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Re: Boys 2029 Grads - Mid Atlantic Region
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I thought I'd jump down here and help out the younger thread. The discussion about what day to start the age window is pointless. The system will only change unless the tournament organizers can have profitable tournaments greater than what they have now. 3Step, named in the article, ran The Circuit tournament. They had a full field, verified the participants and made a little extra money while doing it. Inside Lacrosse's publisher doesn't write this article unless he knows the system is changing. Once the other tournament organizers realize they will make more, the system will change. Look for more next year.

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Read the article... the window would start September 1 and end December 1

So it allows younger kids to play up but not older kids to play down. For our age it would be Sept 2010 - December 2011 or Feb 2012. You are moving the window the wrong way....

If you read the FULL article, you'll see:

"A source with knowledge of the NLF’s ongoing conversations says that the likely outcome has since shifted, targeting a 12-month birth year window."

Ughhhh that has nothing to do with the comment I responded to in which the poster suggested a 16-18 month window would allow holdbacks... but thanks for commenting.

seems like the point is that any discussion of 16-18 month windows and what that would mean is likely moot


They have a 20 month window in youth Basketball that is Grade Based.

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Read the article... the window would start September 1 and end December 1

So it allows younger kids to play up but not older kids to play down. For our age it would be Sept 2010 - December 2011 or Feb 2012. You are moving the window the wrong way....

If you read the FULL article, you'll see:

"A source with knowledge of the NLF’s ongoing conversations says that the likely outcome has since shifted, targeting a 12-month birth year window."

Ughhhh that has nothing to do with the comment I responded to in which the poster suggested a 16-18 month window would allow holdbacks... but thanks for commenting.

seems like the point is that any discussion of 16-18 month windows and what that would mean is likely moot

That last comment on 12 month birth year window is confusing to me... do they mean like soccer 2010,2011,etc or 12 month rolling window Sept.- Sept.

If like soccer that completely shakes up the system where non holdbacks end up in trap years where the rest of their team graduated and they are still in HS...

It will be like soccer and go by birth year with a 12 month window until (8th grade) u/15. Then it will be grade based for HS (9th grade and up).

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
I thought I'd jump down here and help out the younger thread. The discussion about what day to start the age window is pointless. The system will only change unless the tournament organizers can have profitable tournaments greater than what they have now. 3Step, named in the article, ran The Circuit tournament. They had a full field, verified the participants and made a little extra money while doing it. Inside Lacrosse's publisher doesn't write this article unless he knows the system is changing. Once the other tournament organizers realize they will make more, the system will change. Look for more next year.

Happy to pay more for an on age 12 month window. It doesn't matter what month it starts. Just make it fair. Like soccer/hockey.

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
I thought I'd jump down here and help out the younger thread. The discussion about what day to start the age window is pointless. The system will only change unless the tournament organizers can have profitable tournaments greater than what they have now. 3Step, named in the article, ran The Circuit tournament. They had a full field, verified the participants and made a little extra money while doing it. Inside Lacrosse's publisher doesn't write this article unless he knows the system is changing. Once the other tournament organizers realize they will make more, the system will change. Look for more next year.

Happy to pay more for an on age 12 month window. It doesn't matter what month it starts. Just make it fair. Like soccer/hockey.

Agreed

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The amount of conversation on this topic speaks volumes. As a parent of an on age 29, this simply means a few less giants/talented players on the top teams, which might ultimately make for better parity. I think the ones driving the conversation are the parents losing the vice grip on their child's life and the on-age parents who are too invested in the outcomes of their children's athletic pursuits. Let the age of “Call-ups” from the younger ages begin!!

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
The amount of conversation on this topic speaks volumes. As a parent of an on age 29, this simply means a few less giants/talented players on the top teams, which might ultimately make for better parity. I think the ones driving the conversation are the parents losing the vice grip on their child's life and the on-age parents who are too invested in the outcomes of their children's athletic pursuits. Let the age of “Call-ups” from the younger ages begin!!

Agreed! At least now the parents of younger/talented kids have a say in playing against older/larger boys rather than having it forced on them.

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Re: Boys 2029 Grads - Mid Atlantic Region
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Time for a convo change. The rankings got it completely right from top to bottom…..discuss….

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Rankings will change when all the holdbacks start playing their age

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You seem pretty sure that their are holdbacks…what teams are you making that implication??? Seems like 29 is one of few that aren’t completely littered with them.

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Rankings will change when all the holdbacks start playing their age

The #1 spot won’t. Maybe only more distance between them and everyone else

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
You seem pretty sure that their are holdbacks…what teams are you making that implication??? Seems like 29 is one of few that aren’t completely littered with them.

Perhaps with the DC teams. Holdbacks are filtering into the upper level 2029s in Baltimore. Would be easier to see if the 2029 Crabs team hadn't collapsed under its own weight. Last summer a number of 2028s dropped to 2029, and a few elite 2029s dropped to 2030. It's happening.

Give it time.

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
You seem pretty sure that their are holdbacks…what teams are you making that implication??? Seems like 29 is one of few that aren’t completely littered with them.

Perhaps with the DC teams. Holdbacks are filtering into the upper level 2029s in Baltimore. Would be easier to see if the 2029 Crabs team hadn't collapsed under its own weight. Last summer a number of 2028s dropped to 2029, and a few elite 2029s dropped to 2030. It's happening.

Give it time.


So you’re basically just assuming and have no idea. Completely shocking from someone on this page. Good talk

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Re: Boys 2029 Grads - Mid Atlantic Region
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Originally Posted by Anonymous
The amount of conversation on this topic speaks volumes. As a parent of an on age 29, this simply means a few less giants/talented players on the top teams, which might ultimately make for better parity. I think the ones driving the conversation are the parents losing the vice grip on their child's life and the on-age parents who are too invested in the outcomes of their children's athletic pursuits. Let the age of “Call-ups” from the younger ages begin!!

Serious question: What do you consider an “on age 29”?

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
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Originally Posted by Anonymous
You seem pretty sure that their are holdbacks…what teams are you making that implication??? Seems like 29 is one of few that aren’t completely littered with them.

Perhaps with the DC teams. Holdbacks are filtering into the upper level 2029s in Baltimore. Would be easier to see if the 2029 Crabs team hadn't collapsed under its own weight. Last summer a number of 2028s dropped to 2029, and a few elite 2029s dropped to 2030. It's happening.

Give it time.


So you’re basically just assuming and have no idea. Completely shocking from someone on this page. Good talk

I have no idea about the DC area teams, which is another way to phrase, "perhaps," you stable genius.

My sons attend an MIAA school in Baltimore Co and I could list the names of a dozen plus 2028s and 2029s that held back last summer, and a very incomplete list of those who are touring MIAA schools to enter at their CURRENT grade level next year, but that would be pretty mean spirited.

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
The amount of conversation on this topic speaks volumes. As a parent of an on age 29, this simply means a few less giants/talented players on the top teams, which might ultimately make for better parity. I think the ones driving the conversation are the parents losing the vice grip on their child's life and the on-age parents who are too invested in the outcomes of their children's athletic pursuits. Let the age of “Call-ups” from the younger ages begin!!

Serious question: What do you consider an “on age 29”?

IF using a true birthdate 2029, September 1, 2010- August 31, 2011. Grade based allows a September 2009 holdback to play against an August 2011... hence the reason for this discussion. That would be a 13 year old against an 11 year old. OR WORSE YET a double hold back 14 year old this spring against an on age 11 year old.

But be prepared for chest pounding "just hit the wall" Dad to come justify why this is okay....

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LOL at the bozos trying to make it a 16 month age system. Just come out and say it. "I'm in charge of youth club lacrosse decision making, and I want my Pre-K hold back son to beat up on younger kids so I can have my dream of my son playing D1 lacrosse"

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Uhhhh. What??? A 2009 anything playing against a 2011 is already a double holdback.

A august 2010 would be considered a holdback, even if they were august 29th. Which is the root of the whole issue. If they never allow kids who were held back at preschool to play with their classmates then they will not have a team or be asked to join an established team in 8th grade. Or whenever.

A September 2009 is an on age 27

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Uhhhh. What??? A 2009 anything playing against a 2011 is already a double holdback.

A august 2010 would be considered a holdback, even if they were august 29th. Which is the root of the whole issue. If they never allow kids who were held back at preschool to play with their classmates then they will not have a team or be asked to join an established team in 8th grade. Or whenever.

A September 2009 is an on age 27

Nope... So follow me here. Seems you got lost trying to see through you losing grip on your sons future as a holdback...

2028 on grade would be September 2009-August 31 2010... remember Sept 1, 2010 is a 2029.

A September 2009 should be a 2028 or 7th grader. Held back makes them a 2029... so YES a September, October, November, December 2009 is a SINGLE YEAR holdback grade wise and playing against summer 2011 birthdays makes them almost two years older. Double hold back, again Sept. Oct, Nov. Dec 2008 could make them 3 years older.

If you really think August birthdays are the root cause of the issue you have either are clueless or have an August birthday kid who will become the youngest under the new system which makes it unfair to your kid. Forget about the other kids playing on age.

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Aren’t 2029 teams supposed to play 2029 teams?

Someone must have lost to the 2029 Madlax team along with way. Maybe in one of these:

HoCo Champ - Madlax
NAL Champ - Madlax
Naptown Champ - Madlax
NLF Champ Madlax

Agree with the above 2029 Madlax and 2029 Hawks can compete against 2028s. And if they get pummeled in a game, they are supposed to, they are a year younger.
Maybe lower level 2028 teams. They’d get rolled 15-0 playing 28 Hawks, FCA, Madlax, etc

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
A august 2010 would be considered a holdback, even if they were august 29th. Which is the root of the whole issue. If they never allow kids who were held back at preschool to play with their classmates then they will not have a team or be asked to join an established team in 8th grade. Or whenever.

uhh what? Why wouldn't they have a team to play with?

They would just have to play with the kids one grade up because that's the right age.
When the kid asks why he can't play with the kids in his grade his parents will need to explain to him how they tried to game the system by having him play against younger kids and it worked for a while but now it backfired.

Saying that they wont have a team to play on is a lie.

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In 8th grade their team would be a high school team…so you’re suggesting that as a senior they would just skip club lacrosse? Or that as an 8th grader they would just play with the high school team, all Becuase they were born two days before the cut off.

Makes sense. Or maybe it makes sense that they have a grace period of a month or two. But again, most of y’all are too black and white and want to badmouth people on this page. Guarantee that if any of you had a reasonable conversation about this with a parent who was in this specific situation you would crumble and Say “yeah I think it make sense”

Your all ridiculous

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
A august 2010 would be considered a holdback, even if they were august 29th. Which is the root of the whole issue. If they never allow kids who were held back at preschool to play with their classmates then they will not have a team or be asked to join an established team in 8th grade. Or whenever.

uhh what? Why wouldn't they have a team to play with?

They would just have to play with the kids one grade up because that's the right age.
When the kid asks why he can't play with the kids in his grade his parents will need to explain to him how they tried to game the system by having him play against younger kids and it worked for a while but now it backfired.

Saying that they wont have a team to play on is a lie.
US Soccer is birth year so teams are generally 2/3rd of kids in an older grade and 1/3rd in the next lower grade. Kids are resilient, they can play with other kids in a different grade! It does get messy when it's a mix of 8th and 9th but it's manageable.

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I love how all the holdback parents claim it wouldn't be fair if little Johnny has to play with kids in another grade. When making the decision to hold back or start their child late, they understood the advantage they would gain academically and with certain sports like lacrosse. Yet they knew that many club sports like AAU basketball and travel soccer have the same type of age verification system that NLF is planning to implement here. Those parents clearly knew the deal with some sports and are simply offering feeble justifications to oppose lacrosse following suit.

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
In 8th grade their team would be a high school team…so you’re suggesting that as a senior they would just skip club lacrosse? Or that as an 8th grader they would just play with the high school team, all Because they were born two days before the cut off.

What dude? They would play in their age group. U13, U14, U15, etc. If most of their peers are in 9th grade but they have to play with mostly 8th graders that would be their parents fault for holding them back.

Have some accountability/integrity. You knew what you were doing when you held him back.

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Got to believe holdback parents are losing their minds less than reclass parents because many parents likely made the decision based on academic maturity over athletic advantage.

And would highly likely make the same holdback decision again knowing this policy change.

Good on the Lacrosse community for fighting for change to keep children safe and level the playing field. Thank you and good on you all.

Zero concessions or grace periods should be made for reclassed families. That’s their problem to deal with and they need to own their decisions.

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Aren’t 2029 teams supposed to play 2029 teams?

Someone must have lost to the 2029 Madlax team along with way. Maybe in one of these:

HoCo Champ - Madlax
NAL Champ - Madlax
Naptown Champ - Madlax
NLF Champ Madlax

Agree with the above 2029 Madlax and 2029 Hawks can compete against 2028s. And if they get pummeled in a game, they are supposed to, they are a year younger.
Maybe lower level 2028 teams. They’d get rolled 15-0 playing 28 Hawks, FCA, Madlax, etc

What’s your point? Yes those teams would handle 29 madlax or the hawks. But madlax and hawks would throttle the elite 2030 teams and the top elite 27 teams would bury whichever elite 28 team your kid is on listed above.

That’s how it should be.

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
In 8th grade their team would be a high school team…so you’re suggesting that as a senior they would just skip club lacrosse? Or that as an 8th grader they would just play with the high school team, all Because they were born two days before the cut off.

What dude? They would play in their age group. U13, U14, U15, etc. If most of their peers are in 9th grade but they have to play with mostly 8th graders that would be their parents fault for holding them back.

Have some accountability/integrity. You knew what you were doing when you held him back.


This is classic. Y’all are making it seem like at age 4 parents knew that at age 11 or 12 someone would change all the rules. But even more hilarious is that you think they were even thinking about sports. No one knows if their kid is even going to want to play sports at that age.

At the end of the day I really don’t care. Doesn’t truly impact my kid. But I know a lot of people who aren’t the monsters you make them out to be and he would definitely be impacted. And while those of you whose kid has been struggling presume it is all the “holdbacks” faults, you will soon learn that it was very few of them (12+ month holdbacks) who really needed to be addressed.

Frankly I know who most of the holdbacks are from 2030-2027 in our club. Non of them are the difference makers you make them out to be.

Now I’ve heard tales about the infamous double holdbacks and certain clubs who go out of the way to recruit kids down etc…and that’s disgusting. So if this is the only way to stop it, so be it.

But please stop with the assumptions that summer holdbacks are ao dangerous for your precious angel to play against. You’re talking about a couple months. And in some cases days.

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It’s not days or even a couple months when you have an on a son with a summer birthday that did not hold back. Those on age kids do exist and when a May/June/July/August 2010 kid holds back the on age kids with summer 2011 birthdays are playing kids 12-15 months older than they are. The rules allow this now, but don’t act like this isn’t a big deal. It is.

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
It’s not days or even a couple months when you have an on a son with a summer birthday that did not hold back. Those on age kids do exist and when a May/June/July/August 2010 kid holds back the on age kids with summer 2011 birthdays are playing kids 12-15 months older than they are. The rules allow this now, but don’t act like this isn’t a big deal. It is.

playing against kids that are 10-11 months older isn't that big a difference from playing against kids that are 12-13 months older.

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
It’s not days or even a couple months when you have an on a son with a summer birthday that did not hold back. Those on age kids do exist and when a May/June/July/August 2010 kid holds back the on age kids with summer 2011 birthdays are playing kids 12-15 months older than they are. The rules allow this now, but don’t act like this isn’t a big deal. It is.

playing against kids that are 10-11 months older isn't that big a difference from playing against kids that are 12-13 months older.

In the puberty years, It absolutely is a big difference.

In high school, it’s not.

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
It’s not days or even a couple months when you have an on a son with a summer birthday that did not hold back. Those on age kids do exist and when a May/June/July/August 2010 kid holds back the on age kids with summer 2011 birthdays are playing kids 12-15 months older than they are. The rules allow this now, but don’t act like this isn’t a big deal. It is.

playing against kids that are 10-11 months older isn't that big a difference from playing against kids that are 12-13 months older.

In the puberty years, It absolutely is a big difference.

In high school, it’s not.

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
It’s not days or even a couple months when you have an on a son with a summer birthday that did not hold back. Those on age kids do exist and when a May/June/July/August 2010 kid holds back the on age kids with summer 2011 birthdays are playing kids 12-15 months older than they are. The rules allow this now, but don’t act like this isn’t a big deal. It is.

playing against kids that are 10-11 months older isn't that big a difference from playing against kids that are 12-13 months older.

In the puberty years, It absolutely is a big difference.

In high school, it’s not.

Not really. My son routinely plays against older kids in multiple sports. There is no way one can tell the difference between a kid that's 10-11 months older from a kid that's 12-13 months older.

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
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Originally Posted by Anonymous
In 8th grade their team would be a high school team…so you’re suggesting that as a senior they would just skip club lacrosse? Or that as an 8th grader they would just play with the high school team, all Because they were born two days before the cut off.

What dude? They would play in their age group. U13, U14, U15, etc. If most of their peers are in 9th grade but they have to play with mostly 8th graders that would be their parents fault for holding them back.

Have some accountability/integrity. You knew what you were doing when you held him back.


This is classic. Y’all are making it seem like at age 4 parents knew that at age 11 or 12 someone would change all the rules. But even more hilarious is that you think they were even thinking about sports. No one knows if their kid is even going to want to play sports at that age.

At the end of the day I really don’t care. Doesn’t truly impact my kid. But I know a lot of people who aren’t the monsters you make them out to be and he would definitely be impacted. And while those of you whose kid has been struggling presume it is all the “holdbacks” faults, you will soon learn that it was very few of them (12+ month holdbacks) who really needed to be addressed.

Frankly I know who most of the holdbacks are from 2030-2027 in our club. Non of them are the difference makers you make them out to be.

Now I’ve heard tales about the infamous double holdbacks and certain clubs who go out of the way to recruit kids down etc…and that’s disgusting. So if this is the only way to stop it, so be it.

But please stop with the assumptions that summer holdbacks are ao dangerous for your precious angel to play against. You’re talking about a couple months. And in some cases days.

You are a holdback apologist, so easy to see. You also make these strawman argument's that are Hilarious. Who is making them bad guys?, You ? , The system is broken when you allow same birthday players , one to play down and other to play on age with others playing down at the Youth level.

Age is what it should be whatever start you have ( Jan 1, May1, Sept 1 ) .

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The old way to help your kid was to take a PG year. Let him play with his age peers and if he is good you can send him to a fancy school for a year to fix his grades or mature. Not sure what was wrong with that model? This obviously doesn’t apply to the 5 year old late summer bday holdbacks.

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Nobody likes being called out for cheating.

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
The old way to help your kid was to take a PG year. Let him play with his age peers and if he is good you can send him to a fancy school for a year to fix his grades or mature. Not sure what was wrong with that model? This obviously doesn’t apply to the 5 year old late summer bday holdbacks.

It is so fun guessing ages now for college players. lets see, one year holdback, one year PG and one year Redshirt and what do you have ....

a 21 year old Freshman. Hilarious..and what does that get you ?? a ticket to the PLL and Paul

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
The old way to help your kid was to take a PG year. Let him play with his age peers and if he is good you can send him to a fancy school for a year to fix his grades or mature. Not sure what was wrong with that model? This obviously doesn’t apply to the 5 year old late summer bday holdbacks.

It is so fun guessing ages now for college players. lets see, one year holdback, one year PG and one year Redshirt and what do you have ....

a 21 year old Freshman. Hilarious..and what does that get you ?? a ticket to the PLL and Paul

You get a 25 year old looking for his first job, 3-4 years after his peers.

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Aren’t 2029 teams supposed to play 2029 teams?

Someone must have lost to the 2029 Madlax team along with way. Maybe in one of these:

HoCo Champ - Madlax
NAL Champ - Madlax
Naptown Champ - Madlax
NLF Champ Madlax

Agree with the above 2029 Madlax and 2029 Hawks can compete against 2028s. And if they get pummeled in a game, they are supposed to, they are a year younger.
Maybe lower level 2028 teams. They’d get rolled 15-0 playing 28 Hawks, FCA, Madlax, etc

29 Madlax could beat 28 Madlax, or at least give them a really tough game.

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Aren’t 2029 teams supposed to play 2029 teams?

Someone must have lost to the 2029 Madlax team along with way. Maybe in one of these:

HoCo Champ - Madlax
NAL Champ - Madlax
Naptown Champ - Madlax
NLF Champ Madlax

Agree with the above 2029 Madlax and 2029 Hawks can compete against 2028s. And if they get pummeled in a game, they are supposed to, they are a year younger.
Maybe lower level 2028 teams. They’d get rolled 15-0 playing 28 Hawks, FCA, Madlax, etc

29 Madlax could beat 28 Madlax, or at least give them a really tough game.

Ummm....no.

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