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Re: Boys 2017 Fall 2013/Summer 2014
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Originally Posted by Anonymous
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AT, the recent UNC committ was a decent player at the 2016 level. Since he had a "late birthday", August 1998, parents decided to have him go to a private school for a year after 8th grade so now he is a 2017 player. No way to view it other than as gaming the system. The fact that so many parents do it doesn't make it right.


What is wrong about it?

They are helping their child. If you choose not to do it that is your business.
If you do not want to send your kid to private school don't send him. If you do not want your son to play for a club team have him play only for his town team.
If you do not want him to go to a showcase event don't send him. Stop worrying about what others do. There is nothing wrong with it.


What's wrong is that it is a form of cheating. It's been said over and over again. Only wealthy families can afford to do this. Do you even feel at all bad for the hardworking, well deserving kid who's roster spot you took? The kid who earned it legitimately? Guess not! We have to worry about the cheaters, they are hurting the integrity of the sport. but karma will happen eventually. Just remember, just because you can do something, does not mean you should! Play fair, so you don't have to live the rest of your life wondering if your kid was good enough to make it in life competing honestly, instead of breeding a culture of deception.


Are all the 2017 players that are committed "cheating"? Are they all older?


I heard four of the 2017 committed kids are true freshman (14 years old).

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Excellent points CSage - and if anyone thinks with the workload to play Division I lacrosse - AND - a top 50 education is going to be able to complete a degree in 4yrs...few and far between. So you can add an additional year to your costs - hopefully they do well enough in school have endeared themselves to the staff and can get a Grad Assistant position to help....
Remember that many Division I athletes will attend summer sessions to pick up anywhere from 3 to 12 credits in order to maintain both academic progress rates (APR) for the institution and lighten their in-semester loads.

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by CageSage
Originally Posted by Anonymous
The issue becomes Timmy Reclassified gets a spot at Virginia - Tommy CorrectGrade goes to St John's (no - I am not putting St John's down there are few schools that are Virginia - just using it as a D1 Lax program)...who has the head start on a job interview? They gamed the system and it worked out - do they have to live with it - well I guess this is not the first game or system they manipulated so yeah, they will live with it, and after a UVA education and alumni connections, i would guess pretty well - so yes people are going to get upset
The alumni network conversation is a good one; this is a topic that we often discuss with families who are wondering what the value of a $50,000/year private institution might be over a $20,000/year state school or anything that ranges in the middle.

There are other points to consider in your example which only an individual family can adequately answer:
  • Timmy at Virginia struggles academically and graduates with a 2.8 GPA. Tommy at St. John's handles the lacrosse and academic balance with a 3.7 GPA. Who gets the nod if both are applying for the same job?
  • Timmy loved his time at UVA, but wants to return to the Northeast and settle in the New [lacrosse] tri-state area. What is the value of the UVA alumni network beyond Washington DC?
  • Tommy decides to quit lacrosse after two years to concentrate on a dual major. Academics can qualify for an additional discount at St. John's. Did he need lacrosse at all in his portfolio?
  • Due to lacrosse, Timmy needed an extra semester to complete his studies with the year-'round training load. If you look over four years, did the lacrosse scholarship really save anything?
This list of counter and counter-counter examples is longer than the Point-Counterpoint Segment on 60 Minutes. Our points are that when considering an institution, alumni network strength, long-term location, and financial considerations for athletics and academics are all part of the eventual equation.


University of Virginia is a State School and and is considerred to be a Top 25 School.

St Johns University is a Private School and is ranked around 125.

The cost is about the same for both schools unless you are a resident of Verginia.

I think that given the choice I would select Verginia every time.


Agreed, however the original point is that some kids might not get the UVA offer because a cheating holback is going instead.



So by your definition of a cheating holdback - do you consider the top lax schools as cheaters? I was just wondering because most, if not all, have kids that enter into their freshman year a whole year (or 2) older. Therefore, by your definition, you seem to be under the impression that starting this year with the class of 2017, these very same schools will be interested with kids that are, by your definition, a year (or 2) younger then the cheater holdbacks? I got news for you. NOTHING has changed with regard to taking the older kids. Many have stated that the holdbacks are taking our kids spots. Newsflash! Educate yourselves and do the research. Schools just aren't interested in 17 yr old freshman. Check out the rosters at these top schools and look up the birth dates. But mostly, just stop whining that it's not fare and stop acting like a victim.

Re: Boys 2017 Fall 2013/Summer 2014
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Originally Posted by Anonymous
So by your definition of a cheating holdback - do you consider the top lax schools as cheaters? I was just wondering because most, if not all, have kids that enter into their freshman year a whole year (or 2) older. Therefore, by your definition, you seem to be under the impression that starting this year with the class of 2017, these very same schools will be interested with kids that are, by your definition, a year (or 2) younger then the cheater holdbacks? I got news for you. NOTHING has changed with regard to taking the older kids. Many have stated that the holdbacks are taking our kids spots. Newsflash! Educate yourselves and do the research. Schools just aren't interested in 17 yr old freshman. Check out the rosters at these top schools and look up the birth dates. But mostly, just stop whining that it's not fare and stop acting like a victim.
Folks, this conversation has taken a wrong turn by introducing the concept of holdbacks being cheaters. While repeating a school year is clearly gaming the system, it comes with risks including the stigma of losing contact with your school friends, taking up with a younger group of classmates, and the boredom of repeating the same academic material.

Note that the NYSPHSAA has actually taken up this topic. Expect that there will be regulations on the number of years that scholastic athletes can participate in junior varsity and varsity athletics versus the number of progressed academic years coming shortly. In other words, playing two years at the junior varsity level while repeating ninth grade will result in one sacrificed scholastic athletic year at some point.

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by CageSage
Originally Posted by Anonymous
The issue becomes Timmy Reclassified gets a spot at Virginia - Tommy CorrectGrade goes to St John's (no - I am not putting St John's down there are few schools that are Virginia - just using it as a D1 Lax program)...who has the head start on a job interview? They gamed the system and it worked out - do they have to live with it - well I guess this is not the first game or system they manipulated so yeah, they will live with it, and after a UVA education and alumni connections, i would guess pretty well - so yes people are going to get upset
The alumni network conversation is a good one; this is a topic that we often discuss with families who are wondering what the value of a $50,000/year private institution might be over a $20,000/year state school or anything that ranges in the middle.

There are other points to consider in your example which only an individual family can adequately answer:
  • Timmy at Virginia struggles academically and graduates with a 2.8 GPA. Tommy at St. John's handles the lacrosse and academic balance with a 3.7 GPA. Who gets the nod if both are applying for the same job?
  • Timmy loved his time at UVA, but wants to return to the Northeast and settle in the New [lacrosse] tri-state area. What is the value of the UVA alumni network beyond Washington DC?
  • Tommy decides to quit lacrosse after two years to concentrate on a dual major. Academics can qualify for an additional discount at St. John's. Did he need lacrosse at all in his portfolio?
  • Due to lacrosse, Timmy needed an extra semester to complete his studies with the year-'round training load. If you look over four years, did the lacrosse scholarship really save anything?
This list of counter and counter-counter examples is longer than the Point-Counterpoint Segment on 60 Minutes. Our points are that when considering an institution, alumni network strength, long-term location, and financial considerations for athletics and academics are all part of the eventual equation.


University of Virginia is a State School and and is considerred to be a Top 25 School.

St Johns University is a Private School and is ranked around 125.

The cost is about the same for both schools unless you are a resident of Verginia.

I think that given the choice I would select Verginia every time.


Agreed, however the original point is that some kids might not get the UVA offer because a cheating holback is going instead.



So by your definition of a cheating holdback - do you consider the top lax schools as cheaters? I was just wondering because most, if not all, have kids that enter into their freshman year a whole year (or 2) older. Therefore, by your definition, you seem to be under the impression that starting this year with the class of 2017, these very same schools will be interested with kids that are, by your definition, a year (or 2) younger then the cheater holdbacks? I got news for you. NOTHING has changed with regard to taking the older kids. Many have stated that the holdbacks are taking our kids spots. Newsflash! Educate yourselves and do the research. Schools just aren't interested in 17 yr old freshman. Check out the rosters at these top schools and look up the birth dates. But mostly, just stop whining that it's not fare and stop acting like a victim.


Put down the afternoon beers... You're all over the map. What point are you actually trying to make??? Wow, I hope your wife is smart, because your intellect is not going to help your little Rabil.

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Re: Boys 2017 Fall 2013/Summer 2014
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I understand athletes will take summer classes - I played and did it myself - you are now inviting more issues, where to live in the summer (some schools close the dorms, no A/C, etc)or you just went through a grueling season starting in January, finished in May, took and successfully passed your 12 credits (that is all you need to play per semester) and now you have no money and were looking forward to hanging out on the beach back at your lifeguard job - well, sorry, you have to take 2 college classes in the span of 2 months so you can catch up or get ahead..it is not easy, so you get home for August, try to catch up with friends, rest for about an hour and start getting back into shape because the day you step back on campus there are 15 new darlings waiting to take your position....Make sure your son understands this it happens

Re: Boys 2017 Fall 2013/Summer 2014
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Originally Posted by Anonymous
How do you find out when the college prospect days are?
Can Cage answer this for this poster and a few others?

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by CageSage
Originally Posted by Anonymous
The issue becomes Timmy Reclassified gets a spot at Virginia - Tommy CorrectGrade goes to St John's (no - I am not putting St John's down there are few schools that are Virginia - just using it as a D1 Lax program)...who has the head start on a job interview? They gamed the system and it worked out - do they have to live with it - well I guess this is not the first game or system they manipulated so yeah, they will live with it, and after a UVA education and alumni connections, i would guess pretty well - so yes people are going to get upset
The alumni network conversation is a good one; this is a topic that we often discuss with families who are wondering what the value of a $50,000/year private institution might be over a $20,000/year state school or anything that ranges in the middle.

There are other points to consider in your example which only an individual family can adequately answer:
  • Timmy at Virginia struggles academically and graduates with a 2.8 GPA. Tommy at St. John's handles the lacrosse and academic balance with a 3.7 GPA. Who gets the nod if both are applying for the same job?
  • Timmy loved his time at UVA, but wants to return to the Northeast and settle in the New [lacrosse] tri-state area. What is the value of the UVA alumni network beyond Washington DC?
  • Tommy decides to quit lacrosse after two years to concentrate on a dual major. Academics can qualify for an additional discount at St. John's. Did he need lacrosse at all in his portfolio?
  • Due to lacrosse, Timmy needed an extra semester to complete his studies with the year-'round training load. If you look over four years, did the lacrosse scholarship really save anything?
This list of counter and counter-counter examples is longer than the Point-Counterpoint Segment on 60 Minutes. Our points are that when considering an institution, alumni network strength, long-term location, and financial considerations for athletics and academics are all part of the eventual equation.


University of Virginia is a State School and and is considerred to be a Top 25 School.

St Johns University is a Private School and is ranked around 125.

The cost is about the same for both schools unless you are a resident of Verginia.

I think that given the choice I would select Verginia every time.


Agreed, however the original point is that some kids might not get the UVA offer because a cheating holback is going instead.



So by your definition of a cheating holdback - do you consider the top lax schools as cheaters? I was just wondering because most, if not all, have kids that enter into their freshman year a whole year (or 2) older. Therefore, by your definition, you seem to be under the impression that starting this year with the class of 2017, these very same schools will be interested with kids that are, by your definition, a year (or 2) younger then the cheater holdbacks? I got news for you. NOTHING has changed with regard to taking the older kids. Many have stated that the holdbacks are taking our kids spots. Newsflash! Educate yourselves and do the research. Schools just aren't interested in 17 yr old freshman. Check out the rosters at these top schools and look up the birth dates. But mostly, just stop whining that it's not fare and stop acting like a victim.


Put down the afternoon beers... You're all over the map. What point are you actually trying to make??? Wow, I hope your wife is smart, because your intellect is not going to help your little Rabil.



you're funny. The minute someone makes a valid point you bash them. I thought the post was easy to understand. I guess it depends on what you want to hear!

Re: Boys 2017 Fall 2013/Summer 2014
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Rumour is a 2017 from Long Island has commited to Virginia.

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Just heard that a Dukes/Triple H 2017 M/FO player committed to Penn, or at leaast to the admissions process. So the Ivies are active.

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Rumour is a 2017 from Long Island has commited to Virginia.
Not a rumour Laviano of CSH commited to Virginia Congrats to Him

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Rumour is a 2017 from Long Island has commited to Virginia.

True 2017. Attack

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Just heard that a Dukes/Triple H 2017 M/FO player committed to Penn, or at leaast to the admissions process. So the Ivies are active.


Add another true 2017 to that list as well. From well known club and HS.

Details to follow. Announcement will be made as per Penn's discretion.

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Cage, Out of curiosity, was there the same level of discussion last year at this time with the 2016's? Were they complaining about holdbacks? Was there the same level of interest in who was commiting? What differences or similarities do you see in the two age groups? Only if if you know off the top of your head, otherwise I'll go back and look myself. Thanks


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That kid was a fantastic FO guy, the best we saw last Summer. If this is accurate and there is a verbal to an Ivy, what does that mean exactly? Not to diminish this terrific player but the broad understanding is what you wrote, you commit to apply for admissions at a school. Couldn't every 14 year old or eventually 12 year old say that for IL's twitter boy to publish?

Re: Boys 2017 Fall 2013/Summer 2014
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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Cage, Out of curiosity, was there the same level of discussion last year at this time with the 2016's? Were they complaining about holdbacks? Was there the same level of interest in who was commiting? What differences or similarities do you see in the two age groups? Only if if you know off the top of your head, otherwise I'll go back and look myself. Thanks
The Class of 2016 had no where near this level of discussion about early commitments, holdbacks, cheating, and more. The differences could include a number of things beyond talent level. Parents might be more comfortable discussing the realities of the subject given that BOTC is now in its fourth year.

If you go back to the Boys 2016 Fall 2012/Spring 2013 or this year's Boys 2016 Fall 2013/Summer 2014 threads, you can review what took place with the Class of 2016's freshman and sophomore seasons.

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When these kids take summer school, most, if not all, have a summer job on campus. They work at camps. Also, many large universities stay open and have a summer session. ACC programs have the kids living in athletic dorm, so ac is not an issue.

Staying back, or taking a Post Grad year is common practice and the ivies have been doing this for decades. The service academies do the same things. This is because many public school academic programs stink. And this does not matter which district they come from. I went to public school on LI and then transferred to a Prep school. I almost failed out the first year because my public school teachers and the curriculum stunk.

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Originally Posted by CageSage
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Cage, Out of curiosity, was there the same level of discussion last year at this time with the 2016's? Were they complaining about holdbacks? Was there the same level of interest in who was commiting? What differences or similarities do you see in the two age groups? Only if if you know off the top of your head, otherwise I'll go back and look myself. Thanks
The Class of 2016 had no where near this level of discussion about early commitments, holdbacks, cheating, and more. The differences could include a number of things beyond talent level. Parents might be more comfortable discussing the realities of the subject given that BOTC is now in its fourth year.

If you go back to the Boys 2016 Fall 2012/Spring 2013 or this year's Boys 2016 Fall 2013/Summer 2014 threads, you can review what took place with the Class of 2016's freshman and sophomore seasons.


My son is a committed Sophomore. He was one of the first, committing last July. This is insane, what is going on! I felt like it was too early for my son, and can't even imagine how a 1st semester 9th grader with no varsity experience can commit. Some of these kids won't even make their varsity team and what happens when the GPA is not good. All these kids have good intentions, but without a proven record, it's a lot of pressure to live up to.

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So can I ask why did you have your son commit at that time if you were not ready? Did you feel pressure from schools?

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Why aren't lacrosse coaches smarter? The apparent love affair coaches have with held back kids who are turning 16 while in 9th grade really upsets a lot of people on this thread, and I can understand that reasoning. I agree it is spineless to hold a kid back so he can be 16 running a field with 14 year olds for an advantage, unless the kid literally flunked out of 9th grade or struggled. Back in the day you repeated 9th grade if you were a crappy student, and now we can't even say "repeat" but have to style it as "reclassified" because the families doing it have self esteem issues with it.

If you are going to go all in and start recruiting 9th graders, why not look to the best 14 year olds? If a kid you like and want in your NCAA program someday does not develop enough, then redshirt him when he gets to UNC, UVa, etc. I have come to a conclusion that if UNC and others prefer this route, their programs will slip. I'd rather take a huge risk on a 14 year old who is competing well and has promise over a 16 year old sissy any day on our 2017 club team right now.

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
So can I ask why did you have your son commit at that time if you were not ready? Did you feel pressure from schools?


Yes, a little pressure. He had several offers from Ivies and other top lax schools. We decided to take an offer at the time because he had a pick from many excellent choices, many of which were offering very good financial packages. We were afraid that those offers may not still be there as the schools committed more and more players. My son is very happy with the choice, and our family is confident that we made a smart decision. My son is now working harder than ever both academically and athletically. He knows he has obligations to fulfill

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Just heard that a Dukes/Triple H 2017 M/FO player committed to Penn, or at leaast to the admissions process. So the Ivies are active.


Add another true 2017 to that list as well. From well known club and HS.

Details to follow. Announcement will be made as per Penn's discretion.


Guy..
You have been hinting about this for days, every post lends a bit more info. No one cares! When the time comes, please let us all know so we'll know what a lunatic you are.

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
So can I ask why did you have your son commit at that time if you were not ready? Did you feel pressure from schools?


Yes, a little pressure. He had several offers from Ivies and other top lax schools. We decided to take an offer at the time because he had a pick from many excellent choices, many of which were offering very good financial packages. We were afraid that those offers may not still be there as the schools committed more and more players. My son is very happy with the choice, and our family is confident that we made a smart decision. My son is now working harder than ever both academically and athletically. He knows he has obligations to fulfill


All the best to your son, congrats. It is not an easy road. People don't realize how hard it is to just get recruited at any level D1,D2,D3. It is a great accomplishment just to have been given the offer to play college lacrosse. With the sport now on a national level, the number of talented players far out numbers the freshman spots available amongst all levels of college lacrosse. We all need to be a little humble and grateful for whatever opportunities our children earn. Today and moving forward, they will be truly earned against the toughest field of competition this sport has ever seen.

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From an article in May 2013: "Before Dom Starsia talks about national titles, he unfolds a two-foot-wide spreadsheet that
gives University of Virginia recruits a look at life after
lacrosse. A big part of the coach’s sales pitch for a university founded by Thomas Jefferson in 1819 is VLAN, or the Virginia Lacrosse Alumni Network, a 200-person database of former players who work in finance and are willing to help cub Cavaliers reach Wall Street, too. The database gives a person’s name, firm, industry, title, e-mail and telephone number, says Drew Fox, a managing director at Neuberger Berman Group LLC whom Starsia credits with turning a loose affiliation of former players into an organized pipeline
of mentors. “Banker, equity guy, trader, analyst -- I don’t even know what those jobs are,” says Starsia, whose teams have produced four national championships and 13 Final Fours over his 21 seasons in Charlottesville. “But I do know it’s an impressive list"....


Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by CageSage
Originally Posted by Anonymous
The issue becomes Timmy Reclassified gets a spot at Virginia - Tommy CorrectGrade goes to St John's (no - I am not putting St John's down there are few schools that are Virginia - just using it as a D1 Lax program)...who has the head start on a job interview? They gamed the system and it worked out - do they have to live with it - well I guess this is not the first game or system they manipulated so yeah, they will live with it, and after a UVA education and alumni connections, i would guess pretty well - so yes people are going to get upset
The alumni network conversation is a good one; this is a topic that we often discuss with families who are wondering what the value of a $50,000/year private institution might be over a $20,000/year state school or anything that ranges in the middle.

There are other points to consider in your example which only an individual family can adequately answer:
  • Timmy at Virginia struggles academically and graduates with a 2.8 GPA. Tommy at St. John's handles the lacrosse and academic balance with a 3.7 GPA. Who gets the nod if both are applying for the same job?
  • Timmy loved his time at UVA, but wants to return to the Northeast and settle in the New [lacrosse] tri-state area. What is the value of the UVA alumni network beyond Washington DC?
  • Tommy decides to quit lacrosse after two years to concentrate on a dual major. Academics can qualify for an additional discount at St. John's. Did he need lacrosse at all in his portfolio?
  • Due to lacrosse, Timmy needed an extra semester to complete his studies with the year-'round training load. If you look over four years, did the lacrosse scholarship really save anything?
This list of counter and counter-counter examples is longer than the Point-Counterpoint Segment on 60 Minutes. Our points are that when considering an institution, alumni network strength, long-term location, and financial considerations for athletics and academics are all part of the eventual equation.


University of Virginia is a State School and and is considerred to be a Top 25 School.

St Johns University is a Private School and is ranked around 125.

The cost is about the same for both schools unless you are a resident of Verginia.

I think that given the choice I would select Verginia every time.

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Here's a potential problem with the very early commits we are seeing. The kids (and they are kids still) have an expectation both athletically and academically to continue to be a top prospect for the next 4 years of high school. Admit it or not, it is a lot of pressure for most to handle. When they leave high school the real pressure cooker starts. Division 1 athletics is a grind - and yes I know from personal experience. It is very rewarding but it is ultimately a full time job along with studies. So a kid who commits to a top school in 9th grade has 4 years that he has to "perform" because he is expected to as an early commit and then has to continue on an even bigger stage with better, stronger competition. Overall that's 8 years of a tough grind. I know some kids handle it fine, but I would think for others the idea of an early commit and "now I don't have to worry" is shortsighted. You have to ask yourself and your son " Are we committing just to say we committed or are we committing because the school, the program, the offer is everything we could hope for and more? Just one man's thoughts.

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Here's a potential problem with the very early commits we are seeing. The kids (and they are kids still) have an expectation both athletically and academically to continue to be a top prospect for the next 4 years of high school. Admit it or not, it is a lot of pressure for most to handle. When they leave high school the real pressure cooker starts. Division 1 athletics is a grind - and yes I know from personal experience. It is very rewarding but it is ultimately a full time job along with studies. So a kid who commits to a top school in 9th grade has 4 years that he has to "perform" because he is expected to as an early commit and then has to continue on an even bigger stage with better, stronger competition. Overall that's 8 years of a tough grind. I know some kids handle it fine, but I would think for others the idea of an early commit and "now I don't have to worry" is shortsighted. You have to ask yourself and your son " Are we committing just to say we committed or are we committing because the school, the program, the offer is everything we could hope for and more? Just one man's thoughts.


Amen.

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There are kids on "Every Team" that are older than the norm.

PAL / Town Teams at the youth level.

Club Teams at the youth level.

Middle School / JHS Teams.

Club Teams in the 7th and 8th grade.

JV and Varsity High School Teams.

HS Club Teams.

College Teams.

Are they all 'Cheaters" ? Are the parents who hold the child back from starting Kindergarden any different than the parents who hold the child back in the 9th grade? Are they Different than the parents who have their child do a Post Graduate Year at a Prep School? Are they different from the Parents who agree to have their child Redshirt in College?

Did Garden City have any holdbacks last Year? How about Ward Melville? I would bet that there are some boys at WM and GC who are holdbacks. What about Duke? Is Rob Pannell a cheater? Pannell did a PG year after HS and Redshirted at Cornell, Did Cornell Cheat? Is Pannell a Cheater? Did he take the spot of another kid?

This has been going on for a very long time. Starting school late, switching from public to private after 9th grade, PGing and redshirting have all been going on for as long as I can remember.

My kids are in the grade that the School District says they should be in but when the time comes maybe I will consider one of the options available.

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Just heard that a Dukes/Triple H 2017 M/FO player committed to Penn, or at leaast to the admissions process. So the Ivies are active.


Add another true 2017 to that list as well. From well known club and HS.

Details to follow. Announcement will be made as per Penn's discretion.


Guy..
You have been hinting about this for days, every post lends a bit more info. No one cares! When the time comes, please let us all know so we'll know what a lunatic you are.


do you have anything positive to add? if not; keep your anonymous negativity to yourself...always the same disgruntled keyboard tough guys with the same crappy attitudes...give it a break already.

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Here's a potential problem with the very early commits we are seeing. The kids (and they are kids still) have an expectation both athletically and academically to continue to be a top prospect for the next 4 years of high school. Admit it or not, it is a lot of pressure for most to handle. When they leave high school the real pressure cooker starts. Division 1 athletics is a grind - and yes I know from personal experience. It is very rewarding but it is ultimately a full time job along with studies. So a kid who commits to a top school in 9th grade has 4 years that he has to "perform" because he is expected to as an early commit and then has to continue on an even bigger stage with better, stronger competition. Overall that's 8 years of a tough grind. I know some kids handle it fine, but I would think for others the idea of an early commit and "now I don't have to worry" is shortsighted. You have to ask yourself and your son " Are we committing just to say we committed or are we committing because the school, the program, the offer is everything we could hope for and more? Just one man's thoughts.



That is a very thoughtful post. Thank you. Also, look at the math from high above, which is hard to do if your family is in the throat of this stuff. Lacrosse has a 12.6 allocation of scholarships over about 45 roster spots. That is not too impressive and is a worse percentage than women's lacrosse and other NCAA sports. Seems to me the jackpot is getting admitted to a UPenn or the like. And for any kid and his family, I salute their accomplishment. But with the Ivy league schools, is that happening for a 2017? No. The kid is committing to apply for admission to UPenn in 3 years. I get that if he meets the requirements he will get in with certainty or more certainty than some other kid with near perfect grades, and that is a great win. I would say that if a kid is in distress to perform well to meet the UPenn standard in 3 years, he has less a stress and uncertainty if he does meet them when he gets there if the lacrosse coach wants him. That is nothing compared to the stress and uncertainty of the zillion perfect kids out there with perfect grades and student leadership activities who will compete for finite spots among perfect kids in 3 years.

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Do you really think that if you moved the recruiting deadline back to the summer before your senior year, you would all of a sudden remove all stress and pressure to perform throughout high school? Whether it's an early commit having to work hard to live up to expectations or it's a freshman working hard to get noticed, the kid has to work hard no matter what if he wants to play D1 ball. He has to work just as hard in the weight room, on the field and in the classroom, with or without a commit. A true athlete is always pushing himself, commit or not. So sorry, I don't buy your argument that early recruiting is detrimental due to pressure.

It also seems like many people think that parents of early commits are complete morons who have no care whatsoever about their child's future. Do you really think they allowed their child to commit to UNC, UVA, Bucknell, etc., without thinking about programs, fit, money, and so on? Seriously? How could a kid commit to Bucknell and you suggest anything other than a kids academic long term future was considered? And most I'm sure, if not everyone of these 2017 commits, probably had more than one offer in front of them. So suggesting they jumped at the first school to offer probably isn't accurate either. And the reality is, there is only one way to curb early commits anyways, more scholarship money. It will never happen, but the reason basketball and football players can wait and take their time is that they know all offers are full. Sure, football coaches will offer freshman, but that's more to be able to say "Hey, we loved you from the start". Most commits are juniors and seniors. Basically, until the pie gets big enough that no one has to fight over the crumbs, people will continue to take the security for their children.

As for reclassifying, it's 50/50 whining and legit. Club ball should 100% age based, something akin to AAA hockey. But showcases should be grad based as kids do go to prep school and also start school late for various reasons. I do have to say I find it a bit odd that kids want to play varsity lacrosse as a freshman, or even 8th grader in some cases, but chooses to play below their age level during club ball. I know kids who have dropped down after reclassifying and unfortunately I think it stems their development. It's like playing in the back yard with a 5 year old, how much do you benefit from that? Yeah you look awesome, but did you get any better by toying with younger kids? Of course not. You could still grad when you want to, and look awesome at Jake Reed too, but also still get challenged during the summer and also keep things fair for those how spent thousands of dollars. It should be similar to hockey, age based minor hockey until junior. Some will go straight to college after high school at 18, others might play junior for a few years, whatever works for each individual.

That's my 2 cents…

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Do you really think that if you moved the recruiting deadline back to the summer before your senior year, you would all of a sudden remove all stress and pressure to perform throughout high school? Whether it's an early commit having to work hard to live up to expectations or it's a freshman working hard to get noticed, the kid has to work hard no matter what if he wants to play D1 ball. He has to work just as hard in the weight room, on the field and in the classroom, with or without a commit. A true athlete is always pushing himself, commit or not. So sorry, I don't buy your argument that early recruiting is detrimental due to pressure.

It also seems like many people think that parents of early commits are complete morons who have no care whatsoever about their child's future. Do you really think they allowed their child to commit to UNC, UVA, Bucknell, etc., without thinking about programs, fit, money, and so on? Seriously? How could a kid commit to Bucknell and you suggest anything other than a kids academic long term future was considered? And most I'm sure, if not everyone of these 2017 commits, probably had more than one offer in front of them. So suggesting they jumped at the first school to offer probably isn't accurate either. And the reality is, there is only one way to curb early commits anyways, more scholarship money. It will never happen, but the reason basketball and football players can wait and take their time is that they know all offers are full. Sure, football coaches will offer freshman, but that's more to be able to say "Hey, we loved you from the start". Most commits are juniors and seniors. Basically, until the pie gets big enough that no one has to fight over the crumbs, people will continue to take the security for their children.

As for reclassifying, it's 50/50 whining and legit. Club ball should 100% age based, something akin to AAA hockey. But showcases should be grad based as kids do go to prep school and also start school late for various reasons. I do have to say I find it a bit odd that kids want to play varsity lacrosse as a freshman, or even 8th grader in some cases, but chooses to play below their age level during club ball. I know kids who have dropped down after reclassifying and unfortunately I think it stems their development. It's like playing in the back yard with a 5 year old, how much do you benefit from that? Yeah you look awesome, but did you get any better by toying with younger kids? Of course not. You could still grad when you want to, and look awesome at Jake Reed too, but also still get challenged during the summer and also keep things fair for those how spent thousands of dollars. It should be similar to hockey, age based minor hockey until junior. Some will go straight to college after high school at 18, others might play junior for a few years, whatever works for each individual.

That's my 2 cents…


a valuable 2 cents..thanks

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Great post.

I saw this on US Lacrosse website today, under tab marked "Proof of Age":
US Lacrosse is currently developing a comprehensive Age Verification program. Until the program has been fully developed this system is for event participation purposes ONLY.


If you are the parent of a PLAYER who is currently registered to participate in an event then please submit your Proof of Age using the tool below.

Tips to Uploading Proof of Ages:

•Proof of ages accepted are birth certificate, passport or state issued ID with a valid birthdate listed.
•File should not be more than 2MB in size
•You know your file has been uploaded correctly when a date appears in the “DATE ADDED” column



Once you have uploaded your Proof of Age documentation, it may take as long as 48 business hours to validate. A confirmation email will be sent once the proof of age has been validated.

If you have any questions or concerns, feel free to contact the Constituent Services Center at 410.235.6882 #102, or send us an e-mail at events@uslacrosse.org, Monday through Friday, 8:30 a.m. – 5:00 p.m. est.

If enforced, it may resolve age related concerns at the youth level. There's hope, but, as always, it's the details...

Originally Posted by Anonymous
Do you really think that if you moved the recruiting deadline back to the summer before your senior year, you would all of a sudden remove all stress and pressure to perform throughout high school? Whether it's an early commit having to work hard to live up to expectations or it's a freshman working hard to get noticed, the kid has to work hard no matter what if he wants to play D1 ball. He has to work just as hard in the weight room, on the field and in the classroom, with or without a commit. A true athlete is always pushing himself, commit or not. So sorry, I don't buy your argument that early recruiting is detrimental due to pressure.

It also seems like many people think that parents of early commits are complete morons who have no care whatsoever about their child's future. Do you really think they allowed their child to commit to UNC, UVA, Bucknell, etc., without thinking about programs, fit, money, and so on? Seriously? How could a kid commit to Bucknell and you suggest anything other than a kids academic long term future was considered? And most I'm sure, if not everyone of these 2017 commits, probably had more than one offer in front of them. So suggesting they jumped at the first school to offer probably isn't accurate either. And the reality is, there is only one way to curb early commits anyways, more scholarship money. It will never happen, but the reason basketball and football players can wait and take their time is that they know all offers are full. Sure, football coaches will offer freshman, but that's more to be able to say "Hey, we loved you from the start". Most commits are juniors and seniors. Basically, until the pie gets big enough that no one has to fight over the crumbs, people will continue to take the security for their children.

As for reclassifying, it's 50/50 whining and legit. Club ball should 100% age based, something akin to AAA hockey. But showcases should be grad based as kids do go to prep school and also start school late for various reasons. I do have to say I find it a bit odd that kids want to play varsity lacrosse as a freshman, or even 8th grader in some cases, but chooses to play below their age level during club ball. I know kids who have dropped down after reclassifying and unfortunately I think it stems their development. It's like playing in the back yard with a 5 year old, how much do you benefit from that? Yeah you look awesome, but did you get any better by toying with younger kids? Of course not. You could still grad when you want to, and look awesome at Jake Reed too, but also still get challenged during the summer and also keep things fair for those how spent thousands of dollars. It should be similar to hockey, age based minor hockey until junior. Some will go straight to college after high school at 18, others might play junior for a few years, whatever works for each individual.

That's my 2 cents…

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Do you really think that if you moved the recruiting deadline back to the summer before your senior year, you would all of a sudden remove all stress and pressure to perform throughout high school? Whether it's an early commit having to work hard to live up to expectations or it's a freshman working hard to get noticed, the kid has to work hard no matter what if he wants to play D1 ball. He has to work just as hard in the weight room, on the field and in the classroom, with or without a commit. A true athlete is always pushing himself, commit or not. So sorry, I don't buy your argument that early recruiting is detrimental due to pressure.

It also seems like many people think that parents of early commits are complete morons who have no care whatsoever about their child's future. Do you really think they allowed their child to commit to UNC, UVA, Bucknell, etc., without thinking about programs, fit, money, and so on? Seriously? How could a kid commit to Bucknell and you suggest anything other than a kids academic long term future was considered? And most I'm sure, if not everyone of these 2017 commits, probably had more than one offer in front of them. So suggesting they jumped at the first school to offer probably isn't accurate either. And the reality is, there is only one way to curb early commits anyways, more scholarship money. It will never happen, but the reason basketball and football players can wait and take their time is that they know all offers are full. Sure, football coaches will offer freshman, but that's more to be able to say "Hey, we loved you from the start". Most commits are juniors and seniors. Basically, until the pie gets big enough that no one has to fight over the crumbs, people will continue to take the security for their children.

As for reclassifying, it's 50/50 whining and legit. Club ball should 100% age based, something akin to AAA hockey. But showcases should be grad based as kids do go to prep school and also start school late for various reasons. I do have to say I find it a bit odd that kids want to play varsity lacrosse as a freshman, or even 8th grader in some cases, but chooses to play below their age level during club ball. I know kids who have dropped down after reclassifying and unfortunately I think it stems their development. It's like playing in the back yard with a 5 year old, how much do you benefit from that? Yeah you look awesome, but did you get any better by toying with younger kids? Of course not. You could still grad when you want to, and look awesome at Jake Reed too, but also still get challenged during the summer and also keep things fair for those how spent thousands of dollars. It should be similar to hockey, age based minor hockey until junior. Some will go straight to college after high school at 18, others might play junior for a few years, whatever works for each individual.

That's my 2 cents…


a valuable 2 cents..thanks


No where was it stated that the kids who don't commit don't have pressure or that parents of committed kids jump at the first offer. I do agree that admission wise kids who commit have a leg up on the other non-athletes as far as acceptance. However, the point is putting the pressure of school decision and acceptance on a 14 year old is a bit much. I am aware of the caliber of play of the early LI commits and they are well deserved and no where did it say they jumped at the first offer. If they are happy, I am happy for them. You made some very valid points, your two cents worth, but misread some points of the other post.

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I read in another thread where the [lacrosse]'s Sporting Goods Tournament of Champions is requiring birth certificates to enforce age restrictions. Couple youth age restrictions with 4yr limitations for HS players and you will go a long way toward resolving reclassing issues.

It would neither prevent the kindergarten holdbacks, nor the 8th grade reclassers, but it would eliminate some advantages. Right now, an old 4th grader would still play with his classmates. Age restrictions would force him to play with the 5th grade teams. Additionally, many reclassed 8th graders play JV (or varsity) to continue their development. If these players were forced to play another year of youth, it would make this a less attractive option.

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Originally Posted by VaLaxDad
I read in another thread where the [lacrosse]'s Sporting Goods Tournament of Champions is requiring birth certificates to enforce age restrictions. Couple youth age restrictions with 4yr limitations for HS players and you will go a long way toward resolving reclassing issues.

It would neither prevent the kindergarten holdbacks, nor the 8th grade reclassers, but it would eliminate some advantages. Right now, an old 4th grader would still play with his classmates. Age restrictions would force him to play with the 5th grade teams. Additionally, many reclassed 8th graders play JV (or varsity) to continue their development. If these players were forced to play another year of youth, it would make this a less attractive option.



In the end, it really won't matter as far a recruiting goes because at the college level the coaches are still going to recruit the oldest players for their freshman class. Additionally, I will predict there will be more red shirts and pgs like the old days. It's not like the top colleges will fill their freshman classes with younger kids. They'll just say we want you if you pg.

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What's the difference between the stress of picking a university and picking a prep school? Not a whole lot and 14 year olds go through it all the time. You have to go on campus visits, do interviews, fill out applications, write essays, take tests, deal with financial aid and even worry about the lacrosse aspect. Personally I think it's the parents that determine how stressful the decision is. If you treat the situation like it's a life and death decision, so will the kid. If you take it in stride, so will the kid. And don't forget, there are positives to the situation as well. I think it's pretty cool that 14 year olds are thinking of their future and have the goal to attend university. Could be a lot worse.


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I don't understand your point. Reading through these threads, most posters are upset with reclassed 16yo competing with 14 yo son for an opportunity to play D1 lacrosse. Me too. Frankly, the system as it is rewards the older, reclassed kid with little downside other than cost. Enforcing age restrictions at the youth level, thereby forcing older kids to play out of class, makes kindergarten holdbacks a little more painful-no friends on team, car pools for Mom, or social hour with fellow parents at tourneys. 4yr HS restriction would curb reclassers by forcing another year of youth ball. Choosing 2-3 practices a week and higher costs for a year of physical growth over 5 practices, better competition and coaching becomes a much more difficult decision.

It is not perfect, but it would be a start.

Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by VaLaxDad
I read in another thread where the [lacrosse]'s Sporting Goods Tournament of Champions is requiring birth certificates to enforce age restrictions. Couple youth age restrictions with 4yr limitations for HS players and you will go a long way toward resolving reclassing issues.

It would neither prevent the kindergarten holdbacks, nor the 8th grade reclassers, but it would eliminate some advantages. Right now, an old 4th grader would still play with his classmates. Age restrictions would force him to play with the 5th grade teams. Additionally, many reclassed 8th graders play JV (or varsity) to continue their development. If these players were forced to play another year of youth, it would make this a less attractive option.



In the end, it really won't matter as far a recruiting goes because at the college level the coaches are still going to recruit the oldest players for their freshman class. Additionally, I will predict there will be more red shirts and pgs like the old days. It's not like the top colleges will fill their freshman classes with younger kids. They'll just say we want you if you pg.

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Originally Posted by VaLaxDad
I don't understand your point. Reading through these threads, most posters are upset with reclassed 16yo competing with 14 yo son for an opportunity to play D1 lacrosse. Me too. Frankly, the system as it is rewards the older, reclassed kid with little downside other than cost. Enforcing age restrictions at the youth level, thereby forcing older kids to play out of class, makes kindergarten holdbacks a little more painful-no friends on team, car pools for Mom, or social hour with fellow parents at tourneys. 4yr HS restriction would curb reclassers by forcing another year of youth ball. Choosing 2-3 practices a week and higher costs for a year of physical growth over 5 practices, better competition and coaching becomes a much more difficult decision.

It is not perfect, but it would be a start.

Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by VaLaxDad
I read in another thread where the [lacrosse]'s Sporting Goods Tournament of Champions is requiring birth certificates to enforce age restrictions. Couple youth age restrictions with 4yr limitations for HS players and you will go a long way toward resolving reclassing issues.

It would neither prevent the kindergarten holdbacks, nor the 8th grade reclassers, but it would eliminate some advantages. Right now, an old 4th grader would still play with his classmates. Age restrictions would force him to play with the 5th grade teams. Additionally, many reclassed 8th graders play JV (or varsity) to continue their development. If these players were forced to play another year of youth, it would make this a less attractive option.



In the end, it really won't matter as far a recruiting goes because at the college level the coaches are still going to recruit the oldest players for their freshman class. Additionally, I will predict there will be more red shirts and pgs like the old days. It's not like the top colleges will fill their freshman classes with younger kids. They'll just say we want you if you pg.


My point is that all those measures will even the playing field for entering freshman in high school. Just be careful what you wish for. Just remember that for those with late birthdays that fall AFTER they enter high school, let's say Aug-Nov, they will be a 17 yr old college freshman. College coaches will bypass the 13/14 yr old h.s. freshman when they become seniors all day long. We will hear more of "we're interested but you're just too young, do a pg yr and the spot is yours".

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VaLaxDad,

Thank you for your post. To add another conclusion to what you wrote: the coaches in this sport are dumb to extrapolate that the same 16 year old will dominate over a 14 year old today will dominate as a 20 year old against 18 year olds...or a 23 year old versus 21 is a big mistake. At 14 you are not close to growing or putting on a frame. At 16 it gets closer, and at 18 you are what you will be. At 18 and up it is all about hitting the weights and other training to get stronger and faster with the body you have.

I don't think it is a mistake to generalize the held back a grade kids at 16 are generally athletic advantage motivated. Those kids tend to be undersized for their sports and lock down an immediate advantage to compete against kids 12-23 months younger during a growth phase for boys. That disappears over time. In 5 years with UNC and UVa you will be see 6 players at 5'7, 150 kids from Maryland or New England prep schools throwing the ball around and running away from poles and losing. Danowski is likely laughing and encouraging the parent inquiries he gets to those to programs.

Generally all the early commits have great stick skills relative to their peers now, most of whom are behind only because of age. Stick skills you can get, that is just hours of practice. Size is non negotiable and changes everything. When we someday see these kids playing in college, who do you want odds on? A first team midfield at Duke with a fleet of 6'2 200+lb hybrids that can run and have stick skills caught up, or a fleet of kids who were 5'7 130lb early commits who became 5'8 150lb prep school yesterday heroes? Yes, Duke will miss a Colin Munro, but they will also get 5 early commits who are not that one special player every year. You don't win that way.

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Maybe an unit ended consequence for a minority, but the proposal is still an improvement to the status quo. This is a non issue in DMV, because school cut off is Sept 30.
All in all better for a 17 yo to compete with an 18 yo than a 14 yo with an 16 yo.

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