressing the question of “Bypassing Middle School Lax for Club Team”. Yes some of these kids are “very into this sport”. And I know that this summer, or next, many will be trying to catch the eye of a college recruiter at some tournament with their club team. They’re not going to get that from the Mid School team. I know that. If they can play at that level then of coarse they should. No one ever said not to play club.

The point I was trying to make was that if you look at Mid School sports as solely a place to excel in the sport then you will be disappointed. Very few schools have a large enough talent pool where they can cut all the new or weaker players. They need to keep some of them on the team.

However there is a lot to take away from the experience besides lacrosse and I don’t think you should bypass it just because you will have to play with some kids who just picked up a stick. (BTW, don’t be surprised when some of those same kids are competing with the better players for a position on the HS team. Some very good lax players didn’t start playing until middle school).

The same could be said of a gifted piano player. They can still choose to participate in the school band and enjoy it while taking private lessons. I don’t think they would depend on the school band teacher to help them learn those 400 songs.

Bottom line is they are 13 and 14 year olds. They should be enjoying themselves. Hopefully they are able to do it on the lacrosse field with their friends and not just at the movies. They can be as serious as they want on the club teams and that doesn’t mean they can’t also enjoy the school team.
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Bypassing Middle School Lax for Club Team - 05/23/13 08:23 PM
Who said anything about no cuts? What I said was no matter the skill level of the player they can still get a lot out of Mid School sports and I don’t think you should by pass it and ONLY play club.

Glorified play-dates?! Just because I mention the personal and social development of the kids doesn’t mean I’m treating the sports as a play-date. As parents shouldn’t we be concerned with these things
Originally Posted by Anonymous
No one said that playing at a high level is a bad thing. I was addressing the question of “Bypassing Middle School Lax for Club Team”. Yes some of these kids are “very into this sport”. And I know that this summer, or next, many will be trying to catch the eye of a college recruiter at some tournament with their club team. They’re not going to get that from the Mid School team. I know that. If they can play at that level then of coarse they should. No one ever said not to play club.

The point I was trying to make was that if you look at Mid School sports as solely a place to excel in the sport then you will be disappointed. Very few schools have a large enough talent pool where they can cut all the new or weaker players. They need to keep some of them on the team.

However there is a lot to take away from the experience besides lacrosse and I don’t think you should bypass it just because you will have to play with some kids who just picked up a stick. (BTW, don’t be surprised when some of those same kids are competing with the better players for a position on the HS team. Some very good lax players didn’t start playing until middle school).

The same could be said of a gifted piano player. They can still choose to participate in the school band and enjoy it while taking private lessons. I don’t think they would depend on the school band teacher to help them learn those 400 songs.

Bottom line is they are 13 and 14 year olds. They should be enjoying themselves. Hopefully they are able to do it on the lacrosse field with their friends and not just at the movies. They can be as serious as they want on the club teams and that doesn’t mean they can’t also enjoy the school team.


Agreeing with you.
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Bypassing Middle School Lax for Club Team - 05/23/13 11:21 PM
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
There is much more to Middle School sports then the sport itself. There is the simple fact that that the kids are participating in a physical activity every day of the week. Yes, club teams practice, but not every day. It also teaches them something about time management. Balancing homework and other commitments after practice forces them to take some responsibility for their time and how they spend it.

There is also the social aspect of participating on a school team. Middle School is often a big adjustment for young students. Here they have the chance to bond with their friends, take some pride in representing their school and socialize with other kids whom they would not normally have something in common with. This also helps to bolster confidence and helps them assimilate with others in the school. Other students and teachers often attend these games. Sometimes the “benefits” of being on a team are not realized on the field but rather in the hallways the next day. “Hey, I saw you out on the field yesterday...”

Perhaps the stronger players are not being challenged as much as they would like, but they do have the stick in their hands everyday, and that is always a good thing. The weaker or new players benefit from practicing against the better players everyday. They may not get as much playing time but they get the practice in everyday. It only helps to make them better.

If you look at each game as a stepping stone to D1 lacrosse in your sons career, then yes, it may seem like a waist of time. But, if you look at it as an opportunity for him have fun with his friends, continue to expand his love and knowledge of the game, and grow as a student athlete and member of the school community, then it is certainly worth it.

“Club lacrosse only” may give them a better lacrosse experience but they would missing out on a lot more.


very well said



Oh golly gee pee wilikers, that's just so sweet. I'm going to barf on my key board. Maybe the boys can have a tea social after the next game. WOW. The movies are for social time.
Believe it or not,some of these kids are very into this sport. Stop treating it like a play date. Why is it that when athletes want to play at a high level its a bad thing??? When academically gifted or musically gifted children want to express themselves at the highest levels, we give them Honors and AP classes. (rightfully so) We don't make them go to math with the kids that can't add. Do we? Not the athletes, they need to play with the kids who just started the sport three days ago... Hey Johnny, you can play 400 songs on the piano, go play with the kid who just started today. Practice with him everyday, even though he can't hit a note. You're with your friends, its all good. Is that not insane??


Every thread has a resident psycho. Lighten up Francis!
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Bypassing Middle School Lax for Club Team - 05/24/13 12:18 AM
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
There is much more to Middle School sports then the sport itself. There is the simple fact that that the kids are participating in a physical activity every day of the week. Yes, club teams practice, but not every day. It also teaches them something about time management. Balancing homework and other commitments after practice forces them to take some responsibility for their time and how they spend it.

There is also the social aspect of participating on a school team. Middle School is often a big adjustment for young students. Here they have the chance to bond with their friends, take some pride in representing their school and socialize with other kids whom they would not normally have something in common with. This also helps to bolster confidence and helps them assimilate with others in the school. Other students and teachers often attend these games. Sometimes the “benefits” of being on a team are not realized on the field but rather in the hallways the next day. “Hey, I saw you out on the field yesterday...”

Perhaps the stronger players are not being challenged as much as they would like, but they do have the stick in their hands everyday, and that is always a good thing. The weaker or new players benefit from practicing against the better players everyday. They may not get as much playing time but they get the practice in everyday. It only helps to make them better.

If you look at each game as a stepping stone to D1 lacrosse in your sons career, then yes, it may seem like a waist of time. But, if you look at it as an opportunity for him have fun with his friends, continue to expand his love and knowledge of the game, and grow as a student athlete and member of the school community, then it is certainly worth it.

“Club lacrosse only” may give them a better lacrosse experience but they would missing out on a lot more.


very well said



Oh golly gee pee wilikers, that's just so sweet. I'm going to barf on my key board. Maybe the boys can have a tea social after the next game. WOW. The movies are for social time.
Believe it or not,some of these kids are very into this sport. Stop treating it like a play date. Why is it that when athletes want to play at a high level its a bad thing??? When academically gifted or musically gifted children want to express themselves at the highest levels, we give them Honors and AP classes. (rightfully so) We don't make them go to math with the kids that can't add. Do we? Not the athletes, they need to play with the kids who just started the sport three days ago... Hey Johnny, you can play 400 songs on the piano, go play with the kid who just started today. Practice with him everyday, even though he can't hit a note. You're with your friends, its all good. Is that not insane??


Every thread has a resident psycho. Lighten up Francis!


Ok fairy godmother.... I will.
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Bypassing Middle School Lax for Club Team - 05/24/13 01:22 PM
Ward Melville middle schools Gelinas and Murphy played last night. Best game of the year for both teams always.

Murphy won 7-6 with a goal with less than one minute left...

Say what you want about middle school lax, when the tough lax programs play eachother, the lax is as good as any club team.
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Bypassing Middle School Lax for Club Team - 05/24/13 01:43 PM
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Ward Melville middle schools Gelinas and Murphy played last night. Best game of the year for both teams always.

Murphy won 7-6 with a goal with less than one minute left...

Say what you want about middle school lax, when the tough lax programs play eachother, the lax is as good as any club team.


Thats good to hear, however I think this is the exception rather than the rule. My son plays for a middle school in a strong lax town and the middle school lacrosse is still atrocious. I cant decide whats worse, the coaching, the officiating, or the playing.
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Bypassing Middle School Lax for Club Team - 05/24/13 01:56 PM
Originally Posted by Anonymous


Thats good to hear, however I think this is the exception rather than the rule. My son plays for a middle school in a strong lax town and the middle school lacrosse is still atrocious. I cant decide whats worse, the coaching, the officiating, or the playing.


I agree! My son also plays in a strong lax town yet the schedule is against all horrendous teams that can't catch. The games are pretty much unwatchable.

If a player falls down for any reason a flag is thrown. It's so obvious that it must be a mandate. Perfect checks are flagged leaving players confused about how they are supposed to properly play. I've seen kids lose there balance and fall down and get a flag thrown every time.
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Bypassing Middle School Lax for Club Team - 05/24/13 02:08 PM
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Ward Melville middle schools Gelinas and Murphy played last night. Best game of the year for both teams always.

Murphy won 7-6 with a goal with less than one minute left...

Say what you want about middle school lax, when the tough lax programs play eachother, the lax is as good as any club team.


Thats good to hear, however I think this is the exception rather than the rule. My son plays for a middle school in a strong lax town and the middle school lacrosse is still atrocious. I cant decide whats worse, the coaching, the officiating, or the playing.


It may be good to hear but it is far from accurate. It was a competitive game but the talent does not run so deep. Five or Six boys from each grade are very strong "A" players and could play on one of the top "A" club teams (some do) and there are some who play only for the Three Village town team (who could play for an A club team) but they choose not to. There are other good players but they are not as good as the top kids.

Also, not sure if it was such a good game for the boys who did not get in the game or for the ones who saw very little time. I thought the 5th Q was so that coaches could get all the kids in the game. Didn't see that happen yesterday.

Good Competition, good lacrosse but do not get carried away.
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Bypassing Middle School Lax for Club Team - 05/24/13 02:31 PM
I think the intention of the 5th quarter is to give the coaches discretion to play whoever he likes. Thats why they do the alternating quarters with the 8th graders playing the 1st and the 3rd and the 7th graders playing the 2nd and the 4th. I know my coaches only put their best players on the field in the 5th quarter. Its bad enough he has to play the kids that cant throw and catch the rest of the game. Although we are a strong lax town, my sons middle school team is just about as unwatchable as lacrosse gets. We have about 5-7 players that could play for anyone including the top clubs, but after that there is a huge drop off......
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Bypassing Middle School Lax for Club Team - 05/24/13 02:55 PM
Please, it was a great game to watch. Have you seen a high school game lately? Starters very rarely come out at all except for a brief blow, no team is running more that two middie lines with one sub on attack and D.

The kids on the side line do not get to play very often at all...

Also, if you were watching last night you say both sideline having a great time rooting for their teams whether they got in the game or not...
WM will have a very strong team when those kids are in 11th and 12th grades...
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Bypassing Middle School Lax for Club Team - 05/24/13 02:59 PM
our middle school does not rotate quarters by grade. Rather, 1st q and 3rd q are the best players regardless of grade. 2nd and fourth arr the next best kids regardless of grade and 5th q is for others that did not play in the first 4 qs. In close games the strong kids come back out in the 5th...
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Bypassing Middle School Lax for Club Team - 05/24/13 03:39 PM
Originally Posted by Anonymous
our middle school does not rotate quarters by grade. Rather, 1st q and 3rd q are the best players regardless of grade. 2nd and fourth arr the next best kids regardless of grade and 5th q is for others that did not play in the first 4 qs. In close games the strong kids come back out in the 5th...


Does he play for a Smithtown Middle School? We played them and all 3 teams were very good. Scary to think what it would have looked like as one team for all 3 schools
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Bypassing Middle School Lax for Club Team - 05/24/13 03:40 PM
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Please, it was a great game to watch. Have you seen a high school game lately? Starters very rarely come out at all except for a brief blow, no team is running more that two middie lines with one sub on attack and D.

The kids on the side line do not get to play very often at all...

Also, if you were watching last night you say both sideline having a great time rooting for their teams whether they got in the game or not...
WM will have a very strong team when those kids are in 11th and 12th grades...


I don't recall anyone saying it was not a great game to watch.

Ward Melville always has a very strong team so to say they will be strong when this group gets there is a bit silly. (of course they will be good)

This is middle school ball, not high school.

The thread is titled "Bypassing Middle School Lax for Club Team".

The original post regarding "Ward Melville" was intended to imply that Middle School lax is as good as or better than "Club Lax".

At the Top Club "A" Teams it is not.

For a kid who does not get in the games or can't make the towns "A" tournament team maybe a club "B" team is not such a bad idea.

The town "A" teams can't compete with the Top Club "A" Teams.

My kid plays middle school lax so i do not think kids should not play for their school but the original post was foolish.

I think the poster has a problem with club teams.
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Bypassing Middle School Lax for Club Team - 05/24/13 04:24 PM
The poster--me--does not have a problem with club teams. My middle school son plays on one (A team) and therefore cannot play on the town team--3 village has a rule against playing on a club and also playing on the town...

I supposse that is why we enjoy middle school, my son gets to play with friends that either dont want the club experience or simply can't make an A squad.

You seem very defensive--or passive agressive. Sorry you are not having a good experience

Foolish, silly-really? Try seeing the bright side of things from time to time, you will feel better.
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Bypassing Middle School Lax for Club Team - 05/24/13 04:28 PM
no, we play for WM. But I agree, those three schools are all very strong-

We know a few boys on each team as the result of club teams...

If smithtown goes to one HS, they will be terrific...
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Bypassing Middle School Lax for Club Team - 05/24/13 06:12 PM
Originally Posted by Anonymous
The poster--me--does not have a problem with club teams. My middle school son plays on one (A team) and therefore cannot play on the town team--3 village has a rule against playing on a club and also playing on the town...

I supposse that is why we enjoy middle school, my son gets to play with friends that either dont want the club experience or simply can't make an A squad.

You seem very defensive--or passive agressive. Sorry you are not having a good experience

Foolish, silly-really? Try seeing the bright side of things from time to time, you will feel better.


You seem all full of vim and vigor. Clearly your son is one of the top players (for now). Try walking in someone elses shoes for just a minute. I would guess in a tight game like the one you're talking about, maybe 20 kids from each team, the kids that start on either of the two 1&3 or 2&4 lines, got any real play time. The rest of the kids and their parents probably 40 plus kids combined from both teams got to watch a great game. Until you know what that feels like, tone it down a bit. I'm sure a number of those kids who watched a lot, could play on many other MS teams. Surely many of them could make a travel team. Guess what? As you move into HS, play time is worse. D1 commits not playing at top HS programs as seniors, juniors also D1 commits, no play time. As well as top D3 commits and prospects. Be humble, and respectfull of all the players, hopefully your son will never find himself in this situation...
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Bypassing Middle School Lax for Club Team - 05/24/13 06:34 PM
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
The poster--me--does not have a problem with club teams. My middle school son plays on one (A team) and therefore cannot play on the town team--3 village has a rule against playing on a club and also playing on the town...

I supposse that is why we enjoy middle school, my son gets to play with friends that either dont want the club experience or simply can't make an A squad.

You seem very defensive--or passive agressive. Sorry you are not having a good experience

Foolish, silly-really? Try seeing the bright side of things from time to time, you will feel better.


You seem all full of vim and vigor. Clearly your son is one of the top players (for now). Try walking in someone elses shoes for just a minute. I would guess in a tight game like the one you're talking about, maybe 20 kids from each team, the kids that start on either of the two 1&3 or 2&4 lines, got any real play time. The rest of the kids and their parents probably 40 plus kids combined from both teams got to watch a great game. Until you know what that feels like, tone it down a bit. I'm sure a number of those kids who watched a lot, could play on many other MS teams. Surely many of them could make a travel team. Guess what? As you move into HS, play time is worse. D1 commits not playing at top HS programs as seniors, juniors also D1 commits, no play time. As well as top D3 commits and prospects. Be humble, and respectfull of all the players, hopefully your son will never find himself in this situation...


Or your sons could be 7th graders playing on a MS combined 7/8th grade team, where the 8th graders get almost all the playing time. That sucks.
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Bypassing Middle School Lax for Club Team - 05/24/13 06:52 PM
Three Village doesn't give their players a choice as to whether they want to play for a club team......rumor has it that they must play for the school and they are not permitted to play with an outside team otherwise they risk not playing on the JV or Varsity team....if you have a strong program with depth and can compete at tournaments with A teams this is all good, but when a schools lacrosse program is not as strong, players shouldn't be looked down upon for playing on club teams to advance their game. I am not talking about not playing for the school, as the player should represent their school with pride good, bad or ugly, I am referring to playing with the school through middle school years and getting up to JV and Varsity and not getting the playing time because the player chooses to play with a club team as well as the school team. This kind of behavior from coaches has the same kind of affect on the player, the coach isn't directly telling you not to play on an outside team because you will suffer the consequences, but their actions speak just as loud.
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Bypassing Middle School Lax for Club Team - 05/24/13 06:56 PM
Originally Posted by Anonymous
no, we play for WM. But I agree, those three schools are all very strong-

We know a few boys on each team as the result of club teams...

If smithtown goes to one HS, they will be terrific...


those 2 WM middle school teams were really good too
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Bypassing Middle School Lax for Club Team - 05/24/13 07:40 PM
Lets see what happens at WM middle schools next year. There is a good crop of 7th grade "Better" players who play travel who will MS ball play out and how will their playing time is a/effected.


Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
no, we play for WM. But I agree, those three schools are all very strong-

We know a few boys on each team as the result of club teams...

If smithtown goes to one HS, they will be terrific...


those 2 WM middle school teams were really good too
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Bypassing Middle School Lax for Club Team - 05/24/13 08:33 PM
Rising 7th grade 2019 boys.

Originally Posted by Anonymous
Lets see what happens at WM middle schools next year. There is a good crop of 7th grade "Better" players who play travel who will MS ball play out and how will their playing time is a/effected.


Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
no, we play for WM. But I agree, those three schools are all very strong-

We know a few boys on each team as the result of club teams...

If smithtown goes to one HS, they will be terrific...


those 2 WM middle school teams were really good too
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Bypassing Middle School Lax for Club Team - 05/24/13 09:28 PM
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Rising 7th grade 2019 boys.

Originally Posted by Anonymous
Lets see what happens at WM middle schools next year. There is a good crop of 7th grade "Better" players who play travel who will MS ball play out and how will their playing time is a/effected.


Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
no, we play for WM. But I agree, those three schools are all very strong-

We know a few boys on each team as the result of club teams...

If smithtown goes to one HS, they will be terrific...


those 2 WM middle school teams were really good too


There are currently 20 + Ward Melville boys 2018 and 2017 (current 7th and 8th grade) that play for Club Teams. All of those boys play for their JHS team. The JHS coaches play who the think are the best players. There are current seniors in college from Ward Melville who played for Club teams, this is nothing new. Some of the best players to come out of Ward Melville in recent years have played for Club Teams and there are current players on their Varsity who either play now or have played for a club in the past. I think the coaches play who they think give their team the best chance of winning. The coaches are not always get it right but that happens everywhere at every level. Don't think next year will be any different.
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Bypassing Middle School Lax for Club Team - 05/24/13 10:10 PM
look, i feel badly for all the kids that didn't get to play this year, as someone said, it sucks. I have been in both positions several times. everyone wants to go and watch their kid play, have fun and compete. none of us make these decisions, the coaches do.

no vigor here, simply saying yesterday was a great game and lots of fun. unlike others our experience with ms lax has been positive, that is all plain and simple.

sorry your experience has not been positive. good luck to you and your son.
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Bypassing Middle School Lax for Club Team - 05/24/13 10:22 PM
(for now)--you are the kind of person hoping for someone that is good to fail? hoping you can point your finger years from now and say i told you so???

relax and enjoy your children. lax is a game and this site is about talking about the game. you have a chip on your shoulder and i feel bad for you.

there is no meaningful lax employment and no real scholarship $. let those of that have good players (for now) enjoy the time...
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Bypassing Middle School Lax for Club Team - 05/04/14 01:26 PM
Middle School Lacrosse is hard to watch.
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Bypassing Middle School Lax for Club Team - 05/04/14 02:39 PM
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Middle School Lacrosse is hard to watch.


So is SCGL.
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Bypassing Middle School Lax for Club Team - 05/04/14 03:25 PM
having been through it twice now i would encourage any group of parents that can pull it off to skip middle school lacrosse. School budgets have created a situation where there are too many kids per team and not enough coaches manage them properly. In 10 years it will be the norm just like soccer.
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Bypassing Middle School Lax for Club Team - 05/04/14 04:04 PM
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
The poster--me--does not have a problem with club teams. My middle school son plays on one (A team) and therefore cannot play on the town team--3 village has a rule against playing on a club and also playing on the town...

I supposse that is why we enjoy middle school, my son gets to play with friends that either dont want the club experience or simply can't make an A squad.

You seem very defensive--or passive agressive. Sorry you are not having a good experience

Foolish, silly-really? Try seeing the bright side of things from time to time, you will feel better.


You seem all full of vim and vigor. Clearly your son is one of the top players (for now). Try walking in someone elses shoes for just a minute. I would guess in a tight game like the one you're talking about, maybe 20 kids from each team, the kids that start on either of the two 1&3 or 2&4 lines, got any real play time. The rest of the kids and their parents probably 40 plus kids combined from both teams got to watch a great game. Until you know what that feels like, tone it down a bit. I'm sure a number of those kids who watched a lot, could play on many other MS teams. Surely many of them could make a travel team. Guess what? As you move into HS, play time is worse. D1 commits not playing at top HS programs as seniors, juniors also D1 commits, no play time. As well as top D3 commits and prospects. Be humble, and respectfull of all the players, hopefully your son will never find himself in this situation...


Cuts need to be made. They do it for academic classes. The same needs to be done for athletic teams. A Lacrosse team should have 22 max. Period!!
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Bypassing Middle School Lax for Club Team - 05/04/14 06:51 PM
Originally Posted by Anonymous
having been through it twice now i would encourage any group of parents that can pull it off to skip middle school lacrosse. School budgets have created a situation where there are too many kids per team and not enough coaches manage them properly. In 10 years it will be the norm just like soccer.


I get your point but who would they play? Need a bunch of teams to do it.
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Bypassing Middle School Lax for Club Team - 05/04/14 09:04 PM
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
having been through it twice now i would encourage any group of parents that can pull it off to skip middle school lacrosse. School budgets have created a situation where there are too many kids per team and not enough coaches manage them properly. In 10 years it will be the norm just like soccer.


I get your point but who would they play? Need a bunch of teams to do it.

Obviously you did not see 7th grade pro player town division. Some pretty hot town teams played Smithtown Islip Bayshore West Islip. PAL on steriods
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Bypassing Middle School Lax for Club Team - 05/04/14 09:34 PM
Originally Posted by Anonymous
[quote=Anonymous]I don't know that most school districts pull up from the middle school teams. I know it happens, but I think that it is more the exception than the rule. I have seen an exceptional 8th grader start, and do well, but it is rarely on a really competitive team (ie: Farmingdale or Garden City... just to name a few). I have also seen that same girl play age appropriate club and not score a goal. My daughters school dist does not allow 8th grader to play up in the High School unless that sport is not offered in the middle school. [/

I think 8th graders who get pulled up to varsity are truly few and far between, and having coached h.s. for quite a few years I can tell you in my experience they should be. They are the elite athletes, often in many sports.


This must be a joke!!!
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Bypassing Middle School Lax for Club Team - 05/04/14 09:50 PM
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
having been through it twice now i would encourage any group of parents that can pull it off to skip middle school lacrosse. School budgets have created a situation where there are too many kids per team and not enough coaches manage them properly. In 10 years it will be the norm just like soccer.


I get your point but who would they play? Need a bunch of teams to do it.

Obviously you did not see 7th grade pro player town division. Some pretty hot town teams played Smithtown Islip Bayshore West Islip. PAL on steriods

But that's not representative of middle school, where they have 35-40 kids and participation takes precedent over all else.
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Bypassing Middle School Lax for Club Team - 05/04/14 09:52 PM
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
having been through it twice now i would encourage any group of parents that can pull it off to skip middle school lacrosse. School budgets have created a situation where there are too many kids per team and not enough coaches manage them properly. In 10 years it will be the norm just like soccer.


I get your point but who would they play? Need a bunch of teams to do it.

practice during the week, play in weekend travel leagues and enter tournaments.
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Bypassing Middle School Lax for Club Team - 05/04/14 10:01 PM
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
having been through it twice now i would encourage any group of parents that can pull it off to skip middle school lacrosse. School budgets have created a situation where there are too many kids per team and not enough coaches manage them properly. In 10 years it will be the norm just like soccer.


I get your point but who would they play? Need a bunch of teams to do it.

Obviously you did not see 7th grade pro player town division. Some pretty hot town teams played Smithtown Islip Bayshore West Islip. PAL on steriods


The Smithtown Team comes from three different middle schools and will break up into two different high schools. Not a middle school team.
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Bypassing Middle School Lax for Club Team - 05/04/14 10:49 PM
I'm a believer. Let's say all the towns that are willing to do this, get their best kids together and do it next year. Even if it's something as crazy as the Oyster Bay league. Who has the b@#ls to do it?

Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
having been through it twice now i would encourage any group of parents that can pull it off to skip middle school lacrosse. School budgets have created a situation where there are too many kids per team and not enough coaches manage them properly. In 10 years it will be the norm just like soccer.


I get your point but who would they play? Need a bunch of teams to do it.

practice during the week, play in weekend travel leagues and enter tournaments.
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Bypassing Middle School Lax for Club Team - 05/05/14 02:58 AM
Teams don't really pull kids up? Guess Rocky Point is the exception.
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Bypassing Middle School Lax for Club Team - 05/05/14 04:05 AM
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
having been through it twice now i would encourage any group of parents that can pull it off to skip middle school lacrosse. School budgets have created a situation where there are too many kids per team and not enough coaches manage them properly. In 10 years it will be the norm just like soccer.


I get your point but who would they play? Need a bunch of teams to do it.

Obviously you did not see 7th grade pro player town division. Some pretty hot town teams played Smithtown Islip Bayshore West Islip. PAL on steriods

But that's not representative of middle school, where they have 35-40 kids and participation takes precedent over all else.


It was meant to say 7th and 8th grade.

But I believe the poster means that. Pro player type games is what they want not MS format. Have the best play and screw the all participating function of MS lax. Who does it help the developing player. It hampers and holds back up the elite player. If towns wanted their teams to be strong in HS they would support this.

35-40 player rosters helps who. How many teams really cut players.?
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Bypassing Middle School Lax for Club Team - 05/05/14 11:21 AM
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
having been through it twice now i would encourage any group of parents that can pull it off to skip middle school lacrosse. School budgets have created a situation where there are too many kids per team and not enough coaches manage them properly. In 10 years it will be the norm just like soccer.


I get your point but who would they play? Need a bunch of teams to do it.

Obviously you did not see 7th grade pro player town division. Some pretty hot town teams played Smithtown Islip Bayshore West Islip. PAL on steriods

But that's not representative of middle school, where they have 35-40 kids and participation takes precedent over all else.


It was meant to say 7th and 8th grade.

But I believe the poster means that. Pro player type games is what they want not MS format. Have the best play and screw the all participating function of MS lax. Who does it help the developing player. It hampers and holds back up the elite player. If towns wanted their teams to be strong in HS they would support this.

35-40 player rosters helps who. How many teams really cut players.?


You are all nuts!!! MS obviously is not for development but rather team building, friendship building, school spirit and pride. It is the only place my kids can play with friends who don't want to go to that next level or can't make it there. The only people unhappy with it are the crazy parents. Travel teams are for skill building, competitive play and getting looks. Coaches don't come watch school games anymore. Stop knocking the school districts for getting kids involved and giving them the opportunities they otherwise wouldn't get. That includes playing with their friend who is an elite player. We suffered through MS sports and still are but at the end of the day my kid is happy and then goes and plays with travel in addition to school ball. Give us a break already with this. If you don't like it for your kid don't play, it will leave a spot for someone else!!
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Bypassing Middle School Lax for Club Team - 05/05/14 12:12 PM
Completely agree that it is about fun and playing with their friends...WM does not move 7th and 8th graders up.

Also agree it can be tough to watch, but generally (in my experience) the first q is decent lax.

We already play ultra competitive club lax and have plenty of time for more competition over the summer, this is about having fun and representing their schools.

For those that want to walk away, that is great, make room for others that want to wear the uniform.
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Bypassing Middle School Lax for Club Team - 05/05/14 08:21 PM
it just seems like a lot of wasted time for your son's development. two years of "Five days a week for three weeks. Then the season goes for a little over a month. You have kids that can't catch or throw." I understand the whole playing with friends and such, but it doesn't help the better players at all. I guess maybe from a leadership point it helps, but not from a lacrosse standpoint.

Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
having been through it twice now i would encourage any group of parents that can pull it off to skip middle school lacrosse. School budgets have created a situation where there are too many kids per team and not enough coaches manage them properly. In 10 years it will be the norm just like soccer.


I get your point but who would they play? Need a bunch of teams to do it.

Obviously you did not see 7th grade pro player town division. Some pretty hot town teams played Smithtown Islip Bayshore West Islip. PAL on steriods

But that's not representative of middle school, where they have 35-40 kids and participation takes precedent over all else.


It was meant to say 7th and 8th grade.

But I believe the poster means that. Pro player type games is what they want not MS format. Have the best play and screw the all participating function of MS lax. Who does it help the developing player. It hampers and holds back up the elite player. If towns wanted their teams to be strong in HS they would support this.

35-40 player rosters helps who. How many teams really cut players.?


You are all nuts!!! MS obviously is not for development but rather team building, friendship building, school spirit and pride. It is the only place my kids can play with friends who don't want to go to that next level or can't make it there. The only people unhappy with it are the crazy parents. Travel teams are for skill building, competitive play and getting looks. Coaches don't come watch school games anymore. Stop knocking the school districts for getting kids involved and giving them the opportunities they otherwise wouldn't get. That includes playing with their friend who is an elite player. We suffered through MS sports and still are but at the end of the day my kid is happy and then goes and plays with travel in addition to school ball. Give us a break already with this. If you don't like it for your kid don't play, it will leave a spot for someone else!!
never bypass your school team, see this ? comes up way to much
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Bypassing Middle School Lax for Club Team - 05/07/14 01:12 PM
[quote=Anonymous]it just seems like a lot of wasted time for your son's development. two years of "Five days a week for three weeks. Then the season goes for a little over a month. You have kids that can't catch or throw." I understand the whole playing with friends and such, but it doesn't help the better players at all. I guess maybe from a leadership point it helps, but not from a lacrosse standpoint.

You are expecting more out of MS sports than what they are indented to to. They are designed to provide an after school activity that teaches team work, sportsmanship, helps build character, etc. They are not supposed to be a feeder program for the HS nor are they intended to help athletes develop for the showcase tournaments that they may participate in as a rising freshman.

Yes, you have athletes of all different skill levels but that is the nature of the programs for all sports. Not every child begins playing a particular sport in 3rd or 4th grade. MS teams may be their first exposure to the sport. Those that continue to develop will go on to play at a higher level.

My sons played MS lacrosse in a very competitive school district. They had teammates/friends who made verbal D1 commits the following summer/fall. They also had teammates/friends who had just picked up a stick in 8th grade. None of that mattered to the team. They cheered just as loudly when one of the D1 commits scored the winning goal against a crosstown rival as when one of the nubes scored his first goal in a blow out.

Not everything learned on a MS team has to do with the sport.

If all you are looking for is the continued lacrosse development for your son than you should bypass the MS team. You will be very disappointed.
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Bypassing Middle School Lax for Club Team - 05/07/14 01:38 PM
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Lets see what happens at WM middle schools next year. There is a good crop of 7th grade "Better" players who play travel who will MS ball play out and how will their playing time is a/effected.


Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
no, we play for WM. But I agree, those three schools are all very strong-

We know a few boys on each team as the result of club teams...

If smithtown goes to one HS, they will be terrific...


those 2 WM middle school teams were really good too


Where a boy plays outside of school has not affected anyone at the JHS. 7 of the 10 boys who start on the "A" line play for Private Club Teams and one of the other starters played for a private club last year. All of the Starters are 8th graders. The majority of the 7th graders who start on the B line play for Private Clubs.

Not sure of the exact numbers at the other JHS but at least a few of the starters on the A Line play for Private Clubs. The 7th graders who Start an the A line play for private clubs.

Ward Melville Varsity has at least 7 or 8 boys that have played for Private Clubs many of them start or see a lot of playing time.



Posted By: Anonymous Re: Bypassing Middle School Lax for Club Team - 05/07/14 01:48 PM
I agree never bypass MS sports, its more than sports at this age. Learning how to behave and represent your school, on the fields on the bus etc. is a major change for a lot of kids.
I have seen many kids (son and his friends) learn to balance and manage their time because they knew if their grades dropped they could not play.
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Bypassing Middle School Lax for Club Team - 05/07/14 02:19 PM
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Lets see what happens at WM middle schools next year. There is a good crop of 7th grade "Better" players who play travel who will MS ball play out and how will their playing time is a/effected.


Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
no, we play for WM. But I agree, those three schools are all very strong-

We know a few boys on each team as the result of club teams...

If smithtown goes to one HS, they will be terrific...


those 2 WM middle school teams were really good too


Where a boy plays outside of school has not affected anyone at the JHS. 7 of the 10 boys who start on the "A" line play for Private Club Teams and one of the other starters played for a private club last year. All of the Starters are 8th graders. The majority of the 7th graders who start on the B line play for Private Clubs.

Not sure of the exact numbers at the other JHS but at least a few of the starters on the A Line play for Private Clubs. The 7th graders who Start an the A line play for private clubs.

Ward Melville Varsity has at least 7 or 8 boys that have played for Private Clubs many of them start or see a lot of playing time.





Every 3V/Ward Melville player that I know of who plays for a private club does it for One Reason. They want to improve as a player in order to play at Ward Melville and help win a championship. They all want to improve and they all want to play for Ward Melville.
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Bypassing Middle School Lax for Club Team - 05/07/14 05:34 PM
There are a lot of very strong 8th graders in Smithtown and the majority of the strongest players also play for Club Teams. Some will go to East some will go to West some will go Private. They would be very good High School Team if they all went to the same school. Very dedicated group of young men who take advantage of Club Teams, Private Lessons, Outside Clinics, Outside Training and Smithton in order to become the best that they can be.
Best advice, do not limit or restrict your child’s lacrosse experience.
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