Use this thread to discuss the Boys 2023-8th Grade Fall 2018/Summer 2019 Season

Any information about the new 2023 Green Turtle team? Is it just Lax World rebranded with the same players? Who will be the coach?

I imagine it will just be the 2023 Lax World team rebranded. GT didn’t field a 2023 team last year and Towson is saturated with teams so I don’t see where they get new kids from.

Questions for this season with tryouts:

1. How many 2022's move down to play at 2023? Do they displace many to a new team?
2. How many teams play elite?
3. Which teams will be most/least improved?
4. Seems like many clubs are consolidating or changing uniforms (DCD) is this a limited supply demand issue?
5. Do any clubs have a second team (b) that is worth anything?

This is an important year to get to the right team before HS where tryouts do not change as much.

The team will practice as Loyola’a Ridley Field so not a Towson club, is it?

Looneys will be most improved. Crabs can only go up after this past year.. FCA will hold since it guarantees each returning player a spot. 91 Md should drop to AA or A but I guess there is a market for people to play on a team that calls itself elite even though it lost every game in that division.

It will be between DC Dogs and Hawks to win it all. Looneys, Crabs, FCA and 91 will have the same results as last year.

I guess they should change their entire website and tryout flyer since it says “Green Turtle Lacrosse Club Towson”. They have historically got kids from the Towson area, but you knew that. Way to add absolutely nothing to the conversation.

DC Dogs getting lefty attackman from NL? He played w them at NLF. Crabs will gain attackman and defender that played on their 22 team.

Still between DC Dogs and Hawks.

Both are trying out for Hawks too.

[

Looneys will be most improved. Crabs can only go up after this past year.. FCA will hold since it guarantees each returning player a spot. 91 Md

Still between DC Dogs and Hawks.
[/quote]

That is a good matchup and will be the finals repeat but I think NL is also in the elite division mix along with DCE, LOONEY, crabs, FCA all competing for 3rd and 4th place. Who will be the last team in or will they expand to 10 or retract to 6 or will 91 do another year? Tryout results and fall play day tournaments should help determine this. Sadly this is the last year for these kids where W and L's really matter much to the kids at the club level. Next year it is all about showcasing and how they play. HS team is where the wins and losses will matter.

Oh, well if it says “Towson” but practices in the City it is a Towson club. So only people that live in Towson will be interested. Makes sense. Maybe they can add elite to the team, then it will be an elite rather than A team.

Easy there girl. If you look at surrounding area, Towson is one of easiest drives to place.

Are the hawks coaches going to change this year or are they still going to have the daddy ball issues?

If that is what daddy ball these days, sign my kid up. Oh wait, you are right, let’s have the recent college X grade coach just to say the team has no dad coaches.

What daddy ball issues? The team blew through HOCO, Had a great summer. Why would they change coaches?

At the 2023 grade year, which clubs from last season extend automatic invites to returning players rather than having a true open tryout?

What’s the buzz on tryouts for Crabs? Any of the strong players that left in past years returning? Any stars leaving?

Just because they win doesn't mean there aren't several disgruntled parents/kids. Hawks have a problem with daddy ball across the entire organization.

If there weren't any dad coaches you most likely wouldn't have many teams to chose from. I don't know many young college D1 players who can put the time in that the dad coaches put in without pay and work a full time job . You are going to have unhappy parents and kids on every team. I am assuming if the Hawks team is beating the teams with High School coaches and D1 coaches then they must be doing something right!

Yep - they run a fantastic 3-3 zone.

From what I understand the bigger issue with the parents/kids is the zone defense. Either that or they are just tired of winning. However, for my final answer I will go with not enough playing time for everyone.

According to a previous poster, now that RM is taking over, 50% of the last year's team is cut and heads will roll with this year's team.

All teams will have that. Do you think those same parents will feel better if they are getting the same amount of minutes, same roles if next year it is other kids besides the coaches on the team? Answer is "No" I wouldn't be surprised if at least 1 coaches son doesn't make the team. It has happened before.

As Motley Crue said, "girl don't go away mad, girl just go away"

A Motley Crue quote from a hawks RN parent. Perfect!

It all starts with crabs tonight ... invites start going out after the tryout and players come off the board ... big crab hand picks the team to coach this year

How many of last season’s 22’s will be there?

Has to be the goalie dad.

Could be any one of the RN parents. They love motley crue, 33 zones, and moon shine.

I love daddy ball...paid coaches are OVER RATED...

Hawks 2023 getting a new goalie

That's surprising. He's pretty good (albeit a bit emotional).

Where is the 'old' one going? He was a stud!

we will see, isn't that what tryouts are for

So, you’re telling me that Hawks already had their tryouts and you saw who was there?

Is the 2023 goalie that played on Hawks 2022 dropping down to play with Hawks or going elsewhere?

Stop trying to create drama... Win or lose, Hawks 2023 are relatively drama-free. Sorry the rest of you can't enjoy the same.

This is very sad both goalie dad's posting to try to get the other goalie not to attend a tryout or something. You both must know each other but posting about rising 8th graders? I hope future college coaches know that they are getting crazy parents which only hurts the recruiting chances with some coaches.

If that NL attack permanently joins Madlax DC Dogs, everyone else is playing for 2nd from here on out.

That's laughable. Minimal impact.

Yes, scored hat trick in NLF Finals against True. No impact at all.

He's slow and not that good just need to be prepared and he's easily guardable. He also doesn't pass and gets frustrated quick.

Thanks, Dad.

Maybe that was a Hawks parent saying that? It was 10-0 in the 1st period when Hawks and NL played.....minimal impact.

The only thing making DCDogs legit is they have a couple double holdbacks. If your kid can drive the summer going into HS you as a parent are a DB...

Just curious why DC Dogs? Now that it is a new season why did this team not just become MADLAX Capital?

Surprised no chatter on 2023 tryouts. Heard Crabs has a bunch of talent coming from DC area and they are finalizing team after yesterday's tryouts

Your heard? Who did you hear it from? What else did you here? Probably no chatter because the loud mouth dads don’t know which team junior will play for. Once that is settled, the trash talk will resume. Stay tuned...

What does one consider the DC area these days. Is Howard Co the DC area? Montgomery? I would not think many N.VA kids would drive 2 hours each way to Crabs practice. Some play NL and DC Dogs. There is a lot of movement in NOVA teams this year.

Clubs should post the birthdates of rostered players. Each club requires that info to register. Families should know who the holdbacks are and how many are on the team. If you disagree, why?

Does ANYBODY know about Mad Dog West that went to the WSYL?

Would you also like their SS# and blood type? Creeper.

Typical holdback dad response.

Ive heard that S2S has a new coach, that is the head coach of St.Dominics.

Typical response from a dad who makes excuses for his kids... and probably everything else in life. Toughen up.

Apparently a bunch of DC area kids are trying out for a team in NY and the West Coast. That is why people are posting on the MidAtlantic board. But I guess a flight or train ride to NY is still faster than driving the Beltway to Baltimore.

I

The poster’s suggestion that the roster include birthdates (or how about an asterix) was not making any excuse or even expressing a complaint. He merely suggested that parents be informed, and he invited opposing opinion. Hammerhead dads that protect an older snowflake child make the excuse.

A little sensitive there holdback dad. Life outside the bubble of holdbacks can be tough. The on age kid, who plays against the holdback, is plenty tough. You can’t protect your holdback for ever. Maybe he can repeat one more grade.

Of course he wants to keep telling his 15 yr old how great he is beating 13 year olds. Keep living your life thru your kid great for both of you...

This whole forum might as well be dedicated to the holdback debate... old news... boring... we understand where people stand on each side. Move on.

Oh wait - there is also the "Guest Player" debate...

Still better than attacking specific rising 8th graders

Posting ages/birthdates can also have an adverse effect... what happens when you finally see that ‘that kid’ the one everyone talks about and everyone swears is a hold back and driving to the game... is actually on age or at most only a month or two older than on-age... then what do you say to your child, because for years it has been - they are only bigger and better because they are older... but now you may actually have to explain to your kid that some kids are just bigger and better. It is a fact - and is the case with most players that people complain about on this forum.

Next year... maybe not the case, but this year on some of the strongest teams, the kids you think are holdbacks just aren’t. So yes, maybe it would be nice to have the rosters with birthdates posted just to shut some people up.

I agree. This discussion is tired. My kid is not a star player or a holdback. I am still done hearing the whiners on both sides of the debate.

Does McDonogh require 8th grade transfers to repeat that grade? Does the lacrosse coach commend it? Or do parents independently make that decision? Seems like that school is winning the 8th grade transfer holdback lacrosse game.

Typical response from a dad who makes excuses for his kids... and probably everything else in life. Toughen up.[/quote]

A little sensitive there holdback dad. Life outside the bubble of holdbacks can be tough. The on age kid, who plays against the holdback, is plenty tough. You can’t protect your holdback for ever. Maybe he can repeat one more grade.[/quote]

This whole forum might as well be dedicated to the holdback debate... old news... boring... we understand where people stand on each side. Move on.

Oh wait - there is also the "Guest Player" debate...
[/quote]

I agree. This discussion is tired. My kid is not a star player or a holdback. I am still done hearing the whiners on both sides of the debate. [/quote]
Yup. Also the same guy arguing with himself sometimes. Yawn ... next topic please.

2023 is the year of Holdback like most 8th grade years are. With travel so easy , many regions after playing in Mid Atlantic region see what holding your child back does. It was only a matter of time.
Holdbacks numbers are increasing every year. I dont think it is a good thing for the game in long run, but it is what it is.

What do you want to know? My sons team has played them several times over the past few years and knows some of the boys.

I don't understand why people cry and complain about holdbacks. You should be thanking them. They are only hurting themselves to make your kid better. My kid plays up and I love it when he gets to go against kids that are a year or even two years older. The kids that are heldback are held back for a reason. They are not that good and they are not cutting it at their real age group. The kids that are playing up are the ones that are getting better and that will dominate come high school. The holdbacks will quickly get lapped.

Here we go again... don't you all have anything else to discuss???

You are wrong. Many holdbacks are born between May and Aug. Many are actually talented players who would be decent players at their proper age group. Hold them back a year and put them to the head of their age group and they turn into good players.

Being the oldest has helped secure a spot on starting lines ups in youth and it carries thru to HS.
The MIAA is Holdback central. It works. BL, McD are loaded with Holdback starters. Put your head in sand and it doesnt work, there is a reason every coach in MIAA has held his son or daughter back.

Age in youth to 8th grade and grade in HS..Common sense and the way it was in Lacrosse until about 5 years ago.

You're crazy... holdbacks don't get lapped, they take spots from kids that are doing right. Age based teams are the way to go. Basketball and soccer have stopped the holdback BS. its time for lax to step up and stop it. Lacrosse is the only sport that allows holdbacks. STOP THE MADNESS...

Those are the exceptions and not the rule.

Not a requirement. I know I handful of lacrosse players there. None of those repeated 8th grade. Some were held back previously ie preK. Parent decision but would guess school recommends if kid needs to catch up academically. I'm in no way a McD insider. I think most if not all private schools that have a middle school allow the 8th grade repeat. To my knowledge only "required" if the kid can't meet academic standards needed for admission to 9th grade. Do parents decide to repeat for sports? yes. Do coaches and admissions allow it? yes

How many are not on age. At a minimum, the 3 McD kids who did prefirst and one kid who repeated 6th grade and transferred to BL. Those are the most obvious.

Movement is starting at the 23.
So far:
2 Looneys to FCA
1 Looney to Crabs
1 Hawk to Team 91
1 Crab to Looney's

How do you have this inside info for all these teams? Because your son tried out for each of those teams and you saw the helmets?

I have zero inside information on the teams(except one) but I do the players and families involved. Sorry your son hasn't received his call yet.

Of course they do. And especially at the younger ages

No requirement, but if you havent been in McD system for a few years, it may be hard to go straight to 9th grade. They are a difficult academic school and your curriculum may not have been as challenging.

As far as Prek goes. If you are a boy and born in the months on June, July, August...You dont go to 1st grade at McD. You go to prefirst. They are very easy if you want holding your Kindergarten boy back born on any month, but those months, short of genius, you are held back. Very few exceptions. Most lower school grades had over 50% of boys heldback a few years ago. I assume it is still the same. And spare me the BS of there isnt that many ... two kids there

[quote=Anonymous]Movement is starting at the 23.
So far:
2 Looneys to FCA
1 Looney to Crabs
1 Hawk to Team 91
1 Crab to Looney's

None of the 5 are impact players. Impact players stay put. Time for kids to learn how to play a role and compete for additional playing time. HS is right around the corner.

Just my observation...there were 3 or 4 Crabs helmets at the Looney's tryouts on Sunday morning. Don't know how many, if any, were offered spots or if they accepted. At this point, I believe most teams are asking people to keep offers confidential since there are still additional tryout dates.

Where did the Crabs lefty attack man go?

Can someone please explain what's going on with 91 2023? Why are a lot of these kids trying out for Kooper's? Who is 2023 head coach? I don't know how to copy or forward a thread but there is thread going on 2022.

Kind of hard to know which kids are going to make an impact come next Spring. That's a long time for 13 and 14 year old boys. Who knows how many players are going to grow 4 inches, or add 20 pounds of muscle. Or how many are going to spend the Winter getting better, and tougher, playing box (or improving their dodge moves and actually learning how to pick and roll playing basketball).

People assume (know?) that Millon's son is reclassing to 2023. If that happens, people assume that Millon will coach (or at least control) the 2023 team. A lot of kids and parents do not want to play for Millon.

Add that to the team's poor showing in HoCo, and it's not surprising some kids are looking to move.

The Kooper's team was a very good B team last year and is going to try and move up to the A level. The program as a whole is well run and (IMO) less insane than 91MD. So it's not surprising some kids might take a look.

ridiculous statement since I can go to all the teams in 2023 elite and many of their best players started elsewhere

Any changes at DC Dogs or Next Level?

Crabs will be the most improved team picking up some of the top reclassed kids from 2022 teams.

Thought king crab was his 2023 team picked and posted by now.

Interesting. There were almost 40 teams in HOCO and Koopers were in the lowest division but could be improved. However A is still in the lower half. I think it may be some kids that do not like MM however if the team were winning it would be fine. I think the reason kids leave is that it is hard to go two years and not win a game. The club is not smart keeping the team in the Elite group. The players who go to Koopers are smart they simply want to play in competitive games. Koopers would do well in the A div. Previous teams that won the B division (G and PGLC) moved up and finished at the bottom of the next level. Team 91 should play A or AA. Which team would then take the spot at Elite. It may be a long shot but 3d is combining Lax Factory and 3d Mid A which is combining two AA teams that were .500 last season they could with a good tryout make it to Elite.

MM’s son is playing with the 2023 team so no chance it drops from the HoCo elite division. None.

MM’s son is playing with the 2023 team so no chance it drops from the HoCo elite division. None.
[/quote]

That team has some good players and those guys should be looking elsewhere. There are still tryouts going on. By Spring, they will wish they did and didn't ignore the very clear writing on the wall.

You mention 40 teams. Baltimore market is lopsided. 4 played elite. Only 1 (FCA white) played AA and did not belong, one won a single game. Most played A. Some played B.

91 keeps same daddy coaches, plays only the favorite kids, and invites back all the same players each year before tryouts even begin. Now a winning formula.

The Looney's player who left and went to Crabs is a MAJOR impact player.

Add to that the clear two best teams are based in AA and Bethesda

Looney's didnt have any MAJOR impact players last year...

Thanks Dad! I knew Mom was lying when she said you didn't love me.

Crabs are picking up a top scoring attackman from a elite 2022 team. Kid has been playing up for years. You want your kid to get better that’s how you do it. Play up not reclass.

Only 3 of those won at least one game in elite. So drop Md 91 to AA or A. Calling yourself "elite" does not make it so.

The starters on those A and B teams will play at better lacrosse schools than those on elite teams watching from the sidelines.

That kid is a reclass. He has been playing with kids his own age at 22. He now will be a Crab which usually means older.

From what elite 2022 team?

From what I hear YES!!!, Big Changes

RawRiders

False. I know it hurts to know that there is a kid out there that much better than yours. Doesn't mean he is a re-class.

He's referring to kid from Roughriders 2022. Between the Crabs righty that was on their 2022, RR lefty and the kid coming from Looneys (also lefty) they will have a stacked attack. Only one ball to go around. Returning attack moving to midfield or happy to be reserves?

The lefty starting attackman for the prior 3 years left.

He left before summer was over. There were other attack on the roster no?

Don't be surprised if one, or more, of the new players along with some of the returners change positions to midfield. At least one of the returning attackmen was solid and will probably stay on attack. Regardless, the team will be much much stronger than last year.

Remember in Baltimore if you did a prefirst , you are not considered being heldback !! LOL.. I guess when you hold them back in Kindergarden, its a mulligan..
Dont have any idea about this player tho...

Let me guess your next comment... “they are all holdbacks”. If you dont like the zone find a way to beat it. Its possible they lost twice last year.

Wrong we are more of a Miller crowd checking out your wife wearing CFM shoes to the lax field.

If he's coming to Loyola for 8th this fall, he is a reclass. Just like his older brother.

Well Loyola does compete against BL, St P and McD , etc .. They need their share of reclass/prefirst/holdbacks to compete against their reclass/prefirst/holdbacks !

Let keep it real in the MIAA !

Anybody hear about Kooper's hiring Dave Pietramala? What's his role? This is a new angle and will be interesting to see how it plays out.

Program changing. It will help Koopers get to the next level.

Only change is that they win everything in site next year. Baltimore and LI need to realize the new hotbed is the DCizzle for shizzle. Dirty Dawgs be handling business like it aint nothing.

Announcement says director of coaching development

Someone on this forum has an obsession with Koopers - claiming 91 players tried out there, well run, and now Coach P. Don’t recall ever seeing posts about this club here until recent weeks. And the owner/Director don’t have a son in 2023 so, why?

Saw Koopers 2023 players at other tryouts too. Who cares?

This guy is having a conversation with himself.

Rumor has it that Coach Petro is making a career change. Leaving JHU to coach Koopers 2023. Heard it here first people!

Rumor has it that Coach Petro is making a career change. Leaving JHU to coach Koopers 2023. Heard it here first people! [/quote]

And B is the assistant coach...

He's not leaving Hopkins! I can confirm that for sure. No way. However, huge move on Kooper's part because you don't hear of big NCAA coaches doing this type of role.

So for once there isn't a post about Crabs? Isn't this a lacrosse forum about lacrosse news and happenings? This is big news. A lot of buzz going on out and during tryouts and it can make or break decisions on which team. Apparently, Kooper's is making major upgrades and changes. I applaud more competition will be out there rather than the same teams.
I did hear Looney's 2022 AA folded and most of them going to Kooper's.
I can say that I think 91 players were at other tryouts like Looney's and FCA, not just Kooper's. However, I don't think there is a max exodus but I think things are unsettled with MM moving kid down to 2023. There are some loyal players staying at 91 for sure.
Also, there is absolutely no way Petra is leaving Hopkins for a club team.

And there was 5 Koopers kids at 91 tryouts. Grass is always greener elsewhere. Koopers lost HoCo B to Top Caliber. 91 is winless over two years in HoCo elite. Agree Crabs is irrelevant. No one cares.

Those 91 kids are not loyal. With a couple of holdback exceptions, they could not make a legit elite team. So they accept the automatic invite to return.

There a few 'core' kids on 2023 that are definitely loyal to the 91 program that could play on a legitimate elite team. Unfortunately the club has a bad wrap, poor coaching and MM as the owner of the organization. However, since MM son is coming down I can guarantee he will not let this team go winless again at this level. So like his son look for an influx of 22 'reclassifications' coming to 23s for the Spring ONLY.

My son went to MM Elite camp and on more than one occasion heard MM tell kids 'you stink and shouldn't be playing lacrosse". What an ambassador to the game this guy is!! If you are on or considering 91 2023; RUN!!!!

Announcement on Petro said his JHU Dir of Ops is also joining Koopers as assistant dir of coaching. Dir of Ops jobs for college lax teams are very low pay. This is mainly a side hustle for the Dir of OPs and Petro lends his name and does a couple of coaches clinics. He's doing a solid for his buddies who run Koopers and his ops guy can pay a few bills. Still great resources for koopers coaches and players.

I think this is right. Coaching the coaches is likely not a huge commitment in time. I think it’s adding prestige to a club that has struggled outside of the top kids (including Petro’s) on the 2021/22 team.

His 2022 team only won 1 game in Hoco this past season. But somehow that 2022 team won Naptown?!

So the new to be formed Green Turtle and revived Breakers (two teams) have not had a tryout yet. What is the outlook there? Any buzz around the rebranded True Maryland Wolfpack, which held a tryout last week?

Fake News. Hawks 2022 won Naptown

91 Md won NLF, not Naptown; and it did only win 1 game in HoCo

His twin boys play for Koopers. No surprise here.

Think he meant T91 2022 won the NLF National Championship which is much more impressive than winning Naptown.

Safe to say what year has the super intense parents. The 2023 thread has more than double the pages of any other year.

Nothing to do with parents. Every year it is same.

8th grade is the big year of holdbacks/reclassed ! All the kids that werent already held back and Daddy thinks cant make it, stay another year in 8th. Causes all kinds of activity.

8th grade is the last year you can play the youth game with kids a year to two older than most of the other players.

8th grade you still think Laxey Johnny is a great player.

High School years has very little activity and especially very little holdback activity.. MIAA is still full of holdbacks but many kids in public along with MIAA arent and the effects are less.

So basically...it’s the parents!

T91 TX won NLF with the help of a 91 NY and a few 91 MD players. With 91 and Crabs, guest players are the norm.

Breakers is a joke horrible program. Poor coaching and they only play in their own aloha tournaments. Its unethical at best.

Doing something right. Tryout registration email says they are fielding 3 teams at 2023?

How many 91 Md helmets at Koopers tryout today?

Few clubs field two teams and when they do it is rarely a good move. Three teams for a B Club is silly. If they have a large tryout at least make one decent team

3 teams is a money grab. B and C teams should be in MYLA as a better option for many at 1/10 the costs. Get better than move to a good club.
Most Rec ( which are as good as many B and C club teams ) have Spring Season and Indoor winter.

Yea, or repeat a great like most of the kids on the A team. The MIAA and parents of privileged snowflakes have ruined youth lacrosse.

Kelly Post is more competitive and a much better option than any B team in Baltimore.

Nobody cares

Thanks for your opinion, MM, not that we asked.

Post tryout rankings
1. Hawks (wow)
2. DC dogs
3. Crabs
4. FCA
5. Looneys
6.91

Not sure where the others fit in.

What kids from other 23 teams or 22 holdbacks were there? Will they add new pieces? My son was at 3 other tryouts and never saw a Hawks helmet. Not sure what else they do but they seem to keep their core group together

How could you possibly rank these teams at this point? Did you attend each tryout? Have you been given the roster for each team? The only obvious one is 91 being last. And they should not even be included. Breakers and Koopers would beat them.

WOW...three tryouts! Very impressive. We will all take note of your opinion of ranking teams.

They limit the drama as much as possible and support ALL of the kids on the teams. That's the key to success.

This is funny. A parent from 91 must have a son leaving and trying out for Koopers and Breakers. First, no one thinks 91 is ranked 6. They left out NL and Bethesda/DCE. There are 40 teams in HOCO more included in the entire mid atlantic region and 91 should be ranked around 12-13 even with adding a 2022 coach's son. Koopers and Breakers are in the bottom half of this list of teams. PGLC beat all of them the year prior and they struggled the next level up. Name one team either Kooper or Breakers have beaten in the last two years that is Elite or AA?

Breakers and Koopers have beaten the same number of elite teams as 91 - zero.

Breakers has first tryout yeaterday. Their top team will play AA. It will be very good.

Have they ever beaten a team at AA? Glad to see they are moving up but they will be likely a .500 team. That is good but very good? Will other AA teams move up to Elite? I guess it is a matter or comparison. Who is this team close with?

Sorry JJ , didnt mean to hurt your feeling and attack your money flow.

Kelly Post, Cockeysville and others are more competitive at 1/10 the cost. One day sanity might come back to Lacrosse .

Breakers is a unethical money grabbing club

How could you possibly rank these teams at this point? Did you attend each tryout? Have you been given the roster for each team? The only obvious one is 91 being last. And they should not even be included. Breakers and Koopers would beat them.[/quote]
This is funny. A parent from 91 must have a son leaving and trying out for Koopers and Breakers. First, no one thinks 91 is ranked 6. They left out NL and Bethesda/DCE. There are 40 teams in HOCO more included in the entire mid atlantic region and 91 should be ranked around 12-13 even with adding a 2022 coach's son. Koopers and Breakers are in the bottom half of this list of teams. PGLC beat all of them the year prior and they struggled the next level up. Name one team either Kooper or Breakers have beaten in the last two years that is Elite or AA?[/quote]

Breakers and Koopers have beaten the same number of elite teams as 91 - zero. [/quote]

Koopers and 91 have another thing in common - all daddy coaches

Most coaches at this level are daddy coaches, so what’s your point?

This is funny. A parent from 91 must have a son leaving and trying out for Koopers and Breakers. First, no one thinks 91 is ranked 6. They left out NL and Bethesda/DCE. There are 40 teams in HOCO more included in the entire mid atlantic region and 91 should be ranked around 12-13 even with adding a 2022 coach's son. Koopers and Breakers are in the bottom half of this list of teams. PGLC beat all of them the year prior and they struggled the next level up. Name one team either Kooper or Breakers have beaten in the last two years that is Elite or AA?[/quote]

Name one AA team 91 has beaten. We know they did not beat any team in HoCo elite. And they nearly lost to Looneys second (HoCo A champs) in the Koopers league championship. Breakers AA will beat 91 and Koopers in head-to-head.

Not Crabs

So does rec

Except for 2021, Koopers is equal to rec interm of players and coaches but has cool gear

I think the "Daddy Ball" insult is overused and misses the point. It's not that parent coaches are bad, per se. Rather, it's that SOME parent coaches (more often dads, but not always), put their own interests in living through their kid ahead of the team. My son has played for many Dad/Coaches and they have all put the team first. In fact, in many cases their kid ended up getting the short end of the stick - having to play out of position to fill a need, etc.

The obvious downside of "professional" coaches at this level is that they tend to be young kids themselves, right out of college. Teams run the risk that the coach will get a new (real) job and end up missing practice/games.

All for just slightly over $2,000.

The issue at this age isn't really rec versus club. Rec lacrosse at the Junior level is dead. There are very few teams because the older half of any potential team are ineligible because the kids are likely playing in high school. So even the best/biggest rec programs struggle to field teams.

It's too bad, but it is what it is.

Name one AA team 91 has beaten. We know they did not beat any team in HoCo elite. And they nearly lost to Looneys second (HoCo A champs) in the Koopers league championship. Breakers AA will beat 91 and Koopers in head-to-head.[/quote]
Last season AA div had 12 teams. Breakers did not win the A div. If they move up to AA who leaves the AA div? Will they have 13 teams at AA? 91 should clearly move down from Elite will that make 14? If Koopers is AA is that 15? How does a team advertise which HOCO div they will play in prior to tryout? Is there any club that has a solid second team? Answer is NO three teams is a total case of $$ over what is best for the players.

Last season AA div had 12 teams. Breakers did not win the A div. If they move up to AA who leaves the AA div? Will they have 13 teams at AA? 91 should clearly move down from Elite will that make 14? If Koopers is AA is that 15? How does a team advertise which HOCO div they will play in prior to tryout? Is there any club that has a solid second team? Answer is NO three teams is a total case of $$ over what is best for the players.[/quote]

Well, with AA, in terms of number of teams and potential movement, consider that (1) 3D Mid-A and Lax Factory merges so that opens one spot, and (2) two teams had 2 wins and (3) three teams had 1 win. So there is room to move. 91 should drop down from elite and those 1 win teams should drop out. Teams in A that have a good argument to live up are Looneys green and Breakers.

Dad coaches are a reality and in most cases are not an issue but you have to question the motives of a Dad coach if their kid could not make another team at the level they are playing.

Plus those college kids have no idea how to coach and don’t care about the team, it’s just a pay check. If it’s a qualified “dad” I much rather have that.

Well, with AA, in terms of number of teams and potential movement, consider that (1) 3D Mid-A and Lax Factory merges so that opens one spot, and (2) two teams had 2 wins and (3) three teams had 1 win. So there is room to move. 91 should drop down from elite and those 1 win teams should drop out. Teams in A that have a good argument to live up are Looneys green and Breakers. [/quote]
If 91 moves down, who moves up? I thought 3d is now VA and MD (2 teams) If Looneys B moves up then FCA B should move down which is a wash. Breakers could move up but not Koopers unless they gain a lot of talent. Should be a fun spring. Fall will help settle some of this.

Lots of movement, lots of 22's reclassing and either moving or dropping down within the same program. Lots of trash talk by the parents.

It will be interesting to see what emerges come the Spring HOCO season. Personally, I can't wait to hear the insanity from the parents on the sidelines.

--Parent of kid joining an "elite" team after years of playing at the A/B level.

It will be insanity from that parent sees limited paying time

It's quite a apparent that parents or kids who trash teams and intimiately know the details of said teams, their kids were either cut or the team did better without them when they left and they regret their decision.
This has been a pretty informative forum along with respectful opinions. I don't understand the annihilations of other teams. The transparentcy is glaring. Be informative not ignorant or offended because you're not realistic about your own kid.

It’s a small community and most of these kids have played club with and against each other since third grade. The warts on these teams become obvious.

Well said!I feel bad for the kids of the parents that come on here and spew negative comments all the time.There are a lot of good people on here wishing each other well or sharing positive feed back.they should have a separate back of the cage for nasty parents.

Then the forum obviously wouldnt be as much fun to watch. Frankly many over the top remarks about Clubs and coaches have some validity to them. Probably not as bad as Stalin and his Red Lacrosse Club, where you were sent to the gulag for not scoring or letting in a goal. But some of these Clubs are pretty bad along with some insane coaches who shouldnt be coaching

I would not agree that there is much well wishing and positive feedback but there is good information if you can read through the sillyness. I do not think many kids read or post but do feel that calling out kids even by number or description is sad as most kids do know each other and it could get back to them. Talking about a team or coach is fair game IMO as they are the ones who decided to make this a business. I think many of the posts come from clubs attempting to compete for talent. With that, I am curious which teams are improved/ or not based on tryouts. What will the divisions for the spring look like based on the tryouts and which team will have the hottest moms.

I can guarantee you one thing, the Hawks will have the largest Moms. They like 'em big down there.

So what club teams got batter and which took a step back after this tryout season? Does anyone have insight?

They must be Holdback Moms.

I wish this forum was divided by levels...almost all talk is about elite teams; what about the boys/teams that play on A or AA teams who are quality boys and players for clubs who aren't just money grabbers who encourage holdbacks and guest players in tournaments?

I am not even sure you can answer that . It is almost like what team will be the best in HOCO,,,how many holdbacks, limited guest players and limited out of state guys, Mostly local team with local holdbacks.

....Which team will be better in run of the mill tournaments, who has most holdbacks regionally , who has the best guest players and some out of state players .....

and then who will be best in NLF Championship where anything goes, Fly in in from all corners of country, find some local allstar players , holdbacks galore and from anywhere.

It just isnt easy to answer that question anymore..

Ok. So who are the best A or AA teams? Most posts so far have been about 91 Breakers and Koopers are they Elite?

Of course not. Koopers is holding a supplemental tryout. It lost the B championship to Top Calibrr.

It will be an interesting year to day the least as this is the year kids are most likely going to reclassify. Hawks will still be the team to beat at the 2023 Level but the merger of club blue and Madlax to form DC Dogs will be interesting; rumor is this team is loaded with talent. Also sounds like crabs reloaded and have no less than 8 kids playing down an age group; this club is really a disgrace. Also heard FCA made a lot of changes as well and gotten better; Looney’s, BLC and 91 may have all taken a step back. Again all based on the “word” that’s going around after tryouts. But as we all now; it’s all BS until the season starts!!

AAA
hawks
dc dawgs both teams head of the pack
crabs distant third but depends on holdbacks
the rest depends on the day
loneys fca next level dc express 91 (hold back cheaters)
AA
South river cannons cavaliers top three
3D and Madlax (whoops team blew up)
the rest should drop to A
zingo's HLC breakers top 3 teams
loneys thunder both pretty good
East side may make some noise
the rest should form another division
koopers (so many hold backs) and top caliber should move up
enjoy the year boys and girls

Think you forgot VLC who won AA

Roughriders 2023 unable to field a team for second straight year.

Enjoy watching from the sideline with your son.

What does “east side may make some noise” mean?

So?

So this will be there third consecutive year without a win in HoCo elite —. Same as MD 91

"there" third consecutive year?? Neither team is or ever was Elite. 91 should play AA or A. However, HOCO league at this age is large so need to re-set the deck. 5 or 7 teams does not work. Maybe just have A, B, C and have 12 at each. There will be a few mismatched games but better overall games for all teams. Better than a two team league with Hawks and DCD

Good idea. Have 12 team divisions, with subdivisions in each

2019 HOCO 2023 could be:

A Div:
Group one: Hawks, FCA, Looney's, Crabs, SR, Cannons
Group two: DC dogs, NL, DCE, 91, Pick 2 from (VLC, Cav, 3d-LF)

B Div:
Group one: (3d, VLC, CAV: pick one), PGLC, PLC, Top Caliber, MadLax, USS Carriers
Group two: API, FCA W, Looney G, Breakers, Koopers, HLC

C Div:
Group one: Zingos, Lax W, Thunder, Rock, East Side, G, Evergreen, HOCO, Green Hornets, GT?
Group Two: Sidewinders, Bethesda O or DCE-B, MD Wolfpack, MDX, Revolution, Fallston

Slow day at work but I think this could be a better alignment for all the teams. Parks and Rec will receive an invoice in the mail for this research.

DC Dogs is Madlax. Funny how some hate Cabell so much that they refuse to acknowledge that the #1 (or co-#1 with Hawks) 2023 team in HOCO and possible the country is Madlax. But if it makes you feel better, keep calling it DC Dogs and make it sound like it is not Madlax.

Although you have to change "A" to "Elite", "B" to "AA" and "C" to "A". Wouldn't want anyone thinking their team or child was any lower than "A".

More accurately - holdback (9th grade age), A, B

Because of the good players are from club blue. If you call it Madlax everyone will assume the team is lousy since of course it has been for years at 2023.

Lax World folded. Breakers will have 3 teams. 3D should be in B. Koopers should be in C (no upgrade from last year). USS should be in C (got smoked in AA). PGLC should be in B (major drop off last year). Thunder and Rock should should be in B (4 and 3, 3 and 5 in A last year). Will GT even be able to field a team?

Koopers went undefeated in HOCO B div. until losing a close championship to Top Caliber. Most of their games were not even close. They should be in B with Top Caliber or A based on the current divisions.

How did Madlax (aka DC Dawgs) do against Hawks last year?

Interesting theory, this team is good and even made it on ESPN 3 where they were referred to as DC Dogs on the screen and by the announcers. Is it a mass conspiracy by the lacrosse world to call this team DC Dogs just to show hate toward the club owner? HMMM maybe it could be most refer to this team by that name because they call themselves DC Dogs?? They even have a uniform that is unlike any other Madlax team. If they wanted to be referred to as Madlax why the DC dogs with a different uniform and logo? It is a very very good team and I have never met or spoken with Cabell and could care less and do not hate. However, this team is also not a co-#1 until they beat Hawks.

its dawgs...

Oh those Mate Dei kids that should be in High School? Gotcha....Men against boys..... Things will get real for those holdbacks in High School

touche

why is that? they all will be driving to practice as freshmen, There just cheaters!!!! but most of them are great kids. Go back to birthdays LIKE ALL OTHE SPORTS. problem solved

Don't get the allure of Blackwolf. Google the guy. Sounds like he should have been a priest in Western PA. Pretty bad for the game that some parents will overlook such things to advance their son's careers.

My son is a 2022 and played after the 2023 championship game. Am I not remembering correctly or didn't DC Dawgs lose that game to True? How are they co-#1 with Hawks? Has DC Dawgs ever actually won a tournament?

Do they even have a 2023 team? This is a random attempt to really smear someone hope your facts or correct. If you are concerned stay away but why the public post?

Lets remember as Club blue they lost the last 3 times to hawks and as DC Dogs they lost again in the summer (that's 4 in a row). So how are they #1. I would still give #1 to the Hawks, you have to beat them to be #1

It is a matter of public record for those who do not want to ignore it. BW parents are either unaware or intentionally and shamefully ignorant.

Dc dawgs won the Millon 2023 national championship against true and lost to true in the NLF championship.

They are not a factor at this age group why post it here?

Wouldn't surprise me if the Hawks don't even make the playoffs this year. Reason: Zero impact 2022 holdbacks have tried out. If rumors are true about Crabs, DC Dogs, FCA, and others getting an impact holdback or getting several, those teams have a chance to be better. Thems the facts

This year there will be more holdbacks than ever. it is an epidemic now and it will not be letting up.

The privates will have their quota of helback Kindergarten kids ( prefirst ) , but now the occasional 8th grade reclass is turning into a flood.

Pretty sad behavior.

Mater Dei School showcases all that is wrong with a system that rewards being older and being judged against younger peers. Complete garbage from people who want their children to have an edge over other children.

Hawks did not have many (2-3) hold-backs tryout because the team is pretty much already set. As long as the Hawks keep their big guns healthy they should once again dominate.
Crabs lost their top offensive player.
Sad to see what has become of Looneys Lacrosse Club. More talent then anyone but cannot put it together on the field.
Hold-backs went to FCA (big time) and Crabs.

Hawks have the best goalie, pole, LSM, attackman, and Fogo... they will be fine.

Crabs picked up the top 2 attackmen hands down (including the ridiculous T91 MD holdback) as well as one of the top close D players. All played up last year and are not holdbacks (true age appropriate 23’s).

So OBVIOUS this is a Breakers kid or parent (probably one cut from Kooper's) with the passive aggressive comments to undercut. Kooper's also went to 3 tournament championships last year. Let's stay somewhat neutral.....Yeah, right! Should be interesting to see how it all plays out. Was Thunder not that strong last year?? Did Green Turtle not get a team together?

Your first say the 91 kid is a holdback than say he played up and is not a holdback. So which is it?

Kooper's is holding a supplemental because they cut average players and are having a small group coming to be evaluated but decided to open it to community. It's either have 3 tryouts and cancel 3rd if team is set or have 2 tryouts and add a 3rd if needed. For sure, they will not be in Elite or AA (maybe by tournament season). Somebody had a great HoCo re-division idea in later post. Read up HoCo!

3 B tournaments

I think many of the comments come from parens who are sour grapes about being cut or lack of playing time. They also control what teams their sons play on rather than let the kid deciding. I feel bad for some of these kids. Especially, the club hoppers. We had a kid leave our club who is going to his 4th club team and it's at the hands of his parents decision.

Hawks have best attackman by far. They also have arguably the best lefty attackman. This includes the holdback pickups.
The righty is the best... by a mile. Also have the best goalie and close D.

This team beat Wolfpack, Rockfish, MDX, Fallston, etc in B and did not improve at tryouts. It is an A/B club.

Clearly you have not seen the kids the Crabs picked up play yet. The hawks better start teaching real defense and get rid of that rec level zone

My post came off like I'm a Hawks supporter. Not the case. I hope you're right and the Hawks don't even make the playoffs. I find them ridiculous because every one of the players mentioned is 15 save for maybe the goalie. Can't say I like the Crabs any better though. Same cheating as the Hawks.

8th grade is all about the Holdbacks ! and that includes prefirst, they are holdbacks

Saying that the hawks are all 15 year olds over and over might make you feel better, but it doesn't make it any more true than the first time you posted it.

as far as the 'rec level" zone goes, I guess the all the cracker jack elite teams in hoco last year should have brought in some "rec level" player and coaches to beat it. . . surely, that was the answer.

And last I checked, the hawks defense was not the ones scoring an average of 14 plus goals against their opponents last spring. while playing every kid on the roster. Maybe their offense is running "rec league" plays too? so unfair.

as for tryout season, I can guarantee the Hawks roster will be 95% the same as last year. and the year before that.
BUT, now that crabs, FCA, Looneys, flavor of the month club up there have traded, held back, swapped, bribed, whatever, new rosters, maybe Hoco will be more competitive this spring.

as much as is galls the Baltimore lacrosse elite, AA county kids can play lacrosse too. And, guess what? They do it while remaining loyal to their teammates and coaches. Even if they lose a few games this spring, and this board lights up with glee, I wouldn't trade places with you club jumpers and back stabbers ever. boy, it must be miserable playing lacrosse up there.

Did any crabs join the hawks roster?

I bet this guys kid is going to Spalding. Hahaha.

The Hawks have had a great team the last few years. Kudos to the kids, coaches and parents.

I just don't think it's reasonable to conclude that their roster stability is the result of some innate loyalty of AA residents. The fact is that AA has one elite level team. The Towson/Northern Baltimore County area (with probably fewer kids to recruit from) has four or so (we can all argue over which teams count, are overrated, etc.). The kids in the Towson area simply have more choices (especially when you include all the next tier teams). That is naturally going to lead to a lot of movement as kids (parents) seek what they think of as the best fit.

That doesn't take away from the Hawks success - they are one of the best club teams (ie, not all star, one-off creations) in the country. But having their parents come on here and snipe about how miserable Baltimore folks must be....well it seems like you're demonstrating the opposite of the attitude you claim to support.

Obviously you have no clue how old these kids are. Ask the parrnts tgey will show you their state Id that most of them carry. Im sure you wont since this whole board is full of cowards.

Errr....not accosting parents on the sidelines demanding they produce ID for their kids is proof that people are cowards? Interesting. I'd think it was a sign of not being insane.

I might agree with you if those "not insane parents" weren't on the sideline calling kids out by number and making the same old tired comments about driving the team bus, shaving, old enough to drink/vote, etc.

Anyone hear rumors of Hawks fielding two teams? Will they both play in the elite division?

Anyone hear rumors of Hawks fielding two teams? Will they both play in the elite division?


He asked kids that have been there to be "program" players and be cut to a B team but still pay him $2k? If there is a B team, I doubt many of the better kids stay. They tried a B team 2 years ago at that age level and they got killed and even the coaches quit. AYLA will take over as Hawks B in my opinion. Lots of clubs in that area.

Uh oh... trouble in AA County - I thought this was a tight knit team that everyone was loyal to and hardly ever changed their roster? Isn't that what the hawks parents keep saying?

Truth is very little change at the top this year. Hawks and DC Dogs AKA Madlax DC Dogs are still the top with no much changing in the rosters. How are the other Montgomery Co. teams? Did DCE get much at tryouts? Did NL loose much, both are solid teams. Will N.VA be able to put together a decent team?

Uh oh... trouble in AA County - I thought this was a tight knit team that everyone was loyal to and hardly ever changed their roster? Isn't that what the hawks parents keep saying?

Bay Raiders will shock people in the 1st year.

Hawks cuts flocking to a new nest. No B team cash grab for Hogan at this level. Cut kids that have been on the team for several years.

Sounds like lots of 2023 kids looking. Rec team South River cut a dozen ? AYLC packed at tryouts, API pickling up kids. Why play B and be neglected.

Hawks is just fine. You jealous babies need to find something else to whine about. For real, it’s getting old.

Well, if the car keys fit the car and they drive away with a full beard and a six pack next to them, whats the issue?

Are we talking about Crabs, Hawks, Looneys or FCA? I’m confused because there are holdbacks, rednecks and daddy coaches on all of those teams?

Rednecks on FCA? All country club privileged elites who are buddies with dad coaches and of course have holdback children but no rednecks. Loonwys has the RN market covered.

So who picked up the 2022 hawks goalie ?

I do not correlate the word “elite” with FCA. Every team has holdbacks and yes RN’s...even FCA. Point is you cannot call out one team for holdbacks or dad coaches when every team has them! Name one...just one team that doesn’t have either a dad coach or a holdback? Most have both and that’s the way it is with all teams. The only difference is some teams have much better players and coaches and most of the good players are not the holdbacks.

Zingos will be much much better. very underrated with one of the best defense coaches on the planet.

Hawks and MLDCD are the best teams at this age but who are the best teams that are truly on age. Only one local team in HOCO that played at the WSYL and that was NL. There are teams that have rosters of kids with birthday's after 9/30/2004 that play in HOCO. Who is the best of those teams?

Hawks.

SR or Team 91 over VLC? VLC won the AA league and beat 91 by 8 goals or something. Unless Millon hoodwinks HoCo again, Team 91 belongs in AA.

Who cares

I posted the original idea of the re-set of HOCO league. My son plays on an Elite team and I like the idea of playing a greater variety of teams. I think the league could support 3 -12 team division with groups that would still ensure the top teams make the playoffs. Also 91 does not want to loose all the games again. I agree that VLC should be the first team added in the "A" div under what I posted based on winning AA maybe USS moves to middle or lower and Zingo's can be whatever. The point is that three divisions is better for all teams. Some teams seem to always play each other. sometimes twice in the same tournament. A 12 team division makes more sense. In the end the same two teams would play for the trophy.

How does one acquire that title

You might want to go back and look at your goals against coach. And then settle down

Most who think they are the best love to elaborate. Give him a second, and I am sure he will write a novel explaining.

Both jealous I see! Cream rises to the top. Its called nature

How did VLC do in its summer tournaments against AA Elite type talent? Oh yeah, that's right. Might want to stay in AA. None of SR, Cannons, VLC, Cav or 3d belong in AA Elite, but if any of you want to get your heads beat in, go ahead and petition for AA Elite for the spring.

New goalie for 2023 Hawks...just as good as stud goalie some say better. The rich get richer!

You are delusional and your B/C team is irrelevant. It’s nice to dream big though.

Zingos are like a rec team at this level. They are underrated because they played in the 3rd division of HoCo. Who is the new defensive coach? The guy from last year was a clown.

That clown lost it every time the defense got scored on, which was a lot.

Somebodies eyes are GREEN with ENVY !!

How many of these posts are from opposing coaches trying to boost their clubs?

You’re funny, I will give you that.

if hawks and DC dogs want to recruit add hold backs cheaters let them play each other every week. why should HOCO carter to them. Add more division so every team plays each other in there division. Six teams play everyone once then playoffs. double elimination tournament

Zingos - the Evergreen of Maryland.

Please do us all a favor and go back to school...

This just in:

August 21, 2018 by Edward Lee Contact Reporter Baltimore Sun:

The Johns Hopkins men's lacrosse team is a surprise announcement informed the media the head coach Dave Pietramala is leaving the Hopkins program to coach the Zingo's 2023 team. "It has always been a dream of mine to capture a HOCO league title." The often emotional coach struggled to keep it together after sharing the news with players this morning. The often labeled "best defensive coach on the planet" will be reclassing two top 2022 players along with some current Blue Jay's in an effort to make a claim to belong in the Elite division.
According to ESPN lacrosse analyst Quint Kessenich, this could be a lucrative deal for coach Petro as he understands team fees in excess of $20000.00 per player will be waived for children of coaches. "Although the team fee may seem excessive it is only a 10% increase and includes a great gear package." from Zingo management. ESPN and the Baltimore Sun reached out to form Hopkins great Paul Rabil for comment, "What the heck is a Zingo?"
Editor's note: adding one zero to the current 2000.00 team fee is not a 10% increase.

I bet his first order of business will firing the best defense coach on the planet.

Funny stuff. But I thought he had already committed to coaching Koopers 2023 ? Club lacrosse is finally getting the coaches needed

?????

Nope. All dad coaches on that team.

No way!!!!

Doesn't his son play for Koopers?

From where?

Hawks 2023 getting a new goalie [/quote]


we will see, isn't that what tryouts are for[/quote]

Is the 2023 goalie that played on Hawks 2022 dropping down to play with Hawks or going elsewhere?
[/quote]
This is very sad both goalie dad's posting to try to get the other goalie not to attend a tryout or something. You both must know each other but posting about rising 8th graders? I hope future college coaches know that they are getting crazy parents which only hurts the recruiting chances with some coaches. [/quote]

I was at tryouts and saw a DC Express kid at goalie and he was a stud. Better than the other two!!! [/quote]

we will see, isn't that what tryouts are for[/quote]

Is the 2023 goalie that played on Hawks 2022 dropping down to play with Hawks or going elsewhere?
[/quote]
This is very sad both goalie dad's posting to try to get the other goalie not to attend a tryout or something. You both must know each other but posting about rising 8th graders? I hope future college coaches know that they are getting crazy parents which only hurts the recruiting chances with some coaches. [/quote]

I was at tryouts and saw a DC Express kid at goalie and he was a stud. Better than the other two!!! [/quote][/quote]



we will see, isn't that what tryouts are for[/quote]

Is the 2023 goalie that played on Hawks 2022 dropping down to play with Hawks or going elsewhere?
[/quote]
This is very sad both goalie dad's posting to try to get the other goalie not to attend a tryout or something. You both must know each other but posting about rising 8th graders? I hope future college coaches know that they are getting crazy parents which only hurts the recruiting chances with some coaches. [/quote]

I was at tryouts and saw a DC Express kid at goalie and he was a stud. Better than the other two!!! [/quote][/quote]



we will see, isn't that what tryouts are for[/quote]

Is the 2023 goalie that played on Hawks 2022 dropping down to play with Hawks or going elsewhere?
[/quote]
This is very sad both goalie dad's posting to try to get the other goalie not to attend a tryout or something. You both must know each other but posting about rising 8th graders? I hope future college coaches know that they are getting crazy parents which only hurts the recruiting chances with some coaches. [/quote]

I was at tryouts and saw a DC Express kid at goalie and he was a stud. Better than the other two!!! [/quote][/quote]

There was actually 4 goalies at tryouts. Their regular starter was by far the best followef by the second string goalie. The DC united holdback I believe made the team also. Not the goalie dad or a Hawks parent as my son didnt make the team.

we will see, isn't that what tryouts are for[/quote]

Is the 2023 goalie that played on Hawks 2022 dropping down to play with Hawks or going elsewhere?
[/quote]
This is very sad both goalie dad's posting to try to get the other goalie not to attend a tryout or something. You both must know each other but posting about rising 8th graders? I hope future college coaches know that they are getting crazy parents which only hurts the recruiting chances with some coaches. [/quote]

I was at tryouts and saw a DC Express kid at goalie and he was a stud. Better than the other two!!! [/quote][/quote]


Any DCE helmet at a 2023 tryout is reclassing. DCE teams begin at 8th grade. Clearly any DCE helmet wasn't good enough to stay on age.

What’s a recommended A/B club for this grade in the Towson/Baltimore area? Looking for stability, development, and, for next year, high school program. Son will start/play a lot. New to the area and need to choose.

Read the comments prior to yours. There are NONE. Pick any of supposed Top teams and ALL are messed up in one way or another. If your son is a starter..It doesnt really matter. Crabs, FCA, seem to be near top with tons of holdbacks going into MIAA schools, If you are a public school boy then any of rest will do, You have Looneys, Team 91 New and improved with MM watching over LOL, Breakers.
All practice near Towson.

Good luck in your quest to find a stable developmental team. No one has found one yet!

The "elite" teams have all concluded tryouts and their rosters are set. Unless you (1) know someone or (2) your son is the second coming (and you also know someone), those clubs aren't an option.

Even most of the A/B teams in the area have also finished tryouts, but I would guess that they are more likely to let your son come out over the Fall and guest for a tournament and evaluate him then for next Spring. The two I'm most familiar with (although my son plays for neither):

(1) Rock -- The 2023 team has had a lot of turnover the last few years. There is a new young coach, Mike Marshner who will be taking over as the head coach (he was an assistant the last two years). The prior coach, Ricky Matthews, will still be around, but is coaching the 2024 team. Likely the 2023s will play some games/tournaments with 2024s. The program itself is focused on player development, but don't expect to win a lot of games. Rock continues (at least for now) to have a pretty solid high school recruiting program. They will often combine their Baltimore and PA teams for recruiting events. Contact: Kevin Mayer coachmayer@rocklacrosse.net

(2) Koopers -- The 2023 team played B last year and was pretty successful. I believe they lost a few of their players (FO kid?) but, at least prior to tryouts, were planning on moving up to play A level. The program is well run and stable. I don't know much about the 2023 coaches, but the program is pretty excited about bringing in Hopkins coach, Dave Pietramala, as their Coaches Coach. The program director, Ron Klausner, is very connected and is a great resource. I can almost guarantee he'd be happy to speak with you. The email I have is: ronklausner@kooperslacrosse.com If that doesn't work, there is a contact link on their website: https://www.kooperslacrosse.com/home

Good luck to your son.

Thanks. This is helpful. How do Breakers, Green Turtle and True Wolfpack compare with the two you mention?

First, you can cross Rock off the list. I just heard that Rock has folded its 2023 team. :0

I'm not that familiar with Breakers, Greene Turtle and Wolfpack. I do know that Breakers sends me emails constantly. And Greene Turtle 2023 is what used to be Lax World. That Lax World team had some good players, but I was never impressed with their player development - the team often seemed to run on just letting a few athletic/talented players freelance. But that's an outsiders view, and with them coming under Greene Turtle, things might be different.

Do you know for certain that the Koopers FO kid left? What other players left?

Best defender

It's been a terrible tryout year......kids are going from hero to zero because holdback and pre-first kids are obviously more sought out after than kids that quite frankly have not hit puberty yet....Really annoyed by this whole process...Talented kids loosing their spot to a kid that should be in High School and in some cases can drive to 8th grade lacrosse practice.... They system is so jacked....

Don't fight the system. Have your kid show up at the 2024 tryouts

I heard he tried out for FCA and Crabs and didn’t make it so ended up at Looney’s. Should help out that team win more FOs then they did last year.

Looneys Orange? What about the 2 they had?

That's my son , always the smallest but talented. It is at a point that he does not want to play this year., The whole youth lax scene is sickening.

That would be a mistake - assuming he still loves playing the game. Make it clear to him that being on "x" team when he's 13 years old isn't the deciding factor in his [lacrosse] life.

If it helps, remind him that Paul Rabil didn't even START playing lacrosse until he was 12.

There are a lot of teams out there that would love to have a talented kid. If he loves the game and keeps working, in a few years all the holdback kids will no longer have the age/size advantage and your son will be able to play on an even field.

Teams have 5-7 holdbacks at most. Stop crying that they are taking over your team. There are still 15 or more spots filled by on age kids. If your son didn't make it it probably means he didn't belong on that team. There are so many options out there and there is a place for everyone. But if your son didn't make Crabs or FCA it's not because all the holdbacks forced him out. Things change. In a year your son may be the one that pushes someone else off the roster.

So, it's only a 1/4 of the team? That's A LOT.

- Someone not crying. Parent who is happy son is on his first choice team with several of his good friends.

No more early recruiting has neutered the advantage that holdback kids used to have on the on age kids. All of these kids will be on an even playing field in 12-15 months, and will have plenty of time to showcase their skills to college coaches. This is also the time that a lot of these kids will crush Dad’s lacrosse dreams for their son when they decide they want to concentrate on football, soccer, wrestling or whatever sport they find more joy in playing.

Considering not playing at all this year so he can train and work with coaches away from the madness and stupidity of club lacrosse.... High School lacrosse and another year of growth will help him to bypass these holdback kids that get a pass because they are bigger and stronger... Not necessarily better lacrosse players

Quote: "Considering not playing at all this year so he can train and work with coaches away from the madness and stupidity of club lacrosse.... High School lacrosse and another year of growth will help him to bypass these holdback kids that get a pass because they are bigger and stronger... Not necessarily better lacrosse players"

Keeping him out of club and just training may not necessarily resolve the issue favorably. My son is small so we're dealing with it too. And I am no fan of the holdbacks at either delayed kindergarten entry, prefirst or 8th. But some of the kids "that get a pass because they are bigger and stronger" are not holdbacks. Just bigger kids who hit puberty earlier than your son or mine. It's the genetic lottery & some kids grow earlier than others and are on age. That isn't going to necessarily change in 9th grade. You just have to keep him playing - at any level - and training until that growth spurt happens.

It sounds like your post in sincere. There is a ton of trash talk in these posts and if you are looking for honest advice from anonymous people I will try my best. You can take or leave this advice. I would really speak with my son about playing on a TEAM this year. I started in 8th grade and played on a D1 program. It was a different era and that my not be relevant to today. However the point I want to make it this: Lacrosse is a fun team sport. There is a team for every kid. I have watched different levels and this is true. If you are considering personal training with coaches for your son, ask yourself this: is that fun? is it more fun that games? What kid wants to train and work hard for the season after next? In my opinion kids brains do not see that far into the future. Why prepare for HS before you start 8th grade? Private coaching can be good but you can only get better playing lacrosse and games are fun. I would work to find a team that he fits in and remember that the team is what it is all about or at least was for me and is for my son.

Holdback apologist. It is usually a few more on supposed top teams. But that means these kids gaming the system have taken 5-10 spots that should be taken by on age players. thats 25% to 50% of team players. Pretty sorry state for youth lacrosse.

Great post.

That’s all excuses. Maybe you kids are not that good. Every heard of Joey Sankey ? What is he 5’5” maybe? Elite lacrosse is for not everyone. My son plays on a elite 2022 team. Always one of the smallest kids on the team but plays like he is one of the biggest on the field. He loves playing against older bigger kids. They cannot cover him. His older brother is 2020 player twice as big but half the player.. Lax IQ speed quickness stick skills and heart. You have that you can play at any level.

Just hold your dwarf's back already or send them to the cathedral all boys choir, but PLEASE stop posting the same old tear in my beer, any excuse to give up and blame someone else for my troubles crap here day after day.

You live in a hot bed for Lacrosse and your kid got launched because they wanted someone else. It's happened to the best so who are you??

Go somewhere else to play or if your kid is as great as you say....put him on a level playing ground physically and mentally with all these Jolly Giant's and have him repeat.

More than likely...YOU know that repeating wouldn't change your situation one bit and THAT is what really burns your arses.

Again, whatever you do...STOP talking and actually DO something...for your kid's sake.

100% agree. They will all catch up in HS. Some of our team's smaller players are the mightiest and most aggressive. Our biggest player was let go was slow and timid. A kid who was small and a defender came to our team before tournament season and oh my, he was RELENTLESS! Our big soft guy was intimidating at first glance on field but when game started, it was our mighty mouse who made players go horizontal and frustrated. Please contact coaches or directors of teams you have interest in. Good organizations will walk you through this thought process and talk to you about their team's needs.
Tell your son to keep practicing and strength train. He will be good!

Hilarious,,spoken like a parent that knew his son couldnt compete against children the same age. What to do..Give his child an advantage others same exact age dont get. According to your church choir, thats in the spirit of YOUTH sports, LOL ...maybe , just maybe, youth sports played by children wasnt meant to give select players like you son an advantage others dont get.

Yawn. Move on. The horse is dead.

I'm not a holdback apologist. My son is on one of the 2 teams I mentioned and he is not a holdback. There is no team with 10 holdbacks. Like I said, there are 5-7 older kids on these teams. And even if they are older it's only be a few months. That leaves 15 or so spots that are filled by on age kids. If your son didn't make it he got beat out by 15 kids his age. What is your excuse about those because I'm sure there is one? Do you just tell him it's politics? They're in 8th grade now. This is when kids really start to separate in terms of athleticism. Being big and slow is no better than small and weak. Both FCA and Crabs got rid of kids that were holdbacks and added on age kids this year. Those holdback kids were bigger and better when they were younger but kids have caught up now.

Yes that is why we have so many kids being held back in 8th grade this year. Do you really expect people to believe you??. Crabs cutting MIAA holdbacks over on age kids. LOL.

You don't have to believe me. The rosters will be posted shortly and you can believe it then. Crabs cut several kids that went to prefirst. Crabs didn't have anyone that was repeating 8th grade last year. Neither did FCA. That seems to be a Hawks thing these days.

Fca added a player from 91 who is repeating 8th grade and one from Crabs who repeated 6th grade (played 2022 and 2023 for Crabs). Those two are obvious. Sure there are others. And Crabs has at least three others, all at McD, who did prefirst.

FCA added 2022 holdbacks and cut on age players from last year. The ones I'm aware of include a middie from 91 and several middies and attack from Crabs. Maybe they also cut some kids who were kindergarten holdbacks, but they added a number of 8th grade holdbacks.

I do agree that the advantages of an extra year (not "a few months") are beginning to fade at this point. But to discount the advantages it gives these kids (and their parents) ignores reality.

Not a single 8th grade repeat on the Hawks team... unless the non-impact new goalie is. dummy.

Not a single 8th grade repeat on the Hawks team... unless the non-impact new goalie is. dummy.[/quote]

The Hawks picked up a holdback goalie at 2023? Why? The goalies they had were amazing. Why would they pick up a holdback that wasn’t even all that great to begin with. They did that at the 2022 level last year as well.[/quote][/quote]

Sorry your son didn't make it this year former backup goalie dad

The holdback apologists all give the same songs and dances. Everyone knows it is a good advantage while young and gets less and less as the boys get to higher HS grades and college.

What would you rather have, a bunch of good 19 year old HS players or a bunch of good 18 year HS players. Obvious answer to any HS coach.

Most studies say around 19-21 is about the end of physical differences in boys. Not talking about Puberty growth, talking about bulk weight and weight training development.

What is the answer? Not obvious to me ... maybe i want to 18 yo who had to beat the odds over the 19 yo snowflake that needed a silver spoon. Those who earn things do better in life than those merely given them.

Now we know you are lying. I am 46 years old and found I am much better at gaining bulk and weight now than I was when I was 19-21

One thing about this age group and area is that there are no Virginia teams with the "holdback/re-class" issue. The best are a notch below the elite teams but in Virginia it is just not a "thing" players do. Will this level the playing field in the years to come?

OMG this holdback discussion was a dead horse a long time ago. Same guy whining about it over and over. Get a life. In a year, in 9th grade, no one will give a crap about this. My son is average sized and on age and I have no idea if his teammates or opposing players are holdbacks or not. Nor do I care.

I thought the Moderators created a special Holdbacks thread for this guy to mindlessly vent. Please take that discussion there. Moderators, please don't allow more of the Holdback crap on this thread.

There are private schools and wealthy parents in VA. Wealthy parents sometimes hold back their kids at private schools because they can. Sometimes those kids play lacrosse. It is a thing everywhere. Some of the more talented ones play in MD. Other hold backs are less talented so nobody cares and you don't even know

I’m beginning to miss the Zingos coach talking out his a**. I can only handle so much holdback crying.

Can you at least try to be little truthful. Yea a 46 year old can train and be in better shape for sports than a 21. You need to read up on male physical development. Bulk weight and lifting doesnt mean that eating 10 twinkies and gaining five lbs while lifting is better than some 21 year who needs tons of carbs and meat while lifting to gain 5 lbs. LOL.. You should try out for the Ravens, sounds like you are in better shape than those pesky college boys that are drafted

Now that tryouts are complete, will there be any changes to the rankings at 2023? Which teams improve the most? Any team go backwards?

Well, what is your insight?

Who cares? It’s all about all star and national teams now. Local club teams are the new rec, with elite being the travel teams and the rest being house teams.

How many "out of state" (Virginia does not count) players on the roster for Hawks and MLDCD?

Zero for the Hawks - Virginia and the District included. All MD boys... mostly from within a 25 mile radius.

with 1/2 of them driving themselves to practice

Quint's physique > Nutjob Zingos d coach physique

Shut up! You know nothing. Zingo Defense guru once coached a game with a severed arm and a pitbull clamped down on his leg. #toughness #ripped #genius

Brian King Sr and his son are coaching this year. I heard that the Lax World coach's son is moving to an elite team. It's Towson because the "Greene Turtle Towson" bar sponsors them.

This is the age that some boys will hit puberty separate from the later bloomers. My kid is on age 2023 (Turns 14 this December) and he's 5'11" 145lbs and had to start shaving last year. I'm sure most who see him on the field think he is a "holdback" or "pre-first" and neither are the case. Looks can be deceiving so stop judging and look for the best experience for your son. The "best" team is where a player enjoys playing and is driven to improve, not necessarily the one with the best record.

Is this in response to another post? Are you referring to GT 2023? Is King the JC Coach?

In a lot of ways that is the way Youth lacrosse is going. It is anything goes. From the unlimited holdbacks and out of state players.. The final result will be youth all star teams with players from everywhere competing any whatever they want..leagues, tournaments, etc. Another sad way of youth lacrosse direction

Years ago, no one would have said anything except ..boy that kid is big for his age. Not now. With the epidemic of holdbacks/prefirsts/reclass expect to hear it. Too many are big and heldback. You are the exception.

Is your son a middie for Looneys?

Brian King is GT 2023 coach. His son Brian is assistant.

Good recruiting move. Thought he would be involved in UC. Do they have enough to field a team? The good Lax World players went elsewhere.

From what I understand, the top two teams in 2023 have a few older birthday's (PRE K) but did not add to what were already top teams with 2022 players re-classing. They are basically the same teams as last year. Crabs who took a step back last year and may have added one or two 2022 players. Going into this season:
Who is bringing in out of state players? Team 91? why would any parent book a flight for a team with no HOCO wins in two seasons?
There are national tournaments. Teams like True and Duke's advertise this so I do not see this as an issue. True could not win without a few locals. Madlax had a National team that would loose by 10 goals or more if they played the local Madlax team. The Virginia teams have little impact as they are spread among three or four teams. Other than the MM championship and the Naptown event, not much impact from "national" teams. Most teams get players from within a 25 mile radius. Is Freedom a National team?

Freedom is not a national team.

2023 AA update. Info provided mainly by my 13 year old and a know it all neighbor:

Hawks: No info other than they were really good last year, well coached and other than a couple kids, weren’t very big. Chances are they added some good players and others will hit puberty
Club Blue: Now part of Madlax and my sons says best players from Next Level are jumping ship to DC Dogs. Maybe caught up to Hawks on paper.
Crabs: Righty attackman back down from 2022. Lefty rom 22 Roughriders and lefty from Looneys make up all star attack. Only 1 ball… A few departures including top midfielder and middle of roster guys.
FCA: Maybe biggest jump in talent as they picked up the aforementioned Crabs players plus 22 reclasser from 91
Looneys: Lost their best offensive player to Crabs. Rumor has the former Crabs lefty returning to Looneys.
Next Level: Could be tough going if they lost top players to DC Dogs
BLC: Turn into DC Express. Got no info
91: Maybe marginally better but will be tough sledding in elite division

From what I understand, the top two teams in 2023 have a few older birthday's (PRE K) but did not add to what were already top teams with 2022 players re-classing. They are basically the same teams as last year. Crabs who took a step back last year and may have added one or two 2022 players. Going into this season:
Who is bringing in out of state players? Team 91? why would any parent book a flight for a team with no HOCO wins in two seasons?
There are national tournaments. Teams like True and Duke's advertise this so I do not see this as an issue. True could not win without a few locals. Madlax had a National team that would loose by 10 goals or more if they played the local Madlax team. The Virginia teams have little impact as they are spread among three or four teams. Other than the MM championship and the Naptown event, not much impact from "national" teams. Most teams get players from within a 25 mile radius. Is Freedom a National team?
[/quote]

Which are the top 2 teams?

After two seasons 91 should give another team a shot at a win in the Elite division

Your 13 year old and nosy neighbor did a pretty good job. Only thing I would change is that you're giving a little too much credit to the Crabs middie that left. Was marginal at best.

Isn't the big stud lefty from Syracuse?

Freedom is definitely a national team now. They have several good local kids from Philly but the rest are Dukes Nationals kids from all over the country. Not to mention their guest players that show up.

Which are the top 2 teams?[/quote]
Are you really asking? If you watched any 2023 games in the past year it is Hawks and DC Dogs (ML) in a tier above the rest.

Incorrect. A number of Freedom players also play (or played) on Duke's Nationals, however the players are most certainly local to the Philly area.

Zingos will be much improved. Defense wins championships.

And Zone defenses win HOCO championships

Sweet - we're allowed to post again!

Do long as there is not TMI posted! What are the best tournaments this fall?

Don't you think the zone will become the norm on defense in the future

No, Breakers

Interested in feedback from long-term coaches or experienced parents: Do the kids who have been at the top of the age group over the years tend to remain at the top throughout high school or is it more common to see significant turnover in the top players after puberty? Does turnover tend to occur more with defenders where a big physical kid who is years behind in stick skills can still be really impactful? I understand that the 2023s who have already had their growth spurt are temporarily advantaged but assume late developers will soon catch up. What to expect afterwards? What have you seen?

If your team's main defense is a a zone, you need to find another team. Zone defense does very little, if anything, to develop kids and if your son's coach is running this it is because they either don't know how to or don't care about coaching/developing players.

Someone is going to pipe up and say - but they run zones in HS and college...blah blah blah. The objective is different in HS & College - there they are primarily worried about winning, the coach gets paid to win. In the youth ages the coach should be worried about developing the kids so that they are able to make a HS or College team and be a contributor. Standing around in a 3-3 zone does nothing for your son.

I agree. Development of player is key prior to high school. Zone teaches nothing about how to play defense. All it does is teach players how to grow roots at the youth level.

2022 API Diamondbacks. All zone, all the time. See their regression over the years in HoCo when kids get bigger and can shoot and move the ball vs. a zone. Works really well when kids are young, but if you can't change it up, team figure it out. We'll see what happens with the Hawks 2023.

2015 (6-0) 99 GF 15 GA
2016 (6-0) 56 GF 26 GA
2017 (2-4) 55 GF 66 GA
2018 (1-7) 41 GF 86 GA

Exhibit A - love it.

This is a great question and a nice break from "holdback" and "zone defense" posts. In my experience, (parent and coach) I would say that the top players in an age group do tend to be the top players in HS. I have seen many kids that were great in 8th grade, who I knew were great, now playing on Saturday's for top programs. However this is still a generalization. I have had a chance to watch the careers of a few D1 players and the common denominator for me was that they all worked very hard. They always seem to be the ones that practiced a lot and asked tons of questions. The kid who had his stick in his hand almost all the time. Size is an issue for some positions but there are AA players under 5'10". I think at the highest levels of play there are plenty of great athletes but that is not enough. I think some players are just "gamers" and know how to make plays. Some coaches refer to this as lax IQ. Even at the 2023 age group it is not always the biggest kid who is the best player. I think the players that love the game and work to improve on their own tend to be the ones who will be the top HS players. They are also some of the best players now.

Definitely a different team than Hawks 2023. We will see how it goes, but the trends are different than Diamondbacks 2022

2016 (4-2) 39 GF 26 GA
2017 (4-2) 57 GF 25 GA
2018 (7-0) 98 GF 39 GA

Hawks 2023 went primarily zone in 2018.

Exhibit B

Hawks have been all zone since 2016. Their top players have joined the team in the last two years. They don’t develop talent and the dad coaches play their kids too much. Luckily the FoGo is great, both lefty attacks and righty attack are excellent (no daddy ball all joined in the last two years) and the goalie is fantastic but his father is nuts. They will run away with HOCo again.
All facts

Problem was the zone defense. Defense was never good. Only played zone because they lacked talent and speed on D. Never picked up any good defender cause what talented defender would want to play zone D. If your club plays zone better go find a different team if you want to keep developing your talent.

The new goalie you guys picked up is also really good but unfortunately his dad is nuts as well. Hahaha!!! [/quote]

I wouldn't make the assumption about hoco that fast. New talent on other teams will give them a run for their money - particularly if they aren't developing the kids and sticking with that zone.

I think you can teach kids to play defense in a zone or in a man, but I'm sure everyone on here is smarter than I am. I do think more teams will go to zone defenses with the rule changes.

You're wrong and I am definitely smarter than you.

[/quote]



Why would a "good" goalie join the 2023 Hawks? The present one is GREAT (best in DMV) and will stay in the game as long as its competitive. Makes no sense, why not go to a team where you can compete for a starting position, or at least playing time?

If you are referring to NCAA rule changes what does that have to do with youth? Youth leagues/tournaments aren't going to have the resources to manage a shot clock. And they shouldn't. Officiating is bad enough. Yes - these kids are going to learn zone defense/offense when they get to high school and college. But that's when their teams are practicing/playing 6 days a week. Youth teams running zone do so only for a competitive advantage. They know that their opponents aren't competent in running a zone offense because they only see a few times a year. When you only practice 3-4 hours a week you're not going to spend much time on zone offense. Unless your focus is on beating the team that runs zone vs. focusing on fundamentals. Youth game should be about teaching fundamentals and having fun. Ask any defender who played in college whether man or zone is more fun

Why would a "good" goalie join the 2023 Hawks? The present one is GREAT (best in DMV) and will stay in the game as long as its competitive. Makes no sense, why not go to a team where you can compete for a starting position, or at least playing time?[/quote]
Hawks goalie dads, there is a thing called Iphones that have a txt feature. You can both txt each other your feelings or continue to have your conversations here and talk about zone defenses. It is clear that this is interesting to two people who kids play goalie. Not so much to others. All youth goalies have good games and bad and playing on a strong team that holds the ball means less shots. None of that will matter in HS so we will see.

Why would a "good" goalie join the 2023 Hawks? The present one is GREAT (best in DMV) and will stay in the game as long as its competitive. Makes no sense, why not go to a team where you can compete for a starting position, or at least playing time?[/quote]

Someone’s nervous about losing their title of being “the best in the DMV”!!! Hahaha![/quote]

What does a defender in college have to do with youth. I think you will see the rule in Hoco play.

definitely not wrong

Thanks Perry Mason !

Ask any basketball player if they want to shoot threes or rebound... ask any football player if they want to pass or run the ball... ask any baseball player if they want to swing for a HR or bunt the man over... ask a golfer if he wants to swing away on the range or work on his short game... I hope you get my point. doesn't matter what is more fun.

Not only are you wrong, but you're stubborn too. And I bet your wife is a pig. Must be a hawks dad.

Why would a "good" goalie join the 2023 Hawks? The present one is GREAT (best in DMV) and will stay in the game as long as its competitive. Makes no sense, why not go to a team where you can compete for a starting position, or at least playing time?[/quote]
My nosy neighbors 13 year old son told me that the best 2023 goalie is the DC Dog's goalie

"doesn't matter what is more fun" I get your point. You value winning over a young players passion for the game and development.

You don't get it... Kids enjoy winning too. Coaches (some anyway) know what it takes. If you don't like the style of a coach, move on... don't bash the ones who play different styles.

Youth teams always play NCAA rules... 2019 will be no different in HoCo league... 80 second shot clock (20 second clear) will be kept by the referees.

I love winning. My kids do to. I didn't bash any coaches. I think most HS and college coaches would agree about my take on zone defense. Other than that I love the way Hawks 2023 play

you know that from those who run the league or just conjecture?

Can we get a separate zone vs man defense forum?

thank you for your enlightened, uninformed juvenile response

But the NCAA rule (still proposed) requires an on field clock visible to the players. HoCo (and most if not all of the tournaments) will not be able to comply with that rule.

Says the the man of great courage hiding behind an anonymous post.. I hope you have taught your son to respect women as your parents failed to do. Good luck at Hawks tryouts next year... signed proud Hawks RN Dad