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Re: Faceoff Petition 2014
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Originally Posted by Anonymous
I read about stringing a lacrosse head backwards as an idea, but think that is still going to be deemed playing in the back of the stick. My idea, and I am not a FOGO parent or lacrosse expert, is why not design a flat head? One curved to a rounded point equally on both sides at the top of the head, and no one way curved rails. Pinch down on the side strung for play and carry. There is no rules on stringing a stick, and if a stick head is cut to have no true "side" kind of like an uncurved hockey stick, then you have a ubiquitous head.

Just an idea. Have no idea if it sounds stupid or not to the FOGO gurus here, but hopefully it can work for you guys. Good luck.


I heard that, interesting.

I also have a question:

Why not just change the rule so the boys face-off using the front of the stick to clamp, not the back. Would that not eliminate the need for the back of stick discussion all together, while keeping the same skill set intact? Or am I missing something?

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Re: Faceoff Petition 2014
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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
I read about stringing a lacrosse head backwards as an idea, but think that is still going to be deemed playing in the back of the stick. My idea, and I am not a FOGO parent or lacrosse expert, is why not design a flat head? One curved to a rounded point equally on both sides at the top of the head, and no one way curved rails. Pinch down on the side strung for play and carry. There is no rules on stringing a stick, and if a stick head is cut to have no true "side" kind of like an uncurved hockey stick, then you have a ubiquitous head.

Just an idea. Have no idea if it sounds stupid or not to the FOGO gurus here, but hopefully it can work for you guys. Good luck.


I heard that, interesting.

I also have a question:

Why not just change the rule so the boys face-off using the front of the stick to clamp, not the back. Would that not eliminate the need for the back of stick discussion all together, while keeping the same skill set intact? Or am I missing something?


I think that is a pretty cool idea - thank you for thinking outside the "X"

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Re: Faceoff Petition 2014
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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
I read about stringing a lacrosse head backwards as an idea, but think that is still going to be deemed playing in the back of the stick. My idea, and I am not a FOGO parent or lacrosse expert, is why not design a flat head? One curved to a rounded point equally on both sides at the top of the head, and no one way curved rails. Pinch down on the side strung for play and carry. There is no rules on stringing a stick, and if a stick head is cut to have no true "side" kind of like an uncurved hockey stick, then you have a ubiquitous head.

Just an idea. Have no idea if it sounds stupid or not to the FOGO gurus here, but hopefully it can work for you guys. Good luck.


I heard that, interesting.

I also have a question:

Why not just change the rule so the boys face-off using the front of the stick to clamp, not the back. Would that not eliminate the need for the back of stick discussion all together, while keeping the same skill set intact? Or am I missing something?


Same poster again...my guess is that it would be hard for a fogo to pinch and hold a ball in the front of a stringed up curved head with curved rails. I am guessing that for the pinch and carry to be practical to apply, you'd need a flat head that is a ubiquitous design on both sides. If I kid goes to X with a head that cannot be distinguished on either side, there is no "back of the stick" for this design to disqualify the pinch and carry move. Again, just my guess and take with pounds of salt but it may be worth a try. Maybe try a crude attempt at home to take an old head, clip off the rails and melt the stick to a straight shape and have your sons give a try.

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Re: Faceoff Petition 2014
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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
I read about stringing a lacrosse head backwards as an idea, but think that is still going to be deemed playing in the back of the stick. My idea, and I am not a FOGO parent or lacrosse expert, is why not design a flat head? One curved to a rounded point equally on both sides at the top of the head, and no one way curved rails. Pinch down on the side strung for play and carry. There is no rules on stringing a stick, and if a stick head is cut to have no true "side" kind of like an uncurved hockey stick, then you have a ubiquitous head.

Just an idea. Have no idea if it sounds stupid or not to the FOGO gurus here, but hopefully it can work for you guys. Good luck.


I heard that, interesting.

I also have a question:

Why not just change the rule so the boys face-off using the front of the stick to clamp, not the back. Would that not eliminate the need for the back of stick discussion all together, while keeping the same skill set intact? Or am I missing something?


Same poster again...my guess is that it would be hard for a fogo to pinch and hold a ball in the front of a stringed up curved head with curved rails. I am guessing that for the pinch and carry to be practical to apply, you'd need a flat head that is a ubiquitous design on both sides. If I kid goes to X with a head that cannot be distinguished on either side, there is no "back of the stick" for this design to disqualify the pinch and carry move. Again, just my guess and take with pounds of salt but it may be worth a try. Maybe try a crude attempt at home to take an old head, clip off the rails and melt the stick to a straight shape and have your sons give a try.


I was thinking along these lines as well. Head with no "front" or "back". Here is the question, what denotes the front of the head? Is it the shape? Which your suggestion would solve, or the stringing? If it's the stringing, then any head strung has a denoted front and back deemed by the stringing. Too many amibiguities in the rule change and really no answers.

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Re: Faceoff Petition 2014
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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Like I said not angry at the rules, just don't like the attitude of the d-dag who feels the need but in with stupid comments. Go find another thread to insult people on.

I have changed my position on online internet petitions and apologize for my comments earlier making fun of them.

This article from USA today helped prove to me the power and usefulness of online petitions:

USA Today article

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Re: Faceoff Petition 2014
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After hearing the devestating news about the SWR football player dying following a head collision yesterday, I can't help but wonder if the new face-off rules are putting our face off athletes at an increased risk of these types of injuries. SCARY! Nice job rules committee looking after the safety of our sons!

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Re: Faceoff Petition 2014
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You are a self centered JERK

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
After hearing the devestating news about the SWR football player dying following a head collision yesterday, I can't help but wonder if the new face-off rules are putting our face off athletes at an increased risk of these types of injuries. SCARY! Nice job rules committee looking after the safety of our sons!


If you have a serious concern about this than you must be in favor of eliminating the face off.

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Re: Faceoff Petition 2014
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Wow a new low, using something like this, to promote yor cause.

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I don't understand the correlation?

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Wow a new low, using something like this, to promote yor cause.


Promoting safety of the players and trying to "use" a terrible trajedy to promote safer practices. You are a complete [lacrosse] for even suggesting anything else!

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Re: Faceoff Petition 2014
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wow, not cool at all trying to tie the two together. Absolute tragedy just occurred keep those affected in your thoughts.

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
I don't understand the correlation?


It's called head to head collision. Will certainly increase under new rules. Would hate to see a kid injured due to a rule change.

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Re: Faceoff Petition 2014
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Tasteless attempt to tie these two unrelated issues together. A new low.

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
wow, not cool at all trying to tie the two together. Absolute tragedy just occurred keep those affected in your thoughts.


And not helping prevent future injuries like this is not cool to you either? Safety rules in all HS Sports need to be re-examined so tragedies like this can be avoided.

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Re: Faceoff Petition 2014
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Thoughts and prayers to the family and SWR community

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Tasteless attempt to tie these two unrelated issues together. A new low.


Thing is, they are related. I cried when I heard what happened, The worst possible thing that could ever happen to a family. I'm sure HS football will look for ways to prevent these type of tragedies in the future. I also immediately thought of how my son has been put into a position of increased risk with respect to this type of injury, So yes I am very concerned, as should the parents of all face off specialists as well as middies. as the risk of head injury will now be increased. Sorry you are so angry at fogos to suggest anything else!

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Re: Faceoff Petition 2014
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How can you possibly connect the two? You're just shameless trying to further your cause after this unrelated tragedy... If i recall correctly in a lacrosse face off the two opponents are not charging at each other like rams at high speed...Please don't disrespect the community of SWR and even speak of the two in the same sentence. Pay your respects and be on your way

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Tasteless attempt to tie these two unrelated issues together. A new low.





"Creating this groundball scenario can generate a dangerous situation. It will promote more open field collisions which, in turn, mean more injuries and concussions at a time where safety amongst players is of the utmost concern. The ball that is indiscriminately rolled out produces a scenario where the faceoff man and the opposing wing are running at full speed to win the groundball for their team. The result of this situation will include violent collisions which will produce a higher percentage of high impact injuries. Such open field collisions will be similar in nature to the hit that James Pannell of UVA laid on Hopkins’ LSM Michael Pellegrino on March 22, 2014 where they were both running at full speed for the groundball at midfield. The result of this vicious hit was Michael Pellegrino being helped off the field by trainers. Again, the safety of the student-athlete should be of the highest priority and this rule will promote unnecessary collisions that compromise the safety of the player."



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Re: Faceoff Petition 2014
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Hey tool bag, you didn't write the post based on safety, you wrote the post because you think your face off specialist kid is getting screwed. Not nice man, period.

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Re: Faceoff Petition 2014
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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Hey tool bag, you didn't write the post based on safety, you wrote the post because you think your face off specialist kid is getting screwed. Not nice man, period.


So now you claim to know my motives? I can't be concerned about a rule that could increase my son's chance of concussion. I can't be pro active and look for ways to avoid concussion for my son and other boys? Did you know research has shown that concussions lead to increase chance of dementia later in life? Did you know this was the third HS boy to die this season due to head trauma? Sounds like you are the toolbag! We should not promote rules that increase risk of injury. PERIOD.

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Re: Faceoff Petition 2014
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I think we may be getting way off topic. The rule basically re-instituted what was the existing rule up until 3 years ago. The rules never expected someone carrying the ball while stuck in the back of their stick (not cradling). No one else on field is allowed to do that. Why should we expect a faceoff to be allowed to do it? Because they got good at it doesn't mean it was right and the reason they were taught it was not because of less injury but because there was no rule against it. Was their a huge amount of concussions caused by this for the last 25 years (up until three years ago)? Is the risk same or more than someone catching a pass and turning and getting coma slide hit in crease? There are plenty of areas in lacrosse where collisions occur.

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Re: Faceoff Petition 2014
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Originally Posted by Anonymous
I think we may be getting way off topic. The rule basically re-instituted what was the existing rule up until 3 years ago. The rules never expected someone carrying the ball while stuck in the back of their stick (not cradling). No one else on field is allowed to do that. Why should we expect a faceoff to be allowed to do it? Because they got good at it doesn't mean it was right and the reason they were taught it was not because of less injury but because there was no rule against it. Was their a huge amount of concussions caused by this for the last 25 years (up until three years ago)? Is the risk same or more than someone catching a pass and turning and getting coma slide hit in crease? There are plenty of areas in lacrosse where collisions occur.


But would you agree that returning to do called "old ways" does increase the risk of head collisions? Don't we have an obligation to minimize this risk if we can? Of course head collisions can and will happen in contact sports. Just think we should not change rules to increase this risk. If that makes me a toolbag, so be it.

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Re: Faceoff Petition 2014
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Originally Posted by Anonymous
I think we may be getting way off topic. The rule basically re-instituted what was the existing rule up until 3 years ago. The rules never expected someone carrying the ball while stuck in the back of their stick (not cradling). No one else on field is allowed to do that. Why should we expect a faceoff to be allowed to do it? Because they got good at it doesn't mean it was right and the reason they were taught it was not because of less injury but because there was no rule against it. Was their a huge amount of concussions caused by this for the last 25 years (up until three years ago)? Is the risk same or more than someone catching a pass and turning and getting coma slide hit in crease? There are plenty of areas in lacrosse where collisions occur.

Well thought out note. I agree with all oyour points except I thought the topic was internet petitions and their ability to shape future legislative decisions in lacrosse.

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Re: Faceoff Petition 2014
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You gave the example of Panell hitting Pelligrino in the open field going after GB. Not even close to a faceoff situation. Please give it a rest already......

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
You gave the example of Panell hitting Pelligrino in the open field going after GB. Not even close to a faceoff situation. Please give it a rest already......


Genius, can't give a specific example of a collision due to the change in rules, yet. Guess why?

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Re: Faceoff Petition 2014
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Now go in backyard and teach your kid to cradle, dodge, shoot, get GB's, play defense run up and down the field... and guess what ??????????? You will have yourself a full fledged lacrosse player !!!!

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Now go in backyard and teach your kid to cradle, dodge, shoot, get GB's, play defense run up and down the field... and guess what ??????????? You will have yourself a full fledged lacrosse player !!!!


Hahahaha sorry you are so jealous! My son does all that plus excels at new rules, old rules, makes no diff because He is naturally talented and puts the time in. Probably explains his full ride to a top program. You should stop complaining and whining here and get your son some more training.

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Re: Faceoff Petition 2014
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I know u are but what am I...

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
I think we may be getting way off topic. The rule basically re-instituted what was the existing rule up until 3 years ago. The rules never expected someone carrying the ball while stuck in the back of their stick (not cradling). No one else on field is allowed to do that. Why should we expect a faceoff to be allowed to do it? Because they got good at it doesn't mean it was right and the reason they were taught it was not because of less injury but because there was no rule against it. Was their a huge amount of concussions caused by this for the last 25 years (up until three years ago)? Is the risk same or more than someone catching a pass and turning and getting coma slide hit in crease? There are plenty of areas in lacrosse where collisions occur.


But would you agree that returning to do called "old ways" does increase the risk of head collisions? Don't we have an obligation to minimize this risk if we can? Of course head collisions can and will happen in contact sports. Just think we should not change rules to increase this risk. If that makes me a toolbag, so be it.


I don't think you're a toolbag. And I Hate the use of that word/phrase, especially in this anonymous field of BS.

That said, prior to 3 or 4 years ago, when the NCAA approved the new stick design technology, NOBODY, could pinch/pop&cradle the ball backwards! Not just face off guys, but now any player can "pinch & scoop" with the new technology, thereby eliminating the ground ball scrum. One of, if not THE greatest battles in the game of lacrosse.

For all of those young face off kids (even the ones being recruited), DO NOT worry. Keep perfecting your craft.

Show me the evidence of "old school" face-off guys getting a boatload of concussions and then I will start believing the argument.

Until then, which is probably never, you just come off as ignorant and self-centered.

The face-off moves to clamp & rake, or rake right away, or to slide & clamp, or to pop it when facing a great clamper, were all moves in the "traditional" face-off players arsenal.

The ONLY thing that changed in the last few years has been the stick technology that allows players to "pinch & pop" and then cradle the ball "backwards". This was NEVER the intention of the rules committee.

The "old rules" are still the rules. You cannot hit a face-off player coming in off of the wing position if the player is still scrumming for the ball.


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Re: Faceoff Petition 2014
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Here we go with the full ride nonsense again. People this is not football or basketball. Truthfully...your son did not get a FULL ride admit it. It's ok to be proud of some athletic $ but don't say full ride for lax. It does not happen. Especially to face off kids.

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Here we go with the full ride nonsense again. People this is not football or basketball. Truthfully...your son did not get a FULL ride admit it. It's ok to be proud of some athletic $ but don't say full ride for lax. It does not happen. Especially to face off kids.


Ok, we have to pay room and board. Other schools have offered to top this but he is happy with choice and will sign letter shortly. FACT. Whether you want to believe it or not. I know other top kids getting same.

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Here we go with the full ride nonsense again. People this is not football or basketball. Truthfully...your son did not get a FULL ride admit it. It's ok to be proud of some athletic $ but don't say full ride for lax. It does not happen. Especially to face off kids.


Ok, we have to pay room and board. Other schools have offered to top this but he is happy with choice and will sign letter shortly. FACT. Whether you want to believe it or not. I know other top kids getting same.


But you are getting academic money correct ?

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Re: Faceoff Petition 2014
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Another FULL RIDE......Yea ok.

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
I think we may be getting way off topic. The rule basically re-instituted what was the existing rule up until 3 years ago. The rules never expected someone carrying the ball while stuck in the back of their stick (not cradling). No one else on field is allowed to do that. Why should we expect a faceoff to be allowed to do it? Because they got good at it doesn't mean it was right and the reason they were taught it was not because of less injury but because there was no rule against it. Was their a huge amount of concussions caused by this for the last 25 years (up until three years ago)? Is the risk same or more than someone catching a pass and turning and getting coma slide hit in crease? There are plenty of areas in lacrosse where collisions occur.


But would you agree that returning to do called "old ways" does increase the risk of head collisions? Don't we have an obligation to minimize this risk if we can? Of course head collisions can and will happen in contact sports. Just think we should not change rules to increase this risk. If that makes me a toolbag, so be it.


I don't think you're a toolbag. And I Hate the use of that word/phrase, especially in this anonymous field of BS.

That said, prior to 3 or 4 years ago, when the NCAA approved the new stick design technology, NOBODY, could pinch/pop&cradle the ball backwards! Not just face off guys, but now any player can "pinch & scoop" with the new technology, thereby eliminating the ground ball scrum. One of, if not THE greatest battles in the game of lacrosse.

For all of those young face off kids (even the ones being recruited), DO NOT worry. Keep perfecting your craft.

Show me the evidence of "old school" face-off guys getting a boatload of concussions and then I will start believing the argument.

Until then, which is probably never, you just come off as ignorant and self-centered.

The face-off moves to clamp & rake, or rake right away, or to slide & clamp, or to pop it when facing a great clamper, were all moves in the "traditional" face-off players arsenal.

The ONLY thing that changed in the last few years has been the stick technology that allows players to "pinch & pop" and then cradle the ball "backwards". This was NEVER the intention of the rules committee.

The "old rules" are still the rules. You cannot hit a face-off player coming in off of the wing position if the player is still scrumming for the ball.



But you never really answered the question. Will the rule change inctease the risk of head collisions? If the answer is yes, there is nothing left to debate!

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Re: Faceoff Petition 2014
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If there is such a thing as a lacrosse dad on the sidelines of events or on message boards who is not letting everyone know his kid is on a full ride, I have not met him yet.

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
don't sign - rule change is awesome


Too late done by nearly 1000 so far, loser go cry somewhere else

I really think you are all missing the point so I went back and pulled the above from the first page of this thread. Clearly the original intent of this discussion was to engage in a frank discourse over the strengths and merits of internet petitions. The 2nd poster above articulates a clear message that 1,000 electonic signatures had be fostered. He implies this act of signature gathering will inflict tears of pain upon the first poster. I have tried to point out repeatedly that internet petitions are not quite so powerful as to bring a grown man to tears. This was of course until I read the laser cat article from USA Today.

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All these years and I don't know anyone with a full ride for lax. I know plenty that when they combined the athletic $, the merit $ and the need based aid, they didn't have to pay anything to go to school. If that is considered a full ride by you, fine and congratulations. When the rest of the sports world hears full ride, the think all the $ is athletic only.

If you are lucky enough to have received a full ride for athletics, congratulations but it is far from normal.

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Here we go with the full ride nonsense again. People this is not football or basketball. Truthfully...your son did not get a FULL ride admit it. It's ok to be proud of some athletic $ but don't say full ride for lax. It does not happen. Especially to face off kids.


Ok, we have to pay room and board. Other schools have offered to top this but he is happy with choice and will sign letter shortly. FACT. Whether you want to believe it or not. I know other top kids getting same.
u

But you are getting academic money correct ?


NOPE, All money is athletic, part of the reason we chose school

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Another FULL RIDE......Yea ok.


Right 30 kids on the team and you are getting a full? And paying room and board on a $40k school would mean he got .75. That would still be high but could be possible

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