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Re: Boys 2017 Fall 2013/Summer 2014
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How was the Natl'l 175 event after the IMCLA decision re: mid-week recruting events. Did coaches show up? Seems to me Philly Freshman Showcase took all of the attention for this particular week.

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Hello, our son was not at the Warrior Showcase, but has done several others this past month. It IS a shame that we choose to progress through our typical grades in a conventional manner, while many choose to stay back, repeat, or "post-grad" etc. If I am being too critical, please educate me as to why this is done, if it is NOT only to gain advantage overs in school and athletics. I do typically criticize the "PG" approach, but I hope that I will discover any real merit in benefitting the child, or confirm that which I already suspect. Thanks

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I am not a turtle parent. Do you get it at all? The team which you bash is made up of some of the best kids in the sport, all from nearby. They have a record which is second to none. It is true that these teams which are being put together, boast some fine players, a year or MORE older, from several states AT LEAST. There is no shame in dropping some games. These showcases are utilized to do just that, "showcase" the individual. There is simply some AWESOME ball being played these days. I only wish that more folks could sit back, watch, and enjoy more of it. It MAY influence what your child can take from the experience, rather than an education in how to be a bitter slouch. I also believe that the post grad method of stacking up a team will affect any silly 'standings" which have been so brilliantly debated on these threads. No shame here. Let these clubs select only the very best from several states. Even some of local, large named clubs are starting to follow, with ever changing rosters, kids flip flopping teams to suit the outcome. I believe that it is dishonest, but who determines this? The fact is that Long Island teams will not win easily anymore at these events. In closing, the team which some bash so quickly has lost a couple of key players. So be it. They are not weak, and have become a little more human. Long Island would have to take a few best from each top team, and a few from surrounding states, and then enter them in a year younger division. This is what is currently taking place. I think that losing a game by a goal or two, or even winning 3 of 4, or 2 of 4 against these teams is pretty decent. Don't hate.

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Sadly your suspicions are on point. Attendance would flounder. It is, however, frustrating to field a team of TRUE 9th graders, against kids whom FIRST, benefit from a later enrollment cut off date, SECONDLY, repeat a year of schooling. This CAN, but does not ALWAYS, result in a 16 year old freshman, who will reach 17 years of age in spring of his/ her freshman year. Is this odd to you at all? If I am not accurate, please educate. Thanks. Oh, that was a beautiful Aston Martin that your freshman pulled up in at Philly!

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People bash on the Turtles because they have been an entitled group of kids (and parents) for years. They've also lost a few key kids, and this trend will continue.

As for some teams having older kids, that may be true, but the situation is way overblown. Amazing how LI parents are so obsessed about an issue that doesn't exist.

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
People bash on the Turtles because they have been an entitled group of kids (and parents) for years. They've also lost a few key kids, and this trend will continue.

As for some teams having older kids, that may be true, but the situation is way overblown. Amazing how LI parents are so obsessed about an issue that doesn't exist.


You are either naive or in denial. The issue does exist and will continue to exist. LI players heve benefitted from playing "up" against the MD teams. This is evidenced later at the collegiate level where the age difference doesn't matter anymore and LI players consistently out perform MD players.

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
People bash on the Turtles because they have been an entitled group of kids (and parents) for years. They've also lost a few key kids, and this trend will continue.

As for some teams having older kids, that may be true, but the situation is way overblown. Amazing how LI parents are so obsessed about an issue that doesn't exist.


You are either naive or in denial. The issue does exist and will continue to exist. LI players heve benefitted from playing "up" against the MD teams. This is evidenced later at the collegiate level where the age difference doesn't matter anymore and LI players consistently out perform MD players.


The number of "older" kids from certain states is nominal in numbers. It is also speaks to the paranoia of LI parents. Look at hockey. Nearly every hockey kid from Canada is older than their US counterpart. You don't see US parents crying about any differential in age. Seriously, you look silly.

As for LI kids outperforming MD kids in college (or kids from any state), where is your evidence, and what criteria do you use to determine "better". There are tons of LI kids who do great in the college ranks, and they should - the number of kids from NY who play lacrosse dwarfs any other state.

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
People bash on the Turtles because they have been an entitled group of kids (and parents) for years. They've also lost a few key kids, and this trend will continue.

As for some teams having older kids, that may be true, but the situation is way overblown. Amazing how LI parents are so obsessed about an issue that doesn't exist.


Issue doesn't exist?? In that well known league in Philly it's an epidemic. To say otherwise is laughable. Believe it or not, some of us folks up here in LI have relatives in Philly and MD. The gig is up. We all know what goes on. I guess we're all making up stories about 6 plus kids on a freshman showcase team being 16?? About ACC freshmen who's freshman room mates are 19 years old and turning 20 by spring. About freshman prep school kids being 2 years older than LI freshman. About 60 percent of all freshman that made jake reed were a year or two older. It's all made up. One last thing... Notice how LI travel teams beat every team up until the summer before 9th grade?? Then all of a sudden our kids can barely beat any of the top teams from out of state??? How does this happen? I wonder? Yet when the LI clubs go to the U-15 Championship they're always in the finals or win it. Oh yeah and the top clubs from MD and Philly don't show up or don't do well. Why?

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As the parent of a 1999 freshman I have never complained of kids being held back and will never consider holding my kid back so can give the appearance of being bigger and "better". He has played up on many occasions in club and in school and has never used age as an excuse for someone beating him. He will end up better for it on the field and off. If a kid can only succeed by playing down and being held back he is the one who is at the disadvantage in the end when the younger kids mature and catch up. And he realizes he only succeeded when mom and dad put him up against younger kids.
Only the parent of a kid held back will say the issue is "overblown". Those of us with kids who excelled "on age " against older competition are not complaining or making a big issue of this matter. But we do have pity for your kids. You only think the matter is overblown because of guilt

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
People bash on the Turtles because they have been an entitled group of kids (and parents) for years. They've also lost a few key kids, and this trend will continue.

As for some teams having older kids, that may be true, but the situation is way overblown. Amazing how LI parents are so obsessed about an issue that doesn't exist.


You are either naive or in denial. The issue does exist and will continue to exist. LI players heve benefitted from playing "up" against the MD teams. This is evidenced later at the collegiate level where the age difference doesn't matter anymore and LI players consistently out perform MD players.


The number of "older" kids from certain states is nominal in numbers. It is also speaks to the paranoia of LI parents. Look at hockey. Nearly every hockey kid from Canada is older than their US counterpart. You don't see US parents crying about any differential in age. Seriously, you look silly.

As for LI kids outperforming MD kids in college (or kids from any state), where is your evidence, and what criteria do you use to determine "better". There are tons of LI kids who do great in the college ranks, and they should - the number of kids from NY who play lacrosse dwarfs any other state.


Look it up...Inside Lacrosse did a piece on this a while back.
LI/NY players out-perform MD players by a long-shot. So keep holding your kids back so your 16 year olds continue to beat the snot out of our 14 year olds. Guess who's going to come out better in the long run.

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
People bash on the Turtles because they have been an entitled group of kids (and parents) for years. They've also lost a few key kids, and this trend will continue.

As for some teams having older kids, that may be true, but the situation is way overblown. Amazing how LI parents are so obsessed about an issue that doesn't exist.


You are either naive or in denial. The issue does exist and will continue to exist. LI players heve benefitted from playing "up" against the MD teams. This is evidenced later at the collegiate level where the age difference doesn't matter anymore and LI players consistently out perform MD players.


The number of "older" kids from certain states is nominal in numbers. It is also speaks to the paranoia of LI parents. Look at hockey. Nearly every hockey kid from Canada is older than their US counterpart. You don't see US parents crying about any differential in age. Seriously, you look silly.

As for LI kids outperforming MD kids in college (or kids from any state), where is your evidence, and what criteria do you use to determine "better". There are tons of LI kids who do great in the college ranks, and they should - the number of kids from NY who play lacrosse dwarfs any other state.


Here are the numbers.
IL can have all hometown MD kids on the top 50 ranks they want, bottom line they're not the most productive players in college by a long shot.
http://www.insidelacrosse.com/news/2013/08/13/coughlin-analyzing-hotbeds-numbers

Re: Boys 2017 Fall 2013/Summer 2014
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Extremely interesting information about the number of players participating in Division I programs as of August 2013. The implication is that the average year would produce about 96 NCAA Division I players per year.

What was surprising is that there are 30.5% of NCAA Division I players that are coming from OUTSIDE of these listed regions.

Region Number of Players % of DI Men’s Lacrosse
Long Island (NY) 386 13.90%
New Jersey 277 10%
DC Metro Area 175 6.30%
Massachusetts 144 5.20%
Upstate/Central (NY) 138 5.00%
Canada 127 4.60%
Philadelphia/Main Line (PA) 126 4.50%
Fairfield County (CT) 110 4.00%
Baltimore Metro Area (MD) 102 3.70%
Ohio 76 2.70%
Westchester County (NY) 75 2.70%
Anne Arundel County (MD) 73 2.60%
California 64 2.30%
Colorado 56 2.00%

Re: Boys 2017 Fall 2013/Summer 2014
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So much crying from LI parents. Guess what - when you play in HS and college, you play against older kids all the time. Get over yourself (and no, I don't live in MD or PA).

As for the talk about what will happen in college, who cares? My son loves lacrosse, but that is not going to be his profession. He is going to college to learn and prepare for a professional career outside of sports.

Many of you LI parents are delusional.

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...and MD has over 2x the population of LI.

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
So much crying from LI parents. Guess what - when you play in HS and college, you play against older kids all the time. Get over yourself (and no, I don't live in MD or PA).

As for the talk about what will happen in college, who cares? My son loves lacrosse, but that is not going to be his profession. He is going to college to learn and prepare for a professional career outside of sports.

Many of you LI parents are delusional.


Or Honest....

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Who's delusional? Let's bring down the 16 year olds from LI to play your 2017's and then we'll see who's delusional.

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Who's delusional? Let's bring down the 16 year olds from LI to play your 2017's and then we'll see who's delusional.


LOL. There are no 2017 teams with 16 year olds. And guess what? Kids play older kids in HS and college all the time.

There is a direct correlation between crying over this non-issue and intelligence. And seemingly living in LI as well.

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
...and MD has over 2x the population of LI.


LOL. I don't live in Maryland, but I have access to this new fangled Google machine, and this is what it spit out:

Population of Long Island: 7.57 million people
Population of Maryland: 5.89 million people


Don't let facts get in your way.

Re: Boys 2017 Fall 2013/Summer 2014
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I didn't mean to kindle the flames of hate, but my ideas on this were merely based upon some sideline chats with parents of these kids on non-Long Island teams. The parents were not ashamed of the age difference. I am wondering why some folks, while on these threads, seem to completely deny the situation. It is frustrating, and I was hoping to start, or take place in more of a discussion forum. Never mind. Thanks, and good day!

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Not so much crying, but highlighting a seemingly unfair advantage in competition. We will continue on our path, in a sportsmanlike manner, but the fact remains, that many of these competitors will attend a freshman year of college at age 20. It is your turn to now cast insults, my non-long island friend.

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I love reading these posts. You guys are really doing a disservice to the reasonable people from LI.

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How does one contest the claim, "there are no 2017 teams with 16 yr olds"?

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Do you guys get paid for each whine?

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Some of us LI parents have no problem playing against older kids. Bring it on. That's what we do in high school. Most of the better players on LI would have no interest in being left back a year because they don't need to.

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Some of us LI parents have no problem playing against older kids. Bring it on. That's what we do in high school. Most of the better players on LI would have no interest in being left back a year because they don't need to.


It's funny how many of you get worked up over a handful of kids who may reclassify. You guys make it sound like the entire state is repeating a year.

LOL. Good Lord - there is a lot of paranoia on this board.

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When its all said and done its more than a handful. No complaining here. I agree with the previous post. Our kids will play with older kids all day long!!!! "If you can play then you can play". I don't care if some these kids are 30 when they start college. That's on them. For our LI guys who play ....age is meaningless. But one thing is for sure. You guys would not want go up against the better LI kids if they "reclassified ".

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
...and MD has over 2x the population of LI.


LOL. I don't live in Maryland, but I have access to this new fangled Google machine, and this is what it spit out:

Population of Long Island: 7.57 million people
Population of Maryland: 5.89 million people

Don't let facts get in your way.


The 7.57 million includes approximately 5 million people from Brooklyn and Queens. These are boroughs in NYC where lacrosse is barely played. The 386 Div. 1 players from LI all come fromm Nassau and Suffolk counties.

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3 of 4 players on some teams, no? Repeating a year, I mean. Is this not so? It seems that if you would stop the denial of this, it may die off a bit. I guess that soon somebody will start naming which teams, kids names, etc. Not a good direction.

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
When its all said and done its more than a handful. No complaining here. I agree with the previous post. Our kids will play with older kids all day long!!!! "If you can play then you can play". I don't care if some these kids are 30 when they start college. That's on them. For our LI guys who play ....age is meaningless. But one thing is for sure. You guys would not want go up against the better LI kids if they "reclassified ".


LOL. The fact that you can even say in jest "kids are 30 when they start college" shows you have some serious insecurity issues.

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Some of us LI parents have no problem playing against older kids. Bring it on. That's what we do in high school. Most of the better players on LI would have no interest in being left back a year because they don't need to.


One parents experience:
I put my son on a u17 travel team after his first year playing varsity for a top Suffolk team where he hardly saw the field. Playing up that summer he was noticed as a rising sophomore that was able to hold his own with kids 1,2 and 3 years older. The coaches respected that and the interest poured in. Yale, Princeton, UNC, Maryland, Syracuse, Georgetown etc. We seized the moment and committed with a great offer. I believe my son's ability to show how could play and perform against older kids was impressive to the coaches. No excuses about being younger. Nobody cares, especially college coaches! Stop complaining about the age difference and use it to your advantage!

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How badly would you whine if your teams were on a level playing field, against same aged players?

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I feel sad for the parents that held their mediocre '16 back so he can get noticed amongst the 17's. If they were any good they would have been recruited last year. They'll be the most at risk at the next level as they wont be used to being challenged.

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I think it sends a bad message to the child.
"hey sonny boy, you are not good enough to play against your own age , so we are going to have you play against the little kids so you standout more"
not a good message

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
3 of 4 players on some teams, no? Repeating a year, I mean. Is this not so? It seems that if you would stop the denial of this, it may die off a bit. I guess that soon somebody will start naming which teams, kids names, etc. Not a good direction.


Nope. That number is exaggerated. Nice try. Anything to justify a loss, I guess.

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
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Originally Posted by Anonymous
...and MD has over 2x the population of LI.


LOL. I don't live in Maryland, but I have access to this new fangled Google machine, and this is what it spit out:

Population of Long Island: 7.57 million people
Population of Maryland: 5.89 million people

Don't let facts get in your way.


The 7.57 million includes approximately 5 million people from Brooklyn and Queens. These are boroughs in NYC where lacrosse is barely played. The 386 Div. 1 players from LI all come fromm Nassau and Suffolk counties.


And you think the entire state of MD plays lacrosse? LOL. Keep warping FACTS.

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
I think it sends a bad message to the child.
"hey sonny boy, you are not good enough to play against your own age , so we are going to have you play against the little kids so you standout more"
not a good message
I posted this last year but think it is appropriate for this discussion again. My 2017 son (who had just turned 14) attended Jake Reed last summer and I was told by Jake Reed himself that over 70 of the 120 kids there were technically a year older than most state age cutoffs for rising freshman would be (not just LI which is more conservative). There were many 15 year olds and several 16 year olds. People were not even shy discussing it or hiding it. This is pervasive and becoming more so. Particularly when someone like Jamie Munro is essentially advocating it at his recruiting seminars at his camps. Not sour grapes here or an excuse, and kids need to compete regardless if they want to have opportunities, and I realize coaches don't really care, just the facts.

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There is absolutely no denying that there are 16 year old kids playing on 2017 teams. My son and I were at the Warrior Diamond Showcase and there were kids openly talking about how old they were and how they repeated years and so on. Several of them were from a certain Baltimore area travel organization that just so happened to be hosting the event. I really don't care one way or another, my son will compete and be fine, but the physical difference between a 16 year old and a 14 year old is undeniable. The older kids at the Warrior definitely stood out and were definitely noticed by the few college coaches that were there. I think its definitely an unfair advantage but I also think thats the way it is and not worth complaining about. However, the denials that this is going on is just plain laughable. At the fl$ in 3D shootout a few weeks ago, the 3D Canada team was filled with 17 year old "reclassified" kids who were playing in a 2016 bracket. One mother told a few of us her son started school late, and shes already held him back a year, and shes considering having him do a PG year if hes drawing interest from a big time school. Make no mistake, this is something the Director of 3D lacrosse openly advocates. He did it with his own son, who is 16 years old and a 2017 and just committed to North Carolina. This is not some delusional, made up conspiracy by Long Island parents, this is an actual strategy by many coaches and parents alike to give their sons an edge in college recruitment. Like someone stated earlier, "college coaches only care about grade, not age". Given the fact that the college recruitment schedule seems like it has accelerated, there is no denying that this is giving these older kids an advantage. Just take a look at the 2017 kids that have committed so far, not one of them is a true 2017, all of them are hold backs and "reclassified". So in closing I would say to the Long Island parents to stop whining because theres nothing we can do about it, and I would say to the parents of the hold backs and grade repeaters, stop denying it and be truthful about it already.

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
3 of 4 players on some teams, no? Repeating a year, I mean. Is this not so? It seems that if you would stop the denial of this, it may die off a bit. I guess that soon somebody will start naming which teams, kids names, etc. Not a good direction.


Nope. That number is exaggerated. Nice try. Anything to justify a loss, I guess.


Keep denying it. Its actually sad and laughable how you are all denying this is going on. There are several directors of big time travel organizations that are openly advocating holding back your son and repeating years to have him gain an edge in recruiting. It is a fact that this is going on, its not in question so you denying it makes you look silly and small.

Oh and yeah BTW our best Long Island team which is age appropriate smoked the best Maryland team with a roster full of "reclassifieds". So I dont think anyone is trying to justify a loss here, just calling it like it is. Your turn.

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
...and MD has over 2x the population of LI.


LOL. I don't live in Maryland, but I have access to this new fangled Google machine, and this is what it spit out:

Population of Long Island: 7.57 million people
Population of Maryland: 5.89 million people
This is true if you include the NYC Boro's of Brooklyn and Queens. Geographicly on Long Island, but not part of the lacrosse landscape.

Don't let facts get in your way.

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
There is absolutely no denying that there are 16 year old kids playing on 2017 teams. My son and I were at the Warrior Diamond Showcase and there were kids openly talking about how old they were and how they repeated years and so on. Several of them were from a certain Baltimore area travel organization that just so happened to be hosting the event. I really don't care one way or another, my son will compete and be fine, but the physical difference between a 16 year old and a 14 year old is undeniable. The older kids at the Warrior definitely stood out and were definitely noticed by the few college coaches that were there. I think its definitely an unfair advantage but I also think thats the way it is and not worth complaining about. However, the denials that this is going on is just plain laughable. At the fl$ in 3D shootout a few weeks ago, the 3D Canada team was filled with 17 year old "reclassified" kids who were playing in a 2016 bracket. One mother told a few of us her son started school late, and shes already held him back a year, and shes considering having him do a PG year if hes drawing interest from a big time school. Make no mistake, this is something the Director of 3D lacrosse openly advocates. He did it with his own son, who is 16 years old and a 2017 and just committed to North Carolina. This is not some delusional, made up conspiracy by Long Island parents, this is an actual strategy by many coaches and parents alike to give their sons an edge in college recruitment. Like someone stated earlier, "college coaches only care about grade, not age". Given the fact that the college recruitment schedule seems like it has accelerated, there is no denying that this is giving these older kids an advantage. Just take a look at the 2017 kids that have committed so far, not one of them is a true 2017, all of them are hold backs and "reclassified". So in closing I would say to the Long Island parents to stop whining because theres nothing we can do about it, and I would say to the parents of the hold backs and grade repeaters, stop denying it and be truthful about it already.


While you're on this paranoia kick, the Warrior Diamond Showcase is sponsored by Aloha Tournaments, not the club you are alluding to.

LOL. Keep crying. I am from neither MD or PA, but enjoy seeing you guys whine incesssantly.

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