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Re: Team 91 MD
TLaxOne #358862 12/01/21 02:24 PM
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My kid is an August birthday. Let's go with 8/1. All agreed? Great. Shouldn't be a problem to implement.

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Re: Team 91 MD
Anonymous #358904 12/01/21 07:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Anonymous
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Originally Posted by Anonymous
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Okay on the 1 year difference but I want it to be June 1. Why should your arbitrary day on a calendar be better than mine?

The argument is for birth year. That’s not arbitrary. It’s the calendar year…literally the start of a new year. This is how every other sport aside from lacrosse handles it.

USA football uses 8/1 and I think basketball does to. There goes the birth year argument.
Soccer uses 1/1 - 12/31, as all of society does.

USA Soccer is based on the European model of soccer development. You also are usually required to not play any other sport in their top clubs and academy teams. USA soccer is over the top in their quest to compete against the European countries with 10 times less people.

Going by a 9/1 Birthday or maybe 8/1 is close to the start of majority of schools in this country and keeps all kids in their proper age grade. Common sense says that is best solution.
School has nothing to do with it, you're already against grade based. Let them make some new friends. If you're born in 2009, you play on a 2009 team. It would work.

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Re: Team 91 MD
Anonymous #358918 12/01/21 08:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Okay on the 1 year difference but I want it to be June 1. Why should your arbitrary day on a calendar be better than mine?

The argument is for birth year. That’s not arbitrary. It’s the calendar year…literally the start of a new year. This is how every other sport aside from lacrosse handles it.

USA football uses 8/1 and I think basketball does to. There goes the birth year argument.
Soccer uses 1/1 - 12/31, as all of society does.

USA Soccer is based on the European model of soccer development. You also are usually required to not play any other sport in their top clubs and academy teams. USA soccer is over the top in their quest to compete against the European countries with 10 times less people.

Going by a 9/1 Birthday or maybe 8/1 is close to the start of majority of schools in this country and keeps all kids in their proper age grade. Common sense says that is best solution.
School has nothing to do with it, you're already against grade based. Let them make some new friends. If you're born in 2009, you play on a 2009 team. It would work.

Your argument for European soccer model is flawed, Most soccer players go onto a club team , not school to compete. Total different model. Year ( Jan ) makes sense as its the easiest to rate players and the world soccer youth plays a strict age based all over the world. So easy to determine age based on that. 2001. 2002. etc.

Most of our USA youth sports boys go onto college and play. So it makes sense to try to get as close to grade as possible ( Sept , Aug ) without the crazy holdback world becoming to much of a problem. Youth makes sense to be Sept or Aug. Common sense

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Re: Team 91 MD
Anonymous #359151 12/04/21 01:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Okay on the 1 year difference but I want it to be June 1. Why should your arbitrary day on a calendar be better than mine?

The argument is for birth year. That’s not arbitrary. It’s the calendar year…literally the start of a new year. This is how every other sport aside from lacrosse handles it.

USA football uses 8/1 and I think basketball does to. There goes the birth year argument.
Soccer uses 1/1 - 12/31, as all of society does.

Schools in MD don't - they use Sept 1, just like lacrosse and Football.

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Re: Team 91 MD
Anonymous #359152 12/04/21 01:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
No one repeats 8th grade because education is important. Either they flunked because nobody at home placed any value on education or sports is their #1 priority and education is secondary. Of course they'll claim the fact that they pay an extra $40K proves they "value" education.

Show me you're a stunad without telling me you are a stunad.

Spoken like an apologist to the holdback world, who wants to justify his reasoning ,..He is right when it comes to the majority of boys who want to play lacrosse. they hold them back for sports. There are a lot of students who are held back for education, most dont have anything to do with lacrosse.

And the bottom line is,,,do what you want with your child, but that gives you no right to play down against other children in youth sports. I bet you think that is ok too? LOL
I don't have a dog in this fight, but rules are technically not being broken when the spring youth leagues and tournaments are based on grade year. In my opinion, US Lax should just settle on the full birth year, not a 9/1 cut off.

Actually there is no "rule" to break because HS does not follow UL Lax guidelines for age, they follow grade. Club lax doesn't follow US Lax rules for age, they use grad year which is a moving target when kids choose to reclass. "Rules" aren't being broken, they are being used to give an advantage to a player by allowing them to compete with/against generally younger players.

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Re: Team 91 MD
Anonymous #359154 12/04/21 01:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
No one repeats 8th grade because education is important. Either they flunked because nobody at home placed any value on education or sports is their #1 priority and education is secondary. Of course they'll claim the fact that they pay an extra $40K proves they "value" education.

Show me you're a stunad without telling me you are a stunad.

Spoken like an apologist to the holdback world, who wants to justify his reasoning ,..He is right when it comes to the majority of boys who want to play lacrosse. they hold them back for sports. There are a lot of students who are held back for education, most dont have anything to do with lacrosse.

And the bottom line is,,,do what you want with your child, but that gives you no right to play down against other children in youth sports. I bet you think that is ok too? LOL

Those that are held back for reasons other than sports are usually held back a much younger ages than 8th grade. Like all elitists', it's OK to be against something for others while feeling entitled to do what you want - when you are the greatest, why should the rules for those below you apply?

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Re: Team 91 MD
Anonymous #359181 12/05/21 08:58 AM
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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
No one repeats 8th grade because education is important. Either they flunked because nobody at home placed any value on education or sports is their #1 priority and education is secondary. Of course they'll claim the fact that they pay an extra $40K proves they "value" education.

Show me you're a stunad without telling me you are a stunad.

Spoken like an apologist to the holdback world, who wants to justify his reasoning ,..He is right when it comes to the majority of boys who want to play lacrosse. they hold them back for sports. There are a lot of students who are held back for education, most dont have anything to do with lacrosse.

And the bottom line is,,,do what you want with your child, but that gives you no right to play down against other children in youth sports. I bet you think that is ok too? LOL

Those that are held back for reasons other than sports are usually held back a much younger ages than 8th grade. Like all elitists', it's OK to be against something for others while feeling entitled to do what you want - when you are the greatest, why should the rules for those below you apply?

That rings true to many in this area as the main drivers of playing down in youth sports is the " Character Driven " students/parents of the MIAA private schools in Baltimore.

Classic example of the hypocrisy is the debacle of Gilman football a few years ago. Old Poogy recruited top football players who overwhelmed and destroyed the other MIAA schools, Their solution, not play Gilman in Football. While they are on the winning end with recruitment, alls ok,,,soon as they start getting beaten by bigger and stronger players, quit... And that is at the High School level not youth.

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Re: Team 91 MD
Anonymous #359227 12/06/21 01:22 AM
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Originally Posted by Anonymous
USA Soccer is based on the European model of soccer development. You also are usually required to not play any other sport in their top clubs and academy teams. USA soccer is over the top in their quest to compete against the European countries with 10 times less people.

Going by a 9/1 Birthday or maybe 8/1 is close to the start of majority of schools in this country and keeps all kids in their proper age grade. Common sense says that is best solution.

My son plays on an academy team and also plays lacrosse and basketball. No issues. Ties in events go to the “In season” sport. The coaches get pissed from time to time. If they don’t like it, they know they can bench my kid. But they haven’t yet.

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Re: Team 91 MD
Anonymous #359246 12/06/21 10:16 AM
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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Those that are held back for reasons other than sports are usually held back a much younger ages than 8th grade. Like all elitists', it's OK to be against something for others while feeling entitled to do what you want - when you are the greatest, why should the rules for those below you apply?

That rings true to many in this area as the main drivers of playing down in youth sports is the " Character Driven " students/parents of the MIAA private schools in Baltimore.

Classic example of the hypocrisy is the debacle of Gilman football a few years ago. Old Poogy recruited top football players who overwhelmed and destroyed the other MIAA schools, Their solution, not play Gilman in Football. While they are on the winning end with recruitment, alls ok,,,soon as they start getting beaten by bigger and stronger players, quit... And that is at the High School level not youth.

Loyola left the A league when they couldn't compete against St Francis in football.
Quit complaining, take the loss, and shut up.

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Re: Team 91 MD
Anonymous #359263 12/06/21 11:50 AM
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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
No one repeats 8th grade because education is important. Either they flunked because nobody at home placed any value on education or sports is their #1 priority and education is secondary. Of course they'll claim the fact that they pay an extra $40K proves they "value" education.

Show me you're a stunad without telling me you are a stunad.

Spoken like an apologist to the holdback world, who wants to justify his reasoning ,..He is right when it comes to the majority of boys who want to play lacrosse. they hold them back for sports. There are a lot of students who are held back for education, most dont have anything to do with lacrosse.

And the bottom line is,,,do what you want with your child, but that gives you no right to play down against other children in youth sports. I bet you think that is ok too? LOL

Those that are held back for reasons other than sports are usually held back a much younger ages than 8th grade. Like all elitists', it's OK to be against something for others while feeling entitled to do what you want - when you are the greatest, why should the rules for those below you apply?

You don’t think the parents holding the kids back earlier than 8th grade have an agenda and know exactly what they are doing? I know “lacrosse families” who know when their kids are born they will be doing this at a younger age. In elementary school as to not make it look obvious. They know about the “real advantages” of that extra year or two younger. Makes confidence in the kid younger being the best early. Also, extra training year. Real Advantages!!!

I’ve heard people discuss this. I was shocked. But it definitely happens all the time!!! Rules need to be changed to make it fair for “on age” kids.

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Re: Team 91 MD
Anonymous #359270 12/06/21 12:04 PM
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[/quote] Classic example of the hypocrisy is the debacle of Gilman football a few years ago. Old Poogy recruited top football players who overwhelmed and destroyed the other MIAA schools, Their solution, not play Gilman in Football. While they are on the winning end with recruitment, alls ok,,,soon as they start getting beaten by bigger and stronger players, quit... And that is at the High School level not youth.[/quote]

Not quite. Poggi recruited from across the country for athletics, and brought in kids who were physically exceptional - much bigger, stronger, and faster than the other kids in the MIAA.

If a recruiting pool is a roughly 20 mile radius surrounding a school, the coach can expect a certain number of strong athletes to matriculate each year around which to build a team and a program, and expects to compete with other schools with the same constraints.

If the recruiting pool is the entire US, then it isn't an MIAA team anymore - it is a US team, and it looks more like college recruiting than a local high school. It was like a D3 school playing an NFL team. - it wasn't just unfair, it was unsafe.

There were other problems with the approach. Parents who had paid tuition since lower school suddenly had to watch the ringers come in and displace the kids who had grown up in the school. Kids who were solid players in middle school were unable to play much in upper school due to the recruiting program.

It was costly - the coach insisted on a certain number of scholarships each year in order to feed the machine he built.

It caused problems in school, as many of the recruited players struggled with rigorous academics.

Other schools complained, but the MIAA couldn't do much. Eventually, the other schools saw the only choice was to opt out.

Notice they didn't stop playing the other MIAA teams - just the one that had an unfair advantage.

Eventually, things changed. Poggi moved on. The other MIAA A conference teams returned to playing against Gilman.

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Re: Team 91 MD
TLaxOne #359279 12/06/21 12:37 PM
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Sounds like the state of MIAA lacrosse right now.

These schools cant compete with kids from just a 20 mile radius.

Open the dorms, let kids live with assistant coaches.

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Re: Team 91 MD
Anonymous #359286 12/06/21 01:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Anonymous
[/quote] Classic example of the hypocrisy is the debacle of Gilman football a few years ago. Old Poogy recruited top football players who overwhelmed and destroyed the other MIAA schools, Their solution, not play Gilman in Football. While they are on the winning end with recruitment, alls ok,,,soon as they start getting beaten by bigger and stronger players, quit... And that is at the High School level not youth.

Not quite. Poggi recruited from across the country for athletics, and brought in kids who were physically exceptional - much bigger, stronger, and faster than the other kids in the MIAA.

If a recruiting pool is a roughly 20 mile radius surrounding a school, the coach can expect a certain number of strong athletes to matriculate each year around which to build a team and a program, and expects to compete with other schools with the same constraints.

If the recruiting pool is the entire US, then it isn't an MIAA team anymore - it is a US team, and it looks more like college recruiting than a local high school. It was like a D3 school playing an NFL team. - it wasn't just unfair, it was unsafe.

There were other problems with the approach. Parents who had paid tuition since lower school suddenly had to watch the ringers come in and displace the kids who had grown up in the school. Kids who were solid players in middle school were unable to play much in upper school due to the recruiting program.

It was costly - the coach insisted on a certain number of scholarships each year in order to feed the machine he built.

It caused problems in school, as many of the recruited players struggled with rigorous academics.

Other schools complained, but the MIAA couldn't do much. Eventually, the other schools saw the only choice was to opt out.

Notice they didn't stop playing the other MIAA teams - just the one that had an unfair advantage.

Eventually, things changed. Poggi moved on. The other MIAA A conference teams returned to playing against Gilman.[/quote]

Except no MIAA schools ever stopped playing Gilman in football. They waited until Biff went to St. Frances, then they refused to play them.

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Re: Team 91 MD
Anonymous #359302 12/06/21 02:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Sounds like the state of MIAA lacrosse right now.

These schools cant compete with kids from just a 20 mile radius.

Open the dorms, let kids live with assistant coaches.

Sounds like CHC & BL. Make BL play in the A conference for every sport then and see if they use those dorms to recruit for every sport, as well as "The International Students".

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Re: Team 91 MD
Anonymous #359320 12/06/21 04:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Classic example of the hypocrisy is the debacle of Gilman football a few years ago. Old Poogy recruited top football players who overwhelmed and destroyed the other MIAA schools, Their solution, not play Gilman in Football. While they are on the winning end with recruitment, alls ok,,,soon as they start getting beaten by bigger and stronger players, quit... And that is at the High School level not youth.

Not quite. Poggi recruited from across the country for athletics, and brought in kids who were physically exceptional - much bigger, stronger, and faster than the other kids in the MIAA.

If a recruiting pool is a roughly 20 mile radius surrounding a school, the coach can expect a certain number of strong athletes to matriculate each year around which to build a team and a program, and expects to compete with other schools with the same constraints.

If the recruiting pool is the entire US, then it isn't an MIAA team anymore - it is a US team, and it looks more like college recruiting than a local high school. It was like a D3 school playing an NFL team. - it wasn't just unfair, it was unsafe.

There were other problems with the approach. Parents who had paid tuition since lower school suddenly had to watch the ringers come in and displace the kids who had grown up in the school. Kids who were solid players in middle school were unable to play much in upper school due to the recruiting program.

It was costly - the coach insisted on a certain number of scholarships each year in order to feed the machine he built.

It caused problems in school, as many of the recruited players struggled with rigorous academics.

Other schools complained, but the MIAA couldn't do much. Eventually, the other schools saw the only choice was to opt out.

Notice they didn't stop playing the other MIAA teams - just the one that had an unfair advantage.

Eventually, things changed. Poggi moved on. The other MIAA A conference teams returned to playing against Gilman.[/quote]

Except no MIAA schools ever stopped playing Gilman in football. They waited until Biff went to St. Frances, then they refused to play them.[/quote]

The "golden seal" that Biff broke (along with, I recall, the girls softball coach at McD who successfully recruited out of state "more than usual"), was bringing "more than the unique case" out of state ringer into Gilman. Suddenly it was 6 kids. Then 10. And as the guy posted above, that's when the Gilman crowd started to bark.

But the comparison "Oh the racism" to the St. Frances thing is nuanced. Biff saw - and exploited - racial sensitivities by going to St. Frances and saying, "If it was fine for me to recruit 10 out of staters to Gilman, why can't I recruit 25 to St. Frances?"

Which would be a great debate, except that 10 was a problem at Gilman.

6 would have eventually been a problem at Gilman. But yes as long as it was 1,2,3 studs, the Gilman folks were as happy as could be with their Texas recruit. Would the MIAA schools have pitched a fit if Biff brought 1, 2, or 3 studs out of state to St. Frances? Maybe so, and if so, that would be racist.

Also (not sure whose comment), it's not 20 miles. It's more like 60-70 miles but the gravity is weaker away from the school. Kids come from across the shore to attend St. Mary's. Kids from PG, Annapolis, and PA attend Loyola, Gilman, and McD. Once the commute starts to hit about 40 miles, the more local schools should be able to recruit more effectively (Gunston on the shore, GP/Bullis/DeMatha in PG/MoCo). Nobody's taking a bus past DeMatha to attend Calvert Hall every day. Or taking the MARC past Georgetown Prep so they can get a seat at Gilman/Loyola.

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