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Re: Boys 2022 Fall 2012/Spring 2013
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Actually LI plays a much more physical style lacrosse.

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8/31/03 is the cut off period. If you where born before that you can not play 2022 lacrosse. Lax fest has the same rule as md tournaments. So to comment about md kids playing down to win tournaments is crap.

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Md kids may not be playing down in order to win tourneys but seems clear that Md teams have kids born in Sept, Oct. and Nov. playing with the younger kids whereas kids with those same birthdays on LI teams would be playing with the older kids (i.e., their grade). No suggestion (by me at least) that it's cheating but nevertheless Md teams have a bunch of older kids. I think it should just be done by graduating class, 2022, 2021, etc. Then no issues (unless kids are left back!).

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Long poles in u9 2022?

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Md kids may not be playing down in order to win tourneys but seems clear that Md teams have kids born in Sept, Oct. and Nov. playing with the younger kids whereas kids with those same birthdays on LI teams would be playing with the older kids (i.e., their grade). No suggestion (by me at least) that it's cheating but nevertheless Md teams have a bunch of older kids. I think it should just be done by graduating class, 2022, 2021, etc. Then no issues (unless kids are left back!).


Those kids born in sept oct nov are still graduating in 2022 if born after August 31. US lacrosse has set the ages.

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Originally Posted by MDlaxer
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Md kids may not be playing down in order to win tourneys but seems clear that Md teams have kids born in Sept, Oct. and Nov. playing with the younger kids whereas kids with those same birthdays on LI teams would be playing with the older kids (i.e., their grade). No suggestion (by me at least) that it's cheating but nevertheless Md teams have a bunch of older kids. I think it should just be done by graduating class, 2022, 2021, etc. Then no issues (unless kids are left back!).


Those kids born in sept oct nov are still graduating in 2022 if born after August 31. US lacrosse has set the ages.


Fair enough. But LI kids who were born in Sept., Oct., and Nov, 2003 would generally be graduating in the class of 2021 and thus not be playing U9. So, again, the point is not that Md teams are not following the rules - they clearly are - but nevertheless the Md teams likely have a number of older kids. Who knows if it really means anything anyway.

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Question: My 8 year old is pretty good. He did great this year in PAL. 10 goals in 6 games. He is smart and coachable. He got "cut" by the Honey Badgers in January. I want to try him out for a club team in September. I am thinking Igloo, Team 91 and Express. I live in Western Nassau. Which team does everyone think is best? Will 91 and express be unless bc they already have 2023 teams and the tryout would just be a formality? Any other clubs to check out? Am I out of my mind as my wife thinks? Thanks

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Question: My 8 year old is pretty good. He did great this year in PAL. 10 goals in 6 games. He is smart and coachable. He got "cut" by the Honey Badgers in January. I want to try him out for a club team in September. I am thinking Igloo, Team 91 and Express. I live in Western Nassau. Which team does everyone think is best? Will 91 and express be unless bc they already have 2023 teams and the tryout would just be a formality? Any other clubs to check out? Am I out of my mind as my wife thinks? Thanks
First, note that if you want to introduce a new line of discussion (such as your original Boys 2023 topic line), please become a registered user and start your own thread.

Second, you should consider having your child attend one of the Long Island Outlaws free clinics which are currently taking place :

Long Island Outlaws Free Clinics

There, you might be able to get a low-pressure evaluation of where your son's proper level might be. The Outlaws will help you in terms of guiding your son's placement, either with them or elsewhere. The fact that he was not accepted in the first recruitment round of the Honey Badgers might indicate that going through this exercise with the Outlaws is worth your time. It is less about which program/team is the best and more about where your son would be with similarly skilled players to begin improving his skill set.

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thanks.

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LI express 2022 playing in 9u B but not playing AA at hogan Hersey tournament. I thought express was was one of the top clubs on LI.

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Express is a top club but certain clubs are stronger in certain grades than others. They probably feel their 2022 team is not a top tier team yet and want to have competitive games. Nothing wrong with that.

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Express is a top club but certain clubs are stronger in certain grades than others. They probably feel their 2022 team is not a top tier team yet and want to have competitive games. Nothing wrong with that.


So they feel they can't win it all. So lets drop down and chase trophies. You would never see top clubs in Maryland playing down with their AA team. B teams yes never AA teams.

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My kid "worked out" this winter with Express Terps 2022. He's a 2023 and was not overwhelmed playing against 3rd graders. They are really well coached. I think 8/9 is such a tough age to judge. There are still early (Jan.) babies that are bigger than their counterparts. Also, the kids that standout can really dominate at this age.

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What is an AA team versus a B team depends on who you ask. Express 2022 has entered the A brackets of most of the tournaments they played in, including this past weekend at LI Laxfest. While they are a solid teeam, at this point they are a notch below the top 2022 teams. So for this tourney maybe they decided to put their kids a position to have more competitive games. I doubt they are chasing a trophy. Kids are kids and losing is tough. I see no issue with mixing it up as far as entering some A brakets and some B brakets. And by the way, relax with these comments about what "Md" teams would do as if we were talking important matters here. We're talking about 9 year old lacrosse.

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Originally Posted by CageSage
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Question: My 8 year old is pretty good. He did great this year in PAL. 10 goals in 6 games. He is smart and coachable. He got "cut" by the Honey Badgers in January. I want to try him out for a club team in September. I am thinking Igloo, Team 91 and Express. I live in Western Nassau. Which team does everyone think is best? Will 91 and express be unless bc they already have 2023 teams and the tryout would just be a formality? Any other clubs to check out? Am I out of my mind as my wife thinks? Thanks
First, note that if you want to introduce a new line of discussion (such as your original Boys 2023 topic line), please become a registered user and start your own thread.

Second, you should consider having your child attend one of the Long Island Outlaws free clinics which are currently taking place :

Long Island Outlaws Free Clinics

There, you might be able to get a low-pressure evaluation of where your son's proper level might be. The Outlaws will help you in terms of guiding your son's placement, either with them or elsewhere. The fact that he was not accepted in the first recruitment round of the Honey Badgers might indicate that going through this exercise with the Outlaws is worth your time. It is less about which program/team is the best and more about where your son would be with similarly skilled players to begin improving his skill set.
Another option to consider if you are looking for immediate (July/August) game play would be to consider the Buccaneers Lacrosse program that is still taking players in Grades 3 and 4. You can find out more by clicking their link in the right side margin in the Long Island Clubs content island.

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They are still playing teams that are 2021, thus a year older then them. My son plays for 2022 Terps and we are not an "A" team. Nobody is trying to play down to win a tournament. More so find a level where the kids can be competitive. Last weekend at LI Lax Fest we played "A" and went 0-4 losing ever game by atleast 4 goals. While 91 White a team that has won at least 2 tournaments this season
JDRF and Pro Player and beat us every time we have played, played B, went 5 and 0 blowing put every team they played and won the Chsmpionship. I think before you talk about people trying to play down and win you should do a little research first. Express 2022 Terps does not belong in the A bracket. We will have a hard enough time winning a game against teams that are 1 to 2 years older.

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2022 Terps have played the following tournaments, all in the A bracket.
I hope this clears everything up for you...
JDRF Tournament (1-2)
Beat fl$
Lost to 91 white
Lost to Igloo

Andy Forsberg Tournament(0-3)
Lost Manhasset 32
Lost Team Smithtown
Lost to True Blue

fl$ Tournament (2-2)
Best fl$
Lost 91- Smash
Lost Team Smithtown
Beat Jesters

LI Lax Fest (0-4)
Lost to Igloo
Lost to 3 Village
Lost to 91 Smash
Lost to BayShore

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So now we are counting how many goals an 8 year old scored in PAL 2nd grade Lax...

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what a joke! maybe you should try out for the team next time.

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
They are still playing teams that are 2021, thus a year older then them. My son plays for 2022 Terps and we are not an "A" team. Nobody is trying to play down to win a tournament. More so find a level where the kids can be competitive. Last weekend at LI Lax Fest we played "A" and went 0-4 losing ever game by atleast 4 goals. While 91 White a team that has won at least 2 tournaments this season
JDRF and Pro Player and beat us every time we have played, played B, went 5 and 0 blowing put every team they played and won the Chsmpionship. I think before you talk about people trying to play down and win you should do a little research first. Express 2022 Terps does not belong in the A bracket. We will have a hard enough time winning a game against teams that are 1 to 2 years older.


I have a friend whose son plays on the 2022 Terps and he said that they keep bringing down new kids for the tournament. Mostly kids from Farmingdale because one of the coaches is in some way affiliated with or lives in Farmingdale. If this is true, how do the parents of the primary team feel about that?

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My son plays with farmingdale, but not express. About half of the farmingdale kids stay and play together with their farmingdale town team and are also signed up with the Express. Because they have a very solid town program, those kids cannot make all the express practices and all farmingdale practices. So the kids who are on both teams usually attend their town team practices/games as a first priority and attend whatever express practices they can make. Your friend probably does not know that those kids are committed and have paid to be part of two solid teams and have to spread their time between the two.

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Your son should go back and prove to the HB coaches that they made the wrong choice. Let him redeem himself. They are a good team. Heard that the kids on the team really enjoyed themselves.

Good luck.

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
My son plays with farmingdale, but not express. About half of the farmingdale kids stay and play together with their farmingdale town team and are also signed up with the Express. Because they have a very solid town program, those kids cannot make all the express practices and all farmingdale practices. So the kids who are on both teams usually attend their town team practices/games as a first priority and attend whatever express practices they can make. Your friend probably does not know that those kids are committed and have paid to be part of two solid teams and have to spread their time between the two.


that is where the problem is. if your town is the priority (and that is fine - not opening up that debate) don't play on a top travel team.

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
My son plays with farmingdale, but not express. About half of the farmingdale kids stay and play together with their farmingdale town team and are also signed up with the Express. Because they have a very solid town program, those kids cannot make all the express practices and all farmingdale practices. So the kids who are on both teams usually attend their town team practices/games as a first priority and attend whatever express practices they can make. Your friend probably does not know that those kids are committed and have paid to be part of two solid teams and have to spread their time between the two.


that is where the problem is. if your town is the priority (and that is fine - not opening up that debate) don't play on a top travel team.


I agree it is impossible to be fully committed to two lacrosse teams, there are always conflicts and you will always have to choose one over the other. Problem with this is that the parents see nothing wrong with their child skipping practices, and they should.

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
My son plays with farmingdale, but not express. About half of the farmingdale kids stay and play together with their farmingdale town team and are also signed up with the Express. Because they have a very solid town program, those kids cannot make all the express practices and all farmingdale practices. So the kids who are on both teams usually attend their town team practices/games as a first priority and attend whatever express practices they can make. Your friend probably does not know that those kids are committed and have paid to be part of two solid teams and have to spread their time between the two.


that is where the problem is. if your town is the priority (and that is fine - not opening up that debate) don't play on a top travel team.


I agree it is impossible to be fully committed to two lacrosse teams, there are always conflicts and you will always have to choose one over the other. Problem with this is that the parents see nothing wrong with their child skipping practices, and they should.


I could not agree more. If I am paying 2 grand, I want more than 12 kids at the club practice. I also do not want to hear that we are not having another weekly practice because half the team cannot make it because they have practice for their town team. I think kids and parents need to learn about what commitment is. If you pulled this in another sport- you'd be benched or would not make the team the following year. I am not sure why this happens so frequently in lax.

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
I could not agree more. If I am paying 2 grand, I want more than 12 kids at the club practice. I also do not want to hear that we are not having another weekly practice because half the team cannot make it because they have practice for their town team. I think kids and parents need to learn about what commitment is. If you pulled this in another sport- you'd be benched or would not make the team the following year. I am not sure why this happens so frequently in lax.
This happens in lacrosse due to a weak player pass situation. If players were tied to a single team for a seasonal year, players would need to choose between their town teams and premier club teams.

Soccer avoids this debate since the best town teams (U/11 and under) move to their premier ranks by U/12, so there is no notion of being both "intramural and premier".

Lacrosse's differentiation between town and club teams also promotes these "two team" players. With club teams starting to edge towards full year coverage with better training, the revenue potential will eventually force the better players to choose an exclusive premier path.

Two weeks back when we spoke with US Lacrosse, their staff members were particularly concerned about clubs in some locations (not New [lacrosse]) forcing players, particularly boys, to choose. While not an issue yet here, BOTC was quick to point out that this train is coming.

US Lacrosse asked us why we thought this would happen? Our response was simple : Lacrosse youth development structure is typically five to ten years behind Youth Soccer, at least on the East Coast. US Lacrosse agreed with this view.

Youth Soccer's "Development Academies" are forcing the better players to choose between their High School careers and higher level academy training. How long before Lacrosse sees the same system evolve? Our answer : Five to ten years.

Think about it.

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Originally Posted by CageSage
Originally Posted by Anonymous
I could not agree more. If I am paying 2 grand, I want more than 12 kids at the club practice. I also do not want to hear that we are not having another weekly practice because half the team cannot make it because they have practice for their town team. I think kids and parents need to learn about what commitment is. If you pulled this in another sport- you'd be benched or would not make the team the following year. I am not sure why this happens so frequently in lax.
This happens in lacrosse due to a weak player pass situation. If players were tied to a single team for a seasonal year, players would need to choose between their town teams and premier club teams.

Soccer avoids this debate since the best town teams (U/11 and under) move to their premier ranks by U/12, so there is no notion of being both "intramural and premier".

Lacrosse's differentiation between town and club teams also promotes these "two team" players. With club teams starting to edge towards full year coverage with better training, the revenue potential will eventually force the better players to choose an exclusive premier path.

Two weeks back when we spoke with US Lacrosse, their staff members were particularly concerned about clubs in some locations (not New [lacrosse]) forcing players, particularly boys, to choose. While not an issue yet here, BOTC was quick to point out that this train is coming.

US Lacrosse asked us why we thought this would happen? Our response was simple : Lacrosse youth development structure is typically five to ten years behind Youth Soccer, at least on the East Coast. US Lacrosse agreed with this view.

Youth Soccer's "Development Academies" are forcing the better players to choose between their High School careers and higher level academy training. How long before Lacrosse sees the same system evolve? Our answer : Five to ten years.

Think about it.


I happen to think the soccer analogy is horrible. They may be more organized as an institution but where are they when it comes to player development? For the amount of time they want you to practice and play year round I just don't see kids getting the college looks as lacrosse on LI.

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
I happen to think the soccer analogy is horrible. They may be more organized as an institution but where are they when it comes to player development? For the amount of time they want you to practice and play year round I just don't see kids getting the college looks as lacrosse on LI.
Let's try to define what you mean by player development. If you are looking for premier academies that support player growth, soccer academy consolidation has already taken place with the top regional academies already identified for both boys and girls.

If you are looking for college placements, my most recent data showed that 97% of girls players that were playing for premier league teams (club teams) between 2007 and 2011 were collegiate placed. Remember that in soccer, there are too many High School teams on Long Island (more than 110) with too many players (approximately 2,700 for both the boys and the girls - so 5,400 in total) to be able to argue that top quality can consistently be found at the scholastic level.

If you are looking for national presence, all I can offer in defense is that one of the players that our team battled for years (Crystal Dunn) is now a starter (not just on the team, but one of the starting eleven) for the Women's National Team.

All of this said, perhaps the soccer analogy is weak simply because it is more rigidly defined than the wild west that you currently have in youth lacrosse.

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Remember, the original question posed by our 2022 poster asked why the commitment to any individual team (particularly those charging) seems so weak.
Originally Posted by Anonymous
I also do not want to hear that we are not having another weekly practice because half the team cannot make it because they have practice for their town team. I think kids and parents need to learn about what commitment is. If you pulled this in another sport- you'd be benched or would not make the team the following year. I am not sure why this happens so frequently in lax.
In order to discuss "weak commitment", BOTC felt you needed to compare the commitment level to something else - anything else - to make the point.

If the comparison to other sports does not make an effective argument, why would anyone feel that there is weak commitment? (Hopefully, you understand our point here.)

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Originally Posted by CageSage
Originally Posted by Anonymous
I happen to think the soccer analogy is horrible. They may be more organized as an institution but where are they when it comes to player development? For the amount of time they want you to practice and play year round I just don't see kids getting the college looks as lacrosse on LI.
Let's try to define what you mean by player development. If you are looking for premier academies that support player growth, soccer academy consolidation has already taken place with the top regional academies already identified for both boys and girls.

If you are looking for college placements, my most recent data showed that 97% of girls players that were playing for premier league teams (club teams) between 2007 and 2011 were collegiate placed. Remember that in soccer, there are too many High School teams on Long Island (more than 110) with too many players (approximately 2,700 for both the boys and the girls - so 5,400 in total) to be able to argue that top quality can consistently be found at the scholastic level.

If you are looking for national presence, all I can offer in defense is that one of the players that our team battled for years (Crystal Dunn) is now a starter (not just on the team, but one of the starting eleven) for the Women's National Team.

All of this said, perhaps the soccer analogy is weak simply because it is more rigidly defined than the wild west that you currently have in youth lacrosse.


That being said
Taken from Newsdays 2013 college commitments, the numbers are as follows, and i'm sure the number have changed since published.
Girls Lacrosse 92
Boys Lacrosse 86
Girls Soccer 34
Boys Soccer 21

Over all Lacrosse 178, Soccer 55

The numbers don't lie.


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Originally Posted by CageSage
Remember, the original question posed by our 2022 poster asked why the commitment to any individual team (particularly those charging) seems so weak.
Originally Posted by Anonymous
I also do not want to hear that we are not having another weekly practice because half the team cannot make it because they have practice for their town team. I think kids and parents need to learn about what commitment is. If you pulled this in another sport- you'd be benched or would not make the team the following year. I am not sure why this happens so frequently in lax.
In order to discuss "weak commitment", BOTC felt you needed to compare the commitment level to something else - anything else - to make the point.

If the comparison to other sports does not make an effective argument, why would anyone feel that there is weak commitment? (Hopefully, you understand our point here.)


The answer the original comment of "commitment" it - at times - is weak because of the town/school vs club friction that exists. And if you choose to do both - they will conflict.

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
That being said
Taken from Newsdays 2013 college commitments, the numbers are as follows, and i'm sure the number have changed since published.
Girls Lacrosse 92
Boys Lacrosse 86
Girls Soccer 34
Boys Soccer 21

Over all Lacrosse 178, Soccer 55

The numbers don't lie.
Newsday's numbers on soccer commitments are not close to the actual numbers. Remember, Newsday depends on people reporting data to them which simply does not happen in the soccer world. Much of this material is discussed on Back of THE NET (www.backofthenet.com) on the College Forum and High School threads. Perhaps I have hijacked this discussion long enough?

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In my opinion (as a former player and current youth coach) there are a couple of things youth soccer does better than youth lacrosse:1) player passes with verified birth certificates that prevent any funny business, 2) age groups defined by birth year rather than graduation year, and 3) well trained and organized officiating.

Originally Posted by CageSage
[quote=Anonymous].
Lacrosse's differentiation between town and club teams also promotes these "two team" players. With club teams starting to edge towards full year coverage with better training, the revenue potential will eventually force the better players to choose an exclusive premier path.

Youth Soccer's "Development Academies" are forcing the better players to choose between their High School careers and higher level academy training. How long before Lacrosse sees the same system evolve? Our answer : Five to ten years.

Think about it.


However, Soccer's "Development Academies" don't sound to me like something we in the lacrosse world should emulate. Unless you are on track for National/Olympic team staus, wouldn't it be a shame to miss out on town/school teams that give you a chance to play with your local peers and play for town pride?

When you refer to "revenue potential," CageSage, surely you aren't talking about $$ for the player's benefit? I have read other forums here that claim that the "full ride" college scholarship doesn't exist for lacrosse. Also, the earning potential of a pro lax player is pretty limited. With the exception of the top players and coaches, not many people can earn their living through lacrosse. Lacrosse is not even an Olympic sport, where a gold medal might earn a player a spot on a Wheaties box (and a lucrative endorsement deal).

Perhaps the revenue you were talking about would be going into the Academy coffers?

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
When you refer to "revenue potential," CageSage, surely you aren't talking about $$ for the player's benefit? I have read other forums here that claim that the "full ride" college scholarship doesn't exist for lacrosse. Also, the earning potential of a pro lax player is pretty limited. With the exception of the top players and coaches, not many people can earn their living through lacrosse.
No, we are referring to the revenue potential for the clubs themselves. As lacrosse expands to year round coverage, the premier clubs will continue to expand their programs because the revenue will be available to them. From there, premier lacrosse programs will further encroach on dates previously held in reserve for town/PAL teams. Hence, better players will be forced to choose between town teams and year-round club teams.

BOTC was not referring to revenue potential as student-athlete scholarships since, as you have correctly stated, the "full ride" is not a reality. Educating parents and players on the realities of NCAA Athletic Scholarships is one of the important functions provided by the College Forums on BOTC and our sister soccer site, BOTN.

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