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Re: Boys 2021 Fall 2013/Summer 2014
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Great points. I have tried to take this issue up with others on BOTC, with little reply. It seems many think WashDC teams "stack the deck" with older players against our LI brothers. As it turns out, our youth teams follow USLacrosse age guidelines, U9-U15. Properly enforced and without reclassing, it seems clear that we could be up to 3 months older than LI kids at the upper end of the age groups--so 2019, 2021 and 2023 (?). Of course, if LI teams are playing class year and reclassing at younger ages, it seems clear that LI teams could (would) be older.
I agree that the re-classing phenomenon is bad for the game; among other things it re-enforces the rich kid stereotype of lax players. I also believe that USLacrosse, through its insurance program, is in the best position to fix the issue. By simply refusing to issue insurance to youth tournaments, leagues and teams that do not follow its age guidelines, organizers, administrators and coaches would quickly recalibrate their events to comply. Parents, if forced to sign an affidavit certifying Jr’ s age or risk voiding their supplemental insurance (and opening up personal liability), would stop any age related shenanigans.
Doesn’t answer all problems, particularly those at HS level, but it seems like a good place to start with little downside
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Dear Parents, coaches, and directors of that read this thread; the fundamental issue is age or grade based, stop talking about a specific team or teams as it only takes objectivity out of the discussion. On long island there has been a growing number of players who are being "red shirted" or "reclassified" as they call it at younger ages to hide the fact that they are being left back for athletic reasons, some for academic reasons. The point is there are more opportunities for safety issues with players playing on grade then by age. Hence US lacrosse about 6 years ago stepped in and followed suit with almost every major youth sports organization in the country to have lacrosse be played on a age level instead of grade based. This would ensure that all the players where the same age, plus make sure that there was no physical advantage on one team that could and most likely create a safety issue.

Now when we talk about Team Long Island or Team Igloo, or Team 91, or any club team you must look at what that club does to ensure the safety of its players, and the spirit of which youth lacrosse is played.

Until the boys hit manhood my personal opinion is that age based is a much better approach then grade. There are several players on all these teams who have been left back for one reason or another; creating an advantage that could lead to someone getting extremely injured. So teams that are age based can let the other coaches and other programs know that there will be no physical advantage. Which depending on which side of the fence you are on this issue is objectively a better approach.

Now there are qualifying events in Long Island that are grade based but highlight the fact that the tournament is for a age based qualifier. Teams that adhere to the age based format will be allowed to compete, the teams that adhere to a grade based format will be forced to leave some of their players off their rosters in order to compete. So all in all; age is the best way to make sure all teams are playing in a safe, competitive environment and in accordance to the national youth rules.


The Problem is that US Lacrosse groups age every two years, U15, U13, U11, U9. So boys will be playing against other boys who are two years older.
If they did one year age groups it would be better for all.

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Re: Boys 2021 Fall 2013/Summer 2014
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Originally Posted by VaLaxDad
Great points. I have tried to take this issue up with others on BOTC, with little reply.
Originally Posted by Anonymous
The Problem is that US Lacrosse groups age every two years, U15, U13, U11, U9. So boys will be playing against other boys who are two years older.
If they did one year age groups it would be better for all.
BOTC did an exhaustive report on our discussions with US Lacrosse regarding age group controversies.

US Lacrosse agreed with BOTC's perspective that single year U-age groups must be introduced to improve the integrity of the youth game. Their response however was that there are an insufficient number of players in some of lacrosse's smaller markets to allow single age groups to be the norm.

Our perspective was that US Lacrosse should announce single age group U-age brackets and allow those smaller market teams to simply play in the proper age group of the oldest player on the team.

BOTC has found that US Lacrosse not only moves glacially but is largely out of touch with its constituency, particularly in the hotbed areas of New [lacrosse] and their own Baltimore backyard. When we last spoke, US Lacrosse was encouraging BOTC to engage with Northern California as an emerging market. Our counter was that there is sufficient work here on the east coast to establish a solid age-based foundation.

Needless to say, we have heard nothing back from US Lacrosse in the last four months. If it was not for the engagement with the Long Island Metropolitan Lacrosse Foundation (the local US Lacrosse Chapter), we would not even know that a national organization exists.

Therein is most of the problem.

Re: Boys 2021 Fall 2013/Summer 2014
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Very interesting. Can you provide a link to the reports?

Single age U teams make sense. If numbers are too small, kids can play in older U bracket, same as now, but more flexible.

Any thoughts on enforcement?
Originally Posted by CageSage
Originally Posted by VaLaxDad
Great points. I have tried to take this issue up with others on BOTC, with little reply.
Originally Posted by Anonymous
The Problem is that US Lacrosse groups age every two years, U15, U13, U11, U9. So boys will be playing against other boys who are two years older.
If they did one year age groups it would be better for all.
BOTC did an exhaustive report on our discussions with US Lacrosse regarding age group controversies.

US Lacrosse agreed with BOTC's perspective that single year U-age groups must be introduced to improve the integrity of the youth game. Their response however was that there are an insufficient number of players in some of lacrosse's smaller markets to allow single age groups to be the norm.

Our perspective was that US Lacrosse should announce single age group U-age brackets and allow those smaller market teams to simply play in the proper age group of the oldest player on the team.

BOTC has found that US Lacrosse not only moves glacially but is largely out of touch with its constituency, particularly in the hotbed areas of New [lacrosse] and their own Baltimore backyard. When we last spoke, US Lacrosse was encouraging BOTC to engage with Northern California as an emerging market. Our counter was that there is sufficient work here on the east coast to establish a solid age-based foundation.

Needless to say, we have heard nothing back from US Lacrosse in the last four months. If it was not for the engagement with the Long Island Metropolitan Lacrosse Foundation (the local US Lacrosse Chapter), we would not even know that a national organization exists.

Therein is most of the problem.

Re: Boys 2021 Fall 2013/Summer 2014
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Team 91 Orange will win this tournament.
Igloo is not playing.


Originally Posted by Anonymous
There are a lot of 2021 teams in the Fall Brawl Turkey Shootout. I noticed that 91 has 4 teams in that bracket, any thoughts about to how that bracket will play out?




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There is no championship to win.
Its 3 games and go home.

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Team 91 Orange will win this tournament.
Igloo is not playing.


Originally Posted by Anonymous
There are a lot of 2021 teams in the Fall Brawl Turkey Shootout. I noticed that 91 has 4 teams in that bracket, any thoughts about to how that bracket will play out?
Smash will beat Orange no problem.



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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Team 91 Orange will win this tournament.
Igloo is not playing.


Originally Posted by Anonymous
There are a lot of 2021 teams in the Fall Brawl Turkey Shootout. I noticed that 91 has 4 teams in that bracket, any thoughts about to how that bracket will play out?
Smash will beat Orange no problem.


you really think a 4th grade smash team will beat the 5th grade orange team ? no way


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A large portion of 91 Orange has moved on. It is not the same team.
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Team 91 Orange will win this tournament.
Igloo is not playing.


Originally Posted by Anonymous
There are a lot of 2021 teams in the Fall Brawl Turkey Shootout. I noticed that 91 has 4 teams in that bracket, any thoughts about to how that bracket will play out?
Smash will beat Orange no problem.


you really think a 4th grade smash team will beat the 5th grade orange team ? no way


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How did the teams of 2021 do? I read that Express and 91 Smash did well. Was wondering how the others did.

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
How did the teams of 2021 do? I read that Express and 91 Smash did well. Was wondering how the others did.
j

I saw that 91 Orange went 3-0. And I know that Legacy beat Outlaws Black by a goal.

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
How did the teams of 2021 do? I read that Express and 91 Smash did well. Was wondering how the others did.
j

I saw that 91 Orange went 3-0. And I know that Legacy beat Outlaws Black by a goal.
Thank you for the info. We had a great day, kids had fun.

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
How did the teams of 2021 do? I read that Express and 91 Smash did well. Was wondering how the others did.
I think the people running the Fall Brawl did a good job lining up the teams to play one another. It seemed to me that they kept the A teams playing the A teams and the B teams with the B teams. The Legacy Titans went 3-0 against Outlaw Silver, 91 Stampede, and 91 White. I thought that all the parents handled themselves very well and the players had great sportsmanship.

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This thread has been very quiet. How is the town and travel teams looking for Spring and summer for 2021

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Team LI is ready to take the #1 spot!!!!

See you all in the spring.

smile

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who is going to shamrock shoot out.

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Team LI is ready to take the #1 spot!!!!

See you all in the spring.

smile


HOPE TO SEE YOU AT SHAMROCK ....STOP DUCKING AND SHOW UP WHERE THE REAL TEAMS ARE ....IF YOU WANT TO BE #1 YOU HAVE TO PLAY #1 and BEAT THEM and WE ALL KNOW WHO THAT IS

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Everyone knows Team LI cheats with older players that's why they don't play in any real tournaments or LI tournaments !!

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Everyone knows Team LI cheats with older players that's why they don't play in any real tournaments or LI tournaments !!


Actually, Team LI is the only organization that plays by US Lacrosse rules! I'm sure Cage will confirm. Stop reaching for excuses, you are embarrassing yourself!

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Not to mention I bet over half of the Islands best teams have kids OLDER then on team long island, they where just held back.Most tournaments off LONG Island are done by U brackets. I dont think they are the only team on the Island that plays by US lax rules either. They have a very good team at this age group, I dont think they are batter then Igloo but on par woth 91, Express and Icon.
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Everyone knows Team LI cheats with older players that's why they don't play in any real tournaments or LI tournaments !!


Actually, Team LI is the only organization that plays by US Lacrosse rules! I'm sure Cage will confirm. Stop reaching for excuses, you are embarrassing yourself!

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Well you what is stated above is not entirely true. US Lacrosse age guidelines go U9, U11, U13, U15. And TLI goes U9, U10, U11, U12, U13, U14, etc. That means the even year teams should play the grad year teams determined by whatever the highest grade of any team member is. For example, a U10 team should play 2021 in a grad year tourney even if there is one 5th grader on the team not claim to be a 2022 team and justify it by saying there are older kids in 4th grade. A U10 team this summer (unless really good) should play in the B division of a U based tourney. I have to say I agree with age based requirements and like the setup of TLI. However, US lacrosse for some reason goes with a 24 month age spread, which has always puzzled me.

http://www.uslacrosse.org/rules/age-eligibility-guidelines.aspx

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Why bother explaining this. You are not going to change some of these parents minds. They see what they want to see and interpret rules to feel better about the team their kid is on. I say let the kids and teams do the talking with play on the field. No team has ever beat TLI, Igloo, Icon, 91, Express or any other team on BOTC. If I left anyone out it was not intentional. Just remember the more elite teams we have the better it is for all 2021 kids as they reach 8th grade and above. Good luck to all the boys and teams this season.

Originally Posted by Anonymous
Well you what is stated above is not entirely true. US Lacrosse age guidelines go U9, U11, U13, U15. And TLI goes U9, U10, U11, U12, U13, U14, etc. That means the even year teams should play the grad year teams determined by whatever the highest grade of any team member is. For example, a U10 team should play 2021 in a grad year tourney even if there is one 5th grader on the team not claim to be a 2022 team and justify it by saying there are older kids in 4th grade. A U10 team this summer (unless really good) should play in the B division of a U based tourney. I have to say I agree with age based requirements and like the setup of TLI. However, US lacrosse for some reason goes with a 24 month age spread, which has always puzzled me.

http://www.uslacrosse.org/rules/age-eligibility-guidelines.aspx

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With a week away anyone want to take a stab at the rankings ?

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oh shut up with rankings. Get a life!!

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From a guy reading the BOC threads, you could take your own advice.
Originally Posted by Anonymous
oh shut up with rankings. Get a life!!

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No buddy looking for shamrock schedule and saw your comment in the headings! From a person who probably never saw an athletic field.

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And you'd be wrong
Originally Posted by Anonymous
No buddy looking for shamrock schedule and saw your comment in the headings! From a person who probably never saw an athletic field.

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Yea rankings on what parent creates the most Havoc and from what team during a game or tournament ?
Lets start a separate forum on parental misconduct to expose the parent and organization which can possibly lead to more control in the future of specific ongoing issues from parents on the sideline .

Originally Posted by Anonymous
With a week away anyone want to take a stab at the rankings ?

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Ok I'm wrong end the conversation. But when grown adults are on here with good intentions and come across a comment about 2021 rankings I find it hilarious. This sport has really declined in what it really means because of parents like you. Sorry call it as I see it.

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What year....I think it is going to be the weekend of the upsets and I am looking forward to it!

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Why ? Because i enjoy healthy competition ? Because I have many friends who's kids play on an assortment of teams at this age ? Because I appreciate the product Igloo, Icon and 91 have put out ? I think its cool to see other teams garner steam over the years and start to challenge ? I look forward to seeing how new program alike Legacy do ? Every year theres list of the HS rankings. Over the next few years and before you know it you'll start reading about the better 2021 kids. At what age is it appropriate to have an interest in how the teams stack up ?
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Ok I'm wrong end the conversation. But when grown adults are on here with good intentions and come across a comment about 2021 rankings I find it hilarious. This sport has really declined in what it really means because of parents like you. Sorry call it as I see it.

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A bracket

2021 will be Igloo for another year period !!


Its the Obvious why ask ?

IGLOO Top choice !

Orange is not the same team from 2 years ago but will compete Remember as long as 91 runs most of the tournaments here on Long Island they will always be put on the pedestal. 91 would not risk getting eliminated before getting the chance to play in championship . This is very obvious when they play out of state and in championship games here on long island.

Legacy is way over rated with ex -Orange players that cant get it together , barely compete with top two listed teams , New program will take time to weed and feed team.

Icon orange (old turf island) is up on top of food chain with great players with possible success coming this season time will tell but will compete against the top 2.

Express looks like there's one storm brewing out of the three teams but time will tell with their secret society that has many people frazzled including myself on which team is which?

Jesters , don't think they will compete much if at all in A.

Outlaws Black looks like they can compete need to dial it in.

Team Long Island out of site out of mind secret hidden training facility buried away on north shore they usually surface in late spring , time will tell but compete well as last year they beat Orange in championship , again refrain back to who runs tournaments here on long island.

Missing anyone?





Originally Posted by Anonymous
Why ? Because i enjoy healthy competition ? Because I have many friends who's kids play on an assortment of teams at this age ? Because I appreciate the product Igloo, Icon and 91 have put out ? I think its cool to see other teams garner steam over the years and start to challenge ? I look forward to seeing how new program alike Legacy do ? Every year theres list of the HS rankings. Over the next few years and before you know it you'll start reading about the better 2021 kids. At what age is it appropriate to have an interest in how the teams stack up ?
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Ok I'm wrong end the conversation. But when grown adults are on here with good intentions and come across a comment about 2021 rankings I find it hilarious. This sport has really declined in what it really means because of parents like you. Sorry call it as I see it.

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Get a life you idiot

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Has Vegas come out with the odds yet ? Weed and feed ? Really ?

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Find it very entertaining on the responses , is it salt in the wound? like any good team it takes time to build success. , like it or not truth sometimes hurts and not talking only about the wallet , maybe you were sold "sand on the beach" ?

Originally Posted by Anonymous
Has Vegas come out with the odds yet ? Weed and feed ? Really ?

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I think the team evaluations where right on. Cant wait to see the kids play. Such a great age where you really start to see them take off
Originally Posted by Anonymous

Find it very entertaining on the responses , is it salt in the wound? like any good team it takes time to build success. , like it or not truth sometimes hurts and not talking only about the wallet , maybe you were sold "sand on the beach" ?

Originally Posted by Anonymous
Has Vegas come out with the odds yet ? Weed and feed ? Really ?

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This is completely accurate and while 2 people posted negative comments about this , its obvious some people cant handle the truth . Great predictions !


Originally Posted by Anonymous
A bracket

2021 will be Igloo for another year period !!


Its the Obvious why ask ?

IGLOO Top choice !

Orange is not the same team from 2 years ago but will compete Remember as long as 91 runs most of the tournaments here on Long Island they will always be put on the pedestal. 91 would not risk getting eliminated before getting the chance to play in championship . This is very obvious when they play out of state and in championship games here on long island.

Legacy is way over rated with ex -Orange players that cant get it together , barely compete with top two listed teams , New program will take time to weed and feed team.

Icon orange (old turf island) is up on top of food chain with great players with possible success coming this season time will tell but will compete against the top 2.

Express looks like there's one storm brewing out of the three teams but time will tell with their secret society that has many people frazzled including myself on which team is which?

Jesters , don't think they will compete much if at all in A.

Outlaws Black looks like they can compete need to dial it in.

Team Long Island out of site out of mind secret hidden training facility buried away on north shore they usually surface in late spring , time will tell but compete well as last year they beat Orange in championship , again refrain back to who runs tournaments here on long island.

Missing anyone?





Originally Posted by Anonymous
Why ? Because i enjoy healthy competition ? Because I have many friends who's kids play on an assortment of teams at this age ? Because I appreciate the product Igloo, Icon and 91 have put out ? I think its cool to see other teams garner steam over the years and start to challenge ? I look forward to seeing how new program alike Legacy do ? Every year theres list of the HS rankings. Over the next few years and before you know it you'll start reading about the better 2021 kids. At what age is it appropriate to have an interest in how the teams stack up ?
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Ok I'm wrong end the conversation. But when grown adults are on here with good intentions and come across a comment about 2021 rankings I find it hilarious. This sport has really declined in what it really means because of parents like you. Sorry call it as I see it.

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Originally Posted by Anonymous

Find it very entertaining on the responses , is it salt in the wound? like any good team it takes time to build success. , like it or not truth sometimes hurts and not talking only about the wallet , maybe you were sold "sand on the beach" ?

Originally Posted by Anonymous
Has Vegas come out with the odds yet ? Weed and feed ? Really ?
I wasn't sold anything. My kid is several years older and doesn't play for Legacy. I look at the other age threads because I get a kick at how twisted some people are about the serious business of 5th grade lacrosse. It seems to be growing to younger age groups every year.

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Where are the WildKatz? Are they extinct?

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Where are the WildKatz? Are they extinct?


I heard they disbanded. Some to Igloo, some to other clubs.

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They are under another name and still practicing together in a secluded cave out east , word has it they are looking to play in B bracket again to take another victory from Smash as one poster had recently said smash will beat most A 2021 teams but lost last year to a non organized low budget pick-up team in Stony Brook championship.


Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Where are the WildKatz? Are they extinct?


I heard they disbanded. Some to Igloo, some to other clubs.

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