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College, Coaches, Recruitment : 2010-2011 #57
11/04/10 01:24 PM
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BOTC Industries is pleased to be able to offer our college recruitment board as a service to the lacrosse community. Please feel free to ask questions about the college process as it relates to academics, lacrosse, or both.

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Re: College, Coaches, Recruitment : 2010-2011 [Re: BoardLord] #66
11/06/10 11:43 AM
11/06/10 11:43 AM

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Lacrosse seems to have many showcase events that are pick-up teams meaning players seem to do more picking and choosing for their individual events. (As opposed to soccer where the decisions are more made on a team level for showcasing.)

When profiles are handed out, is there any type of team summary or is it more a collection of individual players? How does the lacrosse head coach manage to represent these players?

Re: College, Coaches, Recruitment : 2010-2011 [Re: Anonymous] #70
11/07/10 08:54 AM
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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Lacrosse seems to have many showcase events that are pick-up teams meaning players seem to do more picking and choosing for their individual events.
BOTC Industries points out that most showcase events will quote a full team price (typically in the $1200-$1400 range), but also a single day and multiday price for individual "free-agent" players. The daily fee is typically 10-15% of the team price while the two-day fee will be approximately 20% of the team fee.

Originally Posted by Anonymous
(As opposed to soccer where the decisions are more made on a team level for showcasing.)
Soccer sees much more structure in terms of players being loaned from team-to-team even for a showcase event between passes, rosters, and player releases. In lacrosse, this practice is more, well, lax. This also helps to explain why several lacrosse clubs are accused of playing "down" in tournaments to secure wins.

Originally Posted by Anonymous
When profiles are handed out, is there any type of team summary or is it more a collection of individual players? How does the lacrosse head coach manage to represent these players?
Most clubs that develop profiles will also "own" those profiles from the standpoint of presenting the data. Each profile will typically stand on its own.

Thanks for your question and your interest. Please continue to let others know about our new Long Island Lacrosse Message Board, www.backofthecage.com, and our College Forum.

Re: College, Coaches, Recruitment : 2010-2011 [Re: BoardLord] #71
11/07/10 09:17 AM
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But in Lacrosse you have more of an opportunity to showcase your talents than soccer. All summer you can be playing in showcase college tourneys where coaches are present. You do not have this benefit if you are a good soccer player other than being on the state team. This past summer my daughter went to 5 college showcase tournaments, one she did not need to represent her club team but anyone could attend. Much more exposure than soccer for same age groups.

Re: College, Coaches, Recruitment : 2010-2011 [Re: Anonymous] #72
11/07/10 09:47 AM
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Originally Posted by Anonymous
But in Lacrosse you have more of an opportunity to showcase your talents than soccer. All summer you can be playing in showcase college tourneys where coaches are present. You do not have this benefit if you are a good soccer player other than being on the state team. This past summer my daughter went to 5 college showcase tournaments, one she did not need to represent her club team but anyone could attend. Much more exposure than soccer for same age groups.
Interesting point about the number of tournaments as this is certainly the case. Consider the upcoming November lacrosse showcases where there are competing events each weekend. Coaching attendance is being divided so players need to be very aware of where their target coaches/schools are attending tournaments.

In soccer, there are very focused events that can attract multiple hundreds of schools in a single weekend. With lacrosse, the number of focused weekends is greatly reduced. This puts more responsibility on the player to research attendance from target schools.

So, in terms of more exposure, you attend more events in lacrosse, but has it been generated more coaching eyes on players overall compared to soccer or any other sport? The number of tournaments drives up the individual family's cost to the benefit of the hosting organizations. Would you agree?

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Re: College, Coaches, Recruitment : 2010-2011 [Re: BoardLord] #73
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You pay individually for each tourney, usually $75 to $100 per tourney. sometimes less depending. If you are 10th or 11th grade you e-mail the coach to let her know where you will be. Another great opportunity I see in lax but not in soccer are the number of camps you can go to all throughout the fall and spring held at colleges - taught by college coaches. I dont see the Long island Colleges, of which there are many, running these camps for soccer.

Re: College, Coaches, Recruitment : 2010-2011 [Re: BoardLord] #79
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Lacrosse clearly has more tournaments, but there is no real organized league structure on a weekly basis which makes the tournaments as the only game-play option. (This all means significantly more cost than one would see with other sports, like soccer, that have a more formal league structure in place.)

College camps in soccer are generally held in the June/July timeframes similar to scholastic lacrosse. The Long Island colleges/universities do run summer camps (Adelphi, Hofstra to name two).

The LAX recruitment game via camps on Long Island tends to be much less noticed since Long Island has a very captive audience. College coaches can get to a Long Island lacrosse event with relative ease - and given that the rosters are mostly Long Island based, is a camp really needed on Long Island to identify talent?

Re: College, Coaches, Recruitment : 2010-2011 [Re: BoardLord] #80
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On another discussion forum, there seems to be little real education about the NCAA Recruiting process and what happens with coaching engagement. Some of the discussion threads appear below.

Originally Posted by "Anonymous Poster #1"
Some schools do honor their verbal commitments to these high school kids, even if the head coach moves along ... There are enough variables to consider without adding the the job-security status of the coach making the offer. ... If that's the case, why would a ... recruit stop listening to every coach who calls?
The question you should be asking is "why would any sophomore or junior year HIgh School student stop listening to other offers?" Now, many schools that change head coaches will honor prior commitments, but it is not written in stone and is not a guarantee.

Remember that a head coaching change is usually about changing some major aspect of the program. When that program shift takes place, your son or daughter might not be a fit with the new coach's system. Give this some very careful thought as your child might be moving hundreds or thousands of miles from home only to find that they have gone from star recruit to the bench not having done anything themselves.

Originally Posted by "Anonymous Poster #2"
If you don't consider the job security of the coach or his intentions you are making a big mistake
Absolutely true statement. The number one rule that I have told my premier level soccer and lacrosse players is the same : do NOT choose a college or university because you "liked" the coach. Yes, not liking a coach is a reason NOT to attend, but liking a coach is NOT a reason attend! Coaches move. It is a job. When that coach moves, you had better be 110% sure that the college and majors offered (in addition to academics/social environments) are what your are seeking from your collegiate career.

Think of it this way : college is 168 hours per week for 15 straight weeks. You will spend about 12-15 hours per week in team based activities. That leaves an awful lot of other hours to fill your week.

Re: College, Coaches, Recruitment : 2010-2011 [Re: CageSage] #81
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Why would any player verbally commit early and not keep listening to other offers?

Re: College, Coaches, Recruitment : 2010-2011 [Re: Anonymous] #82
11/09/10 07:50 AM
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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Why would any player verbally commit early and not keep listening to other offers?
Establishing a verbal commitment does nothing but secure a roster spot and the player/family should keep an open ear for other and potentially better offers. Typically, a college coach who is able to put their very best offer on the table early will keep the family engaged and will end the college search process.

A verbal commitment is not binding from either side, but BOTC Industries has always recommended that the player tell a college coach immediately when a university has been ruled out. Remember that roster spot (and money) can then go to another player interested in attending that institution.

The reason to accept an offer early without money would be where a candidate is in the bottom quartile of the university's typical freshman year acceptance pool. In these situations, the head lacrosse coach might have a certain number of exemptions available to hand-selected candidates. Armed with an exemption, the coach can walk the student through the entire admissions process including discussions with financial aid. Again, this depends on the player's passion for the school, academics, and athletics over and above other financial considerations.

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Re: College, Coaches, Recruitment : 2010-2011 [Re: BoardLord] #100
11/11/10 01:53 PM
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Originally Posted by macine15
With all the NLIs being signed now, I have a question. Are the students signing NLIs getting full scholarships?
Let's do some arithmetic and answer the question exclusively in the context of men's and women's Division I and Division II programs. Scholarship count data for lacrosse programs follows :

NCAA D1 Sport ...... Men's Women's
Lacrosse ........... 12.6 / 12.0

NCAA D2 Sport ...... Men's Women's
Lacrosse ........... 10.8 / 9.9


Now, with the average roster holding 24-26 players, very clearly a straight division shows you that on average, each player would receive at most 0.5 of a scholarship.

Originally Posted by Anonymous
If you do sign a NLI and are not receiving a full scholarship do you know how much academic or other financial aid you will be getting at the time of signing?
A player signing an NLI or National Letter of Intent is effectively signing the contract that disclosed all of the financial terms for the upcoming academic year. Generally, all financial data will be included in such an arrangement, but this is not required by the NCAA. As a result, the final financial disclosure process might vary slightly by university.

Originally Posted by Anonymous
For example, if a private school is $40K and a student gets a $10K athletic scholarship, that's nice, but there is still a huge gap to fill.
This is a 0.25 ... or one-quarter ... scholarship and would be a fairly standard award for a entering student-athlete. Think of it this way : If there are 12.0 scholarships (maximum, women's Division I), on average that would mean 3.0 scholarships per class year. Now, upper classmen will typically get slightly more money over time so suppose there are 2.0 scholarships available for entering freshmen. If eight recruits are brought into the campus all with equal footing, that will result in 0.25 scholarships per player.

Originally Posted by Anonymous
I am thinking that if this happened to our own family, my child would not be able to commit to a school without knowing the final cost.
BOTC Industries strongly advises you to engage the college coach once a roster spot has been allocated to your child to explain your financial situation and ask that the coach introduce you to the college's financial aid department for an early assessment of your case. Be prepared to have all of the previous tax year's information, savings/assets data, and your child's academic transcript at the ready for that meeting. All of these documents will be required.

Re: College, Coaches, Recruitment : 2010-2011 [Re: BoardLord] #144
11/19/10 02:54 PM
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Look at the Philly Showcase taking place this weekend. One big difference between lacrosse showcasing and soccer showcasing is that lacrosse showcases seem to focus on players registering for pick-up games. Soccer showcases are centered on team registrations. Which method is better? Are there different tournaments for full team registrations?

Re: College, Coaches, Recruitment : 2010-2011 [Re: Anonymous] #324
01/19/11 01:57 PM
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My daughter actually had a friend that verbally committed to a school in junior year (great school, but not the dream school). Meanwhile, her dream school was perfect in every way, except for the relationship with the coach.

Before NLIs were signed, her friend's dream school had a new coach, who was previously recruiting her at another school. She had the opportunity to change her mind, as now the dream school was perfect in every way, but felt she needed to do the honorable thing and keep her verbal committment to the "great" but not dream school.

How did it work out??? Not sure ... just a freshman and lax season hasnt started yet, so time will tell. Every situation and circumstance is different, and every person handles things in their life differently. I always say things happen for a reason.

Re: College, Coaches, Recruitment : 2010-2011 [Re: BoardLord] #325
01/19/11 02:00 PM
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D1 coaches recruit on average 7 to 9 players a year women Now 10 to 14 + men. Lets do the math. Women have 12 scholarships men 12.6 these numbers are for the whole squad.

Top 10 D1 women ranked teams will take 7 to 9 recruits per school per year. That's 70 to 90 recruits total for all top 10 teams. If a top 10 coach wants say 9 typically 2 attack 4 mids 2 defense 1 goal every year.

How will the scholarship money be distributed? A womens fully funded coach has 3 scholarships a year on average to divide , therefore that's a 33% average scholarship per recruit.
Some schools give all the same 33%, most rate recruits in tiers.

Tier 1 and 2 kids visit soon after September 1 of junior year. Only a coaches top two or three recruits are offered a specific scholarship amount 33% to 100%( yes it does happen).
Realize for the top ten schools this may be 30 to 60 kids in the country total. Not inside lacrosse rank what the coaches want. The rest get offered less or are put on hold until the smoke clears and everyone sees who commits to who. Now these are verbals and they do limit a coach from getting another player if they verbal to one of these early commits. Typically transcripts are reviewed and a target SAT is discussed. Maintain the status quo grade wise and no other issues is also assumed.

Now who's at risk here ? Both parties. The kid has to hit the SAT # and the coach has to hope the kid keeps their commitment.
The recruit could find themselves in March of the senior year desperately trying to hit the SAT number. The coach could lose a kid senior year and have passed up on other recruits.

Let assume each top 10 team get 2 of these early cant miss studs at 50% scholar hip, whats left? 2 scholarships 6 or 8 kids.

Now if kids perform they can get more year by year but if they don't they can be reduced.

Some kids do get multi year deals.

Many kids get nothing but get in a much better school then they would have without lax.

Some families, money is no object, just get my kid into Princeton. This is a whole other system where the average kid may need 1300 on the SAT.

Three kids could need 1500 another 1300 another 1200. Guess who gets in with a lower SAT? The better player.

After all the initial kids commit in my previous scenario, round two begins in January junior year forward. This is when the coaches round out the class with the 2 or less remaining scholarships for the 6 or 8 remaining recruits.

I have never heard a top D1 team re neg if the kid gets the SAT # agreed upon, maintains grades, and does not get in trouble.

Re: College, Coaches, Recruitment : 2010-2011 [Re: Anonymous] #326
01/19/11 02:02 PM
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Having been through this with a daughter recruited at ACC, IVY and a few others, what you have stated is remarkably close to our experience. The coaches were also all REALLY professional. The one in question on this thread could not have been more above board and honest. From what I saw, that 1200 SAT kid at an ivy will only work if there is another kid in the class with a much higher SAT. It's a blended class ranking, with some minimum floor.

Money is typically 1/3 to start and moves up, as does the firmness of the commitment, depending on where your daughter ranks in that class. Parents should feel free to tactfully ask the coach-where does jenny, jane, jill, rank in your class, and then adjust expectations and strategies accordingly. All of the coaches I met were happy to talk plainly.

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