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Re: Boys 2024-7th Grade Fall 2018/Summer 2019
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Who says they have to go to traditional high schools. They could graduate early in the summer or they could go to a Prep academy like Culver or they could skip senior year sports if they have committed. These are real examples and are not made up. There are really young men turning 16 in their 8th grade year and will be playing in HoCo this year. Why is this so hard to believe. The Gonzage QB was 15 as a freshman and he turned 16 in November. Is it really so hard to believe there aren't a few young men 3-6 months older?

There's nothing in the water where giants grow for certain clubs and not for others.

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Re: Boys 2024-7th Grade Fall 2018/Summer 2019
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Original "math" poster here again. I really appreciate the reasoned responses to this. While I completely agree that at the 2024 level 9-12 months can be an advantage it is also within the bounds of what can happen within an age bracket. Having sons who play hockey as well (with horrible hockey birthdays but great lacrosse birthdays in an age based world) I understand. We are all aware that within a 12 month bracket at this age there can be huge differences in size and athleticism that no system can even up.

It seemed to me the conversation was beginning to go a little out of bounds with the whole 15 vs 12 arguments. Does that happen, to be honest I am not aware of any 15 yos playing in 2024 but I don't know this as a "fact" either way, but on average for the MD teams this is not the case. It was not that long ago that these kids were all playing age based and there were some really great games between the LI & MD teams. I will also readily admit that part of the purpose for my post was a defensive response to the concept that the MD 2024s were all a bunch of 15 yos with no lacrosse skills that were just winning because they were so much older. On average I don't believe that is the case.

Also agree on the market size and culture comment about LI vs MD.


Every team in the elite division is stacked with kids born prior to 9/1 and most with a few kids born in the prior year. There has to be a cap somewhere. None of these teams are school based so I don't get the clinging to the idea of the class designation.

Re: Boys 2024-7th Grade Fall 2018/Summer 2019
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I know some late summer 2005 kids that are some of the better athletes in the 2024 elite division. I also know some late summer 2005 kids that frankly aren't that good. I think it is unfair to say that a late summer 2005 kid is better just because he may be slightly older. Most of the summer 2005 kids that I know didn't start playing club lacrosse until around the third grade. I happen to have a kid that has a late summer birthday (he missed the 9/1 cutoff by a couple of weeks). When he started playing lacrosse, he only played rec and he was the youngest kid on the field. He was constantly playing kids that were 1-2 years older than he was. When he got run over by older kids, it just made him tougher and practice that much harder. Even when he started playing club, it was still age based. So again he was playing kids that were 1-2 years older. But now they weren't just older, they were skilled too. Have you ever considered that some of the late summer 2005 kids that play 2024 are not better just because they may be older? Maybe they are better because of all those years they spent playing older kids before they eventually ended up on a grade based team? As I have posted before, if Long Island kids are having to play kids that are older than they are, they will get the last laugh come high school when everything levels out. So rather than hating the "holdbacks," just enjoy the ride and be thankful that your kid is getting better from having to play older kids! Team rankings should mean nothing at this age. It should be about having fun and getting better before high school.

Re: Boys 2024-7th Grade Fall 2018/Summer 2019
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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Who says they have to go to traditional high schools. They could graduate early in the summer or they could go to a Prep academy like Culver or they could skip senior year sports if they have committed. These are real examples and are not made up. There are really young men turning 16 in their 8th grade year and will be playing in HoCo this year. Why is this so hard to believe. The Gonzage QB was 15 as a freshman and he turned 16 in November. Is it really so hard to believe there aren't a few young men 3-6 months older?

There's nothing in the water where giants grow for certain clubs and not for others.

No Baltimore kids in MIAA Conference are forgoing senior to go to Culver or
A prep academy. Maybe LI or DC.

Re: Boys 2024-7th Grade Fall 2018/Summer 2019
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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Madlax is in your heads. Nobody cares about holdbacks except LI crybaby dads.

Madlax owns the island.


Based on the immaturity of the message, I am assuming that you are just a kid, however, if you are in fact a parent, get over yourself. While I hope that it never happens to anybody, imagine how you would feel if some double-holdback steamrolled your kid and caused a horrific injury, would that change your attitude. I realize that the same injury could occur by being hit by an on-age, or smaller, kid as well, but my guess would be that you would not rationalize it that way. For what it's worth, I am not from LI, despite what you may think, people from all over the lacrosse community think that the MD system is ridiculous.

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Re: Boys 2024-7th Grade Fall 2018/Summer 2019
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[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous]

Quick question on "the facts". Honestly I am not trying to be difficult here but we have a lot of 15yo vs 12yo which seems pretty disingenuous to me. The cutoff date for age based is 9/1/2005. This means on average by the beginning of March the average age of 2024 kids is 13, not 12. Of course if your team has more summer 2006 birthdays the average will be 12+, but in that case even an "on age" team could be 6-9 months older if it had more fall birthdays. Most of the MD "holdbacks" I have encountered have summer 2005 birthdays, the reasons for this have been talked about a fair amount (private vs. public focus, etc.). So let's assume every kid on a team was born in June 2005 (which is a stretch as I know for a "fact" that the teams talked about here have "on age" players because it wasn't that long ago MD was age based as well) then by March, on average, the difference would be 9 months as opposed to the "cited facts" of 1 to 2 years. Of course talking in averages does not take into account individuals which can vary but since none of the LI or MD clubs post birth dates or birth certificates no one here really knows exact age or birthday. We can make some assumptions pre/post 9/1.

To your questions about how good MD teams are and why they are not "as good as they should be" since they are 1/2 years older is perhaps because they are actually closer in age than you make it out to be. I am not saying a 9 month age difference (which I think is a high end estimate) is not an advantage but it is a whole lot different than saying a 1 to 2 year difference and it is an age gap that can occur even in age based systems.

Let me know if I am doing the math wrong here.

I am a MD parent of an on age 2024 who believes that age based is the way to go in youth (pre high school) sports.


The first issue is if you stack a team full of summer birthdays or even earlier and have them play a diverse team of different ages. This is the first issue with the HoCo elite divisions. The better teams are completely stacked with this type of roster. There's a reason why they are "better" and it's not due to coaching.

If you are a 2024 parent who pays attention and your club is competitive, here's a better breakdown. There are approximately 21 players on a team, some more and some less but this is about right. At least a third of those kids will be older than the 9/1 guideline; about 10 will be born between September and December; and there might be 4-5 kids born after January. In the elite division, the numbers will skew even older.

The problem lies in those 7 and more like 14 for the elite division teams where their ages vary from a couple of months before up to 18 months before. Yes - 18 months before the 9/1 guideline.

Here's how it happens. You take a delayed entry child who is born in March (and I believe this is too old to play in class divisions) and then that kid re-classes. Now you have a 15 year old playing 7th grade lacrosse. I don't know about 7th grade HoCo but I know most 8th grade teams in the elite division have at least 1 and 1 team has 3. Yes - 3 young men who are 16 years old playing in an 8th grade division.

The age difference in teams for a class based league is way out of balance.



No way this scenario is accurate. They would be ineligible for senior year of high school.
Stop clinging to these weak Meanyexcuses.


Totally inaccurate statement. It all depends on when the double holdbacks Birthday is. Do the math. It’s very do-able and I’ve seen it several times. One comes immediately to mind... the 2023 DC Dogs boy that is now playing 2024?? An obvious reclass this year. Based on size, is it logical to think this boy is a kindergarten holdback too? PA has some obvious ones too. It’s not often you see 6’1” 175 lb 7th graders. I’ve never met one. But I’ve seen several playing in 2024 lacrosse. Hmmm.

Re: Boys 2024-7th Grade Fall 2018/Summer 2019
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Originally Posted by Anonymous
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"The ones that are getting hurt by this are the area's where it is running rampant, like MD. The holdbacks are taking all of the positions and opportunities, from the kids that are suppose to be getting them."

And there it is. The plague is taking opportunities from kids who deserve them. The system is rewarding the plague. Your issue is with the NCAA and the league and then the parents. I am agreeing with you. The NCAA doesn't care about holdbacks because they like them. Look at Navy because they are the worst. They recruit holdbacks and then ask them to do another year at Prep. They are getting 21 year old freshman and they love it for a number of reasons. They are older, more mature and are easier to get through the process because they have higher test scores.

LI is holding out but it is creeping in.

All very valid points, but sadly, no solution in sight...our kids will be probably be out of college before things finally change


You know what is the funniest part of all this? The two top LI teams have no holdbacks. Yet, they are some of the top teams at this grade, and one of them is quite possibly the best anywhere. That will likely be determined this summer. So on age teams are as good or better than teams a year of two older, which has been going on since grade two. Think about that. If that's the case, why are all of the clubs chasing after holdbacks?

You really need to get over your team being the best. To take your point one step further your 2023 Team is better and has accomplished more yet the pendulum has shifted away from them and they aren't even in HS yet. They got spanked by a Team of Holdback I think it was 6-0 so it goes to show you that holdbacks do make a difference. Get off your high horse about great your team is I was at the Millon 2024 team and I thought your team was one of the better teams but certainly not the best and I think the tournament results support that.

Ahhh. The holdback dad rears his ugly head. Where you been hiding? Once again, you are completely missing the point. What's new. I know you are desperately trying to support your argument, to keep having 15 year old's, like your son, play little 12 year olds, but your spin doesn't work here. First, this is a 2024 thread, so that's what we are discussing, not 2023, 2022... you get the idea. Only 2024. Let's stay focused, shall we. Second, we are citing facts, not speculation of what a holdback dad wants to happen in the future. The facts are what they are. On-age LI teams have been competing and winning against the best teams from MD, that are between one and two years older. No speculation, plain facts. This has been going on for over 5 years now. So far, there is nothing debatable here. Every year is a compete do-over, so we'll wait and see what happens this year. No chest pounding like our friend from Madlax. Simply stating the fact that non-holdback teams are competing and beating the best holdback teams and have for over 5 years, running. AND HERE IS THE POINT... if LI teams can do it, then MD could do it too... win without holdbacks. Here's another interesting question. Why aren't the MD teams better than what they are? Older kids should beat younger, smaller kids, by a lot. But it hasn't happened. Why? My theory is that the holdback players are simply not as good as the non-holdback players, no matter where they are from. In general, they are substandard players that aren't successful against their own age players, so they need the advantage of playing against younger, smaller players. Now, there are always exceptions to every rule, but the overall statement I think is accurate. Clubs chose holdbacks over on-age kids, simply because of their size and strength advantage, and the clubs "win now" mentality. They are not better athletes and they certainly don't have the potential of the average on-age player. If you have your own theory (spin) as to why the holdback teams aren't nearly as good as they should be, I'd love to hear it.

Quick question on "the facts". Honestly I am not trying to be difficult here but we have a lot of 15yo vs 12yo which seems pretty disingenuous to me. The cutoff date for age based is 9/1/2005. This means on average by the beginning of March the average age of 2024 kids is 13, not 12. Of course if your team has more summer 2006 birthdays the average will be 12+, but in that case even an "on age" team could be 6-9 months older if it had more fall birthdays. Most of the MD "holdbacks" I have encountered have summer 2005 birthdays, the reasons for this have been talked about a fair amount (private vs. public focus, etc.). So let's assume every kid on a team was born in June 2005 (which is a stretch as I know for a "fact" that the teams talked about here have "on age" players because it wasn't that long ago MD was age based as well) then by March, on average, the difference would be 9 months as opposed to the "cited facts" of 1 to 2 years. Of course talking in averages does not take into account individuals which can vary but since none of the LI or MD clubs post birth dates or birth certificates no one here really knows exact age or birthday. We can make some assumptions pre/post 9/1.

To your questions about how good MD teams are and why they are not "as good as they should be" since they are 1/2 years older is perhaps because they are actually closer in age than you make it out to be. I am not saying a 9 month age difference (which I think is a high end estimate) is not an advantage but it is a whole lot different than saying a 1 to 2 year difference and it is an age gap that can occur even in age based systems.
Let me know if I am doing the math wrong here.

I am a MD parent of an on age 2024 who believes that age based is the way to go in youth (pre high school) sports.


While you might sound reasonable, holdbacks are much older in relation to other youth teams.. Take your June holdback player. He is ALWAYS one of oldest players on field in the holdback era. He is older by 3 months to oldest on age player ( which, how many are born on Sept 1 ? ) . Yet on average , the holdback will always be older by 6-9 months at minimum to the majority of players. Now that is ALL the time. In youth sports we are talking about boys usually pre puberty or in the beginnings of most growth periods . Older is usually an advantage. Or at least makes up for your shortcomings. There is a Reason 3rd graders think 4th graders are sooo much older. LOL. The whole holdback/reclass/prefirst thing is wrong in Youth sports. Common sense.

As far competition between LI and MD . Many factors, but a big one is that LI has a pop of 7.5 million with a strong lacrosse culture. MD has 7 million in entire state with Balt and certain areas of DC with strong lax culture. Years ago LI had a much bigger USL participation than MD, not sure what numbers are now.



Gotta disagree with your logic... which is... LI has a much larger population, so that's their advantage... a larger pool of kids to choose from. Makes perfect sense, in theory, but in reality, it doesn't apply. The two top teams are from Suffolk County, not Nassau County (which is closer to the city, and far more densely populated). Suffolk is much more rural. Regardless, these two teams pull from the exact same area, which is about a 10 mile radius. This year, there is an exception or two to that rule, but I'd say 85% of the kids are still within that 10 mile radius. Therefore, I am willing to bet the pool of kids that these boys come from is far less populated than the pool that most MD teams draw from. Not trying to stir the pot, but I really don't see that as being any benefit at all for LI.

What you are saying about the culture is most definitely true. It's lacrosse first, for sure, but all the boys play several other sports as well. I would imagine that MD is equal in that regard. So again, I don't see culture as being an advantage over MD's culture. Maybe I'm wrong, but you guys seem really serious about your lacrosse, just like we are.

Then why? I still say it's due to the clubs infatuation with holdbacks, thinking they are the pot of gold at the end of their money rainbow. "Win now" with bigger kids, with much bigger advantages. Horde these players and win big and grow the business and make $$'s.

I've seen this close up, so I know it happens... the normal sized, very good, on age player is replaced by a far bigger holdback, with skills that are inferior to the on-age player. There is absolutely no comparison, skill-wise and IQ-wise, but some teams go with the bigger holdbacks.

***I have to think that anybody reading this has seen the same thing repeat itself over and over, correct??

Not saying that a strategically placed, highly skilled holdback ("skilled" being the operative word) isn't a very nice piece to have for a team. Obviously it can be and usually is. Nobody will every argue that. But when taken to the extreme, and teams replace on age skill kids, with holdbacks just because they are holdbacks and bigger, is not necessarily the recipe for success like some teams think it is. It really isn't.

I've seen teams of Liliputians win big games against very big players... games that they have no business winning, but they do. I've seen it time and time again where "skill (small) beats size and strength."

Having said that, I'd like to hear other arguments/theories on the topic. Maybe I'm wrong, but for now, I don't think there is a better theory out there.

Re: Boys 2024-7th Grade Fall 2018/Summer 2019
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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Madlax is in your heads. Nobody cares about holdbacks except LI crybaby dads.

Madlax owns the island.


Based on the immaturity of the message, I am assuming that you are just a kid, however, if you are in fact a parent, get over yourself. While I hope that it never happens to anybody, imagine how you would feel if some double-holdback steamrolled your kid and caused a horrific injury, would that change your attitude. I realize that the same injury could occur by being hit by an on-age, or smaller, kid as well, but my guess would be that you would not rationalize it that way. For what it's worth, I am not from LI, despite what you may think, people from all over the lacrosse community think that the MD system is ridiculous.


Great comment. Have you ever seen one of these really big kids target some of the smallest kids on the field? Of course you have. It happens a lot. When it eventually results in a tragedy, and it will, this "class based" system will be changed very quickly. Very irresponsible though, thinking that we are all sitting here waiting for that to happen, before changes are made.

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
I know some late summer 2005 kids that are some of the better athletes in the 2024 elite division. I also know some late summer 2005 kids that frankly aren't that good. I think it is unfair to say that a late summer 2005 kid is better just because he may be slightly older. Most of the summer 2005 kids that I know didn't start playing club lacrosse until around the third grade. I happen to have a kid that has a late summer birthday (he missed the 9/1 cutoff by a couple of weeks). When he started playing lacrosse, he only played rec and he was the youngest kid on the field. He was constantly playing kids that were 1-2 years older than he was. When he got run over by older kids, it just made him tougher and practice that much harder. Even when he started playing club, it was still age based. So again he was playing kids that were 1-2 years older. But now they weren't just older, they were skilled too. Have you ever considered that some of the late summer 2005 kids that play 2024 are not better just because they may be older? Maybe they are better because of all those years they spent playing older kids before they eventually ended up on a grade based team? As I have posted before, if Long Island kids are having to play kids that are older than they are, they will get the last laugh come high school when everything levels out. So rather than hating the "holdbacks," just enjoy the ride and be thankful that your kid is getting better from having to play older kids! Team rankings should mean nothing at this age. It should be about having fun and getting better before high school.



Just for the record, no one is hating holdbacks. The really annoying Madlax parent, who posts like a kid, but I'm sure is an adult... him, we hate.

That guys has been on the LI thread for several years with the same juvenile posts that he has just started putting on here... "we are Madlax, we are the best, blah, blah, blah"... really annoying stuff, every single day... for y-e-a-r-s. It's particularly annoying when Madlax is SECRETLY a year older than our kids, and still intensifies the trash talk (and mostly losing), as though their kids are all on age. Apparently the child-like adult doesn't like playing second fiddle to the younger LI teams.

So when you hear the hate form LI, it's towards that one guy. The rest of you folks, we like, a lot. I've never seen any posts from any MD parent that resemble the Madlax parents posts. You people are class acts, all the way around.

The holdback problem is really not a big deal for us, since there really aren't many on LI. If we go to MD and lose, no biggie... our boys are playing up. You MD folks are the ones that are getting hurt by it, not us. My only purpose is to let you know that this holdback issue is so out of control (you already know that) and in the end, it is probably hurting your region more than you know. I've got several kids, of a wide range of ages, so I've been doing this a very long time. And, as a former player, like many of you, with a real passion for the game, I care deeply for the sport and it's continued growth. Holdbacks are absolutely not in the best interest of the sport. Club's think it is in their best "business interest", but they are taking a very short term view of their strategy, and not anticipating the long term consequences, of which there are many. Sounds like another topic??

Re: Boys 2024-7th Grade Fall 2018/Summer 2019
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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Who says they have to go to traditional high schools. They could graduate early in the summer or they could go to a Prep academy like Culver or they could skip senior year sports if they have committed. These are real examples and are not made up. There are really young men turning 16 in their 8th grade year and will be playing in HoCo this year. Why is this so hard to believe. The Gonzage QB was 15 as a freshman and he turned 16 in November. Is it really so hard to believe there aren't a few young men 3-6 months older?

There's nothing in the water where giants grow for certain clubs and not for others.

No Baltimore kids in MIAA Conference are forgoing senior to go to Culver or
A prep academy. Maybe LI or DC.


agree...too old to get in.

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Re: Boys 2024-7th Grade Fall 2018/Summer 2019
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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous]

Quick question on "the facts". Honestly I am not trying to be difficult here but we have a lot of 15yo vs 12yo which seems pretty disingenuous to me. The cutoff date for age based is 9/1/2005. This means on average by the beginning of March the average age of 2024 kids is 13, not 12. Of course if your team has more summer 2006 birthdays the average will be 12+, but in that case even an "on age" team could be 6-9 months older if it had more fall birthdays. Most of the MD "holdbacks" I have encountered have summer 2005 birthdays, the reasons for this have been talked about a fair amount (private vs. public focus, etc.). So let's assume every kid on a team was born in June 2005 (which is a stretch as I know for a "fact" that the teams talked about here have "on age" players because it wasn't that long ago MD was age based as well) then by March, on average, the difference would be 9 months as opposed to the "cited facts" of 1 to 2 years. Of course talking in averages does not take into account individuals which can vary but since none of the LI or MD clubs post birth dates or birth certificates no one here really knows exact age or birthday. We can make some assumptions pre/post 9/1.

To your questions about how good MD teams are and why they are not "as good as they should be" since they are 1/2 years older is perhaps because they are actually closer in age than you make it out to be. I am not saying a 9 month age difference (which I think is a high end estimate) is not an advantage but it is a whole lot different than saying a 1 to 2 year difference and it is an age gap that can occur even in age based systems.

Let me know if I am doing the math wrong here.

I am a MD parent of an on age 2024 who believes that age based is the way to go in youth (pre high school) sports.


The first issue is if you stack a team full of summer birthdays or even earlier and have them play a diverse team of different ages. This is the first issue with the HoCo elite divisions. The better teams are completely stacked with this type of roster. There's a reason why they are "better" and it's not due to coaching.


If you are a 2024 parent who pays attention and your club is competitive, here's a better breakdown. There are approximately 21 players on a team, some more and some less but this is about right. At least a third of those kids will be older than the 9/1 guideline; about 10 will be born between September and December; and there might be 4-5 kids born after January. In the elite division, the numbers will skew even older.


The problem lies in those 7 and more like 14 for the elite division teams where their ages vary from a couple of months before up to 18 months before. Yes - 18 months before the 9/1 guideline.

Here's how it happens. You take a delayed entry child who is born in March (and I believe this is too old to play in class divisions) and then that kid re-classes. Now you have a 15 year old playing 7th grade lacrosse. I don't know about 7th grade HoCo but I know most 8th grade teams in the elite division have at least 1 and 1 team has 3. Yes - 3 young men who are 16 years old playing in an 8th grade division.

The age difference in teams for a class based league is way out of balance.




On Long Island, birthdays after 9/1 and before 12/31 are considered holdbacks, since they could/should be playing in the grade above, although that is a call that each parent must make at time of Kindergarten. Not sure if MD considers them holdbacks, but by definition, they are. The parents chooses (they have the option) to "hold them back".

Based on that and your comments above, the average MD "competitive" team is 70% holdbacks ("4 to 5 on age players"), and teams in "elite divisions, the numbers will skew even older."

So the MD teams that the LI teams play, have 2 - 3 on age players, who in all likelihood never see the field, against LI teams. Therefore, MD teams (that play LI teams) are 100% holdback teams. Said another way, they are 2023-age teams, playing down against 2024 LI on-age teams.

Thank you for confirming... that's exactly what I have known all along. There are no 2024-age players playing in the 2024 grade, in MD lacrosse. That's crazy-town. It makes absolutely no sense. It's amazing what profit and greed can do to a kids game. I wish you MD non-holdback parents, the best. You and your kids don't deserve this, and this is not what's best for the sport. Good luck.

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Quick question on "the facts". Honestly I am not trying to be difficult here but we have a lot of 15yo vs 12yo which seems pretty disingenuous to me. The cutoff date for age based is 9/1/2005. This means on average by the beginning of March the average age of 2024 kids is 13, not 12. Of course if your team has more summer 2006 birthdays the average will be 12+, but in that case even an "on age" team could be 6-9 months older if it had more fall birthdays. Most of the MD "holdbacks" I have encountered have summer 2005 birthdays, the reasons for this have been talked about a fair amount (private vs. public focus, etc.). So let's assume every kid on a team was born in June 2005 (which is a stretch as I know for a "fact" that the teams talked about here have "on age" players because it wasn't that long ago MD was age based as well) then by March, on average, the difference would be 9 months as opposed to the "cited facts" of 1 to 2 years. Of course talking in averages does not take into account individuals which can vary but since none of the LI or MD clubs post birth dates or birth certificates no one here really knows exact age or birthday. We can make some assumptions pre/post 9/1.

To your questions about how good MD teams are and why they are not "as good as they should be" since they are 1/2 years older is perhaps because they are actually closer in age than you make it out to be. I am not saying a 9 month age difference (which I think is a high end estimate) is not an advantage but it is a whole lot different than saying a 1 to 2 year difference and it is an age gap that can occur even in age based systems.

Let me know if I am doing the math wrong here.

I am a MD parent of an on age 2024 who believes that age based is the way to go in youth (pre high school) sports.


The first issue is if you stack a team full of summer birthdays or even earlier and have them play a diverse team of different ages. This is the first issue with the HoCo elite divisions. The better teams are completely stacked with this type of roster. There's a reason why they are "better" and it's not due to coaching.


If you are a 2024 parent who pays attention and your club is competitive, here's a better breakdown. There are approximately 21 players on a team, some more and some less but this is about right. At least a third of those kids will be older than the 9/1 guideline; about 10 will be born between September and December; and there might be 4-5 kids born after January. In the elite division, the numbers will skew even older.


The problem lies in those 7 and more like 14 for the elite division teams where their ages vary from a couple of months before up to 18 months before. Yes - 18 months before the 9/1 guideline.

Here's how it happens. You take a delayed entry child who is born in March (and I believe this is too old to play in class divisions) and then that kid re-classes. Now you have a 15 year old playing 7th grade lacrosse. I don't know about 7th grade HoCo but I know most 8th grade teams in the elite division have at least 1 and 1 team has 3. Yes - 3 young men who are 16 years old playing in an 8th grade division.

The age difference in teams for a class based league is way out of balance.




On Long Island, birthdays after 9/1 and before 12/31 are considered holdbacks, since they could/should be playing in the grade above, although that is a call that each parent must make at time of Kindergarten. Not sure if MD considers them holdbacks, but by definition, they are. The parents chooses (they have the option) to "hold them back".

Based on that and your comments above, the average MD "competitive" team is 70% holdbacks ("4 to 5 on age players"), and teams in "elite divisions, the numbers will skew even older."

So the MD teams that the LI teams play, have 2 - 3 on age players, who in all likelihood never see the field, against LI teams. Therefore, MD teams (that play LI teams) are 100% holdback teams. Said another way, they are 2023-age teams, playing down against 2024 LI on-age teams.

Thank you for confirming... that's exactly what I have known all along. There are no 2024-age players playing in the 2024 grade, in MD lacrosse. That's crazy-town. It makes absolutely no sense. It's amazing what profit and greed can do to a kids game. I wish you MD non-holdback parents, the best. You and your kids don't deserve this, and this is not what's best for the sport. Good luck.










The leagues in MD are set up based on grade, end of story. I suppose it's the club owners directing the HoCo league officials. Regardless, if you are in 7th grade you play 2024, and there are tons of kids in the 7th grade with birthdays between 9/1 and 12/31, and yes kids with birthdays of 1/1 to 8/31. Unless they change it, that's the way it works in MD. Stay on the island if you dont like it, or write your congressional representatives. Believe it or not, the double hold back is extremely rare and really doesn't happen until kids start their 9th grade year. An extremely small number of kids (1, maybe 2 in the grade year), likely the smaller ones, choose to switch private schools and repeat 8th grade. Your imaginations have you believing its systemic. It isn't, as kids don't want the spotlight from it.

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On Long Island, birthdays after 9/1 and before 12/31 are considered holdbacks, since they could/should be playing in the grade above, although that is a call that each parent must make at time of Kindergarten. Not sure if MD considers them holdbacks, but by definition, they are. The parents chooses (they have the option) to "hold them back".

Based on that and your comments above, the average MD "competitive" team is 70% holdbacks ("4 to 5 on age players"), and teams in "elite divisions, the numbers will skew even older."

So the MD teams that the LI teams play, have 2 - 3 on age players, who in all likelihood never see the field, against LI teams. Therefore, MD teams (that play LI teams) are 100% holdback teams. Said another way, they are 2023-age teams, playing down against 2024 LI on-age teams.

Thank you for confirming... that's exactly what I have known all along. There are no 2024-age players playing in the 2024 grade, in MD lacrosse. That's crazy-town. It makes absolutely no sense. It's amazing what profit and greed can do to a kids game. I wish you MD non-holdback parents, the best. You and your kids don't deserve this, and this is not what's best for the sport. Good luck.

I'm afraid only 5 states start their birth date standards after 10/1 and in 4 of those 5 states it is up to the local agency. So to say a kid is holdback when they are born after 9/1 just doesn't hold up in 45 out of 50 states and even in those 5 states there are localities with start dates before 1/1.

NY and those other 4 states currently have legislation pending to move the date to 9/1. As for the kids not deserving it, you'll have to go on every forum with the same losing argument. You'll also need to go to every NCAA school currently loaded with kids from other states besides NY and tell them they stink too.

https://nces.ed.gov/programs/statereform/tab5_3.asp


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I know some late summer 2005 kids that are some of the better athletes in the 2024 elite division. I also know some late summer 2005 kids that frankly aren't that good. I think it is unfair to say that a late summer 2005 kid is better just because he may be slightly older. Most of the summer 2005 kids that I know didn't start playing club lacrosse until around the third grade. I happen to have a kid that has a late summer birthday (he missed the 9/1 cutoff by a couple of weeks). When he started playing lacrosse, he only played rec and he was the youngest kid on the field. He was constantly playing kids that were 1-2 years older than he was. When he got run over by older kids, it just made him tougher and practice that much harder. Even when he started playing club, it was still age based. So again he was playing kids that were 1-2 years older. But now they weren't just older, they were skilled too. Have you ever considered that some of the late summer 2005 kids that play 2024 are not better just because they may be older? Maybe they are better because of all those years they spent playing older kids before they eventually ended up on a grade based team? As I have posted before, if Long Island kids are having to play kids that are older than they are, they will get the last laugh come high school when everything levels out. So rather than hating the "holdbacks," just enjoy the ride and be thankful that your kid is getting better from having to play older kids! Team rankings should mean nothing at this age. It should be about having fun and getting better before high school.



Just for the record, no one is hating holdbacks. The really annoying Madlax parent, who posts like a kid, but I'm sure is an adult... him, we hate.

That guys has been on the LI thread for several years with the same juvenile posts that he has just started putting on here... "we are Madlax, we are the best, blah, blah, blah"... really annoying stuff, every single day... for y-e-a-r-s. It's particularly annoying when Madlax is SECRETLY a year older than our kids, and still intensifies the trash talk (and mostly losing), as though their kids are all on age. Apparently the child-like adult doesn't like playing second fiddle to the younger LI teams.

So when you hear the hate form LI, it's towards that one guy. The rest of you folks, we like, a lot. I've never seen any posts from any MD parent that resemble the Madlax parents posts. You people are class acts, all the way around.

The holdback problem is really not a big deal for us, since there really aren't many on LI. If we go to MD and lose, no biggie... our boys are playing up. You MD folks are the ones that are getting hurt by it, not us. My only purpose is to let you know that this holdback issue is so out of control (you already know that) and in the end, it is probably hurting your region more than you know. I've got several kids, of a wide range of ages, so I've been doing this a very long time. And, as a former player, like many of you, with a real passion for the game, I care deeply for the sport and it's continued growth. Holdbacks are absolutely not in the best interest of the sport. Club's think it is in their best "business interest", but they are taking a very short term view of their strategy, and not anticipating the long term consequences, of which there are many. Sounds like another topic??



Cool. My son is friends with a lot of the LI kids. No reason the parents shouldn't be too. It is a small community.

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Quick question on "the facts". Honestly I am not trying to be difficult here but we have a lot of 15yo vs 12yo which seems pretty disingenuous to me. The cutoff date for age based is 9/1/2005. This means on average by the beginning of March the average age of 2024 kids is 13, not 12. Of course if your team has more summer 2006 birthdays the average will be 12+, but in that case even an "on age" team could be 6-9 months older if it had more fall birthdays. Most of the MD "holdbacks" I have encountered have summer 2005 birthdays, the reasons for this have been talked about a fair amount (private vs. public focus, etc.). So let's assume every kid on a team was born in June 2005 (which is a stretch as I know for a "fact" that the teams talked about here have "on age" players because it wasn't that long ago MD was age based as well) then by March, on average, the difference would be 9 months as opposed to the "cited facts" of 1 to 2 years. Of course talking in averages does not take into account individuals which can vary but since none of the LI or MD clubs post birth dates or birth certificates no one here really knows exact age or birthday. We can make some assumptions pre/post 9/1.

To your questions about how good MD teams are and why they are not "as good as they should be" since they are 1/2 years older is perhaps because they are actually closer in age than you make it out to be. I am not saying a 9 month age difference (which I think is a high end estimate) is not an advantage but it is a whole lot different than saying a 1 to 2 year difference and it is an age gap that can occur even in age based systems.

Let me know if I am doing the math wrong here.

I am a MD parent of an on age 2024 who believes that age based is the way to go in youth (pre high school) sports.


The first issue is if you stack a team full of summer birthdays or even earlier and have them play a diverse team of different ages. This is the first issue with the HoCo elite divisions. The better teams are completely stacked with this type of roster. There's a reason why they are "better" and it's not due to coaching.


If you are a 2024 parent who pays attention and your club is competitive, here's a better breakdown. There are approximately 21 players on a team, some more and some less but this is about right. At least a third of those kids will be older than the 9/1 guideline; about 10 will be born between September and December; and there might be 4-5 kids born after January. In the elite division, the numbers will skew even older.


The problem lies in those 7 and more like 14 for the elite division teams where their ages vary from a couple of months before up to 18 months before. Yes - 18 months before the 9/1 guideline.

Here's how it happens. You take a delayed entry child who is born in March (and I believe this is too old to play in class divisions) and then that kid re-classes. Now you have a 15 year old playing 7th grade lacrosse. I don't know about 7th grade HoCo but I know most 8th grade teams in the elite division have at least 1 and 1 team has 3. Yes - 3 young men who are 16 years old playing in an 8th grade division.

The age difference in teams for a class based league is way out of balance.




On Long Island, birthdays after 9/1 and before 12/31 are considered holdbacks, since they could/should be playing in the grade above, although that is a call that each parent must make at time of Kindergarten. Not sure if MD considers them holdbacks, but by definition, they are. The parents chooses (they have the option) to "hold them back".

Based on that and your comments above, the average MD "competitive" team is 70% holdbacks ("4 to 5 on age players"), and teams in "elite divisions, the numbers will skew even older."

So the MD teams that the LI teams play, have 2 - 3 on age players, who in all likelihood never see the field, against LI teams. Therefore, MD teams (that play LI teams) are 100% holdback teams. Said another way, they are 2023-age teams, playing down against 2024 LI on-age teams.

Thank you for confirming... that's exactly what I have known all along. There are no 2024-age players playing in the 2024 grade, in MD lacrosse. That's crazy-town. It makes absolutely no sense. It's amazing what profit and greed can do to a kids game. I wish you MD non-holdback parents, the best. You and your kids don't deserve this, and this is not what's best for the sport. Good luck.










The leagues in MD are set up based on grade, end of story. I suppose it's the club owners directing the HoCo league officials. Regardless, if you are in 7th grade you play 2024, and there are tons of kids in the 7th grade with birthdays between 9/1 and 12/31, and yes kids with birthdays of 1/1 to 8/31. Unless they change it, that's the way it works in MD. Stay on the island if you dont like it, or write your congressional representatives. Believe it or not, the double hold back is extremely rare and really doesn't happen until kids start their 9th grade year. An extremely small number of kids (1, maybe 2 in the grade year), likely the smaller ones, choose to switch private schools and repeat 8th grade. Your imaginations have you believing its systemic. It isn't, as kids don't want the spotlight from it.


You’re talking to the wrong guy. Your holdbacks aren’t LI’s problem. They are the problem of the MD parents with 2024 kids, who are actually of 2024 age. Obviously that statement doesn’t apply to you. And, I believe that I said there aren’t many double holdbacks, yet. But how many 15 year olds does a 2024 team need, exactly? Just one “man”, with some skills, is a big time game changer. One 6’1” 175 lb 15 year old can make an average team, a contender. Hey, not my problem. I barely have to deal with it, unlike all of the MD parents, who have to deal with cheaters like yourself for another 5 years. And, based on their posts, they aren’t too happy about you giving your kid an unfair advantage over there boys. I don’t blame them.

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The leagues in MD are set up based on grade, end of story. I suppose it's the club owners directing the HoCo league officials. Regardless, if you are in 7th grade you play 2024, and there are tons of kids in the 7th grade with birthdays between 9/1 and 12/31, and yes kids with birthdays of 1/1 to 8/31. Unless they change it, that's the way it works in MD. Stay on the island if you dont like it, or write your congressional representatives. Believe it or not, the double hold back is extremely rare and really doesn't happen until kids start their 9th grade year. An extremely small number of kids (1, maybe 2 in the grade year), likely the smaller ones, choose to switch private schools and repeat 8th grade. Your imaginations have you believing its systemic. It isn't, as kids don't want the spotlight from it.


So you don't think there should be an upper limit on age? It's okay for kids to be born up to 21 months before others in what is supposed to be a year-by-year designation! What about the kids born the year before from 9/1 - 12/31. What about the rare exception, MadLax 2023 has 3 and most of the other elite teams have 1-2, of a kid born before 3/1 and then repeats a grade.

It's not systemic but it's there.

Should there be an upper age limit on class based leagues?
What date should it be?

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Quick question on "the facts". Honestly I am not trying to be difficult here but we have a lot of 15yo vs 12yo which seems pretty disingenuous to me. The cutoff date for age based is 9/1/2005. This means on average by the beginning of March the average age of 2024 kids is 13, not 12. Of course if your team has more summer 2006 birthdays the average will be 12+, but in that case even an "on age" team could be 6-9 months older if it had more fall birthdays. Most of the MD "holdbacks" I have encountered have summer 2005 birthdays, the reasons for this have been talked about a fair amount (private vs. public focus, etc.). So let's assume every kid on a team was born in June 2005 (which is a stretch as I know for a "fact" that the teams talked about here have "on age" players because it wasn't that long ago MD was age based as well) then by March, on average, the difference would be 9 months as opposed to the "cited facts" of 1 to 2 years. Of course talking in averages does not take into account individuals which can vary but since none of the LI or MD clubs post birth dates or birth certificates no one here really knows exact age or birthday. We can make some assumptions pre/post 9/1.

To your questions about how good MD teams are and why they are not "as good as they should be" since they are 1/2 years older is perhaps because they are actually closer in age than you make it out to be. I am not saying a 9 month age difference (which I think is a high end estimate) is not an advantage but it is a whole lot different than saying a 1 to 2 year difference and it is an age gap that can occur even in age based systems.

Let me know if I am doing the math wrong here.

I am a MD parent of an on age 2024 who believes that age based is the way to go in youth (pre high school) sports.


The first issue is if you stack a team full of summer birthdays or even earlier and have them play a diverse team of different ages. This is the first issue with the HoCo elite divisions. The better teams are completely stacked with this type of roster. There's a reason why they are "better" and it's not due to coaching.


If you are a 2024 parent who pays attention and your club is competitive, here's a better breakdown. There are approximately 21 players on a team, some more and some less but this is about right. At least a third of those kids will be older than the 9/1 guideline; about 10 will be born between September and December; and there might be 4-5 kids born after January. In the elite division, the numbers will skew even older.


The problem lies in those 7 and more like 14 for the elite division teams where their ages vary from a couple of months before up to 18 months before. Yes - 18 months before the 9/1 guideline.

Here's how it happens. You take a delayed entry child who is born in March (and I believe this is too old to play in class divisions) and then that kid re-classes. Now you have a 15 year old playing 7th grade lacrosse. I don't know about 7th grade HoCo but I know most 8th grade teams in the elite division have at least 1 and 1 team has 3. Yes - 3 young men who are 16 years old playing in an 8th grade division.

The age difference in teams for a class based league is way out of balance.




On Long Island, birthdays after 9/1 and before 12/31 are considered holdbacks, since they could/should be playing in the grade above, although that is a call that each parent must make at time of Kindergarten. Not sure if MD considers them holdbacks, but by definition, they are. The parents chooses (they have the option) to "hold them back".

Based on that and your comments above, the average MD "competitive" team is 70% holdbacks ("4 to 5 on age players"), and teams in "elite divisions, the numbers will skew even older."

So the MD teams that the LI teams play, have 2 - 3 on age players, who in all likelihood never see the field, against LI teams. Therefore, MD teams (that play LI teams) are 100% holdback teams. Said another way, they are 2023-age teams, playing down against 2024 LI on-age teams.

Thank you for confirming... that's exactly what I have known all along. There are no 2024-age players playing in the 2024 grade, in MD lacrosse. That's crazy-town. It makes absolutely no sense. It's amazing what profit and greed can do to a kids game. I wish you MD non-holdback parents, the best. You and your kids don't deserve this, and this is not what's best for the sport. Good luck.











That final statement is just not true as my son plays in the HOCO elite division and has a post 9/1 birthday (12 on 9/1) as do many of his teammates. Once again a lot of these kids were playing together during the age based years so they did not all magically become hold backs when they changed to grade. My point here is unless you have seen the birth certificate no one here really knows actual ages.

Not being difficult again but I really don't understand calling kids who meet the age requirement "holdbacks" as well. I don't understand how you slot your kids into school on LI but there are plenty of on age kids with fall birthdays who have never been "held back" so saying by definition if you have an on age kid but a fall birthday you are a hold back is odd at best.

Also, assuming any kid who was playing on age in 2023 and is now playing 2024 is a double hold back is not correct. As I said in a previous post the vast majority of kids I know with pre 9/1 birthdays were born in Jul-Aug of 2005 which means they may have been playing up in a grade based world and are now playing on grade or they were "held back". Either way making the leap to the double hold back once again is an assumption that I have not seen in reality.

Couple final things, I admittedly know nothing about the ages of 2023s or 2025s. I also fully agree it should be age based as that is what is best for the kids and the sport.

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The leagues in MD are set up based on grade, end of story. I suppose it's the club owners directing the HoCo league officials. Regardless, if you are in 7th grade you play 2024, and there are tons of kids in the 7th grade with birthdays between 9/1 and 12/31, and yes kids with birthdays of 1/1 to 8/31. Unless they change it, that's the way it works in MD. Stay on the island if you dont like it, or write your congressional representatives. Believe it or not, the double hold back is extremely rare and really doesn't happen until kids start their 9th grade year. An extremely small number of kids (1, maybe 2 in the grade year), likely the smaller ones, choose to switch private schools and repeat 8th grade. Your imaginations have you believing its systemic. It isn't, as kids don't want the spotlight from it.


So you don't think there should be an upper limit on age? It's okay for kids to be born up to 21 months before others in what is supposed to be a year-by-year designation! What about the kids born the year before from 9/1 - 12/31. What about the rare exception, MadLax 2023 has 3 and most of the other elite teams have 1-2, of a kid born before 3/1 and then repeats a grade.

It's not systemic but it's there.

Should there be an upper age limit on class based leagues?
What date should it be?

https://www.uslacrosse.org/sites/default/files/public/documents/rules/age-group-chart-18-19.pdf

This would give a good starting point. Elite division could opt to follow 15U guidelines however I know they would be crazy to follow 16U but it would make it interesting even though in the past 15U would always be considered HS it at least puts it out in the open and provides choice. It can end the debate.
This way a club in the AA division may choose to stay and help to get more players if they stay 14U

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The leagues in MD are set up based on grade, end of story. I suppose it's the club owners directing the HoCo league officials. Regardless, if you are in 7th grade you play 2024, and there are tons of kids in the 7th grade with birthdays between 9/1 and 12/31, and yes kids with birthdays of 1/1 to 8/31. Unless they change it, that's the way it works in MD. Stay on the island if you dont like it, or write your congressional representatives. Believe it or not, the double hold back is extremely rare and really doesn't happen until kids start their 9th grade year. An extremely small number of kids (1, maybe 2 in the grade year), likely the smaller ones, choose to switch private schools and repeat 8th grade. Your imaginations have you believing its systemic. It isn't, as kids don't want the spotlight from it.


So you don't think there should be an upper limit on age? It's okay for kids to be born up to 21 months before others in what is supposed to be a year-by-year designation! What about the kids born the year before from 9/1 - 12/31. What about the rare exception, MadLax 2023 has 3 and most of the other elite teams have 1-2, of a kid born before 3/1 and then repeats a grade.

It's not systemic but it's there.

Should there be an upper age limit on class based leagues?
What date should it be?

There is, it's 19 your senior year.

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It's 19 only for a senior entering that year. HoCo currently has no upper age limit for the league. That future age restriction has no bearing on the 15 year olds in 7th grade (very few) and 16 year old 8th graders (a few more) who will be playing this spring.

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Any scores from Delaware Tournament today, I forgot my checkbook and couldn't afford parking so had to head back home.

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I only know a few, Hawks green team 10-1 over Cherries, Sidewinders over Cherries 6-2 and Hawks black beat Cherries 7-2. Hawks black also beat Tribal SJ 8-2. Sorry, I don't know more but they are the only games I watched. The $10.50 parking was a bit crazy.

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I heard the schedule was out for the east qualifier from the WSYL but when I looked at it think someone confused it with a low level aloha type summer slam tournament.
https://worldseriesofyouthlacrosse.com/qualifiers/east-regional-qualifier/schedule-and-standings/

I think many clubs would not think this was a half decent summer event.

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The holdback conversation between the LI parents and the MD parents does make my head swim. In Maryland the age cut-off line for starting kindergarten is 5 on September 1. Boys born between 9/1/2005 and 12/31/2005 are NOT 2024 holdbacks, they are classed correctly according to school enrollment laws for the state of Maryland.

The September 1st cut off date is also consistent with the age-based rules from US Lacrosse and WYSL (see above links).

So... if NY/LI has a cut off later in the year (12/1 or 1/1) that will not and should not influence how MD teams are form.

The class vs age-based debate will always be heated, but please get your facts right.

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I heard the schedule was out for the east qualifier from the WSYL but when I looked at it think someone confused it with a low level aloha type summer slam tournament.
https://worldseriesofyouthlacrosse.com/qualifiers/east-regional-qualifier/schedule-and-standings/

I think many clubs would not think this was a half decent summer event.



I think many clubs would not qualify due to the age restritions

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if more than 2 or 3 key players on 2024 teams do not meet age restrictions teams probably not playing. is eye opening in a sense.

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I heard the schedule was out for the east qualifier from the WSYL but when I looked at it think someone confused it with a low level aloha type summer slam tournament.
https://worldseriesofyouthlacrosse.com/qualifiers/east-regional-qualifier/schedule-and-standings/

I think many clubs would not think this was a half decent summer event.



I think many clubs would not qualify due to the age restritions


The "elite" division hoco mid-atlantic teams definitely don't have enough players for the age standards. If they promoted a bunch of 25's to the WSYL roster it would expose just how many players on their rosters are born before the 9/1 date.

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if more than 2 or 3 key players on 2024 teams do not meet age restrictions teams probably not playing. is eye opening in a sense.


2 or 3 in the elite division. You aren't paying attention. Kids don't magically get to be that big in those geographic areas where the clubs are based by coincidence.

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Question to the MD HoCo elite division holdback parents.

What does it feel like when your sons “elite” team of cheaters loses to my sons LI team which is a year (or more) younger than your kids sorry team of cheaters.

Mad? Sad? Ashamed? Guilt? Embarrassed? Jealous?

Or all of the above?

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Question to the MD HoCo elite division holdback parents.

What does it feel like when your sons “elite” team of cheaters loses to my sons LI team which is a year (or more) younger than your kids sorry team of cheaters.

Mad? Sad? Ashamed? Guilt? Embarrassed? Jealous?

Or all of the above?


Just keep telling yourself and junior whatever you think is best. Good luck in Denver AND at UMass in July.

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Question to the MD HoCo elite division holdback parents.

What does it feel like when your sons “elite” team of cheaters loses to my sons LI team which is a year (or more) younger than your kids sorry team of cheaters.

Mad? Sad? Ashamed? Guilt? Embarrassed? Jealous?

Or all of the above?


Just keep telling yourself and junior whatever you think is best. Good luck in Denver AND at UMass in July.


Is that you Madlax holdback daddy? So why do you think all of the MD cheater teams are so, sooo bad, that they have to play down a year just to be able to compete with the far superior LI teams? Bad coaching? Bad players? Bad parents? Bad clubs? Maybe it just goes back to the age old truth... “cheaters never prosper”. Or maybe... “what goes around, comes around”.

And since there is no older team than Madlax anywhere, obviously this applies more to your kids sleezey team than anyone else’s. So thought you might have some insights for us.

Re: Boys 2024-7th Grade Fall 2018/Summer 2019
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Originally Posted by Anonymous

Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Question to the MD HoCo elite division holdback parents.

What does it feel like when your sons “elite” team of cheaters loses to my sons LI team which is a year (or more) younger than your kids sorry team of cheaters.

Mad? Sad? Ashamed? Guilt? Embarrassed? Jealous?

Or all of the above?


Just keep telling yourself and junior whatever you think is best. Good luck in Denver AND at UMass in July.


Is that you Madlax holdback daddy? So why do you think all of the MD cheater teams are so, sooo bad, that they have to play down a year just to be able to compete with the far superior LI teams? Bad coaching? Bad players? Bad parents? Bad clubs? Maybe it just goes back to the age old truth... “cheaters never prosper”. Or maybe... “what goes around, comes around”.

And since there is no older team than Madlax anywhere, obviously this applies more to your kids sleezey team than anyone else’s. So thought you might have some insights for us.



This post is almost to dumb to comment on but here it goes.

First, in case you haven't heard MD plays in a grade based system (notIntelligent, I agree but it is what it is). I am not aware of anyone playing on a team below their grade so the continuous calling of teams "cheaters" is wrong. Debate the merits of age vs. grade based all you want, but when someone follows the rules their league/tournament plays under it is not cheating.

Second, the good old "no older team than Madlax". You have no idea the ages of the kids on the Madlax, or any other team. I am very aware that there are a fair number of "on age" kids on Madlax and the vast majority of "holdbacks" are mid/late summer birthdays (in other words 1 to 2 months off age) but keep spouting "fake news" about how the poor little LI kids are all a year+ younger if it makes you feel better, no one in MD cares and you are simply wrong, that is a fact.

Third, "so, sooo bad". Such a notIntelligent comment hard to even respond but the reality is that a good number of these kids will go on to play at some of the top high school programs in the country and then go on to top colleges. If this is your definition of so bad then we will take being bad. Feel free to take a look at the UA Top 25, 7 teams in the top 25 are fed by HoCo elite (4 LI teams in the top 10 vs. 3 HoCo). Then take a look at the top ranked recruits and where they are from.

Fourth, if this is such a major issue for the LI teams then here is an idea, don't play in grade based tournaments. If LI lacrosse is "far suprior" as you say then stay on the island, hit the road for the WSYL, proclaim yourself the masters of the 2024 age group and enjoy yourself. If the best lacrosse is on LI then stay there and compete against the best. The constant complaining and moaning has become pathetic but is actually pretty smart. You have created a win-win for yourself. If you lose to a MD team then it is because every kid on the team is 1+ years older, if you win then you can continue to believe in the superiority of LI lacrosse since you beat a team in your mind that is "playing down".

I will simply end this with a quote from Col. Nathan R. Jessep: "Either way, I don't give a darn, what you think you are entitled to!"

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So.... HoCo scores from this weekend??

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Originally Posted by JenPea78
So.... HoCo scores from this weekend??


Leave it to a woman to move on from the crap above and get down to business.

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Originally Posted by JenPea78
So.... HoCo scores from this weekend??



Standings posted here, since only one game you can tell the scores.

https://www.eteamz.com/hcrpsports/standings/index.cfm?subsite=6171250

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Thanks! I know how my kid’s team did but they normally aren’t so quick to update... on to week 2

And yes .... do we really need to go over the holdback thing ALL the time... accept and move on or play another sport... (mom of a 12, 13 this week 2024)

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by JenPea78
So.... HoCo scores from this weekend??



Standings posted here, since only one game you can tell the scores.

https://www.eteamz.com/hcrpsports/standings/index.cfm?subsite=6171250

Who won between Madlax and Bethesda? It's not showing.

Re: Boys 2024-7th Grade Fall 2018/Summer 2019
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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by JenPea78
So.... HoCo scores from this weekend??



Standings posted here, since only one game you can tell the scores.

https://www.eteamz.com/hcrpsports/standings/index.cfm?subsite=6171250

Who won between Madlax and Bethesda? It's not showing.


They did not play because of Spring Breaks. Will be made up at a later time.

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How many on age players play in the HoCo league of cheaters? Obviously less than 15 total, or one of the cheater clubs would be sending a team to the WORLD SERIES OF YOUTH LACROSSE to compete for the world championship of 13 year old lacrosse (sorry, no 14 and 15 year olds allowed, cheater teams)!

But you guys keep stockpiling your 14 and 15 year olds, just to have a “chance” at beating 13 year olds from LI, in some meaningless 7th grade tournament, that everyone forgets about on the ride home. Sorry. I don’t mean to belittle your games with LI teams because I’m sure it’s like the super bowl to your boys. But to us it’s [ChillLaxin] hum. Nobody cares. Especially when our boys will be playing for a TRUE WORLD CHAMPIONSHIP!

I know. Compared to that, your boys have nothing to look forward to this summer, except maybe getting their drivers liscence.

Have fun in your little HoCo play dates.

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
How many on age players play in the HoCo league of cheaters? Obviously less than 15 total, or one of the cheater clubs would be sending a team to the WORLD SERIES OF YOUTH LACROSSE to compete for the world championship of 13 year old lacrosse (sorry, no 14 and 15 year olds allowed, cheater teams)!

But you guys keep stockpiling your 14 and 15 year olds, just to have a “chance” at beating 13 year olds from LI, in some meaningless 7th grade tournament, that everyone forgets about on the ride home. Sorry. I don’t mean to belittle your games with LI teams because I’m sure it’s like the super bowl to your boys. But to us it’s [ChillLaxin] hum. Nobody cares. Especially when our boys will be playing for a TRUE WORLD CHAMPIONSHIP!

I know. Compared to that, your boys have nothing to look forward to this summer, except maybe getting their drivers liscence.

Have fun in your little HoCo play dates.



Get some professional help. Seriously.


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