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Re: holdbacks
TM@BOTC #358852 12/01/21 01:49 PM
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“Let’s compare fairly” is certainly the most ironic and tone deaf statement I think I’ve heard when talking about private wealthy schools on a lacrosse message board transposed to free public education.

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Re: holdbacks
Anonymous #358855 12/01/21 01:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
From Newsweek - as of the year 2020:

Among the schools deemed tops for science, technology, engineering and mathematics (STEM) are “high-profile institutions” in urban areas and “small but strong programs” around the United States, according to Cooper. In all cases, she said the best STEM schools have “skilled teachers who keep up with developments in these fields and who create dynamic learning environments to engage their students.”

Here are all the STEM schools in Maryland that earned a spot on the list:

Baltimore Polytechnic Institute
Baltimore
Public
STEM Rank: 36

Poolesville High School
Poolesville
Public
STEM Rank: 121

Thomas S. Wootton High School
Rockville
Public
STEM Rank: 160

Eastern Technical High School
Essex
Public
STEM Rank: 240

Holton-Arms School
Bethesda
Public
STEM Rank: 243

Centennial High School
Ellicott City
Public
STEM Rank: 268

Winston Churchill High School
Potomac
Public
STEM Rank: 282

River Hill High School
Clarksville
Public
STEM Rank: 290

Towson High School
Towson
Public
STEM Rank: 310

Gilman School
Baltimore
Private
STEM Rank: 312

Marriotts Ridge High School
Marriottsville
Public
STEM Rank: 412

The Bryn Mawr School
Baltimore
Private
STEM Rank: 412

Walt Whitman High School
Bethesda
Public
STEM Rank: 419

Urbana High School
Ijamsville
Public
STEM Rank: 445

McDonogh School
Owings Mills
Private
STEM Rank: 459

Again, the private vs public school standards are just very different questions. Nobody is sending their kid to McD to be a County health inspector.

Let's look at the college attendance from Poly, at the top of your list:

1) Morgan State
2) UMD (UMCP)
3) Towson U

So let's compare fairly - Nobody is sending their kid to Gilman or McD to attend Morgan State or Towson unless it's on some kind of full ride. They *might* be sending their private school kid to UMCP on less-than-full scholarship, because the kid, with his "equal to the top 10% of public" basic-ness, could not get scholarships to Georgetown, ND, Boston College, etc, and if his parents have any sense, they send him to UMCP which is an outstanding college for any private or public school kid, at 1/3 the cost of an elite private college, the equivalent network of which they already purchased during HS.

UMD has a larger Gilman alum presence than any other school. Your point doesn’t make any sense.

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Re: holdbacks
Anonymous #358857 12/01/21 02:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Anonymous
[/quote] Gilman is at the top of food chain of privates except for Park, which is a bastion of intellectual twits. Most privates are much less or the same than the top classes at many better publics. Many public kids do well and go to top colleges.

Sometimes it is better to be thought ignorant than to say something and prove it.

Then explain why you decided to write what you did ? Might want to understand these words, Self Awareness.

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Re: holdbacks
Anonymous #358858 12/01/21 02:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Anonymous
“Let’s compare fairly” is certainly the most ironic and tone deaf statement I think I’ve heard when talking about private wealthy schools on a lacrosse message board transposed to free public education.

It's as ridiculous and delusional as the people who want to believe public schools are even remotely on the same level academically as privates.

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Re: holdbacks
Anonymous #358860 12/01/21 02:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Anonymous
And let's remember reported school SAT scores are not the same.

The public school SAT scores just include the kids that took the SATs. The low performers sat out and didn't drag down the school's scores.

The private schools require ALL of their students to take the SATs.

You should check your facts. Students are not REQUIRED to take SATs unless the schools they are applying to require them, whether they go to a public or private high school. There are quite a few in my son’s private school class who did not take them because the universities they were applying to no longer require them for admissions.

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Re: holdbacks
TM@BOTC #358865 12/01/21 02:26 PM
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It totally made sense.

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Re: holdbacks
Anonymous #358876 12/01/21 03:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
“Let’s compare fairly” is certainly the most ironic and tone deaf statement I think I’ve heard when talking about private wealthy schools on a lacrosse message board transposed to free public education.

It's as ridiculous and delusional as the people who want to believe public schools are even remotely on the same level academically as privates.

The issue is some programs at some publics are at a minimum academically on par and in many cases superior.

Across the board paying 140k for high school should get you a better education that paying nothing.

However it’s not a blanket statement to say that all of one is better (or inferior) to all of another. I know parents need to justify paying the tuition for 14 years but the facts are what they are.

You can get a good education and get admitted to a fine college from certain publics and certain privates. It’s all good.

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Re: holdbacks
Anonymous #358877 12/01/21 03:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Anonymous
It totally made sense.

What , That you are looking for some ?

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Re: holdbacks
TM@BOTC #359301 12/06/21 02:18 PM
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I'm fine with my on age kid playing against holdbacks. Good players play up, not down. Simple way to solve the holdback issue, and it doesn't take reform from U.S. Lacrosse, just a little transparency from HoCo.
Every HoCo team should have to submit a roster that includes birthdates of each player. Post that info - no names identifying kids - just the D.OB. and zip code for each player on the team on the HoCo web site. Then everyone would see what teams are really 'elite' and what teams are just stacking their rosters with holdbacks and double holdbacks.
I do think it is a safety issue when certain clubs with anger issues use 5th graders against 3rd graders. Publicly posting D.OB. info would be a free, easy, no cost way to at least level the factual playing field.

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Re: holdbacks
Anonymous #359303 12/06/21 02:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Anonymous
I'm fine with my on age kid playing against holdbacks. Good players play up, not down. Simple way to solve the holdback issue, and it doesn't take reform from U.S. Lacrosse, just a little transparency from HoCo.
Every HoCo team should have to submit a roster that includes birthdates of each player. Post that info - no names identifying kids - just the D.OB. and zip code for each player on the team on the HoCo web site. Then everyone would see what teams are really 'elite' and what teams are just stacking their rosters with holdbacks and double holdbacks.
I do think it is a safety issue when certain clubs with anger issues use 5th graders against 3rd graders. Publicly posting D.OB. info would be a free, easy, no cost way to at least level the factual playing field.

Why would HoCO let people know that their league was unsafe for kids?

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Re: holdbacks
Anonymous #359342 12/06/21 06:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Anonymous
I'm fine with my on age kid playing against holdbacks. Good players play up, not down. Simple way to solve the holdback issue, and it doesn't take reform from U.S. Lacrosse, just a little transparency from HoCo.
Every HoCo team should have to submit a roster that includes birthdates of each player. Post that info - no names identifying kids - just the D.OB. and zip code for each player on the team on the HoCo web site. Then everyone would see what teams are really 'elite' and what teams are just stacking their rosters with holdbacks and double holdbacks.
I do think it is a safety issue when certain clubs with anger issues use 5th graders against 3rd graders. Publicly posting D.OB. info would be a free, easy, no cost way to at least level the factual playing field.

Second sentence = facts!

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Re: holdbacks
Anonymous #359395 12/07/21 10:44 AM
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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
I'm fine with my on age kid playing against holdbacks. Good players play up, not down. Simple way to solve the holdback issue, and it doesn't take reform from U.S. Lacrosse, just a little transparency from HoCo.
Every HoCo team should have to submit a roster that includes birthdates of each player. Post that info - no names identifying kids - just the D.OB. and zip code for each player on the team on the HoCo web site. Then everyone would see what teams are really 'elite' and what teams are just stacking their rosters with holdbacks and double holdbacks.
I do think it is a safety issue when certain clubs with anger issues use 5th graders against 3rd graders. Publicly posting D.OB. info would be a free, easy, no cost way to at least level the factual playing field.

Second sentence = facts!

Who is dad gonna impress at the water cooler if his kid is on age and average. Remember what this is all about. Feeding parents egos. Get with the program.

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Re: holdbacks
TM@BOTC #359410 12/07/21 11:46 AM
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holdback discussion infinite loop:

Parents of on age kids who aren’t quite good enough to start but can play at the elite level against holdbacks—>>> moderately complain but understand that’s the way it is and generally keep it moving.

Parents of on age kids who are able to play and start against holdbacks —>> also understand it stinks but it’s generally realize in 4 years their sons will be a level above the holdbacks anyway.

Parents of holdbacks who are killing it at the elite level —>> hit the wall, play soccer, check the rankings we rule!

Parents of holdbacks who are riding the bench —>> generally silent as they quietly know their sons are going to constantly stay on the bubble to be cut every season from here on out.

Parents of AAA kids who are hovering around elite - generally the most vitriol. Feels that if there were no holdbacks taking their kids place theyd be where they want to be. This crew is TOXIC.

Parents of on age kids who are not very good at all —>> usually the loudest and somehow equate other older kids as being the reason their son isn’t a better player. That has nothing to do with anything but when your looking for an excuse - blame holdbacks.

Parents of kids playing and contributing somewhere around AA ball —>> generally seem to have the most fun just watching their sons play where they are.

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Re: holdbacks
Anonymous #359432 12/07/21 01:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Anonymous
holdback discussion infinite loop:

Parents of on age kids who aren’t quite good enough to start but can play at the elite level against holdbacks—>>> moderately complain but understand that’s the way it is and generally keep it moving.

Parents of on age kids who are able to play and start against holdbacks —>> also understand it stinks but it’s generally realize in 4 years their sons will be a level above the holdbacks anyway.

Parents of holdbacks who are killing it at the elite level —>> hit the wall, play soccer, check the rankings we rule!

Parents of holdbacks who are riding the bench —>> generally silent as they quietly know their sons are going to constantly stay on the bubble to be cut every season from here on out.

Parents of AAA kids who are hovering around elite - generally the most vitriol. Feels that if there were no holdbacks taking their kids place theyd be where they want to be. This crew is TOXIC.

Parents of on age kids who are not very good at all —>> usually the loudest and somehow equate other older kids as being the reason their son isn’t a better player. That has nothing to do with anything but when your looking for an excuse - blame holdbacks.

Parents of kids playing and contributing somewhere around AA ball —>> generally seem to have the most fun just watching their sons play where they are.

Good summary. Fortunately my kid is in the category of on-age and undersized but still competes at the elite level versus holdbacks. These types of kids have tone of upside once they hit puberty.

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Re: holdbacks
TM@BOTC #359436 12/07/21 01:21 PM
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Ok, there is a reason people hold back!!! Look at the College players. How many of the top players in college now in the top 10 colleges were “holdbacks” back when?

You sound like a holdback parent, trying to rationalize it as the “non holdback” parents that are the real problem!? Youth lacrosse needs to address the holdback issue! Period!!

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