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Commitment - How Much Athletic Money are Girls Really Getting?
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Hi All...All this discussion about girls making commitments to play lax in college and clubs bragging about commits...
What is the reality in athletic money given? Now we know that "full ride" is not a reality but people will tell you their daughter is. So what is the average amount given to a student playing Lax in College?

For example, My wife tells everyone that my daughter got a full ride, when she actually is receiving 15k in athletic money and 15k in academic/grant money, 7K in need based Financial aid and the remaining 10k money in loans.


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Originally Posted by LaxDad129
Hi All...All this discussion about girls making commitments to play lax in college and clubs bragging about commits...
What is the reality in athletic money given? Now we know that "full ride" is not a reality but people will tell you their daughter is. So what is the average amount given to a student playing Lax in College?

For example, My wife tells everyone that my daughter got a full ride, when she actually is receiving 15k in athletic money and 15k in academic/grant money, 7K in need based Financial aid and the remaining 10k money in loans.



Dude....first of all no one should ever discuss the amount of money they are getting. It's rude and frankly ridiculous. Second it's no one else's business. Third the coach does not want you telling anyone that info. And lastly there is no average scholarship amount as it is as different as each player.
P.s. Full athletic scholarships do exist.

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by LaxDad129
Hi All...All this discussion about girls making commitments to play lax in college and clubs bragging about commits...
What is the reality in athletic money given? Now we know that "full ride" is not a reality but people will tell you their daughter is. So what is the average amount given to a student playing Lax in College?

For example, My wife tells everyone that my daughter got a full ride, when she actually is receiving 15k in athletic money and 15k in academic/grant money, 7K in need based Financial aid and the remaining 10k money in loans.



Dude....first of all no one should ever discuss the amount of money they are getting. It's rude and frankly ridiculous. Second it's no one else's business. Third the coach does not want you telling anyone that info. And lastly there is no average scholarship amount as it is as different as each player.
P.s. Full athletic scholarships do exist.
Just not in woman's lacrosse

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dont see how its rude to post what p[eople are getting and can expect. The travel loonies base their existence on getting some cash in school why not share some facts. 2% of girls will get some cash and full rides are almost never happen unless bundled with academics but you need the grades so it doesnt count against the teams academic scholorships

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
dont see how its rude to post what p[eople are getting and can expect. The travel loonies base their existence on getting some cash in school why not share some facts. 2% of girls will get some cash and full rides are almost never happen unless bundled with academics but you need the grades so it doesnt count against the teams academic scholorships


Look...you can say what you wish. Everyone here does anyway whether true or not. Full rides do exist. Fact. Also there is not a single player or parent who should say what they are getting. If you are asking then you are obviously lacking some self respect.

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by LaxDad129
Hi All...All this discussion about girls making commitments to play lax in college and clubs bragging about commits...
What is the reality in athletic money given? Now we know that "full ride" is not a reality but people will tell you their daughter is. So what is the average amount given to a student playing Lax in College?

For example, My wife tells everyone that my daughter got a full ride, when she actually is receiving 15k in athletic money and 15k in academic/grant money, 7K in need based Financial aid and the remaining 10k money in loans.



Dude....first of all no one should ever discuss the amount of money they are getting. It's rude and frankly ridiculous. Second it's no one else's business. Third the coach does not want you telling anyone that info. And lastly there is no average scholarship amount as it is as different as each player.
P.s. Full athletic scholarships do exist.
Just not in woman's lacrosse


Agreed!! The high scholarship amounts may go to an extremely academically and athletically gifted girl going to a school that is not as presigious as she is deserving of. Sometimes it comes down to money. Go to a mediocre school with a nearly full ride, or go to Duke with a 25% tuition. BIGGGG financial diference! Trade off, we all do it!

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by LaxDad129
Hi All...All this discussion about girls making commitments to play lax in college and clubs bragging about commits...
What is the reality in athletic money given? Now we know that "full ride" is not a reality but people will tell you their daughter is. So what is the average amount given to a student playing Lax in College?

For example, My wife tells everyone that my daughter got a full ride, when she actually is receiving 15k in athletic money and 15k in academic/grant money, 7K in need based Financial aid and the remaining 10k money in loans.



Dude....first of all no one should ever discuss the amount of money they are getting. It's rude and frankly ridiculous. Second it's no one else's business. Third the coach does not want you telling anyone that info. And lastly there is no average scholarship amount as it is as different as each player.
P.s. Full athletic scholarships do exist.
Just not in woman's lacrosse


Agreed!! The high scholarship amounts may go to an extremely academically and athletically gifted girl going to a school that is not as presigious as she is deserving of. Sometimes it comes down to money. Go to a mediocre school with a nearly full ride, or go to Duke with a 25% tuition. BIGGGG financial diference! Trade off, we all do it!


No Way, a sane response, can't be.

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by LaxDad129
Hi All...All this discussion about girls making commitments to play lax in college and clubs bragging about commits...
What is the reality in athletic money given? Now we know that "full ride" is not a reality but people will tell you their daughter is. So what is the average amount given to a student playing Lax in College?

For example, My wife tells everyone that my daughter got a full ride, when she actually is receiving 15k in athletic money and 15k in academic/grant money, 7K in need based Financial aid and the remaining 10k money in loans.



Dude....first of all no one should ever discuss the amount of money they are getting. It's rude and frankly ridiculous. Second it's no one else's business. Third the coach does not want you telling anyone that info. And lastly there is no average scholarship amount as it is as different as each player.
P.s. Full athletic scholarships do exist.
Just not in woman's lacrosse


Agreed!! The high scholarship amounts may go to an extremely academically and athletically gifted girl going to a school that is not as presigious as she is deserving of. Sometimes it comes down to money. Go to a mediocre school with a nearly full ride, or go to Duke with a 25% tuition. BIGGGG financial diference! Trade off, we all do it!


Your OPINION. Fact is different. First hand knowledge here. I don't think Notre Dame is a mediocre college do you? I love when people state an uninformed opinion and call it fact. Just because a girl doesn't get a substantial scholarship doesn't mean they are not common for better players.

The comments about the lack of scholarships or full scholarships are coming from those who aren't getting them. The ones who are getting the big money keep quiet about it. As it should be.

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Originally Posted by LaxDad129
Hi All...All this discussion about girls making commitments to play lax in college and clubs bragging about commits...
What is the reality in athletic money given? Now we know that "full ride" is not a reality but people will tell you their daughter is. So what is the average amount given to a student playing Lax in College?

For example, My wife tells everyone that my daughter got a full ride, when she actually is receiving 15k in athletic money and 15k in academic/grant money, 7K in need based Financial aid and the remaining 10k money in loans.



Maybe you should speak to the coaches and athletic representatives from the schools your daughter has on her wish list. FIRST you should talk to her HS and club coaches and get an honest evaluation of her talent level. Too many people over estimate that level, get no or very little $ and [lacrosse] and complain about the system. Hopefully you are not one of those people and will do the leg work we all have done and will not listen to the faceless opinions of some posters here.

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by LaxDad129
Hi All...All this discussion about girls making commitments to play lax in college and clubs bragging about commits...
What is the reality in athletic money given? Now we know that "full ride" is not a reality but people will tell you their daughter is. So what is the average amount given to a student playing Lax in College?

For example, My wife tells everyone that my daughter got a full ride, when she actually is receiving 15k in athletic money and 15k in academic/grant money, 7K in need based Financial aid and the remaining 10k money in loans.



Dude....first of all no one should ever discuss the amount of money they are getting. It's rude and frankly ridiculous. Second it's no one else's business. Third the coach does not want you telling anyone that info. And lastly there is no average scholarship amount as it is as different as each player.
P.s. Full athletic scholarships do exist.
Just not in woman's lacrosse


Agreed!! The high scholarship amounts may go to an extremely academically and athletically gifted girl going to a school that is not as presigious as she is deserving of. Sometimes it comes down to money. Go to a mediocre school with a nearly full ride, or go to Duke with a 25% tuition. BIGGGG financial diference! Trade off, we all do it!


No Way, a sane response, can't be.


Sane? How about sour grapes....and stop commenting on your own posts wink

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by LaxDad129
Hi All...All this discussion about girls making commitments to play lax in college and clubs bragging about commits...
What is the reality in athletic money given? Now we know that "full ride" is not a reality but people will tell you their daughter is. So what is the average amount given to a student playing Lax in College?

For example, My wife tells everyone that my daughter got a full ride, when she actually is receiving 15k in athletic money and 15k in academic/grant money, 7K in need based Financial aid and the remaining 10k money in loans.



Dude....first of all no one should ever discuss the amount of money they are getting. It's rude and frankly ridiculous. Second it's no one else's business. Third the coach does not want you telling anyone that info. And lastly there is no average scholarship amount as it is as different as each player.
P.s. Full athletic scholarships do exist.
Just not in woman's lacrosse


Agreed!! The high scholarship amounts may go to an extremely academically and athletically gifted girl going to a school that is not as presigious as she is deserving of. Sometimes it comes down to money. Go to a mediocre school with a nearly full ride, or go to Duke with a 25% tuition. BIGGGG financial diference! Trade off, we all do it!


No Way, a sane response, can't be.


Sane? How about sour grapes....and stop commenting on your own posts wink


Dont see how it's sour? Ussually a trade down gets you more cash and is available to more kids. Only the chosen few get really big time money to a big time program.

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Sorry to tell you. There is no big time money in a true big time program at the most elite schools. Fact is they don't have too. There are so many top notch kids dying to go there that they are happy with their 25%. And if that is not enough cash, there is someone else just as good waiting in line. Other schools have to give big scholarships to attract those top kids. If anyone tells you different, they are lying!

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Sorry to tell you. There is no big time money in a true big time program at the most elite schools. Fact is they don't have too. There are so many top notch kids dying to go there that they are happy with their 25%. And if that is not enough cash, there is someone else just as good waiting in line. Other schools have to give big scholarships to attract those top kids. If anyone tells you different, they are lying!


YOU ARE SO WRONG!
My daughter is committed to a big time, elite (top 20) school and received, as you say, big money. We know of some others in the same boat. So once again your OPINION is wrong. Take it from someone going through it now not someone who may have missed the boat.

Do not listen to gossip being typed by those who have an axe to grind. Their words are not worth the shavings on the ground!

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I think its safe to agree to disagree.. I'm sure the top recruits in the country are getting big $. but after those 20 or so it has to drop significantly. most D-1 teams are carrying 30 players, 1 may get a lot, most get a little, and some get none.
the #1 recruit last year went to Notre Dame, I'm sure she did very very well. but I'm guessing her teammate who went to Stonybrook got 20% to 30%

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Sorry to tell you. There is no big time money in a true big time program at the most elite schools. Fact is they don't have too. There are so many top notch kids dying to go there that they are happy with their 25%. And if that is not enough cash, there is someone else just as good waiting in line. Other schools have to give big scholarships to attract those top kids. If anyone tells you different, they are lying!


YOU ARE SO WRONG!

I don't believe you for one minute! There is nobody getting full rides in lacrosse! Full ride being 100% of tuition AND room and board in ATHLETIC money. You may be getting grants aid and academic money that are coningent on rigorous standards. That is not the same as an athletic full ride, sorry.
My daughter is committed to a big time, elite (top 20) school and received, as you say, big money. We know of some others in the same boat. So once again your OPINION is wrong. Take it from someone going through it now not someone who may have missed the boat.

Do not listen to gossip being typed by those who have an axe to grind. Their words are not worth the shavings on the ground!

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Sorry to tell you. There is no big time money in a true big time program at the most elite schools. Fact is they don't have too. There are so many top notch kids dying to go there that they are happy with their 25%. And if that is not enough cash, there is someone else just as good waiting in line. Other schools have to give big scholarships to attract those top kids. If anyone tells you different, they are lying!
this is very true, U.N.C , N.W. U.V.A. also carry larger rosters,with more players at each position. For example (being the father of a goalie I track this) Maryland, U.V.A. Notre Dame and Florida all tale a goalie every year ( more or less) while a loyola will only take every third. (most schools only carry a junior and freshman , senior, soph combo) So with only 12 full scholarships every 4 years they couldn't possibly waste a "full ride" on a single player, especially not on a freshman. with a roster of about 25, that is less than 0.5 each player, and if you don't know most schools will give upperclassmen more on a performance basis . also keep this in mind, there is no limit on how many girls can be on a team, the "Big" programs carry closer to 30, so the likelihood of getting a "full ride " at those schools are pretty small, especially as a freshman. If a parent tells you that there daughter got a "full Ride offer" there probably embellishing, like a earlier poster said it's a combo of financial aid , grants and scholarships. But there are those parents that even at this late recruiting age that "My kid is so much better than yours that WE get the biggest prize" Just chuckle and walk away.










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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Sorry to tell you. There is no big time money in a true big time program at the most elite schools. Fact is they don't have too. There are so many top notch kids dying to go there that they are happy with their 25%. And if that is not enough cash, there is someone else just as good waiting in line. Other schools have to give big scholarships to attract those top kids. If anyone tells you different, they are lying!


YOU ARE SO WRONG!

I don't believe you for one minute! There is nobody getting full rides in lacrosse! Full ride being 100% of tuition AND room and board in ATHLETIC money. You may be getting grants aid and academic money that are coningent on rigorous standards. That is not the same as an athletic full ride, sorry.
My daughter is committed to a big time, elite (top 20) school and received, as you say, big money. We know of some others in the same boat. So once again your OPINION is wrong. Take it from someone going through it now not someone who may have missed the boat.

Do not listen to gossip being typed by those who have an axe to grind. Their words are not worth the shavings on the ground!


Top 20 is not the same as top 5. First of all Ivy schools do not give athletic money, and schools like Duke do not ever give much athletic money BECAUSE THEY DON'T HAVE TO!! There are plenty of other princesses like your daughter with the same awesome skill set whose daddies are more than happy to pay full cost just to go there. I suspect you may have got some decent money maybe 40% of tuition to a school like Georgetown, wich by the way is a great school, but not Top 5!!! It also only comes out to about 20k a year, while full cost is acbout 60k. Stop saying you got a full ride. Also if you did not sign a letter of intent, you may be dissapointed when you do not recieve all that academic money diguised as an athletic scholarship when you don't make the SAT grade. Full rides are not given at the top schools, meaning superelite non ivies such as Duke, Georgetown,Virginia,Notre Dame UNC In decending order of eliteness). The other schools in top 20 are not in the same league of presitige (obviously not counting Ivies because they do not give athletic money) If you did get as you say a "full ride", I'm sure it was not at any of the true elite schools I mentioned. Still great schools, but you traded money for prestige.

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Sorry to tell you. There is no big time money in a true big time program at the most elite schools. Fact is they don't have too. There are so many top notch kids dying to go there that they are happy with their 25%. And if that is not enough cash, there is someone else just as good waiting in line. Other schools have to give big scholarships to attract those top kids. If anyone tells you different, they are lying!


YOU ARE SO WRONG!

Thanks CR
My daughter is committed to a big time, elite (top 20) school and received, as you say, big money. We know of some others in the same boat. So once again your OPINION is wrong. Take it from someone going through it now not someone who may have missed the boat.

Do not listen to gossip being typed by those who have an axe to grind. Their words are not worth the shavings on the ground!

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Sorry to tell you. There is no big time money in a true big time program at the most elite schools. Fact is they don't have too. There are so many top notch kids dying to go there that they are happy with their 25%. And if that is not enough cash, there is someone else just as good waiting in line. Other schools have to give big scholarships to attract those top kids. If anyone tells you different, they are lying!


YOU ARE SO WRONG!

I don't believe you for one minute! There is nobody getting full rides in lacrosse! Full ride being 100% of tuition AND room and board in ATHLETIC money. You may be getting grants aid and academic money that are coningent on rigorous standards. That is not the same as an athletic full ride, sorry.
My daughter is committed to a big time, elite (top 20) school and received, as you say, big money. We know of some others in the same boat. So once again your OPINION is wrong. Take it from someone going through it now not someone who may have missed the boat.

Do not listen to gossip being typed by those who have an axe to grind. Their words are not worth the shavings on the ground!


Stop making blanket statements!!! Every situation is different and every program has their own philosophy. Some "Big Time" top 20 schools like to spread the money around (give 25 -60%) and get more kids that are very good and have a chance to be starters. Some of the "Big Time" top 10 schools like to identify 2-4 girls they feel are "can't miss" impact players that they offer 75% plus to. YES some FULL RIDES (athletic, including room, board and books))!!! They are able to do this because they will get Very good players to go there for little or no money, because they are happy to get into a great college and have a chance to win a national championship. (who knows, they may get academic or financial money as well.
For anyone who is looking for a college for their daughter, get as much as you can. Don't be afraid to ask. They will tell you no or they just may surprise you. For the people keep saying it doesn't exist, you are only looking at your own situation or the people you know. A better way to put it is that "it is not very common to get a Full Ride, so if you are counting on that then you may be disappointed"!



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Originally Posted by Anonymous
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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Sorry to tell you. There is no big time money in a true big time program at the most elite schools. Fact is they don't have too. There are so many top notch kids dying to go there that they are happy with their 25%. And if that is not enough cash, there is someone else just as good waiting in line. Other schools have to give big scholarships to attract those top kids. If anyone tells you different, they are lying!


YOU ARE SO WRONG!

I don't believe you for one minute! There is nobody getting full rides in lacrosse! Full ride being 100% of tuition AND room and board in ATHLETIC money. You may be getting grants aid and academic money that are coningent on rigorous standards. That is not the same as an athletic full ride, sorry.
My daughter is committed to a big time, elite (top 20) school and received, as you say, big money. We know of some others in the same boat. So once again your OPINION is wrong. Take it from someone going through it now not someone who may have missed the boat.

Do not listen to gossip being typed by those who have an axe to grind. Their words are not worth the shavings on the ground!


Stop making blanket statements!!! Every situation is different and every program has their own philosophy. Some "Big Time" top 20 schools like to spread the money around (give 25 -60%) and get more kids that are very good and have a chance to be starters. Some of the "Big Time" top 10 schools like to identify 2-4 girls they feel are "can't miss" impact players that they offer 75% plus to. YES some FULL RIDES (athletic, including room, board and books))!!! They are able to do this because they will get Very good players to go there for little or no money, because they are happy to get into a great college and have a chance to win a national championship. (who knows, they may get academic or financial money as well.
For anyone who is looking for a college for their daughter, get as much as you can. Don't be afraid to ask. They will tell you no or they just may surprise you. For the people keep saying it doesn't exist, you are only looking at your own situation or the people you know. A better way to put it is that "it is not very common to get a Full Ride, so if you are counting on that then you may be disappointed"!




Agreed for the most part, but what you are talking about happens at schools like Maryland and Syracuse, not the super elite, because again, THEY DON'T HAVE TO! Maryland will lure in a UNC or Duke bound girl with a big scholarship. Super elite schools do not give full rides! I have been through this as well and am very friendly with girls ranked in the top 10 nationally. The only ones who got large amounts of money were the ones that sacrificed prestige for $$

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Sorry to tell you. There is no big time money in a true big time program at the most elite schools. Fact is they don't have too. There are so many top notch kids dying to go there that they are happy with their 25%. And if that is not enough cash, there is someone else just as good waiting in line. Other schools have to give big scholarships to attract those top kids. If anyone tells you different, they are lying!


YOU ARE SO WRONG!

I don't believe you for one minute! There is nobody getting full rides in lacrosse! Full ride being 100% of tuition AND room and board in ATHLETIC money. You may be getting grants aid and academic money that are coningent on rigorous standards. That is not the same as an athletic full ride, sorry.
My daughter is committed to a big time, elite (top 20) school and received, as you say, big money. We know of some others in the same boat. So once again your OPINION is wrong. Take it from someone going through it now not someone who may have missed the boat.

Do not listen to gossip being typed by those who have an axe to grind. Their words are not worth the shavings on the ground!


Stop making blanket statements!!! Every situation is different and every program has their own philosophy. Some "Big Time" top 20 schools like to spread the money around (give 25 -60%) and get more kids that are very good and have a chance to be starters. Some of the "Big Time" top 10 schools like to identify 2-4 girls they feel are "can't miss" impact players that they offer 75% plus to. YES some FULL RIDES (athletic, including room, board and books))!!! They are able to do this because they will get Very good players to go there for little or no money, because they are happy to get into a great college and have a chance to win a national championship. (who knows, they may get academic or financial money as well.
For anyone who is looking for a college for their daughter, get as much as you can. Don't be afraid to ask. They will tell you no or they just may surprise you. For the people keep saying it doesn't exist, you are only looking at your own situation or the people you know. A better way to put it is that "it is not very common to get a Full Ride, so if you are counting on that then you may be disappointed"!




Agreed for the most part, but what you are talking about happens at schools like Maryland and Syracuse, not the super elite, because again, THEY DON'T HAVE TO! Maryland will lure in a UNC or Duke bound girl with a big scholarship. Super elite schools do not give full rides! I have been through this as well and am very friendly with girls ranked in the top 10 nationally. The only ones who got large amounts of money were the ones that sacrificed prestige for $$


If Duke is in your "prestige" school, I know they offer 80% plus!
I also don't think a kid is sacrificing anything by choosing Maryland ,USC, Florida, Penn State,Michigan, Ohio State etc.. over your so called prestige schools. Some families put more weight in having the right fit and a big time college experience. Some may think you are sacrificing by going to a smaller school with less going on. Its all preference! The academics at those schools are all top 50 with all the bells and whistles. Many would take less money to attend those schools. There are many kids that will pick (and have) those schools over your "prestige" schools given the finances are the same. I know I would! Again, every situation is different and for the right kid a Full scholarship will be there at any school!

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Stop making blanket statements!!! Every situation is different and every program has their own philosophy. Some "Big Time" top 20 schools like to spread the money around (give 25 -60%) and get more kids that are very good and have a chance to be starters. Some of the "Big Time" top 10 schools like to identify 2-4 girls they feel are "can't miss" impact players that they offer 75% plus to. YES some FULL RIDES (athletic, including room, board and books))!!! They are able to do this because they will get Very good players to go there for little or no money, because they are happy to get into a great college and have a chance to win a national championship. (who knows, they may get academic or financial money as well.
Please allow BOTC to offer some calculation based on your numbers.

First, let's look at the NCAA scholarship counts. Remember that lacrosse is an equivilency sport which allows for fractionated scholarship offers and that these are measured not in terms of dollars but annual funding of a single spot.

NCAA D1 Sport ...... Men's Women's
Lacrosse ........... 12.6 / 12.0

NCAA D2 Sport ...... Men's Women's
Lacrosse ........... 10.8 / 9.9


For ease of calculations, let's just use a total team scholarship count of 12.0.

Your calculations suggest 25%-60% athletic scholarships are awarded. If the average recruiting class contains 10 student-athletes, that would imply upwards of 2.5 total scholarships to a freshman class. If you assume the midpoint, that would imply 4.25 scholarships which over four class years would come out to 17.0 scholarships exceeding the NCAA limit. Hence, clearly, an average of 0.425 across 10 recruits is too high.

Now, let's go to your 75% estimate for a targeted set of 4 can't-miss recruits. That would come to 3.0 scholarships which multiplied by 4 classes would imply the full allocation of 12.0 awards. Hence, no other entering students would receive money nor would any existing award winner see their award increased. So, clearly four student-athletes getting 0.75 athletic scholarship does not work either.

Hence, we can conclude that both of your sets of numbers are wrong. If that does not convince you, let's try it this way : What very good player will attend an institution for no athletic scholarship in order to allow four other players to harvest the bounty?

BOTC has said the same thing over and over - a 0.25 offer is a solid freshman offer on average. If you work the numbers from a 0.25 base, you will start to understand why that award becomes the standard.

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Originally Posted by CageSage
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Stop making blanket statements!!! Every situation is different and every program has their own philosophy. Some "Big Time" top 20 schools like to spread the money around (give 25 -60%) and get more kids that are very good and have a chance to be starters. Some of the "Big Time" top 10 schools like to identify 2-4 girls they feel are "can't miss" impact players that they offer 75% plus to. YES some FULL RIDES (athletic, including room, board and books))!!! They are able to do this because they will get Very good players to go there for little or no money, because they are happy to get into a great college and have a chance to win a national championship. (who knows, they may get academic or financial money as well.
Please allow BOTC to offer some calculation based on your numbers.

First, let's look at the NCAA scholarship counts. Remember that lacrosse is an equivilency sport which allows for fractionated scholarship offers and that these are measured not in terms of dollars but annual funding of a single spot.

NCAA D1 Sport ...... Men's Women's
Lacrosse ........... 12.6 / 12.0

NCAA D2 Sport ...... Men's Women's
Lacrosse ........... 10.8 / 9.9


For ease of calculations, let's just use a total team scholarship count of 12.0.

Your calculations suggest 25%-60% athletic scholarships are awarded. If the average recruiting class contains 10 student-athletes, that would imply upwards of 2.5 total scholarships to a freshman class. If you assume the midpoint, that would imply 4.25 scholarships which over four class years would come out to 17.0 scholarships exceeding the NCAA limit. Hence, clearly, an average of 0.425 across 10 recruits is too high.

Now, let's go to your 75% estimate for a targeted set of 4 can't-miss recruits. That would come to 3.0 scholarships which multiplied by 4 classes would imply the full allocation of 12.0 awards. Hence, no other entering students would receive money nor would any existing award winner see their award increased. So, clearly four student-athletes getting 0.75 athletic scholarship does not work either.

Hence, we can conclude that both of your sets of numbers are wrong. If that does not convince you, let's try it this way : What very good player will attend an institution for no athletic scholarship in order to allow four other players to harvest the bounty?

BOTC has said the same thing over and over - a 0.25 offer is a solid freshman offer on average. If you work the numbers from a 0.25 base, you will start to understand why that award becomes the standard.

Cage
If u look closer at my post I wrote that some kids don't receive anything or will get academic or financial money. When I say 25-60 % there may only be one recruit a year who gets 60% or maybe in some cases none, but if they really value you they will go to that level. And for the other scenario I wrote 2-4. Some years may be 2 which might only eat up 1.5 scholarships then the other 10 will get 0 - 25% . Again many will get just academic money much like the schools who are not fully funded. It may change year to year based on how good they think the recruit is. I have asked the questions and sat in front of many of the schools you are referring to. Don't get me wrong, I am not trying to say a 25% scholarship is not good. I am just saying that there may be more out there to get with some schools because their strategy is different.

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Originally Posted by CageSage
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Stop making blanket statements!!! Every situation is different and every program has their own philosophy. Some "Big Time" top 20 schools like to spread the money around (give 25 -60%) and get more kids that are very good and have a chance to be starters. Some of the "Big Time" top 10 schools like to identify 2-4 girls they feel are "can't miss" impact players that they offer 75% plus to. YES some FULL RIDES (athletic, including room, board and books))!!! They are able to do this because they will get Very good players to go there for little or no money, because they are happy to get into a great college and have a chance to win a national championship. (who knows, they may get academic or financial money as well.
Please allow BOTC to offer some calculation based on your numbers.

First, let's look at the NCAA scholarship counts. Remember that lacrosse is an equivilency sport which allows for fractionated scholarship offers and that these are measured not in terms of dollars but annual funding of a single spot.

NCAA D1 Sport ...... Men's Women's
Lacrosse ........... 12.6 / 12.0

NCAA D2 Sport ...... Men's Women's
Lacrosse ........... 10.8 / 9.9


For ease of calculations, let's just use a total team scholarship count of 12.0.

Your calculations suggest 25%-60% athletic scholarships are awarded. If the average recruiting class contains 10 student-athletes, that would imply upwards of 2.5 total scholarships to a freshman class. If you assume the midpoint, that would imply 4.25 scholarships which over four class years would come out to 17.0 scholarships exceeding the NCAA limit. Hence, clearly, an average of 0.425 across 10 recruits is too high.

Now, let's go to your 75% estimate for a targeted set of 4 can't-miss recruits. That would come to 3.0 scholarships which multiplied by 4 classes would imply the full allocation of 12.0 awards. Hence, no other entering students would receive money nor would any existing award winner see their award increased. So, clearly four student-athletes getting 0.75 athletic scholarship does not work either.

Hence, we can conclude that both of your sets of numbers are wrong. If that does not convince you, let's try it this way : What very good player will attend an institution for no athletic scholarship in order to allow four other players to harvest the bounty?

BOTC has said the same thing over and over - a 0.25 offer is a solid freshman offer on average. If you work the numbers from a 0.25 base, you will start to understand why that award becomes the standard.
Thank you, a voice of factual reason!

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Originally Posted by CageSage
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Stop making blanket statements!!! Every situation is different and every program has their own philosophy. Some "Big Time" top 20 schools like to spread the money around (give 25 -60%) and get more kids that are very good and have a chance to be starters. Some of the "Big Time" top 10 schools like to identify 2-4 girls they feel are "can't miss" impact players that they offer 75% plus to. YES some FULL RIDES (athletic, including room, board and books))!!! They are able to do this because they will get Very good players to go there for little or no money, because they are happy to get into a great college and have a chance to win a national championship. (who knows, they may get academic or financial money as well.
Please allow BOTC to offer some calculation based on your numbers.

First, let's look at the NCAA scholarship counts. Remember that lacrosse is an equivilency sport which allows for fractionated scholarship offers and that these are measured not in terms of dollars but annual funding of a single spot.

NCAA D1 Sport ...... Men's Women's
Lacrosse ........... 12.6 / 12.0

NCAA D2 Sport ...... Men's Women's
Lacrosse ........... 10.8 / 9.9


For ease of calculations, let's just use a total team scholarship count of 12.0.

Your calculations suggest 25%-60% athletic scholarships are awarded. If the average recruiting class contains 10 student-athletes, that would imply upwards of 2.5 total scholarships to a freshman class. If you assume the midpoint, that would imply 4.25 scholarships which over four class years would come out to 17.0 scholarships exceeding the NCAA limit. Hence, clearly, an average of 0.425 across 10 recruits is too high.

Now, let's go to your 75% estimate for a targeted set of 4 can't-miss recruits. That would come to 3.0 scholarships which multiplied by 4 classes would imply the full allocation of 12.0 awards. Hence, no other entering students would receive money nor would any existing award winner see their award increased. So, clearly four student-athletes getting 0.75 athletic scholarship does not work either.

Hence, we can conclude that both of your sets of numbers are wrong. If that does not convince you, let's try it this way : What very good player will attend an institution for no athletic scholarship in order to allow four other players to harvest the bounty?

BOTC has said the same thing over and over - a 0.25 offer is a solid freshman offer on average. If you work the numbers from a 0.25 base, you will start to understand why that award becomes the standard.


Cage,
You also have to take into account the public vs. private cost differential when you ask what very good player would take no academic money. Lets look at Duke vs. UNC/Penn State/FLA/Ohio State etc..
Duke cost approximately 64k
State schools average about 38k.

Duke (or other privates) would have to offer players a 40% scholarship just to get to the same starting point of the state schools. So in this case when comparing it may be a wise decision to take no athletic money over 20% from a private. Throw in some financial or academic money it makes sense.

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
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Sorry to tell you. There is no big time money in a true big time program at the most elite schools. Fact is they don't have too. There are so many top notch kids dying to go there that they are happy with their 25%. And if that is not enough cash, there is someone else just as good waiting in line. Other schools have to give big scholarships to attract those top kids. If anyone tells you different, they are lying!


YOU ARE SO WRONG!

I don't believe you for one minute! There is nobody getting full rides in lacrosse! Full ride being 100% of tuition AND room and board in ATHLETIC money. You may be getting grants aid and academic money that are coningent on rigorous standards. That is not the same as an athletic full ride, sorry.
My daughter is committed to a big time, elite (top 20) school and received, as you say, big money. We know of some others in the same boat. So once again your OPINION is wrong. Take it from someone going through it now not someone who may have missed the boat.

Do not listen to gossip being typed by those who have an axe to grind. Their words are not worth the shavings on the ground!


Stop making blanket statements!!! Every situation is different and every program has their own philosophy. Some "Big Time" top 20 schools like to spread the money around (give 25 -60%) and get more kids that are very good and have a chance to be starters. Some of the "Big Time" top 10 schools like to identify 2-4 girls they feel are "can't miss" impact players that they offer 75% plus to. YES some FULL RIDES (athletic, including room, board and books))!!! They are able to do this because they will get Very good players to go there for little or no money, because they are happy to get into a great college and have a chance to win a national championship. (who knows, they may get academic or financial money as well.
For anyone who is looking for a college for their daughter, get as much as you can. Don't be afraid to ask. They will tell you no or they just may surprise you. For the people keep saying it doesn't exist, you are only looking at your own situation or the people you know. A better way to put it is that "it is not very common to get a Full Ride, so if you are counting on that then you may be disappointed"!




Agreed for the most part, but what you are talking about happens at schools like Maryland and Syracuse, not the super elite, because again, THEY DON'T HAVE TO! Maryland will lure in a UNC or Duke bound girl with a big scholarship. Super elite schools do not give full rides! I have been through this as well and am very friendly with girls ranked in the top 10 nationally. The only ones who got large amounts of money were the ones that sacrificed prestige for $$


If Duke is in your "prestige" school, I know they offer 80% plus!
I also don't think a kid is sacrificing anything by choosing Maryland ,USC, Florida, Penn State,Michigan, Ohio State etc.. over your so called prestige schools. Some families put more weight in having the right fit and a big time college experience. Some may think you are sacrificing by going to a smaller school with less going on. Its all preference! The academics at those schools are all top 50 with all the bells and whistles. Many would take less money to attend those schools. There are many kids that will pick (and have) those schools over your "prestige" schools given the finances are the same. I know I would! Again, every situation is different and for the right kid a Full scholarship will be there at any school!


You are correct. Except that Duke giving 80% would be an extremely rare occurrence. I don't know anyone who would pick Maryland or Michigan over Duke with financing the same. Simply wouldn't happen. My own kid was forced to turn down top tier prestige schools for a great top 30 school. We are happy with the decision, because being 160k in debt after graduation is not a good thing, and that is with a .5 tuition scholarship! we simply could not afford it. Got 70% of total at other school which we were thrilled with.

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Sorry to tell you. There is no big time money in a true big time program at the most elite schools. Fact is they don't have too. There are so many top notch kids dying to go there that they are happy with their 25%. And if that is not enough cash, there is someone else just as good waiting in line. Other schools have to give big scholarships to attract those top kids. If anyone tells you different, they are lying!


YOU ARE SO WRONG!

I don't believe you for one minute! There is nobody getting full rides in lacrosse! Full ride being 100% of tuition AND room and board in ATHLETIC money. You may be getting grants aid and academic money that are coningent on rigorous standards. That is not the same as an athletic full ride, sorry.
My daughter is committed to a big time, elite (top 20) school and received, as you say, big money. We know of some others in the same boat. So once again your OPINION is wrong. Take it from someone going through it now not someone who may have missed the boat.

Do not listen to gossip being typed by those who have an axe to grind. Their words are not worth the shavings on the ground!


Stop making blanket statements!!! Every situation is different and every program has their own philosophy. Some "Big Time" top 20 schools like to spread the money around (give 25 -60%) and get more kids that are very good and have a chance to be starters. Some of the "Big Time" top 10 schools like to identify 2-4 girls they feel are "can't miss" impact players that they offer 75% plus to. YES some FULL RIDES (athletic, including room, board and books))!!! They are able to do this because they will get Very good players to go there for little or no money, because they are happy to get into a great college and have a chance to win a national championship. (who knows, they may get academic or financial money as well.
For anyone who is looking for a college for their daughter, get as much as you can. Don't be afraid to ask. They will tell you no or they just may surprise you. For the people keep saying it doesn't exist, you are only looking at your own situation or the people you know. A better way to put it is that "it is not very common to get a Full Ride, so if you are counting on that then you may be disappointed"!




Agreed for the most part, but what you are talking about happens at schools like Maryland and Syracuse, not the super elite, because again, THEY DON'T HAVE TO! Maryland will lure in a UNC or Duke bound girl with a big scholarship. Super elite schools do not give full rides! I have been through this as well and am very friendly with girls ranked in the top 10 nationally. The only ones who got large amounts of money were the ones that sacrificed prestige for $$


If Duke is in your "prestige" school, I know they offer 80% plus!
I also don't think a kid is sacrificing anything by choosing Maryland ,USC, Florida, Penn State,Michigan, Ohio State etc.. over your so called prestige schools. Some families put more weight in having the right fit and a big time college experience. Some may think you are sacrificing by going to a smaller school with less going on. Its all preference! The academics at those schools are all top 50 with all the bells and whistles. Many would take less money to attend those schools. There are many kids that will pick (and have) those schools over your "prestige" schools given the finances are the same. I know I would! Again, every situation is different and for the right kid a Full scholarship will be there at any school!


The top schools do not need to give full rides, no matter how amazing your princess is, sorry.

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It is not as rare as u think! How would you know that anyway? Again, All due respect, More blanket statements! You still are referring to your opinion. Not long ago a girl de committed from UNC for Maryland. I know others who turned own duke for non Prestige schools with the same athletic scholarship. It does happen! and those people are very happy! Not everyone values the same thing in their choice of college

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ok because you negotiated every kids scholarship? moron!

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
ok because you negotiated every kids scholarship? moron!


Agreed poster is a moron, and has no idea what they are talking about. Listen to Cage, he does know what he's talking about!!!

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[quote=Anonymous]It is not as rare as u think! How would you know that anyway? Again, All due respect, More blanket statements! You still are referring to your opinion. Not long ago a girl de committed from UNC for Maryland. I know others who turned own duke for non Prestige schools with the same athletic scholarship. It does happen! and those people are very happy! Not everyone values the same thing in their choice of college [/quote}

UNC for Maryland is not much of a difference. Girl probably got more money and is closer to home. Neither is a prestige school!

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
ok because you negotiated every kids scholarship? moron!


Agreed poster is a moron, and has no idea what they are talking about. Listen to Cage, he does know what he's talking about!!!

Not really, but there is no need to try to convince you that there might be more funds available to your daughter than you might think. As long as you are happy with what you get and if Cage or anyone else says you should be happy with 25% or less than be my guest. I am sure the coaches will be very happy to give the money to someone else. Good luck! lol For the guy who got his daughter 70%, great job (i'm being serious). Your daughter will thank u in 4 years for making a rational decision!

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by CageSage
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Stop making blanket statements!!! Every situation is different and every program has their own philosophy. Some "Big Time" top 20 schools like to spread the money around (give 25 -60%) and get more kids that are very good and have a chance to be starters. Some of the "Big Time" top 10 schools like to identify 2-4 girls they feel are "can't miss" impact players that they offer 75% plus to. YES some FULL RIDES (athletic, including room, board and books))!!! They are able to do this because they will get Very good players to go there for little or no money, because they are happy to get into a great college and have a chance to win a national championship. (who knows, they may get academic or financial money as well.
Please allow BOTC to offer some calculation based on your numbers.

First, let's look at the NCAA scholarship counts. Remember that lacrosse is an equivilency sport which allows for fractionated scholarship offers and that these are measured not in terms of dollars but annual funding of a single spot.

NCAA D1 Sport ...... Men's Women's
Lacrosse ........... 12.6 / 12.0

NCAA D2 Sport ...... Men's Women's
Lacrosse ........... 10.8 / 9.9


For ease of calculations, let's just use a total team scholarship count of 12.0.

Your calculations suggest 25%-60% athletic scholarships are awarded. If the average recruiting class contains 10 student-athletes, that would imply upwards of 2.5 total scholarships to a freshman class. If you assume the midpoint, that would imply 4.25 scholarships which over four class years would come out to 17.0 scholarships exceeding the NCAA limit. Hence, clearly, an average of 0.425 across 10 recruits is too high.

Now, let's go to your 75% estimate for a targeted set of 4 can't-miss recruits. That would come to 3.0 scholarships which multiplied by 4 classes would imply the full allocation of 12.0 awards. Hence, no other entering students would receive money nor would any existing award winner see their award increased. So, clearly four student-athletes getting 0.75 athletic scholarship does not work either.

Hence, we can conclude that both of your sets of numbers are wrong. If that does not convince you, let's try it this way : What very good player will attend an institution for no athletic scholarship in order to allow four other players to harvest the bounty?

BOTC has said the same thing over and over - a 0.25 offer is a solid freshman offer on average. If you work the numbers from a 0.25 base, you will start to understand why that award becomes the standard.

Cage
If u look closer at my post I wrote that some kids don't receive anything or will get academic or financial money. When I say 25-60 % there may only be one recruit a year who gets 60% or maybe in some cases none, but if they really value you they will go to that level. And for the other scenario I wrote 2-4. Some years may be 2 which might only eat up 1.5 scholarships then the other 10 will get 0 - 25% . Again many will get just academic money much like the schools who are not fully funded. It may change year to year based on how good they think the recruit is. I have asked the questions and sat in front of many of the schools you are referring to. Don't get me wrong, I am not trying to say a 25% scholarship is not good. I am just saying that there may be more out there to get with some schools because their strategy is different.


You are RIGHT ON with your reply and that is exactly how it works. We have sat in most of the schools coaches offices last year and you are correct in your analysis. Also to respond to the poster calling everyone a moron...our daughter received full athletic scholarship offers from mostly all of the schools mentioned except Virginia. Morons in glass houses.....

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ok because you negotiated every kids scholarship? moron!


No idiot! You are saying there are NO full scholarships and I am saying your wrong. I negotiated my daughters and it is a full scholarship. Why so hard for you to follow. Apparently either your princess isn't that good or you should have went to that business class in college instead of the bong room and white castle afterwards.

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ok because you negotiated every kids scholarship? moron!


No idiot! You are saying there are NO full scholarships and I am saying your wrong. I negotiated my daughters and it is a full scholarship. Why so hard for you to follow. Apparently either your princess isn't that good or you should have went to that business class in college instead of the bong room and white castle afterwards.


I guess she's going to Hoftsra? Great job! Weird that you're so angry about it.

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
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Originally Posted by CageSage
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Stop making blanket statements!!! Every situation is different and every program has their own philosophy. Some "Big Time" top 20 schools like to spread the money around (give 25 -60%) and get more kids that are very good and have a chance to be starters. Some of the "Big Time" top 10 schools like to identify 2-4 girls they feel are "can't miss" impact players that they offer 75% plus to. YES some FULL RIDES (athletic, including room, board and books))!!! They are able to do this because they will get Very good players to go there for little or no money, because they are happy to get into a great college and have a chance to win a national championship. (who knows, they may get academic or financial money as well.
Please allow BOTC to offer some calculation based on your numbers.

First, let's look at the NCAA scholarship counts. Remember that lacrosse is an equivilency sport which allows for fractionated scholarship offers and that these are measured not in terms of dollars but annual funding of a single spot.

NCAA D1 Sport ...... Men's Women's
Lacrosse ........... 12.6 / 12.0

NCAA D2 Sport ...... Men's Women's
Lacrosse ........... 10.8 / 9.9


For ease of calculations, let's just use a total team scholarship count of 12.0.

Your calculations suggest 25%-60% athletic scholarships are awarded. If the average recruiting class contains 10 student-athletes, that would imply upwards of 2.5 total scholarships to a freshman class. If you assume the midpoint, that would imply 4.25 scholarships which over four class years would come out to 17.0 scholarships exceeding the NCAA limit. Hence, clearly, an average of 0.425 across 10 recruits is too high.

Now, let's go to your 75% estimate for a targeted set of 4 can't-miss recruits. That would come to 3.0 scholarships which multiplied by 4 classes would imply the full allocation of 12.0 awards. Hence, no other entering students would receive money nor would any existing award winner see their award increased. So, clearly four student-athletes getting 0.75 athletic scholarship does not work either.

Hence, we can conclude that both of your sets of numbers are wrong. If that does not convince you, let's try it this way : What very good player will attend an institution for no athletic scholarship in order to allow four other players to harvest the bounty?

BOTC has said the same thing over and over - a 0.25 offer is a solid freshman offer on average. If you work the numbers from a 0.25 base, you will start to understand why that award becomes the standard.

Cage
If u look closer at my post I wrote that some kids don't receive anything or will get academic or financial money. When I say 25-60 % there may only be one recruit a year who gets 60% or maybe in some cases none, but if they really value you they will go to that level. And for the other scenario I wrote 2-4. Some years may be 2 which might only eat up 1.5 scholarships then the other 10 will get 0 - 25% . Again many will get just academic money much like the schools who are not fully funded. It may change year to year based on how good they think the recruit is. I have asked the questions and sat in front of many of the schools you are referring to. Don't get me wrong, I am not trying to say a 25% scholarship is not good. I am just saying that there may be more out there to get with some schools because their strategy is different.


You are RIGHT ON with your reply and that is exactly how it works. We have sat in most of the schools coaches offices last year and you are correct in your analysis. Also to respond to the poster calling everyone a moron...our daughter received full athletic scholarship offers from mostly all of the schools mentioned except Virginia. Morons in glass houses.....


Sure she did! It's easy to say with no proof. Nobody believes you. If that is true, it is a true exception and your daughter must be a real superstar getting 100% full ride offers including all room , board etc. to Duke, Georgetown, Harvard, Princeton, You must be so proud!!!

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Not really, but there is no need to try to convince you that there might be more funds available to your daughter than you might think. As long as you are happy with what you get and if Cage or anyone else says you should be happy with 25% or less than be my guest. I am sure the coaches will be very happy to give the money to someone else. Good luck! lol For the guy who got his daughter 70%, great job (i'm being serious). Your daughter will thank u in 4 years for making a rational decision!
When we are quoting 0.25 athletic scholarships, we have been clear that these are solid offers and present the average case.

The problem with too many of these posts is that an individual will post "I know several players that received 0.75" when in fact it might only be one or two such exceptional cases.

Then, our readers take that information and synthesize it to mean "everyone is getting 0.75" - I have no worries about financing college now.

BOTC is about education - not pointing out the extreme cases as being what the average family/student-athlete can expect. Doing anything else is a disservice to the lacrosse community.

The other portion of the discussion is the fact that an athletic scholarship can disappear within a season for injury or performance reasons which are both less likely to impact an academic scholarship.

We are trying to be the voice of reason in this discussion.

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Originally Posted by CageSage
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Not really, but there is no need to try to convince you that there might be more funds available to your daughter than you might think. As long as you are happy with what you get and if Cage or anyone else says you should be happy with 25% or less than be my guest. I am sure the coaches will be very happy to give the money to someone else. Good luck! lol For the guy who got his daughter 70%, great job (i'm being serious). Your daughter will thank u in 4 years for making a rational decision!
When we are quoting 0.25 athletic scholarships, we have been clear that these are solid offers and present the average case.

The problem with too many of these posts is that an individual will post "I know several players that received 0.75" when in fact it might only be one or two such exceptional cases.

Then, our readers take that information and synthesize it to mean "everyone is getting 0.75" - I have no worries about financing college now.

BOTC is about education - not pointing out the extreme cases as being what the average family/student-athlete can expect. Doing anything else is a disservice to the lacrosse community.

The other portion of the discussion is the fact that an athletic scholarship can disappear within a season for injury or performance reasons which are both less likely to impact an academic scholarship.

We are trying to be the voice of reason in this discussion.


Agreed, I wonder why the posters who claim to have got "full rides" get so angry and defensive, weird!

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Re: Commitment - How Much Athletic Money are Girls Really Getting?
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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
ok because you negotiated every kids scholarship? moron!


Agreed poster is a moron, and has no idea what they are talking about. Listen to Cage, he does know what he's talking about!!!
Thank you for the kind words, but this discussion is about a very serious topic - funding a college education. We should refrain from name calling in order to have a better exchange on the subject. Sorry to put a pin in the mud-slinging, but this topic is by far too important to allow it to degrade.

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Re: Commitment - How Much Athletic Money are Girls Really Getting?
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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
ok because you negotiated every kids scholarship? moron!


No idiot! You are saying there are NO full scholarships and I am saying your wrong. I negotiated my daughters and it is a full scholarship. Why so hard for you to follow. Apparently either your princess isn't that good or you should have went to that business class in college instead of the bong room and white castle afterwards.
Again, the name calling does not help the discussion.

One of the reasons why people become skeptical about "full ride" discussions (in addition to BOTC's own numbers) actually can be found at the start of this thread - the original post.

Some parents will declare financial aid or even loans as being part of a full ride while allowing others to infer that their full ride is athletics only.

Financial aid should NOT be considered part of a full ride discussion - but that is my personal view. Even when I was coaching players and working to get them signed, I never discussed any financial aid compensation with any of my families (save one).

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