BOTC BOTC
The UnD1sputed Showcase (Boys & Girls) in June & the Girls LI Showcase is Open for Registration on CBLaxers.com - Don't Miss Out as 88 Players Only Accepted! | Invest for Growth - ADVERTISE with us!
BOTC GIRLS BOTC BOY BACK OF THE CAGE
BOTC GIRLS BOTC BOY MOST RECENT POSTS
Boys High School Lax
by Anonymous -
Girls High School
by Anonymous -
BOTC GIRLS BOTC BOY Forum Statistics
Forums20
Topics3,802
Posts385,579
Members2,606
Most Online62,980
Feb 6th, 2020
BOTC GIRLS BOTC BOY FOLLOW US ON TWITTER
Previous Thread
Next Thread
New Reply
Print Thread
Rate Thread
Page 5 of 9 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9
Re: Boys 2024
A
Anonymous
Unregistered
Anonymous
Unregistered
A
Why is the NXT FOGO not playing with Dukes Nationals anymore? DN lost their best FOGO to the Bandits also. What going on at this age for G

Like Reply Quote
BOTC GIRLS BOTC BOY BACK OF THE CAGE SPONSORS

Re: Boys 2024
A
Anonymous
Unregistered
Anonymous
Unregistered
A
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Looks like NXT 2024 further cemented themselves as the best 2024 team in Philly

Originally Posted by Anonymous
Looks like NXT 2024 further cemented themselves as the best 2024 team in Philly


Hey guy as a Philly Lax fan congrats on the win at autumn classic usually a very good tournament
But honestly that schedule was weak that Crabs Team is average at best. Notice their 2024 was the bottom of the barrel the previous year. Parity is good and makes us all better but let’s see what happens in the Spring and Summer if you win then go ahead and say you are the best, but say it after fall ball you just look silly. Take a look at inside Lacrosse they talk a ton about fall ball games but you don’t See anyone sayin they are the best.

Like Reply Quote
Re: Boys 2024
A
Anonymous
Unregistered
Anonymous
Unregistered
A
Well according to other posts, the DN 2024 team has issues on and off the playing field. Maybe the family got tired of the circus!

Like Reply Quote
Re: Boys 2024
A
Anonymous
Unregistered
Anonymous
Unregistered
A
Looks like they are playing at Victory against the top teams from Brotherly Love BBL
And Roughriders predictions?

Like Reply Quote
Re: Boys 2024
A
Anonymous
Unregistered
Anonymous
Unregistered
A
It's fall who cares...

Like Reply Quote
BOTC GIRLS BOTC BOY Sponsored Links
Re: Boys 2024
A
Anonymous
Unregistered
Anonymous
Unregistered
A
Originally Posted by Anonymous
It's fall who cares...


That’s a [lacrosse] poor attitude what are you depressed? Let me guess, that last promotion you thought was yours...didn’t get it did you.

Like Reply Quote
Re: Boys 2024
A
Anonymous
Unregistered
Anonymous
Unregistered
A
All the good athletes are playing championship football and starting their basketball season. Be careful not to burn the kid out Daddy.

Like Reply Quote
Re: Boys 2024
A
Anonymous
Unregistered
Anonymous
Unregistered
A
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Watched the kid play he is ridiculously good for a kid his age but he looks like he could be 3 years younger than the rest of the team. Being a FOGO at this age he is either destined to get burnt out or hurt. Once some of the bigger kids just start jamming him he will be in trouble. But for now live it up that NXT team will be solid with him once he moves on to play for a team that plays bigger tournaments they will be toast.


Saw the NXT kid in the spring he is a beast but will start to,struggle unless he grows by 8th grade.

Best FOGO I ever saw in person was summer after 6th grade the Panda kid for LI Express. Killed it every time. Saw him recently and big FOGOS are jamming him and hammering him. He is much less effective, still good but not dominating anymore.

Like Reply Quote
Re: Boys 2024
A
Anonymous
Unregistered
Anonymous
Unregistered
A
2022 daddy here
It all changes in the next few years
The dominant FOGOs especially
Size matters there
And the chubby attackman start to lose effectiveness and are quickly sidelined
Tall poles, 2 way middies, monster FOGOs, athletic attackmen
Kids who used to rely on size to dominate are neutralized and become a liability
It's fun to see the kids that were small but skilled gain size and dominate those that owned them when they were 11
Enjoy the ride

Like Reply Quote
Re: Boys 2024
A
Anonymous
Unregistered
Anonymous
Unregistered
A
Yea look at that kid who balled out in Middle School and now can't walk

Like Reply Quote
BOTC GIRLS BOTC BOY Sponsored Links
Re: Boys 2024
A
Anonymous
Unregistered
Anonymous
Unregistered
A
Originally Posted by Anonymous
2022 daddy here
It all changes in the next few years
The dominant FOGOs especially
Size matters there
And the chubby attackman start to lose effectiveness and are quickly sidelined
Tall poles, 2 way middies, monster FOGOs, athletic attackmen
Kids who used to rely on size to dominate are neutralized and become a liability
It's fun to see the kids that were small but skilled gain size and dominate those that owned them when they were 11
Enjoy the ride


I'm watching the chubby attackmen thing happen on my sons team.... lack of speed is becoming much more problematic than the positives that their size brings them. Hard when you're used to running through people....

Like Reply Quote
Re: Boys 2024
A
Anonymous
Unregistered
Anonymous
Unregistered
A
Originally Posted by Anonymous
2022 daddy here
It all changes in the next few years
The dominant FOGOs especially
Size matters there
And the chubby attackman start to lose effectiveness and are quickly sidelined
Tall poles, 2 way middies, monster FOGOs, athletic attackmen
Kids who used to rely on size to dominate are neutralized and become a liability
It's fun to see the kids that were small but skilled gain size and dominate those that owned them when they were 11
Enjoy the ride


All %100 true. My son is a good side D but not super tall so they moved him to LSM were his athleticism (must have gotten it from his mom) and good size are perfect he is tearing it up.

Used to be a above average close D but coaches looking for athletic tall monsters there now.

Like Reply Quote
Re: Boys 2024
A
Anonymous
Unregistered
Anonymous
Unregistered
A
I am a 2024 parent and stumbled across this thread looking for summer camps. I read every comment and found myself disheartened by the whole thing but glad to see there are crazy parents everywhere not just on the team my son is on. BL is a darn good team and deserve the ranking at one. That being said they are teaching lessons I don't want my kids to learn. I hope the new coaching can clean up their BS. NXT has come out of no where in the past 2 years with a fogo that can't lose. Uprising is a solid club with solid coaching as is Freedom and RR.

My question is this. BL, NXT, Freedom and RR all pull from the same general part of Chester County. Where is the rest of the state? No teams from Delaware, Bucks and Montgomery Counties? Southern Lehigh High School made a good run at State championship a few years back. Where do they play club? Do all the main line kids play Uprising? Haverford School, Stoga, LaSalle, CB East and West. Where are they playing in 6th grade?
Imagine if some of these teams pulled together. Could they compete with the Madlax, Crabs and Loonies teams? Even the National teams?
Speculate all you want. Here are the rankings as they are playing each other right now in NXT Spring league.

Brotherly Love 2024 Hercules 6 0 0 18 20
NXT 2024 Black 5 1 0 15 29
Uprising 2024 4 2 0 12 10
Freedom 2024 Red 3 3 0 9 9
PA Roughriders 2024 3 3 0 9 2
Team 11 2024 1 3 2 5 -14
Tri State 2024 0 5 1 1 -16

Like Reply Quote
Re: Boys 2024
A
Anonymous
Unregistered
Anonymous
Unregistered
A
I would love to hear what BS lessons they are teaching?

Like Reply Quote
Re: Boys 2024
A
Anonymous
Unregistered
Anonymous
Unregistered
A
The answer is HHH which competes in the NLF against 91, Crabs, etc. HHH only plays summer tournaments, so most players play in spring for Uprising, Freedom, Rough Riders. The 2022 HHH team has players from all over (Mont Co, Del Co, Lehigh Valley, Chester Co). The 2024 team also is starting to see an influx of players from all over. Billy McKinney and the HHH staff focus on player development, not on middle schoolers winning tournaments.

Like Reply Quote
Re: Boys 2024
A
Anonymous
Unregistered
Anonymous
Unregistered
A
Lol
HHH won’t play local teams for fear they will get smoked and people will realize the program isn’t that great. They play NLF and lose games 15-0...

Like Reply Quote
Re: Boys 2024
A
Anonymous
Unregistered
Anonymous
Unregistered
A
If you ha
Originally Posted by Anonymous
I would love to hear what BS lessons they are teaching?

If you have played for them, against them, or near them you know what kind of shenanigans they have done in the past. New coaches, new blood. I will give them the benefit of the doubt. Can't wait to see what comes of this BL "national team". Looks like an attempt to move 1 or 2 boys to them from other clubs.

Like Reply Quote
Re: Boys 2024
A
Anonymous
Unregistered
Anonymous
Unregistered
A
Originally Posted by Anonymous
The answer is HHH which competes in the NLF against 91, Crabs, etc. HHH only plays summer tournaments, so most players play in spring for Uprising, Freedom, Rough Riders. The 2022 HHH team has players from all over (Mont Co, Del Co, Lehigh Valley, Chester Co). The 2024 team also is starting to see an influx of players from all over. Billy McKinney and the HHH staff focus on player development, not on middle schoolers winning tournaments.


I don't see much of them at tourneys. I know some boys who have gone there and like the experience. I will keep them on the horizon. Thanks!

Like Reply Quote
Re: Boys 2024
A
Anonymous
Unregistered
Anonymous
Unregistered
A
LOL? Big 4 HHH 2022 team only lost 3 games this past summer in the NLF (16-3 record). What other local club team had a better record against the top teams in the country?

Like Reply Quote
Re: Boys 2024
A
Anonymous
Unregistered
Anonymous
Unregistered
A
Originally Posted by Anonymous
LOL? Big 4 HHH 2022 team only lost 3 games this past summer in the NLF (16-3 record). What other local club team had a better record against the top teams in the country?

HHH plays the same teams over and over again in the NLF. They are over rated and Billy's philosophy of "take a run" has become a joke. Just watch them and you will see that they play like they are at a showcase. Give the ball to the so called "super star" middies and let them "take a run" while multiple players are wide open. Don't pay attention to the HYPE!

Like Reply Quote
Re: Boys 2024
A
Anonymous
Unregistered
Anonymous
Unregistered
A
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
LOL? Big 4 HHH 2022 team only lost 3 games this past summer in the NLF (16-3 record). What other local club team had a better record against the top teams in the country?

HHH plays the same teams over and over again in the NLF. They are over rated and Billy's philosophy of "take a run" has become a joke. Just watch them and you will see that they play like they are at a showcase. Give the ball to the so called "super star" middies and let them "take a run" while multiple players are wide open. Don't pay attention to the HYPE!


So true. People are figuring it out. The top kids are all going to the Sons.

Like Reply Quote
Re: Boys 2024
A
Anonymous
Unregistered
Anonymous
Unregistered
A
Top kids going to Sons? Hahahahaha!!!

Like Reply Quote
Re: Boys 2024
A
Anonymous
Unregistered
Anonymous
Unregistered
A
Looks like 2 PA teams competing next weekend (30th) in east qualifier. Good luck to Brotherly Love and CW Elite. Thinking BL should finish top 2 (which is where you want to be coming out of the East qualifier)

Like Reply Quote
Re: Boys 2024
A
Anonymous
Unregistered
Anonymous
Unregistered
A
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Looks like 2 PA teams competing next weekend (30th) in east qualifier. Good luck to Brotherly Love and CW Elite. Thinking BL should finish top 2 (which is where you want to be coming out of the East qualifier)



BL and BBL both had pretty dominating performances in qualifying....wonder why Freedom wasn't there?

Like Reply Quote
Re: Boys 2024
A
Anonymous
Unregistered
Anonymous
Unregistered
A
Freedom not an age based team nor is another solid team in the area NXT. They have a few holdbacks and that can change dynamics of team greatly. Brotherly Love on age and always have been for most part so easy for them plus have more depth. Have to be born September 1st or later in 2005 to play WYSL.

If Brotherly Love was a Maryland team they would be a 2025 team honestly......very few teams can play age based tournaments and stay competitive with Brotherly Love, BBL or the 2 Long Island teams at the 2024 le

Like Reply Quote
Re: Boys 2024
A
Anonymous
Unregistered
Anonymous
Unregistered
A
BLLC very good 2024 Philly All-Star Team. 75% of those kids weren’t even on the team last year. This is Philly’s version of an All-Star Team. It would be like Express, Wolfpack, and Taz pulling the best kids on the Island and playing in a tournament! Imagine that happening!?!?!? BBL also very good but not the same Team without the two big kids. The East was very very very week this year. It will come down to the 3 LI Teams and the Philly All-Star team if they mesh and play well.

Like Reply Quote
Re: Boys 2024
A
Anonymous
Unregistered
Anonymous
Unregistered
A
So here is the biggest problem that the WSYL faces - in order to be the most competitive tournament in the US you need to stay grade-based. I'm okay with holdback haters disagreeing with this, but here's the reality:

1. Some "holdbacks" were held back in school as a result of maturity and/or academics - this happens with MD, NY, PA and every other state in the country. This most likely happened in kindergarten or 1st grade. How do you stigmatize this example as a plot to improve your lacrosse team? You can't. It's not the kid's fault and, let's be honest, it was most likely a great move by parents who care for their kid.

2. Some true holdbacks take place in middle school years when a family makes a decision to place their son in PREP school. This happens on the island, in the MIAA, and in the Inter-Ac. Guess what? You can't do a thing about it except complain! Once that kid is held back, he's in that grade through high school. Talk about a double-holdback all you want, but at least in PA, you cannot play a varsity sport if you turn 19 before the school year begins, so it makes no sense to hold back a student twice. The main reason for this is because PREP schools do demand more from their students and acclimating to the demands constitutes the holdback. I get that sometimes it's athletic related, but you're talking about a special athlete in this case so spare me with it "happens all the time". I also know that PREP schools allow for a double-holdback but if this is your main argument about advantages, you're looking at a very small percentage of players.

3. PA players aren't drawing from the same geography as LI. LI has 7 million people on it. The best PA teams are located in an area of about 2 million people and I'm probably being too generous with that many. So what does that mean? It means that the LI teams will be better than the PA teams because they have a larger talent pool to choose from. Case in point: This years's BL team has been put together over a few years and is a combo team from a few different clubs. It was not homegrown talent. Also, the PA Big 5 team from last year (2023) was a combo team that included players from multiple clubs - it was a one-off team that doesn't exist anymore. The Big 5 team did well as an all-star club team but didn't reach the final with the best talent Philly had to offer.

4. The big name teams from PA, DE, MD, DC, and WV were not well represented in the East Qualifier. As a matter of fact, some of the teams that went, play in B level summer tournaments. What's the point of having a tournament where you can't get the best teams there? Wait, that's right, the NLF can claim that already. While I agree that this includes some holdback challenges, it also may have to include the fact that you have to shell out quite a few bucks to go to Denver, and pass up you're 4th of July for the year. Where are the HoCo studs (Hawks, Madlax, Looney's, FCA, Crabs, etc)? How about the PA Inter-Ac feeders (Mesa, HHH, Freedom, Duke's)? Don't be offended if I didn't list your son's team - I think you get the picture.

The East qualifier was a joke this year - the top two teams both pitched a shut out and both won games by double digits - that's not competitive. It's great for the families who have a kid on the team, but how do you tell your son, after he does well at the WSYL then comes home and gets beat at the NLF National Championships, if you are invited there, that your team isn't as good as they were in Denver? You tell them it's all about holdbacks right? Then does your kid gets a pass for losing the rest of his middle school and high school career? Because of holdbacks, hahahahahaha...

I get puberty plays a part in this, but puberty hits in a small window in/around 7th grade. Maybe a team or two get an advantage with puberty for a summer, but it will all even itself out in the long run. I bet some of you would go crazy if the WSYL drilled down their event even further to say: only age-based players who haven't hit puberty are allowed to play saying it's "not fair". Maybe if you're kid is a late-bloomer you'd support a puberty-free tourney? I don't know...

I was inclined to post this after seeing the East Qualifier scores - it was very disappointing to see the lack of talented teams and the lack of competitive games.

WSYL has to switch to grade-based to stay viable. Warrior already has their All-America games where it's grade based so I think the writing is on the wall.

Disclaimer - I have an on-age son playing for a top club team in SE Pennsylvania - he's not a 2024. When he goes up against bigger/faster/stronger I've taught him to find a way to be successful - he's a better player for it!

Like Reply Quote
Re: Boys 2024
A
Anonymous
Unregistered
Anonymous
Unregistered
A
Originally Posted by Anonymous
So here is the biggest problem that the WSYL faces - in order to be the most competitive tournament in the US you need to stay grade-based. I'm okay with holdback haters disagreeing with this, but here's the reality:

1. Some "holdbacks" were held back in school as a result of maturity and/or academics - this happens with MD, NY, PA and every other state in the country. This most likely happened in kindergarten or 1st grade. How do you stigmatize this example as a plot to improve your lacrosse team? You can't. It's not the kid's fault and, let's be honest, it was most likely a great move by parents who care for their kid.

2. Some true holdbacks take place in middle school years when a family makes a decision to place their son in PREP school. This happens on the island, in the MIAA, and in the Inter-Ac. Guess what? You can't do a thing about it except complain! Once that kid is held back, he's in that grade through high school. Talk about a double-holdback all you want, but at least in PA, you cannot play a varsity sport if you turn 19 before the school year begins, so it makes no sense to hold back a student twice. The main reason for this is because PREP schools do demand more from their students and acclimating to the demands constitutes the holdback. I get that sometimes it's athletic related, but you're talking about a special athlete in this case so spare me with it "happens all the time". I also know that PREP schools allow for a double-holdback but if this is your main argument about advantages, you're looking at a very small percentage of players.

3. PA players aren't drawing from the same geography as LI. LI has 7 million people on it. The best PA teams are located in an area of about 2 million people and I'm probably being too generous with that many. So what does that mean? It means that the LI teams will be better than the PA teams because they have a larger talent pool to choose from. Case in point: This years's BL team has been put together over a few years and is a combo team from a few different clubs. It was not homegrown talent. Also, the PA Big 5 team from last year (2023) was a combo team that included players from multiple clubs - it was a one-off team that doesn't exist anymore. The Big 5 team did well as an all-star club team but didn't reach the final with the best talent Philly had to offer.

4. The big name teams from PA, DE, MD, DC, and WV were not well represented in the East Qualifier. As a matter of fact, some of the teams that went, play in B level summer tournaments. What's the point of having a tournament where you can't get the best teams there? Wait, that's right, the NLF can claim that already. While I agree that this includes some holdback challenges, it also may have to include the fact that you have to shell out quite a few bucks to go to Denver, and pass up you're 4th of July for the year. Where are the HoCo studs (Hawks, Madlax, Looney's, FCA, Crabs, etc)? How about the PA Inter-Ac feeders (Mesa, HHH, Freedom, Duke's)? Don't be offended if I didn't list your son's team - I think you get the picture.

The East qualifier was a joke this year - the top two teams both pitched a shut out and both won games by double digits - that's not competitive. It's great for the families who have a kid on the team, but how do you tell your son, after he does well at the WSYL then comes home and gets beat at the NLF National Championships, if you are invited there, that your team isn't as good as they were in Denver? You tell them it's all about holdbacks right? Then does your kid gets a pass for losing the rest of his middle school and high school career? Because of holdbacks, hahahahahaha...

I get puberty plays a part in this, but puberty hits in a small window in/around 7th grade. Maybe a team or two get an advantage with puberty for a summer, but it will all even itself out in the long run. I bet some of you would go crazy if the WSYL drilled down their event even further to say: only age-based players who haven't hit puberty are allowed to play saying it's "not fair". Maybe if you're kid is a late-bloomer you'd support a puberty-free tourney? I don't know...

I was inclined to post this after seeing the East Qualifier scores - it was very disappointing to see the lack of talented teams and the lack of competitive games.

WSYL has to switch to grade-based to stay viable. Warrior already has their All-America games where it's grade based so I think the writing is on the wall.

Disclaimer - I have an on-age son playing for a top club team in SE Pennsylvania - he's not a 2024. When he goes up against bigger/faster/stronger I've taught him to find a way to be successful - he's a better player for it!


Agree with a lot of what you said here but not all. WSYL is a marketing gig. The team that wins will be very good if not one of the top teams at 2024, the top 4-6 teams out in Denver will all be very good teams at this age level. Most of the teams are not "Teams", they are core groups with bolt on's or completely made up teams for this event (maybe 2 or 3 clubs pooling kids together) or like a Team Israel which is just a bunch of kids who won't even know each other before that weekend. When we went, my son knew that. We went for the experience and it was definitely a lot of fun for parents and kids. No other tournament right now at the Youth level offers the "experience" that WSYL does. There was also some good lacrosse (not the best, but mostly competitive). For the clubs, its a nice little revenue generator and exposure item, for the kids it's a great memory, a bond with kids they will have forever and a nice (expensive) vacation for families. I don't think they have to change their format as long as clubs continue to buy into the marketing or see it as it is. A lacrosse experience tournament. As soon as you open it up to grade based. I was also surprised at the gap between the 2 top teams in the east and the remaining 3 that qualified. Those 3 are definitely just chalking this up to the experience as they will never make it out of pool play. There will be teams that don't qualify in the North that would beat handily the 5 seed in the east....

The top teams not represented have made a decision not to alienate kids/parents by excluding them to attend this "experience" tournament and play in more competitive events with their team. there is nothing wrong with either IMO.

Like Reply Quote
Re: Boys 2024
A
Anonymous
Unregistered
Anonymous
Unregistered
A
Good point - I hadn't fully taken into consideration the experience aspect of this. I gathered my opinion based on teams I saw competing and some of the banter from other forums here. I'm definitely in support of the experience and "grow the game" component to the Denver opportunity. I think you're insight points to an important part of youth sports that is overlooked as many only look at the competition side of it (which I was). I think folks should take time to see this as an experience then, instead of what many have labeled it as: a "true" determination of the best 202X team in the country.

Like Reply Quote
Re: Boys 2024
A
Anonymous
Unregistered
Anonymous
Unregistered
A
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Good point - I hadn't fully taken into consideration the experience aspect of this. I gathered my opinion based on teams I saw competing and some of the banter from other forums here. I'm definitely in support of the experience and "grow the game" component to the Denver opportunity. I think you're insight points to an important part of youth sports that is overlooked as many only look at the competition side of it (which I was). I think folks should take time to see this as an experience then, instead of what many have labeled it as: a "true" determination of the best 202X team in the country.


I think people take issue with the claims that WSYL make and promote about the best 13u teams and the way some clubs choose to promote their success. People need to be real about what this event is and isn't. It's a great experience with some good/great lacrosse. It's not the best 13u players in the world or the best 13u teams in the world....I agree we get so hung up about rankings and competitiveness we forget about the fun.

Like Reply Quote
Re: Boys 2024
A
Anonymous
Unregistered
Anonymous
Unregistered
A
Originally Posted by Anonymous
So here is the biggest problem that the WSYL faces - in order to be the most competitive tournament in the US you need to stay grade-based. I'm okay with holdback haters disagreeing with this, but here's the reality:

1. Some "holdbacks" were held back in school as a result of maturity and/or academics - this happens with MD, NY, PA and every other state in the country. This most likely happened in kindergarten or 1st grade. How do you stigmatize this example as a plot to improve your lacrosse team? You can't. It's not the kid's fault and, let's be honest, it was most likely a great move by parents who care for their kid.

2. Some true holdbacks take place in middle school years when a family makes a decision to place their son in PREP school. This happens on the island, in the MIAA, and in the Inter-Ac. Guess what? You can't do a thing about it except complain! Once that kid is held back, he's in that grade through high school. Talk about a double-holdback all you want, but at least in PA, you cannot play a varsity sport if you turn 19 before the school year begins, so it makes no sense to hold back a student twice. The main reason for this is because PREP schools do demand more from their students and acclimating to the demands constitutes the holdback. I get that sometimes it's athletic related, but you're talking about a special athlete in this case so spare me with it "happens all the time". I also know that PREP schools allow for a double-holdback but if this is your main argument about advantages, you're looking at a very small percentage of players.

3. PA players aren't drawing from the same geography as LI. LI has 7 million people on it. The best PA teams are located in an area of about 2 million people and I'm probably being too generous with that many. So what does that mean? It means that the LI teams will be better than the PA teams because they have a larger talent pool to choose from. Case in point: This years's BL team has been put together over a few years and is a combo team from a few different clubs. It was not homegrown talent. Also, the PA Big 5 team from last year (2023) was a combo team that included players from multiple clubs - it was a one-off team that doesn't exist anymore. The Big 5 team did well as an all-star club team but didn't reach the final with the best talent Philly had to offer.

4. The big name teams from PA, DE, MD, DC, and WV were not well represented in the East Qualifier. As a matter of fact, some of the teams that went, play in B level summer tournaments. What's the point of having a tournament where you can't get the best teams there? Wait, that's right, the NLF can claim that already. While I agree that this includes some holdback challenges, it also may have to include the fact that you have to shell out quite a few bucks to go to Denver, and pass up you're 4th of July for the year. Where are the HoCo studs (Hawks, Madlax, Looney's, FCA, Crabs, etc)? How about the PA Inter-Ac feeders (Mesa, HHH, Freedom, Duke's)? Don't be offended if I didn't list your son's team - I think you get the picture.

The East qualifier was a joke this year - the top two teams both pitched a shut out and both won games by double digits - that's not competitive. It's great for the families who have a kid on the team, but how do you tell your son, after he does well at the WSYL then comes home and gets beat at the NLF National Championships, if you are invited there, that your team isn't as good as they were in Denver? You tell them it's all about holdbacks right? Then does your kid gets a pass for losing the rest of his middle school and high school career? Because of holdbacks, hahahahahaha...

I get puberty plays a part in this, but puberty hits in a small window in/around 7th grade. Maybe a team or two get an advantage with puberty for a summer, but it will all even itself out in the long run. I bet some of you would go crazy if the WSYL drilled down their event even further to say: only age-based players who haven't hit puberty are allowed to play saying it's "not fair". Maybe if you're kid is a late-bloomer you'd support a puberty-free tourney? I don't know...

I was inclined to post this after seeing the East Qualifier scores - it was very disappointing to see the lack of talented teams and the lack of competitive games.

WSYL has to switch to grade-based to stay viable. Warrior already has their All-America games where it's grade based so I think the writing is on the wall.

Disclaimer - I have an on-age son playing for a top club team in SE Pennsylvania - he's not a 2024. When he goes up against bigger/faster/stronger I've taught him to find a way to be successful - he's a better player for it!




Wow. Bro, you got a whole lot of hot air going on there. Not one of your points. Not a single one, and anyone with a shred of common sense is laughing at all of them right now.

You're obviously one of those parents that never played the game, with a casual interest in the activity that your son is doing, but in reality you have no clue what you are looking at, or the factors that you list. But keep making up excuses for your kids team.

I could go through all of your little points, and make a donkey out of you in regards to every single one, but to tell you the truth, it's not worth my time.

Let's boil it down to one question. You are saying that the WSYL is not the best collection of 13U teams. So my question to you is, which teams are missing??

What you apparently don't realize is, there are very few elite 13U teams.

When you go to an NLF tourney, 2024 bracket, you are watching almost entirely 14U teams, except for the occasional one that would have to go under 15U. You really don't know that??

Every top tier team from MD, VA, DC, MA are 14U teams, WITHOUT EXCEPTION.

If they weren't, they'd be at the qualifier, because parents don't make the decision on whether they want to go, or if they can afford to go. That decision is made by the clubs. You put it on a credit card and you go. And there is no club, ANYWHERE, that wouldn't enter this tournament, if they qualified. There is only upside for the clubs, no down side, and the upside is... HUGE.

So, coming from a person that actually does know a whole lot about the landscape of 2024 club lacrosse... I can assure you that every top 2024 on age team (13U) will be at the WSYL, WITHOUT EXCEPTION.

2024 cheating teams that horde holdbacks, like all of the MD HoCo teams, which are comprised almost exclusively (or in some cases, entirely) of holdbacks, will not be there.

Understand? This tournament is for the 2024 kids that should actually be in the 2024 grade, and not 2023 or 2022.

So, next time you feel like writing a short story for a post, please make it on a topic where you have some expertise, because 2024 club lacrosse is obviously not one of them.

Like Reply Quote
Re: Boys 2024
A
Anonymous
Unregistered
Anonymous
Unregistered
A
Originally Posted by Anonymous
So here is the biggest problem that the WSYL faces - in order to be the most competitive tournament in the US you need to stay grade-based. I'm okay with holdback haters disagreeing with this, but here's the reality:

1. Some "holdbacks" were held back in school as a result of maturity and/or academics - this happens with MD, NY, PA and every other state in the country. This most likely happened in kindergarten or 1st grade. How do you stigmatize this example as a plot to improve your lacrosse team? You can't. It's not the kid's fault and, let's be honest, it was most likely a great move by parents who care for their kid.

2. Some true holdbacks take place in middle school years when a family makes a decision to place their son in PREP school. This happens on the island, in the MIAA, and in the Inter-Ac. Guess what? You can't do a thing about it except complain! Once that kid is held back, he's in that grade through high school. Talk about a double-holdback all you want, but at least in PA, you cannot play a varsity sport if you turn 19 before the school year begins, so it makes no sense to hold back a student twice. The main reason for this is because PREP schools do demand more from their students and acclimating to the demands constitutes the holdback. I get that sometimes it's athletic related, but you're talking about a special athlete in this case so spare me with it "happens all the time". I also know that PREP schools allow for a double-holdback but if this is your main argument about advantages, you're looking at a very small percentage of players.

3. PA players aren't drawing from the same geography as LI. LI has 7 million people on it. The best PA teams are located in an area of about 2 million people and I'm probably being too generous with that many. So what does that mean? It means that the LI teams will be better than the PA teams because they have a larger talent pool to choose from. Case in point: This years's BL team has been put together over a few years and is a combo team from a few different clubs. It was not homegrown talent. Also, the PA Big 5 team from last year (2023) was a combo team that included players from multiple clubs - it was a one-off team that doesn't exist anymore. The Big 5 team did well as an all-star club team but didn't reach the final with the best talent Philly had to offer.

4. The big name teams from PA, DE, MD, DC, and WV were not well represented in the East Qualifier. As a matter of fact, some of the teams that went, play in B level summer tournaments. What's the point of having a tournament where you can't get the best teams there? Wait, that's right, the NLF can claim that already. While I agree that this includes some holdback challenges, it also may have to include the fact that you have to shell out quite a few bucks to go to Denver, and pass up you're 4th of July for the year. Where are the HoCo studs (Hawks, Madlax, Looney's, FCA, Crabs, etc)? How about the PA Inter-Ac feeders (Mesa, HHH, Freedom, Duke's)? Don't be offended if I didn't list your son's team - I think you get the picture.

The East qualifier was a joke this year - the top two teams both pitched a shut out and both won games by double digits - that's not competitive. It's great for the families who have a kid on the team, but how do you tell your son, after he does well at the WSYL then comes home and gets beat at the NLF National Championships, if you are invited there, that your team isn't as good as they were in Denver? You tell them it's all about holdbacks right? Then does your kid gets a pass for losing the rest of his middle school and high school career? Because of holdbacks, hahahahahaha...

I get puberty plays a part in this, but puberty hits in a small window in/around 7th grade. Maybe a team or two get an advantage with puberty for a summer, but it will all even itself out in the long run. I bet some of you would go crazy if the WSYL drilled down their event even further to say: only age-based players who haven't hit puberty are allowed to play saying it's "not fair". Maybe if you're kid is a late-bloomer you'd support a puberty-free tourney? I don't know...

I was inclined to post this after seeing the East Qualifier scores - it was very disappointing to see the lack of talented teams and the lack of competitive games.

WSYL has to switch to grade-based to stay viable. Warrior already has their All-America games where it's grade based so I think the writing is on the wall.

Disclaimer - I have an on-age son playing for a top club team in SE Pennsylvania - he's not a 2024. When he goes up against bigger/faster/stronger I've taught him to find a way to be successful - he's a better player for it!
For the record, Long Island is considered Nassau and Suffolk county, the total population of both combined is under 3,000,000, not the 7 million you state, Holdbacks on L.I. is not a common occurrence because there are no Prep Schools on L.I. , the closest we have is Catholic Schools. Pennsylvania, on the other hand, does have the Classic prep school where holdbacks are a staple. Just to clarify your obviously uneducated post

Like Reply Quote
Re: Boys 2024
A
Anonymous
Unregistered
Anonymous
Unregistered
A
Easy bro! I made very realistic observations. I played college lax and understand the game as well as the club climate in Philly, MD and LI at multiple grade levels. You’ll have to reread what I posted and then read your response - you will see that you are proving my point - you are sweating “holdbacks”. My point on these holdbacks is that the majority of them (I’d estimate 80% or more) were held back early in their school years and that it’s nobody’s fault. You can’t get away from holdbacks once they reclass, so why not stink it up and play them? Oh and in case you missed it, this is a forum to discuss lax so I can post as much content as I’d like (but your rebuttal is quite long, is it not?).

You can try to pick apart my insights but you’ve already proved what I’ve said about, as you called them, “cheaters””. Remember, my son is on age and we don’t sweat these teams that carry all the “holdbacks” - most teams have a few, but what do I know since everyone is laughing at my comments hahahahaha. So what I am saying, and the other poster agreed already, the WSYL is not, in any way, a collection of the best players in the country because many “on age” players who play with holdbacks on teams that are solid don’t go to the WSYL. Look at the qualifiers - as I discussed with the other poster, there are weak teams trying to make it. I understand the idea of going to an experience with some good teams. There are various ways to go to this tournament so it’s not necessarily a club decision (I.e. Philly Big 5). Seriously, did you even read my post? Sorry if this ruined your day. By the way, to reiterat one more time, my kid is an on-age starter on a top-level team (posting again since it looks like you missed that),, we only worry about him having fun and getting better at a game he loves. Appreciate you responding in a mature and well thought out way though...

Like Reply Quote
Re: Boys 2024
A
Anonymous
Unregistered
Anonymous
Unregistered
A
Ok, original poster again... I'm dealing with two stunands so this will be my last post, but please feel free to educate me further since I don't have a clue. To the first stunad, I was making an argument for a GRADE-BASED WSYL so that they could truly get the best 7th graders playing in the same place at the same time. I was basically saying the complaining about holdbacks has to stop. I was taking a pro grade-based stance, an opinion. You threw mud. I love when my son goes up against older boys because HE likes the challenge.

To stunad two Long Island has a population of almost 8 million people now - you can find this information in multiple ways on the internet. I do my homework before I post. Please tell me you don't live on the island. Also - you are telling me that no one on the island holds back their kids in kindergarten or 1st grade due to academic, social, or development issues? If you think that the answer is no, then you are truly one of the dumbest people on the planet. I talked about different types of holdbacks. ALL teams have holdbacks. All of them. Some have more than others - my point is: who cares?

The two of you stunands chose to pick and choose arguments that make no sense. Thankfully, I was able to have a decent discussion with someone on this thread who made good counterpoints (to witch I agreed with to a certain extent).

Like Reply Quote
Re: Boys 2024
A
Anonymous
Unregistered
Anonymous
Unregistered
A
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Ok, original poster again... I'm dealing with two stunands so this will be my last post, but please feel free to educate me further since I don't have a clue. To the first stunad, I was making an argument for a GRADE-BASED WSYL so that they could truly get the best 7th graders playing in the same place at the same time. I was basically saying the complaining about holdbacks has to stop. I was taking a pro grade-based stance, an opinion. You threw mud. I love when my son goes up against older boys because HE likes the challenge.

To stunad two Long Island has a population of almost 8 million people now - you can find this information in multiple ways on the internet. I do my homework before I post. Please tell me you don't live on the island. Also - you are telling me that no one on the island holds back their kids in kindergarten or 1st grade due to academic, social, or development issues? If you think that the answer is no, then you are truly one of the dumbest people on the planet. I talked about different types of holdbacks. ALL teams have holdbacks. All of them. Some have more than others - my point is: who cares?

The two of you stunands chose to pick and choose arguments that make no sense. Thankfully, I was able to have a decent discussion with someone on this thread who made good counterpoints (to witch I agreed with to a certain extent).


You have so many inaccuracies, it’s hard to decide upon which one needs correcting the most. Ok. For starters, let’s go with your excuse for why LI teams are so much better than your sons lame team, and it has nothing to do with 8 million people. Since this all started in 2nd grade, there have been two dominant LI teams in 2024 lacrosse. Taz and WP. They both are based in Suffolk County, which is by far the least densely populated county on LI. The home base for both clubs are approximately 4 to 5 miles from each other. 90% of the players on both teams live within approximately an 8 mile radius of where they practice. So the two best teams draw from the exact, very small area, and NOT a pool of 8 million people as you would like to suggest. You’re going to have to come up with a new excuse as to why your area of the country is so weak, because the 8 million people excuse doesn’t fly. LI is synonymous with the best lacrosse anywhere. I know it. You know it. Everyone knows it. It’s always been that way. And always will be that way. That’s the only excuse you need. I’ll devalue the rest of your uninformed comments tomorrow.

Like Reply Quote
Re: Boys 2024
A
Anonymous
Unregistered
Anonymous
Unregistered
A

Originally Posted by Anonymous
Ok, original poster again... I'm dealing with two stunands so this will be my last post, but please feel free to educate me further since I don't have a clue. To the first stunad, I was making an argument for a GRADE-BASED WSYL so that they could truly get the best 7th graders playing in the same place at the same time. I was basically saying the complaining about holdbacks has to stop. I was taking a pro grade-based stance, an opinion. You threw mud. I love when my son goes up against older boys because HE likes the challenge.

To stunad two Long Island has a population of almost 8 million people now - you can find this information in multiple ways on the internet. I do my homework before I post. Please tell me you don't live on the island. Also - you are telling me that no one on the island holds back their kids in kindergarten or 1st grade due to academic, social, or development issues? If you think that the answer is no, then you are truly one of the dumbest people on the planet. I talked about different types of holdbacks. ALL teams have holdbacks. All of them. Some have more than others - my point is: who cares?

The two of you stunands chose to pick and choose arguments that make no sense. Thankfully, I was able to have a decent discussion with someone on this thread who made good counterpoints (to witch I agreed with to a certain extent).


Yo. Stop with the verbal vomit. Blah blah blah. Answer the guys question. What top 13u team will be missing from the qualifiers? Simple question.

I am as well versed as probably anyone on the 2024 teams, so I’m going to give you a very discrete little hint. NONE.

This is not about whether you mind your kid playing against holdbacks or not. Personally I think it’s a positive having good players play up, if they are capable. Playing down is a whole different conversation but we’ll hold that for another time.

Plain and simple, almost every top team is over 50% holdbacks, and most are more like 80% holdbacks, or even more. Simply, these teams don’t have the numbers to field a 13u team without their holdbacks.

Are you following? Not about what I think of holdback teams. It’s about 13u players.

DMV HoCo elite division teams have almost no 13u players. No 13u players means no WSYL for you.

So. Back to the same question. You claim that not all top tier 13u teams will be at the qualifiers. What teams will be missing???

Like Reply Quote
Re: Boys 2024
A
Anonymous
Unregistered
Anonymous
Unregistered
A
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Ok, original poster again... I'm dealing with two stunands so this will be my last post, but please feel free to educate me further since I don't have a clue. To the first stunad, I was making an argument for a GRADE-BASED WSYL so that they could truly get the best 7th graders playing in the same place at the same time. I was basically saying the complaining about holdbacks has to stop. I was taking a pro grade-based stance, an opinion. You threw mud. I love when my son goes up against older boys because HE likes the challenge.

To stunad two Long Island has a population of almost 8 million people now - you can find this information in multiple ways on the internet. I do my homework before I post. Please tell me you don't live on the island. Also - you are telling me that no one on the island holds back their kids in kindergarten or 1st grade due to academic, social, or development issues? If you think that the answer is no, then you are truly one of the dumbest people on the planet. I talked about different types of holdbacks. ALL teams have holdbacks. All of them. Some have more than others - my point is: who cares?

The two of you stunands chose to pick and choose arguments that make no sense. Thankfully, I was able to have a decent discussion with someone on this thread who made good counterpoints (to witch I agreed with to a certain extent).


I'm the poster you had the decent discussion with. I am sure LI has hold backs, but it's probably a lot less than PA because NY has a year-end cut off date for Kindergarten so you don't have all these summer birthday's starting K later.

Also, important to remember, the first year of the WSYL, it was a 4/1 cutoff and then it got moved to 9/1. That changed things drastically for clubs in PA that could no longer bring kids with the summer birthdays. You can always add 4-5 players to fill in, but that stinks for the 4-5 summer birthdays who now don't get to share the experience with their teammates....Big 5 was a great example of clubs putting kids first and allowing them to play together for the opportunity. Lack of practice time together proved to be a difference maker against a real team like Team 91. BL looks like they were able to remove that issue, so have high hopes for them out in Denver.

Like Reply Quote
Re: Boys 2024
A
Anonymous
Unregistered
Anonymous
Unregistered
A
Not once did I downplay the fact that LI has strong lax teams - and I’m not fixated on just 24’s. Truth be told, Taz is strongest Legacy team. 91 Wolfpack has been strong from the jump at ‘24 and other age groups and ‘24 Express is not as strong but Express usually fields tremendously good talent. I’m not bashing LI (never did) - it’s a lacrosse hotbed. However, there’s a PA kid facing off now for one of the 3 teams I mentioned at the ‘24 level for WSYL, but let’s not get into that since you can’t even understand that my original post didn’t talk explicitly about one club area but you made it about LI. Since you nailed the population of LI, you probably know the kid and team I’m talking about. Guarantee on your next post you won’t address this fact. Not one excuse about my son’s team, but know this, he’s played 91 and Express at his age group and both teams would love to add him as he’s more than held his own when he plays them... haven’t played Legacy yet. Oh and let’s nit forget that the top teams in LI draw hundreds of players to their tryouts - not on club in Philly can get that many kids out to tryouts because there are more players to choose from in LI. Make sense? Guessing no... you win points for getting me to respond again after I said I wouldn’t - nicely done

Like Reply Quote
Re: Boys 2024
A
Anonymous
Unregistered
Anonymous
Unregistered
A
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Ok, original poster again... I'm dealing with two stunands so this will be my last post, but please feel free to educate me further since I don't have a clue. To the first stunad, I was making an argument for a GRADE-BASED WSYL so that they could truly get the best 7th graders playing in the same place at the same time. I was basically saying the complaining about holdbacks has to stop. I was taking a pro grade-based stance, an opinion. You threw mud. I love when my son goes up against older boys because HE likes the challenge.

To stunad two Long Island has a population of almost 8 million people now - you can find this information in multiple ways on the internet. I do my homework before I post. Please tell me you don't live on the island. Also - you are telling me that no one on the island holds back their kids in kindergarten or 1st grade due to academic, social, or development issues? If you think that the answer is no, then you are truly one of the dumbest people on the planet. I talked about different types of holdbacks. ALL teams have holdbacks. All of them. Some have more than others - my point is: who cares?

The two of you stunands chose to pick and choose arguments that make no sense. Thankfully, I was able to have a decent discussion with someone on this thread who made good counterpoints (to witch I agreed with to a certain extent).


You have so many inaccuracies, it’s hard to decide upon which one needs correcting the most. Ok. For starters, let’s go with your excuse for why LI teams are so much better than your sons lame team, and it has nothing to do with 8 million people. Since this all started in 2nd grade, there have been two dominant LI teams in 2024 lacrosse. Taz and WP. They both are based in Suffolk County, which is by far the least densely populated county on LI. The home base for both clubs are approximately 4 to 5 miles from each other. 90% of the players on both teams live within approximately an 8 mile radius of where they practice. So the two best teams draw from the exact, very small area, and NOT a pool of 8 million people as you would like to suggest. You’re going to have to come up with a new excuse as to why your area of the country is so weak, because the 8 million people excuse doesn’t fly. LI is synonymous with the best lacrosse anywhere. I know it. You know it. Everyone knows it. It’s always been that way. And always will be that way. That’s the only excuse you need. I’ll devalue the rest of your uninformed comments tomorrow.


My theory why is that in PA, a lot of our best athletes still don't play Lacrosse (or at least don't start young), while on LI they do. I also don't see our clubs practice as much as the LI teams (probably various reasons for this).

Like Reply Quote
Re: Boys 2024
A
Anonymous
Unregistered
Anonymous
Unregistered
A
Why does the WSYL need to be in Denver? Wouldn’t it make more sense to move this to Long Island, Philadelphia, or Baltimore? You know where the game is established and would draw more top teams.
The need to grow the game sometimes seems like a need for more money. Stay on east coast...build the product up so when it does spread it’s a well oiled machine.

Like Reply Quote
Page 5 of 9 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9
Quick Reply

Options
HTML is disabled
UBBCode is enabled
CAPTCHA Verification



Link Copied to Clipboard












Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.4