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Re: For the Love of the Game Lacrosse
Anonymous #9514 03/17/12 01:41 PM
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BOTC felt it would be appropriate to reproduce the text of the full article regarding Mike Winkoff to provide a fair and balanced view. The article highlights Mr. Winkoff as one of the Top Ten people in the Lacrosse Community making a difference.

Reprinted from Lacrosse Magazine, January 2012, Page 59

MIKE WINKOFF, Age 50
Resides in Massapequa, N.Y.
Affiliations : For the Love of the Game, Lax4All
Day Job : Owner, Pioneer Mortgage Network, Inc.

Roosevelt (N.Y.) High School graduated notables like NBA Hall of Famer Julius Erving, shock jock Howard Stern, comedian and actor Eddie Murphy and hip hop artist Busta Rhymes. The redominantly black Long Island school has had its share of standouts in football, baseball and track and field — but never lacrosse.

Mike Winkoff hopes to change that. Roosevelt is at the center of his not-for profit Lax4All program that spawned in 2009 out of For the Love of the Game, the select organization he formed in 2006.

“I watched my son play football against Roosevelt,” Winkoff said. “I thought, ‘Wouldn’t it be great if these kids had the opportunity to play lacrosse?’” Winkoff’s son Corey rose through the lacrosse ranks and graduated from Penn last year second among the school’s all-time assists leaders. But not
everyone gets the same opportunities.

“I didn’t like what was going on with pay for-play,” Winkoff said. “I got out when Corey made the Empire team. We started our own program.”

Winkoff’s team played with L.I. Select on its uniforms for one season, but changed them to fl$ to reflect its true purpose. fl$ fields top teams — they won the US Lacrosse U15 Boys’ National Championship last year — but also focuses on off-field development.

“It’s based in education,” Winkoff said. “We give them tutoring. They must do community service.” fl$ has grown from three teams in 2006 to six boys’ and five girls’ teams from seventh grade to rising seniors.

Such opportunities did not exist in Roosevelt before Winkoff created Lax4All. It started modestly with one PAL team, and then grew to two PAL teams in 2010. A middle school team formed last year, and a JV team is in the works. Winkoff envisions a varsity team in the foreseeable future. “We’re trying to do this throughout the country,” he said. “We want to not just do it in African-American communities, but in communities that don’t have the game. These kids love it.”

This summer, Winkoff will unveil his newest youth program, fl$ Lite. Players cut from youth travel teams will receive qualified coaching and strong competition. “We don’t believe you should start playing travel until seventh grade,” Winkoff said. “They’ll all play.”

In four decades coaching, Winkoff has seen the opportunities lacrosse brings if people are given chances to play. “It makes you grow when you work with them,” Winkoff said. “I’ve always had the passion because I love coaching kids.”

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Re: For the Love of the Game Lacrosse
429lax #9749 03/21/12 02:09 PM
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Here's the facts:
-This is our first year on fl$
-I have no axe to grind with fl$ or the staff (i'm not an LI Express spy)
-Never had to pay additional tournament fees (other than travel and hotels of course) on previous teams.
-No mention of additional fees at sign up (Find it on website if you can)
In fact at website under "fl$ Experience" includes at least 4 tournaments along with all the free swag No mention of additional fees Go ahead and look http://www.leaguelineup.com/newsitem.asp?url=4theloveofthegame&itemid=2873337.

So to keep it simple
!. fl$ costs more than any other team +
2. Tournament fees not included and not made known ahead of time=
3. fl$ is a rip off (at least compared to every other team on LI)

Is that more credible?

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Re: For the Love of the Game Lacrosse
Anonymous #9750 03/21/12 02:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Anonymous
So to keep it simple
!. fl$ costs more than any other team +
2. Tournament fees not included and not made known ahead of time=
3. fl$ is a rip off (at least compared to every other team on LI)

Is that more credible?
Credible is doing a comparison against another club with an apples-to-apples, line by line comparison. It is completely unfair to suggest that a program that is more expensive is a "rip off". Similarly, you should be comfortable asking how much the program costs "all in".

This is one of the beauties of BOTC in that we allow for these types of consumer cost comparisons to be done in the open for the benefit of the parents purchasing these services.

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Re: For the Love of the Game Lacrosse
CageSage #9753 03/21/12 02:33 PM
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Originally Posted by CageSage
“I didn’t like what was going on with pay for-play,” Winkoff said. “I got out when Corey made the Empire team. We started our own program.”


he says he didn't like what was going on with pay for play so he started an overpay for play organization? I am not part of fl$ and everybody that I know that is involved with fl$ loves the team and the organization but I don't get what he didn't like about what was going on with pay for play, was it that they they didn't charge enough? or that people don't know how to pick there own charities to donate to and that by paying all this money to fl$ they can have Mr. Winkoff decide what charities needs your donation?

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Re: For the Love of the Game Lacrosse
CageSage #9758 03/21/12 02:50 PM
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Ok if you don't like the term "rip off" , how about "disproportionally high priced compared to the relevant market for youth lacrosse travel teams in the LI area" and "lacks full disclosure in it's pricing" ?

Does that display sufficient amount of nuance in my choice of language?

Let others be the judge, but I think "rip off" captures it rather succinctly.

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Re: For the Love of the Game Lacrosse
Anonymous #9765 03/21/12 06:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Here's the facts:
-This is our first year on fl$
-I have no axe to grind with fl$ or the staff (i'm not an LI Express spy)
-Never had to pay additional tournament fees (other than travel and hotels of course) on previous teams.
-No mention of additional fees at sign up (Find it on website if you can)
In fact at website under "fl$ Experience" includes at least 4 tournaments along with all the free swag No mention of additional fees Go ahead and look http://www.leaguelineup.com/newsitem.asp?url=4theloveofthegame&itemid=2873337.

So to keep it simple
!. fl$ costs more than any other team +
2. Tournament fees not included and not made known ahead of time=
3. fl$ is a rip off (at least compared to every other team on LI)

Is that more credible?


Sorry you did not see it coming. I really just don't know how it's possible you missed it.

Any other fl$ families unaware of this before signing on? Past or present.

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Re: For the Love of the Game Lacrosse
429lax #9908 03/26/12 11:19 AM
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Originally Posted by 429lax
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Here's the facts:
-This is our first year on fl$
-I have no axe to grind with fl$ or the staff (i'm not an LI Express spy)
-Never had to pay additional tournament fees (other than travel and hotels of course) on previous teams.
-No mention of additional fees at sign up (Find it on website if you can)
In fact at website under "fl$ Experience" includes at least 4 tournaments along with all the free swag No mention of additional fees Go ahead and look http://www.leaguelineup.com/newsitem.asp?url=4theloveofthegame&itemid=2873337.

So to keep it simple
!. fl$ costs more than any other team +
2. Tournament fees not included and not made known ahead of time=
3. fl$ is a rip off (at least compared to every other team on LI)

Is that more credible?


Sorry you did not see it coming. I really just don't know how it's possible you missed it.

Any other fl$ families unaware of this before signing on? Past or present.


Every club seems to operate a little bit differently. Is this information somewhere on the website? My kids don't play for this club, but I was keenly aware of exactly what was included. If this info is not available on the website or printed litature then the club is to blame. If it is, you have no reason to complain for not doing your homework.

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Re: For the Love of the Game Lacrosse
Anonymous #9926 03/26/12 01:36 PM
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My son is on fl$ and has played for a few years with them. At tryout time, the website did say that tournaments are not included with the fee....while it may be more expansive than some clubs, the fee does include a week of camp during the summer. The camp is very well run and a lot of fun for the boys.

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Re: For the Love of the Game Lacrosse
Anonymous #9954 03/27/12 10:55 AM
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Originally Posted by Anonymous
fl$....while it may be more expansive than some clubs, the fee does include a week of camp during the summer. The camp is very well run and a lot of fun for the boys.


So they "force" you to pay for the camp upfront as part of their registration fee? Wow!!

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Re: For the Love of the Game Lacrosse
Anonymous #9961 03/27/12 12:00 PM
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nobody is FORCING anyone to do anything. You have a choice, you are either going to register you kid to play for them or you aren't. Most kids enjoy playing and going to camp with the kids they play with so having an fl$ camp isn't a bad thing. If your child is playing for an elite/travel team then you are obviously into lacrosse for everything you can get from it, you say "force" like you weren't planning on sending your child to a summer camp.

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Re: For the Love of the Game Lacrosse
LaxMom1320 #9964 03/27/12 01:17 PM
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Originally Posted by LaxMom1310
nobody is FORCING anyone to do anything. You have a choice, you are either going to register you kid to play for them or you aren't. Most kids enjoy playing and going to camp with the kids they play with so having an fl$ camp isn't a bad thing. If your child is playing for an elite/travel team then you are obviously into lacrosse for everything you can get from it, you say "force" like you weren't planning on sending your child to a summer camp.


are you "forced" to pay for the camp even if you do not want to attend or can not attend? are you forced to pay for the camp in order to play for fl$? depending on the answers to those questions would then determine if you are "forced" to pay for the camp

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Re: For the Love of the Game Lacrosse
Anonymous #9978 03/27/12 04:19 PM
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no matter what the answers are you aren't being forced to play for fl$. There are plenty of other options out there you can just go play for another team that doesn't "force" you to pay for camp.

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Re: For the Love of the Game Lacrosse
LaxMom1320 #9983 03/27/12 04:59 PM
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Originally Posted by LaxMom1310
no matter what the answers are you aren't being forced to play for fl$. There are plenty of other options out there you can just go play for another team that doesn't "force" you to pay for camp.


the questions remain, can you play for fl$ and not attend the camp or not pay for it or are you "Forced" to pay for the camp if you want to play for fl$, LAXMOM your condescending posts and answers are ridiculous, we all know we do not have to play for fl$ but some of us might want play for fl$ and just not have to pay for the camp of the charities that the directors force upon you if you want to be on this particular club. I have way too much respect for women to believe that you are a lax mom, you gotta be a dude

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Re: For the Love of the Game Lacrosse
Anonymous #9985 03/27/12 05:10 PM
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The camp is something that is included in the registration fee. So from your point of view, it seems you that you think that with all clubs you are forced to where their uniforms, helmets, forced to use their practice fields, their coaches. It is a choice of where you play, and each club, includes different things in their fee.

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Re: For the Love of the Game Lacrosse
Anonymous #9999 03/28/12 08:55 AM
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Originally Posted by Anonymous
The camp is something that is included in the registration fee. So from your point of view, it seems you that you think that with all clubs you are forced to where their uniforms, helmets, forced to use their practice fields, their coaches. It is a choice of where you play, and each club, includes different things in their fee.


True - but some organizations do have options, LIExpress gives you the option of buying a helmet, gloves and shooting shirt but you do not need or have to buy them, and I understand that the cost will include certain basic things that you mentioned, you need a jersey to play on the team but you do not need to go to the camp and you do not need to donate money to charity

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