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Posted By: TM@BOTC Holdbacks - 09/20/17 06:32 PM
Use this thread to discuss this heavily talked about topic. Remember to oblige by the forum rules and to not use ANY names.
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Holdbacks - 09/20/17 10:49 PM
This is hysterical.
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Holdbacks - 09/20/17 10:52 PM
I don't see an issue with holdbacks. If this will help a kid mature and have a better chance of playing in college while potentially saving more money, then that is great.
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Holdbacks - 09/20/17 11:44 PM
Can’t he hang with the big boys and play in his own age group?
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Holdbacks - 09/21/17 12:23 AM
Play up until 8th grade, as high as reasonable. You'll get better, and the libs can argue with the refs, coaches, spouses, weather, grass, and their own kids again, like in the good old days. Once you hit 8th, anyone but your own parents can mind their own business, or eat a bag of (censored).
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Holdbacks - 09/21/17 01:57 AM
Spoken like a true cheating Holdback parent... Loser. I'm sure you held them back because of the academic challenges the simpleton was having in school, or was it they socially couldn't handle it so they had to stay back, or was it your boy just couldn't keep up competitively on the field and play with his peers (Yeah, that sounds about right). Don't worry son you are GREAT just as long as you are playing with the little kids, and mommy and daddy will make sure of it. That's right that's real life. "If you can't compete just repeat." And Again, And Again. You'll get it son.
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Holdbacks - 09/21/17 02:25 AM
The influence of MIAA school parents and the large amount of their prefirst children in Private schools has given us grade base lacrosse in MD.

Posted By: Anonymous Re: Holdbacks - 09/21/17 02:37 AM
!.Everyone knows there is an advantage playing against children generally younger than you. Especially prior to HS

2, Everyone knows it is within the rules for HOCO and many tournaments.

3. The big question is about letting these select children get an advantage in youth lacrosse others dont with same birthday.

Posted By: Anonymous Re: Holdbacks - 09/21/17 02:47 AM
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Spoken like a true cheating Holdback parent... Loser. I'm sure you held them back because of the academic challenges the simpleton was having in school, or was it they socially couldn't handle it so they had to stay back, or was it your boy just couldn't keep up competitively on the field and play with his peers (Yeah, that sounds about right). Don't worry son you are GREAT just as long as you are playing with the little kids, and mommy and daddy will make sure of it. That's right that's real life. "If you can't compete just repeat." And Again, And Again. You'll get it son.


This was in response to someone suggesting playing up to a level high as possible during youth ball? Wow, your cheeks are so sore, you aren't even trying anymore. Your narrative is the argument!
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Holdbacks - 09/21/17 10:44 AM
Originally Posted by Anonymous
The influence of MIAA school parents and the large amount of their prefirst children in Private schools has given us grade base lacrosse in MD.



Don't just blame it on the MIAA or IAAM - there is also the WCAC.
Here's a tree in the woods thought: If everyone else is holding back, is it really an advantage to hold back? Just wondering.
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Holdbacks - 09/21/17 11:00 AM
Everyone complains about safety when the holdbacks are big kids but no one worries about the late bloomer that is getting crushed by bigger kids his own age. The late bloomers should be forced to repeat for their own safety.
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Holdbacks - 09/21/17 01:00 PM
What's the disadvantage of doing an extra year of primary education?
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Holdbacks - 09/21/17 01:45 PM
I think most people look at this the wrong way. Trying to control parents behavior or choices is difficult at best. Each situation is different. Some may choose a late start early for many reasons. It is hard to predict if a "pre-first" will end up being a talented lacrosse player prior to K. However holding back in 8th grade for an athletic advantage may seem crazy to some but very logical to others. Try explaining this logic to a public school family in the midwest for "lacrosse" which is not a professional sport and you may get a confused reaction. However I think that we should not focus this issue solely on the parents. Instead of asking what is the upside to holdbacks in top tournament and the HOCO league, we should ask the HOCO league officials what would be the downside of creating age based classifications and having a minimal form of enforcement? The answer may be that the top clubs will not play. This would hold true for current classes 2024-2022 but what about younger ages? We have to start somewhere. For those who claim it would never happen because it does not benefit the clubs look at the early recruiting issue. This was a boom for the clubs. They built business off being the only game in town and parents fears that if my son did not commit by 9th grade it was over. The clubs won't admit this but the new rule does not help them. Yet, it was still able to be changed. The holdback issue is similar in many ways. However the target should be USL and HOCO not the parents they are simply doing what they feel is best for their family.
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Holdbacks - 09/21/17 02:09 PM
Isn't club supposed to be more advanced than rec, for kids that want to hone in on a primary sport, and definitely play in HS? For $2,000/yr the expectation should be that the league is very challenging, correct? Because for $100 during Spring, they can just play rec for fun, correct? We've had age spreads for 30 years, so safety should not be an issue for two consecutive grades playing together. Are we sure that people aren't signing up for club, mistaking it for a community service, like rec, because, for example, friends and buddies are doing it? For $2,000/yr, plus travel, the league better darn sure emulate what to expect for the foreseeable future. I'm not paying that kind of money for my kid to have a false expectation that he is a superstar. I think kids under the "holdback" argument should play up at age or even +1 depending on ability all day long until HS, but honestly, if my kid thinks he's one of the best kids out there, because it's only kids exactly his age, he's not getting better, and he's not pushing his limits. Does anyone really want their kid to be the best 10 year old anything, except maybe best brother or sister to his siblings!? I say play up until HS, but I also want my kid to be pushed a bit, so yeah, it's a tough argument at the youth level.
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Holdbacks - 09/21/17 02:20 PM
Holdbacks, also see Crabs Lacrosse / Baltimore Lacrosse Club thread (disambiguation)
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Holdbacks - 09/21/17 02:25 PM
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Spoken like a true cheating Holdback parent... Loser. I'm sure you held them back because of the academic challenges the simpleton was having in school, or was it they socially couldn't handle it so they had to stay back, or was it your boy just couldn't keep up competitively on the field and play with his peers (Yeah, that sounds about right). Don't worry son you are GREAT just as long as you are playing with the little kids, and mommy and daddy will make sure of it. That's right that's real life. "If you can't compete just repeat." And Again, And Again. You'll get it son.


I swear, I have seen this exact text in multiple forums. Did you create a special clipboard item for it?
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Holdbacks - 09/21/17 02:51 PM
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Spoken like a true cheating Holdback parent... Loser. I'm sure you held them back because of the academic challenges the simpleton was having in school, or was it they socially couldn't handle it so they had to stay back, or was it your boy just couldn't keep up competitively on the field and play with his peers (Yeah, that sounds about right). Don't worry son you are GREAT just as long as you are playing with the little kids, and mommy and daddy will make sure of it. That's right that's real life. "If you can't compete just repeat." And Again, And Again. You'll get it son.


I swear, I have seen this exact text in multiple forums. Did you create a special clipboard item for it?



LOL!
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Holdbacks - 09/21/17 06:36 PM
Holding kids back works in athletics and academics.
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Holdbacks - 09/21/17 06:46 PM
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Holding kids back works in athletics and academics.



Private schools have perfected holding kids back or doing a prefirst. There is no longer any stigma for doing this. Years ago anyone held back was looked on as lacking in something.

And along with hardly anything considered wrong now a days except being a white male. Holding back in public isnt looked down on either.

So you have no reason not to hold your child back?? There is no question that there is an advantage.
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Holdbacks - 09/21/17 06:55 PM
But they have no true friends,
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Holdbacks - 09/21/17 08:09 PM
you idiot....you obviously have no friends! Your son must hate you because you are suck a loser and can't understand why parents make a decision that will benefit their
child throughout their whole life. If you had done this for your child maybe he won't need to work at the 7-11 like you.
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Holdbacks - 09/22/17 12:30 AM
Hey - if your kid can't compete on the field - why not hold em back. It's the Baltimore way.
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Holdbacks - 09/22/17 01:04 AM
Originally Posted by Anonymous
you idiot....you obviously have no friends! Your son must hate you because you are suck a loser and can't understand why parents make a decision that will benefit their
child throughout their whole life. If you had done this for your child maybe he won't need to work at the 7-11 like you.

Originally Posted by Anonymous
you idiot....you obviously have no friends! Your son must hate you because you are suck a loser and can't understand why parents make a decision that will benefit their
child throughout their whole life. If you had done this for your child maybe he won't need to work at the 7-11 like you.

My kid in top 20 D1 school, your kid is a 16 year old freak with no friends loser
,
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Holdbacks - 09/22/17 01:23 AM
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Hey - if your kid can't compete on the field - why not hold em back. It's the Baltimore way.


Not just Baltimore ...The Private Schools in DC area are loaded with holdbacks
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Holdbacks - 09/22/17 02:01 AM
This is a tough one, it does make a lot of sense for some. Kids do grow late and opportunity may pass them by. My son is on grade (no pre-first) and was a little underpowered in 7th-8th grades. He plays for one of the NLF teams and was de facto playing up. It was challenging at times but he hit the wall and the gym and added 12 pounds between 9th and 10th and about 10 mph on both hands. We thought about it, but he was very competitive in the classroom and it made no sense at the time. I cannot judge because every case is different, it is certainly easier when cost is no object. The thing that does suck is when your kid who is playing a lot has a mediocre repeater drops down and take playing time from him.
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Holdbacks - 09/22/17 09:45 AM
With the end of early recruiting the dash to reclass is going to fade. Not to mention that youth lacrosse will eventually go enitirely age based despite what the holdback crowd thinks. The college coaches all know who the older kids are anyway - if your kid can handle himself playing against them even better.
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Holdbacks - 09/22/17 11:16 AM
a top 20 D 1 school you must be so proud.....if you're not in a top 10 D1 school you might as well be playing college club lacrosse. All my sons played on top 4 teams and they were all pre- first.
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Holdbacks - 09/22/17 12:13 PM
what a tool bragging about a top D20 program.....you need to get a life!
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Holdbacks - 09/22/17 12:21 PM
Originally Posted by Anonymous
a top 20 D 1 school you must be so proud.....if you're not in a top 10 D1 school you might as well be playing college club lacrosse. All my sons played on top 4 teams and they were all pre- first.

So all your sons are cheaters that's great,
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Holdbacks - 09/22/17 12:43 PM
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
a top 20 D 1 school you must be so proud.....if you're not in a top 10 D1 school you might as well be playing college club lacrosse. All my sons played on top 4 teams and they were all pre- first.

So all your sons are cheaters that's great,

Funny thing about hold back parents they all think there nothing wrong with it. But in all my years standing on side lines watching lax, i never heard a hold back parent say my kid is a year older or he repeated 8th grade. They all try to act like the kid is great an on age.
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Holdbacks - 09/22/17 12:44 PM
The 20th ranked team in the nation this year plays at a significantly higher level than any club team
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Holdbacks - 09/22/17 01:55 PM
Your kid is playing lacrosse at Dartmouth - couldn't make the UNC team - what a fail. LOL
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Holdbacks - 09/22/17 02:30 PM
keep telling yourself that the 20th ranked D1 school is better then a good club lacrosse team....face it your kid was not an elite high school player. It's probably why you constantly rant about holdbacks.
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Holdbacks - 09/22/17 02:56 PM
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
a top 20 D 1 school you must be so proud.....if you're not in a top 10 D1 school you might as well be playing college club lacrosse. All my sons played on top 4 teams and they were all pre- first.

So all your sons are cheaters that's great,

Funny thing about hold back parents they all think there nothing wrong with it. But in all my years standing on side lines watching lax, i never heard a hold back parent say my kid is a year older or he repeated 8th grade. They all try to act like the kid is great an on age.


Why do you think there was such an uproar when UA posted birth dates for the rosters? All the Baltimore and D.C. Kids were exposed.
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Holdbacks - 09/22/17 03:03 PM
Originally Posted by Anonymous
This is a tough one, it does make a lot of sense for some. Kids do grow late and opportunity may pass them by. My son is on grade (no pre-first) and was a little underpowered in 7th-8th grades. He plays for one of the NLF teams and was de facto playing up. It was challenging at times but he hit the wall and the gym and added 12 pounds between 9th and 10th and about 10 mph on both hands. We thought about it, but he was very competitive in the classroom and it made no sense at the time. I cannot judge because every case is different, it is certainly easier when cost is no object. The thing that does suck is when your kid who is playing a lot has a mediocre repeater drops down and take playing time from him.


Holding back works, why do you think so many college coaches redshirt and / or send their recruits to do a PG year? It's more ridiculous at the younger ages but as you get older the impact diminishes, those who complain (me sometimes) aren't "whining" we're just pointing out the indisputable advantage the older kids have and if the holdback parents showed even a little bit of humility it would make the holdback situation somewhat tolerable. Case in point is the FCA parent who constantly says his kids "played up" with the 2019s when they are all born in 2001 anyway.
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Holdbacks - 09/22/17 03:17 PM
Agreed. What's the point of playing for any school in D1 outside the top10. The same schools basically win every year. If your kid want's the chance to actually win a championship, and you can get over the point of being an idiot parent who only cares about bragging about your kid, let them go D2, a top school and they can actually win something they will have the rest of their lives. A championship as well as a great education. But i'm assuming you are also likely that dad at every tournament who carries around a stick for absolutely no reason. There are always a few.



Originally Posted by Anonymous
a top 20 D 1 school you must be so proud.....if you're not in a top 10 D1 school you might as well be playing college club lacrosse. All my sons played on top 4 teams and they were all pre- first.

Posted By: Anonymous Re: Holdbacks - 09/22/17 03:23 PM
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
This is a tough one, it does make a lot of sense for some. Kids do grow late and opportunity may pass them by. My son is on grade (no pre-first) and was a little underpowered in 7th-8th grades. He plays for one of the NLF teams and was de facto playing up. It was challenging at times but he hit the wall and the gym and added 12 pounds between 9th and 10th and about 10 mph on both hands. We thought about it, but he was very competitive in the classroom and it made no sense at the time. I cannot judge because every case is different, it is certainly easier when cost is no object. The thing that does suck is when your kid who is playing a lot has a mediocre repeater drops down and take playing time from him.


Holding back works, why do you think so many college coaches redshirt and / or send their recruits to do a PG year? It's more ridiculous at the younger ages but as you get older the impact diminishes, those who complain (me sometimes) aren't "whining" we're just pointing out the indisputable advantage the older kids have and if the holdback parents showed even a little bit of humility it would make the holdback situation somewhat tolerable. Case in point is the FCA parent who constantly says his kids "played up" with the 2019s when they are all born in 2001 anyway.


Actually you are wrong about impact. The advantage of age has a greater impact as the players get older. It may appear to have a larger impact in 7th and 8th grade bc of obvious size differences, but the teams themselves get older in HS (and better) bc the younger kids don't make it and quit/get cut.
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Holdbacks - 09/22/17 03:40 PM
Originally Posted by Anonymous
keep telling yourself that the 20th ranked D1 school is better then a good club lacrosse team....face it your kid was not an elite high school player. It's probably why you constantly rant about holdbacks.


Well, the rankings change week to week throughout the season, but yes, any top 20 Varsity D1 College lacrosse team would absolutely annihilate any college club team in existence. What are we even talking about? Some of the teams that fall into that category week to week from last year are Duke, Army, Loyola, it's just a stupid argument.
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Holdbacks - 09/22/17 03:51 PM
This is literally an argument about nothing as related to HS or College. Youth, fine, chatter on all day long, both sides have a case. HS into College, irrelevant. The major HS sports associations have age caps to account for every reasonable circumstance imaginable, and it is never going to go "down". It's basically 19 before Senior year to be eligible. They aren't going to lower it, because a kid could have to repeat a grade for many reasons - could be very stupid, could have a catastrophic accident, could miss a year of school for who cares what reason, could be super lazy, could have parents that transfer around and move a lot, could just like to have another year. It's not changing. NCAA has age caps for Varsity sports and time restrictions between HS and College to be eligible, with some understandable exemptions, such as major injury, military service, charitable service, and a few similar. Never changing the cap in the "down" direction. So, whine, complain, argue all you want, these things have been thought through upside down and backwards. Youth, argue all you want about age versus grade, because there are cases on both sides.
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Holdbacks - 09/22/17 03:52 PM
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
keep telling yourself that the 20th ranked D1 school is better then a good club lacrosse team....face it your kid was not an elite high school player. It's probably why you constantly rant about holdbacks.


Well, the rankings change week to week throughout the season, but yes, any top 20 Varsity D1 College lacrosse team would absolutely annihilate any college club team in existence. What are we even talking about? Some of the teams that fall into that category week to week from last year are Duke, Army, Loyola, it's just a stupid argument.

I Rant about holdbacks because it wrong simple has that. FYI, my guy all american this year on age.
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Holdbacks - 09/22/17 03:59 PM
So every age group and club post eventually leads to the holdback reclass issue. Admin starts a new thread for the holdback issue and it leads to debating if a club team is as good as Duke or Army??? Strange days ahead
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Holdbacks - 09/22/17 04:06 PM
Just go to Birth Year instead of Grade year already...
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Holdbacks - 09/22/17 04:39 PM
Bingo
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Holdbacks - 09/22/17 05:19 PM
[quote=Anonymous]Agreed. What's the point of playing for any school in D1 outside the top10. The same schools basically win every year. If your kid want's the chance to actually win a championship, and you can get over the point of being an idiot parent who only cares about bragging about your kid, let them go D2, a top school and they can actually win something they will have the rest of their lives. A championship as well as a great education. But i'm assuming you are also likely that dad at every tournament who carries around a stick for absolutely no reason. There are always a few.


I do not care about your other points but I like to carry around my sons back up stick. I do not like to sit down in a beach chair and drag it from field to field. I never played lacrosse so I am not reliving anything. Just wanted to stick up for the guys who like walking sticks at tournaments.
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Holdbacks - 09/22/17 05:20 PM
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
keep telling yourself that the 20th ranked D1 school is better then a good club lacrosse team....face it your kid was not an elite high school player. It's probably why you constantly rant about holdbacks.


Well, the rankings change week to week throughout the season, but yes, any top 20 Varsity D1 College lacrosse team would absolutely annihilate any college club team in existence. What are we even talking about? Some of the teams that fall into that category week to week from last year are Duke, Army, Loyola, it's just a stupid argument.

I Rant about holdbacks because it wrong simple has that. FYI, my guy all american this year on age.


You rant about bs, because your kid plays for a youth or hs b level club team, you are bored, you are an idiot, and you are pretty sure he won't even attain hs success eventually. If your kid was in college, you wouldn't even be on here, nor would the word holdback occupy one second in your mind on any given day.
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Holdbacks - 09/22/17 06:12 PM
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
[quote=Anonymous]keep telling yourself that the 20th ranked D1 school is better then a good club lacrosse team....face it your kid was not an elite high school player. It's probably why you constantly rant about holdbacks.


Well, the rankings change week to week throughout the season, but yes, any top 20 Varsity D1 College lacrosse team would absolutely annihilate any college club team in existence. What are we even talking about? Some of the teams that fall into that category week to week from last year are Duke, Army, Loyola, it's just a stupid argument.

I Rant about holdbacks because it wrong simple has that. FYI, my guy all american this year on age.


You rant about bs, because your kid plays for a youth or hs b level club team, you are bored, you are an idiot, and you are pretty sure he won't even attain hs success eventually. If your kid was in college, you wouldn't even be on here, nor would the word holdback occupy one second in your mind on any given day. [/quot
Clearly the true hurts, you most likely have kids that are real social freaks.
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Holdbacks - 09/22/17 06:14 PM
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
a top 20 D 1 school you must be so proud.....if you're not in a top 10 D1 school you might as well be playing college club lacrosse. All my sons played on top 4 teams and they were all pre- first.

So all your sons are cheaters that's great,

Funny thing about hold back parents they all think there nothing wrong with it. But in all my years standing on side lines watching lax, i never heard a hold back parent say my kid is a year older or he repeated 8th grade. They all try to act like the kid is great an on age.


This is so True and GREAT statement.
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Holdbacks - 09/22/17 06:31 PM
Well our team/club voted to just play in age based tournaments this year. No more Hogan etc. We will likely need to travel a bit farther away from the holdback hotbed, but happy to do it. All you holdback teams can continue your foolish arms race to see how many older kids you can get and win the big title. Good luck. And for the holdback enthusiast trolls, don't you see all the parents of the on-age kids on your team laughing behind your backs? It really is sadly pathetic and feel bad for your child. Those on-age kids on the top teams are the real deal, and we all know it.
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Holdbacks - 09/22/17 07:22 PM
whats the common thing about the hold backs? They all go to private schools!

What schools are considered the best academically ..... private schools!

Who's laughing now? The private school kid who your son will be working for someday.
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Holdbacks - 09/22/17 07:44 PM
How many 2017 public school grads in Maryland went to D1 college programs last year? How many private?
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Holdbacks - 09/22/17 08:26 PM
Originally Posted by Anonymous
whats the common thing about the hold backs? They all go to private schools!

What schools are considered the best academically ..... private schools!

Who's laughing now? The private school kid who your son will be working for someday.


Considered by who to be the best academically? The same parents who pay for it? Not based in fact at all in this area unless your data point for comparison is Baltimore city schools in which case would agree but several of the surrounding Counties offer equal and at times a better education as evidenced in test scores when comparing like students, they offer more in terms of advanced courses and AP courses due to economies of scale. Both have tangible and intangible other positive and negative factors about them but academics are not superior at the Baltimore private schools. Sports yes as many of the schools offer athletes scholarships and they fill the teams with known elite athletes in the area. Will not go into it in depth here as this topic has been beaten to death on these forums but you really should check your facts prior to posting broad generalizations. You pay for some great things as private schools including smaller class sizes but it really is more about if you feel that your child is best served by a private school that is great but respect that others in outlying counties choose public schools for specific reasons, including the academics, even if offered private school scholarships or money is not an issue.
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Holdbacks - 09/22/17 08:30 PM
Originally Posted by Anonymous
whats the common thing about the hold backs? They all go to private schools!

What schools are considered the best academically ..... private schools!

Who's laughing now? The private school kid who your son will be working for someday.


What a joke of a post. I have a feeling your kid is in a private school for the wrong reasons. The complaining about hold backs in HS/College is pointless. Wankers like you keep it going

Sincerely,

Parent of 2 private school kids who didn't get held back


Posted By: Anonymous Re: Holdbacks - 09/22/17 10:16 PM
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
whats the common thing about the hold backs? They all go to private schools!

What schools are considered the best academically ..... private schools!

Who's laughing now? The private school kid who your son will be working for someday.


Considered by who to be the best academically? The same parents who pay for it? Not based in fact at all in this area unless your data point for comparison is Baltimore city schools in which case would agree but several of the surrounding Counties offer equal and at times a better education as evidenced in test scores when comparing like students, they offer more in terms of advanced courses and AP courses due to economies of scale. Both have tangible and intangible other positive and negative factors about them but academics are not superior at the Baltimore private schools. Sports yes as many of the schools offer athletes scholarships and they fill the teams with known elite athletes in the area. Will not go into it in depth here as this topic has been beaten to death on these forums but you really should check your facts prior to posting broad generalizations. You pay for some great things as private schools including smaller class sizes but it really is more about if you feel that your child is best served by a private school that is great but respect that others in outlying counties choose public schools for specific reasons, including the academics, even if offered private school scholarships or money is not an issue.


Please keep in mind that many kids from what you call surrounding counties and outlying counties go to private schools, most of which are in Baltimore County, a few in Howard and Harford and AA Counties. Those parents have a choice and went for private for whatever reason served their child best. The majority of the kids in private are not receiving scholarships.
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Holdbacks - 09/23/17 03:03 AM
If you send your kid to a public school and you are complaining about hold backs.....look in the mirror ! Its your fault.
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Holdbacks - 10/09/17 01:12 PM
Originally Posted by Anonymous
If you send your kid to a public school and you are complaining about hold backs.....look in the mirror ! Its your fault.


Whats that mean?? We should be sending our on age kid to private school to help out with stats?
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Holdbacks - 10/09/17 01:20 PM
two year spreads was because not enough kids were playing back in the stone age...not a problem anymore...play on age...bunch of cheaters who play down
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Holdbacks - 10/09/17 02:35 PM
This should break it down for you. Long live the Holdback

Relative age effect - Wikipedia
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Relative_age_effect
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Holdbacks - 10/09/17 03:26 PM
Originally Posted by Anonymous
This should break it down for you. Long live the Holdback

Relative age effect - Wikipedia
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Relative_age_effect



That private school tuition being utilized here a I see; pulling out Wikipedia as a reference tool. Money well spent Dad!!
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Holdbacks - 10/09/17 08:56 PM
Originally Posted by Anonymous
This should break it down for you. Long live the Holdback

Relative age effect - Wikipedia
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Relative_age_effect



This means what everyone keeps saying, At youth sports there is an advantage to being the oldest ..That is why all the holdback apologists want it to be by grade. Then their select holdback children will have even more of an advantage over others.than the oldest on age child does .

Yep..This is a good reason to let select children have an advantage. Forget what Youth sports stands for. Lets carve out a select few and see how they do.
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Holdbacks - 10/10/17 11:46 PM
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
[quote=Anonymous]keep telling yourself that the 20th ranked D1 school is better then a good club lacrosse team....face it your kid was not an elite high school player. It's probably why you constantly rant about holdbacks.


Well, the rankings change week to week throughout the season, but yes, any top 20 Varsity D1 College lacrosse team would absolutely annihilate any college club team in existence. What are we even talking about? Some of the teams that fall into that category week to week from last year are Duke, Army, Loyola, it's just a stupid argument.

I Rant about holdbacks because it wrong simple has that. FYI, my guy all american this year on age.


You rant about bs, because your kid plays for a youth or hs b level club team, you are bored, you are an idiot, and you are pretty sure he won't even attain hs success eventually. If your kid was in college, you wouldn't even be on here, nor would the word holdback occupy one second in your mind on any given day. [/quot
Clearly the true hurts, you most likely have kids that are real social freaks.

Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
[quote=Anonymous]keep telling yourself that the 20th ranked D1 school is better then a good club lacrosse team....face it your kid was not an elite high school player. It's probably why you constantly rant about holdbacks.


Well, the rankings change week to week throughout the season, but yes, any top 20 Varsity D1 College lacrosse team would absolutely annihilate any college club team in existence. What are we even talking about? Some of the teams that fall into that category week to week from last year are Duke, Army, Loyola, it's just a stupid argument.

I Rant about holdbacks because it wrong simple has that. FYI, my guy all american this year on age.


You rant about bs, because your kid plays for a youth or hs b level club team, you are bored, you are an idiot, and you are pretty sure he won't even attain hs success eventually. If your kid was in college, you wouldn't even be on here, nor would the word holdback occupy one second in your mind on any given day. [/quot
Clearly the true hurts, you most likely have kids that are real social freaks.


It’s this type of social bullying philistine attitude that permeates lacrosse culture. Social freaks? Do you mean “nerds” smart kind kids?
Mark zuckerberg, steve jobs, bill gates, elon musk? Those social freaks? Lacrosse is a game NOT life
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Holdbacks - 10/22/17 12:32 AM
Honestly the choice to hold back a child for acedemic or athletic reasons is up to the kid and his parents if you think that this is horrible and unfair then holdback your kid. When your kid is grown up and you are old this 5 year span in his life won't matter that much. At the end of the day arguing over trivial matters likes this on a forum is a waste of your time.
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Holdbacks - 10/22/17 12:57 PM
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Honestly the choice to hold back a child for acedemic or athletic reasons is up to the kid and his parents if you think that this is horrible and unfair then holdback your kid. When your kid is grown up and you are old this 5 year span in his life won't matter that much. At the end of the day arguing over trivial matters likes this on a forum is a waste of your time.



Straw-man argument like most holdback apologists reasons.

No one cares what you do with your child, Hold him/her back 5 times. Who cares...

But why does that give you a special right to play against younger children in YOUTH sports that are BORN on same day as your holdback/prefirst child. Letting select kids play down goes against all that youth sports stand for. If your child gets a special advantage, all players should get the same advantage in Youth sports. Pretty simple concept except to you apologists.

And we are not talking about HS or even Middle school sports which has always gone by grade.
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Holdbacks - 11/01/17 10:04 AM
If you want to know how much the prefirsts/holdbacks/reclassed effect Maryland teams...

All you need to know is look at the World Series of Youth Lacrosse teams. Out of 37 teams listed in Inside Lacrosse of supposedly best U13 teams in country.... 3 are from Maryland. And all three are not considered anywhere near the top in MD. Maryland can only compete by older players playing younger players...Pretty Sad state for Youth Lacrosse in MD.
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Holdbacks - 11/03/17 08:09 PM
Originally Posted by Anonymous
If you want to know how much the prefirsts/holdbacks/reclassed effect Maryland teams...

All you need to know is look at the World Series of Youth Lacrosse teams. Out of 37 teams listed in Inside Lacrosse of supposedly best U13 teams in country.... 3 are from Maryland. And all three are not considered anywhere near the top in MD. Maryland can only compete by older players playing younger players...Pretty Sad state for Youth Lacrosse in MD.



It sure is....
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Holdbacks - 11/03/17 11:11 PM
MD may be the worst, but last year they changed the rules for WSYL after clubs try outs and made finalized rosters.- but lets not pretend that NJ,NY,PA,VA,DC,NE,FL,TX don't all have holdbacks. This is a fact. Teams hold separate tryouts and have completely different teams that they send to this 1 tournament. Every other tournament in the country allows the age differential . Not condoning it but its fact, what is not factual is MD can't compete without holdbacks. API made it to the final 4 with a weak team and beat the champion in earlier round. Maybe you should come down and watch some MD fall ball and see the high level of lacrosse from Elite, A,B and Rec teams. MD REC teams can compete against all 37 teams at WSYL. Just because they choose not to participate in 1 tournament doesn't mean they can't compete. Lacrosse in MD is stronger than ever at every level.
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Holdbacks - 11/04/17 02:10 AM
Api took on the md elite with one kid that was a pre K and was a face off kid who is very good but wasn’t the starter . Api last year had no holdbacks and competed with the best . They finished 3rd in the World Series of Lacrosse and 9th before roughriders 2022 National championship . So they did pretty well but this year they have change they have holdbacks now they aren’t as good . Api is not a elite team anymore. They lost a lot of good players .
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Holdbacks - 11/04/17 04:50 AM
For holdbacks...Exhibit A, B, and C:

2022 Annapolis Hawks
2022 Richmond "Hawks"
2022 DC Express A

🙄
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Holdbacks - 11/05/17 01:22 AM
If you are going to play elite you have to have Holdbacks now but I’m sorry my belief is that is cheating before high school .
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Holdbacks - 11/05/17 02:10 AM
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Api took on the md elite with one kid that was a pre K and was a face off kid who is very good but wasn’t the starter . Api last year had no holdbacks and competed with the best . They finished 3rd in the World Series of Lacrosse and 9th before roughriders 2022 National championship . So they did pretty well but this year they have change they have holdbacks now they aren’t as good . Api is not a elite team anymore. They lost a lot of good players .


API has one of the oldest teams out there mostly kids born sept oct 03 birthday days let's not say they don't have have backs. Elite in 3 grade not anymore.
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Holdbacks - 11/05/17 02:18 AM
The fact that there is a “holdback” thread in the Maryland forum I’d freaking priceless! Go to LI and most of your top kids would be playing a year above! You guys kill me!
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Holdbacks - 11/05/17 02:28 AM
Originally Posted by Anonymous
MD may be the worst, but last year they changed the rules for WSYL after clubs try outs and made finalized rosters.- but lets not pretend that NJ,NY,PA,VA,DC,NE,FL,TX don't all have holdbacks. This is a fact. Teams hold separate tryouts and have completely different teams that they send to this 1 tournament. Every other tournament in the country allows the age differential . Not condoning it but its fact, what is not factual is MD can't compete without holdbacks. API made it to the final 4 with a weak team and beat the champion in earlier round. Maybe you should come down and watch some MD fall ball and see the high level of lacrosse from Elite, A,B and Rec teams. MD REC teams can compete against all 37 teams at WSYL. Just because they choose not to participate in 1 tournament doesn't mean they can't compete. Lacrosse in MD is stronger than ever at every level.


First of all, you’re an idiot. Yes, LI/NJ teams have holdbacks. 1 or 2 per team. WSYL rosters must include kids that have played all season.. new rule this year. A team can’t add kids or suntracy their for the tournament. Please don’t try to hide that Md teams are not nunning out kids that are older. It’s an accepted fact. Ex: 2023 Crabs has no less than 14 kids that were 13+ last season. If Maryland teams want to compete, the door is open. They just need to run their 2924 teams in the tourney, and let’s be realistic, it would be s massacre
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Holdbacks - 11/05/17 08:08 AM
My question why holdback the kids why not do a post grad year after high school before college . The kid will know more of what they want and you still get a older kid going into college with some college credits ...
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Holdbacks - 06/05/18 04:15 PM
Hmm Looks like recruiting and Holdback rules being called into question at MIAA schools for football. Some MIAA lacrosse schools should hurry up and cover their tracks before the St.Frances and Biff Poggi issues call into question MIAA lacrosse recruiting and hold back rules......
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Holdbacks - 06/05/18 06:37 PM
Originally Posted by Anonymous
My question why holdback the kids why not do a post grad year after high school before college . The kid will know more of what they want and you still get a older kid going into college with some college credits ...


Easy answer is...You get zero advantage paying at your age during their youth or HS and then doing a PG. Do a prefirst or reclass and enjoy an advantage in youth and HS

I dont think I have met many coaches that have children in MIAA schools that werent held back. They know the drill. Hard to compete for a starting position when you are younger than the other boys
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Holdbacks - 06/05/18 06:53 PM
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Hmm Looks like recruiting and Holdback rules being called into question at MIAA schools for football. Some MIAA lacrosse schools should hurry up and cover their tracks before the St.Frances and Biff Poggi issues call into question MIAA lacrosse recruiting and hold back rules......


That is crazy stuff there. The St Frances Football team has around 40 scholarships paid in full by one guy, Biff Poggi. They are destroying any and all MIAA football teams including McDonogh and Biffs old team Gilman.

. Obviously St Frances has less academics standards than Gilman did and can recruit from a bigger pool, but Gilman had some dominate teams years ago with Biff and no one quit playing Gilman.

The recruiting and holdbacks will be interesting if any revisions come from this. I doubt anything will be done as lacrosse will be effected in some way. Best approach is the way MIAA is handling it now, its a safety issue.
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Holdbacks - 06/06/18 01:28 AM
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
MD may be the worst, but last year they changed the rules for WSYL after clubs try outs and made finalized rosters.- but lets not pretend that NJ,NY,PA,VA,DC,NE,FL,TX don't all have holdbacks. This is a fact. Teams hold separate tryouts and have completely different teams that they send to this 1 tournament. Every other tournament in the country allows the age differential . Not condoning it but its fact, what is not factual is MD can't compete without holdbacks. API made it to the final 4 with a weak team and beat the champion in earlier round. Maybe you should come down and watch some MD fall ball and see the high level of lacrosse from Elite, A,B and Rec teams. MD REC teams can compete against all 37 teams at WSYL. Just because they choose not to participate in 1 tournament doesn't mean they can't compete. Lacrosse in MD is stronger than ever at every level.


First of all, you’re an stunad. Yes, LI/NJ teams have holdbacks. 1 or 2 per team. WSYL rosters must include kids that have played all season.. new rule this year. A team can’t add kids or suntracy their for the tournament. Please don’t try to hide that Md teams are not nunning out kids that are older. It’s an accepted fact. Ex: 2023 Crabs has no less than 14 kids that were 13+ last season. If Maryland teams want to compete, the door is open. They just need to run their 2924 teams in the tourney, and let’s be realistic, it would be s massacre



who is the stunad? did you proof read your lame reply before you hit the send button- kinda admitting other states have them just not as many-not sure who really believes that- you also state the roster change for this year- not previous years which is what most of this topic is about-why do you think anyone is hiding anything - the rules for MD clubs allows for it and until that changes you will have to deal with it-deal with it by posting anonymous rants on this site-because MD holdback teams whip other states holdback teams-Md teams certainly do not need to travel any where out of the state to play anyone-they all come here to play us! Especially 1 tournament that changes the rules every single year! Don't worry , we will see and most likely hear your crying on the sidelines this year at one of the great MD tournaments-you and your team with 1 or 2 holdbacks- the door is always wide open -especially for the cheater who calls out the cheater who is beating him at the game!
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Holdbacks - 06/06/18 01:32 AM
Originally Posted by Anonymous
For holdbacks...Exhibit A, B, and C:

2022 Annapolis Hawks
2022 Richmond "Hawks"
2022 DC Express A

🙄



classic hater!
Every single team in the elite division and AA team in the country has holdbacks- please post your kids team right under the 3 you know nothing about -
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Holdbacks - 06/06/18 12:11 PM
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
For holdbacks...Exhibit A, B, and C:

2022 Annapolis Hawks
2022 Richmond "Hawks"
2022 DC Express A

🙄



classic hater!
Every single team in the elite division and AA team in the country has holdbacks- please post your kids team right under the 3 you know nothing about -


Not sure about every team. 91 Bandits? I'm not sure they have anyone over 13 on their team. Not sure they could be the '22 Annapolis Hawks who are all two years older but they can beat any '23 MD team who are a year older.
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Holdbacks - 06/06/18 11:51 PM
They lost to Crabs 2023 last year
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Holdbacks - 06/07/18 12:49 AM
Originally Posted by Anonymous
They lost to Crabs 2023 last year


They would also have trouble with the 23 Hawks right now. They are greatly improved over last year.
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