It's the start of the Fall 2016/Spring 2017 season. Use this thread for your posts regarding this age group

Reposting from Madlax forum


Unregistered



Top NOVA 2020 teams and reasons to go -
Blackwolf -
Pro: commit to D1 programs consistently; best practices in the area, including opportunity to practice against HS D1-committed players

Con: Not sure about which tournaments they attend; not many games; unsure who is on roster

Madlax -

Pro: go to every tournament that they should; get lots of game experience if Capital/National; open roster process for selection

Con: Potential bait and switch on new structure of not naming to specific teams; coaching and practice levels inconsistent

VLC -

Pro: Affiliated with Crabs so may get boost from NLF exposure

Con: Inconsistent coaching; lack of game/tournament play; not enough practice time

Good analysis on all clubs. I would add a con for BW in location at St. John's if this is for the nova crowd....Trig is always very engaged though, but maybe not for multi sport athletes. I would also add a con for madlax in $ spent but you do get more for those dollars. The con on VLC's inconsistent coaching is a stinger but true....3 head coaches for 2020's last year and the 2019's lost their head coach at the start of the summer as well. 2020's will be set with DiCamillio if he in fact stays with them...big IF because he and Langley are the heart and soul of that club. Murky picture for sure but those are the only legit choices in nova for now if you even call BW a nova club anymore.

Bringing this up.
Crush are better than the Turtles.
Let the games begin

I need to see a 6 goal W over Looney's before I can be convinced of that. I think it's more like 10-8 Crush as Fogo will limit their fast breaks and overall possessions

Giving too much credit to looneys. Not consistent.

Are DiCo or Langley going somewhere?

Haven't heard that rumor. DiCo just signed on to coach VLC 2020 since the '17s are done and graduating. I suspect Langley will stay put as well.

Those 2 are great coaches and are the heart and soul of the club....they aren't going anywhere. Langley is 2018 and Dico is 2020. 2019 lost their coach early in the summer but have a legit head coach I think.

No. That was just a stupid rumor some Madlax dad started.

Hawks kid just committed to Maryland. Talented player, congrats to him

Yes he is. All 3 2020 kids from Maryland who committed to UMD are really good.

Ok Hawks dads.. Mom... whatever

MD 2020s:

MARYLAND TERRAPINS
Jack Koras, M, Loyola Blakefield (Md.) / FCA Maryland
Jackson Marshall, G, Calvert Hall (Md.) / FCA Maryland
Alexander Wicks, M, St. Mary’s (Md.) / Annapolis Hawks

MICHIGAN WOLVERINES
Rory Jones, A, Calvert Hall (Md.) / FCA Maryland

NORTH CAROLINA TAR HEELS
Daniel Kelly, A, Calvert Hall (Md.) / FCA Maryland
Gable Braun, F/O, McDonogh (Md.) / Looney’s
Cole Herbert, M, Calvert Hall (Md.) / Baltimore Crabs
Jack Witherspoon, D, Gilman (Md.) / Baltimore Crabs
Blake Gable, D, Boys’ Latin (Md.) / Looney’s
Michael Lizzio, M, St. Andrew’s (Fla.) / Looney’s
Max Cooney, D, Georgetown Prep (Md.) / Baltimore Crabs

If Calvert Hall doesn't bring home a couple MIAA'ships in the next couple years, Coach Kelly may be on the hot seat.

A lot more movement between the Baltimore teams then I would've thought (crabs, fca, looneys, and Hawks)

Interestingly enough the coaches son and rarely came off field. It paid off. Talented but not a standout and about the same talent level of many other local 2020 players.

Kids are always searching for something they think is better and parents are not teaching them loyalty to teams or team mates. Does not really matter as they are getting into high school - real talent will rise no matter what elite team they are on. Grass is not always greener. Good luck to all the 2020s!

Some of the programs are better at getting kids recruited. Why would a kid not want to go to a team that is better and they'll get more looks? People also do it to better position themselves for high school lacrosse.

What happens to some of these kids when two-three years from now other kids surpass them? There is some real talent committed in the 2020 class but just as many political moves so curious what the schools do in 3 years when these kids are no longer the best and they have already committed their full 2020 allotment? On and off field UMD and UNC competing who can grabs more youngsters. Poor kids.

Are any of UNC's commits not Holdbacks?

Shhh don't let the secret out.

Are any of UNC's commits not Holdbacks?
*******

Crabs Defender headed to GP is a May 2001 birthday. Holdback.

Most all of them!

I think mixed but regardless what an incredible opportunity at a top academic university. Business school ranked higher then ND, Colombia etc.. Congrats boys!

My 2019 son is April 7th of 2001. he is on the younger side but not the youngest for a 2019

Every player on the list is older. Not just UNC's. And people still think that holding kids back isn't working of these kids/parents?

Please don't compare UNC to ND and Columbia...for 20 years, some employees at the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill knowingly steered about 1,500 athletes toward no-show courses that never met and were not taught by any faculty members, and in which the only work required was a single research paper that received a high grade no matter the content.

Actually, the LI kids are grade appropriate, some even on the younger side for LI 2020. Talent speaks for itself- if it's there, no need to reclass. I suspect many of the holdbacks could have gotten committed if they stayed grade appropriate, but someone lacked faith in their abilities and steered them down a grade.

You nailed it. Post of the year!!

Hawks kid is on age

Damn Jealous parents....Not every kid on this list is a holdback....Idiots

Please don't insult the University of Nose Candy

Yup - I'm jealous of an imaginary offer with little or no money attached. Talk to you in 3 years and we will see where things stand.

I use to think 50% of the people on this forum were complete fkn Morons ..now I'm convinced it's closer to 80%. Every comment is from a bigger idiot then the previous one.. Yeah ...I'm talking about you..

With this post you seem to have proven you are the biggest but not the best moron.

I'm part of the 80% and have two kids playing D1 - one at an Ivy and 1 at a top 20. Both are on age. I win. Keep playing your silly little holdback/early recruiting game. It's ruing the sport. Age based is coming....

You saying his bday on UA Underclass website is wrong?

You sir are the def of a total d-Bag. Trolling this forum with two commits. Yeah... Loser

As the parent of a younger, on age kid, I wish your remark of "age based is coming" was true - but I don't see it. I firmly believe grade based will remain.

I'm with that guy. I call BS or loser. You claim to have and "Ivy and another top 20 commit" yet you don't like early recruiting. What the heck are you doing trolling on a Boys 2020. .. Oh yeah you were the guy with the Hag wife who yells "Boom". Yeah you win ... lololo

I have two other boys in elementary school and I would like to see this nonsense stop before they get to high school. I'm filthy rich and have a ton of free time on my hands. I enjoy messing with you assclowns.

The PA kids are all on age.

I wanna party with you, cowboy

Grade based is hear to stay. No one really wants to change it. They will say what people want to hear, but when it comes to voting in April, I guarantee you it will not pass.

So much of early verbals are more about politics, who is where when and who knows who and not necessarily about the best players. Not worth worrying about - there are plenty of just as talented kids out there as on this list. They just do not have former player dads or dad coaches with hooks all over and many are being pushed to fulfill their parents ego and get out there to be able to say they are committed. There will be a place for everyone who wants to play and many of these kids wont be playing at the school they have "committed" to.

It's not high school where this is really a problem, which is why it's so silly that we're grade based in youth (elem/middle school). High school is the great equalizer in that regard. If you're that good, you'll play varsity as a 9th grader no matter your age.

The problem is really middle school, particularly 8th grade where you have kids who have just been re-classed (after being held back as a pre-first and are therefore two years older than grade) that are 6-4 225lb driving themselves to games playing against on-age kids that haven't hit puberty yet.

It's not even that bad in elementary school as the kids haven't learned to play that physical yet... the spread in size is much greater when you have older-than-grade kids who have hit puberty playing against on-age kids that haven't.

It's only going to change when someone in that situation gets hurt and there's a giant lawsuit.

There will never be a lawsuit because USL encourages age groups where kids are as much as 2 years apart with their U13, U11, U9 brackets.

Not sure why there are so many people on this board that think having lacrosse be aged based LIKE EVERY OTHER YOUTH SPORT is a bad thing. The only explanation is that somehow their children are benefitting from this cooked system. USL encourages 2 year age brackets in order to accommodate areas where there are not enough kids to have it be grouped in twelve month segments. That is clearly not necessary in the DC/MD/VA area. There are plenty of kids to field complete on age teams.

As the above poster mentioned, the real problem is that club owners (Crabs) have used this convoluted system in order to gain and unfair advantage. 16 year olds on a 8th grade team is beyond ridiculous. It creates an unsafe environment and uneven playing field. It needs to end.

If USL really wants single year age groups, why don't their tournaments and championships have single year brackets? Everything is always shown in two year brackets. If they just once had single year brackets shown in any event, they would have some credibility. They just pay lip service to the single year brackets.

The people who think age based is a bad thing, are the parents of the hold backs. That simple.

Or any parent outside of LI or MD where there simply aren't enough lacrosse players to support teams or league participation based on one calendar year.. I don't know what you people keep referring to anyway but all Rec sports ((where all kids get introduced to different sports to see what they like best) combine ages or grades. U9, u11, u13 etc.. This includes football, soccer, baseball, basketball, lacrosse. One year you are the younger player and the next year you benefit from being older. Just one naive and simple minded statement after another.

Most of the moneyed private schoolers that think as long as it is best for them - that justifies it, versus the majority public schoolers that believe in doing the right thing and / or simply cannot afford to reclass. I have seen numerous "very good" on age players on elite teams reclass and they are top level studs as holdbacks! I have seen kids holdback that are still mediocre players. Most of the kids that commit at 8th and 9th graders are elite players, but I would guess 66% of them are holdbacks that would not be committing to the UNC, MD, JH and Dukes of the world if they were playing with their on age peers as 8th and 9th graders.

This is spot on. It is a clear advantage. People want to talk about the kids who are on age and being picked up early. But the fact is the number of holdbacks /relass/prefirst kids in the 2020,2019 and last year 2018 kids verbal list are one of these three things. They are not on age or younger for there age kids. Its like if 100 people jump off the roof and 3 people live would you say its a good idea to jump off that roof? Point being holdbacks/reclass kids are winning the early recruiting game. And when you talk about there being no money in lacrosse it makes this a even bigger deal. Because guess what if the early recruit gets in to UVA or Duke with a 3.5 to 3.8 GPA and he quits lacrosse guess what the school can not kick him out. So tell me again how cheating the system is not wrong.

Good to know that you able to state that 66% would not be top commits. I'm sure you have empirical data.

Waaaaaaaaaahhhh. No one cares. The rules are the way they are and they aren't changing. Get over it or find another sport.

Signed,
Parent of 3 on age kids

Yea..We really believe that you have 3 on age kids..Haaaaaaaaahhhh Haaaaaaaaaaahhhhh .

Well he may or may not have "3 on age kids". What we know for sure is that your coaches phone didn't ring once this summer asking questions about your little johnny and regardless of your delusional state of mind, removing a handful of reclassed kids wouldn't have made a difference. Very simple. More wall ball, more speed and agility and weight training, participate in other sports etc etc.. You're welcome. All that advice to get Johhny looks free of charge.

Not the case! Son committed as a on age / public school sophomore to a mid level D1 program. Earned it on his own merits. No additional help from mommy and daddy needed!

Spoken like a true patent of a holdback.

Congrats. Job well done. Not sure what your point is though. I don't really care what your response or anyone else's is but if I were in that same situation and had the means to reclass and get my "mid D1 athlete" into Duke instead, I'm all over it. So that kid is 4-6 months older then some of his competition or teammates. Really?? Who Frkn cares.. A holdback graduates high school at 18 instead of 17. Really is laughable that people would question the integrity or motive of that player or his parents.

Singed Parent of 2 on age players..

Whats laughable is the strawman you and the rest of the holdback/prefirst apologists keep coming up with.
You keep confusing youth lacrosse with " whats best for your son in school".
No one cares about what your choices are for your child to get an education to attend his school of choice. Hold your son back three years ..Who cares if thats what it takes to get him a good education.

What you holdbacks want is a select group getting an advantage at YOUTH sports that no other sport has. If that means your son gets in a good school due to this advantage..who cares what others think..I got mine!

Means justifying the end usually isnt a slogan you hear in youth sports..but probably is with you.

Heard the SAT's are easier when you are 19 as well!!

The last two posts are as dumb as they get. I use to side against holdback parents, however, you guys are making me lean in the other direction. Such stupid responses.

You are full of it..You are an holdback proponent acting like you aren't.. Try some other tactic..maybe spell out your reasoning clear and concise why you think that way..Not I used to be but now I am not and you guys are dumb.

Don't try that reversible psychotherapy on me! I did not used to be but now do not disagree with that whole scenario! Now who's the dumb guy?

I thought the earlier post was the best of the year...I think this one over took it. Well said and so very true....

So he is saying 80% of the kids playing D1 are on age coming out of school? I would guess its closer to 50% of the kids playing D1 are at least 12 months older then a kid starting public school on time.

The Hawks kid is a stud. He stood out among others in the UA tournament and maybe the reason that he played so much on his club team is because he was one of the best players. Ever consider that? Or do you just immediately assume that politics are always involved?
Most D1 college coaches can have their pick of players....especially Big 10 schools And especially schools who have dominant programs. Why would a coach who could have his pick succumb to politics? Hmmmmm.....there's a question for the masses....
Maybe the kids that are committing early really are good. Maybe they really are the kids who are working both on and off the field. And let's not forget that a coach's impression is about more than lacrosse. All things being equal, a kid's ability to interact with adults appropriately and to conduct himself in a courteous and respectful manner matters as well.

I'd agree about the Hawks middie. He is a real talent. Not to mention he is not reclassed like the majority of the early commits.

Has it occurred to any of you who are hating on the early commits that the majority of these kids will be playing in the MIAA for the next four years? If they are currently standing out on a consistent basis now, the expectation is that they will continue on the same trajectory while they play in the most competitive high school lacrosse conference in the nation.
And I may be going out on a limb here but I'd be willing to bet that none of these kids blame any of their own shortcomings on anyone else. My guess is that they have the guts to self access and the courage and humility to admit it to themselves and others when work is needed to refine their game. Maybe some of your kids should do the same.

Thanks Dad. Everyone on this forum have seen all these kids play over and over for years.

We will all see about this entire group of early commits and whether they end up where their parents think they will. There is no downside for the college coaches- they "lock" in kids but keep all the flexibility in exchange for bragging rights for the kids and parents. It is not the colleges announcing out there -it is the parents saying look at us. The majority all have something that gave them an advantage whether it was holdback, coaches' son, right school or lineage. Whether it holds will be interesting to watch going forward.

You really think the college coaches, where jobs depend on wins and losses, really commit kids based upon politics???? There may be a tiny fraction but a majority come from what the coach sees on the field and after that what a HS or club coach says about them (and I doubt any coach would torpedo a player)...coaches aren't getting called unless the player proved himself on the field. Sometimes it is being in the right place at the right time and playing a style that fits into a college coaches scheme. Stop being so negative about ER, it all seems to workout for many

Poster was being realistic-not negative. And yes, college coaches absolutely do play the politics game so do not be naive to think they are exempt. If they even honor the commit FOUR years from now, many of these kids won't see the field.

Clearly a college coach is not going to take an early commit if the kid can't play. However, like everything in life - knowing the right people certainly doesn't hurt. There is a reason every single commit to UNC is from Maryland. The UNC coach has ties to Baltimore and the Kelly family. Don't kid yourself that politics doesn't play a role.

In the end - all the commits better hit the books and work on their game. A verbal is just that - a verbal. A gentleman's agreement that can be broken by either party for any reason. If a new shiny toy shows up on a coach's door in two years and one of these early commits just isn't that special anymore - guess who loses. Buyer beware...

I'm not his dad or even related to him and my kid doesn't play club with him. He's one of the hardest working midfielders in the 2020 class and when he's on the wing there are no fast breaks. He's very effective and there's not a coach in town who wouldn't want to coach him.
I just don't think that I have to tear other kids down to feel better about my own.

If this is the case, what do you say about the commits in the 2019 class?

I will give you that the relationship helped with Breschi's relative, but the other FCA MD commits (one from Colorado) are studs, recruited by many other schools. The other commits are from all over.

Contrary to what many may believe, there is money being offered in early recruiting.....big money for some. For some of the families that have an early commit it will cost them less to send their son to college than it will to send them to a moderately priced private high school. Therefore, there is a lot at stake and the kids who take it seriously realize that. Most of these kids are committed early because they tend to take their game seriously, set goals, work on and off the field to achieve and improve, and most of the ones that I know also happen to be great students. I'm gonna choose to encourage them and believe that most of them will make good decisions in high school and that they WILL cross the "finish line". It also helps immensely when they have those "political game players" encouraging them to make good choices along the way. When you criticize the quality of the early commits, you're really just insulting the college coaches who made the choices. And perhaps the UNC relationship with Baltimore has something to do with the fact that Baltimore happens to be the nucleus of the MIAA. And maybe the fact that the Calvert Hall coach sends so many recruits their way has something to do with the fact that he happens to coach at one of the largest and most competitive all boys schools in the MIAA...just sayin. Maybe it's just good recruiting vs politics.

There haven't been many MIAA kids heading to UVA except ones affiliated with alum. There has been a Kelly at UNC for the last 100 years and I think there are enough siblings, cousins and the like to keep a Kelly at UNC for the next 100 years. There is a Matthews (alum nephew) and a few other non-relatives sprinkled in. That being said, they have all been very good players and key contributors in many cases. Breschi has a network of close friends who point him in the right direction regarding MIAA. I would call it smart recruiting, not politics

Most those kids will end up at different schools. Offers tend to fall apart over next 4 years. Why do you think there's always crazy list of decommits in every senior class. That usually means the kids offer was pulled and given to someone else.

Not sure who you've been listening to if you think there is a "crazy list of decommits" each year. There are a few each year and most of those have more to do with coaches coming and going.
What's up, Mr./Mrs. Gloom and Doom???

Sorry, meant UNC

You are misinformed. Many kids decommit in many sports, including lacrosse. This is part of the reason the NCAA is debating on putting hard rules in place to stop this circus act. The difference today is early recruiting and " showcases " is a billion $ industry that sucker parents keep supporting. It only takes college coaches 1-2 times to know if kids have talent to play at next level. Then it comes down to other intangibles. I coached college ranks and a team will put out 15 verbal offers knowing they can only offer 5 or so kids. What do you think happens to other 10 offers once the other 5 sign. They get pulled. It's a tough business but that's the way it works. My advice to young early commits is keep your options open and keep visiting other schools.

After what he went through, you have to be happy for Breschi's success last year. I'm a UVA grad who played against him in the late 80s, and I was happy to see his team win it last year. I do wish that he along with Petro and the other coaches committing kids that are 14 years old would stop. They obviously know that a 14 year old does not have the wherewithal to decide where to go to college.

so what, their great schools. its 4 years of your life. Successful people will find success no matter where they go. I didn't know where i wanted to go and ended up in placed. Theres 2 Gagillion schools out there. All claiming greatness. Just go have fun and then make it happen captain. Who cares about networks and alumni. Have faith in the Lord and things will work out great.

No talk in here about Team 91 Md falling apart ? Word is half the team left and went to ROCK ! The Force team is poaching the B team for players which might destroy the B team.

B team? I thought they had 2 2020 AA teams?

No, THEY thought they had 2 2020 AA teams....

Platinum team was competitive in HoCo and MPLL, what's the issue?

91 MD is also taking kids from FCA white and Looney green

Wait...are you saying that a club team held tryouts and is offering spots to kids from other team? I am shocked.

did the FCA kids displaced by the incoming Crabs move to their white team or find greener pastures at another club

Good for those kids. Getting to play with better kids may help them improve their game and rise to the occasion.

They were very competitive and in tournaments too. Sounds like the words of a dad whose son was not asked back to the team. . Heard the kids they lost to Rock are because the coach coaches a public high school in Carroll County that several of the 91 AA and A kids will attend and is trying to bring kids together. 4 of the kids are brothers and if they are the kids rumour mill is talking about some probably would have been let go anyhow due to size and/or skill. 91 had some really small kids on it.

Oh my! Guessing you are on the B team and were not asked to move up to the AA or were one of the kids cut in the rebuild of the team since you seem a little bit upset?

Not associated with the team / club at all. Platinum was never on the level of Force but wanted to be considered the same. Now Force is pulling AA ( not ELITE ), players to fill spots from Platinum, Looneys Green / FCA White. The ones leaving AA teams thinking Force will be Elite are kidding themselves. Boom !

Given the size of their roster already if they are all CH kids they would have to stay with FCA but if they stay on the Blue team, doubt they will get to play as kids were already sitting out on blue.

There are always kids on the greens and whites who are elite players but maybe did not show well during tryouts, who worked really hard during the season to improve, who grew significantly etc. that if they are given a chance they could make the jump. The same as there are kids who are on elite teams that stop getting better and plateau. Would not count any kids or teams out in the next 3 years from getting better or making jumps. Perhaps will not be able to keep up to FCA given the kids they moved around last year and brought in this year but there always has to be a number 1 in the region. Just not Crabs anymore.

The idea of an Elite division never existed until Hoco created a special bracket last year. As far as who belongs in that bracket I can't imagine that anything has changed.

So have the announced whether they are still having 2 teams?

Not enough players at tryouts for two teams.

Not many spots available either...

So have the announced whether they are still having 2 teams?[/quote]

Not enough players at tryouts for two teams. [/quote]

Not many spots available either...[/quote]

There are 2 teams - they had plenty at tryouts over the three days- more than most (except for FCA who had amazing numbers.) Were you even there or just trying to cause trouble?

LOL. Team 89+3 MD is already falling apart in less than 1 year.

Oh no....carma ??

Oh no...can't spell!

Not enough players at tryouts for two teams. [/quote]

Not many spots available either...[/quote]

There are 2 teams - they had plenty at tryouts over the three days- more than most (except for FCA who had amazing numbers.) Were you even there or just trying to cause trouble? [/quote]

I was there, Coach. Good ole Force coach has already ruined the club. Record time too, under a year. Way to go. No wonder there have been no BOOM! posts lately.

Anybody release their fall schedule yet?

Madlax has the 3 tournaments each team will be attending.

Some are out on websites.

Which kids left crabs for FCA?

Crabs and FCA 2020 are trying to determine what dates their players will be in driving school or taking the SATs.

How lame and unoriginal! Promise you not one person thought that was funny. Not even the moms of the Hawks kids who haven't beaten either team in years ..

I still chuckle whenever I see stuff like this...never gets old really. -1 for drive by on Hawks moms.

Last time I checked no "b" or "a" teams were invited to recruiting tourneys for 2020...Platinum was invited to The Inside Lacrosse recruiting tournament and MVP recruiting tourney. Funny I didn't see FCA White or Looneys Green at either. Oh right, they are "b" teams at best with a few "aa" players. Those "aa" players aren't "allowed" to move up because they aren't going to CH and Looney's Orange is only good when the flogo is in town. Check the score of Team 91 Force VS Looney's Orange when the flogo had the sniffles...quite the beat down.

Sorry your son was cut from 91...both teams KILLED Rock. Good luck and I hope your baby boy makes the fresh/soph team in high school with the ELITE Rock coach. One try out is all it takes to get on the ELITE Rock team. I hope the $2,700 club fees for ROCK Elite will be well worth it!

Finally, if any of you lax experts or former parents of 91 players that have been cut watched a scrimmage against the two teams, you'd know the teams were comparable--2 goal difference either way on any given day.

Tough to schedule 16 &17 year old 9th graders. They are a busy bunch.

Or taking one of their many college visits...guess who is getting recruited, guess who is going to a top D1 school to play lacrosse? Not your son. Play for FCA or Crabs if you want to be recruited and play in college

FCA 2020 has only beaten the Hawks one time. I'm guessing they are 1-6 lifetime.

When are crabs and fca blue posting their rosters?

Agreed. If you want to spend an extra 30k a year to have your son repeat a grade or two to get a verbal commitment - Crabs, FCA and Looneys are definitely the way to go. Interesting that you associate a kid getting recruited because of the club he plays for as if these club owners have some secret that no other organizations have figured out. Oh wait - I know what it is - reclassify your kid so he can play against younger boys - that's the ticket.

Last time we checked, only the best kids (or the kids with connections to unc) were committed from those teams. Have to play to get committed - the bench is no place special. Crabs will be behind FCA and Looneys this year so the remaining crabs will be just like everyone else.

Whole different year. FCA is so loaded at every position they will be hard to beat. It will be difficult for crabs to beat FCA or Looneys - The kids FCA took from crabs caused crabs to have to take second tier kids from other teams.

I wish I had a dollar for every time a Dad with a kid that sucks complained about reclassifying.

When Looneys lost, they had 3-4 players hurt. FOGO included.
The next week we WON an event without him..we also play many more events than most clubs.
I enjoy the hate for our club!!

Why is the most common response - "your kid must suck, play more wall ball, train harder"? My kid plays on an elite team and committed as a sophomore. Yes - I think reclassifying is BS!

Looneys Green beat you 12-3.

Another loser trolling 2020 forum with a "committed sophomore". Or perhaps it would yet another dollar for your other kid who isn't cutting it..

Serious question - are any of the MIAA kids that have committed NOT reclassified?

And you lost to HoCo Pink...but keep talking about how great you are. And while you are doing that, you may want to find a new home away from MM and BJ because they will just ruin your kid.

Yes per UA rosters
Hawks MD to MD (Dob 11/14/01)
FCA G to MD (Dob 8/27/01)
FCA A to UNC (Dob 8/13/01)

I wish I had a dollar for every time a Dad with a kid that sucks at his own age group had to reclassify him to compete against kids younger than him.

two of those are holdbacks

We'll played sir!

My 2019 son is 04/10/01
They might be in the correct range but they are all on the old side. This data goes back to the Hockey report from some years back about the rate of older kids being drafted.

here we go again. 3 days and 19 days. you are right, they gamed the system. being that much older really gave them a leg up. UNC and UMD are suckers for recruiting those kids.

Good for them. Imagine the anxiety of the parents who have double holdbacks and these on age kids get the nod before their 16 year old. Karma is a [lacrosse]...

90-Uno parents should just move on. Based on the logic of the original poster and all thing being equal with Platinum and Force only being 2 goals difference, then FCA White, Looney Green and HOCO Pink could also beat 90-Uno Force! No wonder there was mass exodus to Rock.

The question was asked and answered. No matter how you spin it they would be considered holdbacks - by their age they should be in the 2019 class. The non holdbacks will all get their time too.

3 days and 19 days ?? That would be to Sept 1? The very first day to be eligible in age based. So these players are always playing against kids younger than them by much more than 3 and 19 days. Taking advantage of the system to always being the oldest and always playing against younger kids in youth lacrosse sure doesnt seem in the spirit of all we are taught in youth sports..I assume these kids could not have had same results being the youngest on age players.

Why cant ALL August birthdays play down like these players??

Actually, the two players did play with 2019 until this past spring when the 2019s were in high school. So they were the longest in the age group and still committed to great schools.

*youngest in the age group.

And have you ever stopped to consider that these kids (even the one who "gamed" the system by 3 whole days) had to move up a year before their classmates did when they played rec travel lacrosse? Who can say for sure but maybe it's part of what made them better. Just sayin.

Playing a competitive sport is part of what prepares you for adulthood. You face challenging situations and get a ton of chances to figure out solutions before you have to do something similar on a larger scale in real life. Maybe your son will whine when he has to compete for business against someone who is older and more experienced than he is. When you welcome challenges, you welcome growth and success. GET OVER IT!!!!!!!!!!

Actually, the two players did play with 2019 until this past spring when the 2019s were in high school. So they were the longest in the age group and still committed to great schools. [/quote

They moved to 2020 last fall. UNtil then they played where they belonged and miracously commit when they start playing with younger kids. Smh

And they stood out amongst the 2019 class, as well. They're just really good players.

And they stood out amongst the 2019 class, as well. They're just really good players. [/quote]

Okay dad.

Then why do holdbacks always want an advantage very few others have and holdbacks get to play down against younger players??? Another do as I say not as I do holdback apologist.

Thought we were talking about YOUTH sports of children between 8-15 ?? Not the corporate business world?? Isnt there another site for holdbacks and business? LOL

The grade based system is a complete failure. Too many parents chasing early commitments and college scholarship and club owners feeding the frenzy have created an unsavory environment. Age based youth lacrosse until the 8th grade would be the best scenario to create a level playing field. Eventually US Lacrosse will get this done - it's the best for everyone over the long term.

Another idiot dad. News flash - youth lacrosse USED to be age based. It was changed to grade based like the girls side is to make it easier to compare kids within the same grade. Then some dads cried about it and now it may get switched back.

You'll learn that nobody cares who wins a youth tournament or game. The point is for these kids to compete against kids in their same grade. What's next - crying about playing against seniors when your son is a junior?

LOL. It's not that big of a deal, dad.

I so agree with this... People complained when things were U13, U11, and U9 because they were loosing tournaments to older kids... It will never be good enough for these entitled parents...

Read much? Age based until high school. You are clearly benefitting for the grade based system in some way, shape or form. No one in their right mind could possibly think having 13 year olds on the field with double holdback 16 year olds is good for the kids or the game. Let me guess - holdback dad, club owner?

Actually the idiot is you. It wasnt switched to grade base to make it easier to compare. It all started with some Jerk in Howard County /HOCO making a grade base league instead of age like U9,10,11,12,etc a few years ago. All Howard County leagues in Howard County are age except Lacrosse.

Once that was available the Crabs and a couple others who had major influence in MIAA private schools took it and ran with it. Crabs, etc wanted the best teams and with MIAA holdbacks and the Crabs reputation for having good teams it worked. It also coordinated with the explosion of Club Lacrosse. Frankly many in Maryland were taken aback about Holdbacks. Most people outside the MIAA had NO IDEA that there were that many kids heldback.

Now you apologists want us to believe that you were only thinking of Little Holdback Johnny getting recruited or playing with his friends. Even worst is now the explosion of kids being held back in 8th grade now due to this holdback mentality. .

Yea no one cares according to you. Many care and find Lacrosse has become something less than desirable at the youth level. And it rests on the shoulders of all these clubs promoting holdbacks playing down instead of their age.

And once again you holdback apologists show the hypocrite in you. No one ever complained about HS players playing against older players. But you holdback apologists always want to be the oldest, dont you in youth Lacrosse?? Hypocrite

I guess you failed your critical thinking and vocabulary class. No one moaned except to say that the next year we will be the oldest and get our time. Get it..Every other year you get to be in the oldest age group. Pretty simple concept?

With the single year grade base..the only entitled parents are the ones that get an advantage that others do not get with their holdbacks. That is the meaning of entitled..believing oneself to be deserving of privileges or special treatment others dont get.

It is the entitled private school parents that have caused the problem. Grade based would have been fine if the private school ENTITLED families did not start holding their kids back for an athletic advantage over younger smaller kids.

Nope. My kid is playing in college now. It was age based throughout his youth years.

There were some years when he was on the younger side of U13 or U15 where he was playing against kids bigger/more mature. Wasn't a big deal. Just have fun and get better.

Some day you'll realize that youth lacrosse is just a few years and it's not a big deal if it's grade based or age based.

Kids are held back for different reasons.... Most are because they have late birthdays and can't keep up with academics of the older kids in class... Some more than 8months older...A clear advantage right? Yes there are some crazy parents out there that hold their kids back for sports reasons but those people are a minority... Don't judge every pre-first or grade repeating kid on you clear generalization...

Hey dummie.. There never was u9, u10, etc... for every age group. Only u9, u11, u13, and u15...Get you facts correct

3 days or 3 weeks don't make a difference.....if you really want to blame something, blame the education system in Baltimore. Two of the kids that have been mentioned attended school in accordance with decisions that were made extremely early in elementary school. Neither one of them has ever repeated a grade. And when given an opportunity to play up, they jump at the chance! And oh no! Sometimes it's with kids who are 2-3 years older than they are!
So get over it already and stop bashing.

You big fat crybaby....Uhhg BOO HOO..Tell your kid to work harder and maybe you can play on some of these clubs and then you will know the truth that all you have said is a complete fabrication and generalization... Yup not denying holdbacks....Not the epidemic you speak of....

Diaz vs Mcgregor 3?? Nah... I want to throw "entitled apologist" holdback dads in the cage vs Wendy whiner "aka"..my kid sucks to duke it out.. I just collect another few dollars btw ... Lol ..

Please look at the Crabs, FCA, Loonies, etc players/ages. Tell me with a straight face that when of these teams with multiple reclassed players (1 and 2 years) plays anon age team from somewhere outside of Maryland they don't have a HUGE advantage simply because their players are significantly older. Having kids repeat 8th grade for athletic reasons is bush league. Tell yourself it isn't - but it is....

They have an advantage primarily because the sticks have been in their hands since they were three or four years old.

Being over 40 in my over 30 hockey league does not help. I tried being a hold back but seems to not work. Please help.

Yeah the post from some guy saying his 2019 son who reclassed and turned down top schools and finally decided on a "top ivy" is real push league.. If I had the means and could do it over again for that outcome I would be all over it. And if you deny that you wouldn't do the same you are full of sh$$!!! Imagine having the opportunity to get into Princeton for example??? unless you are the top 2% in your class with a weighted 4.3+ and 1350+ SAT you have zero shot.

you mean primarily because they are bigger and stronger than the kids on age, some cases 18+ months older.

That's rich. Silly argument. 10s thousands of kids play lacrosse at very early ages. Their advantage is that they are older. 16 year 8th graders beat 13 year old 8th graders. Stacking your team with 9th and 10th graders wins games. Field a team with on age kids and see what happens to the vaunted Crabs team.

Crabs took a Kooper's helmet...you know they are desperate.

Was there a petro in it ?

good for the Koopers player, no need to knock the kid though.

Ed is that you?

Roughriders too, things must be pretty bleak in Crabland.

no Kevin, it isn't Ed.

There just aren't nearly as many holdbacks as you act like there are.

Sure, you need to play up in the over 50 league

Oh wait they would not let you play in the over 50 league. You guys are grown men just suck it up and work harder and the 40 year old guy will not run circles around you.

I do very good in the over 40 as I am 46 years old. Playing my age is OK but playing down is much more fun. The over 30 guys are much faster and I get better every time I play. I agree, Let's all play down. BTW, I know who wrote this. I will get you rrrrrr. LOL

Anychance you fathers encourage your sons to become academics and productive in society, perhaps a doctor or scientist?

Or just come back to town to coach lacrosse.

My oldest graduated from college and is now a teacher and coach. I am damn proud of him. No more noble professional than being a positive mentor to young people. What kind of scientist is your son?

Nope. I encourage my son to kick your son's [lacrosse] on the lacrosse field. You think you are so smart just because you can read...

Any chance you are [lacrosse]?

^^love it. I also love that we all know every time there is a negative comment about anything (holdbacks, lacrosse isn't everything) you name it. It's coming from a Dad who's club coaches phone did not ring once this past summer inquiring about his little Johny.. Hey look at the bright side. rec soccer tryouts haven't happened yet..

Fly off the handle much? Easy there rageaholic

Is your son the little elf that wanted to be a dentist?

Hey!!!! Do not pick on Dentist. The average dentist makes 250k per year. I would think that is much more than a teacher or a lacrosse coach.

Or just 3 days older….

You're an anti-dentite!

Homophobe, sexist, probably unemployed living thru your son.
Actually my son plays attack for team 91 and is an honor roll student. And I wouldn't care if he were [lacrosse]. Would love him anyway. He's got bigger goals than lacrosse. Loves the sport. Try some introspection. Therapy? Perfect example of what's wrong with youth lacrosse.

Any truth to the rumor there will be a movie made about coach BJ and Team Nine-d-1 2020 called Dude Where's my team?

This may be the best.....post.....ever.

You sound like a "normal" parent, and I totally agree with you! There are some people out there that are way over the top and lazier focused on their son's lacrosse "career" and have lost focus on the fact that it is way more important to be well rounded. I feel bad for the kid in thei situation, because no matter what they do it won't be good enough.

Still posting? It gets old your personal issue with that coach and team. Your son must have been one of the kids cut in the past and white or green not working out so well. Let it go,

Do you really take your son's lacrosse that seriously that you continually have to put everyone down? Very sorry for you and your kid if your kids lacrosse is the most important thing you have to focus on.

When is the big FCA vs Looneys game- can not wait to see who is the new #1 in Baltimore!

Which guy are you siding with.. Sounds like that comment refers to all the negativity about holdback critics who whine every post. So I think I agree, all the negativity about reclassed kids is pathetic. Get a life if you fall into that category

. Why is it that when someone post something about coach BJ or his team that their son was cut by this coach? Seems you have the problem, you can't handle the truth so you lash out at anyone not praising BJ. For one, I would never have my son play for this idiot coach. Players learn nothing, his lax IQ is not high and he acts like a total a hole at games. Look at what happened to his team this month, most of them moved to other clubs. So buddy boy, WHOOP WHOOP BOOM.

Agree, he is a total bozo. The perfect compliment to Millon

On paper champions rarely win championships. I predict FCA could underachieve with all the committed kids and their egos. You have to actually care and give effort to win. Team chemistry could be a big challenge for them. And Looneys can only compete at the highest level if the Flogo plays AND his head is in the game. Should be an interesting season.

Interesting take and quite possible. Too many egos.

Looneys will have the issue of managing a huge roster of kids whose parents are full of themselves. Will be interesting to watch that dynamic unfold. The new kids clearly did not do their research.

Your a complete nut. The kids that are committed from FCA and all the other clubs are kids that have worked hard and will continue to work hard. Their character doesn't change because their committed. So many parents with 2020 kids that are not committed want to take a shot at these kids one way or another. FCA is going to be really good as is Looneys.

Did an adult write this? Who talks like this?

Hey Looney's club troll..you must know that Looney's cruised at their end of the season philly summer invite without their Fogo. 5-0 How do you explain that. Tomohawks, Hawks, Rasing sons and Hard true top Canadian team made up of all Edge players Made it look easy.

BJ's ex wife. Try harder to keep up.

Time will tell. Think much of the comments toward the 2020 commits comes from the fact that many (not all) got where they are by playing against kids younger then themselves and did so as a calculated gesture orchestrated by their parents and some unscrupulous coaches. Many of them are no better than true 2020s who were not given the advantage of holding back or being connected with their own parent as a coach which translates into more playing time and connections others do not have, agreed it is part of life but let's not kid ourselves that any of the Maryland 2020 commits who we have all watched play through the years are superior to other players on the top 10 teams in this area. They just had better "agents" and in terms of FCA a preestablished pipeline to UNC and miraculously all are now CH or FCA players - part of the deal? Not a coincidence and not necessarily the best. Nobody wishes any of these kids harm but everyone recognizes exactly how they got there - except for their own parents.

Just the usual troll out to make trouble. If the rest just ignore this type of idiot maybe we can get back to discussing lacrosse tand not supporting the personal vendetta nonsense.

Not correct. The three Looney's 2020 commits to UNC this summer have never played for FCA and are still on Looney's 2020 for the upcoming season.

I see you are still supporting BJ. Well, that is your choice and others have a different and correct opinion of him. Plus we do not need to read your useless dribble. BOOM

As one of the families who left the team very reluctantly, I can tell you that we agree with the poster above. bJ is a great coach and cares about the kids and families which is not seen much anymore. Several who left the team did so to align themselves with their high school teams/coaches and it was a difficult decision. It is okay if you have a different opinion but stop with the immature booms and constant attacks on an individual coach. There is no sense is trying to discredit any coach- just keep your kid where you want them and let others do the same.

I am an adult and I just farted.

Anyone know anyone who attended DC Exoress tryouts?

Agreed.

And that, my friends, was straight from the brain of an angry and frustrated parent. It's hardly entirely the work of an "agent" when multiple schools (more than 8) are vying to talk to a kid. It's also not any type of coincidence. It's physical prowess. On another note, kids go everywhere from Calvert Hall to play lacrosse, not just UNC. And one of the UMD commits attends Loyola Blakefield and has since sixth grade. So this just blows your whole argument out of the water.

For those of you who continuously complain about holdbacks in lacrosse, your kids will likely never be as successful as they'd like to be. And that's not because some other kid is 3 days, 3 weeks, or 3 months older than him. It's because he, like you, blames external factors for his own shortcomings. The right combination of confidence and humility is needed to achieve greatness and success in any endeavor in life….humility being one of the biggest keys. The kids who succeed are the ones who believe that they can be better tomorrow than they were today and they don't believe that anyones else owes them anything.

Unless they are holdbacks then the putting in the work analogy falls apart.

Please don't patronize us with your drivel. My on age kid will be good at what he does (school, lacrosse, etc) because he works hard at it. If he doesn't work at it - he won't. Hard work leads to success.

However, pretending that a kid who is 16 in the 8th (Crabs) does not have a huge advantage over the kids he is playing against is complete nonsense. If you are holding your kid back for lacrosse - you are the problem. Have your kid play against his own peers rather than younger kids. It's a shame he can't compete so you feel the need to game the system. Life is tough...

It really stinks here. UGH... Spicy sausage did not help.

Exactly. They seem to know exactly what everyone else should do, they have a different plan though, and will use all manner of rationalization and deflection to justify it.

Very light attendance - mostly carryover from last year's team

Again, nobody ever has a response for the Parent that posted his holdback summer 2000 bday 2019 player turned down most of top 10 programs and ultimately quietly committed to "top ivy" (wherever that means).. You are all in denial if you say that you wouldn't consider reclassifying if it meant your child would get into Harvard or Princeton by doing so. I would moonlight at Denny's to pay for the extra year of middle school and then the tutuion to make that happen for my child. Maybe that's just me..

I agree I think most would. But we also would like our son to earn his way into a Ivy League school

If you read what I wrote I was specifically commenting about the complaints about kids being three freaking days or weeks older than the cut off date to be "on age"

What's wrong with Kooper's?

The Koopers helmet is a BL Holdback, so by default had to make the team. Helped him that a third of the team left and no one cam to tryouts as well.

Here we go again ...

You know the kid that is going to be successful? The one that challenges themselves. The ones with character. Integrity. Grit.

So in one corner you've got a holdback kid who plays down to dominate.

In the other corner you've got an on age kid who plays up or holds his own with his peers.

Tell me wise one, which kid embodies all the values you espouse? Which kid would you rather be in the trenches with? Work with? Which kid do you think is working harder and being challenged more? Which one builds more confidence?

You know the answer. You just don't want to admit it.

TALENT PLAYS UP. PERIOD.

Without question I would want to work with the kid who had a summer bday whos parents reclassed him just to give him a better chance of getting an IVY league education. "Where there is a will there's way" ...I know you are even smart enough to recognize alumni network alone is priceless. Those people also realize that nobody that matters cares about whether thier son is 18 or 19 when they go off to Harvard.. It's a dog eat dog world out there and until they move away from a grade based system dont fight it. I promise you when your son gets that verbal to ND because he is 5 weeks older then some other players you will reflect back and feel very good about the opportunity you gave him.

Madlax 2020 lost a bunch of kids to BW. Could be a rough year.

More like, the ends justify the means, no thanks. Character counts.

That would be two in a row...

Well they can enjoy the 4 practices and 4 tournaments over a 12 month time frame. Hope they all play at a top private high school who does tons of outside season lacrosse. If not enjoy watching your sons skill level off and stop increasing. You need to play to get better not sit around waiting for SJ to have a off day so you can practice one time a month.

God, you are a real peach. I am a BW dad, and you are totally misinformed/lying when you say BW only practices 4x a year. Please.

Maybe you should direct your efforts to figuring out why kids leave your club for others time and time again. Not hard to figure out why.

3 days or 3 weeks do not make a difference in a kid's ability to "dominate".
Just stop whining!

No Edge players on Hard Core (think Hard Tru is a type of tennis court)

It may just be you - there is no circumstance where I would hold my son back unless there were an educational reason to do so. Definitely not for lax, so he could get $0 in an Ivy or maybe $5-$8K in another D1 school. But maybe that's just me.

Rasing Sons is so good though - I don't know, between Tomohawks, them, and Hard True, that may be this year's top 3! hahahahahaha

You mean like how you holdback apologists keep whining to stop complaining? Got it.

Oh sorry. Same obnxious wing nut parents. So I assumed..

Well then why hold back? Your 3-day or 3-week older kid held back would likely be the youngest on his on-age team by only that same amount.

Personally I'm not sitting here complaining about it. But if it doesn't make a difference one way, then it shouldn't make a difference the other way and there's no reason to do it. I'm not going to judge what you do with your kid, but you obviously think there's some advantage to be had or you wouldn't be doing it.

I don't think reasonable people would think that there's much of an advantage when it's only three days, or three weeks, or (maybe) three months. But you have to set lines somewhere, and when people game the system around those lines, by no matter how much, people have a tendency to get upset.

The thing that really makes a difference is when puberty hits. If several (or most) kids on a team have already hit puberty because they've been held back, and they're playing against kids that haven't, that's where it actually is unfair. That's why the issue is 7th and 8th grade. Because kids held back one or two years in those grades are more likely to have hit puberty than on-age kids in those grades.

You hear stories about on-age 8th graders playing against a twice-held back 8th grader who drove to the game and was about 6-2 225 (I've seen that happen). I'm not sure really what that kid gets out of playing kids half (or less) his size, except film showing him dominating kids he should be dominating.

I've said it before... high school is the great equalizer. When that kid finally has to play against kids his size that have experience against older kids, you'll see how good he really is.

But there are safety and player-development issues that should be addressed. Youth sports (before high school) should focus less on winning and recruiting and more on player development. No one gets anything out of a 20-0 game, and believe me I've been on both sides of those games. Those kinds of results should be rare, and they should be addressed in some way when they happen.

How many left? 3 left last year....are there more?

No it doesn't but there is a commonly accepted date - 9/1 in MD - and they are on the wrong side of it. They should have started school on schedule and worked harder...like you keep telling everyone else to do.

aren't these kids in high school now? and will be playing against kids 3 and 4 years older. lets see how it all shakes out. we will see how these early commits do. my guess is that they will be just fine.

That is another common holdback counterargument. In reality *most* freshmen will be playing jv, limiting the age gap to 1-2 years. Gap gets a little bigger once they are sophomores if they go varsity but at that point they are mostly all through puberty and the physical difference are much smaller.

What else do you have?

#keeptrying

No it doesn't but there is a commonly accepted date - 9/1 in MD - and they are on the wrong side of it. They should have started school on schedule and worked harder...like you keep telling everyone else to do.[/quote]

aren't these kids in high school now? and will be playing against kids 3 and 4 years older. lets see how it all shakes out. we will see how these early commits do. my guess is that they will be just fine. [/quote]

That is another common holdback counterargument. In reality *most* freshmen will be playing jv, limiting the age gap to 1-2 years. Gap gets a little bigger once they are sophomores if they go varsity but at that point they are mostly all through puberty and the physical difference are much smaller.

What else do you have?

#keeptrying[/quote]

lets see this spring, but i would think that some of these early commits will likely make their HS varsity team. if this happens, it will be interesting to see how they do against varsity competition.

aren't these kids in high school now? and will be playing against kids 3 and 4 years older. lets see how it all shakes out. we will see how these early commits do. my guess is that they will be just fine. [/quote]

That is another common holdback counterargument. In reality *most* freshmen will be playing jv, limiting the age gap to 1-2 years. Gap gets a little bigger once they are sophomores if they go varsity but at that point they are mostly all through puberty and the physical difference are much smaller.

What else do you have?

#keeptrying[/quote]

lets see this spring, but i would think that some of these early commits will likely make their HS varsity team. if this happens, it will be interesting to see how they do against varsity competition. [/quote]

They'll do better than average since they are holdbacks, which is what this thread was about. Nobody cares that they are early commits since technically...they aren't.

I was on another thread and I came up with this question. How do you all feel about the 2020 class as a whole for the DMV? I say compared to the DMV 2019 and 2018 classes it is far behind. I am really looking for a Dad with a 2018 and a 2020 sons. We all know we only watch our sons grad year so we are all locked into our grade not the others.

Far superior. Go away troll

2018 is a freakishly talented year. I don't see any years that follow to be able to even come close. I also agree that 2020 seems much less developed than the 2018s when the 2018s were in 10th grade.

2020 is much better and deeper in talent than at least the two previous graduation years!

Maybe because the 2020s are only in 9th grade.

So perfect - this is the best post I've seen in weeks - LOL

find a 2020 and ask them to tutor you on simple math.

If you're looking to grade the talent level of the DMV for 2020's it looks weak compared to the 2019/2018 classes because none of the best 2020 players from Maryland want to play for a DMV team such as Madlax. The big reason that the 2018/2019 teams look strong is because for those years players from Maryland were/are willing to play for team's like Madlax. No more. All the better 2020 players from Maryland that are now at Landon/Gonzaga/Prep/St. Albans/SJC all play for teams other than Madlax. The 2020 class from Maryland is strong and they're getting lots of offers from D1 schools now, same as you're seeing with 2018/2019. I'd expect the same if not more commits from the 2020 class, just don't expect them all to play on a "DMV" team like Madlax. 2021 will also be a big miss for the DMV as DC Express 2021 will dominate (mostly Maryland players).

The opinion of most D1 coaches is that the talent is extremely deep in the 2020 class. That's part of the reason that we are seeing several 2020 commits before a typical number of 2019 commits.

No, dad. You are not plugged in, let alone knowledgeable to say "the opinion of most d1 coaches is ..."

There were just as many 2019 kids committed at this time as there are in the 2020 class. You have no idea what you're talking about.

And there will be even more 2021s next year.

But you are? Clearly you are not "plugged in" either, or knowledgeable. Talk to me when you accept your position as a D1 coach...LOL

There were 10 2019's that committed last summer. 36 2020s committed this summer. That may be indicative of coaches thinking more highly of 2020s. Or they just continue to get more cra cra every year

Bang bang - sounds like someone knows what they are talking about, and it ain't the "No, dad." guy...hahahaha

Based on the talent, or lack of, in some of the 2020 summer commits, my vote would be cra cra

2nd the cra cra vote!

The timing of commits is a very poor measuring stick. Just 4 years ago, "first" was during the freshman year and "early" was before junior year. It doesn't mean that overall talent level of those classes was worse, just that certain coaches (at JHU, UNC and UVA) have since completely lost their minds

Maybe because the 2020 commits are really supposed to be 2019?

Slow your roll Troll. Put a 2020 DMV all star team up against a 2019 all star team and watch what happens. [lacrosse], put a 2020 DMV all star team up against Madlax 2019 and see what happens. This argument is made every year and never holds water.

My son visited four D1 college campuses this summer and it was the opinion of every coach we met that the 2020 class is deeper in talent. But you know and all.

Same, visited 2 top 20 schools and committed to one and both staffs said the same thing. I can tell you as a non maryland person, the 2020 class in Maryland is the strongest in the country. Its loaded with talent.

BAM! But you know and all.......

Be on the lookout for Brentwood kid on 91 this summer.

Word on the street he is attending sa private school in Hungtington. Lookout for him too. Next upcoming player, very quick and team player. Name will be heard around soon.

Yes we know, kid going to SA. Very good, saw him at lax camp.

So there are two Brentwood stars now? One girl and Boy. Both attending the same school? Are they related? Is the girl coach also coaching 91 "star"? Anyone beg to differ?

What a coincidence... Apparently there are 2 stars in Brentwood. I guess you can say this sport is growing... Wish the best of luck for both the boy and girl as they will more than likely play lacrosse at the same school and they live in the same town. I love it.

What position does he play?

Attack. He joined 91 this year apparently.

I assume the two practice together since they live close. It would be oddly strange if they didn't practice together and they're both great players.

Is the girl the one from Leg?

Brentwood md ? Or New [lacrosse]

Alright alright back to the original MD topic. Why is Maryland leading by so much as opposed to Long Island 2020 commits? Are there still spots available or is almost all the recruiting for this age group soon to be completed?

I see the crazy Long Island stalkers are back on a different thread trying to stir up ruckus.

Listen up..

I will not have some loser idiot (adult?) calling out kids on BOTC..

I am getting really upset with it.. Knock it off and grow the f$@k up!!!!

Anybody have any insight as to what Jake Reed is going to do now that 3d and he have split? I see 3d is concolidating to just two feeder tryouts for their own camp. Not clear from their email how you get invited, though. Wondering also what Jake Reed has planned...

When did this happen?

It's direct invite from Jake Reed

You can submit a video to get an invite

LOL

Envelope filled with cash will suffice

Has anyone seen a DC Express roster for any age? Will they ever post rosters online or are they in the keep in secret club.

You are a creep.

Same question about next level

I am asking for a high school teams roster. These are the same kids who have there names put in the paper for good and bad plays. They are not 7 year old boys. The roster is the best way to tell how good a team is going to be. And if my son wanted to change clubs this roster or any roster would also help him and I pick a club to tryout for or to contact.
And you might find it hard to believe but I like to check up on my sons old teammates or kids I have coached. I guess it would be less CREEPY if I just called all my old parent friends from the past and ask where is your son playing.

No, you are a total creep. Who wants to surf the Internet looking for the names of teenage boys, let alone ones who don't play with your son?

If a club doesn't want to publish its roster, that's their call. If you son wants to change clubs, I'm sure they will discuss their current roster with your family.

God, you are a weirdo. How about less teenage stalking, and more going back to school to learn how to read/write coherent English sentences?

If I were you I wouldn't be throwing stones about English sentences, your sentence structure is pretty bad.
Perhaps you could go back to school with him.

Um, there is nothing wrong with what that guy wrote. Perfect good English. If you don't like the content of his post, that's another thing.

But unlike the other redneck guy, his post is written very well.

Written very well? You have to be kidding. And your response, "perfect good English"?? Perfectly good English? What do you think? Now, speaking of rednecks, should we start on you?
Your grammar is almost as bad as the first guy. Good grief, no wonder you people won't post your names, would be too embarrassing.

You really are an idiot.

Is this a lacrosse forum, or an English class? You people will find anything to fight over. It's pure entertainment.

This thread has taken a weird turn

. Agree. Need to keep the focus/discussion on lacrosse and not all the other bs that some want to jump on.

It's the Jerry Springer Forum!!!!

So the UVA Prospect Day turns out to be a 'clinic' instead of a recruiting event over the weekend. The new coach claims to be looking at juniors only for offers and planning to poach as necessary.

Anyone else have feedback from this weekend's session?

Certainly plenty of talented kids there, as well as some not so much.... I think if you are a 2020 this was a bit of a bust. Coach definitely made it clear he is not looking at 2020's would be recruiting 2019's but not committing them. When he talked to the kids on the upper field right after the last game he said 2019's that he is interested in would hear from him and 2020's should come back next year..... So if you are a 2019 verbal I'm sure it will be interesting to see how things progress. Doubt they have a freshman prospect day next year. He referenced liking Notre Dame's model.

Where are the good fall tournaments at and who will be there?

I wouldn't consider it a bust. If you are a 2020 player and want to play for UVA you got a good sense of what he is looking for/what type of player you need to be to play there. Big focus on long poles pushing the tempo. Meatheads need not apply. I bet he has a National Championship within 5 years.

Inquiring minds want to know...
Will 2020's (or any other year for that matter) that are already committed, play in showcase events or attend prospect days (other than the school they are committed to)? Just wondering what they norm is

I think we are just going to save our money.

Depends. Those who are committed are only going to the best events (e.g. Under Armour underclass) and even then many of them are going to pass.

You have to play to continue to improve. Committed players will play in team based events because they are team members. Individual showcases? Why do that? Prospect days? Scams anyway. Save your money. Let the schools figure out another way to pay their assistant coaches.

A 2020 that is committed is no where near a finished product. While I wouldn't push to attend prospect days, I would certainly consider showcase events that attract like talent such as the Committed Showcases that have cropped up. It gives the kids an idea of where they stand and what they need to work on. Parents seem to think committed is some panacea. Your kid could be committed, but the commitment is simply opportunity. They could play, or as we've seen ride the bench for four years or simply bow out.

If it were my son, the norm would be to continue to develop and push to get better. I'm sure there will be kids come junior year who switch commitments; with this day and age of early recruiting its inevitable. Poaching can and will continue, and I suspect rise. Kids who are committed can still get looks ...

Some kids will do that. Others will take their foot of the gas. It will be fine for some, and it will other others in the rear.

Any feel for how good of a recruiting event the Atlantic Coast Prospect Games will be for 2020s?

I wonder what the college coaches of the "commited" kid think? Do they want them to continue to play in individual showcases or do they take that to mean the kid really is shopping around? I guess it could be a tricky situation. Not to mention, does that 5-10% scholarship really mean you should continue to shell out all that money at prospect events? I understand continuing to play with your teams (club and HS)

One other question, do college coaches really want to "waist their time" going to a showcase where a good portion of the kids are already committed?

Bravo bravo.. 13 posts. Count em fellas 13 posts with out any negative comments.. I just checked in and was pleasantly surprised and actually felt like I gained some insight into Prospect camps... Keep it up..

Just said to myself, "Good Lord everyone's getting along!"

It depends. Sometimes they have know certain uncommitted kids that interest them will be at event, so they go there to see them.

Sometimes they are in the area anyways and want to see how one of more of their commits are doing.

Sometimes they just go because they feel it's worth the time to potentially see someone that interests them.

All the negative people can't weigh in because their sons are not committed. My son is 2020 commit and he will do a handful of team events with club and some with school. We will stay away from invite showcase like maverik and adrenalin. Great events but not worth money once committed. Curious to see what his college coach feels if he would show up at individual events?

There is nothing negative about commenting on a silly recruiting process that gives imaginary/non-binding offers to pretend 8th graders who are double Holdbacks. I'd be willing to bet you are from the Baltimore area and your kid is reclassed. Right?

fair enough congratulations on committing and I think as long as one stays involved then that's what coaches want. Our 2020 has two early commits and I thought they would drop the travel program as the costs are high. Both Father responded that they want their sons to continue to play to keep the team strong allowing other players to be showcased I thought that was pretty classy of them

Nope of age kid.

Another Baltimore 2020 off the board. Probably another reclassed kid. NY is the only state that has on age kids in the 2020 class that are committed. SAD

Not a reclass. Why even comment if you don't know?

So you say "probably another reclassed kid" although you have no idea. Then you say NY is the only state with on-age kids who have committed, although you have no idea if that's correct.

Even if you are correct, there are reclassed kids in basketball, football and many other sports. Colleges don't care about the age - they want the best kids in each class. You may not like it, but you are tilting at windmills.

Sorry to burst your bubble but today's commit not reclassed or held back

All 3 PA kids are of age and not Summer birthdays!!

Complete false argument, No one doubts that colleges want the best kids in their class for all sports. Who has ever said otherwise. But why is that a driver of the thousands of lacrosse players playing YOUTH lacrosse. Why does lacrosse have some special need to give these heldback kids a advantage at the Youth level?? Is college the reason we let select heldback 10 year old children play against 9 year old children?? Or 16 year old children play against 14 year old children??
Hockey , Soccer, Baseball , Basketball all go by age at youth level?? They have more participation and generally stronger programs in college than lacrosse. Is lacrosse something special??

AAU basketball just recently tried to have some grade based teams. It is a complete mess. Many top AAU basketball programs refuse to play the grade based teams. Of course we know why??
At least in AAU basketball the better programs know what is right and wrong.

Age based in Youth, and grade based in High School. Only way to do it.

I like age based in youth and grade based in HS... If not, how about grade based everywhere with thresholds? ie: 2020 player can be grade based with a birth date no earlier than 1/1/01. Thoughts? That clears up the late birthdays and any reclassed kids not to be exceedingly old.

You generally play against kids a year or so older or younger than you throughout your youth sports career. In HS and College you generally play against kids up to 3-4 years older or younger. This stupid loser argument of "holdbacks" is primarily and incessantly fueled by 7th and 8th grade club lacrosse parents who seem to forget that their kids have been playing in a two-year spread age group their entire lives, but for some reason it is now time to complain when some kids have developed more than others at this point in their lives. Most private schools do pre-k, most public don't. SO, as you leave the youth-based age groups with two-year spreads, and if you live in a very diverse public/private school community, that two-year age spread carries from youth sports (which you were already doing) into HS sports. Let's face it, there are very very few parents that convince a school to allow their kid to repeat as a teenager, and there are very very few parents that send their kids to private school, so they can add a pre-k year for athletic purposes. This is a loser debate. When you get out of school, you will compete for jobs against people with many more years and decades of experience, so get used to it. If you are good or great at something, someone will want you. If you are not good or great at something, than find something else. You know who could care less about this stupid argument - good lacrosse players. That is, until their parents whine about it so much that it becomes a reality in their own mind.

For the last friggin time, it used to be age based for youth and grade based for HS. Girls has always been grade based.

It changed 3 years ago because club/coaches wanted to have kids grouped by grade to make it easier for grade based comparisons, rightly or wrongly.

You may not like it, but that's what it is. NY dads complained to US Lacrosse, and now they are trying to put the horses back in the stable. They might succeed, they might not. Until then, just tell your kid to play and stop embarrassing them with your whining.

Well is it whining when the people gaming the system are gaining a tangible thing. The spots on these college teams have a space limit correct. So they are not gaining a meaningless youth game win. They are gaining a spot on a college roster. And these rosters have a limit. So this is the point of anger nothing else.

Word

Private schools typically suggest and offer pre-1st. Unless it is a national conspiracy among private schools to drive up early high school college lacrosse commitments that was collaborated 20 or so years ago, I would contend there is no gaming of any system, other than maybe a system of inventing an extra school year worth of tuition for a great percentage of paying families. Many people on here probably could have used that extra year, and I would contend that the concept was thoughtfully developed by mostly good people, with education as the primary focus. To say that the government model of grades 1-12, unchanged for let's say 60-70 years, is the gold standard of excellence in education would be questionable at best.

I think a big issue is people give the college coaches way to much credit when it comes to recruiting. They are human and have lives. So they listen to rumors and other coaches to find the best players. So when a kid is playing with kids 2 and a half years younger then him even at a younger age, It helps in the long run. This older kid will be talked about and mentioned in a positive way. So yes the college coach will watch him with his own eyes but he will be swayed by all the great things the club or high school coach has said about the kid. I would never say these ER kids are not great players but its insulting to say the holdbacks are not gaming a system to gain these roster spots.

Again, you are trying to equate differentiating educational systems (public vs. private) with club lacrosse. The two do not go hand in hand. Sorry, but parents are not doing pre-1st when their kid is 5 years old to "game" the recruiting system 10 years down the road.

Most private school HS kids are about a year older than most public school kids in the same grade. This is a direct result of the education system. It is not a viable argument to say this system was developed to influence sports recruiting. Therefore, it is not fair to say people in this situation are "gaming" the system. Should parents have their kids skip a grade in private school to keep in line with the government system? Seemingly, that would be "gaming" the system.

No one cares about Private schools and doing PreFirst..No one cares what you do for your child to get him a good education..
Most dont even care when it comes time for you to be on your HS team.

What people DO CARE about is the gaming of YOUTH SPORTS.. Specifically gaming Youth lacrosse! Many feel letting a select group of children play down goes against what YOUTh sports is about.

You can tell you are not from Maryland or are completely clueless about the education system in Baltimore.
Your "stupid" arguments that as an adult you will have to compete, it is fueled by 7th and 8th grade, etc are lame. I didnt realize that we were teaching our 2025 9 year old's life lessons on adult jobs.
Youth sports is one area most people with any character would have played with a level playing field.

You apologists always want us to teach our children life lessons, have our children play against older competition,etc ...but for some reason that does not apply to the children of the holdback apologists?? Wonder Why??

There is not some nefarious conspiracy at the youth level to hold kids back at school, so that during club lacrosse they can be gaming the system by a year (playing down). Parents have their kids in school, and do what is best for them. Then when it is time to sign up for sports, you either check your age, or you check your grade, depending on what system that sport is using. Sometimes you will be older, sometimes you will be younger. The kids that love the game don't care about this, unless their parents whine at home about it, then it gets planted in their brains at some point. There will always be some bad seed that does the wrong thing for their kid, but lacrosse has mostly good people. It's a shame to create the sense that there is some universal widespread problem.

Ahh it was only a matter of time.. welcome back reclass whiners.. Can we all agree that girls youth soccer participation dwarfs lacrosse participation? Ok.. I would like to point out some recent developmentss for all of those who think the youth lacrosse community is corrupt and parents and players are gaming the system.. The Development academy (the gold standard in youth soccer)). There is no higher organization. Bottom line. There is the NPL, Then a step up to ECNL and then there is the GDA (girls development academy which is the feeder program into all colleges and the women's national team... My 2004 bday 12 year old daughters program was selected to join. They also just announced the age groups for the 2017/2018 season. They will have 3 age group combinations. 14's 2004/2003. 16's 2002/2001 and 18's 2000/1999!!! Oh my God.. Next season my little 8th grade girl will have to compete in front of D1 coaches all season long and at showcases against older more mature 2003 ninth graders!!! Actually it's perfect. the following season she is the older age player in the group.. Thats how it works.. So tired of hearing how unfair it is by parents on this forum. Considering in regions outside of NY and MD you absolutely have to combine ages to field teams!! Get over your pathetic stance on how unfair it is that your little Jonny has to play against kids 7 months older!! Ok 16 months older on a very rare occasion. Your kid and mine either has it or doesn't!!!! Signed on age parent..

"you're kid has it or they don't". What a sad state of affairs. Less than 10% of these kids will be playing professional sports or in D1 college. I hope some of these kids focus on their academics and make a difference in society vs having their parents live thru them to make up for an unfulfilled childhood.

Word

Stay on topic my court jester. Why not address the real content of the post? Oh yeah you are not capable and there is no rebuttal. Remember dopey we are in this for the same "end game". Get our boys into a school they "might" not otherwise get an opportunity to attend.. You can go back to watering the plants now. And it's your not "you're" in this case

Ahh it was only a matter of time till the holdback apologists come and and make ZERO sense.
Did you even think about what you wrote?? Your moan and groan about the "whiners" complaining about select lacrosse players playing down and what do you give us as a example..

AGE BASED soccer !! LOL You are Hilarious.. Here is some logic bright one..Your daughter gets a chance to be the older age every other year in your example..Holdbacks are ALWAYS the older player EVERY YEAR!!! Get it..LOL!!!

Here is another one Holdback apologist wise one.Since you are a soccer guy...Boys/Men soccer is the most popular sport in world..They have more youth/HS/College/professional teams in the world of any sport. They go by age like your daughter??? So why does Lacrosse need to give select kids an advantage always over other children?? Does Lacrosse have it right and soccer governing body have it wrong? Time to call up FIFA and let them know how screwed up they are! LOL

Another day, another FCA commit

Lacrosse is not giving anyone an advantage, and lacrosse is a sport, not an entity. You graduate from high school when you graduate from high school! Public schools don't do pre-first. It is really that simple, other than the less than .5 percent that do pre-first AND repeat a year of elementary or middle school, and usually that bunch actually needs an extra year of school. The holdback skeptics have created this issue in their own minds. Once in high school nobody cares, again, oh have a certain amount of years until you graduate. What would you suggest, age limits for all school grades? Who monitors that, the government! The sport is doing just fine; fastest growing sport nationally for years, essentially no bad publicity. Great kids, great teams all over the place!!

Very well said.

Private schools are in the business of educating children. If your child needs extra time because they can't sit still, get through a day without crying or napping, it makes sense to do an extra year to let them mature. What does that have to do with their ability to play sports? Kids don't have to play sports with "their friends" on the grade. I personally believe hockey does it right. You make a team by birth year- regardless of your grade. If your team is good, you can play up against Majors if you are in the Minor division, but you never play down. Every once in awhile excellent players get a waiver from the governing body to skip a year and play with an older team. These players are usually the kids that go the furthest. This is the exact opposite from lacrosse. The soft mentality of playing down is ridiculous. Play your age or play up. If you are talented enough, you will stand out no matter where you are. If you are small, you can do a PG year and possibly still be small, but truly talented kids can overcome that short coming.... Look at some of the small college and MLL players. Personally, I was never concerned with my kids as they always played up and are all in HS now, so my stance isn't personally rooted. I just think the sport has been reduced to a "pampered kid" sport and there is less grit among the players. It's far easier to take the easy way out than work to stand out. It's what is wrong with society today- kids and their parents need immediate gratification- if you are not committed or being looked at by 8th or 9th grade, repeat a grade rather than work hard or have faith in your skills. I'm quite disappointed to see that holding back players is now becoming more popular in NY and NJ. I wonder what the new trend will be when the holdback advantage disappears and levels the field.

[quote=Anonymous]Another day, another FCA commit

WOW that team is loaded. When do they post the roster?

9 commits from FCA/Crabs/Looneys. Care to guess what percentage of those are reclassed? Age based classification for youth lacrosse can't come soon enough. What a sham.

Petro at Hopkins does not have a single MD commit. Probably because they all know Baltimore is a dump.

so you should not go to Yale because New Haven is a dump...You are a [lacrosse]

You must be from Baltimore. 10 Commits from MD and not a single one to Hopkins? What is the reason Mr. Natty Bo?

Not reclass'd. Did pre-first. Nothing to see here. Youth age divisions would have no bearing on this outcome today, as they are not in youth lacrosse anymore. HS is HS, and recruiting is organized by graduation year, period. Talk to the government about taking a look at the public grade 1-12 system, but don't label the kids for getting the best education possible. Most of the kids on their teams, and the teams they compete against are all about a year older or younger on average. There is nothing nefarious going on here. Good kids, good players.

the girls are not attractive at hopkins. my sons wanted nothing to do with it.

King of Holdbacks doesn't have one from the land of Holdbacks.

Beautifully said.

But, as you say, the girls at Hopkins are not attractive, is this the main reason why your daughter is going there or is it because your wife went to Hopkins?

Larry LarryMiller,
still waiting on who is the best 2020 player in the country who's on VLC.

I have no idea. I guess I could look it up but you could tell me.

Learning lacrosse but soccer is my game.

Oh my God, grow the f**k up.

I am interested to know if people complained about this when current and former players were committing? A small sample of a few from Bmore- Steele, Wells, Shack S were all 19 when they graduated from HS. Colin H turned 22 during the spring of his Jr year in college. He too was 19 when he graduated. Did these great players "game the system" to get a spot on a D1 roster? don't think so.

Cricket's from the original poster(s) who stated that because they were talking out of their @ss. VLC 2020 does certainly have a few really good ballers, but best in the country...NO.

If you read the thread, nobody from VLC said he is the best in the country (although he is one of the best).

More importantly, no minor's name should be stated, let alone on an anonymous forum.

You must be that freak who wants to know the roster of every team out there.

Nah. My guess is that he is just a VLC basher. Small minority, given what a class act organization it is compared to those loons running the other major clubs in the DMV.

No I am the guy who would like to know the rosters of the other clubs in the area. Hey just a news flash I will see who is on each team in a month or so. So tell me again why the rosters are kept so private. I guess Blackwolf and DC express will be playing in burkas this year.

Well then I guess you know where the VLC roster is.... and probably have watched these kids recruiting videos on youtube as well.

I know critical thinking isn't big with the slack jawed mouth breathers on here, but getting your name out there and your "recruiting videos" actually watched and talked about is kinda the whole point!!

VLC is an outstanding club, but there isn't even a top 10 freshman on that team. Stop posting drivel Dad.

So is that creepy or just watching lacrosse?

You said you want to see names of teenage boys because you used to coach some of team (which rec team, btw?) Instead of stalking them online, why not just calling their parents and ask them directly?

So checking three or four websites for about 1 min each is creepy but calling parents you see one or two times a year on the phone from a list I had when I coached there son 2 to 5 years ago and asking them,Hey where is your son playing travel this fall is not creepy.

I'm not a VLC basher. As you said with Madlax in your zip code its hard to compete for that title. I was just looking for a response from a ridiculous statement that the best 2020 player in the country is on VLC. Not true. You sound more like a VLC homer trying to pump up a "B" level club. No need to hash it out on this forum. This years VLC games against top clubs speak for themselves and VLC's talent level.

I suspect it helped a little in HS as they entered HS age wise a sophomore and graduated age wise a Freshman in College.
But all of them played at the proper age in youth for LTRC, Tosontowne, Cockeysville or whoever they played with prior to Crabs. So no one was complaining about the their prefisrt/holdbacks or whatever they did. At age 10 they played against other 10 years olds not 9 year olds as the current prefirst players do. And if you follow these discussions it is about YOUTH LACROSSE not HS lacrosse. So what is your point??

Prefirst is holding your child back. maybe private schools have you convinced you otherwise..but it is holding your child back. Saying that I and anyone with any sense would say that is your right and you should always do what you think is right for your child.But that still doesnt give your child some special right to get an advantage other children the exact same age and birthday dont get in YOUTH sports.

VLC is not a B level club.

Whether you do age based in rec or grade based in club, there will always be a 1-2 year age spread throughout the leagues. I think the point is that the argument is stupid, and lacrosse players don't care. It is a great fabricated issue for parents of average players to ramble on about to create a drama in their own minds.

Myself and many others think the point of letting select children get an advantage other children do not get stupid. No one ever cared about the two year spread as every other year you were in the oldest group. I personally have heard several children talking to other children questioning them about being heldback. And these kids looked 12 years old. So many young players do care,

Several children is an understatement. Ask any on age 2020 what they think of the holdbacks. 8 times out of 10, they will make fun of them for having to reclass to look good.

If VLC isn't a B level club who have they beat? Don't think they beat even Madlax 2020 all season, who themselves didn't beat anyone of substance. What's your justification for VLC not being a B level team? What tournaments did they win this past year? How'd they do against Madlax, NL, Crabs or any of the HOCO elite teams? I guess VLC 2020 can give clubs a good game but until they can win, they're a B club.

I agree VLC is not winning enough games to say they belong with the big boys. But They do get invited to play with the big boys. And for a NOVA guy that is what we should care about in this area. Let the northern teams in MD,NY,NJ,Philly worry about winning tournaments. We just need to put our best players on the best fields so they can be seen by the top colleges. They only way a NOVA team can win tournaments with the big boys is if we put all the top players on one team. And this has only happened on time in this area. And I hate to say it but the Madlax 2019 team is the prefect example of this. But all the other years the NOVA talent is spread out between the Big Three BW,Madlax and VLC

2020 is not an age. Why would you ask a 2020 kid what they think of a kid that did pre-first 10 years ago? Like I said, to create drama and to label kids that do pre-first. How about instead of kids that did pre-first being labeled holdbacks, we come up with a nickname for kids that don't do pre-first?

The VLC 2020 has very good talent and is much improved. But you miss the point. You can't call a club a "B" club based on one particular team (though you obviously only are familiar with one particular grade).

To look at a club, you have to look at multiple teams they field. Though tournament wins is one thing you can cite, a better barometer would be:

how well do they fare placing kids in college?
are their players impact players in HS?
do they play in high quality tournaments and events
do they have strong coaching?

In the DMV, BW, Madlax and VLC are in the top tier. All the rest are below them.

We're on the 2020 thread so I thought the idea was to mostly talk about the 2020 teams in Maryland/DMV. I keep hearing that VLC 2020 is very good, may or may not have the best 2020 player in the country, and has improved a lot. Fact is they're still a B team. I know they have good coaching and do have players that get college commits. I agree that BW, Madlax and VLC are in the top tier, in the DMV, but all 3 teams are B level teams at the 2020 level (or you could call it "A" by the HOCO league standards. None of the 2020 DMV teams are at the HOCO elite level.

You are 100% correct. And I have been killed on this board for bringing up the top 5 players from each team should pick one club and move. But I guess all these parents will just be happy watching all 3 DMV 2020 teams get crushed and the top DMV 2020 players will be the ones hurt from it. But everyone will be special and they will be the star on there team so this is what this group of parents want so I will let them be.

Why don't we just let the season play out and see where we are. Agree VLC has a lot of work to do to get to the elite level, but 2020 added some talent on the offensive side of the ball. Quaker Fest and Autumn Gold will be a good barometer heading into the summer season. If everyone is healthy they'll be in the mix.

Its not entirely the fault of the top 5 DMV players migrating to one team. Fact is none of the top Maryland 2020's are playing on any of the big 3 DMV teams. The only option for 2020's would be Madlax and BW. BW will get a couple kids but not many because of the SJCHS connection. None of the top Maryland/DC 2020's want to play for Madlax, mostly due to CM. All play for others clubs like Crabs/NL/FCA. This isn't true for other Madlax teams like 2019/2018 who have a decent # of MD/DC players. Even with Madlax 2020 practicing at Landon, none of the top 2020's who go to Landon/Prep/Gonzaga are on the team.

Is Autumn Gold considered an elite tournament?

Well if you think it is not Elite then VLC better win it.
Please list clubs attending?

I just looked at last years schedule for this tournament. It had Den. Elite and the Crabs. But they also had 3D mid Atlantic on the schedule. But they website did have lots of colleges that do attend?

Edge Canada playing Nov 5 2020 Autumn Gold anyone else playing that day. Also Nov 6 NLF Frsoh Boys Latin.

FCA 2020 are you playing at Boys Latin School Nov 6?

No they're playing at a tournament in college park. They probably didn't get the invite

That's the trade-off that weekend. UMD Terps or NLF Frosh.

There is nothing fabricated about Crabs fielding 16 year olds on an 8th grade lacrosse team. Sorry - that's weak.

It is a ninth grade team

I love this kind of my son is better than yours attitude. Well he's a year or two older than the kid he is playing against. He should be able to mow over the kid he is playing against. If not he really needs to start playing baseball or another sport.
It's only a matter of time till a holdback or even better a double holdback takes out a on grade kid and hurts them bad. Then the lawsuits will fly. Because it's a known fact that teams are pushing this agenda.

The fact is that wether a kid is held back or not, they are playing according to the rules if they are playing with their graduation class. Please stop whining.

Real simple ... As it pertains to youth sports, kids that dont do prefirst are "on age" . is that the term you are looking for?.kids that do prefirst are held back from going to 1st grade. Holdback seems appropriate, maybe use "not on age"??. Where are you confused??? In any youth sport besides Lacrosse this issue doesnt come up nor is it an issue.

Reason is,Most youth sports are age base and no one cares what grade you are in. It is a level playing field in the eyes of the majority of parents and children.

Grade base is where you let select heldback kids get an advantage other exact same age and birthday kids dont get, majority of parents and children think it is not a level playing field in grade base youth sports. Pretty simple dont you think???

Many people think not doing pre-first and stealing a year of education from your child at the sake of following the government 1-12 system is a disgrace. We call them "rush-forwards". Rush-forwards are really diluting the talent in our age division. It's really not fair and someone should do something about it. Rushing forward had become an epidemic in youth sports.

lmao, awesome.

Agreed. These rush-forwarding apologists have gotten out of control. It's time to take our division back and stop allowing inferior talent to rush-forward.

I think we can all agree FCA and Looney's are the teams to beat (team 88+3 is hiding) .. Is there any evidence that any of the other elite teams made significate enough additions to hang with either team during this up and coming fall ball season? Let's assume every player on FCA, Looney's and Crabs all hold backs... Just want to get that redirection over with. Stay on topic.. I would Love to hear that some of teams that were very competitive but not quite there added some players.

so much focus on age. What about focusing on size/weight? How is it fair for my son who is 5' and 80 pounds to be beat on by 200 pound defenseman that are 6' 4"? My son is considered a holdback as he did pre first - so age doesn't matter. This is a safety issue that is being forgotten with everyone worrying about what college your high schoolers might not get into before they reach sophomore year.

This is a joke i hope. You decided to sign your son up for a contact sport. My son is small also but that is why we quite football because he was not big enough. You can only push and check in lacrosse. There are many ways for a smaller player to succeed in this game. In football not so much.

Would seem to be the case. Crabs were the team to beat last season, they have probably slipped the most.

FCA, Looneys, Crabs. What is the over under on the number of kids on their 2020 teams that are 16/will be 16 before they finish the 9th grade?

Would seem to be the case. Crabs were the team to beat last season, they have probably slipped the most.

[It will be interesting to see how the Crabs perform under their new coaching staff and with 8 new players. I've observed in the past that the Crabs teams, after immediately playing with RM, don't have the same killer instinct. Mix this with a new staff, and it will be a different team, no doubt. Is it possible they could be better?]

Shocker.. a loser with an below average player is on BOTC at 5am whining about hold backs.

For FCA, not many, 4 at the most. Not sure about the others.

That is the best post ever "not many 4 at the most" 4 kids on one team with permits and driving during freshman year. Only 4 that is the post of the year.

In regards to RM and the 2020 team - there is a reason he is coaching the 8th grade team - its because it is the last year he can really take advantage of the slew of holdbacks he has in the line up.

Regardless - the Crabs program is being surpassed by FCA, Looney's etc. They have figured out the secret holdback sauce and are playing it just as well as the fat crab.

The 2020 Crabs team will be different in many ways. Style of play, coaching, scoring, defense. Still top 5 nationally.

The 2020 team will be full of holdbacks just like every other crabs team. Yawn. New style of play? Let me guess - they are going to pioneer the Tufts/Brown up tempo style in "youth" lacrosse. How imaginative.

Shocker - a bigger loser is defending holdbacks at 8AM. Better get up earlier - gotta deliver the mail.

I was online ordering my boys IVY league hoody while you were busy budgeting for a repeat of last years showcasing and money grabbing events. Enjoy brother. "Boom"!

Watch out for Madlax 2020 this fall.

Why should we watch out for Madlax 2020 this fall? Heard they lost of couple of their best players to BW. So I guess when you say watch out you mean watch them only beat the lower level teams and get spanked by all the top teams they claim to be peers with. Even the relationship with Cannons didn't help Madlax 2020 nationals this summer.

Did they gain that many good players after tryouts?

If you are going to make something up, better to write something that is remotely believable.

You owe me a new keyboard. Spit out my drink! Must have a bunch of kids not listed on the roster waiting in the wings. Awesome.

I was going to ask if they were crossing the street!

The only way for Madlax 2020 to gain better players is to get them from outside of the DMV. All of the better local (MD/DC) 2020's are already playing with other clubs and didn't try out for Madlax 2020. Only way for them to get better is to air lift in talent from other states.

Can we just stop talking about Madlax, VLC, etc? They both suck and this is the Maryland thread. Start a thread for crappy DC and VA teams please.

You can shut up now.

We were told that last season, we watched out for them...they never showed up, anywhere...why would this fall be different?

How does humble pie taste? They went into last season claiming to be the team to beat in 2020, and several teams did just that. Still top 5 in Baltimore, not so sure about nationally.

Why should he shut up? I agree, I am really sick of hearing about Madlax/VLC and other Va and DC teams. Request a separate thread for your area and stay out of the Maryland thread. If you don't know, go look at a map, you will quickly (I hope) see that Va. and DC are not in Maryland. Larry, can you assist here, to give these people their own thread.

Hmm, let me ponder this for a minute or two. Do Va and DC want their own thread?

Yes please.

Anyone want to try a top 10 for the class of 2020?

Yes VA please

Now here is my thought.. All of these areas are very close to one another.

I think that VA and DC belong in the Maryland Forum..

Also, I haven't heard from many Va or DC people saying that they wanted their own thread.

Rename it the Mid-Atlantic forum so no one can [lacrosse] at you.

That is a great idea, actually.. You are so smart!!! Thanks!

YES!

crush looneys fca lie wcs blue edge sweetlax upstate nh tomahawks laxachusetts many will be at Boys Latin Nov 6 or NLF Long Island Nov 20th.

NLF Frosh has Crush, Looney's, Crabs, LIE, Leading Edge, NH Tomahawks, Laxachusetts, Edge Canada, Big 4 HHH, Eclipse,Mesa Fresh and wait for it Madlax.

Not sure what the big deal is, Madlax was better than 2 or 3 of these teams over the summer.

I wonder why FCA didn't get an invite to NLF frosh? Is it because they took a bunch of their players and a coach?

well if they lost their better players and its a random three game event I hope they don't play crush looney's and LIE

Crush
Looneys
FCA
LIE
Crabs
NH Tomahawks
Laxachusetts
WCS
Hawks
SweetLax NY

Ironically, those games are where most of the scouting will happen.

THANK YOU for not including 91 Force on that list.

Is Crush def attending NLF or is it 91MD ?

New year, you never know.

Fca
Crush
Lie
Crabs
Looneys
Top five

LIE does not belong anywhere near the top 5. Have they ever beaten any HOCO team?

In order:

Crush
FCA
Looneys
Crabs
Hawks
Tomahawks
Laxachusetts
WCS
LIE

Hawks played crabs close last season, expect they will beat them this year.

Crabs advantage diminishes once the kids on opposing teams have hit puberty. Holdbacks less of a factor as the kids get older. You can be certain that there will be quite a few on the 2021 team.

Crabs 2021 is loaded with holdbacks. Just look at who the head coach of Crabs 2021 and you need to go no further. Ryan M just can't have enough holdbacks. Too bad it didn't work out for him this past season when he was coach of the 2020 team.
Pathetic.

Sad

Holdbacks on every club. FCA has more holdbacks than Crabs, actually. Madlax, too.

Any team associated with a Baltimore private school is stocked with reclassed kids.

However you define holdback, FCA does not have more holdbacks than Crabs. Crabs has at least triple the amount of holdbacks as FCA.

Keep dreaming

Well I only robbed 2 banks and that guy robbed 6 so he should be in more trouble?????????>>>>>>>>>>>>>Ah no you are both bank robbers!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

This is nothing new in Lacrosse or any other sport. It's been going on for decades. Why do you all continue to beat this dead horse. Jump on the wagon and re-class your own kid or just STFU already.

Word

That is not true.. It doesn't happen in every other sport.. IMHO it is an excuse to cheat.. Definition:
"act dishonestly or unfairly in order to gain an advantage, especially in a game or examination." So maybe you shouldn't be telling people to STFU, it is you and people like you that feed this ridiculousness..

Good one!

It's a private school thing! They can afford it and they can justify it. To [lacrosse] with what everyone else thinks - I got mines!

Bank robbers whose kids are recruited by top colleges...oh well

Obviously this poster has ZERO idea what they're talking about. Going for DECADES? Do you even know how long a decade is? We'll wait why you Google it.

Did you even play lacrosse? If so, you know for a damn fact this hasn't been going on for decades, as club lacrosse started fairly recently in the timeline of the sport. Furthermore the cancer of holdbacks/double holdbacks etc. all started in the MD club scene. Coaches/parents/administrators just didn't have the backbone to stop it and call [lacrosse].

If your son is a holdback/double, pre first whatever just have them play on age. Is that so damn hard to understand and compute? PLAY UP not DOWN. But ... but... it's within the rules!!! I am within my God given right to have my son play down. Congratulations. You're everything that is wrong with the sport and what it has become.

This is now a high school graduation year forum, and it would not make sense to play up a graduation year at club once you are in high school. There are no "age" groups in high school lacrosse or high school club lacrosse, so how do you define playing "on age". Sounds like you may still be referencing youth sports. There are no age groups in HS sports.

You are confused, but it's understandable, because you didn't get that extra year of school.

Obviously. Wasn't struggling "academically" so there wasn't a need.

And let me guess....a starter at a Top Five D1 program?

More holdback nonsense. To the holdback crew it has never made sense to play up. Most people define on age as being in the grade you should be in if you started school at the appropriate age, based on local BoE guidelines and only did every grade once. This results in you typically playing against kids your own age...shocking, I know.

When they were in 8th grade they said "it's grade based, so age does not matter". Now they say "they're in HS so age does not matter"... more deflection. Kids get recruited from their clubs not their high schools. The 14 year old 9th grader is still at a big disadvantage to the 16 year old 9th grader when it comes to recruiting.

To the person who said jump on the wagon and reclass...if everyone did it that would pretty much negate all the advantages. We'd soon see 17 year old HS freshmen.

I'm fat and overweight (my wife is worse). I'm uneducated and never played a sport. Haven't broken a sweat in 20 years outside of walking to the end of the driveway in my robe to get the mail in the middle of the day.. We admittedly cheated the system and contributed to ruining the sport by holding back our 2019 (summer 00' bday) son..... Oh, hold on the doorbell is ringing ...I'm back...sorry UPS just delivered my boys IVY league hoody we ordered to celebrate his quiet commit... Bahahhahahahhahahhaha. Ahh my court Jesters..

Anyone basing their education or sports divisions on the BoE, the government, should go back and take that extra year of school. That system is what, about 70 years old! The teams that everyone complains about are about 75% private school kids, so to say the public school grade systems should be the gold standard for setting divisions is a meaningless argument. Aside from a small handful of parents that actually would have their kid repeat a grade for athletics, the age variance these days is based on the private school systems actually evolving, while the government keeps chugging along with a system that was in place before WWII. Private school kids on average are somewhere around a year older than public school kids in the same grade. What if private school parents starting getting on these forums to complain how the younger kids are diluting the talent in the elite divisions - we could really get some action on here!

Merely providing a frame of reference for what people consider on age. If you're arguing that being a 16 yr old HS freshman is "normal" because he's in private school most would disagree.

Dude whatever. 91 Force is stronger than ever! Stoked and loaded with studs!

. Loaded with studs??? Don't you mean holdbacks and a few double holdbacks, because that is about all they have. They still have the two cheap shot players, you know, the ones everyone refers to as probably the dirtiest 2020's this past season, they still on BJ team? We all know how BJ operates but most of the players from this past season left, so what other team did he find to raid? Couldn't do Breakers again.

Didn't you forget to add "BOOM!" at the end of that sentence?

Madlax with #1 players in 2018 and 2019 classes!

Playing for the #1 a-hole in lax. Must be proud. That is why so many kids bolt that club.

I thought 2020 91 was renamed to Rock

doh.

Congratulations to the youngest Ivy League committ ever. Our boys are part of a great class - the 2020s are a talented group and they are all lucky and get better by being able to play with one another.

I am very sure this young man is very smart. But how can a Ivy league school commit a kid so young. He has never passed a AP class yet. And how could he even know he will be ready for a Ivy league class schedule. Going to a Ivy league school is a hard choice to make for a Sr. and a 15 year old just said he is all in. And Ivy league schools do not give money for sports. What does this tell us about the NCAA and what they call Student Athletes. Unless this kid has skipped 2 grades in class there is no way he has shown he can do Ivy league school work.

Sheesh. Can't we just be happy for a kid who has talent, has worked hard, and has been presented with a great opportunity as a result? What happens from here is up to him.

I don't suspect that there's a lot of Princeton grads on this forum, I'm sure the school and the family can figure it out without our analysis.

what team had a Princeton commit ?

I think two things are in play here. 1. Lacrosse people live in their own small world. In that world you have this ecosystem of early recruiting, rankings guys following little boys around, insular club / prep guys looking to harvest the events gold rush. 2. Lacrosse people have increasingly numbed out a cognitive awareness of the much bigger world around them. In that world there are other stakeholders that matter more who see lacrosse from the outside looking in. Admissions officers, university administrators, the general pool of alums, graduate schools parties, endowment managers/solicitors. Generally speaking, these other stakeholders don't hold minor sports dear in general, and few care more about lacrosse in specific over other sports.

This leads to something else: this minor sport gets attention for all te wrong reasons because of a bad set up. Increasingly this has started to, and will continue to a greater extent, some brushback. I'm a large donor to one Ivy that has been blasted by recent negative attention to 9th graders with no grades committing to UPenn. The coach had to be shamed into at least bearding his early moves last year. I know people in a high capacity at Duke where I have a graduate degree, and Danowski now has a seven year streak of bringing commits through with an average of 2 that failed minimal admissions standards but were still presented to admissions. He puts those kids in boarding schools for a PG year when admissions fails them to repair. I get a strong sense Duke wants a university with better academic profiles in minor sports, most prominently men's lacrosse. The new coach at UVA was told when he was hired that one matter to be fired for cause was committing any 9th grader and 10th graders would have to be vetted and held for approval by admissions where a pre-read is requested beyond the early read which happens after junior year.

The landscape will change soon. It has to. A fellow lacrosse dad mentioned to me yesterday that Princeton...yes, Princeton...publicly committed a 9th grader less than one month into high school. My first private thought was Madalon was the wrong hire. My second thought is forces a lot bigger than Madalon will mark him, and he'll be gone in due course of 1-2 years like Bates (who also had his critics in the administration before the incident last year). My third thought was as obvious as it is that Madalon will look awful internally now, it is highly likely that won't occur to him now or for some time. That's lacrosse.

He committed to the Ivy League admissions process, it is way, way too early to see if he will ever step foot on Princeton's campus. This really does make the whole early "commit" thing look very, very silly.

The amount of negativity on this forum from the pathetic loser Dads who son isn't getting any looks anywhere is truly amazing to me. I feel sorry for all of you that walk around envious of others and spew negative vibes.. How about be happy for that kid and anyone else on this forum who has used the sport we all love to their advantage!! . You are all miserable haters.. Not a shot you are happy at home or in life in general. Truly pathetic.

Congrats to that player and his family! A ton of work ahead but enjoy the journey and embrace all the opportunities that will come your way as a result of landing a spot on a Top Ivy League team!

"Young man, work hard, study hard, stay out of trouble and you *will* go to Princeton." Seems like a much better deal than any other 9th grader who aspires to an ivy has right now and a great way to keep a kid focused through high school, good for him.

I think you missed the whole point. I'm sure the kid is a good player and a smart kid too. I'm not making any point except for this: from the perspective of Princeton internally outside this little bubble of lax daddies and bros & club guys, this looks like abject stupidity. And from the outside looking in at Princeton it is also a very bad look. This is a school that represents, albeit informally via a sports coach, that a kid is committed to attend before a single high school semester or grades, SAT's etc? That cheapens out the prestige Princeton is craven to uphold. The point is not a personal attack on a kid/family...it's simply a point that there are certain exclusive schools like, say, Princeton for example that have alums & others chomping the bit to pay millions in donation pledges to secure their kid a seat. These same universities are trending away from that considering the most qualified kids aren't Topper the 3rd per se, and smoking out better applicants to fill out with legacies is a slippery slope. Too much of that and you're university isn't as selective and it more broadly impact the university to the negative. Sports -- same thing, except for that little distinction that the school doesn't add money in the till to do lacrosse knuckleheads a solid.

I agree this guy made my point a lot better then I did. The kid must be very smart. But the optics to the outside world look bad. People roll their eyes when a kid is a early verbal to a "dumb" school. So when you throw in a Ivy it looks really bad to the school. I am just shocked a Ivy would let this get out to the public. I think the smart move would of been to promise the kid a spot but say not to put this out to the press.

The "smart" thing would to be to wait until the Junior year. Any if ANYONE says "oh, but there won't be any good recruits left", is out of their mind. I would guarantee that is top schools started waiting to recruit, the whole thing would slow down. Seriously, our sport looks ridiculous.

This is not new. Ivies like Cornell, Penn, Princeton and Brown have been taking 9th graders for a couple of years now.

"Our sport looks ridiculous" says a very negative person. A positive person or parent makes statements like " keep practicing son and make sure you study hard because maybe you also can leverage your good grades and ability to play lacrosse at a high level to get into a top University"

If (or when) my 3 sport, 4.2 GPA, 35 ACT son gets in to a similar college because of lacrosse all I have to say is God bless "our ridiculous sport"!!

doubt it was PU that put it out to the masses?...maybe was a parent or the kid himself.....I somehow don't think powers that be at Princeton hang on BotC..

Your son took the ACT before 9th grace and got a 35...OK The douchebaggery is strong in this one. You do know this is a 2020, therefore 9th grade forum, right genius?

He doesn't have a 4.2 either [lacrosse]****. That's what he is projected to score after several pretest. Go back to checking on your 35k IRA filled with Penny stock losers.

This frank the tank?

Your 8th grader has taken pre-test ACTs? Really?

Another fogo gone - 91 to Terps. Kid has not been at BL for more than 4 weeks and Ty boy claiming him as the 12th MIAA committ of 45 commits. At least we know he is not a holdback since he is from public school. Congratulations to the kid - great to be picked up by Terps as a fogo.

First on-age MIAA commit (maybe ever)?

Why do you say claiming he attends a MIAA school and you would assume he will be playing in the MIAA the next four seasons.

My children play in the MIAA and the reclassification of kids to improve their athletic standing is out of control. I'd have to bet at least 10 of the commits are reclassed. Sad.

I can not understand why anyone from a MIAA school is shocked by this trend. If you are willing to pay 12k to 39k a year for your kid to have a advantage in life. Why would it shock you that these same people would pay for another year of school so their kid gets a advantage in the recruiting world.

I'm not shocked by it. It is just rampant. I find it comical that there are several kids in my son's grade (2018) that are double holdbacks and they still are not committed. Oh well...

Wait till the 2020 and 2021 start seeing the field, It is crazy the amount of children heldback a grade or two. Now where are the apologists telling us its not cheating, hit the wall,play up, etc..

Well just look at how well they must be doing in the class room. That should help them in the long run. If I was 17 taking sophomore English I am sure I would of got a A+.

Your punctuation and usage sux!!! You would probably get a B at best.

Great point thanks for letting me know my education level and writing skills effect my knowledge of lacrosse. This is why I pay the money I do for my son to attend a private school. He has past his old man.

I like to think your son knows how to use "affect" and "passed" in a sentence too....

I like to think your son knows how to use "affect" and "passed" in a sentence too....

Thank you I just signed up for some night English classes. You have inspired me to better myself.