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Re: For the Love of the Game Lacrosse
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Originally Posted by Anonymous
I think they were one of the teams on Saturday. My sons team played on Sunday and we went undefeated for 91. But, all of the tough teams played on Saturday, such as Outlaws, Radiers, Express, etc. So they must have had some competition because I recall asking my sons coach what is with the lack of competition and he said all of the tough teams play on Saturday.


Why did 91 not get to play the tougher teams? They usually do- no?

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
I think they were one of the teams on Saturday. My sons team played on Sunday and we went undefeated for 91. But, all of the tough teams played on Saturday, such as Outlaws, Radiers, Express, etc. So they must have had some competition because I recall asking my sons coach what is with the lack of competition and he said all of the tough teams play on Saturday.


Why did 91 not get to play the tougher teams? They usually do- no?



91 2018 Orange wasn't at same tourney as fl$

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How did the fl$ 2015 boys do in the Blue & Gold Hofstra tournament? If they haven't lost too many kids I would guess they did pretty well. Not sure if Express Orange was there.

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Express 2018 Orange was not at the same tournament either. Who did the 2018 fl$ play?This being the first year of this fl$ team it was formed with players from other teams that left.Many of them making the B teams at other organizations.I am sure you will see this team grown and drop some of these players when the get a few more to leave or get cut from the A team from elsewhere.

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Express 2018 Orange was not at the same tournament either. Who did the 2018 fl$ play?This being the first year of this fl$ team it was formed with players from other teams that left.Many of them making the B teams at other organizations.I am sure you will see this team grown and drop some of these players when the get a few more to leave or get cut from the A team from elsewhere.


Not sure where your info is coming from? There are a number of kids on this 2018 team that played on Express Orange, 91 Orange and Team LI A team last year. As well as a couple that played up on fl$ 2017 team last year. Along with others from Cold Spring, GC and Manhassett. Not exactly B team kids. This is not a crazy over the top win at all cost team. It's much more about individual developement and being a team. fl$ is about having the kids grow as players at this age.(more intense as they get older) They are much more even handed about playing time. Not as concerned about winning the Summer Lax Blast 6th grade "made up" Championship. Will they beat 91 or Express? Who cares, it's 6th grade! Will they be better players and not burnt out? Absolutely! Will some of the best 2018 players from 91 and Express try out next year for fl$? YES.
Here's a little education for you. If you think you're son is showing up at a tryout for Express or 91 with 150++ other kids and making one of their 2018 Orange teams, think again. It is a fact, any kid who made one of those teams this year (2018)who was not on the team last year was either asked before the tryout to play, or had some other in. These two teams in particular started looking at, and approching kids for this year, before thier summer seasons where even over last year.

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Re: For the Love of the Game Lacrosse
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Originally Posted by Anonymous


Here's a little education for you. If you think you're son is showing up at a tryout for Express or 91 with 150++ other kids and making one of their 2018 Orange teams, think again. It is a fact, any kid who made one of those teams this year (2018)who was not on the team last year was either asked before the tryout to play, or had some other in. These two teams in particular started looking at, and approching kids for this year, before thier summer seasons where even over last year.


My son (2018) did not play for express or 91 last year and had the exact same connections both of them as well as fl$ and that was none, except for knowing town friends on 91 and express, we never got recruited or contacted by anybody in the organization, but since he is just an OK player I would have been shocked if anybody did reach out to us.

my son wanted to try out for all three teams and that was the plan until he made express orange, once he made that team we decided not to try for the others because this was were he wanted to play, so far we could not be happier, great kids, great parents and great coaching. Honestly if 91 or fl$ tryout had been first we would have tried out and if he made one of those teams he probably would have played there but we are so happy that it worked out the way it did. so please don't state your opinion as "FACT" it is just an opinion like everybody else.

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous


Here's a little education for you. If you think you're son is showing up at a tryout for Express or 91 with 150++ other kids and making one of their 2018 Orange teams, think again. It is a fact, any kid who made one of those teams this year (2018)who was not on the team last year was either asked before the tryout to play, or had some other in. These two teams in particular started looking at, and approching kids for this year, before thier summer seasons where even over last year.


My son (2018) did not play for express or 91 last year and had the exact same connections both of them as well as fl$ and that was none, except for knowing town friends on 91 and express, we never got recruited or contacted by anybody in the organization, but since he is just an OK player I would have been shocked if anybody did reach out to us.

my son wanted to try out for all three teams and that was the plan until he made express orange, once he made that team we decided not to try for the others because this was were he wanted to play, so far we could not be happier, great kids, great parents and great coaching. Honestly if 91 or fl$ tryout had been first we would have tried out and if he made one of those teams he probably would have played there but we are so happy that it worked out the way it did. so please don't state your opinion as "FACT" it is just an opinion like everybody else.


Your son, who you say is just "ok" and he made 2018 Orange?? That's amazing... Best of luck, I stand corrected.

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His being OK was not the point, my point was that not every kid was recruited as you said as fact, and as far as my kid being just OK, he is 11 and they all are OK. he is also OK in school at xbox and soccer, he is 11 and it is hard to imagine any kid being considered anything but OK.

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I would put many express and 91 B teams against most clubs A teams and have very competetive games. Being what you call a B team kid is not as terrible as you guys make it sound. These kids are 11 for christs sake..get a grip on your uber vicarious living through your children. My sons B team has tons of fun, and at this age that is all that matters isn't it? Or am I wrong?

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Gents relax. I'm on your side. I was just responding to the guy who was bad mouthing the fl$ team. I got a little fired up. If your son made the Orange exp team, congrats. Excellent coaching, might be best 6th grade team anywhere. B team guy, no disrespect. This whole summer thing should be about kids getting better at the sport they love, A or B its all good. Like I said above, its 6th grade. Who cares?

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Express 2018 Orange was not at the same tournament either. Who did the 2018 fl$ play?This being the first year of this fl$ team it was formed with players from other teams that left.Many of them making the B teams at other organizations.I am sure you will see this team grown and drop some of these players when the get a few more to leave or get cut from the A team from elsewhere.

I was not bad mouthing the team at all!Fact, this is the first year fl$ of this team because of the age group.So makes sense that it is made up of some players from other teams. I happen to know many of the kids and parents and my son also tried out and made the team....so thats where my info came from!! Fact...this team will have many more players come from other programs in the future,it is the nature of the process players leave and tryout and move for various reasons.

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I think he was talking about Oyster Bay from 2011 for 2016.

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yes because 91 plays in the A division while fl$ plays in AA

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
yes because 91 plays in the A division while fl$ plays in AA


AA brackets are fairly new to the scene. Not all tournaments use the AA rating but it is catching on. Why not? Isn't 11 louder than 10?

Team 91 Orange teams play in the same brackets as Express Orange, Outlaws Black and fl$ so I don't understand your comment.

How did fl$ do at the Fall Haverford Tournament this weekend?

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Anybody know when the fl$ 2015 roster will be posted? I don't have a son on the team but I'd like to see the names. All of the other teams are posted so hopefully this one will be too. Thanks.

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Re: For the Love of the Game Lacrosse
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2015 roster is posted on the fl$ webiste

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fl$ 9th/10th graders are at the Tri-State Holiday Shoot-Out Christmas Tournament in Hightstown, N.J. Also competing in the 9th-10th grade tourney are two teams each from Tri-State and the Duke’s Lacrosse Club (PA) as well as the Hermits (St. Augustine, NJ).

Teams
A- Tri-State 1 (Red)
B- Dukes Blue
C- Dukes Green
D- Tri-State 2 (Green)
E- Hermits
F- fl$

Wednesday’s Games
11:00 AM- Tri-State 2 vs. Hermits
11:35 AM- Tri-State 1 vs. Tri-State 2
12:10 PM- Dukes Green vs. Hermits
12:45 PM – Dukes Blue vs. Tri-State 2
1:20 PM – fl$ vs. Tri-State 1
1:55 PM – Dukes Green vs. Tri-State 2
2:30 PM- Dukes Blue vs. fl$
3:05 PM- Dukes Green vs. Tri-State 1
3:40 PM- Dukes Blue vs. Hermits
4:15 PM – Dukes Green vs. fl$
4:50 PM – Dukes Blue vs. Tri-State 1
5:25 PM- fl$ vs. Hermits

Thursday – Playoffs
10:00AM- GAME 1- SEED 4 V SEED 5
10:35 – GAME 2-SEED 3 V SEED 6
11:10 – LOSER GAME1 V LOSER GAME 2
11:45- WINNER GAME 1 V 1 SEED
12:20PM- WINNER GAME 2 V 2 SEED
12:55 – CHAMPIONSHIP GAME

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scores? - 2017 also in NJ - 3-0 beat express 11-1

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Calm down, it was the Express E team.

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I just found out that on top of the $1700 fee to fl$, we have to pay another fee for each of the 4 summer tournaments. Another $350. Are these guys kidding? What am I paying $1700 for???? fl$ is a rip off!

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Well, I think you guys did have "one" practice so far in 2012...

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Re: For the Love of the Game Lacrosse
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Originally Posted by Anonymous
I just found out that on top of the $1700 fee to fl$, we have to pay another fee for each of the 4 summer tournaments. Another $350. Are these guys kidding? What am I paying $1700 for???? fl$ is a rip off!


You are obviously not part of fl$ (nor am I)and have way too much time on your hands.

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Re: For the Love of the Game Lacrosse
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HUH?

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
HUH?


I don't believe anyone involved with fl$ is ignorant to the fact that tournament fees are NOT included in the $1,700.00. They are doing more than 4 tournaments and it is going to cost way more than $350.00.

If you think fl$ is a rip off, fine. Just make a case with facts so it's credible.

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
I just found out that on top of the $1700 fee to fl$, we have to pay another fee for each of the 4 summer tournaments. Another $350. Are these guys kidding? What am I paying $1700 for???? fl$ is a rip off!


I find it amazing that someone like Lacrosse Magazine would highlight MW as someone who is changing youth sports "for the better." MW claims in the article that he "he didn't like what was going on in the pay for play model" and that is why he started fl$. Are you kidding me? You are the "pay for play" model. You took money form "key contributors" and put their kids on teams when other more talented kids got cut. You are the most expensive "pay for play" program on Long Island.

MW "doesn't believe in travel lacrosse until the 7th grade." This is such hypocritical garbage. What about your teams below 7th grade? What about fl$ lite?

MW also wants to take credit for his "charity" work done for the Roosevelt program. Maybe lacrosse magazine should check with it's own local board at the Long Island Metropolitan Lacrosse Foundation to see who really helped the Roosevelt kids. Charlie Russo is the person who really helped Roosevelt.

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Re: For the Love of the Game Lacrosse
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BOTC felt it would be appropriate to reproduce the text of the full article regarding Mike Winkoff to provide a fair and balanced view. The article highlights Mr. Winkoff as one of the Top Ten people in the Lacrosse Community making a difference.

Reprinted from Lacrosse Magazine, January 2012, Page 59

MIKE WINKOFF, Age 50
Resides in Massapequa, N.Y.
Affiliations : For the Love of the Game, Lax4All
Day Job : Owner, Pioneer Mortgage Network, Inc.

Roosevelt (N.Y.) High School graduated notables like NBA Hall of Famer Julius Erving, shock jock Howard Stern, comedian and actor Eddie Murphy and hip hop artist Busta Rhymes. The redominantly black Long Island school has had its share of standouts in football, baseball and track and field — but never lacrosse.

Mike Winkoff hopes to change that. Roosevelt is at the center of his not-for profit Lax4All program that spawned in 2009 out of For the Love of the Game, the select organization he formed in 2006.

“I watched my son play football against Roosevelt,” Winkoff said. “I thought, ‘Wouldn’t it be great if these kids had the opportunity to play lacrosse?’” Winkoff’s son Corey rose through the lacrosse ranks and graduated from Penn last year second among the school’s all-time assists leaders. But not
everyone gets the same opportunities.

“I didn’t like what was going on with pay for-play,” Winkoff said. “I got out when Corey made the Empire team. We started our own program.”

Winkoff’s team played with L.I. Select on its uniforms for one season, but changed them to fl$ to reflect its true purpose. fl$ fields top teams — they won the US Lacrosse U15 Boys’ National Championship last year — but also focuses on off-field development.

“It’s based in education,” Winkoff said. “We give them tutoring. They must do community service.” fl$ has grown from three teams in 2006 to six boys’ and five girls’ teams from seventh grade to rising seniors.

Such opportunities did not exist in Roosevelt before Winkoff created Lax4All. It started modestly with one PAL team, and then grew to two PAL teams in 2010. A middle school team formed last year, and a JV team is in the works. Winkoff envisions a varsity team in the foreseeable future. “We’re trying to do this throughout the country,” he said. “We want to not just do it in African-American communities, but in communities that don’t have the game. These kids love it.”

This summer, Winkoff will unveil his newest youth program, fl$ Lite. Players cut from youth travel teams will receive qualified coaching and strong competition. “We don’t believe you should start playing travel until seventh grade,” Winkoff said. “They’ll all play.”

In four decades coaching, Winkoff has seen the opportunities lacrosse brings if people are given chances to play. “It makes you grow when you work with them,” Winkoff said. “I’ve always had the passion because I love coaching kids.”

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Here's the facts:
-This is our first year on fl$
-I have no axe to grind with fl$ or the staff (i'm not an LI Express spy)
-Never had to pay additional tournament fees (other than travel and hotels of course) on previous teams.
-No mention of additional fees at sign up (Find it on website if you can)
In fact at website under "fl$ Experience" includes at least 4 tournaments along with all the free swag No mention of additional fees Go ahead and look http://www.leaguelineup.com/newsitem.asp?url=4theloveofthegame&itemid=2873337.

So to keep it simple
!. fl$ costs more than any other team +
2. Tournament fees not included and not made known ahead of time=
3. fl$ is a rip off (at least compared to every other team on LI)

Is that more credible?

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
So to keep it simple
!. fl$ costs more than any other team +
2. Tournament fees not included and not made known ahead of time=
3. fl$ is a rip off (at least compared to every other team on LI)

Is that more credible?
Credible is doing a comparison against another club with an apples-to-apples, line by line comparison. It is completely unfair to suggest that a program that is more expensive is a "rip off". Similarly, you should be comfortable asking how much the program costs "all in".

This is one of the beauties of BOTC in that we allow for these types of consumer cost comparisons to be done in the open for the benefit of the parents purchasing these services.

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Originally Posted by CageSage
“I didn’t like what was going on with pay for-play,” Winkoff said. “I got out when Corey made the Empire team. We started our own program.”


he says he didn't like what was going on with pay for play so he started an overpay for play organization? I am not part of fl$ and everybody that I know that is involved with fl$ loves the team and the organization but I don't get what he didn't like about what was going on with pay for play, was it that they they didn't charge enough? or that people don't know how to pick there own charities to donate to and that by paying all this money to fl$ they can have Mr. Winkoff decide what charities needs your donation?

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Ok if you don't like the term "rip off" , how about "disproportionally high priced compared to the relevant market for youth lacrosse travel teams in the LI area" and "lacks full disclosure in it's pricing" ?

Does that display sufficient amount of nuance in my choice of language?

Let others be the judge, but I think "rip off" captures it rather succinctly.

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Here's the facts:
-This is our first year on fl$
-I have no axe to grind with fl$ or the staff (i'm not an LI Express spy)
-Never had to pay additional tournament fees (other than travel and hotels of course) on previous teams.
-No mention of additional fees at sign up (Find it on website if you can)
In fact at website under "fl$ Experience" includes at least 4 tournaments along with all the free swag No mention of additional fees Go ahead and look http://www.leaguelineup.com/newsitem.asp?url=4theloveofthegame&itemid=2873337.

So to keep it simple
!. fl$ costs more than any other team +
2. Tournament fees not included and not made known ahead of time=
3. fl$ is a rip off (at least compared to every other team on LI)

Is that more credible?


Sorry you did not see it coming. I really just don't know how it's possible you missed it.

Any other fl$ families unaware of this before signing on? Past or present.

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Originally Posted by 429lax
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Here's the facts:
-This is our first year on fl$
-I have no axe to grind with fl$ or the staff (i'm not an LI Express spy)
-Never had to pay additional tournament fees (other than travel and hotels of course) on previous teams.
-No mention of additional fees at sign up (Find it on website if you can)
In fact at website under "fl$ Experience" includes at least 4 tournaments along with all the free swag No mention of additional fees Go ahead and look http://www.leaguelineup.com/newsitem.asp?url=4theloveofthegame&itemid=2873337.

So to keep it simple
!. fl$ costs more than any other team +
2. Tournament fees not included and not made known ahead of time=
3. fl$ is a rip off (at least compared to every other team on LI)

Is that more credible?


Sorry you did not see it coming. I really just don't know how it's possible you missed it.

Any other fl$ families unaware of this before signing on? Past or present.


Every club seems to operate a little bit differently. Is this information somewhere on the website? My kids don't play for this club, but I was keenly aware of exactly what was included. If this info is not available on the website or printed litature then the club is to blame. If it is, you have no reason to complain for not doing your homework.

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My son is on fl$ and has played for a few years with them. At tryout time, the website did say that tournaments are not included with the fee....while it may be more expansive than some clubs, the fee does include a week of camp during the summer. The camp is very well run and a lot of fun for the boys.

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
fl$....while it may be more expansive than some clubs, the fee does include a week of camp during the summer. The camp is very well run and a lot of fun for the boys.


So they "force" you to pay for the camp upfront as part of their registration fee? Wow!!

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nobody is FORCING anyone to do anything. You have a choice, you are either going to register you kid to play for them or you aren't. Most kids enjoy playing and going to camp with the kids they play with so having an fl$ camp isn't a bad thing. If your child is playing for an elite/travel team then you are obviously into lacrosse for everything you can get from it, you say "force" like you weren't planning on sending your child to a summer camp.

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Originally Posted by LaxMom1310
nobody is FORCING anyone to do anything. You have a choice, you are either going to register you kid to play for them or you aren't. Most kids enjoy playing and going to camp with the kids they play with so having an fl$ camp isn't a bad thing. If your child is playing for an elite/travel team then you are obviously into lacrosse for everything you can get from it, you say "force" like you weren't planning on sending your child to a summer camp.


are you "forced" to pay for the camp even if you do not want to attend or can not attend? are you forced to pay for the camp in order to play for fl$? depending on the answers to those questions would then determine if you are "forced" to pay for the camp

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no matter what the answers are you aren't being forced to play for fl$. There are plenty of other options out there you can just go play for another team that doesn't "force" you to pay for camp.

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Originally Posted by LaxMom1310
no matter what the answers are you aren't being forced to play for fl$. There are plenty of other options out there you can just go play for another team that doesn't "force" you to pay for camp.


the questions remain, can you play for fl$ and not attend the camp or not pay for it or are you "Forced" to pay for the camp if you want to play for fl$, LAXMOM your condescending posts and answers are ridiculous, we all know we do not have to play for fl$ but some of us might want play for fl$ and just not have to pay for the camp of the charities that the directors force upon you if you want to be on this particular club. I have way too much respect for women to believe that you are a lax mom, you gotta be a dude

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The camp is something that is included in the registration fee. So from your point of view, it seems you that you think that with all clubs you are forced to where their uniforms, helmets, forced to use their practice fields, their coaches. It is a choice of where you play, and each club, includes different things in their fee.

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
The camp is something that is included in the registration fee. So from your point of view, it seems you that you think that with all clubs you are forced to where their uniforms, helmets, forced to use their practice fields, their coaches. It is a choice of where you play, and each club, includes different things in their fee.


True - but some organizations do have options, LIExpress gives you the option of buying a helmet, gloves and shooting shirt but you do not need or have to buy them, and I understand that the cost will include certain basic things that you mentioned, you need a jersey to play on the team but you do not need to go to the camp and you do not need to donate money to charity

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