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Re: Boys 2026-8th Grade Fall 2021/Summer 2022
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Take the L and move on.

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Re: Boys 2026-8th Grade Fall 2021/Summer 2022
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fall is over and express is still rated number 1 with the loss.

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
1. Express 2. Crabs 3. Sweetlax and 4. Dc Express. 91 should also be in the conversation.

DC Express lost to Stealth in Pinnacle Championship. They are not #4. They are like 10-12.

Get real. Sweetlax won NAL and beat Tigers in the final. Sweetlax is #1. Express not in the conversation for #1.

Sweetlax has beaten everybody they've played in the last 2 years and has only lost to 2 clubs teams during that time. One loss to the Towermen and wait for it... 7 or 8 losses in a row to LIE. For now, the top 3 teams in the country are LIE, Sweetlax and the Tigers. There are a few teams that may win a game or 2 along the way, but these 3 teams remain the best and most consistent. For all the ranting on BOTC, you'd think most of you would know the 2026 teams that routinely play in all the major championships. Either way, young boys with a lot of lacrosse in front of them. Enjoy the ride!

Thanks same old EXPRESS Dad!

Not an express dad lol, but whatever helps you make it through the day, by all means vent. To that end, my son's team has played these top 3 teams and I've gotten to see them up close on several occasions. From my perspective:

1. LIE is still the most complete team and is coached really well. Coach C get's the most out of his kids. Not the most athletic or physically dominant team, but they execute really well and have a dominant face off guy. This may change this year with all the holdbacks, but they'll remain in the hunt all year. They also added a few 2025s that will be a big help in the summer. Plus, the simply practice and play... often!

2. Sweetlax may be the most athletic team from top to bottom and added an awesome goalie. My biggest observation this fall is that they have limited their ball movement which was once better than any team I've seen at this age. Looks like they added some players but their ball movement has suffered. Maybe why their AGD has changed so much this fall? Still, they will be in the top 3 until proven otherwise.

3. Tigers have looked really strong this fall and had Sweetlax on the ropes on 2 different occasions and beat LIE. They have some talented offensive players and the face-off guy has been solid. Defense looks much improved as well.

Crabs and their holdback team will likely compete due to playing with very few actual 2026s, but until they show up and play the top 3 teams, they shouldn't have any claim to the top 3 spots. As I said, this will be settled on the field and if you have yet to see the top 3 teams play, you might want to check them out to see why they're so good and still playing in virtually every championship bracket.

Re: Boys 2026-8th Grade Fall 2021/Summer 2022
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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
1. Express 2. Crabs 3. Sweetlax and 4. Dc Express. 91 should also be in the conversation.

DC Express lost to Stealth in Pinnacle Championship. They are not #4. They are like 10-12.

Get real. Sweetlax won NAL and beat Tigers in the final. Sweetlax is #1. Express not in the conversation for #1.

Sweetlax has beaten everybody they've played in the last 2 years and has only lost to 2 clubs teams during that time. One loss to the Towermen and wait for it... 7 or 8 losses in a row to LIE. For now, the top 3 teams in the country are LIE, Sweetlax and the Tigers. There are a few teams that may win a game or 2 along the way, but these 3 teams remain the best and most consistent. For all the ranting on BOTC, you'd think most of you would know the 2026 teams that routinely play in all the major championships. Either way, young boys with a lot of lacrosse in front of them. Enjoy the ride!

Thanks same old EXPRESS Dad!

Not an express dad lol, but whatever helps you make it through the day, by all means vent. To that end, my son's team has played these top 3 teams and I've gotten to see them up close on several occasions. From my perspective:

1. LIE is still the most complete team and is coached really well. Coach C get's the most out of his kids. Not the most athletic or physically dominant team, but they execute really well and have a dominant face off guy. This may change this year with all the holdbacks, but they'll remain in the hunt all year. They also added a few 2025s that will be a big help in the summer. Plus, the simply practice and play... often!

2. Sweetlax may be the most athletic team from top to bottom and added an awesome goalie. My biggest observation this fall is that they have limited their ball movement which was once better than any team I've seen at this age. Looks like they added some players but their ball movement has suffered. Maybe why their AGD has changed so much this fall? Still, they will be in the top 3 until proven otherwise.

3. Tigers have looked really strong this fall and had Sweetlax on the ropes on 2 different occasions and beat LIE. They have some talented offensive players and the face-off guy has been solid. Defense looks much improved as well.

Crabs and their holdback team will likely compete due to playing with very few actual 2026s, but until they show up and play the top 3 teams, they shouldn't have any claim to the top 3 spots. As I said, this will be settled on the field and if you have yet to see the top 3 teams play, you might want to check them out to see why they're so good and still playing in virtually every championship bracket.

We are all getting tired of your detailed breakdowns of 8th grade lacrosse teams. Get a life.

Re: Boys 2026-8th Grade Fall 2021/Summer 2022
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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
1. Express 2. Crabs 3. Sweetlax and 4. Dc Express. 91 should also be in the conversation.

DC Express lost to Stealth in Pinnacle Championship. They are not #4. They are like 10-12.

Get real. Sweetlax won NAL and beat Tigers in the final. Sweetlax is #1. Express not in the conversation for #1.

Sweetlax has beaten everybody they've played in the last 2 years and has only lost to 2 clubs teams during that time. One loss to the Towermen and wait for it... 7 or 8 losses in a row to LIE. For now, the top 3 teams in the country are LIE, Sweetlax and the Tigers. There are a few teams that may win a game or 2 along the way, but these 3 teams remain the best and most consistent. For all the ranting on BOTC, you'd think most of you would know the 2026 teams that routinely play in all the major championships. Either way, young boys with a lot of lacrosse in front of them. Enjoy the ride!

Thanks same old EXPRESS Dad!

Not an express dad lol, but whatever helps you make it through the day, by all means vent. To that end, my son's team has played these top 3 teams and I've gotten to see them up close on several occasions. From my perspective:

1. LIE is still the most complete team and is coached really well. Coach C get's the most out of his kids. Not the most athletic or physically dominant team, but they execute really well and have a dominant face off guy. This may change this year with all the holdbacks, but they'll remain in the hunt all year. They also added a few 2025s that will be a big help in the summer. Plus, the simply practice and play... often!

2. Sweetlax may be the most athletic team from top to bottom and added an awesome goalie. My biggest observation this fall is that they have limited their ball movement which was once better than any team I've seen at this age. Looks like they added some players but their ball movement has suffered. Maybe why their AGD has changed so much this fall? Still, they will be in the top 3 until proven otherwise.

3. Tigers have looked really strong this fall and had Sweetlax on the ropes on 2 different occasions and beat LIE. They have some talented offensive players and the face-off guy has been solid. Defense looks much improved as well.

Crabs and their holdback team will likely compete due to playing with very few actual 2026s, but until they show up and play the top 3 teams, they shouldn't have any claim to the top 3 spots. As I said, this will be settled on the field and if you have yet to see the top 3 teams play, you might want to check them out to see why they're so good and still playing in virtually every championship bracket.

Thanks Express dad. Issue is your team lost to the Tigers. In the Championship game of NAL, Sweetlax beat the Tigers by one. So Sweetlax is #1. Also Express lost to the Crabs a few weeks ago. So Express is #4. Any questions?

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Re: Boys 2026-8th Grade Fall 2021/Summer 2022
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:

1. LIE is still the most complete team and is coached really well. Coach C get's the most out of his kids. Not the most athletic or physically dominant team, but they execute really well and have a dominant face off guy. This may change this year with all the holdbacks, but they'll remain in the hunt all year. They also added a few 2025s that will be a big help in the summer. Plus, the simply practice and play... often!

2. Sweetlax may be the most athletic team from top to bottom and added an awesome goalie. My biggest observation this fall is that they have limited their ball movement which was once better than any team I've seen at this age. Looks like they added some players but their ball movement has suffered. Maybe why their AGD has changed so much this fall? Still, they will be in the top 3 until proven otherwise.

3. Tigers have looked really strong this fall and had Sweetlax on the ropes on 2 different occasions and beat LIE. They have some talented offensive players and the face-off guy has been solid. Defense looks much improved as well.

Crabs and their holdback team will likely compete due to playing with very few actual 2026s, but until they show up and play the top 3 teams, they shouldn't have any claim to the top 3 spots. As I said, this will be settled on the field and if you have yet to see the top 3 teams play, you might want to check them out to see why they're so good and still playing in virtually every championship bracket.[/quote]

We are all getting tired of your detailed breakdowns of 8th grade lacrosse teams. Get a life.[/quote]

I didn’t post that comment, but I don’t see what’s wrong with it.
This forum is full of all types of entertaining, ridiculous, and informative comments.
If you don’t like the details, why are you reading and commenting on here and not tending to your amazing life? You only want to see people put each other down or make rude comments? That’s an honest question. What do you hope to find here if not a civilized comment or discussion about something in which we all clearly have an interest? We can’t all just say “sorry your kid got cut” or this forum would be a dead end.

Re: Boys 2026-8th Grade Fall 2021/Summer 2022
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BOTC official Best teams by state:
NY: Sweetlax by a lot
LI: yea I know it’s not an actual state - Express
CT: Express North
MA: 3D NE - LXC fell off
PA: Tigers by a ton
NJ: Towermen - until LE beats them
MD: Crabs. Sorry Hawks. Your reign is over
VA: toss up between VLC and MadLax

Top 5:
Sweetlax
LI Express
Tigers
Crabs
Towermen

Re: Boys 2026-8th Grade Fall 2021/Summer 2022
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That’s hilarious calling out crabs about holdbacks! How many holdbacks are on your team?

Re: Boys 2026-8th Grade Fall 2021/Summer 2022
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Originally Posted by Anonymous
BOTC official Best teams by state:
NY: Sweetlax by a lot
LI: yea I know it’s not an actual state - Express
CT: Express North
MA: 3D NE - LXC fell off
PA: Tigers by a ton
NJ: Towermen - until LE beats them
MD: Crabs. Sorry Hawks. Your reign is over
VA: toss up between VLC and MadLax

Top 5:
Sweetlax
LI Express
Tigers
Crabs
Towermen

You forgot DC Express.

Re: Boys 2026-8th Grade Fall 2021/Summer 2022
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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
BOTC official Best teams by state:
NY: Sweetlax by a lot
LI: yea I know it’s not an actual state - Express
CT: Express North
MA: 3D NE - LXC fell off
PA: Tigers by a ton
NJ: Towermen - until LE beats them
MD: Crabs. Sorry Hawks. Your reign is over
VA: toss up between VLC and MadLax

Top 5:
Sweetlax
LI Express
Tigers
Crabs
Towermen

You forgot DC Express.

Did we ? No intentional. Dce not in this conversation. also intentional to leave out towermommys. Also angry crabs daddy. It’s only Sweetlax , tigers and express and that is a coin toss.

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Re: Boys 2026-8th Grade Fall 2021/Summer 2022
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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
BOTC official Best teams by state:
NY: Sweetlax by a lot
LI: yea I know it’s not an actual state - Express
CT: Express North
MA: 3D NE - LXC fell off
PA: Tigers by a ton
NJ: Towermen - until LE beats them
MD: Crabs. Sorry Hawks. Your reign is over
VA: toss up between VLC and MadLax

Top 5:
Sweetlax
LI Express
Tigers
Crabs
Towermen

You forgot DC Express.

Did we ? No intentional. Dce not in this conversation. also intentional to leave out towermommys. Also angry crabs daddy. It’s only Sweetlax , tigers and express and that is a coin toss.


NJ not in discussion nationally or regionally until they have a sophomore year class top 5 team national team after a summer sophomore season. Will 25 BBL or LE do it their sophomore year? Will 26 Towermen or LE do it? I doubt it. Enjoy the 8th grade rankings.

Re: Boys 2026-8th Grade Fall 2021/Summer 2022
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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
BOTC official Best teams by state:
NY: Sweetlax by a lot
LI: yea I know it’s not an actual state - Express
CT: Express North
MA: 3D NE - LXC fell off
PA: Tigers by a ton
NJ: Towermen - until LE beats them
MD: Crabs. Sorry Hawks. Your reign is over
VA: toss up between VLC and MadLax

Top 5:
Sweetlax
LI Express
Tigers
Crabs
Towermen

You forgot DC Express.

Did we ? No intentional. Dce not in this conversation. also intentional to leave out towermommys. Also angry crabs daddy. It’s only Sweetlax , tigers and express and that is a coin toss.


NJ not in discussion nationally or regionally until they have a sophomore year class top 5 team national team after a summer sophomore season. Will 25 BBL or LE do it their sophomore year? Will 26 Towermen or LE do it? I doubt it. Enjoy the 8th grade rankings.

It’s a 2026 ranking meathead

Re: Boys 2026-8th Grade Fall 2021/Summer 2022
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Originally Posted by Anonymous
That’s hilarious calling out crabs about holdbacks! How many holdbacks are on your team?

Look, your team isn’t breaking any rules but please, own up to the fact that the crabs are only competing at this level due to a massive influx of holdbacks. Just say it… it may actually feel liberating to get it off your shoulders.

Re: Boys 2026-8th Grade Fall 2021/Summer 2022
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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
That’s hilarious calling out crabs about holdbacks! How many holdbacks are on your team?

Look, your team isn’t breaking any rules but please, own up to the fact that the crabs are only competing at this level due to a massive influx of holdbacks. Just say it… it may actually feel liberating to get it off your shoulders.

Simple request. Can you go back to the Maryland thread please?

Re: Boys 2026-8th Grade Fall 2021/Summer 2022
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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
BOTC official Best teams by state:
NY: Sweetlax by a lot
LI: yea I know it’s not an actual state - Express
CT: Express North
MA: 3D NE - LXC fell off
PA: Tigers by a ton
NJ: Towermen - until LE beats them
MD: Crabs. Sorry Hawks. Your reign is over
VA: toss up between VLC and MadLax

Top 5:
Sweetlax
LI Express
Tigers
Crabs
Towermen

You forgot DC Express.

Did we ? No intentional. Dce not in this conversation. also intentional to leave out towermommys. Also angry crabs daddy. It’s only Sweetlax , tigers and express and that is a coin toss.


NJ not in discussion nationally or regionally until they have a sophomore year class top 5 team national team after a summer sophomore season. Will 25 BBL or LE do it their sophomore year? Will 26 Towermen or LE do it? I doubt it. Enjoy the 8th grade rankings.

It’s a 2026 ranking meathead


100% Towermen Dad. Yes enjoy 8th. NJ is irrelevant once high school arrives.

Re: Boys 2026-8th Grade Fall 2021/Summer 2022
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His SONS team has at least three😂

Re: Boys 2026-8th Grade Fall 2021/Summer 2022
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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
BOTC official Best teams by state:
NY: Sweetlax by a lot
LI: yea I know it’s not an actual state - Express
CT: Express North
MA: 3D NE - LXC fell off
PA: Tigers by a ton
NJ: Towermen - until LE beats them
MD: Crabs. Sorry Hawks. Your reign is over
VA: toss up between VLC and MadLax

Top 5:
Sweetlax
LI Express
Tigers
Crabs
Towermen

You forgot DC Express.

Did we ? No intentional. Dce not in this conversation. also intentional to leave out towermommys. Also angry crabs daddy. It’s only Sweetlax , tigers and express and that is a coin toss.


NJ not in discussion nationally or regionally until they have a sophomore year class top 5 team national team after a summer sophomore season. Will 25 BBL or LE do it their sophomore year? Will 26 Towermen or LE do it? I doubt it. Enjoy the 8th grade rankings.

It’s a 2026 ranking meathead


100% Towermen Dad. Yes enjoy 8th. NJ is irrelevant once high school arrives.

Maybe. Let’s compare notes in 3 years.

Re: Boys 2026-8th Grade Fall 2021/Summer 2022
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Originally Posted by Anonymous
That’s hilarious calling out crabs about holdbacks! How many holdbacks are on your team?

Crabs have so many they actually needed to start a separate team just for 2026 on age kids. It may be pushing past the grey area. We all have some NY,NJ,MD,PA,CO, ***have you seen the Kings defenders...but! Shame and pride is not something the Crabs organization has any sense of. So move on smile and laugh when you are playing against a kid who struggles with basic math and is actually repeating a grade for the sake of youth club lacrosse director. You will ultimately have the last laugh when next year hits and everything evens out with competition. Enjoy the circus for what it is now.

Re: Boys 2026-8th Grade Fall 2021/Summer 2022
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91 is in the mix with any of these teams come the summer. They had a hot fall, and will continue to work and get better. Good Luck to all other teams.

Re: Boys 2026-8th Grade Fall 2021/Summer 2022
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Originally Posted by Anonymous
91 is in the mix with any of these teams come the summer. They had a hot fall, and will continue to work and get better. Good Luck to all other teams.

First beat a good team before you talk that mess.

Re: Boys 2026-8th Grade Fall 2021/Summer 2022
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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
That’s hilarious calling out crabs about holdbacks! How many holdbacks are on your team?

Crabs have so many they actually needed to start a separate team just for 2026 on age kids. It may be pushing past the grey area. We all have some NY,NJ,MD,PA,CO, ***have you seen the Kings defenders...but! Shame and pride is not something the Crabs organization has any sense of. So move on smile and laugh when you are playing against a kid who struggles with basic math and is actually repeating a grade for the sake of youth club lacrosse director. You will ultimately have the last laugh when next year hits and everything evens out with competition. Enjoy the circus for what it is now.

Reading comprehension? Move on, have a laugh and wait until High School.

Re: Boys 2026-8th Grade Fall 2021/Summer 2022
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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
91 is in the mix with any of these teams come the summer. They had a hot fall, and will continue to work and get better. Good Luck to all other teams.

First beat a good team before you talk that mess.

Haha

Re: Boys 2026-8th Grade Fall 2021/Summer 2022
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91 ranked number 11 in the country, moving up the charts, but summer will be solid top 5 team.

Re: Boys 2026-8th Grade Fall 2021/Summer 2022
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Originally Posted by Anonymous
91 ranked number 11 in the country, moving up the charts, but summer will be solid top 5 team.

Keep dreaming

Re: Boys 2026-8th Grade Fall 2021/Summer 2022
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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
91 ranked number 11 in the country, moving up the charts, but summer will be solid top 5 team.

Keep dreaming

Saw them play last weekend in between my sons games. They are a solid B team. Anyone saying they’re an A team is just wrong or a 91 parent. They have 2 fast middies and that really it. Many can barely catch and throw.

Re: Boys 2026-8th Grade Fall 2021/Summer 2022
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On Thanksgiving Day, nothing better to do. So sad, you people.

Re: Boys 2026-8th Grade Fall 2021/Summer 2022
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Originally Posted by Anonymous
On Thanksgiving Day, nothing better to do. So sad, you people.


says the guy posting on thanksgiving...... the brain power on this board is amazing!!

Re: Boys 2026-8th Grade Fall 2021/Summer 2022
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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
91 ranked number 11 in the country, moving up the charts, but summer will be solid top 5 team.

Keep dreaming

Saw them play last weekend in between my sons games. They are a solid B team. Anyone saying they’re an A team is just wrong or a 91 parent. They have 2 fast middies and that really it. Many can barely catch and throw.


just not true, they will be top 10 by the end of the year. Stop being a hater.

Re: Boys 2026-8th Grade Fall 2021/Summer 2022
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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
91 ranked number 11 in the country, moving up the charts, but summer will be solid top 5 team.

Keep dreaming

Saw them play last weekend in between my sons games. They are a solid B team. Anyone saying they’re an A team is just wrong or a 91 parent. They have 2 fast middies and that really it. Many can barely catch and throw.


just not true, they will be top 10 by the end of the year. Stop being a hater.

This is the issue with 2026 91 Storm parents and coaches. They don’t even know what they don’t know. Best of luck to you. When was the last time you played Express? Over a year ago? I wonder why that hasn’t happened…..we all know Express will play anyone, anywhere, anytime.

Re: Boys 2026-8th Grade Fall 2021/Summer 2022
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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
91 ranked number 11 in the country, moving up the charts, but summer will be solid top 5 team.

Keep dreaming

Saw them play last weekend in between my sons games. They are a solid B team. Anyone saying they’re an A team is just wrong or a 91 parent. They have 2 fast middies and that really it. Many can barely catch and throw.


just not true, they will be top 10 by the end of the year. Stop being a hater.

You're a parent with a kid on the team. Of course you would think they'll be top 10. They're not even top 30.

Re: Boys 2026-8th Grade Fall 2021/Summer 2022
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I know that’s hard believe for parents of a 91 team, but for this grade the team is good, but not a top team.

Re: Boys 2026-8th Grade Fall 2021/Summer 2022
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actually right now they are 11.

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Have to chime in regarding the Kings defenders. They are both on age. Big and aggressive but are still only recently 14. Last summer at NLF they hadn’t turned 14 yet and were talking to the Sweetlax attack who were 15 already. We do t do holdbacks here in Colorado.

Re: Boys 2026-8th Grade Fall 2021/Summer 2022
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so are you saying if you have a 13 year old playing in 2026 you are an stunad even though he is in 8th grade?

Re: Boys 2026-8th Grade Fall 2021/Summer 2022
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Hawks attack too. Should be 2025s. I get waiting to start school with a Summer birthday so that they aren’t the youngest (or even reclassing with a kid who started school early). But repeating a grade solely for lacrosse is rediculous. Should be a March 1, 2007 age cutoff to eliminate this nonsense.

Re: Boys 2026-8th Grade Fall 2021/Summer 2022
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Originally Posted by Anonymous
actually right now they are 11.

Yeah. When you play in B tournaments you'll win. Play in A tournaments you don't win a single game.

Re: Boys 2026-8th Grade Fall 2021/Summer 2022
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Not sure what you mean. Most of the 2026’s should still be 13. I’d say January 2008 is the average birthday for a 2026. At least an on age one.

Re: Boys 2026-8th Grade Fall 2021/Summer 2022
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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Have to chime in regarding the Kings defenders. They are both on age. Big and aggressive but are still only recently 14. Last summer at NLF they hadn’t turned 14 yet and were talking to the Sweetlax attack who were 15 already. We do t do holdbacks here in Colorado.

Not an ounce of truth to the 2026 Sweetlax attack being 15 and holdbacks are rare in Upstate NY as well due to very good public schools. The Kings play a weaker schedule and need to beat the best NE teams to be deemed elite.

Re: Boys 2026-8th Grade Fall 2021/Summer 2022
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You've reached and far exceeded the amount one should use the word stunad.

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
91 ranked number 11 in the country, moving up the charts, but summer will be solid top 5 team.

Keep dreaming

Saw them play last weekend in between my sons games. They are a solid B team. Anyone saying they’re an A team is just wrong or a 91 parent. They have 2 fast middies and that really it. Many can barely catch and throw.


just not true, they will be top 10 by the end of the year. Stop being a hater.

This is the issue with 2026 91 Storm parents and coaches. They don’t even know what they don’t know. Best of luck to you. When was the last time you played Express? Over a year ago? I wonder why that hasn’t happened…..we all know Express will play anyone, anywhere, anytime.

Once again says the obnoxious Express Dad! You act like you play. Let me guess you are the guy who carries Coach C folding chair around at tournaments. You give the other nice Express parents a bad name .

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